← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Faust
Thread ID: 20119 | Posts: 16 | Started: 2005-09-10
2005-09-10 09:57 | User Profile
Alissa Rosenbaum Neocon?
Ayn Rand [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand[/url]
The Ayn Rand Institute articles: [QUOTE]U.S. Must Stop Iran from Developing Nuclear Weapons
No Apologies for Hiroshima and Nagasaki
"Muslim Opinion" Be Damned
The Perversity of U.S. Backing for the Gaza Retreat
Israel's Deadly Appeasement Process Continues
The Foreign Policy of Guilt: Until the West asserts its moral right to exist, we will not be safe from Islamic totalitarianism.
Fight the Root of Terrorism With Bombs, Not Bread
The Terrorists' Motivation: Islam
Death to "Diplomacy" with Iran
The Ten Commandments vs. America
America's Compassion in Iraq Is Self-Destructive
American Appeasement in Iraq
U.S. Should Withdraw from the Geneva Convention
We Salute Our Vets
The West's Moral Treason Is Responsible for Arafat's Undeserved Praise
[url]http://www.aynrand.org/[/url] [/QUOTE]
2005-09-10 10:00 | User Profile
If not technically, for our purposes, it's a distinction without a difference.
2005-09-10 10:45 | User Profile
I am not very familiar with Ayn Rand's writings. I've only read her novella Anthem and a few articles about her philosophy. But my understanding is that she was very anti-communist as a result of her upbringing. Perhaps the "Ayn Rand Institute" has merely coopted her name and perverted her beliefs? The titles of those articles reveal a very un-libertarian mindset, and Rand was basically a libertarian.
2005-09-10 14:17 | User Profile
Ayn Rand was one of the "great thinkers" of Libertarianism. She was sort of the alter ego of Karl Marx. But don't think for a minute that either of these two Jews were loyal to the ideologies they espoused or opposed to other extreme ideologies, they are just herders in the war of ideas.
We are in the middle, the herders are on the perimeter....playing all sides...even defining all sides.....but playing them against each other. The herders on opposide sides of the herd are not opposed to each other...of course not!
Just think of the relationship between cowboys and cattle....this will give you some insight into the relationship between Jews and Gentiles.
2005-09-10 15:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=travis]Ayn Rand was one of the "great thinkers" of Libertarianism. She was sort of the alter ego of Karl Marx. But don't think for a minute that either of these two Jews were loyal to the ideologies they espoused or opposed to other extreme ideologies, they are just herders in the war of ideas.
We are in the middle, the herders are on the perimeter....playing all sides...even defining all sides.....but playing them against each other. The herders on opposide sides of the herd are not opposed to each other...of course not!
Just think of the relationship between cowboys and cattle....this will give you some insight into the relationship between Jews and Gentiles.[/QUOTE] Your illustration evokes yet another way to look at the old saw
"The most dangerous thing in the world is an idea." :yes:
AE
2005-09-10 16:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angler]I am not very familiar with Ayn Rand's writings. I've only read her novella Anthem and a few articles about her philosophy. But my understanding is that she was very anti-communist as a result of her upbringing. Perhaps the "Ayn Rand Institute" has merely coopted her name and perverted her beliefs? The titles of those articles reveal a very un-libertarian mindset, and Rand was basically a libertarian.[/QUOTE] Alyssa Rosenbaum has already been dissected on this forum many times. Have you slept through that? :shocking:
An ideology isn't complete without its context: who, what, where and against whom and what. If viewed as a mere tool, it's far from being absolute, but more a weapon of its time, to be discarded in favor of another one more suitable for the changed conditions.
2005-09-10 17:12 | User Profile
A lot of crazy philosophies-cum-religions were launched in the West post-WW2. I don't really see any reason why Rand's "objectivism" is considered sane and serious while Hubbard's "scientology" is thought of as looney-tunes.
Coincidentally, the film running before the Nazi TITANIC last night was none other than THE FOUNTAINHEAD, scripted by Rand herself (a script over which she demaded, and got, total control). I skipped it, having seen it years ago, but I doubt that time has made it any less ridculous. While it was less painfully boring than the novel, it was every bit as crazy - a manifesto for training the elite members of society to live without any semblance of a conscience.
Unfortunately, like scientology and other wacko philosophy-religions, objectivism has earned quite a following: basically, it's Introduction to Fuhrer Principle 101 for Jews and crypto-Jews who aren't comfortable wearing brown shirts and swastikas.
2005-09-10 18:15 | User Profile
il ragno,
I have never read the book or seen the film. But from this article "The Fountainhead" sound ridculous.
The Fountainhead [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fountainhead[/url]
[QUOTE] All of these movements ultimately turned out to be nonsense, but they were supported with a seemingly impressive array of scholarship and attracted smart people drawn to complex, trendy theories. To be more specific, these movements were ideologically rigid, based on specious scholarship and founded by charismatic Jewish leaders who didn't tolerate dissent. The Freudians all sounded alike; the Marxists all sounded alike; and the Boasian Anthropologists all sounded alike. Jewess Ayn Rand's followers formed another movement that repeated this pattern. You were not an Objectivist unless you agreed with Rand. At times, these movements appeared more cultlike than scholarly. Real scholars invite peer review; they invite constructive criticism of their ideas. An intellectual movement founded by Jews that sports a rigid ideology, obtuse and dishonest scholarship, and makes no room for dissent is the pattern you should watch for. It repeats itself over and over with Jewish intellectual movements and their gurus. This applies even with their second-rate gurus. Remember Hillary Clinton's guru, Michael Lerner? Remember Newt Gingrich's guru, Alvin Toffler? The neo-con movement predictably repeats this pattern. They are few and cultlike. Their ideas are derived from a tiny coterie of mostly Jewish thinkers. If you criticize them, they dismiss you as a naïve bumpkin or call you an anti-Semite.
"Deconstructing Neo-Conservatism" [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5902[/url] [/QUOTE]
Older 'Ayn Rand' thread: [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16839[/url]
2005-09-10 22:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=travis]
We are in the middle, the herders are on the perimeter....playing all sides...even defining all sides.....but playing them against each other. The herders on opposide sides of the herd are not opposed to each other...of course not!
[/QUOTE]
Similar to the conspiracy theory behind the novel and original movie "Manchurian Candidate;" that the far right is a creation of the far left.
2005-09-11 03:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=travis]Ayn Rand was one of the "great thinkers" of Libertarianism. She was sort of the alter ego of Karl Marx. But don't think for a minute that either of these two Jews were loyal to the ideologies they espoused or opposed to other extreme ideologies, they are just herders in the war of ideas.[/QUOTE]
Rand had that messianic complex common among intellectual secular Jews. Sadly, I've come to the conclusion that Murray Rothbard had it, too.
2005-09-11 03:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angler]I am not very familiar with Ayn Rand's writings. I've only read her novella Anthem and a few articles about her philosophy. But my understanding is that she was very anti-communist as a result of her upbringing. Perhaps the "Ayn Rand Institute" has merely coopted her name and perverted her beliefs? The titles of those articles reveal a very un-libertarian mindset, and Rand was basically a libertarian.[/QUOTE] Actually, she may have been a Communist agent.
Her father & family were on friendly terms with the head of the Russian secret police Yagoda ( a jew ). Miss Rosenbaum was allowed to leave the USSR to study in the USA in the late 1920's when no one else was getting out of the USSR.
FDR's national security advisor Berle was very suspicious of Ms. Rand...what better cover for an agent...
2005-09-11 07:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Alyssa Rosenbaum has already been dissected on this forum many times. Have you slept through that? :shocking:[/QUOTE]I'm sure there are a lot of threads on this board that I've overlooked, MR. I just don't have the time to read everything.
Like I said, I just don't feel that I know enough about Rand personally to have an informed opinion about her motives. What I do know is that her philosophy is almost diametrically opposed to communism -- at least in a superficial sense. If she had ulterior motives and if someone can demonstrate that, then I won't be terribly surprised.
As far as the "Ayn Rand Institute" is concerned, the titles of those articles alone are sufficient to show that they are Jewish statists/neocons in libertarians' clothing. Libertarianism is hardly a monolithic doctrine, but I'd say that foreign interventionism is fundamentally at odds with libertarianism no matter how you slice it.
In any event, Rand has never been any hero of mine. FWIW, my personal philosophy owes a great deal more to the US Founding Fathers than to Jewess Rand, though there is some overlap. For those who care, my ideal state would be based on a modified libertarianism that would provide for strong state controls on immigration and certain aspects of the economy (e.g., outsourcing would be very limited) while maximizing the individual liberties of citizens (e.g., freedom of speech, press, and religion; almost no gun control). The vast majority of citizens would be white; foreign intervention would be minimized; all citizens would receive military training, but there'd be no wars or draft unless the nation were in imminent danger; you get the idea. No need to go into details here. All in all, I'm much more a proponent of the "individual rights" aspects of libertarianism than of the economic aspects.
How much all of this overlaps with Rand's stated philosophy, I'm not too sure. But it's pretty obvious that my own version of libertarianism is directly opposed to neocon philosophy. And I'll bet there are other libertarians or quasi-libertarians here or elsewhere who have similar ideas.
2005-09-11 23:18 | User Profile
Pennsylvania_Dutch,
Very interesting. Rush is a Ayn Rand worshiper.
[QUOTE=Pennsylvania_Dutch]Actually, she may have been a Communist agent.
Her father & family were on friendly terms with the head of the Russian secret police Yagoda ( a jew ). Miss Rosenbaum was allowed to leave the USSR to study in the USA in the late 1920's when no one else was getting out of the USSR.
FDR's national security advisor Berle was very suspicious of Ms. Rand...what better cover for an agent...[/QUOTE]
2005-09-12 21:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angler]I am not very familiar with Ayn Rand's writings. I've only read her novella Anthem and a few articles about her philosophy. But my understanding is that she was very anti-communist as a result of her upbringing. Perhaps the "Ayn Rand Institute" has merely coopted her name and perverted her beliefs? The titles of those articles reveal a very un-libertarian mindset, and Rand was basically a libertarian.[/QUOTE]I am familiar with her writings, which I took far too seriously for far too long.
She preached libertarianism, but she was willing to make plenty of exceptions when it came to fighting Communism. For instance, she thought that we should never have gotten into the Vietnam War, but once we did, we had to win, because defeat would encourage the Communists. She also supported our defense treaty with Taiwan.
She only mentioned it once, as an aside, but she said Israel deserved support as well. She also said that any "free" country had a right to overthrow any dictatorship at any time.
She may or may not have supported the current war, but there are plenty of passages in her writings that her followers can use to justify it.
2005-09-12 23:03 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]Pennsylvania_Dutch,
Very interesting. Rush is a Ayn Rand worshiper.[/QUOTE] I wonder if there are any clues to her activities in the "Verona" transcripts?
There is conjecture about who is mentioned in the Verona transcripts, and who isn't. I've read thru many of 'em, and, saying who is being talked about is anyones' educated guess.
Some clown even penciled in Cordell Hull's name, as a Communist agent...:wacko:
2005-09-13 07:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Stanley]I am familiar with her writings, which I took far too seriously for far too long.
She preached libertarianism, but she was willing to make plenty of exceptions when it came to fighting Communism. For instance, she thought that we should never have gotten into the Vietnam War, but once we did, we had to win, because defeat would encourage the Communists. She also supported our defense treaty with Taiwan.
She only mentioned it once, as an aside, but she said Israel deserved support as well. She also said that any "free" country had a right to overthrow any dictatorship at any time.
She may or may not have supported the current war, but there are plenty of passages in her writings that her followers can use to justify it.[/QUOTE] That clarifies things quite a bit, Stanley.