← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Petr
Thread ID: 19973 | Posts: 50 | Started: 2005-09-03
2005-09-03 14:00 | User Profile
[url]http://www.revisionisthistory.org/thebasket.html[/url]
[FONT=Georgia] [SIZE=6]New Orleans: The Buck Stops Here[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]by Michael A. Hoffman II
Copyright é2005 by revisionisthistory.org
Two points about the catastrophe in New Orleans (besides the obvious one, how our nation's emergency resources have been drained and squandered in Mr. Bush's Iraq "adventure").
First, I am getting e-mail from Christians solemnly noting that the hurricane struck New Orleans shortly before the onset of "Southern Decadence," a homosexual extravaganza scheduled for the Crescent City. A news release which appears to have originated with a Protestant group and is being circulated by Protestants and Catholics, reads as follows: "ACT OF GOD DESTROYS NEW ORLEANS DAYS BEFORE SOUTHERN DECADENCE: Just days before 'Southern Decadence,' an annual homosexual celebration attracting tens of thousands of people to the French Quarter of New Orleans, an act of God destroys the city."
Makes all of us Christians feel good, even superior doesn't it? "God has struck down those homosexuals, fellow conservative Christians!" What a blasphemous joke on God, His Church and the Bible. What did Jesus say about regarding not the mote in the other guy's eye, but rather the beam in our own?
My God, my God! Are there any faithful Christians left in America, anywhere? Listen big shots, you who are so proud of your spiritual condition that you would gloat over the misery that has struck tens of thousands of the poor and the afflicted in New Orleans, God regards most of us as just as rotten and wicked as any "homosexual." That's right!
We have put away God's law, the immemorial teachings of His Church, the Fathers of that Church and the sacred Scriptures. Let me take this opportunity to refresh your memory, thou morally superior, family values Republicans. The vast majority of conservative, suburban, flag-waving Christians are sodomites, just as guilty in the eyes of God as any homo.
I ask you, are there gradations of first degree murder? Am I a worse fellow for having shot to death your grandfather, than you, who stabbed to death my grandmother? You wouldn't split Talmudic hairs with those categories of capital crime and mortal sin, would you? Yet, most "conservative Christians" do just that when it comes to sodomy.
Now hear this: there is no "lesser" sodomy. In God's eyes, in the eyes of His holy Church, and His Holy Writ, sodomy is sodomy. It is all equally vile, equally filthy, equally abominable! What is sodomy? How has God's Church always defined sodomy? Surely you should know, you who claim to be of the CONSERVative Christian affiliation and conviction, surely you have conserved in your homes and churches the ancient teaching of Christianity concerning this, otherwise you cannot by any yardstick qualify as a "conservative" Christian.
[B]For those with amnesia, for those for whom the word "conservative" is little more than a goody-two shoes fad having more to do with marching in lock-step with Rush Limbaugh and looking good in front of the Joneses, than obeying Yahweh, allow me to impart the sense of the Church since Day One: sodomy is any willful spilling or destruction of the man's seed, such as through masturbation or birth control, not just fellatio and anal intercourse. That's been the law of the Church from alpha street. Augustine and Jerome upheld it. The popes transmitted it. Even Luther and Calvin taught it. There were no two Christian opinions on this subject until the 20th century Church apostasized and became liberal.[/B]
[B]If you are a liberal, then you are consistent when you single out homosexual acts for opprobrium and God's wrath, while absolving your own acts of masturbation and contraception as merely venial sins, if indeed you regard them as transgressions of any kind. But for a "conservative" Protestant or a "traditional" Catholic to hold those views is a sign of grave confusion and sickness of soul. [U]How do you imagine homosexuality went from being an outlawed perversion on the distant margins of our society, to a brazen, legalized, mainstream movement? The "gay rights" movement could not have been possible had not masturbation and birth control first gained acceptance in modern "Christian" society, regarded by "Christians" as trifling matters for which the mature believer need not have a "hang up.[/U]" When that lie from hell became widespread, those with a homosexual orientation also shed their inhibitions.[/B]
You spill your seed and then thank God that he has scourged New Orleans? Brother, if I were you, I would be looking over my shoulder and around every corner for the tornado, earthquake or speeding locomotive that sooner or later will have an appointment with you, according to your own logic. If you presume to speak for God, and you judge New Orleans deserving of divine wrath, even as you masturbate, or you and your wife --or paramour-- contracept, you are equally deserving of the wrath of God.
[B]Finally, I have been receiving racialist e-mail in the past few days, also of the golating variety, this time gloating that the "true face" of those "black savages" in Louisiana is at last being shown to the world, as "they loot and pillage" etc. This is exactly where the System wants our minds fixated. As the deadly poisonous benezene and heavy metals from all the poorly regulated and monitored chemical polluters in Louisiana get dumped by the millions of gallons into the Gulf of Mexico, as Halliburton stock zooms from $8.60 a share (in early 2002, when the oil economy was depressed), to yesterday, when it hit $63.44, setting a record for the first time since 1997, the Cryptocracy directs our anger and disgust at the pillage by black paupers. But what of the pillage, on a global scale, by white collars?[/B]
A bamboozled, rudderless nation, roiling in greed, drowning in digitally-enhanced schizophrenia blathered from pulpits secular and religious, cannot and will not please God or build a just and decent commonweal for our children.
The buck stops here: homosexuals and blacks are not particularly to blame; the main fault is in our own rotten, hypocritical selves, and the leaders we follow precisely because, deep down inside, we know they embody the same decay and corruption that we do, and the last thing we want is to be challenged to change. We prefer to use our presidents and politicians to give us the cover we need to stay the same. The evil is always "out there," never within.
It's not just New Orleans that needs cleansing[/SIZE].[/FONT]
2005-09-03 15:02 | User Profile
I sidestep the religious arguments made here but I'm forced to say:
Man! Why did I not buy Halliburton? That is un-friggin-believable! $55 in three years!
How is this not a national scandal?
2005-09-03 15:07 | User Profile
...the Cryptocracy directs our anger and disgust at the pillage by black paupers. But what of the pillage, on a global scale, by white collars?
There is just something about raping babies that leaves a particularly bad impression.
2005-09-03 16:50 | User Profile
Right On! What an eminently sensible riposte!
What I find truly remarkable and more than worthy of praise, are the noble actions of the few who pitched-in with whatever resources they had to help other people out. Somebody's still teaching this public-mindedness to their kids - but every kid should know it.
What one or two DO, actually counts for more than all the 'official' relief services' efforts put together.
Job one for the 'security' services semed to be protecting themselves. Job 2, protecting property - the un-flooded kind.
I din't see any signs of organization among those trapped in the stadium. Maybe this is the effect of the new 'enslavement' of the black - diminish him, or allow/encourage him to debase himself until he's totally dependent and reliant on 'society'. Those folk could have done more to help themselves rather than preying on each other.
As far as 'looting' goes - what are you going to do with stolen TV's and no electricity? Where are you going to put your stuff in a flooded city? Who wants to buy a cheap appliance when you need food and water? I'll bet most of the 'looting' involved the latter - too bad the owners didn't stick around to unlock their doors or even sell the stuff. One guy did - at the same price he had before the storm.
I'll wait to hear more about 'raping babies' - I'm surprised there was no cannibalism reported. I'll bet the reporter of the former story was comfortably ensconced in front of his TV.
2005-09-03 17:30 | User Profile
Welcome to OD, Popsig.
2005-09-03 18:06 | User Profile
IR [QUOTE] Man! Why did I not buy Halliburton? That is un-friggin-believable! $55 in three years! [/QUOTE] This reminds me of something I heard yesterday. It seems that some enterprisng folks have descended on Baton Rouge and have been buying up lots of houses,40-50 at a time. Whose says you can't make money off someone else's misery? I consider these folks to be the white collar equivilent of the looters we have seen.
2005-09-03 18:35 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]The buck stops here: homosexuals and blacks are not particularly to blame; the main fault is in our own rotten, hypocritical selves, and the leaders we follow precisely because, deep down inside, we know they embody the same decay and corruption that we do, and the last thing we want is to be challenged to change. We prefer to use our presidents and politicians to give us the cover we need to stay the same. The evil is always "out there," never within.
It's not just New Orleans that needs cleansing.[/QUOTE]
Hoffman really comes off as a screeching Leftist here with his attempt to excuse homosexuality. It does not follow that to condemn a behaviour is to make oneself feel 'superior'. Christians have the moral right and duty to judge and condemn actions that are contrary and/or violate God's Law.
As for homosexuality and the consequences for the community that accepts it, the Biblical record of such speaks for itself.
2005-09-03 18:42 | User Profile
I think Hoffman is making a valid point on how Christians must be really careful not to fall into double standards when fighting against the sodomite plague. For one thing, God doesn't give the power of the Spirit for hypocrites.
After all, let us consider whether all Christian anti-fag activists who firmly oppose fag marriage would also be ready to struggle as fiercely against the legislation that permits marrying-divorcing-marrying again roulette that is now allowed all over the Western world?
(Hal Lindsey has his fourth marriage going:
[url]http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/lindsey/lindsey.htm[/url]
Holy Scriptures oppose serial adultery just as much (well, almost) as sodomy.
Petr
2005-09-03 18:50 | User Profile
Who was "judge not, lest ye be judged" directed at then? Pagans? Luciferians?
2005-09-03 18:55 | User Profile
I think Hoffman's proving that adage about becoming so open minded that your brains fall out.
2005-09-03 18:57 | User Profile
Hey Hamilton, if you think that Hoffman is some namby-pamby tolerant fag-cuddler, think again.
He is just a person who is allergic to easy cop-outs, just like I do.
Petr
2005-09-03 18:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Who was "judge not, lest ye be judged" directed at then? Pagans? Luciferians?[/QUOTE]
Why don't you tell me, Reverend?
Do you think Christ was advocating moral relativism and societal anarchy when he made that statement?
2005-09-03 18:59 | User Profile
There are too many contenders to direct out anger and disgust. What's wrong with being angered and disgusted with everyone deserving it, rather than endlessly arguing about favorite targets?
2005-09-03 19:02 | User Profile
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=Purple][I][B] - "What's wrong with being angered and disgusted with everyone deserving it, rather than endlessly arguing about favorite targets?"[/B][/I][/COLOR][/FONT]
That would be an "egalitarian" approach, spreading your mental energy all over the place. Wise man tries to figure out the priorities.
Petr
2005-09-03 19:02 | User Profile
I'm inclined to agree with America's Founders. I don't think a guy who whistles at a hot secretary is disgusting on the same level as a homosexual. Oops, I guess I need to get more tolerant.
"[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]1791: The original 13 states ratified the Bill of Rights. By that time, they all treated sodomy as a criminal offense. Connecticut, Delaware, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina had specific sodomy laws in place. Maryland, Georgia, North Carolina, and Virginia had adopted either the common law of England or specific English statues; both criminalized sodomy. "Sodomy was a crime at common law in New Jersey at the time of the ratification of the Bill of Rights. The State enacted its first criminal sodomy law five years later.""
[url]http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_laws1.htm[/url] [/font]
2005-09-03 19:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]After all, let us consider whether all Christian anti-fag activists who firmly oppose fag marriage would also be ready to struggle as fiercely against the legislation that permits marrying-divorcing-marrying again roulette that is now allowed all over the Western world?
All? Maybe not. Most? Yes, I would say so.
Holy Scriptures oppose serial adultery just as much (well, almost) as sodomy.[/QUOTE]
Certain conditions were granted by God to allow for divorce i.e. adultery, because of man's sinful nature. I've not read in the Scriptures any allowances or conditions granted to homosexuality.
2005-09-03 19:05 | User Profile
[COLOR=Red][FONT=Arial][I][B] - "I don't think a guy who whistles at a hot secretary is disgusting on the same level as a homosexual. Oops, I guess I need to get more tolerant." [/B][/I] [/FONT] [/COLOR]
You are caricaturing Hoffman's (and mine) position. Serial adultery (to use my example), the removal of social stigma from divorce, has done very much indeed in eroding and corrupting Western culture and its children.
Petr
2005-09-03 19:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]Serial adultery (to use my example), the removal of social stigma from divorce, has done very much indeed in eroding and corrupting Western culture and its children.[/QUOTE]
Indeed it has and probably a big reason why some folks can call the moral cesspool that was New Orleans a "great city."
2005-09-03 19:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr][color=Red][font=Arial]*** - "I don't think a guy who whistles at a hot secretary is disgusting on the same level as a homosexual. Oops, I guess I need to get more tolerant." *** [/font] [/color]
You are caricaturing Hoffman's (and mine) position. Serial adultery (to use my example), the removal of social stigma from divorce, has done very much indeed in eroding and corrupting Western culture and its children.
Petr[/QUOTE] Sorry, wasn't trying to caricature your position, I didn't even know you agreed with Hoffman. I disagree with his argument that faggotry is on the same moral plane as other vices. It's not. Every class of antisocial behavior has to be evaluated on a case to case basis. For those who believe in the Bible, it couldn't be more clear that faggotry is even worse than murder. In the Bible, when did God ever destroy an entire metropolis over murder? For the record, one doesn't even have to be a believer to see that faggotry is uniquely destructive to western society. Just ask me.
As for rising adultery and divorce, these stem from an erosion of patriarchy, in the traditional sense of fathers' authority. Feminists won't tell you this, but women cheat probably more than men and with more devastating results. Why is this happening? Because when fathers are no longer respected, their daughters' self-control goes out the window. Fathers need to be firm in charge, that means reasserting community in the framework of traditional western norms. We need to use the state to defend community, rather than destroy it.
2005-09-03 19:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Why don't you tell me, Reverend?
Do you think Christ was advocating moral relativism and societal anarchy when he made that statement?[/QUOTE]
Please...I had the Good Book shoved down my gizzard in my childhood same as most others here. I realize [I]now[/I] that Christ came only to minister to the smug and the self-righteous, so someone like me has no right even to [I]quote [/I] it, but back then, I used to think that proverb - along with "Let he who is without sin..." - meant pretty much what they said. I also thought it might've been somewhat related to "rendering unto Caesar".
I know better now. Why would God have intended the Bible to be a literal narrative - a model of clarity that anyone could read and grasp? That's like opening a country club that'll let [I]anybody [/I] in.
I learn lots of stuff like that here.
2005-09-03 21:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]I realize [I]now[/I] that Christ came only to minister to the smug and the self-righteous, so someone like me has no right even to [I]quote [/I] it...I learn lots of stuff like that here.[/QUOTE]
Cracka', please. Spare me.
Those who knee-jerkingly label others as smug and self-righteous are almost without exception every bit as smug and self-righteous, just about different things.
2005-09-03 21:47 | User Profile
You're right Tex, it's actually quite Pharisaical to call other people Pharisees.
A secular version of this are intolerant proponents of tolerance or anti-white antiracists. Neutrality is an illusion.
Petr
2005-09-03 22:06 | User Profile
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=Blue][B][I] - "As for rising adultery and divorce, these stem from an erosion of patriarchy, in the traditional sense of fathers' authority."[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT]
Hamilton, by "serial adultery" I meant the modern tendency of people to divorce and remarry, which the Bible calls adultery. If the father shows bad example by dumping his wife and taking a younger one, children are going to get an unmistakable impression on what values they are really supposed to follow.
[COLOR=Blue][FONT=Arial][B][I] - "For the record, one doesn't even have to be a believer to see that faggotry is uniquely destructive to western society."[/I][/B][/FONT][/COLOR]
Unfortunately this isn't all that clear to many people, not the least to antiquity-admiring neo-pagans. (Pederasty was amazingly mainstream stuff in ancient Greece)
Petr
2005-09-03 22:17 | User Profile
You're right Tex, it's actually quite Pharisaical to call other people Pharisees.
It's easier to call them Pharisees by noting how Pharisaical it is to do that.
How 'bout it, Tex...what did 'judge not' and 'casting the first stone' mean exactly? A direct order to judge and cast stones?
2005-09-03 22:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]How 'bout it, Tex...what did 'judge not'...mean exactly? A direct order to judge...?[/QUOTE]
I would suggest you read on to verse 6.
Then go back to Matthew 1:1, start over and read it all again.
2005-09-04 00:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr][url="http://www.revisionisthistory.org/thebasket.html"]http://www.revisionisthistory.org/thebasket.html[/url] [font=Georgia] [size=3]This is exactly where the System wants our minds fixated. As the deadly poisonous benezene and heavy metals from all the poorly regulated and monitored chemical polluters in Louisiana get dumped by the millions of gallons into the Gulf of Mexico, as Halliburton stock zooms from $8.60 a share (in early 2002, when the oil economy was depressed), to yesterday, when it hit $63.44, setting a record for the first time since 1997, the Cryptocracy directs our anger and disgust at the pillage by black paupers. But what of the pillage, on a global scale, by white collars?
It's not just New Orleans that needs cleansing[/size].[/font][/QUOTE] Very powerful points, for me. I can't comment on the religious stuff, as reality is my religion, but his point about the environment is priceless. White humanity - and all of humanity - needs a cleansing.
2005-09-04 13:12 | User Profile
Ragno, 'Judge not, lest ye be judged' refers to the danger of playing God by presuming to judge the state of someone's eternal soul. Who's going to heaven, who's going to hell? It's not for us to say. Each of us must work out our own salvation. The verse does not command us to make no moral distinctions whatsoever just to make sure we are not 'judging' anyone. None of the Church Fathers interpreted Jesus to be saying that we should be indifferent to killing babies, or raping women, or robbing our fellow man.
2005-09-04 18:16 | User Profile
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=DarkRed][I][B] - "Each of us must work out our own salvation."[/B][/I][/COLOR][/FONT]
Ehrm, NO, NO, NO - this sound awfully like Pelagianism. All the work [B]required[/B] has already been done by Jesus Christ.
Petr
2005-09-04 18:25 | User Profile
Hoffman is a jerk!
2005-09-04 18:46 | User Profile
What an intelligent response. Let the woman be silent in the congregation, if she doesn't have anything better to say.
Petr
2005-09-04 20:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]What an intelligent response. Let the woman be silent in the congregation, if she doesn't have anything better to say.
Petr[/QUOTE]Scratch Gabby, and you'll find a Femenshevik under the surface, she doesn't believe in bridling her tongue. Goes against her inner grain. She doesn't understand why women can't hold the Priesthood, God's plan escapes her. :biggrin:
2005-09-04 21:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]What an intelligent response. Let the woman be silent in the congregation, if she doesn't have anything better to say.
Petr[/QUOTE]
OK, how about this, moron? Hoffman is a secert jew. :cowboy:
2005-09-04 21:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE=6KILLER]Scratch Gabby, and you'll find a Femenshevik under the surface, she doesn't believe in bridling her tongue. Goes against her inner grain. She doesn't understand why women can't hold the Priesthood, God's plan escapes her. :biggrin:[/QUOTE]
Silence, duckie! :ninja:
2005-09-05 01:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr][font=Arial][color=DarkRed] - "Each of us must work out our own salvation."[/color][/font]
Ehrm, NO, NO, NO - this sound awfully like Pelagianism. All the work required has already been done by Jesus Christ.[/QUOTE] 'To work out one's salvation with fear and trembling' is a phrase commonly used by Orthodox and Catholics, and it is not Pelagianism. However, I really don't feel like getting into that, since it is not even remotely close to the topic of this thread.
2005-09-05 07:45 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle]OK, how about this, moron? Hoffman is a secert jew. :cowboy:[/QUOTE] Proof? You got the easy part done i.e. you said it. It would appear from your post, that spelling was your subject in grade school, Gabby. :caiphas:
2005-09-05 07:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]Ragno, 'Judge not, lest ye be judged' refers to the danger of playing God by presuming to judge the state of someone's eternal soul. Who's going to heaven, who's going to hell? It's not for us to say. Each of us must work out our own salvation. The verse does not command us to make no moral distinctions whatsoever just to make sure we are not 'judging' anyone. None of the Church Fathers interpreted Jesus to be saying that we should be indifferent to killing babies, or raping women, or robbing our fellow man.[/QUOTE]This is the right interpretation.
Jesus also frowned on people punishing others for victimless crimes, such as adultery.
The New Testament makes clear that the proper position of a Christian is to worry about his own salvation in a spirit of humility. "Take the plank out of your own eye before trying to get the speck out of your neighbor's eye," to paraphrase Jesus. But many or most Christians (not saying you, Q) would rather spend time worrying about what others do because it makes them feel better about themselves.
2005-09-05 08:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]'To work out one's salvation with fear and trembling' is a phrase commonly used by Orthodox and Catholics, and it is not Pelagianism.[/QUOTE]That's right. It comes straight from Paul.
2005-09-05 09:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=6KILLER]Proof? You got the easy part done i.e. you said it. It would appear from your post, that spelling was your subject in grade school, Gabby. :caiphas:[/QUOTE]
How’s your boyfriend doing? :yes:
2005-09-05 18:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle]Howââ¬â¢s your boyfriend doing? :yes:[/QUOTE] I wouldn't know, as I don't have a boyfriend. My wife and five children are doing fine, thank you. How's your soul-mate klunt doing, rumor has it, that she banned you from $tormfront, or was it her junior Gofer MudDik, that did the honors? :eek:
2005-09-05 23:43 | User Profile
Please stop messing this thread (nay, this whole forum) with this juvenile crap, both of you.
Petr
2005-09-06 01:11 | User Profile
I just think it’s really, really neat how you stand behind him so closely. Now that is true friendship… I really admire you for that. :smile:
Here is a little :evil: for you.
2005-09-06 15:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]Hey Hamilton, if you think that Hoffman is some namby-pamby tolerant fag-cuddler, think again.
He is just a person who is allergic to easy cop-outs, just like I do.
Petr[/QUOTE] So, Petr, you believe that every sperm cell deserves a name? Please explain to me nocturnal emissions on a theological basis. Is it considered, involuntary manslaughter? Uh, oh, thou shalt not kill. No, it's thou shalt commit no murder.
Hoffman's worship of sperm suggests to me that he is a pole smoker, yelling loudly to misdirect attention from his buggery. It is not a new trick, accusing others to divert attention away from one's own sins or shortcomings, eh?
AE
2005-09-06 15:57 | User Profile
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=Indigo][I][B] - "Hoffman's worship of sperm suggests to me that he is a pole smoker, yelling loudly to misdirect attention from his buggery."[/B][/I][/COLOR][/FONT]
Oh please, this is moronic prejudice [I]par excellence[/I], talking evil of someone you don't really know. Hoffman is married with something like half a dozen children:
[url]http://www.revisionisthistory.org/persona.html[/url]
Petr
2005-09-06 16:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr][font=Arial][color=indigo] - "Hoffman's worship of sperm suggests to me that he is a pole smoker, yelling loudly to misdirect attention from his buggery."[/color][/font]
Oh please, this is moronic prejudice par excellence, talking evil of someone you don't really know. Hoffman is married with something like half a dozen children:
[url="http://www.revisionisthistory.org/persona.html"]http://www.revisionisthistory.org/persona.html[/url]
Petr[/QUOTE]Sure. THere has never been a closet homo married, unhappily, with children.
I take it you missed the explicit sarcasm I intended, which means my prose was not up to the test, so that is bad on me.
One on point you are exactly correct: I don't know Hoffman from a hole in the ground. After reading his BS, I am pleased not to have ever made his acquaintance.
By all means, follow your false prophet. I will see you in Hell. :biggrin:
AE
2005-09-06 16:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angeleyes] One on point you are exactly correct: I don't know Hoffman from a hole in the ground. After reading his BS, I am pleased not to have ever made his acquaintance.
By all means, follow your false prophet. I will see you in Hell. :biggrin: [/QUOTE] I must defend Hoffman here. He has espoused some wild ideas, and I don't fully agree with his article here, but some of his writing is quite good. Judaism's Strange Gods is an excellent book.
2005-09-06 16:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]I must defend Hoffman here. He has espoused some wild ideas, and I don't fully agree with his article here, but some of his writing is quite good. Judaism's Strange Gods is an excellent book.[/QUOTE] OK, Petr and Quantrill, I am eating my sneaker. I think I'll add some picante sauce to improve the flavor. :blush:
Until I have read more than that rant by Hoffman, I'll shut about him.
AE
2005-09-06 16:27 | User Profile
Hoffman's THEY WERE WHITE AND THEY WERE SLAVES is important history and an excellent resource. But that doesn't mean he walks on water.
2005-09-06 17:54 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Hoffman's THEY WERE WHITE AND THEY WERE SLAVES is important history and an excellent resource. But that doesn't mean he walks on water.[/QUOTE] In 1982 I picked up a hitch hiker near Atlanta. We were headed to Virginia. We talked a bit, and he eventually revealed that he was a medic, a combat medic, in Viet Nam. He was a draftee. White guy.
Here is a sense of his comments about the draft.
"Well it was slavery. I was forced, by the force of the law, to either go to a war or go to jail. No choice of mine. Slavery in arms."
Up until that point in my life, I had never considered the draft from that perspective.
AE
2005-09-06 18:24 | User Profile
That's the libertarian slogan: "taxation is theft, and draft is slavery."
Petr
2005-09-06 20:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]That's the libertarian slogan: "taxation is theft, and draft is slavery."[/QUOTE] Drafting people for unnecessary or downright imperialistic foreign wars is certainly a form of enslavement. But actual defense of one's country against attack is a duty, so a draft can be justified if it's needed for that purpose.
As for taxation, I think in this day and age at least some form of it is needed to maintain a smoothly-functioning society. Much of the money we pay in taxes is stolen (e.g., anything sent to Israel or other foreign nations), while another fraction of it is justified because everyone benefits from it (upkeep of infrastructure, etc.).
A lot of libertarian ideas make very good sense in general terms, but many libertarians take them to extremes and lose credibility as a result.
Anyway, I don't mean to derail this thread....