← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · JoseyWales
Thread ID: 19393 | Posts: 42 | Started: 2005-08-02
2005-08-02 22:21 | User Profile
My grandpa grew up listening to him as a young man. I like listening to a few of his songs. "Red River Valley" and "Hobo Lullaby" are two good ones.
2005-08-02 23:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=JoseyWales]My grandpa grew up listening to him as a young man. I like listening to a few of his songs. "Red River Valley" and "Hobo Lullaby" are two good ones.[/QUOTE]We got into a little discussion on Guthrie on [URL=http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showpost.php?p=106949&postcount=1]this thread[/URL]. Actually I was fond of of Guthrie, my mother used to always hmm "Roll On Columbia" whenever we took trips to Eastern Washington. And of course classics like "This Land Is Your Land" even if our Oklahoma Constitution says that was just a communist themed retort to "God Bless America" with a few Bolshie lines history has merciully forgotten.
2005-08-03 00:39 | User Profile
I believe Woody and Arlo are Jews.
2005-08-03 00:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=travis]I believe Woody and Arlo are Jews.[/QUOTE]Woody at least, no. At last nothing I'd ever heard.
2005-08-03 01:36 | User Profile
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e7/This_Machine_Kills_Fascists.gif/300px-This_Machine_Kills_Fascists.gif[/img] He left Texas (and his family) with the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_Bowl"][color=#0000ff]Dust Bowl[/color][/url], following the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okies"][color=#0000ff]Okies[/color][/url] to [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California"][color=#0000ff]California[/color][/url]. The poverty he saw on these early trips affected him greatly, and many of his songs are concerned with the inequities faced by America's working men and women. A lifelong [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism"][color=#0000ff]socialist[/color][/url] and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_union"][color=#0000ff]trade unionist[/color][/url], he also contributed a regular article, "Woody Sez," to the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Worker"][color=#0000ff]Daily Worker[/color][/url].Guthrie originally wrote and sang anti-war songs with the Almanac Singers, but eventually he and they, along with the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism"][color=#0000ff]Communist[/color][/url] milieu with which they were associated, joined the anti-[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism"][color=#0000ff]fascist[/color][/url] cause -- Guthrie famously wrote the slogan "This Machine Kills Fascists" on his guitar.
The 1948 crash of a plane carrying 28 Mexican farm workers from Oakland, California, to be deported back to Mexico inspired "[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportee_%28Plane_Wreck_At_Los_Gatos%29"][color=#0000ff]Deportee (Plane Wreck At Los Gatos)[/color][/url]", which has since been covered by performers such as [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Seeger"][color=#0000ff]Pete Seeger[/color][/url], [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_Parton"][color=#0000ff]Dolly Parton[/color][/url], and Woody's son [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arlo_Guthrie"][color=#0000ff]Arlo Guthrie[/color][/url]. "Pastures of Plenty", written around the same time, also sympathized with the struggle of immigrant farm workers.
2005-08-03 02:39 | User Profile
Thursday December 2, 2004
Woody Guthrieââ¬â¢s hootenanny Chanukah coming to Berkeley
by tom tugend correspondent
los angeles | Legendary folksinger and composer Woody Guthrie left behind a little-known legacy of Chanukah, Holocaust and Jewish childrenââ¬â¢s songs. His inspiration was Yiddish poet Aliza Greenblatt, his mother-in-law.
ââ¬ÅHoly Ground: The Jewish and Spiritual Songs of Woody Guthrieââ¬Â will be performed Tuesday, Dec. 7, the first night of Chanukah, by his son Arlo, his grandson Abe, and the six-piece Klezmatics band at Zellerbach Hall in Berkeley.
Arlo Guthrie, 57, whose own musical career took off in 1967 with the release of ââ¬ÅAliceââ¬â¢s Restaurant,ââ¬Â recalled in a phone interview growing up as a ââ¬ÅJewish kidââ¬Â in Brooklyn, with his famous dad and his mother, Marjorie Mazia, a professional dancer and Woodyââ¬â¢s second wife.
In preparation for Arloââ¬â¢s ââ¬Åhootenanny bar mitzvahââ¬Â in 1960, his parents hired a ââ¬Åsweet young rabbi,ââ¬Â as a tutor. The rabbiââ¬â¢s name was Meir Kahane, who went on to become the extremist founder of the Jewish Defense League and the Kach political party.
ââ¬ÅRabbi Kahane was a really nice, patient teacher, but shortly after he gave me my lessons, he started going haywire. Maybe I was responsible,ââ¬Â laughed Arlo.
When Marjorie Mazia abandoned her Jewish husband to marry Woody, ââ¬Åthis little guy from Oklahoma,ââ¬Â her parents took the news in different ways.
Her father, Isidore Greenblatt, stopped talking to his daughter until the first of her three children with Woody was born.
But Bubbe Aliza took to her new son-in-law quickly. ââ¬ÅShe was a poet and songwriter in her own right, and she immediately recognized Woodyââ¬â¢s talent,ââ¬Â said Arlo.
Woody himself was aware of the tension between Isidore and Aliza Greenblatt over his marriage, so he started studying Judaism.
ââ¬ÅHe wanted to know what he had gotten himself into and, with his typical thoroughness, started reading every book he could find and took courses on Judaism at Brooklyn Community College,ââ¬Â said Arlo.
The grandmotherââ¬â¢s impact on young Arlo went even deeper.
ââ¬ÅWe would go to her home on Friday night for Shabbat dinner and she was a great cook. Nobody ever came close to her blintzes,ââ¬Â Arlo reminisced nostalgically.
ââ¬ÅShe was also a very creative person, a great storyteller, and I loved her stories about growing up in Russia.ââ¬Â
Best of all, ââ¬ÅShe liked me as I was,ââ¬Â said Arlo. ââ¬ÅShe always thought I was funny and she took great pride in me. She was interested in everything I was interested in. You always hope that someone in your family feels that way about you.
ââ¬ÅThe first time I performed in Carnegie Hall,ââ¬Â he continued, ââ¬Åshe sat there in the middle of the front row and just kvelled.ââ¬Â Once bubbe visited the Guthries when they were living on a small farm in Massachusetts, where they kept some goats.
When she arrived, she started crying, and Arlo asked, Why are you crying, Bubbe?ââ¬Â ââ¬ÅBecause I havenââ¬â¢t seen a goat in 75 years,ââ¬Â she answered between sobs.
Like Woody, bubbe was an early anti-fascist, who fought for social justice and organized labor, and she was an ardent Zionist, as well.
In the early 1950s, the Greenblatts moved to Israel, but returned a few years later, after Woody was struck with a severe degenerative disease, to help take care of the grandchildren.
Woody Guthrie, who wrote some 3,500 songs in 20 years, in addition to books and pamphlets, never heard the Jewish songs performed in his lifetime.
It was only after his death that his daughter Nora discovered the lyrics and had them set to music by the Klezmatics. Among Arloââ¬â¢s favorites are ââ¬ÅHappy, Joyous Chanukah,ââ¬Â and, in another mood, a chilling ballad about the sadistic Ilse Koch, ââ¬ÅThe Bitch of Buchenwald,ââ¬Â in the voice of a concentration camp inmate.
[url]http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/24336/format/html/displaystory.html[/url]
2005-08-03 02:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=travis]Woody himself was aware of the tension between Isidore and Aliza Greenblatt over his marriage, so he started studying Judaism.
ââ¬ÅHe wanted to know what he had gotten himself into and, with his typical thoroughness, started reading every book he could find and took courses on Judaism at Brooklyn Community College,ââ¬Â said Arlo. Obviously he wasn't born jewish himself.
[QUOTE]Like Woody, bubbe was an early anti-fascist, who fought for social justice and organized labor, and she was an ardent Zionist, as well. [/QUOTE]
Its very common I think for gentile communists to marry jews. Brecht, Lenin (along with a large percentage of the other gentile old bolshevics ) etc.
2005-08-03 02:55 | User Profile
It's very common for Jews to marry Marranos, too. It's also common for both to be social activists and whine about "social injustice".
2005-08-03 03:07 | User Profile
Oh crap, you guys would have to tell me this stuff....i still like some of these songs though. Guess ill have to go drink some of my good scotch to flush the commie out of me. I really hate breaking out the good scotch ya know, i really do.
2005-08-03 05:21 | User Profile
Gag me
2005-08-03 05:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=JoseyWales]Oh crap, you guys would have to tell me this stuff....i still like some of these songs though. Guess ill have to go drink some of my good scotch to flush the commie out of me. I really hate breaking out the good scotch ya know, i really do.[/QUOTE] Well unlike a lot of conservatives, I do have a soft spot for Woody. He wrote that column, but he was never really inducted into the CPUSA. He held out for instance on things like refusing to renounce Christianity. So I guess realy all you can properly label him as is a sympathizer.
Similarly with his jewish music. He never made a big deal out of it, so I don't think he intended to force it on anyone. Sounds almost like something to impress his in-laws with.
Didn't mean to begrudge you your Woody :biggrin:
2005-08-03 07:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Well unlike a lot of conservatives, I do have a soft spot for Woody. He wrote that column, but he was never really inducted into the CPUSA. He held out for instance on things like refusing to renounce Christianity. So I guess realy all you can properly label him as is a sympathizer.
Similarly with his jewish music. He never made a big deal out of it, so I think he intended to force it on anyone. Sounds almost like something to impress his in-laws with.
Didn't mean to begrudge you your Woody :biggrin:[/QUOTE]
Oh for Christ's sake, Okie, [U]give it up[/U].
Guy was a hardcore Red and not just a [I]wannabe [/I] Jew...he was a [B]trynabe [/B] Jew. The worst kind!!
He wrote Holocaust songs in Yiddish. His kid had a Bar Mitzvah and talks about his "bubbe" [I]kvelling[/I]. What the hell more do you need - 50 years worth of cancelled checks from Germany?
2005-08-03 07:55 | User Profile
[COLOR=Sienna][FONT=Arial][B][I] - "Guy was a hardcore Red and not just a wannabe Jew...he was a trynabe Jew. The worst kind!!"[/I][/B][/FONT][/COLOR]
If [B]I [/B] would bash Guthrie this way (which he fully deserved, btw), you would probably call me a culture-hater once again...
Petr
2005-08-03 12:47 | User Profile
I seriously doubt Jews would have a gentile writing Jewish songs for them to listen to. A Marrano maybe, but not a gentile. I think his refusal to denounce Christianity was just a public relations move. After all, how could he convince the goyim to surrender to communism if he alienates his audience? A calculated move.
2005-08-03 13:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=travis]I seriously doubt Jews would have a gentile writing Jewish songs for them to listen to. A Marrano maybe, but not a gentile. I think his refusal to denounce Christianity was just a public relations move. After all, how could he convince the goyim to surrender to communism if he alienates his audience? A calculated move.[/QUOTE]Well you really have to know the man personally not just speculate. If it was a public relations move it would have been something the Party advised him on. And the Party did encourage some to remain sympathizers who wanted to join the party, sympathizers who remained "independent" were often more useful. But what the particulars were on Woody I just don't know.
2005-08-03 14:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr][COLOR=Sienna][FONT=Arial][B][I] - "Guy was a hardcore Red and not just a wannabe Jew...he was a trynabe Jew. The worst kind!!"[/I][/B][/FONT][/COLOR]
If [B]I [/B] would bash Guthrie this way (which he fully deserved, btw), you would probably call me a culture-hater once again...
Petr[/QUOTE]
Sob.....whiiiine......sob....
2005-08-03 14:35 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Oh for Christ's sake, Okie, [U]give it up[/U].
Guy was a hardcore Red and not just a [I]wannabe [/I] Jew...he was a [B]trynabe [/B] Jew. The worst kind!!
He wrote Holocaust songs in Yiddish. His kid had a Bar Mitzvah and talks about his "bubbe" [I]kvelling[/I]. What the hell more do you need - 50 years worth of cancelled checks from Germany?[/QUOTE]True, but with artists you have to use something you may have never heard of called "poetic license". For crying out loud, if we were going to throw out all the art, theater, and music produced by people who exhibited some degree of nauseating judeophilia, we'd be reduced to having to listen to people like you and Franco whistle the [I]Horst Wessel[/I] song. :lol:
Besides everyone knows that to get along in NYC you have to suckee up to the Yids anyway. At least Okies do it by writing bad songs instead of manufacturing concrete galoushes.:tongue:
2005-08-03 14:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]if we were going to throw out all the art, theater, and music produced by people who exhibited some degree of nauseating judeophilia, [/QUOTE]
Almost all music we have heard in the last 50 years has gone through the Jewish filter to make sure we heard their agendas over and over again. Gentile musicians, by and large, are fools who have unwittingly sold us out in exchange for social position. Since I have figured this out, I hardly ever listen to "music" other than to get that catchy but offensive tune out of my head that was forced on me at the grocery store or department store.
Silence is golden.
2005-08-03 14:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=travis]Almost all music we have heard in the last 50 years has gone through the Jewish filter to make sure we heard their agendas over and over again. Gentile musicians, by and large, are fools who have unwittingly sold us out in exchange for social position. Since I have figured this out, I hardly ever listen to "music" other than to get that catchy but offensive tune out of my head that was forced on me at the grocery store or department store.
Silence is golden.[/QUOTE]I guess that's why I go for country, even though there are probably its not as different as it makes itself out to be.
2005-08-03 14:54 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]I guess that's why I go for country, even though there are probably its not as different as it makes itself out to be.[/QUOTE] It all goes through the same filter. Listen carefully to the lyrics. Our rulers make sure our role models promote drunkeness and loser mentality. Country was still pretty good 20 to 30 years ago, now it's a bunch of mixed breeds and city folks faking an accent and promoting the idea that country people are stupid, simple and small-minded and proud of it. I repeat, listen closely to the lyrics.
2005-08-03 15:51 | User Profile
Hey, good one, Okie! You got the obligatory [I]Yankee [/I] reference, the obligatory [I]Horst Wessel [/I] reference, the ever-potent [I]you and Franco [/I] zinger AND one of your Power Smilies into the same post!
How this negates the fact that Woody Guthrie wrote and sang songs in Yiddish about Chanukah and the Holocaust, I'm not exactly sure - but [I]you'll [/I] think of something, I'm sure ....probably involving the name "Alex Linder" (the only talking point you missed up there).
2005-08-03 16:03 | User Profile
Oklahoma must be such a harsh environment.
2005-08-03 16:10 | User Profile
Next thing i know, someone is going to tell me Hank sr was a jew or had jewish parents...
2005-08-03 17:35 | User Profile
The Son of Okemah was a voice for the working-man at a time when they were needed and few and far between.
For that, I give him a pass on some of the later stuff. Aint none of us perfect over a lifetime.
2005-08-03 18:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Oklahoma must be such a harsh environment.[/QUOTE]It was in the 30's. Basically a third world environment.
2005-08-03 18:49 | User Profile
Hey, don't get me wrong. I agree that a number of Americans, even a few Jewish ones here and there, turned to Socialism in the deths of the Depression out of desperation at both capitalism's collapse and its inherent flaws; and I even sang If I Had A Hammer and This Land Is Your Land as a kid (because my Jewish grade-school teachers insisted we learn them word for word, nyah-hah-hah)....and frankly I don't have any real opinion on Guthrie or his fellow Kremlin dupe Pete Seeger besides 'old time folksingers of the pink persuasion'.
But come on already! Guthrie's life story sounds like an anti-Semitic parody of a VH1 BEHIND THE MUSIC that [B]I'd [/B] write for VNN! I mean, [I]mama mia! - atsa some-a spicy Jewball![/I]
I just figured he wasn't himself [I]haimish[/I], but had Jew friends, like everyone in show-biz. I never dreamed he'd be so yarmulked'd up. You gotta admit, it [I]is [/I] funny: picturing ol' Woody, the workers' pal, tenderly singing shtetl lullabies to moneyed Jews at pinko fundraisers.
By the way, don't be surprised to find me using your own 1930s [I]get-out-of-jail-free-card[/I] on [U]you[/U] guys when you decide to take some other old-line American Commie to the woodshed of History - you know - one who's [I]not [/I] from Texas or Oklahoma , and therefore an 'authentic subversive'.
2005-08-03 23:19 | User Profile
Once one learns a little bit about history, it becomes difficult to listen to either Woody Guthrie or Pete Seeger. They wrote effective jingles and propaganda for the :dung: - loving Tribe.
Still, I like "This Land is Your Land". Sing it like you're among like-minded men, capable of imagining a better world for our kind, and it becomes a different song.
2005-08-04 00:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]The Son of Okemah was a voice for the working-man at a time when they were needed and few and far between.
For that, I give him a pass on some of the later stuff. Aint none of us perfect over a lifetime.[/QUOTE] I find it hard to believe that George Gershwin wasn't a gentile. There's a Wagner like quality to much of his music...:whstl:
2005-08-04 02:44 | User Profile
Hey, I like those Tin Pan Alley Jews of yesteryear: Gershwin, Rodgers and Hart, Dubin & Warren, Cole Porter (a goy, butwhat the hell), etc. They represent the last and maybe only time pop music was actually civilized entertainment.
2005-08-04 03:19 | User Profile
[font=Arial]By the time he arrived in California, in 1937, Woody had experienced the intense scorn, hatred, and antagonism of resident Californians who were opposed to the influx of outsiders. Woody's identification with outsider status would become part and parcel of his political and social positioning, one which gradually worked its way into his songwriting, as evident in his Dust Bowl Ballads such as I Ain't Got No Home, Goin' Down the Road Feelin' Bad, Talking Dust Bowl Blues, Tom Joad and Hard Travelin'. His 1937 radio broadcasts on KFVD, Los Angeles, and XELO (just over the border in Mexico) brought Woody and his new singing partner, Maxine Crissman or Lefty Lou, wide public attention, while providing him with a forum from which he could develop his talent for controversial social commentary and criticism on topics ranging from corrupt politicians, lawyers, and businessmen to praising the humanist principles of Jesus Christ, Pretty Boy Floyd, and Union organizers.[/font]
[font=Arial][size=2]Never one to become comfortable with success, or being in one place for too long, in 1939 Woody headed east for New York City, where he was embraced for his Steinbeckian homespun wisdom and musical "authenticity" by leftist organizations, artists, writers, musicians, and other intellectuals. [/size][size=2]"..I sang at a hundred IWO [International Workers' Order] lodges and met every color and kind of human being you can imagine."[/size][/font]
[left][img]http://www.woodyguthrie.org/images/110.jpg[/img] [font=Arial][color=#fffee2][size=2][color=#fffee2]****[/color][/size][/color][size=2]Woody Guthrie continued to write songs and perform with the Almanac Singers, the politically radical singing group of the late 1940s, some of whose members would later re-form as the Weavers, the most commercially successful and influential folk music group of the late 1940s and early 1950s. Managed by Harold Leventhal, a trusted friend and confidante, and supported by music publisher Howie Richmond, the Almanacs helped to establish folk music as a viable commercial entity within the popular music industry.[/size][/font][/left]
2005-08-04 03:43 | User Profile
[img]http://www.ramblinjack.com/images/bio2_jack6.jpg[/img] He was raised there as Elliot Charles Adnopoz starting August 1, 1931 and remained contented enough until he saw his first rodeo ââ¬â Gene Autry and the blacklit bulls of Madison Square Garden.
At fourteen, Elliot busted from home and hitched a rig to Washington, DC where he spied a poster advertising Colonel Jim Eskew's Rodeo. Sounded good. The rodeo cowboys there asked him his name. He muttered it sheepishly. "Adnopoz from Brooklyn" was an unlikely mantle for an aspiring cowboy. Seeing his embarrassment, one cowboy told the kid right there, "It ain't where you're from that counts, it's where you're going." He went with them.
Dr. and Mrs. Adnopoz were never consulted on young Elliot's self-relocation. By then familiar with what they hoped were his passing interests, they tried to find where he'd gone...
Jack recollects, "When I first met Woody, my name was 'Buck' Elliott. He wrote a little song: 'All the Buck Elliott's around, eatin' sody crackers, rollin' on the ground.'"[size=-2]7[/size] A constant mob of young pickers was always milling about Woody. Still Jack was the one who was toted along to parties and taught everything from storytelling to backing up fiddle with guitar. His uncritical adoration and aptitude for Woody's laid-back, sardonic blues and rampant, unreliable life wedged him a spot at Woody's side. He absorbed Woody's style of playing guitar, the songs he sung, the way he sung them, and eventually the way he walked, talked, and joked ââ¬â he became protégé bar none.
Jack's pairing with Woody was that of Don Quixote with Sancho Panza. Jack idolized Woody while realizing that he could not be him...
[url="http://www.ramblinjack.com/bio2.html"]http://www.ramblinjack.com/bio2.html[/url] [img]http://www.douglasrgilbert.com/photos/dylan-E002-26t.jpg[/img] Robert Zimmerman & Elliot Charles Adnopoz
2005-08-04 05:33 | User Profile
[CENTER][URL=http://www.woodyguthrie.org/]The Official Woody Guthrie Site[/URL] [/CENTER] [CENTER][IMG]http://www.woodyguthrie.org/images/wg-carsonindexpage.jpg[/IMG] [/CENTER]
[QUOTE]Christ for President
Let's have Christ our President, Let us have him for our king Cast your vote for the Carpenter, That you call the Nazarene
The only way we can ever beat, These crooked politician men Is to run the money changers out of the temple, Put the Carpenter in
O It's Jesus Christ our President, God above our king With a job and a pension for young and old, We will make hallelujah ring
Every year we waste enough, To feed the ones who starve We build our civilization up, And we shoot it down with wars
But with the Carpenter on the seat, Way up in the Capital town The USA would be on the way, Prosperity Bound!
[/QUOTE]
2005-08-04 08:45 | User Profile
[B]Most people still thought Jack of authentic American cowhand origins. He sure played the part.[/B]
I think "Elliot 'The Wanderin' Jew' Adnopoz" has more snap to it. Yeah, that's the ticket. :cowboy: :caiphas:
2005-08-04 13:35 | User Profile
There is a song on one of my Flatt & Scruggs CDs that I'm pretty sure is by Woody Guthrie. It was probably intended as a Bolshevist hymn 50 years ago, but in the context of contemporary America, it sounds more like something Randy Weaver or the late Robert J. Matthews might listen to. I forget what its called, but the last line is "My land I'll defend with my life need it be, for the pastures of plenty must always be free."
Mr. Guthrie was probably defining "free" as "dominated by Red trade unions and Commie militias," but the circa 2005 subtext comes off sounding a lot more like a call to retain our Constitutional order and prevent rural America from being seized by Mexico. Its a very good song, in any event.
The song extensively references the lifestyle of itinerant farm laborers of European descent, who were the bulwark against Mexican colonization up until 1970 or so. These days, a lot of those same low-IQ Whites (I hate to categorize such genuinely otherwise decent folk in such a seemingly negative fashion, but I suspect itinerant farm laborers of European descent in the post-WW2 era tended to be on the low end of the Europid bell curve, as someone is bound to be, after all), instead of performing useful agricultural labor (and thus preventing the existence of the vacuum which was the primary engine driving Mexican & other Latin American immigration), can be found wasting their lives in our prisons, often after being convicted of some minor sales-related drug offense (and as we've covered recently, more than a few of them are also apt to be the sexual slaves of degenerate Negro thugs - whom we frankly ought to just summarily execute for having done that to a weaker man while residing on U.S. soil, thus staining our homeland by virtue of the sordid nature of the unjust barbarism being committed, and I say that irrespective of racial considerations; a White man who sexually enslaves a Black fellow ought to be shot as well, and I'll pull the trigger if need be; that's just not how this particular abomination tends to manifest, oh-so-unsurprisingly, alas).
Man, talk about a betrayal of a once (and future?) vital segment of our working class! Deep down, I still adore my country and would die for her, but on an intellectually unsound, surface level, its becoming increasingly easy to regards the phrase "my fellow Americans" as a vile insult. One thing is for sure, something is going to happen. Such a state of affairs simply can not endure. If there's a God, He won't permit it. If not, natural evolution will destroy this hideous regime. Either way....bring it on. So long as my son survives (he's moving to Sioux Falls, South Dakota, along with six other members of my family early next year, so his survival looks disproportionately likely; I wish my wife's illness didn't prevent us from going out there too), its not that important that I do. I hope to, of course, but if Marcus perseveres, I can die without any tremendous regrets. I wonder what percentage of us (current OD participants) will be interned in the immediate aftermath of a nuclear attack on one of more U.S. cities?
2005-08-04 13:43 | User Profile
Does anyone know more about the story behind this song? I grew up in Los Gatos (born in 1970, lived in Los Gatos from 1972-1986, and am presently residing about one mile east of the Los Gatos Town limits). I suspect the plane actully crashed somewhere in the vicinity of Lexington Reservoir and the Redwood Estates/Summit Road area, i.e. that it collided into the Santa Cruz Mountains, of which Los Gatos can be found at the very foot. While several miles south of the actual town, all portions of Santa Clara County located due south of Los Gatos are often referred to as "Los Gatos" by most of your buereaucratic entities, such as the phone company and post office, for whatever reason.
Plane Wreck At Los Gatos (Deportee)
The crops are all in and the peaches are rott'ning, The oranges piled in their creosote dumps; They're flying 'em back to the Mexican border To pay all their money to wade back again
Goodbye to my Juan, goodbye, Rosalita, Adios mis amigos, Jesus y Maria; You won't have your names when you ride the big airplane, All they will call you will be "deportees"
My father's own father, he waded that river, They took all the money he made in his life; My brothers and sisters come working the fruit trees, And they rode the truck till they took down and died.
Some of us are illegal, and some are not wanted, Our work contract's out and we have to move on; Six hundred miles to that Mexican border, They chase us like outlaws, like rustlers, like thieves.
We died in your hills, we died in your deserts, We died in your valleys and died on your plains. We died 'neath your trees and we died in your bushes, Both sides of the river, we died just the same.
The sky plane caught fire over Los Gatos Canyon, A fireball of lightning, and shook all our hills, Who are all these friends, all scattered like dry leaves? The radio says, "They are just deportees"
Is this the best way we can grow our big orchards? Is this the best way we can grow our good fruit? To fall like dry leaves to rot on my topsoil And be called by no name except "deportees"?
2005-08-04 14:56 | User Profile
[url="http://picacho.org/interest/dc3-site.html"]http://picacho.org/interest/dc3-site.html[/url]
| [left]DC-3 Chartered by the U.S. Immigration Service
[size=3]On January 28, 1948, aa twin-engine DC-3C chartered by the U.S. Immigration Service from Airline Transport Carriers of Burbank, California crashed in western Fresno County's Los Gatos Canyon, killing all 32 people on board, including 28 Mexican farm workers being deported by the U.S. Immigration Service. Eyewitnesses saw at least nine people leap to their deaths. Twelve of the farm workers were never identified. The newspaper reported later that hundreds from ââ¬ÅFresno's Mexican colonyââ¬Âââ¬â the local Latino community ââ¬â wept during Catholic services at a mass burial.[/size] [size=3]The plane crashed at about N36ð 14.200; W120ð 35.094 at 1677 feet; one wing was found at N36ð 14.358; W120ð 35.517 at 1762 feet. This site is on private land and trespassing is prohibited. The site is a small empty field that can be view from the road. The wreckage site was cleaned up soon after the crash and nothing is left. Treasure hunters using metal detectors removed any remaining hidden debris during the 1950s/1960s.[/size] [/left] |
"Deportee (Plane Wreck at Los Gatos)" was a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woody_Guthrie"][color=#0000ff]Woody Guthrie[/color][/url] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_song"][color=#0000ff]protest song[/color][/url] detailing the crash of a plane deporting 28 Mexican farm workers from [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California"][color=#0000ff]California[/color][/url] back to Mexico on Jan 29, 1948 and the racist mistreatment of the passengers before and after the accident.
Guthrie was reportedly struck by the fact that radio and newspaper coverage of the event did not give the victims' names, but referred to them as "just deportees". Guthrie originally wrote it as a poem, and a decade later Martin Hoffman added music and turned it into a song. The song was popularized at the time by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Seeger"][color=#0000ff]Pete Seeger[/color][/url].
Retrieved from: [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportee_(Plane_Wreck_At_Los_Gatos"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportee_(Plane_Wreck_At_Los_Gatos[/url])
2005-08-04 15:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=albion]On January 28, 1948, aa twin-engine DC-3C chartered by the U.S. Immigration Service from Airline Transport Carriers of Burbank, California crashed in western Fresno County's Los Gatos Canyon, killing all 32 people on board, including 28 Mexican farm workers being deported by the U.S. Immigration Service.[/QUOTE]
Ah, different Los Gatos (that one is about 150 miles south-by-southeast of here. "Los Gatos" is Spanish for "the cats," by the way. There used to be a great many bobcats and mountain lions around here. My wife saw a mountain lion in 2001, and I saw a bobcat in '95, so they haven't all given way to strip malls, thank God.
2005-08-05 00:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Hey, don't get me wrong. I agree that a number of Americans, even a few Jewish ones here and there, turned to Socialism in the deths of the Depression out of desperation at both capitalism's collapse and its inherent flaws; and I even sang If I Had A Hammer and This Land Is Your Land as a kid (because my Jewish grade-school teachers insisted we learn them word for word, nyah-hah-hah)....and frankly I don't have any real opinion on Guthrie or his fellow Kremlin dupe Pete Seeger besides 'old time folksingers of the pink persuasion'.
But come on already! Guthrie's life story sounds like an anti-Semitic parody of a VH1 BEHIND THE MUSIC that [B]I'd [/B] write for VNN! I mean, [I]mama mia! - atsa some-a spicy Jewball![/I]
I just figured he wasn't himself [I]haimish[/I], but had Jew friends, like everyone in show-biz. I never dreamed he'd be so yarmulked'd up. You gotta admit, it [I]is [/I] funny: picturing ol' Woody, the workers' pal, tenderly singing shtetl lullabies to moneyed Jews at pinko fundraisers.
By the way, don't be surprised to find me using your own 1930s [I]get-out-of-jail-free-card[/I] on [U]you[/U] guys when you decide to take some other old-line American Commie to the woodshed of History - you know - one who's [I]not [/I] from Texas or Oklahoma , and therefore an 'authentic subversive'.[/QUOTE]
Man, you crack me up. :biggrin:
2005-08-05 00:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]There is a song on one of my Flatt & Scruggs CDs that I'm pretty sure is by Woody Guthrie. It was probably intended as a Bolshevist hymn 50 years ago, but in the context of contemporary America, it sounds more like something Randy Weaver or the late Robert J. Matthews might listen to. I forget what its called, but the last line is "My land I'll defend with my life need it be, for the pastures of plenty must always be free."
Mr. Guthrie was probably defining "free" as "dominated by Red trade unions and Commie militias," but the circa 2005 subtext comes off sounding a lot more like a call to retain our Constitutional order and prevent rural America from being seized by Mexico. Its a very good song, in any event.
The song extensively references the lifestyle of itinerant farm laborers of European descent, who were the bulwark against Mexican colonization up until 1970 or so. These days, a lot of those same low-IQ Whites (I hate to categorize such genuinely otherwise decent folk in such a seemingly negative fashion, but I suspect itinerant farm laborers of European descent in the post-WW2 era tended to be on the low end of the Europid bell curve, as someone is bound to be, after all), instead of performing useful agricultural labor (and thus preventing the existence of the vacuum which was the primary engine driving Mexican & other Latin American immigration), can be found wasting their lives in our prisons, often after being convicted of some minor sales-related drug offense (and as we've covered recently, more than a few of them are also apt to be the sexual slaves of degenerate Negro thugs - whom we frankly ought to just summarily execute for having done that to a weaker man while residing on U.S. soil, thus staining our homeland by virtue of the sordid nature of the unjust barbarism being committed, and I say that irrespective of racial considerations; a White man who sexually enslaves a Black fellow ought to be shot as well, and I'll pull the trigger if need be; that's just not how this particular abomination tends to manifest, oh-so-unsurprisingly, alas).
Man, talk about a betrayal of a once (and future?) vital segment of our working class! Deep down, I still adore my country and would die for her, but on an intellectually unsound, surface level, its becoming increasingly easy to regards the phrase "my fellow Americans" as a vile insult. One thing is for sure, something is going to happen. Such a state of affairs simply can not endure. If there's a God, He won't permit it. If not, natural evolution will destroy this hideous regime. Either way....bring it on. So long as my son survives (he's moving to Sioux Falls, South Dakota, along with six other members of my family early next year, so his survival looks disproportionately likely; I wish my wife's illness didn't prevent us from going out there too), its not that important that I do. I hope to, of course, but if Marcus perseveres, I can die without any tremendous regrets. I wonder what percentage of us (current OD participants) will be interned in the immediate aftermath of a nuclear attack on one of more U.S. cities?[/QUOTE]
Good post, as usual. But I have to take exception to your remark that any number of white working class men are the sexual slaves of black inmates in the prison system. I don't think it is quite that way. I think there is a certain amount of gang rape on weaker white men, but I think this beastial vision of white men enslaved to blacks is an exaggeration. I say this because such a thing would deeply offend all the whites in the prison and riots or selective murder of the white, the black or both would ensue,
2005-08-05 09:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]..... I think there is a certain amount of gang rape on weaker white men, but I think this beastial vision of white men enslaved to blacks is an exaggeration. I say this because such a thing would deeply offend all the whites in the prison [B]and riots or selective murder of the white, the black or both would ensue,[/B][/QUOTE]You haven't been paying much attention to what's going on in prisons lately have you? At least in Oklahoma its certainly making headlines.
2005-08-05 09:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Hey, don't get me wrong. I agree that a number of Americans, even a few Jewish ones here and there, turned to Socialism in the deths of the Depression out of desperation at both capitalism's collapse and its inherent flaws; and I even sang If I Had A Hammer and This Land Is Your Land as a kid (because my Jewish grade-school teachers insisted we learn them word for word, nyah-hah-hah)....and frankly I don't have any real opinion on Guthrie or his fellow Kremlin dupe Pete Seeger besides 'old time folksingers of the pink persuasion'..........
By the way, don't be surprised to find me using your own 1930s [I]get-out-of-jail-free-card[/I] on [U]you[/U] guys when you decide to take some other old-line American Commie to the woodshed of History - you know - one who's [I]not [/I] from Texas or Oklahoma , and therefore an 'authentic subversive'.[/QUOTE]
Well like you, I really don't have an opinion on him. Back in Oklahoma the local conservative paper [I]Oklahoma Constitution[/I] is on an anti-Woody jihad - I think they'd like to burn his childhood house done after they have the cite exorcised, so that's really all I hear about him back here. So having acquired sort of a reflexive iconoclasm to the mainstream conservative establishment - even that of the far right, I sort of instinctively listen to the other side.
2005-08-05 12:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]But I have to take exception to your remark that any number of white working class men are the sexual slaves of black inmates in the prison system. I don't think it is quite that way. I think there is a certain amount of gang rape on weaker white men, but I think this beastial vision of white men enslaved to blacks is an exaggeration. I say this because such a thing would deeply offend all the whites in the prison and riots or selective murder of the white, the black or both would ensue,[/QUOTE]
Well, there are just so many working class White men in prison that ought not be there, either because of unust laws, and/or their jobs being given to lower-paid Third World colonists, and/or their parents, the government schools, and the tax-free churches doing a damn lousy job instilling civilized values in the youthful descendants of often highly civilized people (thus demonstrating the genetic potential for civilized norms of behavior in so many Whites who were never given any real chance to embrace them by their ignorant, irresponsible parents and our failed societal institutions), that my charge stands up to scrutiny, by simple virtue of the fact that in anything akin to a healty society, rather than one rapidly approaching the brink of civilizational & racial suicide, most of the generally weaker White men who are going to get raped by niggers (or men of other races, including their own, for that matter) this evening, be it a few hundred unfortunates, or tens of thousands of state-sanctioned sexual slaves who are probably now HIV+ in the majority of cases, and thus doomed to die an early (and degrading) death, would not be in prison in the first place.
Personally, I think prison is both a silly waste and a tragically systematic device for the abuse of basic human & Constitutional rights. Any crime serious enough to warrant locking someone up in a cage for many years (murder, rape, child molestation, arson, armed robbery) ought simply be dealt with via the hangman's noose. Other crimes (many of which probably ought be stricken from the books) could be dealt with in terms of fines, restitution, community service labor/indentured servitude, floggings, etc. Its bad enough we have to keep dogs and cats locked up because more get bred than are desired as pets; doing the same damn thing to human beings is just repugnant and obviously counter-productive, in my opinion. Sane and sincere rulers who were not iombeciles would see this, and have acted to changed it a good 15 years ago, if not a lot longer, thus we are ruled by the insane, the stupid, and (primarily, I suspect) the insincere, which is to say traitors. Bush (and Cheney) may well embody all three of those traits, to their eternal disgrace, and our constant humiliation and national decline, alas.