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Thread ID: 19610 | Posts: 10 | Started: 2005-08-13
2005-08-13 08:04 | User Profile
Few Atheists In U.S. Foxholes
by Steve Sailer
UPI, April 22, 2003
The old saying "There are no atheists in foxholes" turns out to be virtually correct, at least for the U.S. armed forces. About 0.1 percent of all American military personnel officially declare themselves to be atheists.
That doesn't mean, however, that all service members belong to a particular religious denomination. About 27 percent do not volunteer to have a specific religious preference inscribed on their dog tags.
Congress prohibited the U.S. Census Bureau from inquiring about the religious affiliations of the general populace, which means there are no official statistics on the size of the various American faiths. The military, however, does ask about religion since it employs nearly 3,000 chaplains to meet soldiers' religious needs. For example, a Marine with a "C" stamped on his dog tag knows that if he is mortally wounded in battle, the corps will attempt to find a Roman Catholic chaplain to give him the last rites.
Overall, 44 percent of Americans in the volunteer military call themselves Protestants and 24 percent say they are Catholics, according to the Defense Manpower Data Center. The other major world religions are not heavily represented: Muslims and Jews make up 0.3 percent each, Buddhists 0.2 percent and Hindus 0.1 percent. The "other" category numbered 5 percent.
The religious makeup of the armed forces is similar to that of the general population. A 2000 Gallup Poll found that 56 percent of all Americans consider themselves Protestant, 27 percent Catholic, 2 percent Jewish, 1 percent Orthodox, 1 percent Mormon, and 5 percent "other." An additional 8 percent gave their religion as "none." That doesn't mean, though, that 92 percent of the public is active in an organized religion. About one of every three Americans said they did not belong to a church or synagogue.
These Gallup figures tend to be higher for each religion than the military's numbers because 8 percent of the public stated their religion was "none," while 27 percent of the armed forces offered "no preference." This does not necessarily mean, however, that men and women in the services are more irreligious than the norm. There are differences between telling a pollster you have no religion and telling the military that you do not wish to specify a religion.
Among those who do state a religion, Protestants and Catholics both appear to be about as well-represented in the military as in the general population.
At 0.3 percent, Jews make up less of the services than they do of the general population, where estimates of the proportion of Jews center around 2 percent.
There are several reasons for this. For example, American Jews tend to be older than the national average with a median age of 41, according to the 2000 National Jewish Population Survey, compared to 35 for Americans as a whole. So, fewer Jews are of military age.
Further, this study found that about half of all Jews have bachelor's degrees, vs. 28 percent overall. While 95 percent of military officers have college degrees, only about 3 percent of enlistees do, and 85 percent of them have never been to college. Therefore, the percentage of Jews in the working class from which most enlistees are recruited is well below the national average.
Muslims, who make up about 1 percent of the population, according to a Center for Immigration Studies report by Daniel Pipes and Khalid Durán, are somewhat more represented in the military on a per capita basis than Jews, but are less represented than Christians.
Steve Sailer ([url]www.iSteve.com[/url]) is a columnist for VDARE.com and the film critic for The American Conservative.
2005-08-13 17:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]Few Atheists In U.S. Foxholes
by Steve Sailer UPI, April 22, 2003
Overall, 44 percent of Americans in the volunteer military call themselves Protestants and 24 percent say they are Catholics, according to the Defense Manpower Data Center. The other major world religions are not heavily represented: Muslims and [COLOR=Red][I]Jews make up 0.3 percent each[/I][/COLOR], Buddhists 0.2 percent and Hindus 0.1 percent. The "other" category numbered 5 percent.
The religious makeup of the armed forces is similar to that of the general population. A 2000 Gallup Poll found that 56 percent of all Americans consider themselves Protestant, 27 percent Catholic, [B][I]2 percent Jewish[/I][/B], 1 percent Orthodox, 1 percent Mormon, and 5 percent "other." An additional 8 percent gave their religion as "none." That doesn't mean, though, that 92 percent of the public is active in an organized religion. About one of every three Americans said they did not belong to a church or synagogue.
..At 0.3 percent, Jews make up less of the services than they do of the general population, where estimates of the proportion of Jews center around 2 percent.
There are several reasons for this. For example, American Jews tend to be older than the national average with a median age of 41, according to the 2000 National Jewish Population Survey, compared to 35 for Americans as a whole. [COLOR=Red][I]So, fewer Jews are of military age.
Further, this study found that about half of all Jews have bachelor's degrees, vs. 28 percent overall. While 95 percent of military officers have college degrees, only about 3 percent of enlistees do, and 85 percent of them have never been to college. Therefore, the percentage of Jews in the working class from which most enlistees are recruited is well below the national average[/I].[/COLOR] Steve Sailer ([url]www.iSteve.com[/url]) is a columnist for VDARE.com and the film critic for The American Conservative.[/QUOTE]Sailer lies in an accepted manner for American conservatives. He does not even pretend to excuse the cowardice of Jews in 5 previous American wars - to include the holy of holies, World War II. His specious prose represents why his side is losing.
2005-08-13 18:54 | User Profile
People like Sailer are doing a lot more constructive work than cranky grumblers like [B]you[/B], Eddy. How exactly is Sailer "lying"?
(Hint: presenting material that merely displeases you does not qualify as "lying"...)
Petr
2005-08-14 13:01 | User Profile
So the old "no atheists in foxholes" saying is damn close to the truth and that is what I have thought all along. I guess if you don't have any meaning in life then ultimately you have nothing to live for and therefore nothing to fight for and die for.
2005-08-14 13:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=aimshi]So the old "no atheists in foxholes" saying is damn close to the truth and that is what I have thought all along. I guess if you don't have any meaning in life then ultimately you have nothing to live for and therefore nothing to fight for and die for.[/QUOTE]Most atheists would say that they give their own lives meaning. Just because something isn't eternal doesn't mean it doesn't have meaning. If the meaning in a person's life vanishes as soon as he dies, then he's not going to miss it, anyway.
Also, even if we assume it's true that life has no meaning without God, that doesn't prove God's existence. It's invalid to argue that "God must exist because, if he doesn't, then I don't like the consequences that entails." Maybe that's not your position, but many people do fall into that trap (not just with respect to religion).
2005-08-14 14:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angler]Most atheists would say that they give their own lives meaning. I'm going by my observations and accumulated knowledge. The vast majority of Westerners believe in God. About the only country in Western Europe where the majority claim not to believe in God is the Netherlands and we know what a stable and healthy society that is. In case you missed the sarcasm the Netherlands is arguably the most sick and degenerate society in the world. So one issue of concern is that atheism is tied with antisocial and generally unhealthy behavior. The more atheist a society the more sympathy you will find for liberalism and even communism and the lower the birthrates will be. If you go by empirical data, atheist societies lose their will to live. It should come as no surprise that the same holds true for atheist individuals. The only atheists I've known have had some serious problems, either they were homosexuals, communists, or out-and-out freaks who painted themselves bone-white cut themselves and dressed to set themselves apart from the norm. I have noticed a VERY strong correlation with atheism and disrespect for traditional authority in general. That is only further evidence that at bottom, atheism is not truly a lack of belief in God but rather a rebellion against divine authority. When one rebels against transcendent authority other forms of traditional authority become rudderless. Morality loses its foundation. For example there is no innate human moral code that proscribes homosexuality. In pagan and atheist societies homosexuality tends to run rampant. Just look at the Netherlands or ancient Greece or Rome. Without acknowledgement of transcendent authority saying "the buck stops here," there is nothing to keep the baser side of humanity from taking over. The only theoretical exception is the State which tends instead to thrive upon degeneracy which provides a continual pretext for its growth, Leviathan style.
Also, even if we assume it's true that life has no meaning without God, that doesn't prove God's existence. It's invalid to argue that "God must exist because, if he doesn't, then I don't like the consequences that entails." Maybe that's not your position, but many people do fall into that trap (not just with respect to religion).[/QUOTE] No, I don't need the negative consequences of atheism to "prove" God's existence. The negative consequences really do disturb me though as they should anyone who wants to prevent the Death of the West.
2005-08-14 15:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE=aimshi]I'm going by my observations and accumulated knowledge. The vast majority of Westerners believe in God. About the only country in Western Europe where the majority claim not to believe in God is the Netherlands and we know what a stable and healthy society that is. In case you missed the sarcasm the Netherlands is arguably the most sick and degenerate society in the world. The Netherlands is not even close to the most degenerate society in the world. And I don't have a link handy, but I seem to remember that a recent poll showed that England is majority-atheist. Some other European countries might have been as well. One notable exception was Poland, which is overwhelmingly Roman Catholic.
So one issue of concern is that atheism is tied with antisocial and generally unhealthy behavior. I don't agree at all. Most atheists I've met were decent, easygoing, upright folks. And I've met some people who were very vocal about Christianity who drank to excess, took advantage of women, etc.
The more atheist a society the more sympathy you will find for liberalism and even communism and the lower the birthrates will be. If you go by empirical data, atheist societies lose their will to live. Let's see this empirical data, please.
It should come as no surprise that the same holds true for atheist individuals. The only atheists I've known have had some serious problems, either they were homosexuals, communists, or out-and-out freaks who painted themselves bone-white cut themselves and dressed to set themselves apart from the norm. LMAO. I can assure you that I don't fit that profile. (Granted, I'm not really an atheist, but if you want to lump agnostics in with atheists for purposes of discussion, I won't complain.) In fact, not a single atheist or agnostic I've known fits that profile. You're describing goths.
Here, let's see how well your model holds up. Another board I sometimes post on is Internet Infidels. Pay them a visit and see if they're all homos and commies (a few are, but most are not):
[url]http://www.iidb.org/vbb/index.php[/url]
Even better: The Internet Infidels Rogues Gallery! You can see a bunch of pictures:
[url]http://www.sneddens.net/iigallery2.htm[/url]
A few goofy ones there, to be sure. But that's true of any group. To me they look exactly like a normal cross-section of society.
It's also worth remembering that most scientists are atheists or agnostics. How many scientists do you see dressing up as goths? And they're no more gay than the general population. Neither are most scientists commies (at least not in America). Face it, man: your generalizations are groundless.
I have noticed a VERY strong correlation with atheism and disrespect for traditional authority in general. This sort of contradicts your claim that atheism is associated with communism, which is a form of statism.
In my case, though, you're right: I'm a strong believer in individual liberty myself and do question all authority. My final authority on all my own actions and thoughts is my own conscience -- and I believe that the human conscience has naturalistic origins. I disdainfully brush aside any notion that "God demands we obey our earthly rulers." As I've said many times before to people: If God wants me to act a certain way, He can tell me that himself (or send an angel). Why wouldn't he want to do that? I don't trust other human beings enough to tell me that "God said do this" or "God said do that." Anybody can lie about God -- and if God is wise, he understands that that's a very good reason for skepticism.
That is only further evidence that at bottom, atheism is not truly a lack of belief in God but rather a rebellion against divine authority. When one rebels against transcendent authority other forms of traditional authority become rudderless. Morality loses its foundation. Before I'll accept that "divine authority," I'll need to see proof that it exists. Otherwise how do I know that someone isn't just using religion to control me? People have used religion to manipulate others since the dawn of man.
For example there is no innate human moral code that proscribes homosexuality. In pagan and atheist societies homosexuality tends to run rampant. Just look at the Netherlands or ancient Greece or Rome. Why should that bother you? I mean, homosexuality disgusts me too, but why do you need to know what other people are up to in their bedrooms?
Most people will reject homosexuality no matter what. Why? It's just the nature of things. Most men are innately attracted to women, and vice versa.
Without acknowledgement of transcendent authority saying "the buck stops here," there is nothing to keep the baser side of humanity from taking over. And what if there IS no transcendent authority? Remember: Just because we don't like the consequences of X doesn't mean that X isn't true.
The only theoretical exception is the State which tends instead to thrive upon degeneracy which provides a continual pretext for its growth, Leviathan style. The State depends on obedience and the loyalty of its subjects, which is exactly what Christianity demands (at least up to the point where it doesn't conflict with "God's law").
No, I don't need the negative consequences of atheism to "prove" God's existence. The negative consequences really do disturb me though as they should anyone who wants to prevent the Death of the West.[/QUOTE]Can you prove God's existence by some other means? If so, the world is waiting to hear about it.
As for the death of the West, I place the blame for that primarily on multiculturalism -- which, by the way, many Christian churches are pushing strongly for.
2005-08-15 17:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]People like Sailer are doing a lot more constructive work than cranky grumblers like [B]you[/B], Eddy. How exactly is Sailer "lying"?
(Hint: presenting material that merely displeases you does not qualify as "lying"...)
Petr[/QUOTE]The snotnose types. If you understood numbers somewhat, you would quickly understand.
2005-09-05 23:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE] How exactly is Sailer "lying"?[/QUOTE]Sailer is suggesting that it is not the case that the percentage of grunts with college degrees is low because a group of dastardly poltroons conveniently overrepresented among college graduates such as the Jews are shamelessly shirking their duty, but rather that the reason that Jews are avoiding putting themselves in harm's way is because they are thus overrepresented.
In other words, Hymie really wants to go 'over there', but the talismanic power of sheepskin decorated with fancy embossed writing prevents him from doing so.
This is the logical equivalent of inferring that spending a lot of money buying lavish yachts causes one to be wealthy.
The Finlandian "Aryans" certainly are the brightest tools in the Turko-Urgic shed. My Turkic neighbors to the east, the redoubtable Bulgars, stand in awe.
2005-09-06 00:27 | User Profile
[COLOR=Blue][FONT=Arial][B][I] - "The Finlandian "Aryans" certainly are the brightest tools in the Turko-Urgic shed. My Turkic neighbors to the east, the redoubtable Bulgars, stand in awe."[/I][/B][/FONT][/COLOR]
Oh, how mature. You think lame insults like that bother me? Gypsies are "Aryans" too, you know.
Petr