← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · JoseyWales
Thread ID: 19652 | Posts: 9 | Started: 2005-08-15
2005-08-15 12:44 | User Profile
The Evangelical Lutheran Church of America is expected to adopt a resolution this week promising to work for immigration reforms in the United States, becoming the latest religious denomination to boost its efforts to advocate for immigrants and refugees.
[url]http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20050810-104955-7635r[/url]
2005-08-15 13:05 | User Profile
I'd like to see the chapter and verse to support this PC nonsense.
As it happens, Steve Sailer has just posted on VDARE a very relevant essay on the attempts to find Biblical justification for supporting an invasion of parasites - this is good stuff:
[url]http://www.vdare.com/sailer/050814_wsj.htm[/url]
...
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] Ms. Schaefer Riley continues to misrepresent the meaning of "[B]guest[/B]" and "[B]hospitality[/B]" throughout her essay: [/FONT] [/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][B]"The Episcopal Migration Ministries works with the U.S. government to resettle between 2,500 and 3,000 refugees a year. 'No story in the New Testament fully expresses the belief in hospitality as well as the story of the good Samaritan,' says C. Richard Parkins, the organization's director. He cites other biblical injunctions as well, like Hebrews 13:2: 'Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.'
"What does that "entertaining" consist of?" [/B][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman] [SIZE=3]Good question. Bad answer:
[FONT=Arial][B]"For the Catholic Church, it involves helping immigrants learn English, find homes and jobs, and get their children enrolled in school. Many religious groups provide legal aid so that immigrants can bring relatives over as well."[/B][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]In other words, making them permanent residents rather than temporary guests.
According to the authoritative Vine's Concise Dictionary of Bible Words (1939), however, [U]the ancient Hebrew hospitality described in the Bible, while generous, was distinctly circumscribed in dur[/U]ation:[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Arial][B]"In oriental lands, and still in some countries of belated civilization, it was and is felt to be a sacred duty to receive, feed, lodge, and protect any traveler who might stop at the doorââ¬Â¦ The present practice of the Arabs is the nearest approach to the ancient Hebrew hospitality. A traveler may sit at the door of a perfect stranger and smoke his pipe until the master welcomes him with an evening meal, and may tarry [I]a limited number of days [/I] without inquiry as to his purposes, and depart with a simple " God be with you" as his only compensation." [/B] [Emphasis mine.][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Ms. Schaefer Riley continues:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]"Mr. Parkins, harking back to Hebrews once again, argues 'every person who is resettled here sends a message that there are still nations and communities willing to receive the stranger unconditionally.'"[/B][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][U]In truth, West Asian hospitality has always been complicatedly conditional[/U]. For example, while campaigning among the Pathan tribes near the Khyber Pass in 1897, the young Winston Churchill observed:[/SIZE][/FONT]
[B][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial]"Every family cultivates its vendetta; every clan, its feud... For the purposes of social life ââ¬Â¦ a most elaborate code of honour has been established and is on the whole faithfully observed. A man who knew it and observed it faultlessly might pass unarmed from one end of the frontier to another. The slightest technical slip would, however, be fatal. The life of the Pathan is thus full of interestââ¬Â¦"[My Early Life][/FONT][/FONT][/B]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][U]The most obvious condition is that West Asian hospitality is reciprocal[/U]. It exists to allow travelers to find shelter in harsh landscapes. In contrast, as Alien Nation documented, most countries that send us many immigrants do not welcome American immigrants. [U]Nor does the American Establishment make any effort to demand reciprocity[/U].[/FONT][/SIZE]
...
Really, it's the same principle that even Viking epic [I]Havamal[/I] propounds:
[SIZE=3][FONT=Trebuchet MS][COLOR=Purple][COLOR=Blue][B]35. A guest must depart again on his way, nor stay in the same place ever; if he bide too long on another's bench the loved one soon becomes loathed.[/B][/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[url]http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/havamal.html[/url]
Liberal "Christians" are not doing anything Biblical when they are loading their neighbors with a burden of [I]permanent[/I] parasitical guests!
Besides, there is the cynical fact that behind all this humanitarian posturing, the administrations of liberal denominations are mainly hoping that immigrants will stem the free-falling of their membership...
Petr
2005-08-15 18:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]I'd like to see the chapter and verse to support this PC nonsense.
As it happens, Steve Sailer has just posted on VDARE a very relevant essay on the attempts to find Biblical justification for supporting an invasion of parasites - this is good stuff:
[url]http://www.vdare.com/sailer/050814_wsj.htm[/url]
...
Ms. Schaefer Riley continues to misrepresent the meaning of "[B]guest[/B]" and "[B]hospitality[/B]" throughout her essay:
[QUOTE]"The Episcopal Migration Ministries works with the U.S. government to resettle between 2,500 and 3,000 refugees a year. 'No story in the New Testament fully expresses the belief in hospitality as well as the story of the good Samaritan,' says C. Richard Parkins, the organization's director. He cites other biblical injunctions as well, like Hebrews 13:2: 'Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.' ........................................................................ [/QUOTE]
"Liberal "Christians" are not doing anything Biblical when they are loading their neighbors with a burden of [I]permanent[/I] parasitical guests!
Besides, there is the cynical fact that behind all this humanitarian posturing, the administrations of liberal denominations are mainly hoping that immigrants will stem the free-falling of their membership...
Petr[/QUOTE]Actually the verse (one of the few verses in the Bible I think liberals actually read and purport to head) is Gal 3:28, where of course they claim the find justification for not only internationalism but feminism, although they usually don't stretch this logically to homosexuality and androgony as that would spoil the whole thing.
2005-08-15 18:44 | User Profile
The leadership of all the US denominations, from the Catholic Bishops to the Reverend Benny Hinn, are completely co-opted on this issue. Quite frankly, I think most of them are just not sophisticated enough in their theology to come up with a principled Christian stance against mass, indiscriminate immigration.
2005-08-15 19:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Actually the verse (one of the few verses in the Bible I think liberals actually read and purport to head) is Gal 3:28, where of course they claim the find justification for not only internationalism but feminism, although they usually don't stretch this logically to homosexuality and androgony as that would spoil the whole thing.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that one verse seems to function as the Scriptures' 'Establishment Clause' that liberals drive trucks through to advance their agenda. The best counter I've seen is what you mention, namely stretching it to include homosexuality and transgender issues.
2005-08-15 19:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=SteamshipTime]TQuite frankly, I think most of them are just not sophisticated enough in their theology to come up with a principled Christian stance against mass, indiscriminate immigration.[/QUOTE]
Is it that or are they simply reflective of American society at large, who still seem to be largely in favor of mass, indiscriminate immigration?
2005-08-15 19:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Is it that or are they simply reflective of American society at large, who still seem to be largely in favor of mass, indiscriminate immigration?[/QUOTE]I think you mean the American elites, not society at large, which polls of course have always consistently shown are against immigration.
I think this elite/society at large also shows up in a narrower sense within the Churches themselves.
2005-08-15 19:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]I think you mean the American elites, not society at large, which polls of course have always consistently shown are against immigration.
Against it when casually asked by a pollster or actively opposed enough to make it a benchmark election issue? I can see the former, but not the latter and I think this jives with most church bodies.
2005-08-15 20:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Against it when casually asked by a pollster or actively opposed enough to make it a benchmark election issue? I can see the former, but not the latter and I think this jives with most church bodies.[/QUOTE]Yopu just are overlooking the numerous successes immigration control referenda have always had.
Sure, the average guy on the street anti-immigration people aren't as dedicated, reliable or informed as you and I. That's always the case in political activism. But that's a long way from making the jump to "he that is not for us is against us"