← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · il ragno
Thread ID: 20073 | Posts: 112 | Started: 2005-09-07
2005-09-07 20:36 | User Profile
Friday night, TCM will be showing an actual feature film made in Nazi Germany that isn't TRIUMPH OF THE WILL or OLYMPIA or one of the few anti-Semitic jobs.....which is surely a first. (The second, actually....they ran BARON MUNCHAUSEN a while back.)
Although the majority of feature films made in Germany between 33 and 45 were escapist fare, light if not devoid of regime propaganda, and Goebbels decreed that UFA emulate the MGM production style, Nazi-era films are anathema here although they're shown with some frequency on European tv. Occasionally some museum will run a retrospective, but generally they're considered to be a contagion: a singing Anthrax-gram that will have you out at 4am the next night painting JUDE on store windows. So whenever you doget a chance to see a Nazi-era film, it's a Riefenstahl or one of the other two standbys, JUD SUSS and DER EWIGE JUDE which by now are the staple children-this-will-horrify-you-but-it's-for-your-own-good two they've been popping into the 8mm projector for 25 years or more. ****in' JUD SUSS should have its own tree in Israel by now, it's raised so much guilt-gelt for Team Shmuel.
2.15am EST, late Friday night/early Sat morning. they will run TITANIC, directed by Herbert Selpin in 1943. Goebbels was angered by this bit of Brit-bashing, feeling that the drowning-panic scenes were too intense to subject to citizens now themselves being pummelled, both from the air and in dead sons. So it was shelved, although completed at great expense (1943 was UFA's 25th anniversary and Goebbels made it the major cultural campaign of the year, pouring a lot of money into a number of prestige productions, of which this was one.) Can't wait to see it myself.
After running a few Italian fascist-era classics in the last two years (THE IRON CROWN and OSESSIONE, to name two), one can only hope we will start to see more Nazi films here. The longer they're hidden from mass audiences, the more convinced I become that they're first-rate films, and as likely, or likelier, to win your sympathies as the often-crude, often-simplistic 'war propaganda' we were making at the time. When two sides in a war are virtually telling the people the same thing - we're fighting for peace! (or honor, or freedom, or against evil) - the effectiveness of the propaganda comes down to who's mastered the techniques better. I used to think Nazi films were verboten here because they were clearly better at war propaganda, but maybe the reason is because you'd take one look and instantly know they [I]weren't[/I].
2005-09-09 09:43 | User Profile
Got DSL the other week, so I was able to see [I]Der Ewige Jude [/I] for the first time: great stuff, especially the way it named Big Yid names. The kosher slaughter scenes were cringingly brutal - maybe some animal rights fanatic with suppressed anti-kike feelings would be outraged into full consciousness by seeing it.
I can't wait for the TCM [I]Der Ewige/Jud Suss/Triumph/Birth of a Nation[/I] quadruple header.... :lol:
2005-09-10 02:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE]The longer they're hidden from mass audiences, the more convinced I become that they're first-rate films, and as likely, or likelier, to win your sympathies as the [U]often-crude, often-simplistic 'war propaganda' we were making at the time.[/U][/QUOTE] IR,
So, I take it you are not a fan of such WW II classics as Action in the North Atlantic and Mission to Moscow?
That's a good write up you have above and I'll see about seeing the Titanic. I'm surprised that Turner would show anything made by N.S. Germany. They showed another WW II era film earlier, Sgt. York. Unlike the trash I listed above I consider this to be one of the best films ever made. It was made as a propaganda film for it is obvious to me that the film was made to prepare the public for US entry into WW II which is why I include it as a WW II movie.
2005-09-10 04:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Friday night, TCM will be showing an actual feature film made in Nazi Germany that isn't TRIUMPH OF THE WILL or OLYMPIA or one of the few anti-Semitic jobs.....which is surely a first. (The second, actually....they ran BARON MUNCHAUSEN a while back.)
Although the majority of feature films made in Germany between 33 and 45 were escapist fare, light if not devoid of regime propaganda, and Goebbels decreed that UFA emulate the MGM production style, Nazi-era films are anathema here although they're shown with some frequency on European tv. Occasionally some museum will run a retrospective, but generally they're considered to be a contagion: a singing Anthrax-gram that will have you out at 4am the next night painting JUDE on store windows. So whenever you doget a chance to see a Nazi-era film, it's a Riefenstahl or one of the other two standbys, JUD SUSS and DER EWIGE JUDE which by now are the staple children-this-will-horrify-you-but-it's-for-your-own-good two they've been popping into the 8mm projector for 25 years or more. ****in' JUD SUSS should have its own tree in Israel by now, it's raised so much guilt-gelt for Team Shmuel.
2.15am EST, late Friday night/early Sat morning. they will run TITANIC, directed by Herbert Selpin in 1943. Goebbels was angered by this bit of Brit-bashing, feeling that the drowning-panic scenes were too intense to subject to citizens now themselves being pummelled, both from the air and in dead sons. So it was shelved, although completed at great expense (1943 was UFA's 25th anniversary and Goebbels made it the major cultural campaign of the year, pouring a lot of money into a number of prestige productions, of which this was one.) Can't wait to see it myself.
After running a few Italian fascist-era classics in the last two years (THE IRON CROWN and OSESSIONE, to name two), one can only hope we will start to see more Nazi films here. The longer they're hidden from mass audiences, the more convinced I become that they're first-rate films, and as likely, or likelier, to win your sympathies as the often-crude, often-simplistic 'war propaganda' we were making at the time. When two sides in a war are virtually telling the people the same thing - we're fighting for peace! (or honor, or freedom, or against evil) - the effectiveness of the propaganda comes down to who's mastered the techniques better. I used to think Nazi films were verboten here because they were clearly better at war propaganda, but maybe the reason is because you'd take one look and instantly know they [I]weren't[/I].[/QUOTE]
You know about this - do you?
Somewhat of an expert are you?
Perhaps you feel qualified to give me tuition?
Mentzer
2005-09-10 05:26 | User Profile
Next week they're running MUNCHAUSEN in the same time-slot. Back to back Nazi movies!
The funny thing is that even as a kid I found the WW2 propaganda movies a drag. You can tell you're being preached to, even if you don't understand why or to what purpose. I watched ACTION IN THE NORTH ATLANTIC not long ago and it was par for the course - the minute the ethnically-diverse proletarian crew started singing the praises of FDR to each other, you understand why the real troops would rather watch anything than a war picture on Movie Night.
Mentzer, I can never penetrate the wannabe-Nazi mysticism of your prose. Tell me, Spearchucker of Destiny, what it is this time that you you find so contemptible.
2005-09-10 06:04 | User Profile
IR,
That's good, maybe they'll show Kolberg too, one day. I understand that the troops they used in Jud Suss were provided by the Leibstandarte.
I think the scene that impressed me the most was when Bogart grabs the machine gun and shoots the shot down pilot. A simply awful movie. Wait, there was one with Paul Muni where he plays a Soviet soldier that captures a basement full of Germans. He is helped in his guard duties by one of the Germans who volunteers that he was a coal miner and a Communist drafted by the Nazis. A toss up on which was the worst.
2005-09-10 07:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]....... 2.15am EST, late Friday night/early Sat morning. they will run TITANIC, directed by Herbert Selpin in 1943. Goebbels was angered by this bit of Brit-bashing, feeling that the drowning-panic scenes were too intense to subject to citizens now themselves being pummelled, both from the air and in dead sons. So it was shelved, although completed at great expense (1943 was UFA's 25th anniversary and Goebbels made it the major cultural campaign of the year, pouring a lot of money into a number of prestige productions, of which this was one.) Can't wait to see it myself. [/QUOTE]Thanks for the tip . It wasn't half bad really, at least compared with the latest version.
2005-09-10 08:06 | User Profile
Yeah, I was surprised at both the backstory (the director, Selpin, was arrested for what I guess was sedition while shooting the film - he'd made a disparaging remark about the German Navy to the scenarist, a Party loyalist who reported him for it - and was "found dead in his cell" the day after) and the lack of knee-jerk demonizing from host Robert Osbourne (he continually called it a German film and not a Nazi film; a nice touch).
Next week, as I indicated earlier, comes the [I]other [/I] big German movie of '43, Josef von Baky's MUNCHAUSEN. Hopefully one day TCM can get ahold of a copy of the single best retelling of the Munchausen story, the Czech version from 1960...a true masterpiece.
2005-09-10 08:44 | User Profile
[B].....and the lack of knee-jerk demonizing from host Robert Osbourne (he continually called it a German film and not a Nazi film; a nice touch).[/B]
I noted that as well. If TCM were the Hitlah Channel, they would've had a post-film panel of crocodile-teared Hollowcost "survivors", amply kleenexed by jews Josh Binswanger & house "historian" Steve Gillon....... :caiphas: :dung: :biggrin:
2005-09-11 23:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Next week they're running MUNCHAUSEN in the same time-slot. Back to back Nazi movies!
The funny thing is that even as a kid I found the WW2 propaganda movies a drag. You can tell you're being preached to, even if you don't understand why or to what purpose. I watched ACTION IN THE NORTH ATLANTIC not long ago and it was par for the course - the minute the ethnically-diverse proletarian crew started singing the praises of FDR to each other, you understand why the real troops would rather watch anything than a war picture on Movie Night.
Mentzer, I can never penetrate the wannabe-Nazi mysticism of your prose. Tell me, Spearchucker of Destiny, what it is this time that you you find so contemptible.[/QUOTE]
You are not of my type - sonny.
You are not of my people.
I comment little and I may comment less. And you are nothing to me. For you are pampered and protected.
Come with me - little man, in a cool forest where my people are buried. The German Soldier murdered by such as you.
Mentzer
2005-09-12 00:21 | User Profile
Mentzer,
You're being rather unfair to Il Ragno. In the past he has shown sympathy with the German position with a number of things. I would think that you would be glad to see that there are people over here who will watch movies of that genre.
2005-09-12 01:34 | User Profile
If I am considered unfair - I can correct that.
However, a "Spearchucker" is something from Africa.
Perhaps the poster will rectify it's error in wording and intent.
Mentzer
2005-09-12 01:44 | User Profile
Mentzer,
The reason you got the reply that you did was because of this:
You know about this - do you?
Somewhat of an expert are you?
Perhaps you feel qualified to give me tuition?
I have to confess I don't understand what you mean either. Perhaps you didn't mean it that way, but I can state to you that it comes across as insulting. Please clarify.
2005-09-12 02:33 | User Profile
The insult was given to me.
You understand that - yes? Or not?
Do you wish to make further insult? On behalf of some other?
Mentzer
2005-09-12 02:42 | User Profile
Mentzer,
You started the insulting with your quote above. I know you understand English quite well. There is nothing he posted above your post that can even be remotely thought of as an insult to you or Germany. In fact, he didn't even mention you until you came on this thread. [QUOTE]Do you wish to make further insult?[/QUOTE] What in the hell for? I'm still trying to figure out what you meant in that quote?! :wallbash:
2005-09-12 02:58 | User Profile
You are correct - I understand English perfectly. In my opinion. Perhaps I do not speak your language, for you have difficulty in the understanding.
I also know a fool when I read its nonsense.
I also dislike animated cartoons. I dislike even more the prattlers that comment upon something they know nothing of.
Perhaps I am not of you and your type. So be it.
I care not. It is not of your interest. And it is not your business.
I am a German man and make no apology for it.
I give you my regard.
Mentzer
2005-09-12 03:08 | User Profile
Mentzer,
Never mind. [QUOTE]I can never penetrate the wannabe-Nazi mysticism of your prose.[/QUOTE] While I wouldn't quite put it this way, the thrust of what Il Ragno writes is correct. You don't make any sense here and it is not worth my time to try to understand what you write for I believe that you don't know yourself. A pity.
By the way, I wasn't asking you to apologize. I simply wanted... oh, to hell with it.
2005-09-12 03:37 | User Profile
You contribute over 5,000 posts and refer to pity?
Pity for what precisely?
Are you a weakling?
Perhaps I come to the wrong place. I have no time for effete nonsense.
Do you understand the meaning of correct and incorrect? I think not. Do you understand the meaning of commonplace and uneasy death? I think not.
Do not preach to me. Not one of you. For you offer me no instruction. My people fought and died in great number. And I honour them and I respect them.
Is there something wrong with you people?
Mentzer
2005-09-12 03:47 | User Profile
Sertorius,
I can understand Mentzer somewhat, but I do not see the need for him to attack the members of the forum. I fear in the past few years I come to just not wanting to think about what happened from 1918 to 1950. What the marxists did is sickening. FDR and the US government murdered millions of Europeans in the 1940's. Now US government wants to wipe out everyone of European blood in America too. I have not raised an American Flag after what happened at Waco and to the weaver family. We have an evil Soviet Government. I want it destroyed.
2005-09-12 04:06 | User Profile
Who do I attack?
Are you subject to it?
Can we be men or can we not?
Mentzer
2005-09-12 04:41 | User Profile
Mentzer, I have no problem blatantly insulting you...and have done so in the past. Who wouldn't, given the ridiculous imitation-Tolkien (or is it bad Conan dialogue?) you continually spout in an attempt to sound 'primal' and 'mystical'. You know...this kind of foolishness:
*You are not of my tribe. This I recognize. You are unworthy to wear the monocle and shiny boots of your natural superior, little man.
I who am Nordic Strength sneer at you, who are Mongrel. Such is my nature.
Come with me into the German woods where only masculine birds may sing, and I will give you a hummer you will not soon forget for only ten marks.
Where will you receive another at such a price?
Mentzer*
Most of us learn to outgrow D & D eventually, Mentzer. Have you ever thought of teaming up with that Erlangr Harberrson guy at the Nordic Portal? Because you two are a matched pair.
2005-09-12 05:10 | User Profile
IR,
LOL!
Mentzer,
I have pity on you, all the other psychobabble you posted to me on this thread notwithstanding. You must really have an inferiority complex. It is such a waste, you do come from good stock. [QUOTE] Perhaps I come to the wrong place. I have no time for effete nonsense.[/QUOTE] Whatever makes your boat float.
That can be translated into this: I don't give a damn what you do.
2005-09-12 05:12 | User Profile
And I have no wastage for communist thugs like you two girls.
Understand me?
I crush things like you under my boot.
I have done so many times.
You ignorant fools.
Mentzer
2005-09-12 05:15 | User Profile
LMFAO
2005-09-12 05:15 | User Profile
Good. Go crush elsewhere and don't let the door hit you in the ass when you leave.
2005-09-12 05:20 | User Profile
Little Stalin boys.
You stain this forum with your communist filth and queer notions.
State otherwise. If you are able.
Your hatred of Germany is noted. And I note you.
Mentzer
2005-09-12 05:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mentzer]Little Stalin boys.
You stain this forum with your communist filth and queer notions.
State otherwise. If you are able.
Your hatred of Germany is noted. And I note you.
Mentzer[/QUOTE]
I don't think anyone here at OD Forum is a Stalin boy, or a communist. And most have good feelings toward Hitler's Germany.
2005-09-12 05:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angler]LMFAO[/QUOTE]
What is that sonny?
Something from a school?
This is good. The little boys are showing what they are.
You queers could never fight a war. Never in your dreams could you win it.
Mentzer
2005-09-12 05:26 | User Profile
Why should I even bother? You're obviously a lunatic or you had one too many liters tonight. Which is it? Reading this crap almost makes me think kindly of FDR.
2005-09-12 05:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mentzer]Little Stalin boys.
You stain this forum with your communist filth and queer notions.
State otherwise. If you are able.
Your hatred of Germany is noted. And I note you.
Mentzer[/QUOTE]I haven't seen anyone on this thread, or even this forum, indicate that they hate Germany. Do you have a quote that you can provide to back up this "hatred of Germany" you're charging someone here with?
You're acting strange, Mentzer. You're reading stuff on your screen that no one is typing.
2005-09-12 05:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]I don't think anyone here at OD Forum is a Stalin boy, or a communist. And most have good feelings toward Hitler's Germany.
------------------[/QUOTE]
Perhaps you are more intelligent than most.
You may be correct.
But that is not the view of those posting here.
Mentzer
2005-09-12 05:45 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Why should I even bother? You're obviously a lunatic or you had one too many liters tonight. Which is it? Reading this crap almost makes me think kindly of FDR.[/QUOTE]
You have a problem with me son?
You can not find a proper expression.
I am not one of your American Boys. I mean what I type. I mean what I say.
I note your terms: "crap". You disgrace yourself.
But then you fear the grave.
I care nothing for this life - unlike you pretenders. I care only for my Fatherland.
Mentzer
2005-09-12 05:53 | User Profile
Angler,
Mentzer,
Some servant of the "Fatherland", you. Posting on a bulletin board based in America.
I note your terms: "crap". You disgrace yourself.
But then you fear the grave.
By now I know better than to ask, but tell me, what does one have to do with the other?
2005-09-12 06:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Angler,
Something that I have noticed about these guys whether it is Friedrich Braun, the loathsome Leland Gaunt, Agrippa, etc, ad nauseum is they always are quick to take offense where none is meant and to accuse the person of "hating Germans" or conduct themselves in the worst Hollywood Nazi tradition. [B]It always follows that pattern.[/B] If these folks are actual Germans or liars I am not sure at this point, but I do know this, if they are Germans they are their own worst enemies.[/QUOTE]Indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of these people are non-Germans (or even Jews) pretending to be psychotic and German in order to make Germans look bad, for whatever reason.
2005-09-12 06:07 | User Profile
Angler,
That is what I suspect. I met a number of Germans when I was stationed overseas and I only met [B]two[/B] that were jerks. One of them was an obnoxious fourteen year old that came out to my vehicle during a field problem. Hmm, I wonder, assuming that Mentzer is really a German if that was him at a younger age? :biggrin:
The rest of them were fine folks.
2005-09-12 06:12 | User Profile
I understand this is an American board.
I offer no offence.
And if you are aware I was the only poster to defend American troops when they were being killed in Arab Lands.
Your fellow Americans were cheering their deaths - on this board. Check the archives.
Do not provoke me.
Be a man or be nothing.
Mentzer
2005-09-12 06:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angler]Indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of these people are non-Germans (or even Jews) pretending to be psychotic and German in order to make Germans look bad, for whatever reason.[/QUOTE]
I was once called a Jew on this board by a stupid ignorant fool.
Do you wish to be regarded as such?
Or are you a simple idiot?
Mentzer
2005-09-12 06:18 | User Profile
My feeling is Mentzer is a Nazi fetishist, under 30, living in America; his horrendous Lord of the Underworld prose style indicates a death-metal fan (wow - how unique). War memorabilia and his knife collection decorate his lonely dwelling, which is rarely if ever sullied by the presence of a woman.
I arrive at this conclusion because every Internet blowhard who talks like him matches that profile!
2005-09-12 06:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mentzer]I was once called a Jew on this board by a stupid ignorant fool.
Do you wish to be regarded as such?
Or are you a simple idiot?
Mentzer[/QUOTE]I never said that you were necessarily a Jew. Nevertheless, that is a distinct possibility. This is the Internet, and I have no way of knowing who or what you are. That is a fact that is not open to debate -- it is simple truth. If it angers you, then that's too bad.
Your incoherent posts on this thread are clearly indicative of these possibilities:
(1) You're a psychotic in need of medical treatment (2) You're drunk or are on drugs (3) You're a troll of some kind (possibly, but not certainly, a Jewish one)
Which is it? If you need medical treatment, then I suggest you go get it at the earliest opportunity.
2005-09-12 06:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Angler,
That is what I suspect. I met a number of Germans when I was stationed overseas and I only met [B]two[/B] that were jerks. One of them was an obnoxious fourteen year old that came out to my vehicle during a field problem. Hmm, I wonder, assuming that Mentzer is really a German if that was him at a younger age? :biggrin:
The rest of them were fine folks.[/QUOTE]
Did you feel welcome in my land?
Understand me sonny. You are not welcome on my land. We do want you or your type. We want you out.
You are nothing to us but useless waste.
We will decide - not something like you. Understand this you idiot - stay away from my country. Never will you step upon it again. Never will you impose your filth upon it.
Understand me.
Mentzer
2005-09-12 06:37 | User Profile
Ah hah! Now we are making progress, Mentzer. I do remember that and it puzzles me to see you acting like in this manner on this thread. Let's put this in order from the beginning of the thread. 1. Il Ragno starts a thread about a WW II German movie. 2. Others express an interest in it. 3. You come on the thread and write to Il Ragno:
You know about this - do you? Somewhat of an expert are you? Perhaps you feel qualified to give me tuition?
I just read your latest post.
Did you feel welcome in my land?
Yes, particularly at the "House of Three Colors". You know it? It is in Stuttgart.
Understand me sonny. You are not welcome on my land. We do want you or your type. We want you out.
I want our troops out as well. The Cold War is over. I was very much welcomed, save the two unpleasant folks I referred to above. I spent the October Fest at a table filled with Germans where we each drank to our nations and to each other.
You are nothing to us but useless waste.
Disagree.
We will decide - not something like you. Understand this you idiot - stay away from my country. Never will you step upon it again. Never will you impose your filth upon it.
The imperial "we". You won't do squat, you knucklehead.
2005-09-12 06:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]My feeling is Mentzer is a Nazi fetishist, under 30, living in America; his horrendous Lord of the Underworld prose style indicates a death-metal fan (wow - how unique). War memorabilia and his knife collection decorate his lonely dwelling, which is rarely if ever sullied by the presence of a woman.
I arrive at this conclusion because every Internet blowhard who talks like him matches that profile![/QUOTE]
I read the prattling of this idiot and decide is it an English fool.
A queer boy. As many are from its stable.
It comes to a conclusion?
My Land is German. I am German.
I detest the English and I detest you. And I will crush you as I would a simple ant.
Mentzer
2005-09-12 06:50 | User Profile
Mentzer,
Stop being an ass.
Normally, at this point you would be headed towards the Cyber Disciplinary Barracks at Cyber Dachau, but this has turned into a really entertaining thread for the members.
I'm going to bed and I suggest you do the same. You've made a big enough fool out of yourself for one night.
2005-09-12 06:55 | User Profile
Before you crush anyone, Mentzer, please do yourself a favor.
I know that there must be psychiatric treatment facilities in the Fatherland. Walk into one at the earliest possible opportunity and request a thorough evaluation. (This is assuming that you aren't very drunk or under the influence of drugs right now.)
Mental illnesses are highly treatable in this day and age, Mentzer. But it's up to you to go get the help that you need.
I'm not saying this to be insulting. I pity your condition and hope you decide to do something to make yourself better.
2005-09-12 07:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Ah hah! Now we are making progress, Mentzer. I do remember that and it puzzles me to see you acting like in this manner on this thread. Let's put this in order from the beginning of the thread. 1. Il Ragno starts a thread about a WW II German movie. 2. Others express an interest in it. 3. You come on the thread and write to Il Ragno:
I just read your latest post.
Yes, particularly at the "House of Three Colors". You know it? It is in Stuttgart.
I want our troops out as well. The Cold War is over. I was very much welcomed, save the two unpleasant folks I referred to above. I spent the October Fest at a table filled with Germans where we each drank to our nations and to each other.
Disagree.
The imperial "we". You won't do squat, you knucklehead.[/QUOTE]
You indulge somewhat in a resume of your detail - why is this?
But then you have made insult in each reply. You adhere to those you know.
Not smart. Not clever. Very inexperienced.
I make it clear to you and your kind that you are not welcome in my country. That is very simple. It needs no explanation.
You wish to be a fool - be so. It does not surprise me. It is no shock - it is common to you. I care nothing about your "personal" experience. You should of been removed some time ago - by force or otherwise.
Consider this hippie - the German man is a soldier - born und bred. You are not. You will never be.
Mentzer
2005-09-12 07:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angler]Before you crush anyone, Mentzer, please do yourself a favor.
I know that there must be psychiatric treatment facilities in the Fatherland. Walk into one at the earliest possible opportunity and request a thorough evaluation. (This is assuming that you aren't very drunk or under the influence of drugs right now.)
Mental illnesses are highly treatable in this day and age, Mentzer. But it's up to you to go get the help that you need.
I'm not saying this to be insulting. I pity your condition and hope you decide to do something to make yourself better.[/QUOTE]
I find you amusing.
Remain with your own people - that of your type.
You disgusting weakling.
You people are unable. You are soft. Disabled. Defective. Weak.
Incapable of anything.
Perhaps that is good?
Mentzer
2005-09-12 09:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]My feeling is Mentzer is a Nazi fetishist, under 30, living in America; his horrendous Lord of the Underworld prose style indicates a death-metal fan (wow - how unique). War memorabilia and his knife collection decorate his lonely dwelling, which is rarely if ever sullied by the presence of a woman.
I arrive at this conclusion because every Internet blowhard who talks like him matches that profile![/QUOTE]
You are not the smartest piece of English garbage floating around.
You are small, fat, needs glasses, soft in stature and regards the homosexual Churchill as your hero.
You hate that which is bigger, stronger, fitter and healthy. You hate the Aryan for you are not of it - and can never be. And thus you hate. And you hate me, little man, for I am of it. And I am proud of it.
You disgust me. As I look upon an insect - I look down upon you.
And that is the way of it. You do not fool me you communist arsehole.
I am one of those that go and return my people from the filth of communist pits. And I deal with anyone that obstructs my way.
Mentzer from Deutschland.
2005-09-12 10:05 | User Profile
Actually, il ragno is a New Yorker of Italian heredity and seems to conform to Julius Evola's unappealing description of the anti-Roman "Mediterranean style", which he characterizes as "half-Semitic":
[left]"love for outward appearances and grand gestures; concern to be noticed by others and to make an impact on them; the choreographic-theatrical and spectacular, comparable to the French grandeur and gloire; the tendency toward a restless, chaotic and undisciplined individualism; intolerance of any general and strict law of order; the fireworks of a creativity disjoined from any higher meaning and tradition; the pseudo-genial hypercritic, expert in eluding a law; the cunning and malicious fooler of others; a gesticulating, noisy and disordered exuberance; a manic effusiveness; excitability and verbosity; a flaunted and conventional sense of honour; immediacy of desire or affection; and a public cheeriness masking an inner hopelessness." [/left] [right][Men Among the Ruins][/right]
2005-09-12 11:37 | User Profile
Ah, yes, Julius Evola. Bill White's very favorite philosopher, who began as a Dadaist and ended up one more crank individualist decrying individualism. Read that description again and then apply it to Evola's loudest champions (White would be one): you'll see it fits [I]much [/I] better.
As for Mentzer: well, this one's for [U]you[/U]. Say - how British was Ernst Rohm?
[QUOTE][I]It’s hard for Americans to grasp how progressive and gay-friendly Germany has become. And Cologne--close to Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Brussels, Rotterdam, and Hamburg--has become the newest gay mecca of northern Europe. Its gay pride celebration, known as Christopher Street Days, has long been one of the largest on the continent, attracting 750,000 people last year. This year promises to be the biggest ever, with Cologne playing host to Europride, the itinerant pan-Europe pridefest. Organizers say they expect 1.5 million lesbians and gays from all across the continent. [/I] [/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://mikopi.image.pbase.com/u32/knobtob/small/31467704.DSC_0097.jpg[/IMG]
[I]A queer boy. My Land is German. I am German. And I will crush you as I would a simple ant.[/I]
[IMG]http://mk31.image.pbase.com/u32/knobtob/small/31467709.DSC_0107.jpg[/IMG] [I]You hate that which is bigger, stronger, fitter and healthy. You hate the Aryan for you are not of it - and can never be. And thus you hate. And you hate me, little man, for I am of it. And I am proud of it.[/I]
[IMG]http://mk23.image.pbase.com/u32/knobtob/small/31467687.DSC_0015.jpg[/IMG] [I]You have a problem with me son? I am not one of your American Boys. You fear the grave - I care only for my Fatherland.[/I]
[IMG]http://mikami.image.pbase.com/u32/knobtob/small/31467715.DSC_0136.jpg[/IMG] [I]You disgust me. You are soft. Disabled. Defective. Weak. You disgusting weakling. Consider this hippie - the German man is a soldier - born und bred. You are not. You will never be.[/I]
2005-09-12 12:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mentzer]I find you amusing.
Remain with your own people - that of your type.
You disgusting weakling.
You people are unable. You are soft. Disabled. Defective. Weak.
Incapable of anything.
Perhaps that is good?
Mentzer[/QUOTE]You hurt my feelings. Now I'm going to go cry. :crybaby:
How did you find out that I'm a weakling? What gave me away?
2005-09-12 14:01 | User Profile
Mentzer,
How's your head this morning? You were in rare form last night. Here's a tip for you. [U]Never mix[/U] Jaegermeister with good beer.
2005-09-12 14:01 | User Profile
Mentioning Bill White in the same sentence with Evola is distasteful. Bill White is an apish clownish nonentity, and is not worthy of discussion even among underground nationalists. Also, some substantiation is needed to your paradoxical thesis on Evola's anti-individualistic individualism.
il ragno raises a good question. Why are Celtic-Germanic and Nordic people so tolerant of the sexual morbidity of their worst strata? This seems to be a self-created and self-nourished problem, unless one implausibly postulates the ever-present hidden destructive hand of Jewry. The Scandinavian countries, in particular, have been innovaters of nihilistic homo-welfarism and degenerate libertinism for years.
2005-09-12 17:50 | User Profile
Bill White (pitiful clown) has something to do with 3rd Reich narrative cinema?
There are three or four 3rd Reich films on DVD in the USA - all from Kino International ([url]www.Kino.com[/url]), all in excellent prints.
Munchhausen is particularly spectacular because the notoriously unstable Agfacolor work has been wonderfully restored. The film is a very charming and sophisticated fantasy for adults - quite up to anything coming from Hollywood at the time.
They also have Titanic (not so hot a film) and La Habanera - by Dietlef Sierck (who became Douglas Sirk on going to Hollywood) - staring the sensationally beautiful and talented Zarah Leander. Kino also has one or two of the mountain films in which Leni Riefenstahl starred in the late 20s, early 30s (so the Riefenstahl movies are not technically 3rd Reich, but they have the same transcendental agenda and also the same mystical feel for nature that NS did...and does). Kino announces a number of additional Riefenstahl mountain films to be released soon.
A few other titles can be found (in not such good prints) on tape at various concerns on the web. Hollywood's Attic has one of the best in a watchable, subtitled tape in The Old and Young King, from 1935, directed by Hans Steinhoff. In it Emil Jannings gives one of his best performances and the story, which details the horrific relationship of Frederick the Great and his father, is so far ahead of Hollywood's sugar coating as to be positively startling. This is an adult movie in the finest sense of the term.
I think you can get Sierck's two other great German films at IHf, but perhaps I remember wrong on this one. Those films - Schlussakkord and Zu Neuen Ufern (with Leander) are maybe the two single best films made in Germany under the 3rd Reich.
Riefenstahl's two best story films are also around but the prints are very iffy. Still, The Blue Light (1931 and the film that initiated Hitler's admiration for the filmmaker) and Tiefland are well worth seeing. The copy I found of Blue Light is so horrible it's unwatchable, but with Tiefland, though it doesn't reflect much more than a hint of the film's visual splendor, is still watchable enough so that you get a sense of the movie's greatness. Maybe Kino will get the rights to Riefenstahl's own films as well as those in which she merely starred - I'm sure they are trying, but her estate must be tied up.
And it sure is about time Criterion put out a DVD of Olympia, surely the single greatest film masterpiece of the 3rd Reich and one of the 10 or 20 greatest of all films ever made.
2005-09-12 18:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]I don't think anyone here at OD Forum is a Stalin boy, or a communist. And most have good feelings toward Hitler's Germany.
------------------[/QUOTE] Most? I don't think so. Conservative does not equal Nazi sympathizer. The ADL would prefer that Americans agree with you, though.
2005-09-12 19:22 | User Profile
There are a number of NS-era directors I'd love to see more of - although for most of them the correct usage would be 'some of'. The aforementioned Hans Steinhoff, Wolfgang Liebeniner, Willi Forst, Karl Anton and of course Sierck/Sirk.
Undeniably and unfortunately, the quality of the print has everything to do with how one experiences the film. TITANIC I thought was in great shape...certainly better than the prints of TESTAMENT OF DR MABUSE and the fascist classic THE IRON CROWN which TCM shows occasionally. Though there have been some rudimentary histories of NS filmmaking written - primarily Kracauer's FROM CALIGARI TO HITLER and Leiser's NAZI CINEMA - both bear the heavy handprint of ideology upon them (and they're both oop anyway); I was [I]about [/I] to say the definitive history has yet to be written, but the unavailability of so many titles makes that possibility look pretty remote.
2005-09-12 19:49 | User Profile
Il Ragno,
To get back to the film, I thought it wasn't too bad for a German version of a "B" grade film. In terms of propaganda content I'd rate one or two notches above the films I mentioned above. I too, thought the film was in good shape, considering how old it is and the silver nitrate they used to make them with. The special effects weren't bad either.
2005-09-12 20:27 | User Profile
Many of the special effects shots in Titanic were lifted (IE, stolen) and inserted into a 1958 British film called A Night to Remember. I don't think that much of the film, but the Brits must have if they thought they'd do better with German 1943 special effects rather than their 1958 own.
Most of the narrative films of the 3rd Reich not only exist (in European archives), but also have been lovingly restored.
Italy also had some fine filmmakers in that period and even better facilities than did the Germans. I really like La Corona di Ferro and would love to see more of Blasetti's films, particularly the big spectaculars he made in the 1930's.
For two 'totalitarian' cinemas that were supposed to be crude, jingoistic and devoid of genuine talent, it's amazing how rich and adult so much German and Italian cinema of the time actually is.
Even in movies with some propagandistic impulses the Germans tend to be balanced, fair, don't call horrible names and refrain from creating the cardboard heroes and villains of Hollywood's anti-German films. There is interesting and perceptive criticism of American business ethics in La Habanera where we see big business hushing up a deadly typhoid epidemic in order to keep the tourist racket going, and in Zu Neuen Ufern the power establishment of Victorian England is shown to be rotten to the core on all levels. Even in Ohm Kruger, most of the characters are depicted as human beings with good and bad in them.
2005-09-12 22:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Most of the narrative films of the 3rd Reich not only exist (in European archives), but also have been lovingly restored.[/QUOTE]
I know that a few have been revived theatrically, and even shown on television in Europe but I had no idea [I]that [/I] many had been preserved and restored. (Many - I'd assumed most - were destroyed outright after the war....I have to believe most of these were distributed prints unearthed in once Axis-occupied countries.) Still, that's great news: I hope it's only a matter of time before Kino or Criterion begin making them available here.
To be fair, I have never heard anyone knowledgable bash 30s/40s German & Italian filmmaking with the well-known exceptions of JUD SUSS, DER EWIGE JUDE and ICH KLAGE AN...and even then, most detractors will focus on the ideology and not the filmmaking. (I'm not counting the Dershowitz-type op-ed snarlers who will smear them as a know-nothing aside). Germany had too well-established a reputation for its great filmmaking to make any pretense that they suddenly all became hacks after Hitler very credible. Of the prewar European movies I've seen, the country that consistently put out the direst product was England: after Hitchcock and Powell, they had no one.
2005-09-12 23:25 | User Profile
I certainly agree about English cinema...hilariously pitiful. One of the best of the earliest filmmakers was a Brit though - Cecil Hepworth. Michael Powell doesn't do a lot for me except for Peeping Tom.
Some German films were lost because of allied terror bombing, but Prague had major facilities and I think a lot of German films were archived there. Prague was one of the few cities not destroyed in our brave attempt to bring freedom to Deutschland from the air. The Soviets, as was their want, grabbed a lot of negatives too, when they moved in.
There is always that unspoken resistance in the Germans...they rebuilt Munich as an exact a copy as possible of what it was before we destroyed it, and then they did the same with Dresden. And, I think they have a similar attitude to a lot of the art and culture stuff like movies. They knock it as dreadful and don't show the ones that tell the truth outright about the enemy of the human race, but at the same time, they go to a lot of trouble to fix what ever can be fixed.
I've read a lot of bilge about how precipitously the German cinema collapsed when the brilliant jews had to go - Erich Pommer -the head UFA guy in particular. And look at the nothing Pommer did after UFA kicked his sorry ass out. What a laugh.
If you have not seen Zarah Leander though, do yourself a favor and get La Habanera (but Zu Neuen Ufern is much better). I don't know how those Swedes kept coming up with such sensational personalities.
2005-09-13 01:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hamilton]Most? I don't think so. Conservative does not equal Nazi sympathizer. The ADL would prefer that Americans agree with you, though.[/QUOTE]
Okay, maybe I should have wrote "some," not "most."
2005-09-14 01:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Mentzer,
How's your head this morning? You were in rare form last night. Here's a tip for you. [U]Never mix[/U] Jaegermeister with good beer.[/QUOTE]
My mind is clear. As always.
And when subject to provocation - you will allow me the right to reply to such. My manner may not be as you expect.
However, I am correct. Offence was directed towards me more so than I offered.
And I have no wish to argue with those of similar thought.
Mentzer
2005-09-14 01:47 | User Profile
[img]http://www.harvardfilmarchive.org/calendars/01marapr/images/thirdreich/Munchausen.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.harvardfilmarchive.org/calendars/01marapr/thirdreich.htm[/url]
2005-09-14 01:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Ah, yes, Julius Evola. Bill White's very favorite philosopher, who began as a Dadaist and ended up one more crank individualist decrying individualism. Read that description again and then apply it to Evola's loudest champions (White would be one): you'll see it fits [I]much [/I] better.
As for Mentzer: well, this one's for [U]you[/U]. Say - how British was Ernst Rohm?
[IMG]http://mikopi.image.pbase.com/u32/knobtob/small/31467704.DSC_0097.jpg[/IMG] [I]A queer boy. My Land is German. I am German. And I will crush you as I would a simple ant.[/I]
[IMG]http://mk31.image.pbase.com/u32/knobtob/small/31467709.DSC_0107.jpg[/IMG] [I]You hate that which is bigger, stronger, fitter and healthy. You hate the Aryan for you are not of it - and can never be. And thus you hate. And you hate me, little man, for I am of it. And I am proud of it.[/I]
[IMG]http://mk23.image.pbase.com/u32/knobtob/small/31467687.DSC_0015.jpg[/IMG] [I]You have a problem with me son? I am not one of your American Boys. You fear the grave - I care only for my Fatherland.[/I]
[IMG]http://mikami.image.pbase.com/u32/knobtob/small/31467715.DSC_0136.jpg[/IMG] [I]You disgust me. You are soft. Disabled. Defective. Weak. You disgusting weakling. Consider this hippie - the German man is a soldier - born und bred. You are not. You will never be.[/I][/QUOTE]
And you sonny.
What is the meaning of your offensive post?
You want to instruct me in something? I refer to your unknown quote you included.
Are you an English boy?
Perhaps not. It has been stated you are a Latin Communist. Some immigrant that hides behind the foolish American Constitution. Someone that runs from it's own country.
Is this correct? Do you feel safe - sonny?
When something like you wants to correspond with me - you will do so in good order.
Do you understand clarity?
Mentzer
2005-09-14 02:01 | User Profile
[img]http://members.fortunecity.com/ymir1/trailers/munchausen.jpg[/img]
[url]http://members.fortunecity.com/ymir1/trailers.html[/url]
2005-09-14 02:51 | User Profile
Mentzer!
Glad to see you back. Not that you care, but I have something for you. You wrote this:
And if you are aware I was the only poster to defend American troops when they were being killed in Arab Lands. Your fellow Americans were cheering their deaths - on this board. Check the archives.
I acknowleged that and I have done the same for you when your ancestors were unfairly attacked. You can check the archives as well. In fact, I have done the same for you. See post #9 and then read #10. [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?p=113834#post113834[/url] Don't think for a minute that this has been a one way street.
My mind is clear. As always.
One other thing on a serious note. Those "Americans" who cheer the death of US personel in Iraq I hold in the same contempt as you probably do for the 20 July Conspirators. Understand?
2005-09-14 04:30 | User Profile
Thank You.
I understand your meaning.
I care little for those that post once or perhaps twice.
I give them no notice. Unless they are tree-monkeys.
But let us be serious for a moment. You may acknowledge I no not post often for I find little to reply. You may be American and I am German.
And I have no wish to make fool of you. And if you consider me hard - you are not in error.
But I suggest you need not make confrontation.
Mentzer
2005-09-14 13:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Come with me into the German woods where only masculine birds may sing, [B]and I will give you a hummer [/B] you will not soon forget for only ten marks.
[/QUOTE]
Incomparable. :blush:
2005-09-14 21:18 | User Profile
It's a damn shame somebody zotzed out those German gay-pride pics I juxtaposed with Mentzer's 'poetry'. Now the whole joke falls flat.
Isn't it something...the way the avators of warlike strength and dominance, on the Internet at least, are always the ones who lost, and lost disastrously? Kinda like the people who can't stop wailing about Dresden but suffer memory lapses about the Blitz.
So Mentzer...as this thread was about filmmaking during the NS era and you immediately began fuming about how no one but you was qualified to utter a word on the subject, I can't help but notice that you haven't contributed a single scrap of information, cited a factoid, mentioned a source or even offered a germane opinion in any way related to the topic.
[QUOTE][QUOTE]Tell me, Spearchucker of Destiny, what it is this time that you you find so contemptible.[/QUOTE]
[I]A "Spearchucker" is something from Africa.
Perhaps the poster will rectify it's error in wording and intent.[/I][/QUOTE]
Did the 'soft, weak English' make you stupid as well? Because somebody did -most wannabe-Nazis would've instantly recognized the Spear of Destiny reference, being aware of its historical importance to the NS worldview. You seem never to have heard of it. But you can sure [I]talk [/I] like Thulsa Doom!
2005-09-16 11:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Next week they're running MUNCHAUSEN in the same time-slot. Back to back Nazi movies![/QUOTE] IR,
The time changed. It comes on at 0:200AM tonight.
2005-09-16 14:41 | User Profile
The Kino DVD of Munchausen has a number of excellent special features including a terrific Agfacolor Munchausen cartoon and two examples of contemporary German color restoration - before and after clips from the first German color movie and from a mid 40s version of Fledermaus. The extreme meticulousness so characteristic of the German character are very much in evidence in the comparisons as the technicians even interpolate frames when a few are missing in one clip. Highly charming stuff, too, by the way.
2005-09-17 02:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]It's a damn shame somebody zotzed out those German gay-pride pics I juxtaposed with Mentzer's 'poetry'. Now the whole joke falls flat.
Isn't it something...the way the avators of warlike strength and dominance, on the Internet at least, are always the ones who lost, and lost disastrously? Kinda like the people who can't stop wailing about Dresden but suffer memory lapses about the Blitz.
So Mentzer...as this thread was about filmmaking during the NS era and you immediately began fuming about how no one but you was qualified to utter a word on the subject, I can't help but notice that you haven't contributed a single scrap of information, cited a factoid, mentioned a source or even offered a germane opinion in any way related to the topic.
Did the 'soft, weak English' make you stupid as well? Because somebody did -most wannabe-Nazis would've instantly recognized the Spear of Destiny reference, being aware of its historical importance to the NS worldview. You seem never to have heard of it. But you can sure [I]talk [/I] like Thulsa Doom![/QUOTE]
I find your wording offensive.
And I find you offensive - with your lack of manner and learning.
However, inform me of your detailed knowledge of the Dresden holocaust and the attempted justification that underlies your expressions of hatred towards my people.
Do you consider yourself a clever boy - by the chance of nature? I think not.
Do you possess the education, or perhaps reading, or perhaps experience to comment without prejudice - I think not.
Are you adult or juvenile? Man or infant? Woman or girl?
Your provocation is childish. Your understanding null.
Make no pretence at courage - you know nothing of its meaning.
Mentzer
2005-09-17 03:12 | User Profile
I guess you have to wait until payday until you can hit the liquor store.
But in case I haven't made myself perfectly clear, I find you a laughable Lindstedt-in-lederhosen and - given the lovingly-oiled pectoral muscles of your purple prose - quite possibly a closet homosexual of some kind, whose favorite Nazi fantasy involves you and your Hitlerjunge comrades finding a nice quiet spot in the woods to get shirtless and wrestle each other by torchlight.
Now do everyone a favor - scuttle away, you goose-stepping fool. I'm too tired to imitate one of your idiotic posts.
2005-09-17 03:18 | User Profile
Quex?
2005-09-17 03:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]I guess you have to wait until payday until you can hit the liquor store.
But in case I haven't made myself perfectly clear, I find you a laughable Lindstedt-in-lederhosen and - given the lovingly-oiled pectoral muscles of your purple prose - quite possibly a closet homosexual of some kind, whose favorite Nazi fantasy involves you and your Hitlerjunge comrades finding a nice quiet spot in the woods to get shirtless and wrestle each other by torchlight.
Now do everyone a favor - scuttle away, you goose-stepping fool. I'm too tired to imitate one of your idiotic posts.[/QUOTE]
You have exposed yourself - very easily.
I now know what you are - in certainty and purpose. For you have given it away in stupid fashion.
How did you manage so many posts? Are some asleep or merely acquiescent? Or perhaps someone else is part of it and allows you the indulgence.
I have noted you for some time. And what is the the need or use for a disruptive Juden Communist on Original Dissent? An Anti-German, Anti-American falsifier and hater? An ugly communist and wailing Jew?
Any Ideas - from the clever and aware?
Perhaps there exists an infestation on here? Correct?
Perhaps some on this site employ it to attack others of more import on other places of greater importance. Towards those that offer no fear - but that you are fearful of - those that are men and make no pretence otherwise.
Some will need to reappraise their thinking and attitude regarding those that post in false pretence.
For understand me carefully and clearly - this is not good enough.
Regards
Mentzer
2005-09-17 04:46 | User Profile
If recognizing that you're an asshole is the telltale mark of Judaism, Mentzer, then it turns out there's a helluva lot more than 14 million Jews in the world after all.
2005-09-17 05:12 | User Profile
You have fooled Original Dissent.
I intend to correct that.
I know your origin and I am aware of your placement.
Mentzer
2005-09-17 05:58 | User Profile
Oy! Forge me a passport, Pinchas - the jig's up!
2005-09-17 06:15 | User Profile
Angler Quote: [QUOTE]Indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if at least some of these people are non-Germans (or even Jews) pretending to be psychotic and German in order to make Germans look bad, for whatever reason.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, Every village has it's idio...(ahem).... Character.
Time for Mentzervitz to go back to peddling penis enlargement spam & get rich quick schemes.
2005-09-17 08:03 | User Profile
Supporting your little comrade - are you?
Since when were you people considered smart?
You have never understood it from the start.
You believe anything. As I read here.
Give it a rest son. You know nothing of it.
Mentzer
2005-09-17 08:04 | User Profile
IR,
They did a superb job with that one.
2005-09-17 08:13 | User Profile
Here is the American boys prattling on and on about something they now not of - but would like to, in a comfortable way.
They talk of this and they talk of that. And they fear what they talk of.
There are some, in North America, I can call men.
They are not on here. You have an infection. And I have corresponded with those of your countrymen that regard you as puppies.
I give you my limited consideration.
Mentzer
2005-09-17 08:44 | User Profile
This is completely off-topic, but it appears this thread was derailed long ago anyway. This is the funniest thread I have read in a while. Mentzer, the way you speak on here is so strange.(poetic? I don't know how I would classify it) I am not saying that in a positive or negative way, neccessarily. I have noticed it plenty of times before. Do you speak this way in person?
2005-09-17 08:46 | User Profile
I speak German.
Not English.
Mentzer
2005-09-17 13:25 | User Profile
I watched [I]Munchhausen[/I], and what a treat it was, too: a fantastic adventure yarn - and nekkid harem girls frolicking in glorious living color! It beats the shit out of [I]Wizard of Oz[/I], lemme tell ya.
Too bad TCM had to show that reeking bag of anti-Nazi puke [I]Watch on the Rhine[/I] immediately following. :caiphas: :dung:
2005-09-17 13:45 | User Profile
Mentzer,
Seeing how you don't wish to share your enlightenment with the rest of us in regard to these German movies, maybe you can share your knowlege of English speaking movies with us.
There is a word know to millions of English speakers . (and many Germans too, I believe!) It was made famous by the POW camp commandant "von Luger" (Oberst (Colonel) Freidrich-Wilhelm von Lindeiner-Wildau in real life) from the 1963 film [url=http://www.historyinfilm.com/escape/real1.htm]The Great Escape[/url]. He would say it in dealing with [U]troublemakers[/U] that would be brought before him. (hint: Steve McQueen knew it well from the film)
Can you guess the word?
2005-09-17 19:03 | User Profile
What a fantastic film! Just a triumph of art direction, color, lighting, camerawork, direction....I had tried patiently to see this many years ago but, at the time, the print in circulation was a dog-eared mess (in badly faded color besides) and I'd bailed out in frustration a half-hour in.
What a world of difference a little careful restoration makes, eh?
Interesting that there seems never to have been a bad Munchhausen movie...at least of the three I've seen, two are great and the third, very very good (there have been over a dozen filmings of this comic fantasy, dating back to 1911, so maybe I'm jumping the gun). It's foolish to get into which is 'better' because they're each fundamentally the same but vitaly different in the details...but it's fair to say the Gilliam version, impressive though it is, is the least of the three, once compared to the meticulous opulence of von Baky's spectacle, and the unbridled phantasmagoria of Karel Zeman's 1960 version.
And I'm glad I wasn't the only one coughing up a loogie after being exposed to the hamfisted, dead-on-arrival propaganda of WATCH ON THE RHINE immediately afterwards. Whoever was in charge of the programming last night is a pretty sly customer, following a stupendous NS-era film like MUNCHHAUSEN with possibly the clumsiest, most stilted Allied agitprop feature ever shot. As a compare-n-contrast, it made a great Nazi recruitment poster.
2005-09-17 19:12 | User Profile
Spider,
The IMDb lists 20 actually...in addition to Harryhausen's test sequence and the fine cartoon which is included as an extra on the Kino AGFA restoration DVD.
NBF's correct about the bare-breast sequence in the Sultan's harem (and the open suggestivess of the Katherine the Great scenes)...the Germans were far from the rigid, puritanical prudes that is a constant part of their demonization.
Their approach to sexuality was far more open and less morbid than in the Plutocracies...
**IMDb Title Search
A search for "munchausen" found the following results:
Popular Results Popular Titles (Displaying 1 Result)
The Adventures of Baron Munchausen (1988) aka "Abenteuer des Baron von Münchhausen, Die" - Germany
Other Results Titles (Partial Matches) (Displaying 4 Results)
Baron Prásil (1961) aka "The Fabulous Baron Munchausen" - USA aka "The Original Fabulous Adventure of Baron Munchausen" - (video title) Münchhausen (1943) aka "The Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Muenchhausen" aka "Baron Munchhausen" aka "The Adventures of Baron Munchausen" - USA Aventures de baron de Munchhausen, Les (1911) aka "Baron Munchausen's Dream" - USA aka "Munchhausen" aka "Hallucinations de baron de Munchhausen, Les" aka "The Hallucinations of Baron Munchausen" - USA aka "Baron Munchhausen" Fabuleuses aventures du legendaire Baron de Munchausen, Les (1979)
Titles (Approx Matches) (Displaying 15 Results)
Tot samyy Myunkhgauzen (1979) (TV) aka "That Munchhausen" Baron Prásil (1940) aka "Baron Munchhausen" - (English title) (informal title), USA Baron Münchhausen in a Whale of a Tale: A German Legend (1989) Genosse Münchhausen (1962) Münchhausen (1966) (TV) Münchhausen in Afrika (1958) Schuft, der den Münchhausen schrieb, Der (1979) (TV) Leo, der schwarze Münchhausen (1913) Münchhausens neuestes Abenteuer (1936) Priklyucheniya Myunkhauzena (1982) aka "The Adventures of Baron Münchhhausen" - (English title) Vääpeli Mynkhausen (1957) aka "Fältväbel Mynkhausen" - Finland (Swedish title) The Sunchaser (1996) München - Geheimnisse einer Stadt (2000) Visions of Eight (1973) aka "Olympiade München 1972" - Germany (TV title) aka "München 1972 - 8 berühmte Regisseure sehen die Spiele der XX. Olympiade" - Germany Daikaijû kuchu kessan: Gamera tai Gyaosu (1967) aka "Daikaijû kuchusen: Gamera tai Gaos"**
[url]http://www.imdb.com/find?q=munchausen;s=tt[/url]
2005-09-17 19:15 | User Profile
As an example of more sophisticated Allied propaganda, check out Alfred Hitchcock's [I]The Foreign Correspondent[/I] (1940) - Joseph Goebbels commented upon it in his diaries in January 1942: [COLOR=DarkRed][B][FONT=Garamond] [SIZE=3] "I saw the new American propaganda movie, [I]The Foreign Correspondent[/I]. It is a first-class production, a criminological bang-up hit, which no doubt will make a certain impression upon the broad masses in enemy countries."[/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/COLOR]
Petr
2005-09-17 19:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]As an example of more sophisticated Allied propaganda, check out Alfred Hitchcock's [I]The Foreign Correspondent[/I] (1940) - Joseph Goebbels commented upon it in his diaries in January 1942: [COLOR=DarkRed][B][FONT=Garamond] [SIZE=3] "I saw the new American propaganda movie, [I]The Foreign Correspondent[/I]. It is a first-class production, a criminological bang-up hit, which no doubt will make a certain impression upon the broad masses in enemy countries."[/SIZE][/FONT][/B][/COLOR]
Petr[/QUOTE]
Good example, Petr...another well done Brit propaganda offering was Carol Reed's "Night Train to Munich".
[img]http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/coverv/85/140285.jpg[/img]
Charters: I bought a copy of Mein Kampf. Occurred to me it might shed a spot of light on all this... how d'ye do. Ever read it? Caldicott: Never had the time. Charters: I understand they give a copy to all the bridal couples over here. Caldicott: Oh, I don't think it's that sort of book, old man.
2005-09-17 19:43 | User Profile
They went to a lot of detail. The Russian uniforms were accurate from the period. I noted that Munchausen was uniformed all the way down the the gorget around his neck that denotes an officer.
The comments of a sexual nature were done in an adult manner in constrast to the junior high crap one encounters today on the radio and t.v.
An impressive film overall.
I didn't bother to stay up any further and see the Watch on the Rhine. While I remember it to be a crude propaganda film that I saw years ago, I have to admit for me it was a [U]very fogettable movie.[/U]
2005-09-17 19:51 | User Profile
Sert,
Here's a still from the film showing the Baron with that gorget--in this scene he's a Russian officer fighting the Turks (just before the famous cannonball ride):
[img]http://www.german-cinema.de/archive/images/muenchhausen.jpg[/img]
2005-09-17 20:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE]As an example of more sophisticated Allied propaganda, check out Alfred Hitchcock's The Foreign Correspondent (1940)[/QUOTE]
I've always loved that one, one of Hitchcock's most consistently-overlooked.
It's often downplayed or simply forgotten, but one consistent feature of both Hitchcock and Michael Powell's wartime films that made them stand apart was the [I]sympathetic or otherwise-admirable German character[/I]. While the Nazis were of course the villains, during the war they were usually portrayed as ruthless and cruel, but cultured and often charming as well. It was rumored that Powell's likable German character featured in COLONEL BLIMP cost him his knighthood (it certainly infuriated Churchill), and Hitch took no small amount of heat for portraying Walter Slezak's Nazi in LIFEBOAT as infinitely more resourceful and intelligent than the Allies sharing the raft with him. His most outright-nasty Nazi was Otto Kruger in SABOTEUR, yet compared to lunkhead hero Robert Cummings you couldn't help but like Kruger (and you miss him when he's not onscreen)...and Herbert Marshall's Nazi in CORRESPONDENT was downright [I]noble[/I].
The 50s saw a number of sympathetic onscreen Nazis, in keeping with the spirit of rapprochement - Curt Jurgens and Peter van Eyck even became sex symbols for a time. In fact, it wasn't until long after the war, once the ethnic designation of "German-American" had been atomized into scattered protons and neutrons, that we really began to see the plethora of sadistic subhuman-monster Nazis start trundling off the assembly lines. Just around the time the word "holocaust" began to appear capitalized and followed by a TM symbol.
2005-09-17 20:47 | User Profile
Here's one for you fro the '50s, IR. The Enemy Beneath, with Robert Mitchum and Curt Juergens. There won't be a movie made like that one today. Instead, you get trash like U-555.
2005-09-18 13:06 | User Profile
[I]NBF's correct about the bare-breast sequence in the Sultan's harem (and the open suggestivess of the Katherine the Great scenes)...the Germans were far from the rigid, puritanical prudes that is a constant part of their demonization.
Their approach to sexuality was far more open and less morbid than in the Plutocracies... [/I]
Yes, I also noted the sophisticated treatment of sex in the film. How delightfully refreshing to see an adult theme handled in a playfully adult manner.
Truly a magnificent work of cinematic art. They damn well better run it again soon, because I stupidly neglected to tape it.
2005-09-18 13:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno] And I'm glad I wasn't the only one coughing up a loogie after being exposed to the hamfisted, dead-on-arrival propaganda of WATCH ON THE RHINE immediately afterwards. Whoever was in charge of the programming last night is a pretty sly customer, following a stupendous NS-era film like MUNCHHAUSEN with possibly the clumsiest, most stilted Allied agitprop feature ever shot. As a compare-n-contrast, it made a great Nazi recruitment poster.[/QUOTE]
Oh, how nobly self-sacrificing the Muller clan was - from Dear Papa Kurt right down to the li'l shitter-fascinated dictionary-wart. And all those marvelously stirring sermons! By Gawd, mister, if I'd been a Red-Blooded Amurricun Stud when that epic was released, no power on earth coulda kept me from puttin' my life savings in War Bonds just before signin' up to git me a big, meaty chunk o' that Kraut Killin' Action!
Three cheers for those great patriots Herman Shumlin, Dash Hammett 'n' Lillian Hellman! :caiphas: :dung: :hitler:
2005-09-18 13:52 | User Profile
Jes' for laffs, dig this fawning IMDB "review":
[I]An excellent movie, 23 November 2001 8/10 Author: Colin McEvoy (homer_simpson91@hotmail.com) from Pennsylvania, USA
It may (or may not) be considered interesting that the only reason I really checked out this movie in the first place was[/I] [B]because I wanted to see the performance of the man who beat out Humphrey Bogart in his CASABLANCA (10/10 role for the Best Actor Oscar.[/B] I [/I][B]Well, I'm glad I did check this movie out, because I enjoyed it immensely. I think the movie did preach a little, but not only did I not mind, I enjoyed the speeches and was never bored with them. [/B] [B]The acting was outstanding in this movie. I especially enjoyed Paul Lukas, Lucile Watson (rightfully nominated for an Oscar), Bette Davis (wrongfully not nominated), George Coulouris and, oddly, Eric Roberts, who plays the middle child. I really enjoyed his character: an odd-looking boy who talks like some sort of philosopher. He just cracks me up. Even the characters name (Bodo) is funny.[/B]:1eye:
[I]The ending, in which Lukas's character was forced to do something he considered wrong even though he was doing it for all the right reasons, worked for me as well. I agreed with why he felt he had to what he did, and I understood why he couldn't quite explain it. The message this movie makes is a good and noble one, the scenery (meaning the house) is beautiful, and the acting is the excellent. Watch this movie if you ever get a chance. [/I] [B]9/10 [/B] :wacko:
2005-09-18 15:15 | User Profile
N.B.,
With this e-mail address, (homer_simpson91@hotmail.com) you really have all you need to know about this person.
2005-09-18 23:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mentzer]Here is the American boys prattling on and on about something they now not of - but would like to, in a comfortable way.
They talk of this and they talk of that. And they fear what they talk of.
There are some, in North America, I can call men.
They are not on here. You have an infection. And I have corresponded with those of your countrymen that regard you as puppies.
I give you my limited consideration.
Mentzer[/QUOTE] Mentzer,
You lack a developed sense of humour. You approach everything with Teutonic seriousness, which leaves you open to mockery. This is a recognised trait of the German national character.
German humour is forced, ungainly, and above all: unfunny. It proceeds from a lack of the fundamental principles of humourous communication and is often characterised by clumsy aping of the example of others.
Because you do not understand humour, you resent those who display skill with humourous prose, such as il ragno. This is ungracious and petty of you, and denotes that you have a painful awareness of your ineptitude at this artform.
You deride the humour of non-German European nationalities as effeminate and "queer" prattle, because you do not understand how humour can facilitate masculine bonds of political and national brotherhood and add cohesion to a political movement.
This is your weakness. Please do not impose it on others with your posts.
-RowdyRoddyPiper.
2005-09-19 00:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Esoterist]Actually, il ragno is a New Yorker of Italian heredity and seems to conform to Julius Evola's unappealing description of the anti-Roman "Mediterranean style", which he characterizes as "half-Semitic":
[left]"love for outward appearances and grand gestures; concern to be noticed by others and to make an impact on them; the choreographic-theatrical and spectacular, comparable to the French grandeur and gloire; the tendency toward a restless, chaotic and undisciplined individualism; intolerance of any general and strict law of order; the fireworks of a creativity disjoined from any higher meaning and tradition; the pseudo-genial hypercritic, expert in eluding a law; the cunning and malicious fooler of others; a gesticulating, noisy and disordered exuberance; a manic effusiveness; excitability and verbosity; a flaunted and conventional sense of honour; immediacy of desire or affection; and a public cheeriness masking an inner hopelessness." [/left] [right][Men Among the Ruins][/right][/QUOTE]
:lol:
:rockon: :rockon:
2005-09-19 00:41 | User Profile
If any notable writers should ever bother to find smug buffoons from Oklahoma worth the effort to write about, Okie, I'll be sure to cut-n-paste it.
Don't hold your breath, however.
2005-09-20 00:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Mentzer,
Seeing how you don't wish to share your enlightenment with the rest of us in regard to these German movies, maybe you can share your knowlege of English speaking movies with us.
There is a word know to millions of English speakers . (and many Germans too, I believe!) It was made famous by the POW camp commandant "von Luger" (Oberst (Colonel) Freidrich-Wilhelm von Lindeiner-Wildau in real life) from the 1963 film [url=http://www.historyinfilm.com/escape/real1.htm]The Great Escape[/url]. He would say it in dealing with [U]troublemakers[/U] that would be brought before him. (hint: Steve McQueen knew it well from the film)
Can you guess the word?[/QUOTE]
What is this word you make reference to?
I either know or I know not - I do not 'guess'.
However, you mention Steve McQueen:
Born in Beech Grove, Indiana, Mid-West America.
Trained by Bruce Lee.
Raced with Mario Andretti.
Targeted by Charles Manson.
Married to Ali Macgraw.
Died in Juarez Mexico.
Made a few films.
The 'King of Cool'.
Correct?
Mentzer
2005-09-20 00:35 | User Profile
[QUOTE=RowdyRoddyPiper]Mentzer,
You lack a developed sense of humour. You approach everything with Teutonic seriousness, which leaves you open to mockery. This is a recognised trait of the German national character.
German humour is forced, ungainly, and above all: unfunny. It proceeds from a lack of the fundamental principles of humourous communication and is often characterised by clumsy aping of the example of others.
Because you do not understand humour, you resent those who display skill with humourous prose, such as il ragno. This is ungracious and petty of you, and denotes that you have a painful awareness of your ineptitude at this artform.
You deride the humour of non-German European nationalities as effeminate and "queer" prattle, because you do not understand how humour can facilitate masculine bonds of political and national brotherhood and add cohesion to a political movement.
This is your weakness. Please do not impose it on others with your posts.
-RowdyRoddyPiper.[/QUOTE]
You state 'weakness'?
Some may consider the continual searching for humour as a mission and means to avoid despair.
No doubt it is condsidered of importance to many.
Mentzer
2005-09-20 01:35 | User Profile
It would be preferred if my earlier comments on this thread were removed.
However, this would render some replies redundant.
Therefore, I withdraw my sentiments stated previously on this thread and regret the offence caused or implied.
My wording was, of course, harsh and unfair to those posting.
My apologies to you all
Mentzer
2005-09-20 10:08 | User Profile
Mentzer,
I thank you for that and in turn withdraw my offensive comments with apologies made to you as well.
Incidently, to answer your question above the word is "cooler", that is, the prison camp jail.
2005-09-20 11:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Mentzer,
I thank you for that and in turn withdraw my offensive comments with apologies made to you as well.
Incidently, to answer your question above the word is "cooler", that is, the prison camp jail.[/QUOTE]
[img]http://www.richardattenborough.com/Posters/1963%20The%20Great%20Escape/Autographs/xMcQueen.jpg[/img]
2005-09-27 04:53 | User Profile
[IMG]http://hometown.aol.com/buffalofox/images/steve%20mcqueen%203.jpg[/IMG]
2005-09-27 05:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mentzer][img]http://hometown.aol.com/buffalofox/images/steve%20mcqueen%203.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] HAHAHA! Now you're getting the hang of it :lol:
My apologies to you if my earlier statements caused offense.
2005-09-27 05:52 | User Profile
Mentzer,
I have read your statements about Muslim immigration to Europe on this board and I find them convincing. If you avoid making negative comment about non-German European nationalities I believe you will find a more receptive audience to your arguments.
-RowdyRoddyPiper
2005-10-03 01:09 | User Profile
If I may question.
What non-German European nationality do you derive from?
That which is the confirmed enemy of Germany regardless of circumstance - or that of friendly status?
Since many so-called democracies have a war-like habit in declaring outright total conflict upon my country and confirm to gangster get-together-cartels of murder and mayhem - I accept no instruction from such.
Mentzer
2005-10-03 11:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Mentzer]If I may question.
What non-German European nationality do you derive from?[/QUOTE] I am a White New Zealander of Irish, English, and a small amount of Scottish ancestry (Irish mother, English/Scottish father). [QUOTE=Mentzer] That which is the confirmed enemy of Germany regardless of circumstance - or that of friendly status?[/QUOTE] You can take your pick between DeValera and Churchill I guess. :unsure: [QUOTE=Mentzer] Since many so-called democracies have a war-like habit in declaring outright total conflict upon my country and confirm to gangster get-together-cartels of murder and mayhem - I accept no instruction from such.[/QUOTE] I wasn't offering instruction, only friendly advice.
2005-10-05 01:03 | User Profile
Thank you friend.
Churchill. Did he not offer his soul cheaply to the devil?
The devil as that which walked the earth. And now occupies the same space as it - in the depths of Hell? \ Stalin and Churchill. Two small and ugly pieces. One a mass-murderer the other a mass-murderer. Both unmanly in the extreme. Both unnatural in mind and thought. There exists a correlation - strange is it not? They appeared simultaneously.
Yes. Without doubt.
So. You are a New Zealander? Interesting. How is the South Pacific at this time?
Cool of air and blue of sky?
Mentzer
2005-10-05 22:10 | User Profile
Mentzer,
All too true! I might add Roosevelt to the list of mass murders as well.
[QUOTE=Mentzer]Churchill. Did he not offer his soul cheaply to the devil?
The devil as that which walked the earth. And now occupies the same space as it - in the depths of Hell? \ Stalin and Churchill. Two small and ugly pieces. One a mass-murderer the other a mass-murderer. Both unmanly in the extreme. Both unnatural in mind and thought. There exists a correlation - strange is it not? They appeared simultaneously.
Yes. Without doubt. [/QUOTE]