← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · il ragno
Thread ID: 19805 | Posts: 39 | Started: 2005-08-24
2005-08-24 11:07 | User Profile
The dirty little secret of American Christianity isn't the Christian Zionists, who are being written and spoken of with greater frequency these days, but the link between C-Z and the [I]following [/I] foofaraw. I've yet to encounter a 'paleocon' who will ever admit to Con-man Christianity as being any more significant than the most minor of speed-bumps on the faith superhighway....even though the OD-style Christian Nationalists represent no more than a tiny minority in their own congregations, whereas these people congregate in massive numbers in stadia and 'churches' the size of aircraft hangars throughout the land, are on tv 24 hours a day on multiple networks, take their 'crusades' all over the world and - more and more often - find Christian Zionism to be a profitable adjunct to their own shell games.
[url]http://www.souldevice.org/cults_wordfaith.htm[/url]
[SIZE=4]Word of Faith Movement [/SIZE]
[I]Introduction[/I]
Otherwise known as "Positive Confession," "the Health & Wealth Gospel," or "Name It and Claim It," the Word Faith group is more properly called a movement rather than a cult. There is no official doctrine, writings, headquarters, or even (technically) a founder. It is a fairly tight group of teachers and pastors who adhere, however loosely, to a set of heterodox and heretical beliefs concerning many areas of the Christian faith. Although not all Word Faith teachers are united in what they believe, The Word Faith basically teaches the following,: Christians are"little gods," Jesus paid for our sins in hell, we can change reality through our words, and that God wants us healthy and wealthy.
There is so much material on this movement I will not attempt to duplicate it here. For the best documentation on the subject I recommend the following books:
[U]D. R. McConnell: A Different Gospel[/U]
[U]Hank Hanegraaff: Christianity In Crisis and Counterfeit Revival (both Book AND Tapes)[/U]
[I]History[/I]
E. W. Kenyon, born in the 1860's, began his spiritual life as a Methodist but eventually moved into Pentecostalism. He became immersed in Unitarian false teachings and combined these elements with those of Phineas Quimby's mind science cults and New Thought theology. New Thought teaches that correct thinking and believing accompanied by positive confession has the power to change reality, health, wealth, or sickness. It also teaches the deity of man. Many of the phrases popularized by present-day prosperity preachers, such as "What I confess, I possess," were originally coined by Kenyon. Thus, it was not charismaticism that spawned this new heresy - but it provided the soil in which it grew.
In the 1960's the acknowledged "granddaddy" of Word Faith theology Kenneth Hagin (after various visions and bizarre experiences) plagiarized Kenyon's writings verbatim and popularized them. Kenneth Copeland stepped into Hagin's shoes and the movement spread. Others now involved in the faith movement include:
Kenneth Hagin, Jr. Kenneth and Gloria Copeland Fred Price John Hagee Jesse Duplantis Keith Butler Jerry Savelle Charles Capps Norvel Hayes Benny Hinn Joel Osteen Robert Tilton Lester Sumrall John Avanzini Marilyn Hickey Buddy Harrison Morris Cerullo Eddie Long Rod Parsley Creflo Dollar David Yonggi Cho
[I]False Doctrine[/I]
[U]God[/U]
Word-Faith teachers claim that God operates by spiritual laws and is obligated to obey the commands of believers. Faith teachers also make God into a large man.
[QUOTE]"I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is...The biggest one in the whole Bible is God...I mean, He lost His top-ranking, most anointed angel; the first man He ever created; the first woman He ever created; the whole earth and all the fullness therein; a third of the angels, at least - that's a big loss, man....Now, the reason you don't think of God as a failure is He never said He's a failure." (Kenneth Copeland, Audio-Clip)
"If you stood Adam upside God, they look just exactly alike....If you stood Jesus and Adam side-by-side, they would look and act and sound exactly alike....The image is that they look just alike, but the likeness is that they act alike and they are alike....All of God's attributes, all of God's authority, all of God's faith, all of God's ability was invested in that man." (Kenneth Copeland, Authority of the Believer IV (Fort Worth: Kenneth Copeland Ministries, 1987, audiotape)
"Heaven has a north and a south and an east and a west. Consequently, it must be a planet." (Spirit, Soul and Body I, Kenneth Copeland, 1985, audiotape 01-0601, side 1)[/QUOTE]
[U]Man[/U]
In Word Faith theology, man is a little god, and basically on par with Jesus Christ.
[QUOTE]"I'm going to to tell you what blasphemy is! When God says you are the righteousness of God and you go around talking about, 'I'm unworthy.' That's blasphemy!...Blasphemy is when you go against what God has said about your true self! OOOOh! We are so unworthy! Shut up with that blasphemy!....You are not a sinner saved by grace. You are sons and daughters of the Most High God! You are gods! You are God's reflection on this planet. For you to say that thing is for you to count the blood of Jesus worthless. His blood was sent to cleanse you of your sin and you going around saying that you are still a sinner! What's the matter with you?" (Creflo Dollar, Audio-Clip)
"You don't have a god in you, you are one!" (Kenneth Copeland, The Force Of Love Audiotape,1987)
"And I say this with all respect, so that it don't upset you too bad. But I say it anyway: When I read in the Bible where He says, 'I Am,' I just smile and say, 'Yes, I Am, too." (Kenneth Copeland, "The Believers Voice of Victory," July 9, 1987)
"The believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth." (Kenneth Hagin, "The Incarnation," The Word of Faith, Dec, 1980, 14)
"When you say, 'I am a Christian, you are saying, 'I am mashiach' in the Hebrew. I am a little messiah walking on earth, in other words That is a shocking revelation....May I say it like this? You are a little god on earth running around." (Benny Hinn, Audio-Clip)
We don't want to accept that God calls us gods! Because, if you accept being, don't, don't--I'm not starting a cult! I'm reading Scripture. The Almighty sits in the congregation of His reflection--El (God), who is mighty. Watch this, and we can't accept God calling us small g-o-d. Because if we were given that authority that means that we would have to take responsibility." (Bishop Eddie Long, "You are Mighty," tape)
"Adam was a super-being when God created him. I don't know whether people know this, but he was the first superman that really ever lived. First of all, the Scriptures declare clearly that he had dominion over the fowls of the air, the fish of the sea--which means he used to fly. Of course, how can he have dominion over the birds and not be able to do what they do? The word 'dominion' in the Hebrew clearly declares that if you have dominion over a subject, that you do everything that subject does. In other words, that subject, if it does something you cannot do, you don't have dominion over it. I'll prove it further. Adam not only flew, he flew to space. He was--with one thought he would be on the moon." (Benny Hinn"Praise the Lord" program on TBN, 26 December 1991)[/QUOTE]
[U]Atonement[/U]
Word-Faith teachers cite an alleged spiritual death of Christ in Hell instead of the physical death of Christ on the cross as the means of His atonement. They say Jesus not only bore our sins on Calvary, but took on the nature of Satan.
[QUOTE]"Physical death will not remove sins" (Hagin, The Name of Jesus, 29).
"Do you think that the punishment of our sins was to die on the cross? If that was the case, the two thieves could have paid our price. No, the punishment was to go into hell itself and to serve time in hell separated from God" (K. C. Price, Ever Increasing Faith Messenger, June 1990, 7).
"Just as Adam died spiritually, Jesus died spiritually. . . . When Jesus accepted the sin nature of Satan into His Spirit He cried 'My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?' He was separated from God... He was ushered into the bowels of hell" (Kenneth Copeland, Classic Redemption, 13).
"Spiritual death means having Satan's nature" (Hagin, The Name of Jesus, 31).
"Jesus was born again in the pit of Hell....The Church started when Jesus was born again in the gates of Hell" (Charles Capps, Authority In Three Worlds, pp. 212 -13).
"Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross." (Ken Copeland, Kenneth Copeland Reference Bible, 129)
"There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell." (Joyce Meyer, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make, 37, 1991)
"Ladies and gentlemen, the serpent is a symbol of Satan. Jesus Christ knew The only way he would stop Satan is by becoming one in nature with him. You Say, "What did you say? What blasphemy is this?" No you hear this. . . . Jesus said," I'll be sin. I'll go to the lowest place! I'll go to the origin of it! I won't just take part in it - I'll be the totality of it" when Jesus became sin, Sir he took it from A to Z and said, "no more!" think about this: He became flesh. That flesh might become like him. He became death, so that dying man can live. He became sin, so sinners can be righteous in him. He became one with the nature of Satan, so all those who had the nature of Satan can partake of the nature of God." (Benny Hinn, TBN, December 15, 1990)[/QUOTE]
[U]Positive Confession[/U]
Spoken Word (Rhema), or thought actualization, is commonly known as positive confession. It stresses the inherent power of words and thoughts. Each person can change reality by what he says. Faith is seen as a force that is controlled by words.
[QUOTE]"Faith is a power force. It is a tangible force. It is a conductive force" (Copeland, The Force of Faith, 13).
"You can literally speak things into existence if you believe in your heart. That is a powerful step towards success, prosperity, and riches!" (Robert Tilton, How to be Rich and Have Everything You Ever Wanted, 28)
"...Never, ever, ever go to the Lord and say, 'If it be thy will…' Don't allow such faith-destroying words to be spoken from your mouth. When you pray "if it be your will, Lord," faith will be destroyed. Doubt will billow up and flood your being. Be on guard against words like this which will rob you of your faith and drag you down in despair." (Benny Hinn, Rise And Be Healed, 47-48)
"I'm going to pray the prayer of faith, not one of those, 'Lord if it be thy will' I don't have to pray a prayer of doubt and unbelief!" (Robert Tilton, audio-tape)
"The door was open. Which means you already rich. You decided to live poor! You already healed! You decided to be sick! You already have your family together but you decided to be in chaos! You already have the things that you have confessed but you decided not to receive it!" (Bishop Eddie Long, "Rise To A New Dimension I," International Gathering of Champions 2004)
"How would you feel if I announced to you that if you declared something that it had to happen?" (Bishop Eddie Long, "There's Power in Your Words," Part I, March 2, 2003)
"What do you need? Start creating it. Start speaking about it. Start speaking it into being. Speak to your billfold. Say, 'You big, thick billfold full of money.' Speak to your checkbook. Say, 'You, checkbook, you. You've never been so prosperous since I owned you. You're just jammed full of money." (Marilyn Hickey, Claim Your Miracles, audiotape #186)
"Speak only words of victory concerning your financial harvest. Never speak words of doubt, fear, or destruction. Always keep a firm belief that God can do what He has promised you. Speak only those things that confirm your harvest. Never speak words that will cancel your harvest." (John Avanzini, "30, 60, Hundredfold, Your Financial Harvest Released," page 168)
"Faith is a creative force." (Robert Tilton, Success in Life, May 12, 2004, The Word Network)
"You have been eating your words...If I could just get you to speak prosperity...This is how faith filled faith words work." (Robert Tilton, Success in Life, May 19, 2004, The Word Network)[/QUOTE]
[U]The Health and Wealth Gospel[/U]
Word Faith teachers say that God wills the financial prosperity and healing of every Christian. Obviously, then, when people remain sick or poor it is due to their lack of faith and they are living outside of God's will.
[QUOTE]"You must realize that it is God's will for you to prosper" (Copeland, Laws of Prosperity, p. 51).
"I don't make poor gods! You know why some of you haven't got a financial breakthrough? It's because, first--You ain't recognized who you are. And you don't recognize as a god you have territory. So God cannot release your wealth because you still don't know you have a territory..But just as soon as you realize that, 'I am a god.' And as revelations reveal, 'I am a king.' He is King of kings. He is God of gods! But you know what? Some of you still, you will go to work and mess this up in a testimony. 'I was at church and Bishop Long said--I ain't say you were gods! God said it! Show them the Scripture." (Bishop Eddie Long, "You are Mighty," tape from his ministry)
"I’m sick and tired of hearing about streets of gold. I don’t need gold in heaven, I’ve got to have it now...But if I hear the thing one more time of how it will be and how it was, I'm gonna kick somebody." (Benny Hinn, Praise the Lord Show, Trinity Broadcasting Network, Dec. 9, 1990)
"You can have what you say! In fact, what you are saying is exactly what you are getting now. If you are living in poverty and lack and want, change what you are saying. It will change what you have...Discipline your vocabulary. Discipline everything you do, everything you say, and everything you think to agree with what God does, what God says, and what God thinks. God will be obligated to meet your needs because of His Word....If you stand firmly on this, your needs will be met." (Kenneth Copeland, The Laws of Prosperity 98, 101)
"John 19 tells us that Jesus wore designer clothes. Well, what else you gonna call it? Designer clothes--that's blasphemy. No, that's what we call them today. I mean, you didn't get the stuff He wore off the rack. It wasn't a one-size-fits-all. No, this was custom stuff. It was the kind of a garment that kings and rich merchants wore. Kings and rich merchants wore that garment." (John Avanzini, "Believers Voice of Victory," TBN, 20 January 1991. Hank Hanegraaff, "Christianity in Crisis" page 381)
"A greater than the lottery has come. His name is Jesus." (John Avanzini, "Praise-A-Thon," TBN April 1991)
"Jesus had a nice house, a big house, big enough to have company stay the night with him at the house. Let me show you His house. Go over to John the first chapter and I'll show you His house...Now, child of God, that's a house big enough to have company stay the night in. There's His house." (John Avanzini, Believer's Voice of Victory, TBN, January 20, 1991)[/QUOTE]
[U]False Prophesy[/U]
Word-Faith teachers are not content spewing out these outrageous and unbiblical teachings. To these they add false prophecies.
[QUOTE]"Now hear this--I'm prophesying this: Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is about to appear physically in some churches and some meetings and to many of his people for one reason--to tell you he's about to show up." (Benny Hinn, Praise-A-Thon, TBN, April 2, 2000)
"The Lord also tells me to tell you in the mid-90’s, about ’94, ’95, no later than that, God will destroy the homosexual community of America. But He will not destroy it with what many minds have thought Him to be. He will destroy it with fire. And many will turn and be saved, and many will rebel and be destroyed." (Benny Hinn, Orlando Christian Center, 12/31/89)
"And there are going to be multiplied millions upon millions, there's going to be close to a billion people that have been trapped in that religion [Islam], that over the next few months are gonna to come into the kingdom of God. (cheering) That's gonna happen, you watch and see what I'm telling you. Because its been ... I'm telling you Satan's fat is in the fire he pushed it over the line, and God has moved, and for over a hundred years the United States has been an instrument of judgment in the hand of God. That's one of the reasons we're blessed, amen? I'd like to get in there and walk around a while but I don't have the time but I can tell you this, that thing has come to an end, its over, I'm talking about Islam and every, all that that stands for. That's over with. Now, God is making His move." (Kenneth Copeland, Word of Life Christian Center, Honolulu HI, Dedication Celebration Service, Evening, Dec. 2, 2001)[/QUOTE]
[U]Terror Tactics[/U]
Word-Faith teachers are called to the table about their incredible mishandling of Scripture and their false prophecies and claims they typically will attack those who question them. They often like to cite Psalm 105:15 ("Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm"), but this passage has nothing to do with challenging the teachings of church leaders.
[QUOTE]"Let me say something else to you and I really don't care if you like this or not. You have attacked me, your children will pay for it." (Benny Hinn, Praise The Lord, TBN, 10/23/1992.)
"You know, I’ve looked for one verse in the Bible, I just can’t seem to find it. One verse that says, ‘If you don’t like ’em, kill ’em.’ I really wish I could find it...Sometimes I wish God would give me a Holy Ghost machine gun — I'll blow your head off!" (Benny Hinn on TBN’s “Praise-A-Thon,” April 1990.)
"Those coming against you will wish they had kept quiet and never attacked a man of God. They do not understand my ways. They have no fear, Hear this, they have no fear of touching the holy thing. Those coming against you will experience my power first hand. They will see and know it is not a light thing to touch mine anointed one!" (Benny Hinn, Praise The Lord, December 29, 2002. Proudly reading a prophecy from Judy in response to Dateline NBC.)
"Do not attack this anointing! Do not attack this anointing, Saith God! For this anointing gives you the power to get wealth." (Robert Tilton, Success in Life, May 12, 2004, The Word Network)
"There are people attempting to sit in judgment right today over the ministry that I'm responsible for, and the ministry that Kenneth E. Hagin is responsible for....Several people that I know had criticized and called that faith bunch out of Tulsa a cult. And some of 'em are dead right today in an early grave because of it, and there's more than one of them got cancer." (Kenneth Copeland, "Why All Are Not Healed", tape)
"Those who attack Kenneth Copeland are attacking the very presence of God." "TBN" June 8, 1992)
"Dear God in heaven I wish I could just—oooh! They call it a ‘ministry,’ my foot! You know I’ve looked for one verse in the Bible, I just can’t seem to find it, one verse that said ‘If you don’t like ‘em, kill ‘em.’ I really wish I could find it!" (Benny Hinn, Audio-Clip)[/QUOTE]
[U]Conclusion[/U]
For the person even remotely familiar with Bible teachings it is enough to simply state word Faith teachings to demonstrate their absurdity. There is enough on these false teachers to fill a website twice the size of Soul Device so I will simply point to some good resources for further research in the Links section.
é Doug Beaumont 2005
2005-08-24 12:37 | User Profile
[FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=Red][B][FONT=Garamond]"I'm going to to tell you what blasphemy is! When God says you are the righteousness of God and you go around talking about, 'I'm unworthy.' That's blasphemy!...Blasphemy is when you go against what God has said about your true self! OOOOh! We are so unworthy! Shut up with that blasphemy!....You are not a sinner saved by grace. You are sons and daughters of the Most High God! You are gods! You are God's reflection on this planet. For you to say that thing is for you to count the blood of Jesus worthless. His blood was sent to cleanse you of your sin and you going around saying that you are still a sinner! What's the matter with you?" (Creflo Dollar, Audio-Clip)
"You don't have a god in you, you are one!" (Kenneth Copeland, The Force Of Love Audiotape,1987)
"And I say this with all respect, so that it don't upset you too bad. But I say it anyway: When I read in the Bible where He says, 'I Am,' I just smile and say, 'Yes, I Am, too." (Kenneth Copeland, "The Believers Voice of Victory," July 9, 1987)
"The believer is as much an incarnation as was Jesus of Nazareth." (Kenneth Hagin, "The Incarnation," The Word of Faith, Dec, 1980, 14)
"When you say, 'I am a Christian, you are saying, 'I am mashiach' in the Hebrew. I am a little messiah walking on earth, in other words That is a shocking revelation....May I say it like this? You are a little god on earth running around." (Benny Hinn, Audio-Clip)[/FONT][/B][/COLOR] [/SIZE] [/FONT]
ALLESMÃâCHTIGE GOTT, what insane blasphemies! I have studied the history of heresies, and these men are following all-too-familiar pattern of [B]the deification of man[/B], which was Lucifer's original catch in the first place (" Ye shall be as gods"). Truly there is nothing new under the sun.
Petr
2005-08-24 14:25 | User Profile
[B]Robert Tilton: From downfall to windfall: Living on a prayer[/B] [I]Tilton's ministry reaching out again, raking in millions [/I]
Tulsa World/May 4, 2003 By Ziva Branstetter
More than 10 years after his ministry collapsed in scandal, Robert Tilton is reaching millions of television viewers with his pitches for money, living comfortably in south Florida and maintaining a connection with Tulsa.
Far from shrinking into obscurity, Tilton is reaping millions from his mailing list and daily shows on Black Entertainment Television. He has formed two companies, bought a 50-foot yacht and purchased a $1.3 million piece of oceanfront property in Miami Beach through his company, records show.
And although Tilton's downfall began when prayer requests sent to him were thrown away in Tulsa trash Dumpsters, prayer requests sent to his Tulsa post office box two years ago were apparently still being discarded. A woman who spent two days opening mail to Tilton told the Tulsa World that she and other workers were instructed to remove the cash and checks and throw away the letters and prayer requests written to Tilton.
Tilton did not return calls seeking comment. In a letter to the Tulsa World, he wrote: "For years, we have taken great care to assure that all prayer requests are delivered to me personally and prayed over by me. Written instructions are always given with each communication by this ministry to ensure that prayer requests are to come to me personally."
James Ferris, a Tulsa attorney who has helped Tilton set up several business ventures, declined to answer questions regarding Tilton:
"I'm not a very good PR person, and you know how lawyers are about confidentialities. I'm not sure how much I could tell you. Everything I would have to say about the ministry would be good, of course."
A longtime business partner, Dan Moroso, also refused to discuss Tilton. Moroso said he had not done business with Tilton "in a long, long time."
Moroso is listed as the vice president of Liberator Productions, a Miami, Fla., company, in a filing dated May 29, 2002, and Tilton is listed as the president of the for-profit company. Property records show Moroso lives several blocks away from the home Tilton is building in Miami Beach.
Tulsa attorney Gary Richardson filed several lawsuits against Tilton on behalf of people who had filmed testimonials or donated money to Tilton. One of the suits resulted in a $1.5 million verdict against Tilton but was reversed on appeal.
"He's a great communicator and very effective at touching people in their emotions and motivating them," Richardson said. "He's an enjoyable person to be around, but you just want to keep your hands on your pocketbook."
Richardson said Tilton's followers are often in desperate situations.
"The people that these guys so often attract are people that are going under for the third time. If you looked up and saw a straw on the surface of that water, you would still reach for the straw."
Brain-eating rats In 1991, ABC-TV's "PrimeTime Live" program reported that Tilton's Word of Faith World Outreach Center Church, then based in Dallas, was making $80 million a year from followers through its direct mail campaign. At the time, Tilton's television show, "Success-N-Life," was broadcast by 200 stations nationwide and his church claimed 10,000 members. "PrimeTime Live" suggested Tilton's ministry engaged in mail fraud and showed contributors' letters, many of them requests for help, in a trash Dumpster outside Commercial Bank of Tulsa. A Tulsa recycler said he also found thousands of prayer requests for Tilton's ministry among the waste sent to him by a company that handled Tilton's mail.
The program sparked an investigation by the Texas attorney general and numerous lawsuits. Stations canceled Tilton's television program until it eventually went off the air.
He divorced his first wife, Marte Tilton, in 1993, and married evangelist and former beauty queen Leigh Valentine the following year.
Two years later, his first wife sued for more than $1 million and his marriage to Valentine ended in a bitter public feud. Valentine alleged Tilton, in a drunken rage, verbally abused her, claimed he was the pope and thought rats were eating his brain. She eventually lost her claim to church assets.
Tilton has since married a Florida woman, Maria Rodriguez.
Tilton sold his Dallas church in 1999 for $6.1 million. At the time, headlines dubbed Tilton a "beleaguered TV preacher" and news coverage portrayed a man beset by marital and financial problems. But he was already well into his comeback.
During testimony in his divorce from Valentine, Tilton testified that he was bringing in about $800,000 per month and living aboard a $450,000 yacht in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. Records show the 50-foot yacht, named the Liberty Leigh, was registered to Tilton.
Tilton returned to the air in 1997, buying time on independent television stations in several large cities. The following year, his program began airing on Black Entertainment Television.
Tilton's show airs on the network for one hour each morning at 3 a.m, as well as 6:30 a.m. on Mondays and 10 p.m. Sundays. The network said it has a potential audience of 74 million homes, although it had no figures on individual viewership of Tilton's show.
Ole Anthony, the founder of the religious watchdog group the Trinity Foundation, said Tilton pays $50,000 per month for the air time. The foundation, based in Dallas, was largely responsible for exposing Tilton's practices in 1991.
Anthony estimates that Tilton's ministry is grossing $24 million a year and that most of his shows are reruns or repackaged versions of older shows.
"With no production costs, a fraction of his former TV time budget, his net must rival that of the good old days with absolutely no effort on his part," Anthony said.
"The purpose of all of it, including the prayer line, is to get names and addresses, which are the key to successful direct mail."
Tilton's Miami, Fla., studio has an ancient Rome theme, complete with faux stone pillars and vine-covered walls, piles of faux boulders, urns and other artifacts.
The shows feature testimonials from working-class people who say they experienced a financial turnaround after giving hundreds or even thousands to Tilton. During one recently aired show, Tilton, clad in a tailored brown suit, urges viewers to make a financial "vow" to his ministry even if they are in debt.
"Anyone can give when things look good, but when you give out of want, when things don't look good . . . it releases faith," he says.
Tilton exhorts viewers toward the end of his show to make a $1,000 vow because "my God is going to supply your need.
"Thank God we have freedom of religion in America, that I can boldly proclaim these powerful truths to you."
As the show continues, Tilton reads the names and hometowns of viewers who have called to pledge money. At the end of the program, a gospel singer performs while Tilton sits at an imposing stone desk nearby. Tilton gleefully claps his hands as an assistant hands him stacks of yellow pledge sheets.
Those who call a toll-free number broadcast on his show and give their address are placed on the ministry's mailing list. They receive two or three mailings from Tilton each month.
Tilton's mailings promise a financial windfall from God if the recipient will only donate to his ministry. Some letters request specific amounts, such as $200. Many mailings contain trinkets such as packets of anointing oil, miracle bracelets, prayer cloths and large posters of Tilton grimacing in prayer.
The mailings request that do nations and prayer requests be sent to a Tulsa post office box.
Two years ago, employees who opened the mail were instructed to remove the money and throw out the letters and prayer requests, according to a Tulsa woman. Patricia Morrow said she worked for Mail Services Inc. for two days in 2001, opening letters addressed to "Rev. Tilton" and taking out the cash.
Morrow, 63, said she got the job through an employment agency. Morrow said she worked for two days in the basement of the Kennedy Building in an old bank vault opening hundreds of letters. The building at 321 S. Boston Ave. is the same address where Tilton prayer requests were found in Dumpsters in 1991.
"They were all addressed to this Rev. Tilton," Morrow said of the letters she opened.
"You're sat down in a cubicle and given a letter opener. You have bundles and bundles of mail and a trash bin beside you. You slice open the envelope, take the money out and throw the letter away in the bin."
She said another employee came by to empty the trash bins regularly and a manager collected the cash and checks from employees who opened the letters.
"The bins are picked up and emptied into trash sacks and put into a special room. They weren't there the next day."
Morrow said there was no attempt to keep the letters together and it was apparent that no one planned to read them. But Morrow read many of them during her two days with Mail Services Inc.
"You cannot help but read them," she said. "All these letters were like, 'Pray for me,' because they were terminal or their son is terminal or there was no money for food . . . desperate situations."
She said nearly all of the letters she opened were from rural Florida or rural Georgia and they often contained cash in odd amounts.
"There would be like $17, and the letter would say, 'I realize I have to give $2 more than I usually give.' "
She described the letter writers as lonely homebound people in rural areas wanting help from God.
Morrow said there were about a dozen other women opening mail and several told her that employees were expected to open enough letters to produce $1,000 per hour.
"It was an unstated criteria that you open enough envelopes to generate $1,000 an hour. It was unbelievable, literally unbelievable."
After opening the letters for two days, Morrow said she told a manager at her employment agency that she had concerns about what was going on there.
"I told her that it was getting to me about these letters and could she find me another job?"
Morrow said she was then told to leave Mail Services' office immediately and not finish the work day.
Officials at the Kennedy Building would not comment on whether Tilton's mail was still being opened there.
Tilton is still listed as pastor of a small church, Church Triumphant, that meets in an office building in Farmers Branch, Texas. During worship services last Sunday, about 70 people attended and sang for an hour while a four-member church band played.
Bob Wright preached a sermon focusing on prosperity. Wright, who also operates a used-car dealership in Dallas, said that he had faith that God would send people to Wright's car lot.
A woman who attended the service said Tilton preached at the church about one year ago and she was unsure when he would return.
Property records list the owner as Church Triumphant and list the same Tulsa post office box used by Tilton for several for-profit corporations. Wright did not return calls seeking comment.
Anthony said Tilton maintains an affiliation with the church so that he can maintain his organization's tax-exempt status as a church and avoid filing financial returns.
"Their moral code is not the Bible. Their moral code is the IRS code," Anthony said.
Miami Beach property In addition to operating his ministry, Tilton has formed several for-profit companies in Florida and Oklahoma, records show. Tilton formed Venetian Way Holdings Inc. three years ago. The company lists its address as 320 S. Boston Ave., the address of Ferris, Tilton's Tulsa attorney. According to its incorporation papers, the company exists to hold title to property for a tax-exempt organization.
Records show Venetian Way Holdings paid $1.39 million for a 12,000-square-foot lot on an island fronting the Biscayne Bay in Miami Beach two years ago.
Building permits have been issued for a two-story, single-family home with a tile roof, pool, spa and terraced deck. The holding company takes its name from the street on which the home sits: Venetian Way.
Tilton listed himself as owner of the property in a building permit request for a burglar alarm.
Tilton also formed Liberator Productions Inc. three years ago, with Moroso as vice president and Barbara Miller of Tulsa, as secretary-treasurer. The company lists a Tulsa post office box as its address.
Mail-order faith comes with accessories
Trinkets -- including oil, a bracelet and the "Green Financial Prayer Cloth" -- are supposed to bring wealth. God wants to make you rich, promises "Pastor Bob" Tilton, and Tilton will send you financial prayer cloths, posters of himself, packets of oil and other trinkets to make it happen.
Those who send money to Tilton's ministry through his daily shows on Black Entertainment Television wind up on his massive mailing list. His mailings, several each month, urge recipients to send money to Tilton's Tulsa post office box.
Letters are personalized, with the recipient's first name and hometown sprinkled throughout. All are signed "Bob" in handwriting and "Pastor Bob Tilton" underneath.
Here are excerpts from several recent mailings:
Feb. 22: "I've sent you this packet of oil to help you release your faith for your emergency miracle," states the letter. "Use it to anoint whatever represents your Emergency Crisis. If it's a financial crisis, anoint your wallet or billfold or checkbook."
The letter ends by asking for a "sacrificial gift of $20 or the largest gift you can possibly give even if you have to scrape the bottom of your meal barrel."
March 1: A thick mailing includes a large poster of Tilton with one hand raised and his eyes closed tightly, surrounded by 21 squares marking a calendar. The mailing includes 21 stickers that recipients are to peel off and affix each day to the poster. It also includes a red "prayer of agreement miracle cloth" and three forms that recipients can return along with financial donations during each week of the 21-day prayer "campaign."
Tilton is pictured throughout the mailing grimacing in prayer, on his knees praying and clutching a red cloth and praying.
"Take the enclosed poster of me and my hand and put it up on your refrigerator or a mirror . . . somewhere so that you'll see it every day. Then every day for the next 21 days . . . lay your hand on top of mine and agree with me for your miracle," the letter states.
The letter also directs recipients to trace their hand on a "miracle request" form and return it with the red prayer cloth. Tilton promises to take the requests and cloths "to my prayer room or my prayer altar on my daily TV program, Success-N-Life."
The letter ends by requesting "your best financial gift as an expression of appreciation."
"You don't buy God but all throughout the Bible, when people came to God with prayer requests, they always brought a quality offering."
March 28: A four-page letter includes a fluorescent pink cotton cord, which Tilton calls an "Ezekiel 16:11 bracelet." The letter instructs recipients to "place this miracle faith bracelet around your right wrist right now.
"I am coming against the spirit of poverty that is trying to cut off your money supply. . . . Get out your largest bill and lay it under this miracle bracelet that I have given you. . . . Give God your biggest and best."
The letter includes a form on which recipients can check off a list of ailments or financial problems and return it to Tilton with their largest bills.
It also includes testimonials from people such as "Earl," who claims his family income jumped from $9,000 per year to more than $94,000 two weeks after his wife began sending money to Tilton.
April 8: "In Jesus' name, I am sending you this Green Financial Prayer Cloth for you to defeat Satan's plan," states the letter, which contains a strip of thin, green fabric.
Recipients are directed to write the date, time and their name on the cloth. "Place this Green Financial Cloth under your pillow and allow God's spirit to rest upon you as you sleep tonight. Tomorrow, remove the Green Financial Prayer Cloth, touch it to your heart, your forehead and your pocketbook."
The letter suggests a financial donation to Tilton of $107, $177 or an amount decided by the recipient. It contains a wish list of items that recipients can check off, including: "a better job," "new clothes," 'a loan" and "a newer car."
April 14: "I must tell you boldly: God wants to make you rich. . . . God wants to make a millionaire out of certain ones who receive this letter. Is it you?"
The letter includes a large slip of paper fashioned into a $1 million bill and a penny glued to the reverse side. The bill includes a checklist of desires, including a new home, new car, a piece of real estate or money for vacation.
"I want you to put a checkmark on the back of the Million Dollar Bill of what you need or desire, and send it back to me, along with a Seed Faith Gift of $200. . . . This ministry has given you spiritual food, so it's time to pay your tithes."
2005-08-24 14:27 | User Profile
[B]The prosperity gospel [/B] [I]The end of the 1980s was a bad time for TV preachers[/I].
St. Louis Post-Dispatch/November 18, 2003 By Bill Smith and Carolyn Tuft
One moment, men like the PTL Club's Jim Bakker and television's Jimmy Swaggart seemed bigger than life, supermen blessed with an uncanny ability to attract followers and money. The next instant, they were only men -- fragile, flawed and the butt of barroom jokes and newspaper cartoons.
In many ways, it seemed like the beginning of the end for big-time TV religion. Look, the critics said, the emperors really do have no clothes.
But Americans, at least many of them, seem to have forgotten and forgiven. TV's salvation shows are still here, bigger and flashier than ever, thanks to the proliferation of the internet and the continued spread of satellite and cable TV.
The names may have changed -- Juanita Bynum, Kenneth and Gloria Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, T. D. Jakes, St. Louis' Joyce Meyer and a dozen others have replaced Bakker, Swaggart and Oral Roberts at the top of the evangelical mountain -- but the message remains virtually identical.
Believe with all your heart and soul, they tell the faithful. And give, give, give until you can't give any more.
God, they say, loves a cheerful giver.
In the late 1980s, when the sex-and-fraud scandals boiled over into America's living rooms, Joyce Meyer's little radio ministry was scarcely a blip on the evangelical radar screen.
Today, Meyer heads a ministry fast approaching $100 million a year and is among a dozen or so evangelical superstars headlining a revived, and very healthy, industry.
The prosperity gospel also has been called the "name it and claim it" theology. God wants His people to prosper, evangelists like Meyer maintain. Those who follow God and give generously to his ministries can have anything, and everything, they want.
But critics, from Bible-quoting theologians to groups devoted to preserving the separation of church and state, abound. At best, they say, such a theology is a simplistic and misguided way of living. At worst, they say, it is dangerous.
Michael Scott Horton, who teaches historical theology at the Westminister Theological Seminary in Escondido, Ca., calls the message a twisted interpretation of the Bible -- a "wild and wacky theology.
"Some of these people are charlatans," Horton said. "Others are honestly dedicated to one of the most abhorrent errors in religious theology.
"I often think of these folks as the religious equivalent to a combination of a National Enquirer ad and professional wrestling. It's part entertainment and very large part scam."
Sociologist William Martin of Rice University said that most people who follow TV religious leaders put so much trust in them that they want them to thrive. Martin is a professor of sociology at the university, specializing in theology.
The preachers' wealth is "confirmation of what they are preaching," Martin said.
Ole Anthony's Trinity Foundation, best-known for working with the national media to uncover questionable activities involving TV evangelists, often resorts to digging through preachers' trash to find incriminating evidence. Anthony said that most of the preachers begin with a "sincere desire to spread the faith. But the pressure of fundraising slowly moves all of them in the direction of a greed-based theology."
Even J. Lee Grady, editor of Charisma & Christian Life magazine has become alarmed at what he sees as the excesses of some TV preachers.
Grady defends the principle that if you are stingy with your money, you will lack things in life; and if you are generous, you will get things in return.
"But that doesn't mean you can treat God like a slot machine," Grady said in an interview.
Bakker, who spent five years in prison for defrauding Heritage USA investors, says he has had a change of heart about the prosperity gospel.
The same man who once told his PTL coworkers that "God wants you to be rich," now says he made a tragic mistake.
"For years, I helped propagate an impostor, not a true gospel, but another gospel," Bakker has said in his 1996 book, "I Was Wrong."
"The prosperity message did not line up with the tenor of the Scripture," he said. "My heart was crushed to think that I led so many people astray."
While Bakker may have changed his tune, many more TV preachers are steadfast in their conviction that if you give money, you will receive it many times in return.
Meyer spends most of her three-day conferences on lessons in giving, and she is blunt when she addresses what the critics say about her seed-faith interpretation of the Bible. She says that those preachers who believe that to be godly is to be poor are the ones who have it wrong.
"Why would He (God) want all of His people poverty stricken while all of the people that aren't living for God have everything?" Meyer said. "I think it's old religious thinking, and I believe the devil uses it to keep people from wanting to serve God."
2005-08-24 14:30 | User Profile
[B]Critics say John Hagee's compensation is too high [/B]
San Antonio Express-News/June 20, 2003 By Analisa Nazareno
Perched atop a red-carpet altar, seated on a wide white and blue throne, Pastor John Hagee waits until the jazz band has quieted, the 125-member choir has left the stage and the soloist has moved the congregation almost to tears.
An emotional, energetic half-hour of song praising the glory of God passes. Then Hagee tells ushers at his 5,000-seat Cornerstone Church to take their positions.
With the dozens of men bearing glinting platters in the aisles, and six cameramen capturing the moment, Hagee instructs church members to hold their money toward the heavens. The thousands repeat after him: "Give and it shall be given."
"When you give, it qualifies you to receive God's abundance," he tells his listeners. "If God gives to you before you give to him, God himself will become a liar. ... If you're not prospering, it's because you're not giving."
"If you're not prospering, it's because you're not giving," he repeats.
For four decades, Hagee's message has motivated his members to give millions to his ministry.
And it is a message that has helped his nonprofit television arm, Global Evangelism Television, become a prosperous, global, moneymaking family enterprise that has netted millions year after year peddling prayer, inspirational books, tapes and the promise of prosperity.
Since Hagee and his wife, Diana Hagee, founded GETV 25 years ago, the organization has gone from a back-room operation broadcasting Sunday sermons to San Antonio area viewers to a 50,000-square-foot multimedia studio broadcasting to 127 television stations and 82 radio stations nationwide.
"God has blessed it until it has literally reached the Earth," Hagee recently said at his studio about his television evangelism enterprise.
Profitable nonprofit According to income tax statements that GETV filed with the Internal Revenue Service, the nonprofit organization drew $18.3 million in revenue in 2001, the most recent year the organization submitted a return to the IRS. That year, Hagee's total compensation package amounted to more than $1.25 million.
Like most nonprofit organizations, GETV is obligated to disclose its finances by making IRS income tax statements, called 990 forms, available to the public. In return for complying, it isn't required to pay income taxes on revenue, business and operation taxes and property taxes. It also receives a discount on bulk mailing.
And it is also able to sell products tax-free and at a 50 percent profit because selling religious books, tapes and albums fits within GETV's broadly stated mission, which is to "spread the gospel of Jesus Christ."
According to the 990 forms for GETV, the organization in 2001 netted $12.3 million from donations, $4.8 million in profit from the sales of books and tapes, and an additional $1.1 million from various other sources, including rental income.
As the nonprofit organization's president, Hagee drew $540,000 in compensation, as well as an additional $302,005 in compensation for his position as president of Cornerstone Church, according to GETV's tax statements.
He also received $411,561 in benefits from GETV, including contributions to a retirement package for highly paid executives the IRS calls a "rabbi trust," so named because the first beneficiary of such an irrevocable trust was a rabbi.
The John Hagee Rabbi Trust includes a $2.1 million 7,969-acre ranch outside Brackettville, with five lodges, including a "main lodge" and a gun locker. It also includes a manager's house, a smokehouse, a skeet range and three barns.
Taken together, his payment package, $842,005 in compensation and $414,485 in benefits, was one of the highest, if not the highest, pay package for a nonprofit director in the San Antonio area in 2001.
Amazing income "I'm amazed at the income," said Pamela Smith, an accounting professor at the University of Texas at San Antonio.
Smith, whose research interests include taxation of nonprofit organizations, said it is fairly common for nonprofit directors to receive what some might perceive are high salaries. Nonprofit directors are allowed to receive competitive salaries, she said. They are not, however, allowed to get a share of profits made from the sales of products or services.
Smith said she wasn't aware of any nonprofit director in San Antonio who earned more than Hagee.
Dr. John Russell earned $361,587 and received $44,974 in benefits as executive vice president of medical affairs for Baptist Health System in 2001. John Brazil, the president of Trinity University, where Hagee received his bachelor's degree in history in 1964, earned $300,000 and received $142,835 in benefits in 2001.
In addition, Hagee's compensation was among the highest pay packages for television evangelists in 2001, according to IRS 990 filings.
Paul Crouch, president of California-based Trinity Christian Center of Santa Ana, received $403,700. His wife, Janice Crouch, earned $347,500 as the vice president for the organization, which broadcasts sermons nationally on the Trinity Broadcasting Network.
Billy Graham earned $174,000 in compensation and $28,403 in employee benefits for his role as director and chairman for the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, which netted $96.7 million in revenue in 2001.
"It's not unprecedented (for ministers to earn a high salary)," said Paul Nelson, president of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, an accreditation group for Christian ministries that monitors the fund-raising practices of its member organizations. "But it is high," Nelson said about Hagee's compensation.
When discussing the finances of GETV and his compensation, Hagee and his wife defended their earnings.
"You're comparing apples to oranges," Diana Hagee said when discussing Graham's compensation and comparing it with her husband's compensation.
"Billy Graham is set up with 400 acres of property, with a house in the middle of it, with a chain-link fence and security dogs around it. His ministry provides all that," John Hagee said while seated in the 'living room" stage set of GETV's Stone Oak studio.
"I provide my own house," he said. "I provide my own insurance. I provide everything for myself."
A representative for the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association said Graham has owned his own home since the 1950s but receives a housing stipend that is folded into his total compensation package. This year, Graham's total compensation package was $190,000, which included a $47,500 housing stipend.
Hagee and his wife are listed in the Bexar County Appraisal District database as owners of their six-bedroom, 5,275-square-foot house in one of San Antonio's most exclusive gated communities, The Dominion. The house, similar in architectural style to the building at Cornerstone Church - classical Greek revival and white with tall pillars reaching from the ground to the roof - is appraised at $688,900.
All in the family Hagee wasn't the only one making money from the enterprise. Diana Hagee received compensation of $67,907 as vice president of GETV and $58,813 as the special events director for Cornerstone Church.
Their son, Matthew Hagee, 24, received a compensation of $10,288 for his role as a director at GETV. And according to the 990 form, one of his daughters earned a salary for serving as the director of publications for GETV.
Matthew and his sisters, Tina and Sandy, make up the John Hagee Family Singers, who also earn royalties from album sales and honoraria for singing at events and get paid through GETV.
Diana, Matthew and John Hagee are listed on the 990 filing as three of four GETV officers, along with the church's chief financial officer, Alan Hulme.
It is a setup that some observers say creates a conflict of interest and allows the officers to determine their own salaries, benefits and other forms of compensation.
"That is a serious, serious problem in accountability," said Ole Anthony, president of Trinity Foundation, a Dallas-based watchdog group that conducts undercover investigations of television evangelists.
Anthony said he and his organization, which operates a victim hot line for people who feel they've been bilked by television ministries, have not received any substantive complaints of fraud about John Hagee Ministries, GETV or Cornerstone Church.
"We have had calls, mostly from disgruntled employees, but not the real extraordinary complaints from someone who's been defrauded," Anthony said. "Usually, we get those complaints from people who've been involved in the healing ministries, the ones that claim to cure illnesses and disease."
But when Anthony learned about Hagee's compensation package and the board's tight family structure, he said the Trinity Foundation might consider conducting an investigation in the future.
"The amount of money he's making is unconscionable for a minister," Anthony said.
Hagee defended his GETV compensation package, saying he earned the money and benefits through speaking fees and "royalties" for book and tape sales and not from individual donors calling the station's prayer line.
"I have no salary here (with GETV), none whatsoever," Hagee said. "What I have is a royalty from products I produce. That's very, very different. And to call that an income would be a misappropriation of terms."
Hagee said John Hagee Ministries buys books that he and his wife have authored at a 78 percent discount from the Thomas Nelson Book Group, a publisher of Christian books in Nashville, Tenn.
Thomas Nelson has published and sold more than 2 million copies of Hagee's various titles, including his latest, a novel called "Avenger of Blood." John Hagee Ministries is selling the book for $19 - a 99-cent discount off of full retail price.
Books, tapes, salvation The organization's 42-page catalog of resources includes books such as his wife's, "The King's Daughter: Becoming the Woman God Created You to Be," which sells for $16. It sells Hagee's taped sermons, such as his six-tape series on the "Final Judgment," a video package selling for $99 or the audio version for $32.
The Web site for John Hagee Ministries offers many of the same books, tapes and opportunities to donate money. It also offers a salvation plan, a prayer and guidance toward reaching salvation by calling GETV's prayer line.
Additionally, for parents seeking to "protect you and your children from the dangers of the Internet," the Web site offers John Hagee Online, an Internet service for $21.95 a month.
With the growth of the Internet over the past five years, John Hagee Ministries has penetrated 83 nations - including Gabon, Greenland, Tanzania and Turkey.
GETV's current computer mailing list includes the names and addresses of 850,000 people who've called the prayer line, made a purchase over the Internet, contributed toward the Operation Exodus campaign to send Zionist Jews to Israel or donated money to support the nonprofit organization's operations.
Saved Inside the TV station, 50 workers buzz daily in the prayer room, a college classroomlike setting with a large brass bell at front. The workers answer the telephone pleas from people seeking divine intervention on everything from a surgery to depression, cancer, a lost child, a bad infection, salvation. They ring the brass bell whenever someone says they've accepted Jesus Christ as their savior.
The calls, about 30,000 a month, come from throughout the nation. And the prayer line workers, volunteers who work in four-hour shifts and get gas money or bus fare, are mostly older women, Cornerstone parishioners from the San Antonio area.
When callers dial the prayer line, these volunteers pray on the spot, pray at the end of the day, and pray every day over five stacks of prayer request forms.
Many of those prayers result in donations. Some of them result in big donations.
The most dedicated contributors are called "Salt Covenant Partners." For their monthly contribution, the volunteers pray for them every day. And the partners have direct access to a toll-free partner prayer line where a partner-relations specialist patches the phone call to Hagee, who then prays for them especially.
Diana Hagee said the prayer line and television ministry have offered hope to millions, including a man she claims stopped his plans of suicide when he turned on the television and heard her husband talking about a new life and new hope.
"So, no matter what the responsibility is, the pressure is always worth it," she said while giving a tour of the TV station.
Worth every dime Because he worked "80 hours a week" writing books, singing songs, meeting international dignitaries and answering the call to preach the word of God, John Hagee said: "I deserve every dime I'm getting."
And while watchdogs and outside observers may feel differently, many of his church members, upon learning about his compensation after services, agreed with Hagee's assessment that he was worth every dime.
"God has given to him because he has given to God," Canyon Lake resident Trampus Smith said. "He's a good man serving a lot of lost souls, and I love him to death. He is my pastor."
Smith, a 38-year-old construction contractor, said he started his Sunday 75-minute commute five years ago to attend the church after having watched GETV's programming from home. He now tithes 10 percent of his income to Cornerstone and has given additional income toward the John Hagee Ministry campaign to move Jewish people to Israel.
Smith said he likes "everything" about attending church at Cornerstone.
"It's more exciting here," said Smith, who grew up attending Lutheran churches. "I learn more here about the Bible. The church has a wonderful choir. And his son Matthew is blessed with a great singing voice."
Alicia Loeffelholz, a retired nurse, said: "I know the reason that he earns what he earns is because God has blessed him. It is powerful to preach the word of God. And because he does, he is going to receive everything he needs and more."
Loeffelholz said she has purchased products from GETV to send to out-of-town relatives and friends who watch his sermons on television.
"We are blessed to have him here in this city," Loeffelholz said.
Conflict of interest But while it may be common for preachers to receive royalty payments for books and other intellectual property, experts on television ministries say that selling books and tapes through the ministry and getting royalty payments from that organization creates a conflict of interest.
"We prohibit any personal profiting on a product that is promoted and marketed with the dollars that have been donated to the ministry," said Nelson, with the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability.
"If the ministry or charity promotes a book written by the leader or senior officer of that organization, the royalty paid by the publisher on the purchase of that material goes to the charity and not the individual," he said.
Additionally, the arrangement with the book sale profits or "royalty payments" being placed in a retirement trust - instead of being counted as ordinary income - created the impression that Hagee was trying to avoid being taxed for ordinary income, an intellectual property rights lawyer said.
"The purpose of the arrangement of the sales this way is that it shifts the income from him, where it would be taxable as ordinary income, to a trust where it would not be taxed as income," said Ronald J. Mann, a professor at the University of Texas School of Law. "As a business lawyer I look at this and say, 'That's clearly what someone is trying to do, someone is not wanting to voluntarily pay a tax.'"
'I'm not afraid.' Faced with questions about his personal finances and the profitability of GETV, Hagee raised his voice and said: "We are hiding absolutely nothing from nobody. I'm not afraid of you. I'm not afraid of the government, but I am afraid of God. And I'm not going to lie to God and go to Hell over this."
Hagee would have little reason to fear the federal government. Other than disclosing their 990 forms, nonprofit organizations have little federal government oversight. Each year, the IRS may examine the tax returns of 1 percent of the 1 million nonprofit organizations that disclose income, according to an IRS spokesman.
So, while the IRS has stringent rules about the disclosure of profits and investments, as well as income requirements for officers, most nonprofit organizations such as GETV will operate virtually tax-free with little scrutiny, if any.
In fact, when the federal government challenged his church's nonprofit status in the mid-1990s, Hagee elicited the help of high-profile lawyers who worked often with Christian enterprises and sued the U.S. Postal Service when it denied his church a nonprofit bulk mail discount.
Hagee's mailings contained advertisements for a sermon series on self-help and a Bible study cruise to Israel. A year after Hagee sued, the postal service settled with him, granted his church the discount on its mailings in 1999 and refunded more than $40,000 in excess postage fees.
Hagee said he was certain his finances complied with IRS requirements because he hired tax lawyers and accountants to make sure that his books complied with tax laws. He said he is prepared for the IRS, if ever it decides to conduct an investigation.
"We said, 'We want a set of books so that when the IRS comes in here and looks they'll say, those people are clean,'" Hagee said. "And I am waiting for the day that the IRS is going to come look at our books. I have spent a chunk of money waiting for them."
2005-08-24 14:32 | User Profile
[B]Bob's back, and more entertaining than ever [/B]
Dallas Morning News/September 25, 2004 By Steve Blow
The new TV season has barely begun, but already I have a new favorite show.
It's Love That Bob.
No, I don't mean the old Bob Cummings Show. I'm talking about the new Bob Tilton show!
Brother Bob is back, and believe it or not, the TV preacher's show is stranger than ever.
Poodles!
Who would have thought that's just what the show needed? Not to mention a singing third wife.
You gotta Love That Bob.
For those new to the fan club, Robert Tilton is a local fellow who roared to fame as an outlandish televangelist in the early '90s. He spoke in tongues, ranted, rebuked and preached prosperity without apology.
At its peak, his Success N Life show was said to bring in $80 million a year.
Then came a bad turn in the mid '90s - prayer requests discovered in trash bins, exposés of his luxurious lifestyle, lawsuits from embittered followers, a couple of divorces and the near collapse of his ministry.
Brother Bob moved to South Florida, taped a batch of new shows and coasted for years as what I called "Robo-Bob." He had a fully automated ministry - rerun shows, a voice-mail prayer line and a postal box to collect the cash.
It was genius but also boring.
Well, hallelujah! Brother Bob is back with fresh shows better than ever.
He now broadcasts primarily on BET - the Black Entertainment Television cable channel. The easiest time to catch him is on Sunday nights at 10, but if you want to set the recorder, he's also on weekdays at 3 a.m.
With that swept-back hairdo and his overtightened face, Brother Bob now looks like he's leaning into a hurricane.
He has been nipped and tucked so much that he now has dimples next to his eyes. No kidding!
But the real star of the show is his new wife, Maria.
Bob was always a solo act. But in the grand tradition of Tammy Faye Bakker and Jan Crouch, Maria is now the weird wife/sidekick.
I don't mean to be tacky, but the woman is just kind of freaky.
She has these spooky eyes and long black-blond-black hair. (Starts out black, turns blond and winds up black again.)
Family moment Bob and Maria share a little sweet talk to start every show. Recent example ...
Bob: "Thank you, honey, for being on the television program with me and making it such a blessing."
Maria (sultry voiced): "Thank you for being so wonderful to me."
Bob (stammering): "Well, I love being wonderful to her. But anyway, honey, uh, we'll leave the rest of this until we get off the air."
Yes, please.
And then there are the dogs - Paris, Eiffel and Stella - three big poodles introduced on each show.
"This is our little girl, Paris, which was our first," Maria said on a recent show. "She was actually thought of in Paris, France, when we were on our honeymoon. Do you remember that square we were having lunch in - having our French onion soup and our french fries?"
Wow - French soup, french fries and French poodles! All they needed was Mr. French serving French's mustard.
In each show, Maria sings. And oh, can she sing!
(No.)
But this is television so bad it's good.
Bob is still preaching that old-time prosperity gospel. "A prophet of prosperity," an "architect of abundance," an "instructor in increase," he calls himself.
And a "babbler of bullcorn," maybe.
Sales pitches In each 30-minute show, he makes about a dozen pitches for viewers to order his free new book - How To Be Rich & Have Everything You Ever Wanted.
Subtle, huh?
Go ahead, order it if you're curious (1-866-797-5959). You just talk to an automated Brother Bob. And that's kind of a hoot.
Of course, ordering the book will also bring an onslaught of gimmicky "urgent" mail designed to get your donations flowing to Brother Bob.
You're too smart to send money. But poor, gullible, desperate people will. Lots of it.
The Dallas-based Trinity Foundation continues to monitor Brother Bob and other TV evangelists.
President Ole Anthony said Trinity's research indicates that Brother Bob will take in $30 million this year.
He said Brother Bob pays himself an annual salary of $1.5 million and lives in an oceanfront home in Miami worth more than $4 million.
You gotta Love That Bob!
Just don't think too much about where the money comes from.
2005-08-24 14:51 | User Profile
[url]http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/tbn.htm[/url]
Is there nothing that TBN or Benny Hinn will not stoop to in order to extract money from viewers? Well, Benny Hinn claimed that Jesus is now physically appearing in Moslem countries, and he predicted on the April 2nd 2000 TBN broadcast that Jesus will appear physically very soon in many churches to signal the nearness of the second coming, and that Jesus would also appear physically on the stage at his crusade in Nairobi Kenya (29th -30th of April, 2000)! He told Paul Crouch he might very well have video of Jesus on the stage when he returned from his trip to Kenya!
[QUOTE]April 2nd, 2000 - TBN Praise-a-thon
"Ladies and gentleman, Jesus is shaking the world! Now something else is happening that is to me awesome! Absolutely awesome! The Lord is physically appearing in the Muslim world. I'm telling you, Paul, I am hearing it now more and more and more. Since we preachers cannot go there, Jesus is - just going there Himself. Since we preachers are not permitted to go in, He is just showing up - Himself. You know the Scriptures says clearly that the Lord did appear, did He not? Ah for forty days, isn't that right? And the, and the, and the Scriptures says he, he, he even, he even appeared to Paul. Now we are always thinking, well Jesus can't really preach, preach the Gospel. Who told you that? He was the first one to preach the Gospel. In fact He is the one who came to Paul and said, Paul, I am Jesus. He, He didn't send no angel to do that job. He did it Himself. If Jesus revealed Himself to Paul, why not reveal Himself to a lot more than just Paul? And He is doing it! The reason the Lord had to appear to Paul is because He knew Paul wouldn't listen to nobody else. Now in the case of Cornelius, the angel said send for Peter, 'cause, because Cornelius was, was ready, his heart was right, he'd been in prayer. But here's Paul killing everybody, causing 'em to blaspheme, Jesus said this man won't even listen to an angel, so I'll go do the job myself. So He went and knocked him right off his horse and preached the Gospel to him. He's doing the same thing today in the Muslim world. He's appearing, hear this, He is appearing to Muslims, saying I am Jesus of Nazareth! And they're coming to know the Lord! Why are those things happening? It's the last days! Saints, this is why we need to give to the Gospel now more than ever. You know naively say well I gave last year. Forget it! Last year it's gone! That cycle is over with! Seed time - harvest of last year is gone. Every season is a fresh season. We are in a fresh season. What, what you gave last year will not reap you anything this year. What you gave even a few months ago is gone, you got the harvest for that."
The failed prophecy that Jesus would appear physically in Nairobi, Kenya:
[QUOTE]April 2nd, 2000 - TBN Praise-a-thon
"The hour is urgent. Many of you have known me for many years. But I am telling you right now, things I haven't said years 'n years 'n years ago. I believe - here this, hear this! I believe, that Jesus, God's Son, is about to appear physically, in meetings and to believers around the world, to wake us up! He appeared after His resurrection and He is about to appear before His second coming! You know a prophetess sent me a word through my wife, right here, and she said 'Tell your husband that Jesus is go'n to physically appear in his meetings.' I am expecting to see, I am telling you that - I feel it's going to happen. I, I, I'm, I'm careful in how I am saying it now, because I know the people in Kenya are listening. I know deep in my soul, something supernatural is going to happen in Nai - in Nairobi Kenya. I feel that. I may very well come back, and you and Jan are coming, to - Paul and Jan are coming to Nairobi with me, but Paul, we may very well come back with footage of Jesus on the platform! You know that the Lord appeared in Romania recently, and there's a video of it? Where the Lord appeared in the back of a church and you see him on video walking down the isle? Yeah! Paul do you remember when I came on TBN years ago and showed you a clip of the Lord appearing in our church in Orlando, on the balcony on the wall? Yeah. You, you remember that? [Paul Crouch] Very well, I saw it! [Benny Hinn] That was '80, 80 something, '86, what - whatever. You know I always wondered why the Lord, why did He do that? Do you know why, now I look back? That was the beginning of the greatest move of God in our church. Because '83, '84, and '85 were horrible years for me, horrible years. Eighty-six the blessings of God began, but they began with a - with this manifestation of the Lord's face on, on the balcony, that stayed for eight weeks. Eight solid weeks! The Lord has done this in the past, but He is about to do it again, now hear this, I am prophesying this! Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is about to appear physically in some churches, and some meetings, and to many of His people, for one reason - to tell you He is about to show up! To Wake Up! Jesus is coming saints! You have held back from the Lord in the past, don't you dare do it now. The day will come you'll stand before Him and give an answer. How dare we not give to God. How dare we hold back."
Benny repeated his claim that Jesus will be appearing physically at his crusade(s) about 10 minutes into the 20 April, 2000 This is Your day program.
[QUOTE]April 20th, 2000 - This Is Your Day
"Ruth Heflin: the Lord spoke to her recently, and she called my wife and told her to tell me, that Jesus said to her, that He will appear physically on the platform in one of our crusades. [Harald Bredesen] My! [Benny] She said, 'Tell Benny, that the Lord told me, that He is going to appear physically, on the platform, and the crowds will see Him, on the platform.' [Harald Bredesen] Jesus! [Benny] Dear God my hair is standing up! [Harald Bredesen] Praise God! [Benny] It may very well happen in Nashville!" ...
"... think about what's going to happen when the people, thousands, she said thousands will see the Lord on the, on the, on the platform! Lord may it happen in every crusade this year in Jesus mighty name."
At the beginning of the April 21st, 2000 This Is Your Day program, Benny again repeated his belief that Jesus would appear physically at the Nairobi Crusade: 21 April, 2000.
[QUOTE] April 21st, 2000 - This Is Your Day
"You know, yesterday on the program I was telling you and the audience here that Ruth Heflin, the prophetess, had sent me a word from the Lord, where she said that the Lord had spoken to her clearly, that, a, for me to prepare myself, for the Lord is going to visibly appear, on the platform, in one of our crusades. I pray it'll happen in every crusade. But I have a feeling, I am just telling you honestly, I have even told some of our staff, when I go to Kenya, I am going to Kenya in just a few days from now, a million people will be in Kenya, Nairobi. I feel in my being it is going to happen there. So pray for us as we go to Kenya. I pray it will happen tonight, at the good Friday service in Nashville. I pray it will happen in every crusade."
On the May 2nd, 2000 This Is Your Day, Benny again repeated that Jesus will physically appear at his crusades: (Programs are recorded 3 weeks in advance, so this program was recorded before the Nairobi Crusade.)
[QUOTE]May 2nd, 2000 - This Is Your Day
"And I know, that I know, that I know, we are about to see the greatest manifestations of God's presence ever! A prophetess named Ruth Heflin sent me a word recently and told me to get ready, to see, physical manifestations of Christ on the platforms in our crusades, that people will have visions of the Lord in the meetings. Those things have happened in the past, I know. In a Thialagua (spelling?) meeting one time in Africa, the Lord appeared to a - to the whole crowd! It is about to begin happening, I know it too! Expect it, to happen also, in your own home!"
from the "This Is Your Day" program of March 29th, 2000, when Benny apparently first announced that Jesus would appear at his meetings. This occurred about 10 minutes into the program. Here is a transcript of the clip:
[QUOTE]March 29th, 2000 - This Is Your Day
"Let me tell you something. The Holy Spirit has already told me He is about to show up. And you know, oh, I gotta tell you this quickly, just before we go. I had a word of prophecy from Ruth Heflin, you know who Ruth Heflin is? Ruth prophesied over me back in the seventies and everything she said has happened. She just sent me a word through my wife and said the Lord spoke to her audibly and said that He is going to appear physically in one of our crusades in the next few months. Yeah, she - I'm telling ya - she said, the Lord spoke to her audibly and said, 'Tell Benny I'm going to appear physically on the platform in his meetings'. Lord, do it in Phoenix Arizona in the name of Jesus! And in Kenya too, Lord, please, Lord, in fact, do it in every crusade. In Jesus' name."
Notably, Benny in the March 29th program showed a video clip of a Toronto Canada crusade where he was slaying young people in the spirit saying "FIRE, FIRE, FIRE, ... put FIRE on these kids ... He's being electrocuted by God's power ... Fire on you ... I never thought I would see this in Canada, ... FIRE, FIRE, FIRE." The stage was nearly full of young people who had fallen down and were incapacitated under the alleged imparting of the Holy Spirit. There is no scriptural precedent for "slaying in the spirit". In fact, it is contrary to the scriptural nature of the Holy Spirit to knock down or incapacitate people, even briefly. Acts chapter 2, which describes the great initial outpouring of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, doesn't have the slightest hint of anyone being "slain in the spirit." The baptism of fire (Matt 3:11, Luke 3:16) was a visible tongue of fire above the head (Acts 2:3) and not an incapacitating "electrocution." Slaying in the Spirit is simply unbiblical, and should be considered a counterfeit!
[IMG]http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/Nairobi.jpg[/IMG] [SIZE=1]Jan Crouch shows the Sunday Standard newspaper report on Benny Hinn's Nairobi Crusade on TBN's "Behind the Scenes" [/SIZE]
[QUOTE]April 2nd, 2000 - TBN Praise-a-thon
"And Paul, while you were speaking, the Lord spoke to me, and I have to obey Him. He said, tell Paul - Thank you Lord for this. You know I have been praying about a, something I have asked the Lord for when it comes to the anointing. And the Lord said, you tell Paul, that in the - in the next few months, and I'll - I'll do this in - no more than six months, I will sow $150,000 dollars, into TBN - no I have to - I have to obey the Lord, because the Lord wants to bring something to me in our ministry. You see the ground here is very anointed right now. So Lord, I am doing it now. I am sowing Master, and I am expecting this miracle too Lord. But Lord I am proving myself worthy again of your trust. Lord we know its not the money. We know its our hearts and its our obedience to you when you speak to us. To you be praise Jesus [Benny briefly speaks in tongues] Now some of you, at home, need to do the same."
Benny Hinn, desiring a gift from the Holy Spirit (the anointing), represents God as commanding him to give a large sum of money to TBN in order to receive his requested spiritual gift. This suggests that God sells spiritual gifts for a price. Scripture deals explicitly with this situation, and it has been called Simony ever since it was first attempted by Simon the sorcerer:
[COLOR=Navy]Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Acts 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. Acts 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Acts 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost. Acts 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money. Acts 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. Acts 8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.[/COLOR]
"We counted the money for two days... I have never seen so much money in my life," says Charles Babbler, who hosted the Benny Hinn miracle crusade in April, attended by an estimated 1.2 million faithful. - Daily Mail & Guardian, Johannesburg, South Africa, June 7th, 2000.
[COLOR=Indigo]2 Pet 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2 Pet 2:2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 2 Pet 2:3 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.[/COLOR]
Benny Hinn was the guest on the May 9th Behind the Scenes program of TBN with Jan Crouch, and video from his Nairobi Crusade was shown, but there was not even the slightest mention of Jesus physically appearing, and neither did Benny Hinn explain why the widely prophesied appearance had not happened.
On his June 7th, 2000, "This is your day" program (Real Video - é 2000 Benny Hinn Ministries), taped in Nairobi Kenya, Benny Hinn made the following pronouncement, beginning19 minutes into the program:
[QUOTE]June 7th, 2000 - This Is Your Day
"Today, I do not say, as the old covenant prophets used to say, "Thus saith the Lord". For thousands of years prophets would say "Thus saith the Lord", and only when they'd say it, the power of God would fall. But this man [Jesus] didn't say "Thus saith the Lord", He just said "I say". He looked at the storm and said "Peace be still". It obeyed Him. He looked at death and said GO! and it fled. He looked at demons and said GO! and they fled. He looked at disease and said GO! and it fled. He never once said "Thus saith the Lord." He just said "I say". Now, here is the amazing thing. He came to the twelve and He went (blow, blow, blow, blow), on all of them, and said "Go in my name." Ladies and gentlemen, you haven't heard me say "Thus saith the Lord", have you? You haven't heard me say "I say", have you? No you know what we say? We don't say "Thus saith the Lord, we don't say "I say", we say I say in the name of Jesus! I say in the name of Jesus! In the name of Jesus! In the name of [crowd] Jesus! [Benny Hinn] The prophets of old said "Thus saith the Lord". Jesus, for thirty years said, "Verily I say unto you". Ever since the resurrection there's been men and women all over this earth, there's been prophets, there's been preachers, there's been evangelists, there's been believers like yourselves who simply stretch the hand and say "I say in the name of Jesus". "I say in the name of Jesus". "I say, in the name [crowd] of Lord Jesus". [Benny Hinn] My brother, when Jesus said "I say" disease fled, demons fled, darkness fled, bondage fled, death fled. And when we say "I say in His name", its the same, because when we say "in His name" He is saying it, when we say "in His name", He is doing it!"
Benny Hinn was the guest preacher on Trinity Broadcasting's fall 2000 Praise-A-Thon on the evening of Tuesday, November 7th. He claimed that God clearly and audibly spoke to him in a vision on the previous Saturday, while under a "fearful anointing" at First Presbyterian Church of Pittsburgh Pennsylvania:
[QUOTE]November 7th - TBN's Fall 2000 Praise-A-Thon
STOP what you are doing and hear this! The Lord said to me last Saturday, I heard His voice in that church, and He said, "Tell them, time is running out", and His voice was coming in waves in into my heart. "Time is running" and then there was a second voice. Now hear this one. ...
"Tell the people, I am passing by many" Hear this - "I am passing by many and if I pass by it would be as though I never knew them. I am passing by many and if I pass by it would be as though I never knew them." My friend we're all being tested right now on whether we are gonna stick with this or walk away from it. Tonight is decision night. It is not only decision night for America, for the next four years, this is decision night for eternity. What you do for God tonight, you do it with your soul, you do it with your life. This is not, my friend, just another Tel-A-Thon. This is - this may very well be the last one. Time is so short people, I'm tellin' ya, never have I sensed it - I am telling you I am speaking to you prophetically.
[QUOTE]November 7th - TBN's Fall 2000 Praise-A-Thon
The Lord said to me audibly, I heard it. People I don't often hear the Lord's voice audibly, but I heard the Lord's voice audibly. He said "Tell them - time is running out". Then I heard another voice, that I believe is the voice of the Holy Spirit. He said "Tell the people", and the atmosphere changed when that happened, He said "Tell the people, I am passing by many, and once I pass by it would be as though I never knew them." In other words, there's, its, its the last call. Do you remember what He said in the scripture, when, when he said, the young virgins, that some had the oil and some didn't have any? The five wise, the five foolish. It, we are in it. We are in it. People, He is passing by many. Thank God He is not passing you by.
The message is clear. Give to TBN now or God will pass you by, and you will be forever lost! It will be as if God never knew you! Benny also claimed, on the same program, that the Lord told him that December 12th will be a historic day in the Kingdom of God!
Could it be true? Well, just as true as Castro dying in the 90's. Just as true as the homosexuals in America being destroyed by fire by 1995! Just as true as Assad signing a peace treaty with Israel. Just as true as Jesus Christ appearing physically on the stage at Benny's Nairobi Crusade in April of 2000! Which is to say, TBN will have more Tel-A-Thons, and Benny Hinn will again beg for even more donations. But, you can be saved without giving a single nickel to TBN. What we don't know, is what gimmick Benny will use at the next TBN Tel-A-Thon, what alleged word from God he will claim to have, in order to coerce money from the viewing audience.
Benny Hinn curses all those who speak against his ministry
[QUOTE]Yes, Lord, I 'll do it. I place a curse on every man and every woman that will stretch his hand against this anointing. I curse that man who dares to speak a word against this ministry.
[I]...and people here wonder why religion is shunned by so many 'elitists'! We're [I]not [/I] elitists...we just aren't IDIOTS![/I]
2005-08-24 15:26 | User Profile
Ragno, You are both appalled by heretics, and disapproving of any talk of an inquisition to quash them. How would you propose that orthodox Christianity should defend itself?
2005-08-24 17:42 | User Profile
Good question, Quantrill. Raggy wants to eat his cake and save it.
Petr
2005-08-24 18:35 | User Profile
il ragno,
You are most Right. TBN is sick, it is sad anyone gives them any money. Jan Crouch looks like an old prostitute and her voice is a sickening sound... [QUOTE=il ragno] [IMG]http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/Nairobi.jpg[/IMG] [SIZE=1]Jan Crouch shows the Sunday Standard newspaper report on Benny Hinn's Nairobi Crusade on TBN's "Behind the Scenes" [/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
2005-08-24 18:45 | User Profile
Read this page, it's full of interesting and deeply disturbing information:
[COLOR=Blue][FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=5]"There is an EXACT correlation between:
All Pentecostal/Charismatic churches today
AND[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]
[B]The Serpent Power of the Awakening Kundalini
Sathya Sai gurus
Subud worship manifestations
Qigong healing manifestations
Shakers manifestations
African Kung Bushmen of the Kalahair
Stage Hypnotists
[B]We canââ¬â¢t tell the difference... can you?[/B] [/B][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[url]http://www.bible.ca/tongues-kundalini-shakers-charismastics.htm[/url]
Petr
2005-08-24 19:31 | User Profile
Quantrill,
"Apalled by heretics" is far too harsh - amused by conmen - wildly transparent conmen - and their mouth-breathing 'victims' is a lot more like it.
And let's call this an equal-time thread. These are the sorts of Christians...by my lights, the majority in this country....that nobody around here likes to even pretend [I]exist [/I] (yet the scary thing is all these people vote). When confronted with them, Petr has to twist himself into a Pretzel of Judgment to slide off the hook (you can always tell when he's desperate: the fonts change color and grow to Godzilla-proportions).
Mr "what fools you conspiracy theorists be" himself turns into a shrieking Cassandra alerting us all to the Secret Plot between Darwinists, freemasons, Indian fakirs and the bushmen of the Kalahari.
Would that he restriced himself to the sick men inside the faith - but he likes to spend his days sneering at the nonbelievers. I just thought it was time we examined why so many of the nonbelievers choose to wash their hands of this particular superstition in the first place.
2005-08-24 19:48 | User Profile
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=Purple][B][I] - "When confronted with them, Petr has to twist himself into a Pretzel of Judgment to slide off the hook (you can always tell when he's desperate: the fonts change color and grow to Godzilla-proportions). Mr "what fools you conspiracy theorists be" himself turns into a shrieking Cassandra alerting us all to the Secret Plot between Darwinists, freemasons, Indian fakirs and the bushmen of the Kalahari."[/I][/B][/COLOR][/FONT]
What the HECK are you blathering about? You are clearly out of your league when dealing with spiritual matters, so might as well shut up rather than make dumb comments such as these, making asinine comments about my usage of fonts.
I was presenting information that charismatics like Benny Hinn might well be dabbling with the same demonic forces that all these pagan religions are immersed with. I greatly fear such an infiltration of Christendom.
I do not think that Charismanic mania can be explained by mere money-making fakery, not by a long shot.
Petr
2005-08-24 20:27 | User Profile
After reading these articles by Ragno, regarding the sorry and confused state of modern Christianity, two remarks by Adolf Hitler came to mind.
I've resisted the temptation to post them cause I know I'll ketch hell...But ahh, what the heck!
"All Jews have good reason to celebrate Martin Luther and to ignore his anti-Semitism. Without intending to do so, he paved the way for them."
"Jews have done much damage to Christianity. Had Martin Luther seen them in his youth instead of his older years, he would not have attacked and split Catholicism, but rather the Jews behind it...Instead of wholesale condemnation of the Church, he would have let his whole passionate impetus fall on the true villains."
2005-08-24 20:34 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]And let's call this an equal-time thread. These are the sorts of Christians...by my lights, the majority in this country....that nobody around here likes to even pretend exist * (yet the scary thing is all these people vote*).[/QUOTE] I have no problem admitting that the vast majority of Christians in this country do not hold to orthodox Christian doctrine, with some in material heresy and a great many in formal heresy. It is sad, but true, and it comes as no surprise to anyone who is familiar with the prophesies of the New Testament. My question, however, was a serious one. When Christians debate points of dogma and enforce doctrinal discipline, they are accused of being closed-minded, oppressive, judgemental, etc. When they do not take these steps, and heresies thereby flourish, critics then point to these heresies as evidence that Christianity itself is ridiculous and unworthy of belief. If you disapprove of lunatics like Benny Hinn, then presumably you would support more a more aggressive approach to reprimanding heretics.
2005-08-24 20:35 | User Profile
vytis, there's no way you can blame Jews for the Charismatic excesses. It's un-Christian (but actually rather Jewish) to refuse to acknowledge one's own deficiencies and obsessively look out for scape-goats instead.
Petr
2005-08-24 21:14 | User Profile
Ugh... more crazy quotations:
[url]http://www.inplainsite.org/html/man_as_god.html[/url]
[COLOR=Blue][B]"I am a little god! Critics, be gone!" [/B] (Paul Crouch: "Praise the Lord" program, July 7, 1986).[/COLOR]
And by the way of comparison:
[COLOR=Red]ââ¬ÅAnd he must as a Satanist, knowing this, realizing what his human potential is, eventually, and here is one of the essential points of satanism, attain his own godhead in accordance with his own potential. [B]Therefore, each man, each woman, is a god or goddess in satanism[/B].ââ¬Â
Petr
2005-08-24 21:26 | User Profile
[quote=Quantrill]If you disapprove of lunatics like Benny Hinn, then presumably you would support more a more aggressive approach to reprimanding heretics. The problem is that one man's heresy is another man's "truth." Nearly all Christian denominations see the members of other denominations as heretics. That's because there's no way to prove who's right.
What's my answer to this? Well, I certainly don't think anyone should be persecuted for his religious beliefs. Everyone has the right to believe whatever makes sense to him. My problem is with those who, by influencing the US government, are causing me to pay money to Israel. That is what I want to see stopped. When Congress authorizes the funding of Israel with our tax dollars at the prompting of the CZ lobby, it is violating the First Amendment by making laws respecting the establishment of a religion: namely, Christian Zionism.
I really don't care if people want to say prayers in public schools or have the Ten Commandments posted in courtrooms (though the latter seems kind of odd, considering that many of the sins forbidden by the Ten Commandments are perfectly legal). But paying taxes to support people I detest just because millions of people have been suckered by CZ is something I find intolerable.
As for Benny Hinn...well, apart from his pro-Israel money-grubbing, he's even funnier to me than Benny Hill. :lol:
2005-08-24 21:40 | User Profile
Ah, here's a chance to tie two threads together: some photographic evidence on the [B]Masonic connections [/B] of these man-as-god word-faith blasphemers:
[url]http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/handshakes.htm[/url]
[B][COLOR=Purple][SIZE=5]MASONIC HANDSHAKES OF THE 'CHRISTIAN ELITE' [/SIZE] [/COLOR][/B]
Petr
2005-08-25 03:34 | User Profile
MASONIC HANDSHAKES OF THE 'CHRISTIAN ELITE'
Thus was born the Ministry of Silly Walks.
[QUOTE]As for Benny Hinn...well, apart from his pro-Israel money-grubbing, he's even funnier to me than Benny Hill. [/QUOTE]
I'm convinced the secret of Benny's charisma is that he always wears a hairpiece on top of his regular hairpiece.
Gotta love that "Holy Ghost machine gun", though.
2005-08-25 03:41 | User Profile
Then there is this juicy little tidbit concerning TBN head honcho, Paul Crouch.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[url]http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=2&url=http%3A//www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2004/011/2.19.html&ei=ET0NQ_vkJZmq-gHD8KjTCQ[/url]
Home > Christianity Today Magazine > Hot Issues > Money & Business
Christianity Today, November 2004
TBN Under the Microscope Newspaper investigates Christian network over sex charges, spending. By Religion News Service, staff reports | posted 10/07/2004 9:00 a.m.
[B]Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) is playing defense as the Los Angeles Times investigates an allegation that its president, Paul Crouch, was involved in a homosexual encounter with a male former employee.[/B] It is also examining the California ministry's opulence, theology, and business practices. TBN says Crouch, 70, will remain at the helm.
[B]The Times published a story September 12 about legal wrangling involving Crouch and accuser Enoch Lonnie Ford since the late 1990s.[/B] Ford met Crouch in 1991 at a drug treatment center affiliated with the network.
[B]After Ford, 41, threatened to sue the network, claiming that he had been unfairly fired, Crouch reached a $425,000 settlement with him in 1998. In it, the man agreed not to discuss his claim of a 1996 sexual encounter with Crouch.[/B] But in April, Ford's lawyer sought $10 million for the rights to a manuscript Ford wrote detailing his allegations.
The Orange County-based ministry called the accuser "a convicted felon and longtime drug abuser." tbn said ministry funds were not used to pay the settlement.
"The importance of the settlement does not rest on the money paid, but rather on Dr. Crouch's vehement denial of the allegations made against him as well as the agreement of the accuser," the ministry said.
The newspaper also reported that tbn, with inadequate board oversight, pays Paul Crouch $403,700 and his wife, Jan, $361,000ââ¬â"the highest salaries paid by any of the 12 major religious nonprofits whose finances are tracked by the Chronicle of Philanthropy." TBN nets about $60 million a year and has $583 million in assets. The watchdog agency MinistryWatch.com called for an independent commission to run TBN.
2005-08-25 03:45 | User Profile
Now, see, [I]here [/I] I've got to take Paul Crouch's side.
I mean, pardon my French....but would YOU **** this? [IMG]http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/Nairobi.jpg[/IMG]
2005-08-25 04:55 | User Profile
"Prosperity Preaching" in Australia (video + transcript):
[url]http://news.sbs.com.au/insight/trans.php?transid=537[/url]
2005-08-25 15:31 | User Profile
My recommendation:
[url=http://www.equip.org/store/details.asp?SKU=B400]Christianity in Crisis[/url] by Hank Hanegraaff
This award-winning, classic text on the Word Faith movement carefully documents one of the most pervasive and dangerous cultic theologies to ever penetrate the contemporary evangelical church. Christianity in Crisis addresses the Faith movement's teaching on the nature of God, the atonement of Christ, positive confession, healing, prosperity, and much more. Hank offers a detailed map for becoming grounded in the basic truths of the Bible and for living the genuine Christian life.
[img]http://www.equip.org/prodimages/chrincrisispaperbk.gif[/img]
2005-08-25 17:52 | User Profile
I've heard televangelists talk about such things as seed money. If you have financial needs, you must send them some money. They'll even take credit cards. I'm sure it's common that poor, old ladies write tear-jerking letters, along with their checks. It really makes you think about how cold-hearted some of these con men are.
When you're young, you need to develop good habbits because when you're old, you might not have the wit to avoid being a victim.
2005-08-25 19:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE]It really makes you think about how cold-hearted some of these con men are.[/QUOTE]They're masters of rationalization. This is their perspective: a fool and his money are soon parted, and it might as well end up in my pocket!
2005-08-26 02:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]My recommendation:
[url="http://www.equip.org/store/details.asp?SKU=B400"]Christianity in Crisis[/url] by Hank Hanegraaff
[img]http://www.equip.org/prodimages/chrincrisispaperbk.gif[/img][/QUOTE] This looks like a hell of a good book, and better than reading Joel Osteen!
Btw, Tex when did Protestant ministers down your way start to refer to themselves as "pastors" rather than as ministers.
This "pastor" thing is sort of a Catholic thing. Ain't it?
If it was a question of whose in charge at a big church, what was wrong with asst. minister, or lay minister etc.
2005-08-26 10:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE]This is their perspective: a fool and his money are soon parted, and it might as well end up in my pocket![/QUOTE]
It's less a rationalization than "the way of the world".
I was a huge Robert Tilton fan back in the early 90s.....often gathering with friends and a few six-packs to watch him. I still have a slew of videotaped Bob circa 90 and 91, including the infamous 20/20 that exposed him, as well as Bob's hilariously desperate 'response show' aired the very next night (one of the purely funniest things in the history of unintentional comedy, where he cupped his hands around his mouth to shout "TILTON'S HOUSE SEIZED IN DRUG RAID", followed by his making a face at the camera and sneering, "Big deal!") I even called his Prayer Hotline to "make a thousand-dollar vow" just to get on his mailing list. And, yup, his "literature" was as funny as he was.
Throughout his 'ordeal', I rooted hard against Diane Sawyer and the Texas A.G. succeeding.... for the simple reason that he was [I]so[/I] transparently and entertainingly crooked it boggled the mind that [I]anyone [/I] could be stupid enough to send him Dime One except out of gratitude for the nightly comedy he offered.
Not only did he [I]look[/I] like the Devil but everything that came out of his mouth practically [U]screamed[/U] "I am a crook". He almost never said "Jesus" except for things like "praise Jesus" or "thank you Jesus", usually immediately following some of the most hilarious tongue-talkin' anybody's ever heard ("[B]kora [/B] basanta kabamba besoya!"). He'd even use tongues as a sort of punctuation mark - once, he told his viewers how to best utilize his magic Prayer Cloths: "put it everywhere: put it in yer house, in yer car, kobo put it in yer shoe..." You could practically see the cocaine-frosting ringing his nostrils! And he only knew about four Bible stories which he'd repeat ad nauseum: Elijah visiting the Widow of Zaraphat, Jacob-had-nuthin-till-he-made-a-vow, the three lepers, and of course Jesus telling Peter to "go fishin'" ("and the MONEY was RIGHT THERE in the fish's MOUTH!!")
Not only was I convinced that the people sending him money were the sort of gene-pool defectives who were determined to buy snake oil from somebody, anybody...I'm equally convinced that they're the [I]exact same people[/I] who are today sending money to Benny Hinn and John Hagee and Rod Parsley or whoever. (And, yes, I've seen this current Tilton; and he's a sad, broken-down shadow of his old self from a pure-entertainment standpoint...[I]way [/I] too cautious to risk going over the top like he used to, therefore useless to me as comedy).
Some of my all-time favorite Tiltonisms:
"Lemme tell you sumpin...you don't [I]have [/I] to be black to make a vow to God."
"I see a man, and....this is an unusual word....sir, you are NOT gonna have diarrhea any longer. You are NOT gonna have diarrhea any longer. Spirit of diarrhea, GO!"
"Manda ha basatta, something in the digestive track - we've seen many many people delivered of the colostomy bag...kobo la-ba-satta, we've seen midgets grow...hey I don't [B]make [/B] this stuff up!"
"Satan gave me this message - oops, shouldn'ta said that.....that's a lie of the Devil. [B]God [/B] gave me this message!"
"You're gonna drive a new car. YOU'RE GONNA DRIVE A NEW CAR! You're gon- blue, a blue one, that's God right there, confirming that in your life. You're gonna drive a new CAR - it may not be a Cadillac; might be a Chevrolet, might be a Toyota, it might be a Honda. But, bless God, it'll be a new one!"
And countless others. My all-timer favorite doesn't even involve a quote. One night he was so high that as soon as the announcer said, "Here's Robert Tilton!" and the lights went up he started giggling uncontollably....got his breath, tried started again, and collapsed into another giggling fit! Then tried explaining it away as the Holy Spirit just putting too much joy in him for an earthly man to handle. I had so many people asking to borrow those tapes I eventually had to buy a second vcr just to dupe them copies, or I'd've never had them returned to me.
2005-08-26 11:27 | User Profile
[COLOR=Blue][FONT=Arial][B][I] - "Satan gave me this message - oops, shouldn'ta said that.....that's a lie of the Devil. God gave me this message!"[/I][/B][/FONT][/COLOR]
"Prophet" Muhammad already did this shtick, although the other way around: he said that Allah approved the worship of idol gods, and afterwards claimed, literally, that "devil made me say it."
[SIZE=4][B]"The Satanic Verses"[/B][/SIZE]
[url]http://answering-islam.org/Hahn/satanicverses.htm[/url]
Petr
2005-08-26 11:50 | User Profile
I thought it amusing that there is a televangelist named "Dollar".
Pat Robertson has his moments. One of my favorites was when a viewer wrote in to inquire about how Christians should look upon popular music. Pat looked very serious and alarmed for a moment and then said "The thing about all this Rock and Roll music that is it comes from PAGAN AFRICA". Then looked down and laughed for a few seconds, apparently amused from thinking about the primitive Africans dancing around a stewpot or so. Pat's expression then grew pensive and he wistfully remarked "You know what though, I always liked that song "Dust in the Wind by Kansas." And he concluded on that note.
On another occasion, 700 Club was showing a recreation of a member and his coming to faith. Apparently he was a nonbeliever up until a certain point, and was described as "...hateful, he hated the church, he hated Jesus Christ, he hated the 700 Club AND he even HATED Pat Robertson!". They then went on to tell of the conversion, but the real humour there was in the list of hatreds, which I assume to be in ascending priority.
2005-08-26 12:20 | User Profile
LOL at that "Dust in the Wind" coda. Re "...hateful, he hated the church, he hated Jesus Chirst, he hated the 700 Club AND he even HATED Pat Roberton!", Tlton used to call such folks [I]anti-the-real-Jesus[/I], which had me scratching my head for hours.
Pat R never really appealed to me, though. Too camera-savvy, too cunning, and [I]far [/I] too aware that his words might come back to haunt him later. I like the guys who think, because they're on tv and have people send them money in envelopes, that they're utterly invulnerable to harm. (Another Tiltonism just occurred to me: once, while exhorting the suckers to make a thousand-dollar vow ("there's something anointed about that word: [I]thousand dollars[/I]", he once said) he cracked "that [I]don't [/I] mean you write me hot checks. Some of y'all been sending in some hot checks, bless God...you just....just wait'll the money's in yer account." Classic!)
Some of the best old-time, clearly-a-crook, don't-care-who's-wtching-or-what-they-say tv evangelists out there are the black ones. There's a guy from the bowels of Tampa called M.B Jefferson who has (or had) a program called DEEPER LIFE who's like a holdover from Amos and Andy. I didn't even know they let Negroes like this on television anymore...he can best be described as a burnt-cork Boss Hogg since he looks, acts and dresses exactly like Sorrell Booke on the old DUKES OF HAZZARD show, and talks so [I]old-time-colored [/I] you can barely make out what he's saying half the time. (Rather than 'hallelujah!' or 'praise God!' he likes to shout 'come-on-outta-hyah!' as if it was one word, usually while doing a little fat-guy soft-shoe dance step.) The most entertaining thing about him is how he excoriates homosexuals on every show. Since I think he has difficulty enunciating something as multisyllabic as 'homosexual' he just saves time and calls them 'fags'. It's actually refreshing to see even a bogus preacher not kowtow to the all-powerful taboo prohibiting displeasure towards gays, but combined with his yard-ape mannerisms and sambo patter it's even funnier: "See, if'n you walk like dis [I]heah[/I]", he'll say, mincing on tiptoe and swaying his hips while blowing kisses at the crowd, "you's a fag! Ain't no 'gay' about it - [U]you fag![/U] Fag's a fag! [B]Come-on-outta-hyah!![/B]"
2005-08-26 14:07 | User Profile
You're right that Robertson is a cunning one. He's a son of a U.S. Senator, after all:
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=Indigo]"([B]Marion Gordon Robertson[/B]), 1930-, American evangelist and politician, b. Lexington, Va. The son of U.S. Senator A. Willis Robertson, he is a graduate of Yale Law School and an ordained Southern Baptist minister. "[/COLOR][/FONT]
[url]http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/r/rbrtsonp1a.asp[/url]
(So, Pat originally had the same first name that "John Wayne" too was born with... :tongue: )
Petr
2005-08-26 14:22 | User Profile
Pat's begs for money in a more sophisticated way, that is hard not to notice.
Once I saw him bring out a chart with Bible verses and graphs to demonstrate "God's Law of Reciprocity". He looked like he was doing a financial presentation to a corporate board rather than just soliciting funds from the gullible. I see he even has a bit of it up on one of his sites [QUOTE]
use it to make more money? If you can begin an investment program where you can set aside $100 or $200, and then $400, pretty soon, you will have $800. After a while, the money will begin to work for you. The law of use and the law of compounding interest will begin to build up an enormous amount of money. If a person could simply double $100 every year for twenty years, it would become $50 million!
[/QUOTE]
[url="http://www.cbn.com/SpiritualLife/teachingsheets/Pat_Perspective_financial_prosperity.asp"]http://www.cbn.com/SpiritualLife/teachingsheets/Pat_Perspective_financial_prosperity.asp[/url]
[QUOTE]In the Old Testament, the Jews were instructed to take their tithes" to the storehouse," which was the temple ââ¬â the center of religion for the entire country. Today, since the Body of Christ has so many manifestations (churches, colleges, television and overseas ministries, hospitals, relief agencies, etc.), people can choose where their tithes should go.
It's important that you give your tithe to the place that feeds you *spiritually*. If you're a church member, you should honor your own church with consistent financial support, since membership entails responsibilities as well as privileges.
[/QUOTE] [url="http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/CBNTeachingSheets/Giving_And_Tithing.asp"]http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/CBNTeachingSheets/Giving_And_Tithing.asp[/url]
Of course, they should choose their tithes to go to the 700 Club or CBN.
I looked for a transcript of the Dust in the Wind Quote, no luck but it turns out the lyricist for that tune is now a born again Christian and has met Pat.
Pat is also good friends with Roger Mcguin of The Byrds. On one broadcast, as an Easter treat for his viewers. Mcguin was brought out to sing a folk song about the resurrection. He was introduced with the 700 Club hosts wearing John Lennon glasses and the words "Let's all take a trip back to the psychedelic 60s with Roger Mcguin". Surreal does not do it justice. That is unintended humour at its finest.
2005-08-26 15:46 | User Profile
I am convinced that some of these charismatics are dealing with actual occult forces - no mere fakery and theater could explain how this is such a widespread and successful movement:
[url]http://www.luciferlink.org/wtoro.htm[/url]
...
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=5]May the Force Be With You[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] Ironically, my first indication that something very occultic was involved with the Toronto phenomenon did not come from the manifestations that I observed. The "red flag" hit me like a ton of bricks when I first read the account of Rodney Howard-Browne's ministry after he had been "anointed with fire."
In his book [I]A Touch of God [/I] (p.76), Browne states, [I]"We were preaching in a Methodist church. I was back in the vestibule--which is a holy name for a plain old office--preparing for service. One of the young ladies came into the office and asked me to pray for her because she was in terrible pain...I got my hand halfway to her head, almost like a gunslinger would draw a gun out of a holster, and point it at his opponent. Suddenly, unexpectedly, it felt like my fingertips came off. I felt a full volume of anointing flow out of my hand. The only way I can explain it is to liken it to a fireman holding a fire hose with a full volume of water flowing out of it. The anointing went right into her. It looked like someone had hit her in the head with an invisible baseball bat and she fell to the floor[/I]"
Whether Rodney is relating an accurate account of his experience or if he is just expressing visions of grandeur, I do not know. If his statement is genuine, however, he may have developed the metaphysical art of "Qi" to a high degree. Let me explain.
[B]When Rodney was only one year old (and before my conversion to Christ), I was being taught by one of the world's highest ranking black belt Karate masters (on the island of Okinawa) to break cinder blocks with my fingertips. The energy technique that I used (and taught for over twenty years to martial arts practitioners in the United States) is identical to that described by Rodney Howard-Browne in his testimony above. All I have to do is replace his word "anointing" with the word "Qi."[/B]
The Japanese word "Qi" (or Ki) is a convenient label for the synergy of a focused mind and a relaxed body. It is similar to the Chinese word "Ch'i" which refers to the center of acupuncture meridian energy. Both terms have to do with the metaphysical force or energy generated within the human bio-system (about two inches above the navel near the spine) and allowed to flow outward through the open fingertips. Through training in specific ways "Extending" Qi is likened to the internal energy flow and power that can be developed similar to that of rushing water "flowing from a fire hose, this energy can be developed, controlled, and used in a very powerful way."
[B]It allows for the fantastic focused energy witnessed in board and brick breaking exhibitions by martial artists and the effortless throws by advanced Aikido practitioners. It is also used in the Japanese (Taoist) healing practice known as shiatsu, or finger pressure therapy.[/B]
The point I am trying to make is this: The Qi force is NOT a Biblical term or an anointing by the Holy Spirit. It is a metaphysical term based entirely on the foundations of Zen Buddhism, Taoism, Yoga, and occultic philosophy! If Browne's account is correct, I strongly suggest that he has tapped into this occultic force and is using it in the name of Jesus!
...
[B]The cultic nature of the phenomenon witnessed in the Laughing Revival is understood very well by those who have been involved with the "dark forces" from the east[/B]. Many astute Christian leaders who have studied the subject are attempting to sound the alarm, but they are facing a fair bit of resistance from the large Christian camp who thinks they are immune from deception!
Assemblies of God Pastor Jacob Prasch is very adamant and absolutely correct when he exclaims, [B][I]"This is deception! This is what Jesus warned against!...Who sees through this stuff the clearest? People saved out of the occult, out of the New Age and Hinduism know exactly what this is. EXACTLY! People saved out of Hinduism and the occult see right through this stuff!"[/I][/B][/SIZE]
...[/FONT]
Petr
2005-08-26 18:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Pat is also good friends with Roger Mcguin of The Byrds. On one broadcast, as an Easter treat for his viewers. Mcguin was brought out to sing a folk song about the resurrection. He was introduced with the 700 Club hosts wearing John Lennon glasses and the words "Let's all take a trip back to the psychedelic 60s with Roger Mcguin". Surreal does not do it justice. That is unintended humour at its finest.[/QUOTE]
[B][I]roflmao!!![/I][/B] (But only if it was Pat in the granny glasses.)
2005-08-26 18:53 | User Profile
Yes, all of them.
2005-08-26 19:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE]I am convinced that some of these charismatics are dealing with actual occult forces - no mere fakery and theater could explain how this is such a widespread and successful movement:[/QUOTE]
Really? Cos I got [B]no [/B] problem explaining this with "fakery" and "theater".
"Tha anointing" is like the Jesus-tv equivalent of "whiplash" in a lawsuit, ie, "prove I [I]ain't [/I] got it!"
All those people falling down when they're "hit with the anointing"? Part of the new formalized ritual of Moron Healing. People may be fools but they ain't stupid....being a good "faller" gets your small-town, garden-variety ass on tv! Or on stage at a crusade! Or otherwise allows you to cling to whatever fifteen minutes of bottom-feeding minor-celebrity status you can grab ahold of. It ain't too difficult to picture Urethra Jackson being made a fuss over by her friends and family after getting "anointment-healed" by Rev. Cash Money right there ...even if it's only on his local-access-cable/UHF-broadcast Sunday services.
"Urethra, was you [I]really [/I] healed of yo inner ear problem?"
"Was I -? Bitch, y'all [B]seen [/B] me fall down on teevee, ain't you?"
"Ooooh, [I]girl[/I], dat Rev Cash Money - he so good lookin', too! I wouldn't mind him anointin' my black ass in de back o' his Benz car neither, ha-HAA!"
Etc. If you need to understand how the 'anointing' scam works, just read [B]Extraordinary Popular Delusions And The Madness Of Crowds [/B] By Charles Mackay. No need to consult Indian fakirs....just-plain fakers is more like it.
2005-08-26 19:32 | User Profile
Fakery may explain most of it, but not [B]everything[/B]. I believe that no great movement has ever succeeded on mere fluff - there always needs to be some hard core to start the whole thing and keep the engine running.
Do you consider all the works of Eastern mystics phony as well?
Mackay's work was written in 1841 - not the freshest source possible.
(It's available online in here)
[url]http://www.litrix.com/madraven/madne001.htm[/url]
Petr
2005-08-26 20:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Mackay's work was written in 1841 - not the freshest source possible.[/QUOTE]
True, but the principles still hold.
[QUOTE]Fakery may explain most of it, but not everything. I believe that no great movement has ever succeeded on mere fluff - there always needs to be some hard core to start the whole thing and keep the engine running. [/QUOTE]
I notice that, as the median income and education levels of the congregations rise, the number of people coming up to the altar to get [I]Holy Ghost zapped [/I] drops precipitously. Benny Hinn and countless Negroes zap people with "the anointing"....Robert Schuller and the Presbyterians don't. Your 'occult power' making the engine go is probably no more than the need to believe....the need to see and feel "physical manifestations" of the supernatural a a method of obtaining otherworldly validation for what are otherwise humdrum and ignoble lives. That's neither Masonic perfidy nor Eastern mumbo-jumbo...that's just [I]religion[/I], in a nutshell.