← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · wild_bill
Thread ID: 19367 | Posts: 25 | Started: 2005-08-01
2005-08-01 12:28 | User Profile
[url]http://orthodoxnews.netfirms.com/182/South.htm[/url]
Orthodoxy on the rise in the South The Clarion-Ledger (Mississippi), July 16, 2005
CLINTON ââ¬â The scent of incense wafted through the air inside Holy Resurrection Orthodox Church Sunday as worshippers gathered inside the small temple.
Behind the icon screen separating the altar from the congregation space, Matthew Jackson knelt before his bishop, who placed his hands on the deacon's head while reciting a prayer that elevated him to the priesthood.
"We're going to make some strenuous, rather hard demands on this man," Archbishop Dmitri, the Orthodox Church of America's bishop of Dallas and the South, said during his homily. "What Father Matthew will be doing is making Christ present in this community."
The Orthodox Church traces its origins to the apostolic community that Jesus called into being. Adherents believe the church is part of an unbroken chain of faith born during the feast of Pentecost, which started 50 days after the first Easter.
Though Orthodox Christians remain a minority in the United States ââ¬â the Orthodox Church of America estimates there are 2 million believers in North America ââ¬â Orthodoxy in the South is on the rise.
"We'd like to have more priests because we're growing and we want to start new missions," said the Rev. Paul Yerger, pastor of Holy Resurrection Orthodox Church.
Over the last 30 years, Orthodox churches in the southern United States have multiplied from a handful of congregations located mainly in Florida and Texas to more than 60 churches and missions stretching from Virginia to New Mexico.
"In the Florida area most churches developed from the families from the North," said the Rev. Seraphim Hipsh of the Diocese of Dallas and the South, explaining transplants from such states as Pennsylvania, New York and New Jersey ââ¬â where immigrant groups created a high concentration of Orthodox churches ââ¬â brought their faith south.
But after the Diocese of Dallas and the South formed in the late 1970s, new Orthodox churches and missions have sprouted throughout its jurisdiction, which includes Mississippi and 12 other states in the southern quarter of the country.
"The South has hands down the greatest growth," said the Rev. John Matusiak, a spokesman for the Orthodox Church of America. "Growth of the church simply mirrors demographics of the country. More people are moving South and West."
There are six Orthodox churches in Mississippi, including a century-old Antiochian Orthodox congregation in Vicksburg and a three-year-old mission in McComb.
Orthodoxy has three main branches in the United States, the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese, the Orthodox Church of America and the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese. Though the church bodies are not administratively linked, most churches are in communion with one another.
Yerger said people seeking answers to questions about historical Christianity are fueling church growth. Converts make up the majority of Holy Resurrection's congregation, and include Yerger himself.
A former Episcopal priest, Yerger, 62, converted to Orthodoxy in 1977 ââ¬â during an era of great change in the Episcopal church.
In the 1970s, the Episcopal church revised its prayer book that guides the order of services and began ordaining women.
After being ordained an Orthodox priest, Yerger became the first priest to lead Holy Resurrection in Clinton.
He said converts to Orthodoxy discover a tradition long "hidden" in immigrant communities.
"In America it was mainly known for a long time as a church for various ethnic groups," he said. "People still say to us, 'Is your mother Greek or is your father Russian?' "
Indeed, Orthodoxy encompasses a variety of cultural distinctions including Greek, Ukrainian, Russian and Romanian. The Orthodox Church of America dates back to 1794, when Russian monks founded the first Orthodox mission which later became Alaska.
Yerger said the majority of Orthodox churches now conduct services in English.
Called the Divine Liturgy, worship services consist of a series of songs and chants that offer praise and prayers to God. All of the words are from Scripture or ancient Christian texts.
Worshippers venerate icons, which are paintings of Jesus and the saints. The icons symbolize how God revealed himself in a physical form through Jesus.
"All Orthodox churches do the same services," said the Rev. Theoharis Theoharis, pastor of Holy Trinity-St. John the Theologian Greek Orthodox Church, which opened in 1957 on West Capitol Street in Jackson.
Founded by Greek immigrants, it's the oldest Orthodox church in the metro area. There are some 85 families in the congregation, including people from Greece, Lebanon, Russia, Romania, Ethiopia and the United States.
Like other Orthodox churches, many of its members are converts.
"There is a lot of interest," Theoharis said, adding he requires people seeking conversion to read the history of Orthodoxy and to take their time discerning whether the church is for them. "I'm a strong believer it's got to be you making the decisions and not me pushing you."
Jackson, 27, started attending Holy Resurrection in Clinton while a student at Mississippi College. The Jackson native grew up a Southern Baptist, but drifted from the church as a teenager.
"There were so many questions that weren't answered," he said. "Like what was the early church? I wasn't able to find anybody who could answer any questions for me to show we were connected."
But after Jackson and his wife's first child was born, the couple started looking for a church. They sampled several until discovering Holy Resurrection.
"We never looked back," he said.
After he completes his final year in a Pennsylvania seminary, Jackson plans to return to Mississippi and serve the state's newest Orthodox church in McComb.
Though Orthodoxy traces its origin to the first century, many people are still unfamiliar with the tradition. Some confuse the faith with Catholicism, also a liturgical religion with roots in early Christianity.
Though they share common beginnings, the two traditions diverged in the 11th century due to differences in theology and practice.
Other people hear the word "Orthodox" and may conclude Jackson is Jewish ââ¬â despite the large crucifix he wears on a chain around his neck.
"The biggest problem is not misconception but lack of conception," he said. "They just don't know who you are and what you're doing."
÷ A closer look
The Clarion-Ledger
÷ Origin: The Orthodox Church has existed continuously in the Middle East and Greece from the time of the apostles. It is the faith of the majority of Christians in the Middle East, Greece, Romania, Serbia and Russia. With the exception of Rome, the local churches mentioned in the New Testament, such as Corinth, Thessaloniki and Damascus, have existed continuously until today and are Orthodox.
÷ Worship: The beauty of Orthodox worship must be experienced to be understood. The Divine Liturgy expresses the entire Christian faith in a continuous song of praise and prayer addressed to God.
Since much of the service is the same every week, worshippers know it and can participate personally, either by singing along or by prayerful attention.
The entire service (except for the sermon) is sung, mostly to Russian chants and melodies. No organ or other instruments are used. The words are all from Scripture or ancient Christian texts. No rhyming metrical hymns are used.
÷ Icons: Icons are paintings of Christ and the saints. They must be painted according to a strict tradition because they are an important way the faith is handed down and taught.
Icons and crosses are kissed ("venerated"), but not worshipped, as a sign of the belief that in Christ God took a physical body and became part of the physical world so we could know him. Other human beings who unite themselves with Christ become holy and the image of God becomes visible in them, so their icons are honored as well.
÷ Incense, vestments and candles: These are part of the imagery of heavenly worship in the Book of Revelation. In the liturgy we participate while still in this world in the worship of the angels and saints in heaven. Many people buy candles and place them in the church as an offering of light to the Lord, who told us to let our light shine.
÷ Prayers and hymns: Standard prayers and hymns are used rather than extemporaneous or modern ones because they contain the accumulated insights of many centuries of Christians. Most are packed with biblical quotations. They are repetitious so they become rooted in our minds. They are chanted or sung rather than spoken so worshippers are less conscious of the personality of the individual reader.
2005-08-04 00:14 | User Profile
Many people of the various eastern Orthodox churches have retired down south and taken their churches with them.
Orthodox services can be entertaining and very ritualistic. For example, Orthodox Good Friday services include the making of noises like the pounding of nails into the cross of Christ. Or Orthodox weddings when the bride and groom come out of hidden doors painted like Icons.
It's worth going to see a "crying" icon...even if there are natural causes for it.
I couldn't take a steady diet of it...but...it is different for a change of pace if you are invited...
2005-08-04 01:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Pennsylvania_Dutch]Many people of the various eastern Orthodox churches have retired down south and taken their churches with them.
Orthodox services can be entertaining and very ritualistic. For example, Orthodox Good Friday services include the making of noises like the pounding of nails into the cross of Christ. Or Orthodox weddings when the bride and groom come out of hidden doors painted like Icons.
It's worth going to see a "crying" icon...even if there are natural causes for it.
I couldn't take a steady diet of it...but...it is different for a change of pace if you are invited...[/QUOTE]
The thing I like most about Orthodox worship is the whole congregation is actively involved. Its literally impossible for a person to fall asleep during liturgy, since worship is based around the Eucharist. not preaching. The people are not sitting there being preached to. There are all kinds of things one has to learn in order to function properly in the church. Even babies participate by recieving communion.
2005-08-04 02:10 | User Profile
From what I can tell, the Orthodox in general and the Serbian and Syrian Orthodox in particular are very unhappy with the jews.
I would think that most of the Orthodox churches really dislike the jews for the behavior of the jews/communists in Russia and Eastern Europe.
Also, there are Orthodox churches, that in some fashion elect their own Bishops, but are still under the Pope.
2005-08-04 03:33 | User Profile
The trend toward Orthodoxy comes from two main threads. The first is very conservative Roman Catholics who really have begun to hate the post-Vatican II church. The other group is Protestants of various persuasions whose churches have decided to follow the so-called "Evangelical" worship style with rock n' roll bands and "hootin and a hollarin." They get so repulsed by the non-liturgy and crap music that they crave something more ancient and reverent.
I have my disagreements with Orthodoxy but I have many friends that have rode East, so to speak and I respect them. I even count a minor Orthodox Bishop as a friend. I have had five friends convert to orthodoxy, three Catholics, one agnostic and a Jew(!).
2005-08-04 14:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Pennsylvania_Dutch] Also, there are Orthodox churches, that in some fashion elect their own Bishops, but are still under the Pope.[/QUOTE] PD, You are probably thinking of Eastern-Rite Catholics, who use the Eastern liturgy, but who are in communion with Rome. Eastern Orthodox are not under the Pope.
2005-08-04 14:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]PD, You are probably thinking of Eastern-Rite Catholics, who use the Eastern liturgy, but who are in communion with Rome. Eastern Orthodox are not under the Pope.[/QUOTE] I know, and I also know that in some fashion they appoint or elect their own bishops, who in the United States hold court in the same general geographical areas as the Pope appointed Roman bishops...
2005-08-04 14:35 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Pennsylvania_Dutch]I know, and I also know that in some fashion they appoint or elect their own bishops, who in the United States hold court in the same general geographical areas as the Pope appointed Roman bishops...[/QUOTE]
Of course, there's a system of organization that includes the various patriarchs and their subordinate bishops, but there's no Orthodox leader comparable to the Catholic pope. And nobody claims infallibility.
2005-08-04 14:56 | User Profile
Personally, I'm not a fan of the "episcopal" form of church governance...and I have a limited tolerance for liturgy & other mumbo jumbo.
I like the spoken word based on scripture, reading scripture, and praise and prayer in word and song. Even though I can't carry a tune...:whstl:
My faith is based on the three keys of the Protestant Reformation: Faith, Scripture, and everyman his own priest.
In my opinion every Protestant should attempt to understand other White Ethnic Christian churches like the Orthodox, the Eastern, the Roman Catholic, etc.
2005-08-05 02:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Pennsylvania_Dutch]Personally, I'm not a fan of the "episcopal" form of church governance...and I have a limited tolerance for liturgy & other mumbo jumbo.
I like the spoken word based on scripture, reading scripture, and praise and prayer in word and song. Even though I can't carry a tune...:whstl:
I think there's probably more actual Scripture read during an Orthodox liturgy than in most Protestant sermons. Both the liturgy and the numerous hymms contain all kinds of Scripture. Basically, what one doesn't get is long extemporaeous sermons. Orthodox worship is based around the Eucharist as opposed to preaching. At my parish, our priest sometimes gives a sermon and sometimes not. It depends, I suppose, on how long the service will be. For example, if we happen to have a Panakhida (liturgy for the dead), after the Divine Liturgy, things get a little long if there is much of a sermon.
2005-08-05 05:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=mild_bill]The thing I like most about Orthodox worship is the whole congregation is actively involved. Its literally impossible for a person to fall asleep during liturgy, since worship is based around the Eucharist. not preaching. The people are not sitting there being preached to. There are all kinds of things one has to learn in order to function properly in the church. Even babies participate by recieving communion.[/QUOTE]It's cool that they involve the whole congregation. Do you have any muds in your congregation?:alucard:
2005-08-05 06:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=6KILLER]It's cool that they involve the whole congregation. Do you have any muds in your congregation?:alucard:[/QUOTE]
Orthodox worship is quite different from anything I experienced as a Protestant. Most of the time the congregation is standing and either singing the liturgy and its hymms or saying various prayers, kneeling for the Lord's Prayer, or finally, participating in the Eucharist. There's really no time when nothing is happening or that the congregation is not doing something. There are also prayers one says when entering and leaving the church. Any time the Trinity or God is mentioned during the liturgy, everybody makes the sign of the cross.
No non-whites are members of my parish. I once saw a high yellow woman when people from another parish came to our's, but I don't know if she was actually a member of the other parish. I never saw her again even when I visited the other parish a couple of times. Maybe just a visitor or inquirer, I don't know. That's the only non-white person I can think of who was ever at my parish.
I'd estimate that non-whites might be 1% of Orthodox Christians in the lower 48 states of the US. In Alaska, there are Eskimos who were converted to Orthodoxy 200 years ago. They have their own Eskimo parishes.
For the most part, Orthodoxy is organized by nation or ethnicity.
2005-08-05 06:34 | User Profile
[QUOTE=6KILLER]It's cool that they involve the whole congregation. Do you have any muds in your congregation?:alucard:[/QUOTE]
Orthodox worship is quite different from anything I experienced as a Protestant. Most of the time the congregation is standing and either singing the liturgy and its hymms or saying various prayers, kneeling for the Lord's Prayer, or finally, participating in the Eucharist. There's really no time when nothing is happening or that the congregation is not doing something. There are also prayers one says when entering and leaving the church. Any time the Trinity or God is mentioned during the liturgy, everybody makes the sign of the cross.
No non-whites are members of my parish. I once saw a high yellow woman when people from another parish came to our's, but I don't know if she was actually a member of the other parish. I never saw her again even when I visited the other parish a couple of times. Maybe just a visitor or inquirer, I don't know. That's the only non-white person I can think of who was ever at my parish.
I'd estimate that non-whites might be 1% of Orthodox Christians in the lower 48 states of the US. In Alaska, there are Eskimos who were converted to Orthodoxy 200 years ago. They have their own Eskimo parishes.
For the most part, Orthodoxy is organized by nation or ethnicity.
2005-08-05 12:41 | User Profile
CornCod: The other group is Protestants of various persuasions whose churches have decided to follow the so-called "Evangelical" worship style with rock n' roll bands and "hootin and a hollarin." They get so repulsed by the non-liturgy and crap music that they crave something more ancient and reverent.
The rock 'n roll bands in a worship service are a sacrilege, but so is worshipping tradition and routine. Man has forever been seeking a religion which fits his schedule and his values, rather than God's commandments.
Man wants religion and worship of a god to be of his making. Man wants to defne and control God.
Man is stupid and foolish.
2005-08-05 12:45 | User Profile
Wild Bill:
"For the most part, Orthodoxy is organized by nation or ethnicity."
Is Orthodoxy dispensational? (If I guessed, I'd say, "No")
Do the Orthodox work to make ready for the Second coming of Christ?
2005-08-05 17:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CWRWinger]Wild Bill:
"For the most part, Orthodoxy is organized by nation or ethnicity."
Is Orthodoxy dispensational? (If I guessed, I'd say, "No")
No, dispensationalism is categorically rejected as a false teaching.
Do the Orthodox work to make ready for the Second coming of Christ?[/QUOTE]
The idea is to be ready at all times since Christ said no one would know the hour of His coming. Ideally, one would have a prayer on one's lips and be repenting continuously.
2005-08-07 03:43 | User Profile
The so-called Orthodox church is nothing but another heresy. The Holy Spirit works not within them. They have NO Authority. The truth can be hard to swallow if you are so-called orthodox. POPE BENEDICT XVI Live the Gospel political problems brought upon this break, and the ignorant "Orthodox " church sucks off it. like a snake sucking off a dead leaf. Jealous bastards.
2005-08-07 03:54 | User Profile
Snake handlers suck :starwars:
2005-08-07 05:10 | User Profile
Well, some very nice people are "snake-handlers" but I would urge them not to despise the "liturgical" style of worship. It is not worshipping tradition. The ancient liturgies and their derivatives are about 90% direct quotations from scripture.
When I went from Calvinism to "high-church" Lutheranism it was the theology that convinced me, but the ancient form of the mass (loosely based on the Book of Common Prayer) was the thing that made worship such a pleasure. Don't knock it unless you try it!!!
2005-08-07 12:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Exelsis_Deo]The so-called Orthodox church is nothing but another heresy.[/QUOTE] ED- The Catholic Church does not consider the Orthodox East to be heretics, but schismatics. There is a huge difference between the two. Furthermore, Pope Benedict has made better relations and possible communion with the Orthodox one of the main goals of his papacy, from what I understand.
2005-08-07 13:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]ED- The Catholic Church does not consider the Orthodox East to be heretics, but schismatics. There is a huge difference between the two. Furthermore, Pope Benedict has made better relations and possible communion with the Orthodox one of the main goals of his papacy, from what I understand.[/QUOTE] That's right. We Catholics are, tragically, in schism with the Orthodox, but my understanding is that the Catholic Church doesn't consider any Orthodox teaching heretical.
I'm not so sure of the Orthodox position vis a vis the orthodoxy of certain Catholic tenets, perhaps Wild Bill could enlighten us on that.
2005-08-07 21:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis] I'm not so sure of the Orthodox position vis a vis the orthodoxy of certain Catholic tenets, perhaps Wild Bill could enlighten us on that.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Walter, although I'm probably not good for enlightening. In any case, here's some information on the Orthodox-RCC situation:
Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism [url]http://www.oca.org/QAindex-romancatholicism.asp?SID=3[/url]
2005-08-08 02:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=wild_bill]I think there's probably more actual Scripture read during an Orthodox liturgy than in most Protestant sermons. Both the liturgy and the numerous hymms contain all kinds of Scripture. Basically, what one doesn't get is long extemporaeous sermons. Orthodox worship is based around the Eucharist as opposed to preaching. At my parish, our priest sometimes gives a sermon and sometimes not. It depends, I suppose, on how long the service will be. For example, if we happen to have a Panakhida (liturgy for the dead), after the Divine Liturgy, things get a little long if there is much of a sermon.[/QUOTE]I can understand the principle of basing a service around the Eucharist, but it seems to my Protestant mind that if one is going to base a service around the Eucharist, one ought to celebrate it. Maybe that's just my prejudice.
Of course my church does the opposite, take the Lord's Supper once a week, but in a very minimalist way.
2005-08-08 06:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]I can understand the principle of basing a service around the Eucharist, but it seems to my Protestant mind that if one is going to base a service around the Eucharist, one ought to celebrate it. Maybe that's just my prejudice.
Of course my church does the opposite, take the Lord's Supper once a week, but in a very minimalist way.[/QUOTE]
Why can't we have both Eucharist and great preaching from Scripture?
Cardinal Newman was a great one for that. He was a tremendous preacher. We need to follow his example. On the Protestant side, we have the example of John Wesley, who was a preacher without peer and who believed in the Eucharist (my Catholic understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong).
We have both the "liturgy of the Word" - i.e. Scripture - and the Eucharist. Both are central to the New Worship in Spirit and Truth, as illustrated in Revelation. One is the Word in written form, the other is the Word in the form of bread and wine.
They do NOT exclude each other, but complement each other.
We need both.
2005-08-09 06:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]I can understand the principle of basing a service around the Eucharist, but it seems to my Protestant mind that if one is going to base a service around the Eucharist, one ought to celebrate it. Maybe that's just my prejudice.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what you mean by celebrating it.
As I understand it, Eucharist-centered worship is based on at least two main premises. First, it is something that Christ specifically instructed us to do in rememberance of Him and the new covenant. Secondly, Eucharist-centered worship was the earliest Christian practice, so Orthodoxy maintains that tradition. The Orthodox Divine Liturgy was written in the fourth century and is still used today. (Actually, there's more than one, but most often we used St. John Chrysostom's.) This liturgy was based on the generally accepted practices at that time and which were believed to have been handed down by the Apostles. For example, the Litany for the Catechumens, where all catechumans and non-Orthodox persons are ordered out of the church prior to communion, is a carry-over from the days when outsiders spread false rumors that Christians practiced cannibalism.
I think the only changes in 1600 years have been condensing the original liturgy for layman from four hours to an hour or so, but the long version is still practiced in monastaries. Other parts of the Divine Liturgy, such as Litany for the Departed, can still be done or added as needed. In my parish, we don't do the Litany for the Departed as part of the Divine Liturgy, but once a month, more often if requested, we have a memorial service for the dead, known as a Panikhida, immediately following the Divine Liturgy.
On the specific issue of preaching, different priests handle this differently. Some do more preaching than others, but the main difference is the Eucharist is ALWAYS the central focus whether any preaching is done or not.
There is always Bible reading and this is done according to the Pascal cycle. What this means is ALL Orthodox Christians read the same parts of the Bible on any given Sunday. I could pick any parish of any jurisdiction on any day and know ahead of time what parts of the Scripture would be read by the priest. The congregation is expected to have read and prayed over this Scripture PRIOR to coming to the church service. Even if a person cannot attend liturgy, he should still read the Scripture assigned for that day.
Ok, I hope I'm not boring anyone, but there's a little bit on how preaching, Bible reading, and worship are handled in Orthodoxy.