← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · weisbrot
Thread ID: 20558 | Posts: 13 | Started: 2005-10-07
2005-10-07 15:38 | User Profile
[I]There are already denials being floated by the White House. Too bad they can't erase the "Operation Enduring Crusade" name Bush approved before attacking Afghanistan and invading Iraq.[/I]
[url]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/10/07/MNGNVF3SFM1.DTL[/url]
Bush said God told him to invade Iraq, Arab leaders say Palestinian officials confirm comments from documentary Matthew Kalman, Chronicle Foreign Service
Friday, October 7, 2005
Printable Version Email This Article
Jerusalem -- President Bush told two high-ranking Palestinian officials that he had been told by God to invade Afghanistan and Iraq and then create a Palestinian state to bring peace to the Middle East, they recall during a documentary on Middle East peace that airs next week in Britain.
"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God,' " said Nabil Shaath, who was the Palestinian foreign minister at the time of a top-level meeting with Bush in June 2003. Mahmoud Abbas, then Palestinian prime minister and now the Palestinian Authority president, was also present for the conversation with Bush.
"God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq ...' And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.' And by God I'm gonna do it," Shaath quotes the president as saying in the three-part series.
Shaath, who is now Palestinian minister of information, said he was encouraged, not dismayed, by the president's comments.
"President Bush was saying that, 'Having been imbued with a message of God to free the people of Afghanistan and then Iraq, I have a calling now to give the Palestinians a state of their own and their freedom, to give Israel security and bring peace to the Middle East,' " Shaath told The Chronicle, confirming the accuracy of the BBC report.
But Shaath said the Palestinians at the meeting did not think the president was suggesting that God actually spoke to him. "I think it's a manner of speech," Shaath said. "I don't think he meant an actual call from God. He was talking about a commitment. The man wasn't saying there was an angel hovering over his head talking to him.
"We took it as a commitment of the highest level by Mr. Bush to really invest his effort and his determination to get an independent Palestinian state. We welcome this commitment by the president and hope he will fulfill it."
It wasn't the first time Bush used the symbolism of his Christian beliefs to describe the U.S. role on the international stage. U.S. foreign policy is still paying for Bush's post-Sept. 11 description of the U.S. war on terror as a crusade, a term that reminded many people in the Middle East of the medieval Christian crusades in which European warriors trying to wrest Jerusalem and the Holy Land from Islamic rule killed untold thousands of Muslims.
"One of the biggest problems the Bush administration has is the translation of American Christian culture to the world, and specifically to Muslim countries," said commentator Micah D. Halpern, author of "What You Need to Know About: Terror."
"It's not that these societies are foreign to Christians, it's just that the Christianity that Bush embraces is not the Christianity that these Muslim countries see at home," Halpern said. "In that mistranslation, his message is ballooned out of proportion. One of America's biggest diplomatic mistakes is their lack of understanding of local Muslim and Arab cultures abroad. You can't just throw out the word God and assume that everyone's on the same page."
When Condoleezza Rice arrived in the West Bank last June for her first visit as secretary of state, Hamas leader Mahmoud Al-Zahar went on Palestinian television to accuse Bush of launching a wave of crusades that had already claimed the lives of 70,000 Islamic martyrs.
"This is a new ... war of crusades that Bush is leading," said Al-Zahar, interspersing the English word crusade with the Arabic equivalent "hamla salibiyya." In 2001, Pentagon officials junked the name "Operation Infinite Justice" for the war on terror after realizing it could upset Muslims' belief that only God can dispense "infinite justice."
Although U.S. officials have tried to play down the war on terror as a clash of civilizations or a war of Christians against Muslims, the imagery of the United States as the reincarnation of those medieval warriors has taken hold.
Osama bin Laden's videotaped speeches are laced with references to crusaders and infidels, designed to stoke religious sensitivities.
Sheikh Dr. Ahmad Abd Al-Latif, a professor at Um Al-Qura University in Saudi Arabia, told viewers on Saudi Channel TV1 last year that the U.S.-led wars to oust the leasers of Afghanistan and Iraq was evidence of the Christians' "cruel aggression against Islamic countries."
"This is a crusading war whose goal is to harm Muslims," he said.
2005-10-07 15:49 | User Profile
Weisbrot,
I'm curious to why this story is coming out now. Some of us have known about it over the last 18 months.
2005-10-07 16:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE]"God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq ...' And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.' And by God I'm gonna do it," Shaath quotes the president as saying in the three-part series...........
.....But Shaath said the Palestinians at the meeting did not think the president was suggesting that God actually spoke to him. "I think it's a manner of speech," Shaath said. "I don't think he meant an actual call from God. He was talking about a commitment. The man wasn't saying there was an angel hovering over his head talking to him. [/QUOTE]
Oh, silly Mr. Shaath, ha, ha, ha! I'm sorry us Americans didn't explain sooner, ha, ha, ha, I'm so sorry for the confusion and let me give you an simple explanation!! Oh, golly!
Our Dear George appears to be confusing "God" with "AIPAC" again!! But, but, but, I think a 3 sq mile Palestinian state is still one of Our George's deepest desires. Thank you Mr Shaath for keeping this under wraps. We'll warn you when AIPAC, Oh, shoot there I go again myself, I meant GOD, tells George to atomize Syria and Iran so as to give you time to prepare.
2005-10-07 16:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Weisbrot,
I'm curious to why this story is coming out now. Some of us have known about it over the last 18 months.[/QUOTE]
Ostensibly has to do with the release of the three-part BBC documentary on peace efforts in the Middle East. Strategical reasons include the fact that it's a no-lose proposition: Bush's fundie base actually approves of this reasoning, and the Israelis/Likudniks are comforted knowing they have another crazed religious fanatic (who controls nukes) on their payroll. Bush's numbers are heading south; watch how they now rebound among the Robinson/Dobson crowd.
[img]http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2005/10/06/bush372ready.jpg[/IMG]
2005-10-07 18:44 | User Profile
Thanks.
Here's another take: [url]http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5044319.html[/url]
2005-10-07 18:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]Oh, silly Mr. Shaath, ha, ha, ha! I'm sorry us Americans didn't explain sooner, ha, ha, ha, I'm so sorry for the confusion and let me give you an simple explanation!! Oh, golly!
Our Dear George appears to be confusing "God" with "AIPAC" again!! But, but, but, I think a 3 sq mile Palestinian state is still one of Our George's deepest desires. Thank you Mr Shaath for keeping this under wraps. We'll warn you when AIPAC, Oh, shoot there I go again myself, I meant GOD, tells George to atomize Syria and Iran so as to give you time to prepare.[/QUOTE]
LMAO! that's funny stuff
2005-10-07 23:53 | User Profile
God told me that Prezzinit Bush is an idiot.
2005-10-07 23:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=weisbrot]
[img]http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2005/10/06/bush372ready.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] His halo is slipping down around his neck.
2005-10-08 09:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=RowdyRoddyPiper]His halo is slipping down around his neck.[/QUOTE]
That's not a halo... that's a foreskin
2005-10-08 12:56 | User Profile
Bush God comments 'not literal'
[img]http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40882000/jpg/_40882958_bush203.jpg[/img]
[SIZE=5]President Bush speaks to the people at OD board. This is a direct quote from the president... " You saps will believe anything." :smile: [/SIZE]
A Palestinian official who said the US president had claimed God told him to invade Iraq and Afghanistan says he did not take George Bush's words literally. Nabil Shaath said he and other world leaders at a Jordan summit two years ago did not believe Mr Bush thought God had given him a personal message.
Mr Bush's spokesman said the original allegation, which will appear in a BBC documentary next week, was absurd.
**Scott McClellan said the comments had never been made. **
The comments were attributed to Mr Bush by Mr Shaath, a Palestinian negotiator, in the upcoming TV series Elusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs.
Mr Shaath said that in a 2003 meeting with Mr Bush, the US president said he was "driven with a mission from God".
"God would tell me, George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan. And I did, and then God would tell me, George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq... And I did.
"And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East. And by God I'm gonna do it."
**Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas, who attended the meeting in June 2003 too, also appears on the documentary series to recount how Mr Bush told him: "I have a moral and religious obligation. So I will get you a Palestinian state." **
'Strong faith'
But in an interview for the BBC Arabic service on Friday, he said the president - who had just announced an end to hostilities in Iraq, was merely expressing his heartfelt commitment to peace in the Middle East.
"President Bush said that God guided him in what he should do, and this guidance led him to go to Afghanistan to rid it of terrorism after 9/11 and led him to Iraq to fight tyranny," he said.
"We understood that he was illustrating [in his comments] his strong faith and his belief that this is what God wanted."
The TV series charts recent attempts to bring peace to the Middle East, from former US President Bill Clinton's peace talks in 1999-2000 to Israel's withdrawal from the Gaza Strip this year.
It seeks to uncover what happened behind closed doors by speaking to presidents and prime ministers, along with their generals and ministers.
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4320586.stm[/url]
2005-10-08 13:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE]A Palestinian official who said the US president had claimed God told him to invade Iraq and Afghanistan says he did not take George Bush's words literally.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter whether this person takes him literally or not. Does Bush actually believe this nonsense, or is it nothing more than a cynical exercise to stir up the snake handling contingent?
2005-10-10 20:16 | User Profile
While Enduring Crusade is the sort of stupidity Rummy, Cheney, and Bush would come up with for their embarassingly bad PR campaign, I am not inclinded to believe anything that comes from an Arab's mouth. Their predilection for lying is part of their common cultural assumption. Put in OD terms, I suppose one could call that propensity a generic Semitic cultural feature. The Nordic/Germanic/Celtic premise that a man's word is his bond (a comon cultural norm in pre literate societies) seems to me to have been ignored for far too long.
AE
[QUOTE=Sertorius]It doesn't matter whether this person takes him literally or not. Does Bush actually believe this nonsense, or is it nothing more than a cynical exercise to stir up the snake handling contingent?[/QUOTE]
2005-10-10 23:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=londo] That's not a halo... that's a foreskin[/QUOTE] At least he's got one, I suppose.