← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Gabrielle
Thread ID: 19465 | Posts: 32 | Started: 2005-08-07
2005-08-07 00:10 | User Profile
CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - About 70 anti-war protesters shouted "bring the troops home" from Iraq near President Bush's ranch on Saturday, prompting two White House officials to come out to meet with mothers who lost children in combat in Iraq.
National Security Adviser Steven Hadley and Deputy White House chief of staff Joe Hagin listened to the concerns of Cindy Sheehan and five or six other mothers in a meeting that lasted about 45 minutes, White House spokesman Trent Duffy said. Duffy said Sheehan told the two officials she appreciated the meeting.
"I want to ask the president, why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?" Sheehan, 48, Vacaville, California, told reporters before meeting with Hadley and Hagin. Sheehan blames Bush for the death of her son, Army Specialist Casey Sheehan, 24, killed on April 4, 2004, in Sadr City, Baghdad.
The protest coincided with release of a Newsweek poll that said 61 percent of Americans disapproved of the way Bush was handling the situation in Iraq. The poll came after more than two dozen Americans were killed in the past week in Iraq.
Newsweek said it was Bush's lowest rating on Iraq and the first time it had dropped below 40 percent in its poll. Pentagon officials have said maintaining public support for the war is key to the troops' morale.
The group of protesters, including U.S. veterans from the Iraq and Vietnam wars, were loud yet peaceful and McLennan County sheriff's deputies, trying to avoid arrests, stopped them on a road about 5 miles from Bush's ranch on a hot August day.
"W. killed her son! W. killed her son!" the crowd shouted. They also shouted "Bring the troops home now" and held up signs with slogans such as "Impeach the Chicken-Hawk-in-Chief."
The protesters, many who came from a peace rally in Dallas, first drove toward the ranch in a school bus painted red, white and blue. It was stopped at a police checkpoint and the protesters got out and walked.
Police allowed the group to walk on the side of the road for about a half mile but then stopped them when some in the group walked on the street itself.
After some protesters left, a small group led by Sheehan vowed to stage a vigil on the side of the road until someone representing the White House came out to talk.
White House officials were aware of the protest and Duffy said before the meeting, "We mourn the loss of every life and Americans deeply appreciate those who have made the supreme sacrifice. The way to honor that sacrifice is to complete the mission so that their lives were not lost in vain."
[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050806/ts_nm/bush_dc[/url]
** Our President should have asked the silly woman why she permitted her son to join the service if she didnââ¬â¢t want him to go to war? After all, her son was not drafted! **
2005-08-07 00:30 | User Profile
When folks enlist in the Armed Forces they do it for a variety of reasons. Believe it or not, some of them join up with the idea of serving and if push comes to shove, defending America. Iraq doesn't pass the test. There wasn't a good reason to go to war and there isn't a good reason to stay involved. If Bush one day winds up losing face over this, good, let that be an example to the next fool that is elected that you only go to war when you have no other choice.
I hope one day to not only see this administration put on trial for war crimes, I hope they can share ajoining defendants' seats with the Clinton Administration.
2005-08-07 00:32 | User Profile
Our President should have asked the silly woman why she permitted her son to join the service if she didnââ¬â¢t want him to go to war? After all, her son was not drafted!
Bush lied about the WMD, silly........
2005-08-07 00:40 | User Profile
Our President should have asked the silly woman why she permitted her son to join the service if she didnââ¬â¢t want him to go to war? After all, her son was not drafted!
Bush lied about "Mission Accomplished" and the great welcome the empire troops were getting: flowers and candy and all.
Also, Bush did not let her or her son know about how he is beholden to AIPAC.
2005-08-07 01:04 | User Profile
Our President should have asked the silly woman why she permitted her son to join the service if she didnââ¬â¢t want him to go to war? After all, her son was not drafted!
Presidente Bush and his pond-scum neo-cons are grossly ill equipped mentally to fight a war, any war. What C-in-C would continue to send out under equipped troops day after day in HumVees, and have them blown up day after day, without making one single tactical change? Not one! They keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
This woman and her son were not aware of how incompetent power hungry pond-scum neo-cons can be.
2005-08-07 02:40 | User Profile
When folks enlist in the Armed Forces they do it for a variety of reasons. Believe it or not, some of them join up with the idea of serving and if push comes to shove, defending America. Iraq doesn't pass the test. There wasn't a good reason to go to war and there isn't a good reason to stay involved. If Bush one day winds up losing face over this, good, let that be an example to the next fool that is elected that you only go to war when you have no other choice.
I hope one day to not only see this administration put on trial for war crimes, I hope they can share ajoining defendants' seats with the Clinton Administration.[/QUOTE]
I honestly don't listen to them.
2005-08-07 02:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CWRWinger]Our President should have asked the silly woman why she permitted her son to join the service if she didnââ¬â¢t want him to go to war? After all, her son was not drafted!
Presidente Bush and his pond-scum neo-cons are grossly ill equipped mentally to fight a war, any war. What C-in-C would continue to send out under equipped troops day after day in HumVees, and have them blown up day after day, without making one single tactical change? Not one! They keep doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results.
This woman and her son were not aware of how incompetent power hungry pond-scum neo-cons can be.[/QUOTE]
Bull...
2005-08-07 03:34 | User Profile
Bush can't answer those mothers anymore than he can answer why the Federal Reseve is a Jew Lobby. God Bless them for speaking up and mouthing off to Bush and his obscene war in which over 150,000 innocent people have died. His face is toilet paper and the Patriotism of our people is a tool he used like a screwdriver that he threw away. The man is responsible for widespread death and is not to be respected at all. I hate him.
2005-08-07 13:41 | User Profile
CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- The angry mother of a fallen U.S. soldier staged a protest near President Bush's ranch Saturday, demanding an accounting from Bush of how he has conducted the war in Iraq.
Supported by more than 50 demonstrators who chanted, "W. killed her son!" Cindy Sheehan told reporters: "I want to ask the president, 'Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?"'
Sheehan, 48, didn't get to see Bush, but did talk about 45 minutes with national security adviser Steve Hadley and deputy White House chief of staff Joe Hagin, who went out to hear her concerns.
Appreciative of their attention, yet undaunted, Sheehan said she planned to continue her roadside vigil, except for a few breaks, until she gets to talk to Bush. Her son, Casey, 24, was killed in Sadr City, Iraq, on April 4, 2004. He was an Army specialist, a Humvee mechanic.
"They (the advisers) said we are in Iraq because they believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, that the world's a better place with Saddam gone and that we're making the world a safer place with what we're doing over there," Sheehan said in a telephone interview after the meeting.
"They were very respectful. They were nice men. I told them Iraq was not a threat to the United States and that now people are dead for nothing. I told them I wouldn't leave until I talked to George Bush."
She said Hagin told her, "I want to assure you that he (Bush) really does care."
"And I said if he does care, why doesn't he come out and talk to me."
Sheehan arrived in Crawford aboard a bus painted red, white and blue and emblazoned with the words, "Impeachment Tour." Sheehan, from Vacaville, California, had been attending a Veterans for Peace convention in Dallas.
The bus, trailed by about 20 cars of protesters and reporters, drove at about 15 mph toward Bush's ranch. After several miles, they parked the vehicles and began to march, in stifling heat, farther down the narrow country road.
Flanked by miles of pasture, Sheehan spoke with reporters while clutching two photographs, one of her son in uniform, and the other, a baby picture, when he was seven months old.
She said she decided to come to Crawford a few days ago after Bush said that fallen U.S. troops had died for a noble cause and that the mission must be completed.
"I want to ask the president, `Why did you kill my son? What did my son die for?" she said, her voice cracking with emotion. "Last week, you said my son died for a noble cause' and I want to ask him what that noble cause is?"
White House spokesman Trent Duffy said response that Bush also wants the troops to return home safely.
"Many of the hundreds of families the president has met with know their loved one died for a noble cause and that the best way to honor their sacrifice is to complete the mission," Duffy said.
"It is a message the president has heard time and again from those he has met with and comforted. Like all Americans, he wants the troops home as soon as possible."
The group marched about a half-mile before local law enforcement officials stopped them at a bend in the road, still four to five miles from the ranch's entrance. Capt. Kenneth Vanek of the McLennan County Sheriff's Office said the group was stopped because some marchers ignored instructions to walk in the ditch beside the road, not on the road.
"If they won't cooperate, we won't," Vanek said.
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/08/06/bush.peace.mom.ap/index.html[/url]
Again, why did this woman allow her son to joined the service? Did someone draft her son?
2005-08-07 13:45 | User Profile
Here's your answer again: [QUOTE=Sertorius]When folks enlist in the Armed Forces they do it for a variety of reasons. Believe it or not, some of them join up with the idea of serving and if push comes to shove, defending America. Iraq doesn't pass the test. There wasn't a good reason to go to war and there isn't a good reason to stay involved. If Bush one day winds up losing face over this, good, let that be an example to the next fool that is elected that you only go to war when you have no other choice.
I hope one day to not only see this administration put on trial for war crimes, I hope they can share ajoining defendants' seats with the Clinton Administration.[/QUOTE]
2005-08-07 14:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Here's your answer again:[/QUOTE]
[SIZE=5]Your answer lacks reality! [/SIZE]
Why didnââ¬â¢t the boy's father explain to their son that he could be sent anywhere in the world to be used as nothing more than cannon fodder? ** They had to know about the Korean War and the Vietnam War! **
2005-08-07 14:10 | User Profile
Seeing how you think that, then, tell me why Bush sent them over there? [rhetorical question]
2005-08-07 14:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Seeing how you think that, then, tell me why Bush sent them over there? [rhetorical question][/QUOTE]
[SIZE=5]Irrelevant question![/SIZE]
That has nothing to do with this woman pestering the president. She should be asking herself and her husband why they didnââ¬â¢t do their job as parents and warn their son about the consequences of joining the military.
You guys are falling for their emotional ploys. Think for yourselvesââ¬Â¦
2005-08-07 15:03 | User Profile
No, it gets to the crux of the matter. [QUOTE]Your answer lacks reality![/QUOTE] No, I speak from first hand experience, something which is sadly lacking in Congress and the Bush Administration.
2005-08-07 16:30 | User Profile
Very characteristic that the Chimp (he has lost and does not deserve the dignity of the term President of the United States) sent out Stephen Hadley, ally of Richard Cheney and a principal neocon architect of the war-its lies, incompetence, arrogance, all of it, to talk to Cindy Sheehan. That shows who does the thinking and talking in this administration. They knew they had to make some kind of response, and they knew that the Chimp can't think on his feet or deal with any kind of criticism. They're aware that 61% of the American people now disapprove of the way the Chimp (read the neocon administration)(and their neocon camp followers in the media) are handling the Iraq War.
They also know that some kind of [B]accusation[/B] against Cindy that she and her husband were too [B]STUPID[/B] not to see that their son might be shipped out and killed in an unjust, immoral, incompetent, illegal, and self-destructive war - was not going to cut it.
Those are the words you're putting into [I]Hadley's[/I] mouth, Gabrielle. I hope you keep doing it. You're putting more nails in the Chimp's and the neocons' political and moral coffin.
2005-08-07 16:45 | User Profile
You guys are falling for their emotional ploys. Think for yourselvesââ¬Â¦
If it was in my power, I would ban you from this forum simply because you claim to be female. That alone disqualifies your participation.
2005-08-07 16:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sather_Gate]Very characteristic that the Chimp (he has lost and does not deserve the dignity of the term President of the United States) sent out Stephen Hadley, ally of Richard Cheney and a principal neocon architect of the war-its lies, incompetence, arrogance, all of it, to talk to Cindy Sheehan. That shows who does the thinking and talking in this administration. They knew they had to make some kind of response, and they knew that the Chimp can't think on his feet or deal with any kind of criticism. They're aware that 61% of the American people now disapprove of the way the Chimp (read the neocon administration)(and their neocon camp followers in the media) are handling the Iraq War.
They also know that some kind of [B]accusation[/B] against Cindy that she and her husband were too [B]STUPID[/B] not to see that their son might be shipped out and killed in an unjust, immoral, incompetent, illegal, and self-destructive war - was not going to cut it.
Those are the words you're putting into [I]Hadley's[/I] mouth, Gabrielle. I hope you keep doing it. You're putting more nails in the Chimp's and the neocons' political and moral coffin.[/QUOTE]
I never said ââ¬Åtoo stupidââ¬Â... but they have no right to go whining to Bush because their son volunteered to join the military. Now if he had been drafted, that would have been a different story. Think!!! The media is playing the tune they want you to dance to, and you guys are dancing to it! Lets face itââ¬Â¦we all know who runs the media. Do you really think they truly give two hoots about some dead goy??? Hello! You guys are not reasoningââ¬Â¦youââ¬â¢re resorting to emotionalism!!
2005-08-07 16:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CWRWinger]You guys are falling for their emotional ploys. Think for yourselvesââ¬Â¦
If it was in my power, I would ban you from this forum simply because you claim to be female. That alone disqualifies your participation.[/QUOTE]
Silence, CWRWinger![img]http://www.gombergkites.com/LM-DUCK.JPG[/img]
2005-08-07 17:33 | User Profile
Gab: Silence, CWRWinger!
NEVER!!
I do support a 100% female USA armed forces, though. And affirmative action in IRS hiring policies. See, I balance things out.
2005-08-07 17:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CWRWinger]Gab: Silence, CWRWinger!
NEVER!!
I do support a 100% female USA armed forces, though. And affirmative action in IRS hiring policies. See, I balance things out.[/QUOTE]
Why am I not surprised, duckie?
2005-08-07 18:47 | User Profile
Sert, this lady's genuine grief is being used as a political tool.
Like anyone who loses a son, she is in pain. Probably still in denial, and doubtless thought her son was joining the Army to get money for college.
The Blame game is a tired old political saw. When we took the King's Shilling, we swore as honorable men to do our duty. The lady is shaming her son's honor with this drama queen stunt.
That said, I don't blame her pain and anger one bit. Many a father in my neighborhood, growing up, dealt with theh pain and anger of a dead or mangled son about 35 years ago. :thumbd:
The Army exists for one reason, or should, to fight and win America's wars. Period. It has become, and is sold as, a jobs progream, and step out and a step up. I think she just hates the reality of what her son chose to do.
Whether we like it or not, and most folks here don't, America went to war. That is part of the contract. If you want anyone's head, let's look at how many general officers failed to act as stand up men on this war not being in America's compelling national interest. If Zinni and other credible voices were being ignored by the serving careerists, the what kind of competent military advice was Pres Bush getting? Who went public and said "The Emperor has no clothes, he is being swindled!" Who?
He got, thanks to Rumsfeld's ability to work peple for who they are, "We don't want to get axed like Shinseki" as a response to the order of "shut up and color."
Given the known problems in leadership and vision at the top, I am still impressed with what the troops have accomplished. Sort of like a rowboat making it across a raging river without a functioning rudder.
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Here's your answer again:[/QUOTE]
2005-08-07 19:35 | User Profile
AE,
I understand what you are saying and agree mostly with the part about once you sign up you go where told. What I am sick of is these idiots in high office that send the boys to all sorts of places where there is no need for them to be. Various administrations have been doing this stuff for almost a 100 years and like those prior, the Bush gang figures they can pull that rally around the flag stuff again to silence criticism and I for one, say "enough". The more they do it, the weaker the nation as a whole becomes. Don't think I am singling out Bush, I only use him as not only as the head man, but also as representative of the corrupt people he has chosen to surround himself with.
Now, as far as Cindy Sheehan goes, I agree with you. She does allow herself to be used and I based this on hearing her on the radio on two occassions. She is as emotional about this as Gabrielle is over Bush. Having noted this, she has my sympathy. What prompted my initial reply was Gabrielle's comment at the bottom about not having to volunteer. The idiots on the radio and tv have been using that as an excuse to avoid talking about the Bush Administration's role in this mess. It sounds to me like they are saying that it is the troops' own fault for all the stupidity that has transpired. That excuse these Neocons use is an insult to everyone who has ever volunteered. particulary in view of their own efforts to avoid service.
I really resent the way these morally corrupt, cowardly and greedy people abuse patriotism. I didn't like it when they did it to me and my comrades and I don't like seeing their type doing it again.
One day they will go too far with this and no one will volunteer, or allowed themselves to be drafted.
2005-08-07 20:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]AE, One day they will go too far with this and no one will volunteer, or allowed themselves to be drafted.[/QUOTE] Yep. And then, who will defend the borders of our nation, and more importantly, as a Roman asked once . . .
Quis Custodiet ipsos custodes (Who shall guard the guards?)
2005-08-07 20:36 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angeleyes]Sert, this lady's genuine grief is being used as a political tool.[/QUOTE] Just as Cheney, Rove, Bush jr., and the neocon dual nationalists cynically used the grief of the nation after 911 to whip up this Iraq war, so that they could get re-elected, make a lot of money for Halliburton etc., punish Muslims in general on Israel's behalf, grab the oilfields, spread "democracy" meaning imperial rule, all the good stuff - strictly political. Also unethical, immoral, and unConstitutional, and dishonorable.
[QUOTE]2. The Blame game is a tired old political saw. When we took the King's Shilling, we swore as honorable men to do our duty. The lady is shaming her son's honor with this drama queen stunt. [/QUOTE] Her son will never lose his honor before God, any more than any soldier who fought for Kaiser Bill or Hitler or the Japanese Emperor or Caligula. He as an individual certainly does not lose his honor with those of us who object to this dishonorable war. He might even be proud of what his mother is doing. It is a patriotic act, in the sense of demanding that this government return to historic American (and Christian) ideals.
[QUOTE]The Army exists for one reason, or should, to fight and win America's wars. Period. It has become, and is sold as, a jobs progream, and step out and a step up. I think she just hates the reality of what her son chose to do. [/QUOTE] Right. There needs to be truth in advertising: this is the American Imperial Army, not the Army of the Republic, of Washington and Lee, the Constitutional Republic which Bush, the neocons, the Congress, and most of the common people have effectively killed. They really should get a new flag. Not the flag of my father, and my grandfather, and my great-great grandfather, and all[B] my[/B] ancestors going back to the Revolution and Plymouth Rock.
[QUOTE]Given the known problems in leadership and vision at the top, I am still impressed with what the troops have accomplished. Sort of like a rowboat making it across a raging river without a functioning rudder.[/QUOTE] If they manage to survive, then do their part - including the officers and generals - to make sure this doesn't happen again - meaning removal of these dishonorable people who brought this on all of us and the world, they will have done their part as Americans.
2005-08-08 00:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE][QUOTE=Gabrielle] but they have no right to go whining to Bush because their son volunteered to join the military.[/QUOTE]Yes, their son volunteered, to join the military just like a lot of young people do and he went to Iraq probably pissed off about 9/11 and thinking he was fighting the terrorists who hate our freedom, and of course, there are those non-existant WMDs. In a way you are correct, yes there son did volunteer to join the military, but they have every reason to be pissed off about the lies that sent him to Iraq and caused his death. What was it he really died for? Israel? politicians big, fat wallets,etc,?
[QUOTE] The media is playing the tune they want you to dance to, and you guys are dancing to it! Lets face itââ¬Â¦we all know who runs the media. Do you really think they truly give two hoots about some dead goy??? Hello! You guys are not reasoningââ¬Â¦youââ¬â¢re resorting to emotionalism!! [/QUOTE]Of course they don't care any more about all the dead "goys" than those who sent him there, which, lets face it, is also made up by many members of that very special tribe, once again.
[QUOTE] If it was in my power, I would ban you from this forum simply because you claim to be female. That alone disqualifies your participation. [/QUOTE] :thumbd:
2005-08-08 02:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle]Our President should have asked the silly woman why she permitted her son to join the service if she didnââ¬â¢t want him to go to war? After all, her son was not drafted![/QUOTE]Maybe he joined against her will?
Anyway, of course anyone who joins the US military at this point in time is making a huge mistake, and so are any parents who don't try to stop their kids from doing so. But most of them aren't aware of the real reasons why this is the case. They've been suckered by empty slogans that leaders and pseudo-patriots like to bandy about -- crap about "wearing the uniform," "serving one's country," "answering the call," blah blah blah. Patriotism and flag-waving are really just tools used cynically by leaders (of all nations) to get people to sign their lives away on the dotted line, to be used for whatever selfish purpose the politicians and their handlers see fit.
Try to tell soldiers (or their parents) that they've been fooled, and they'll probably refuse to believe it. They'll probably just get angry. The truth that they've been used for reasons having nothing to do with national security would be too painful for most to accept. The woman in the article who is complaining that her son died for nothing is one of a few who are courageous enough to acknowledge the truth.
The US military has only ONE legitimate purpose, and that is to defend America from attack. We don't even really need a standing infantry, since Americans are already well-armed and could easily resist an attempted occupation even if only 1% of Americans fought. But we need people to maintain the nuclear arsenal as a deterrent, to patrol the skies and borders, etc. And if some hostile nation were to block off an important trade route or something along those lines, we'd have to send our Navy and Air Force to put an end to that. These sorts of things would be justified. But no one should ever join the US military expecting to be used to invade a foreign country on the basis of lies. And every single US soldier who deserts rather than be sent to Iraq is perfectly justified. No solider has any duty to put himself in harm's way for anything other than defending the US. He wouldn't be dishonoring himself by refusing to do so. The dishonor is entirely on the part of those who recruited him for a legitimate purpose (defending the country) and then tried to use him as part of an illegitimate invasion force. Bait-and-switch is a classic con game, and that's what today's US military uses in recruiting. It's good that fewer people are falling for it today than ever before.
2005-08-08 07:13 | User Profile
This is what the vicious fools at FR are saying about the matter.... [url]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1458880/posts[/url]
Can't wait till they quickly organize a "freeP" of Cindy....Rove, Cheney, Chimp, and assorted neocon masters and commanders will be so tickled for their support....
2005-08-08 07:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sather_Gate]This is what the vicious fools at FR are saying about the matter.... [url]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1458880/posts[/url]
Can't wait till they quickly organize a "freeP" of Cindy....Rove, Cheney, Chimp, and assorted neocon masters and commanders will be so tickled for their support....[/QUOTE]What a loathsome bunch of Jew-loving worms.
2005-08-08 16:19 | User Profile
To: F14 Pilot I guess she was for the millions in mass graves in Iraq and Saddam bombing Jews paying 25k a pop.
It was HER SON'S choice to join, not hers.
Saddam was killing about 100,000 a year. So since we've been there, we have killed lots of terrorists and about 175,000 from Iraq are not in mass graves.
This woman is a dufuss, and I think she dishonors her country and son's memory. 10 posted on 08/07/2005 6:51:50 PM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
"Free" Republic- the All Union Society for the Promotion of Stupidity and Ignorance.
2005-08-08 16:49 | User Profile
Cindy Sheehan has written numerous, hard hitting & reasoned articles concerning her son's death.
Many can be found at libertoonian LewRockwell.com
2005-08-08 18:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=starr]
:thumbd:[/QUOTE]
Starr, I think CWRWinger is a politically correct kind of guy. I think he wants Tex to rename his site ââ¬ÅTraditional, American Conservatism for and from the Common Man and Woman. :tongue:
2005-08-08 18:43 | User Profile
Anyone who believes America's War of Aggression Against Iraq was/is all "worth it" is an A$$hole. Absolutely [U]NOTHING[/U] good has been done there. Period.
The rotten corrupt judaized effeminate lying sob's in Washington DC are to blame for starting a disastrous war of choice and aggression and getting hundreds of thousands of people killed in the process.
I say, POWER TO CINDY SHEEHAN
and
F**K FREEREPBULBIC.