← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · JoseyWales
Thread ID: 19500 | Posts: 21 | Started: 2005-08-08
2005-08-08 16:48 | User Profile
Has anyone noticed the most recent big incentives that the major American automakers are giving out ? It seems suspecious to me that they are so desperate that something like this taking place. Supposedly its had a positive effect on stock prices such as GM, at least in the last few weeks. I wonder though, this propping up of dwindling sales is possibly a sign of things to come as consumers in this country start to suffer more financial hardship.
2005-08-08 17:07 | User Profile
Josey? I havent hear anything in the US but in India GM is giving away 5,000 rupees (about $650.00, I think) in gold with the purchase of every car.
Also read that GM is going to let go of 10% of their white collar workers in the US, forgot the number.
About india and gold...... the people in India are holding at this time around 200 billions (must be dollars) in gold, as you know when ever a girls gets married they are giving gold as presents, at this time there are 47 millions women between the ages of 17 and 29 who are to be married.
If each of them are given "only" 1/3 of and ounce that by itself would drain the world market.
If I remember right the article said that India holds 18% of the worlds gold.
While the info that I give you may not be right on the money I know that it is in the ball park, read to much....can't remember everything.
2005-08-08 17:35 | User Profile
GM is no longer an enterprise being operated for profit for its owners. It is a co-operative being run to pay benefits to current and former employees. Eventually, the owners will pull their capital.
GM's bonds have been downgraded to junk. According to various legal standards for fiduciaries and according to the terms of many mutual funds, this should have triggered a whole lot of selling of GM securities. It hasn't. Nobody wants to trigger the avalanche.
I have read that Ford is in no better shape.
2005-08-08 17:53 | User Profile
The so-called Big Three are all in dire straits, mostly because their product sucks. And they do suck.
Anyway, the corrupt leaders of the Big Three are salivating at the chance to open up their new plants in China. Look for them to bankrupt the current operations and screw every worker over.
It's kinda like what they did to the old Trolley car systems that were ubiquitous all across America's cities back in the day. Run it into the ground and bankrupt it.
2005-08-08 19:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]Anyway, the corrupt leaders of the Big Three are salivating at the chance to open up their new plants in China. Look for them to bankrupt the current operations and screw every worker over. [/QUOTE] There's plenty of blame to go around. With the benefit of hindsight, we can say that it was foolish for Detroit to think that nobody else in the world would ever figure out how to market cars to Americans.
Another huge blooper was defined benefit pensions viz. defined contribution pensions. I had an old labor lawyer relate to me how he told his clients in the 80's that they were crazy to agree to defined benefit plans. They gloated about their 10-20% returns and told him he was crazy. The managers thought their contributions would always be low and the unions were happy to sell such a plan to their membership.
2005-08-08 19:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=SteamshipTime]There's plenty of blame to go around. With the benefit of hindsight, we can say that it was foolish for Detroit to think that nobody else in the world would ever figure out how to market cars to Americans.
Another huge blooper was defined benefit pensions viz. defined contribution pensions. I had an old labor lawyer relate to me how he told his clients in the 80's that they were crazy to agree to defined benefit plans. They gloated about their 10-20% returns and told him he was crazy. The managers thought their contributions would always be low and the unions were happy to sell such a plan to their membership.[/QUOTE]
Maybe the Big Three just want to break the unions up?
2005-08-09 00:27 | User Profile
I just spoke with a large Ford and GM OEM supplier today. He said they weren't making any money. Their sales to Ford and GM are off about 30%. He said Ford and GM were presently not building many new cars, just seling off the inventory, dispite the good sales numbers for July. All July was about, was selling off inventory.
2005-08-09 01:36 | User Profile
Just wait till the cars from China starts selling in the US, they have the dealership ready to go, this will be the last nail in the American cars companys.
The Americans cars company should try building mini-cars for one passenger like Italy is doing, they do look good and very safe with a full cage around the passenger at a top speed of 70 mph and around 76 mpg......we need it.
2005-08-09 03:30 | User Profile
Here on the West Coast hardly anyone buys American sedans or mini-vans. And I see a Buick probably only once a week.
2005-08-09 04:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Here on the West Coast hardly anyone buys American sedans or mini-vans. And I see a Buick probably only once a week.[/QUOTE]
I happen to own both an American minivan and a Buick. I have no bias toward buying American. But, both these vehicles were competatively priced and I'm so far happy with their performance. But, the US auto industry enjoys a lot of protectionism (e.g. 25% terrifs on Japanese pickups).
2005-08-09 11:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]Maybe the Big Three just want to break the unions up?[/QUOTE] If US manufacturing is to survive they better. I understand the sentiment for unions but the fact is they would not exist without government externalities.
There is something else at work here. Roads are subsidized so the cost of auto travel is artificially low. The entire auto industry is overbuilt, imho. GM and Ford need to be broken up and have their more profitable units auctioned off. The industry still operates like it's the 1950's.
2005-08-09 15:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Happy Hacker]I happen to own both an American minivan and a Buick. I have no bias toward buying American. But, both these vehicles were competatively priced and I'm so far happy with their performance. But, the US auto industry enjoys a lot of protectionism (e.g. 25% terrifs on Japanese pickups).[/QUOTE] As basic transportation, they are OK.
2005-08-09 16:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]As basic transportation, they are OK.[/QUOTE]
They're more than OK. The minivan (a Grand Caravan) is a workhorse. The middle and back bench seats can be removed, so the van can hold far more stuff than any SUV (e.g. I can carry about 50 full size sheets of plywood and still have room for a bunch of other stuff). With the seats, it seats 7 comfortably.
The Buick (a Century) is a sweet car. It has the feel of quality, drives smoothly, and is full of features like automatic headlights that make driving very pleasant.
2005-08-09 16:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]As basic transportation, they are OK.[/QUOTE] If you are talking about performance and quality right off the lot, I don't think American cars are worse than imports at all. Long-term reliability is the area in which the imports (particularly from Japan) have the edge. However, I should add that I have a Chevy Silverado with 193,000 miles on it that still runs great.
2005-08-09 18:33 | User Profile
Ponce, your idea is great, except that the cars you describe simply don't sell in the US or Canadian markets.
Chrysler took a gamble with the return to the classic American niche ...big mega-torque V8 sedans with rear wheel drive. GM and Ford are wishing badly they had done the same... they can only play catch-up as it takes years to design and bring to market a dedicated platform for such a vehicle. Here's a segment where the big 3 could exploit their advantage (as they all have in full-size trucks), and GM and Ford are stuck playing 2nd fiddle to Accord and Camry.
Speaking of Toyota and Honda, it's a misconception to speak generally of "Japanese quality" when those are the only two Japanese makes to routinely post superior reliabilty survey stats. Isuzu, Mazda, Nissan and Mitsubishi epecially have nothing to brag about compared with the Big 3.
2005-08-09 20:22 | User Profile
As crowded as the roads and cities are getting and with the price of gasoline what is I really believe that the time for the small car is here.
On the freeway you can make a three lane out of a two land for small cars and with 76 mpg I would be one of the first ones to buy it.
If you stop for to long you will freeze in place (like and engine) and that's the problem with the big three.
IN THE NEWS NOW.....China making cars tha cost only $5,000 and gives you 46 mph, you get what you pay for but it is a good start.
Gasoline in LA $3.00 per gallon.
My price is still at $1.69 with 556 gallons still to my credit.
2005-08-10 04:06 | User Profile
People pay premium to buy Japanese. True for minivans too. Chrysler can sell theirs only because of the huge incentives usually offered.
Trucks and SUVs are still an American manufacturers' domain, with the Japs making inroads lately.
Buicks? It's a boat. It must be a different Universe on the West Coast, but even the V-8 Chrysler sedans aren't popular. Those who want sporty buy German cars or Subaru WRX.
2005-08-10 06:15 | User Profile
At this point commercial fleet sales are the only thing keeping the big 3 here in the states afloat. If the imports would start making commercial vans thereby competing with the domestic big 3 theyââ¬â¢d sink them within a couple of years. Iââ¬â¢ve wondered for years why they havenââ¬â¢t done so yet.
2005-08-10 15:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]People pay premium to buy Japanese. True for minivans too. Chrysler can sell theirs only because of the huge incentives usually offered.
Trucks and SUVs are still an American manufacturers' domain, with the Japs making inroads lately.
Buicks? It's a boat. It must be a different Universe on the West Coast, but even the V-8 Chrysler sedans aren't popular. Those who want sporty buy German cars or Subaru WRX.[/QUOTE]
What you say about incentives is true for most Chryslers, except for the 300/Charger/Magnum. They're selling like hotcakes without incentives. The big 3 are chasing their tails trying outdo Accord and Camry. They should all be following Chryslers lead with the LX cars, and have the Nips playing catch-up for once.
2005-08-10 15:32 | User Profile
They are selling like hotcakes to the same crowd that is buying trucks. True, there are many Americans who'd love to buy American, provided they can justify the purchase. This segment of population will still buy American as long as they are offered a more "spicy" product like you've described. But these kind of cars will never make volumes. The majority still need an Accord/Camry-sized box that never needs repairs and doesn't look too cheap.
The new Chevrolet offerings, like the Cobalt or Malibu are butt-ugly, after the novelty wears off. Looks like the quality of having an understated but still reasonably pleasing design is too difficult to master. And once people want entry-luxury, they look at the upscale versions of the same, meaning the Jap three again. But again, I am aware that what cars people drive varies greatly with location.
2005-08-10 17:04 | User Profile
Can anyone tell me of an American 15 yearas old car with 156,000 miles that the only thing that has gone wrong with it is a fan belt and a righ front wheel bearing?
Love my Toy, a small secret.....never take your car to a mechanic to do your regular maintenance, when you do you will find later on something wrong with the car.