← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · xmetalhead
Thread ID: 19790 | Posts: 22 | Started: 2005-08-23
2005-08-23 15:09 | User Profile
But the United States is a Christian country?? Right? We don't "bear false witness against a neighbor" (Saddam) and we always "love and pray for our enemies", correct? (Hugo Chavez)
Now, I'm not saying that we have to ass-kiss Hugo Chavez, nor do we have to like how he runs his country, but ultimately, you get what you give, and the USA has given tons of grief and belligerence to dozens of world leaders when it wasn't necessary, Chavez included. Yet, to a supposed Christian like Robertson, Chavez gotta go....to me, Robertson sounds more like a mafia Don than some kind of conservative Christian.
[QUOTE]Robertson, host of Christian Broadcasting Network's The 700 Club and founder of the Christian Coalition of America, called for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.[URL=http://mediamatters.org/items/200508220006]Link[/URL]
From the August 22 broadcast of The 700 Club:
[B]ROBERTSON[/B]: There was a popular coup that overthrew him [Chavez]. And what did the United States State Department do about it? Virtually nothing. And as a result, within about 48 hours that coup was broken; Chavez was back in power, but we had a chance to move in. He has destroyed the Venezuelan economy, and he's going to make that a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism all over the continent.
[COLOR=DarkRed]You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war. And I don't think any oil shipments will stop. But this man is a terrific danger and the United ... This is in our sphere of influence, so we can't let this happen. We have the Monroe Doctrine, we have other doctrines that we have announced. And without question, this is a dangerous enemy to our south, controlling a huge pool of oil, that could hurt us very badly. We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with.[/COLOR][/QUOTE]
Robertson says "it's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war" yet this same Robertson was calling for war on Iraq and pretty gung-ho about it too. My conclusion based on all this: Robertson and his ilk [U]are[/U] the "terrific danger" to the United States, not Hugo Chavez.
2005-08-23 15:32 | User Profile
If you think there's untold hatred and resentment for America in the Arab world, it's probably about on par with Central & South America - where we've been propping up dictators, who've butchered their own, and sandbagging popular regimes - who don't - for a century.
But seriously....where did anyone think conferring moral/political/intellectual legitimacy on ice-cream-suit Christianity was going to lead? Eldorado? Heaven?
2005-08-23 15:59 | User Profile
Judaeo-"Christians" have all the hypocricy of the zhids.
2005-08-23 16:18 | User Profile
Robertson owns diamond mines in some exploited African hole. He possesses all the piety of a cardinal in Renaissance Rome.
Petr
2005-08-23 16:24 | User Profile
He has destroyed the Venezuelan economy, and he's going to make that a launching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism all over the continent. Could someone explain to me exactly why we should be worried about Venezuela being a 'launching pad for Muslim extremism'? According to the US State Department website, Venezuela is 99% Christian, with Muslims, Jews, atheists, and all other faiths combined totalling 1%. I'm more worred about Detroit as a 'launching pad for Muslim extremism' than Venezuela. And if we're going to start assassinating foreign leaders for destroying their economies, then shouldn't we start with Robert Mugabe?
2005-08-23 16:50 | User Profile
Q, nice one pointing out Robert Mugabe. And Mugabe is notorious for fixing election after election after election. I can't be certain about Chavez, but from all appearances that I have access to, it seems a very large percentage of Venezuelans actually voted for Chavez.....including recounts.
Also, why's Pat Robertson worried about Communist infiltration when the US Government already supports 9 out of 10 Marxist planks anyway?
These foolish "conservative" stooges expect the downfall of America to come from outside while everyone from the far left to the far right to the moderates all see the biggest threat to our way of life sits right on the banks of the Potomac river.
2005-08-23 18:11 | User Profile
Keep America safe, by bomb, bullet or bogus balloting, anywhere in the world but [I]here [/I] - propose anything, everything, but sealing the border. Where the real threats to the nation are swarming in, like silverfish out of a corpse.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the last time I looked, the continental 48 was [I]also [/I] in our "sphere".
2005-08-23 19:35 | User Profile
Robertson is one of those Christians who might have read the Bible but sure as hell didn't understand it.
I'm still on the fence as to whether or not Robertson is (1) sincere but incredibly stupid, or (2) a con man. I'm leaning toward (2).
[quote=xmetalhead]But the United States is a Christian country?? Right? We don't "bear false witness against a neighbor" (Saddam) and we always "love and pray for our enemies", correct? (Hugo Chavez) Excellent point. The US is supposedly overwhelmingly Christian, but most are probably nominal/hypocritical Christians who see no irony at all in the question, "Whom would Jesus bomb?"
2005-08-23 19:36 | User Profile
[SIZE=4][COLOR=Red]Pat Robertson: Kill Venezuelaââ¬â¢s president[/COLOR][/SIZE] [B]Televangelist talking like a terrorist, South American nation responds[/B]
Updated: 2:20 p.m. ET Aug. 23, 2005
CARACAS, Venezuela - Venezuelaââ¬â¢s vice president on Tuesday accused religious broadcaster Pat Robertson of making ââ¬Återrorist statementsââ¬Â by calling for the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez.
Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel said Venezuela was studying its legal options, adding that how Washington responds would put its anti-terrorism policy to the test.
ââ¬ÅThe ball is in the U.S. court, after this criminal statement by a citizen of that country,ââ¬Â Rangel told reporters. ââ¬ÅItââ¬â¢s huge hypocrisy to maintain this discourse against terrorism and at the same time, in the heart of that country, there are entirely terrorist statements like those.ââ¬Â
This man cannot be a true Christian. Heââ¬â¢s a fascist,ââ¬Â added Venezuelan legislator Desire Santos Amaral. ââ¬ÅThis is part of the policies of aggression from the right wing in the North against our revolution.ââ¬Â
Santos said she thinks U.S.-Venezuelan relations could still improve but comments by ââ¬Åcharlatans and fascistsââ¬Â like Robertson only get in the way.
The Bush administration swiftly and unequivocally distanced itself Tuesday from Robertson's statement. Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld, appearing at a Pentagon news conference, said when asked: ââ¬ÅOur department doesnââ¬â¢t do that kind of thing. Itââ¬â¢s against the law. Heââ¬â¢s a private citizen. Private citizens say all kinds of things all the time.ââ¬Â COLOR=DarkRed[/COLOR]
Acknowledging differences with the Caracas government, and saying it should be promoting democracy in the Western Hemisphere, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack called Robertsonââ¬â¢s remarks ââ¬Åinappropriate.ââ¬Â
ââ¬ÅThis is not the policy of the United States government. We do not share his views,ââ¬Â McCormack said.
There was no immediate comment from Chavez, who was winding up an official visit to Cuba on Tuesday.
Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition of America and a former presidential candidate, said Monday on the Christian Broadcast Networkââ¬â¢s ââ¬ÅThe 700 Clubââ¬Â that it was the United Statesââ¬â¢ duty to stop Chavez from making Venezuela a ââ¬Ålaunching pad for communist infiltration and Muslim extremism.ââ¬Â
Chavez has emerged as one of the most outspoken critics of President Bush, accusing the United States of conspiring to topple his government and possibly backing plots to assassinate him. U.S. officials have called the accusations ridiculous.
[URL=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9047102/]Rest of Story on MSNBC[/URL]
2005-08-23 21:44 | User Profile
What on earth is a "popular coup"? Chavez was overthrown by a group of military officers and a few hundred soldiers, while thousands of Venezuelans demonstrated in the streets both in support and opposition (those in support outnumbered those against him).
Chavez was installed into power by a "popular coup" commonly known as a democratic election. He is a communist f**kstick however.
2005-08-24 03:20 | User Profile
Robertson's call for the murder of Mr. Chavez is a prime example of the love of hatred and violence found among millenialists and Dispensationists. These screwballs hold to the idea that if their own screwy interpetation of scripture shows them that God will exault one people and humble another, then they have free reign to do violence to the people they feel will be humbled.
If it is God's will (and I doubt very much it is God's will) that the Palestinians are to be wiped out by the Israelis, then God Himself will do it. Christians are not permitted to do violence to these people. The second table of the 10 Commandments are still normative. We are obligated to love our neighbor, even if, for some reason, we think God will knock our neighbor down a peg. Idiots like Robertson think that somehow God needs "help."
In the case of Mr. Chavez, Mr. Robertson hasn't even presented any truly religious reason to oppose him. He just want's Chavez killed because he is a Leftist of a kind. Once you become a millenial dispensationist you have committed yourself to immoral violence and hatred.
2005-08-24 09:13 | User Profile
I hope President Chavez orders "Reverend" Robertson tried in absentia for his terrorist appeals to murder, and does so secretly. Then, the next time that vomitous bag of filth masquerading as a man travels to a country that has an extradition treaty with Venezuela, he could potentially be whisked aboard a Venezuelan Air Force jet, so as to facilitate his spending the next decade in a Third World prison. Why does nothing as supremely magnificent as this ever happen in the broader world? Its enough to almost make one feel a transitory pang of discouragement, before redoubling one's efforts, of course.
2005-08-24 12:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]Robertson owns diamond mines in some exploited African hole. He possesses all the piety of a cardinal in Renaissance Rome.
Petr[/QUOTE] Liberia. He has ties to Charles Taylor.
2005-08-24 21:20 | User Profile
Now Pat Robertson says he was "misinterpreted." He lies about it, even though his meaning was clear in the first place.
2005-08-26 15:52 | User Profile
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4188578.stm]U.S. Evangelical Seeks Chavez Talks[/url]
The Rev Ted Haggard, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, wants to distance American Christians from the remarks of a tele-evangelist...
...The Venezuelan government is adamant that it has no quarrel with individual Americans, and certainly not with the Christian community. A meeting with a senior evangelical would provide a stage for Mr Chavez to reach out to Americans and poke the White House in the eye - an opportunity he is unlikely to pass up.
2005-08-26 16:01 | User Profile
T.D.,
If this produces any news I wonder how the Neocon media will go about attacking them?
2005-08-29 23:14 | User Profile
Venezuela Wants Pat Robertson CARACAS, Venezuela, Aug. 29, 2005
President Hugo Chavez said Sunday that his government may ask the United States to extradite U.S. religious broadcaster Pat Robertson to Venezuela for suggesting American agents should kill him.
Earlier Sunday, Rev. Jesse Jackson offered support for Chavez, saying the televangelist's call for the Venezuelan leader's assassination was a criminal act.
The U.S. civil rights leader, who is on a four-day visit to Venezuela, called Robertson's statements "immoral" and "illegal." He urged U.S. authorities to take action, and said the U.S. government must choose "diplomacy over any threats of sabotage or isolation or assassination."
Sunday, speaking to foreign delegations attending a meeting of the Organization of American States in Caracas, Chavez said Venezuela will "exercise legal action in the United States" against Robertson.
"Calling for the assassination of a head of state is a terrorist act," said Chavez, an outspoken critic of President Bush who has forged strong relations with communist-led Cuba.
"We could even request his extradition," he added.
Chavez told OAS delegates that Venezuela would consider bringing the issue to United Nations if the U.S. government failed to cooperate.
Robertson's comments last week have increased already tense relations between Caracas and Washington. On his TV show "The 700 Club," Robertson said Chavez "is a dangerous enemy to our south, controlling a huge pool of oil that could hurt us very badly. We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We donââ¬â¢t need another 200-billion-dollar war to get rid of one strong-arm dictator. Itââ¬â¢s a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."
Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition of America, later issued an apology. "Is it right to call for assassination?," said Robertson, in a statement issued after an international furor over his remarks earlier in the week. "No, and I apologize for that statement. I spoke in frustration that we should accommodate the man who thinks the U.S. is out to kill him." Last Tuesday, the Bush administration swiftly distanced itself from Robertson's comments. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack called the remarks "inappropriate."
Venezuela has demanded a stronger condemnation of Robertson's remarks.
"We could offer him free psychiatric treatment ... but he could be a lost case" Chavez said sarcastically of Robertson and controversial statements the conservative commentator has made in the past.
Last year, Robertson said President Bush told him before the Iraq invasion: "We're not going to have any casualties," but that "the Lord told me it was going to be (a) a disaster and (b) messy." The White House issued denials.
éMMV, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report. [url]http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/28/world/printable798843.shtml[/url]
2005-08-31 21:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]Could someone explain to me exactly why we should be worried about Venezuela being a 'launching pad for Muslim extremism'? According to the US State Department website, Venezuela is 99% Christian, with Muslims, Jews, atheists, and all other faiths combined totalling 1%. I'm more worred about Detroit as a 'launching pad for Muslim extremism' than Venezuela.[/QUOTE]
Nobody said that Pat Robertson was particularly intelligent or sane.
Chavez is a "bad guy" and according to the George W. Bush view of the world through the dim lens of a "War on Terror," any "bad guy" is by default a "Muslim Extremist" or is aiding and abetting them.
The big picture aspect of this story seems to be that those on the nationalist right who oppose populist and socialist movements in the Third World might very well be sitting on the wrong side of the fence. Don't third world populists like Chavez just want for their people what paleoconservatives and white racialists want for theirs? The "Marxism" of these movements that rouses the enmity of the right is just a thin economic veneer over a nationalist core. At this level, the nationalist right in developed nations have more in common with Chavez than with George W. Bush or Pat Robertson.
2005-08-31 21:23 | User Profile
Q,
I think this concern about Marxism is nothing more than a cover for the transnationals being mad about not being able to own the oilfields outright. I'm sure that had something to do with getting the plutocrats aboard for the Iraqi fiasco.
AY,
I was thinking about you today. Good to see you again. I think you are on to something there in your post above.
2005-08-31 21:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Q,
I think this concern about Marxism is nothing more than a cover for the transnationals being mad about not being able to own the oilfields outright. I'm sure that had something to do with getting the plutocrats aboard for the Iraqi fiasco.
AY,
I was thinking about you today. Good to see you again. I think you are on to something there in your post above.[/QUOTE]
Sert,
Thanks for the welcome. By the way, do you have any idea why my signature isn't showing?
2005-08-31 21:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Q,
I think this concern about Marxism is nothing more than a cover for the transnationals being mad about not being able to own the oilfields outright. I'm sure that had something to do with getting the plutocrats aboard for the Iraqi fiasco.
AY,
I was thinking about you today. Good to see you again. I think you are on to something there in your post above.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Sert.
I agree with you that the "Marxist" bugbear is used by the neocons as a propaganda tool to villify any nation that dares assert any kind of self-determination against international finance, whether the movement is left wing or not. It's the best they can do when the "Islamist" label is non-applicable, Pat Robertson's ravings notwithstanding.
That being said, I wish that nationalist movements like Chavez in Venezuela or Quaddafi in Libya would abandon their Marxist trappings altogether and just present themselves as populist nationalists asserting their people's right to self-determination. That would make the battle lines much more clear.
2005-08-31 21:38 | User Profile
AY,
Yes, he should drop the Maxist nonsense. They wouldn't be able to produce the pavlovian response they get from so many brain dead "conservatives".
Chavez seems to be playing this smart with this offer of cheap gasoline to certain communities. If he really wants to make the Neocons mad he'll offer to boost the production of refined products to help the US out. It is little known that there is a strike in Equador that has stopped crude oil shipments. Chavez loaned them the oil so the govt. could make its monthly shipment. I find that interesting.