← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Gabrielle
Thread ID: 19201 | Posts: 58 | Started: 2005-07-18
2005-07-18 23:49 | User Profile
One person posted this: Please Read All Of This Before You Jump To Any Conclusions
To Those Who Want To Burn the Flag Just ask permissionââ¬Â¦.
Does the first Amendment gives us the right to desecrate the American flag? Or is the flag a sacred symbol of our nation, deserving protection by law?
Tough call?
"The Solution"
For those who want to light Old Glory on fire, stomp all over it, or spit on it to make some sort of "statement,"
I say let them do it.
But under one condition: they MUST get permission from three sponsors.
First, you need permission of a war veteran. Perhaps a Marine who fought at Iwo Jima?
The American flag was raised over Mount Surabachi upon the bodies of thousands of dead buddies.
Each night spent on Iwo meant half of everyone you knew would be
dead tomorrow, a coin flip away from a bloody end upon a patch
of sand your mother couldn't find on a map.
Or maybe ask a Vietnam vet who spent years tortured in a small, filthy cell unfit for a dog. Or a Korean War soldier who helped rescue half a nation from Communism, or a Desert Storm warrior who repulsed a bloody dictator from raping and pillaging an innocent country.
That flag represented your mother and father, your sister and brother, your friends, neighbors, and everyone at home.
I wonder what they would say if someone asked them permission to burn the American flag?
Next, you need a signature from an immigrant. Their brothers and sisters may still languish in their native land, often under tyranny, poverty and misery. Or maybe they died on the way here, never to touch our shores.
Some have seen friends and family get tortured and murdered by their own
government for daring to do things we take for granted every day.
For those who risked everything simply for the chance to become an American ... what kind of feelings do they have for the flag when they Pledge Allegiance the first time? Go to a naturalization ceremony and see for yourself, the tears of pride, the thanks, the love and respect of this nation, as they finally embrace the American flag as their own. Ask one of them if it would be OK to tear up the flag.
Last, you should get the signature of a mother. Not just any mother. You need a mother of someone who gave their life for America.
It doesn't even have to be from a war.
It could be a cop. Or a fireman. Maybe a Secret Service or NSA agent. Then again, it could be a common foot soldier as well. When that son or daughter is laid to rest, their family is given one gift by the American people; an American flag. Go on. I dare you. Ask that mother to spit on her flag.
I wonder what the founding fathers thought of the American flag as they drafted the Declaration of Independence? They knew this act would drag young America into war with England, the greatest power on earth. They also knew failure meant more than just a disappointment.
It meant a noose snugly stretched around their necks.
But they needed a symbol, something to inspire the new nation.
Something to represent the seriousness, the purpose and conviction
that we held our new idea of individual freedom. Something worth living for. Something worth dying for.
I wonder how they'd feel if someone asked them permission to toss their flag in a mud puddle?
Away from family, away from the precious shores of home, in the face of overwhelming odds and often in the face of death, the American flag inspires those who believe in the American dream, the American promise, the American vision...
Americans who don't appreciate the flag don't appreciate this nation. And those who appreciate this nation appreciate the American flag. Those who fought, fought for that flag. Those who died, died for that flag. And those who love America love that flag. And defend it.
So if you want to desecrate the American flag, before you spit on it or before you burn it ...
I have a simple request. Just ask permission. Not from the Constitution. Not from some obscure law. Not from the politicians or the pundits. Instead, ask those who defended our nation so that we may be free today. Ask those who struggled to reach our shores so that they may join us in the American dream. And ask those who clutch a flag in place of their sacrificed sons and daughters, given to this nation so that others may be free.
For we cannot ask permission from those who died wishing they could, just once ... or once again ... see, touch or kiss the flag that stands for our nation, the United States of America ...
A retard posted this: I'll spit on it any time I damn well please neo con! I don't need your permission or anyone elses. Your type are why they had rebellions in 1776 and 1861. Oh I''m a Confederate BTw so its not really my flag, just the flag of occupation. so in my case burning it would be to burn the enemies flag.
Someone with sense posted this one: Let me tell all you older guys a story of what it's like when you are your age, and it will not be a war story. It takes place in Europe, of all places, and not just anywhere across the pond either...
We don't have flags in our trucks. In fact, we barely use trucks. We normally don't have flags on our walls (ironicly I do, but these are cheap ones, and represent no current nation.), nor are we allowed to use a flag any way we damn well please. Letting a flag touch the ground can be considered treason in the right circumstances, and it the best case scenarion you'll get away with only a fine. Setting a flag on fire is a sure way to prison.
We don't refer to our flag all the time, we don't use it excessivly, we don't swear allegiance to it (I kow it's spelled wrong, but I could not find the propper spelling), and we do expect other people to know what it looks like.
We do, however, treat our flag with respect. We don't spit on it, throw it to the ground, set it on fire, say bad things about it or anything like that. The flag is a symbol of our nation, but since we don't use it for anything and everything, the feelings towards our flag is soly based on pride. It's not the flag that represents Bondevik and his weird gouvernment, it's not the flag that represents lousy imigration laws, it's the flag that you see waiveing in a few flagpoles. It's innocent, it's pure and it's a symbol of my nationality, not my, or my nations politics.
I guess I can never understand your feelings towards your flag, so I will not even try.
This was posted by an old trouble maker with a really bad mouth:
You are one of those loud talking smarta** know it allls, who always comes up short when it comes to actual knowledge. I won't cut you any slack for being a loud mouthed kid OR a female. If you were half as smart as you think you are, you would know a thousand times as much. Untuil you get some education on the real issues in this site, you should be respectful enough and humble enough to either keep your loud mouth shut or post in the youth section until Derek gets you educated.
I have no time, patience, or respect for a loud mouthed kid with half the knowledge that it thinks it has. If my grandson were to act as obnoxiously mouthy as you, he would get the crap slapped out of him, and he knows more than you do about our issues. Grandson is 8 years old. So there you are, smarta**.
I may get in trouble for this reply, but you need your butt kicked real bad.
Can't stand a smart mouthed kid!
Only leftist scum would burn their country's flag.
2005-07-19 01:18 | User Profile
I don't know if it's a left/right issue with who would burn the flag but I do think the whole "flag burning amendment" is a smokescreen issue. I can't believe people are even wasting their time talking about it. Especially our senators. They are getting paid to talk about crap like this. C'mon. There are more important things. Only a fool would vote or not vote for a certain canidate based on their stance on this issue.
2005-07-19 01:41 | User Profile
Kane,
You're exactly right. When they start talking this crap it means they are up to no good.
2005-07-19 02:48 | User Profile
Here is one for you faggy leftist flag burners.
SF SUPERVISORS VOTE DOWN RESOLUTION SUPPORTING USS IOWA 07/12/05 9:00 PDT SAN FRANCISCO (BCN)
The San Francisco Board of Supervisors today voted 3-8 against a resolution urging the San Francisco Congressional Delegation to support the permanent berthing of the USS Iowa as a museum at the Port of San Francisco.
The congressional delegation secured $3 million in 2000 to move the USS Iowa, which was present at the signing of the treaty between Japan and the U.S. in 1945, from Rhode Island to the Bay Area, the proposed resolution says.
A study commissioned by the Port of San Francisco concluded that the ship would attract more than 500,000 people during its first year at the waterfront, according to the proposed resolution.
But Tom Ammiano said today he didn't want the ship berthed in San Francisco because of the military's treatment of gays and lesbians and its "don't ask, don't tell'' policy.
**"It's dehumanizing,'' Ammiano said. "You are not allowed to be a gay or lesbian in the military except when there is a war and then when the war ends, you are kicked out.'' **
Supervisors Ross Mirkarimi and Chris Daly also spoke out against the resolution, citing their opposition to the US occupation in Iraq.
"I am sad to say I am not proud of the history of the United States of America since the 1940s,'' Daly said.
Supervisors Sean Elsbernd, Fiona Ma and Michela Alioto-Pier voted in favor of the resolution.
[url]http://www2.cbs5.com/localwire/localfsnews/bcn/2005/07/12/n/HeadlineNews/SF-SUPERVISORS/resources_bcn_html[/url]
2005-07-19 02:55 | User Profile
Gabby, do you ever get tired of being wrong?
Nearly every Marine who fought at Iwo Jima and survived is dead. In 15 years time, of what worth is that silly proposal? Zero. The flag flown over that Island, both the first and the last, are pretty safe where they are.
My 24 years serving under the colors and defending the Constitution makes me feel this way:
If you want to buy a flag and go burn it in a political statement, if that is what makes your poem rhyme, go forth. I'll not allow you into my place of business, your money is no good here. And you won't be invited over for tea.
You come to my house and try to take my flag and burn it, you will die with hot lead in your body.
It's really that simple.
Free speech is free speech. Free political expression is free expression. If you want to burn a cross, do it on your own damned property: build it yourself and burn away. You set one up on my lawn to burn, I will open fire. If you want to speak, speak. It is free speech, even if you are being hateful. Hate speech is speech, and it reveals much about the speaker. But it should be free for me to say "Gabby, I hate you for being an airheaded twit." Or, for you to say "Angeleyes, I hate you for being a blowharded BS'er." Chances are, after such an exchange, we won't be having one another over for tea. :disgust: But we should be free to say that, unencumbered by any silly, hypocritical, myopic law.
How hard is that to understand?
EDIT: As to butt pirates in the service: do you want your daughter showering with the boys if she is a soldier? Then why should my son have to shower with fags? 'Nuff said. Suck and blow is what a jet engine should do, not a soldier.
Next.
2005-07-19 04:24 | User Profile
Let's make things clear. This is a debate between two groups:
(1) Those who think freedom should be violated to preserve a putative symbol of freedom.
(2) Those who think the symbol should be left unprotected so that freedom is preserved.
Those in group (1) are morons, regardless of whether they're ex-POWs, relatives of people slain in combat, or anyone else. That's not merely my opinion; it's a FACT. If you think a mere symbol of freedom is more worthy of protection than the actual freedom it's supposed to represent, then YOU are a MORON.
Now, I have no interest in burning any flag -- not even that of Israel, a country I despise. What's the point? Burning a flag doesn't change anything. It's just a symbol. It has no intrinsic value.
However, if for some reason I ever see fit to burn an American flag, I will do so, and I sure as hell don't need to ask for anyone's permission. This country belongs to me just as much as to any other citizen, and if I feel like burning the symbol of my country, then that's my decision. People who don't like it can go cry to someone else.
2005-07-19 04:31 | User Profile
At least burning the flag shows respect for powerful symbolism of the banner--it's far more desecrating and insulting to see the flag exploited by salemen or worse, worn by cheap grifters like RimJob:
[img]http://d21c.com/Mama_Bear/photos/JIM2.jpg[/img]
After that creep belches up tacos and rum onto Old Glory it would be far better to incinerate it...
2005-07-19 04:34 | User Profile
Here is one for you faggy leftist flag burners.
SF SUPERVISORS VOTE DOWN RESOLUTION SUPPORTING USS IOWA 07/12/05 9:00 PDT SAN FRANCISCO (BCN)
The San Francisco Board of Supervisors today voted 3-8 against a resolution urging the San Francisco Congressional Delegation to support the permanent berthing of the USS Iowa as a museum at the Port of San Francisco. [snip]
This is simply idiotic on your part, Gabrielle.
2005-07-19 04:38 | User Profile
Howard,
Speak of the devil. And to think that I attempted to find the photo of Limbaugh holding a US flag with a fierce look on his face and you come up with this. Maybe we should rethink this. Limbaugh and RimJob are both guilty of flag abuse. Hmm, I wonder if Rim Job has a t-shirt with the Israeli flag on it?
2005-07-19 04:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]This is simply idiotic on your part, Gabrielle.[/QUOTE]
Hell, Sert, Boston's as "Lefty" a town as 'Frisco but it's been home to Old Ironsides for a couple of centuries now...
2005-07-19 04:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Howard Campbell, Jr.]At least burning the flag shows respect for powerful symbolism of the banner...[/QUOTE]Good point. And regarding RimJob, his antics (e.g., I heard he flew an Israeli flag on one of the anniversaries of the USS Liberty massacre) are FAR more offensive to me than if he had Old Glory toilet paper.
I care about freedom and the principles this country was founded upon. I don't give a crap about any flag, and I scoff at those mindless fools who worship the flag as some sort of idol. And that's exactly what that is: IDOLATRY. A lot of these pseudo-patriots who whine about flag-burning are so brainwashed, they'd get more upset over seeing someone desecrate a flag than if they saw someone burn a Bible.
2005-07-19 04:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Howard,
Speak of the devil. And to think that I attempted to find the photo of Limbaugh holding a US flag with a fierce look on his face and you come up with this. Maybe we should rethink this. Limbaugh and RimJob are both guilty of flag abuse. Hmm, I wonder if Rim Job has a t-shirt with the Israeli flag on it?[/QUOTE]
RimJob has more respect for the Israeli flag...he'd be "Abe'd" back into hawking vaccuums if he got uppity with the Tribe's totems. :glare:
2005-07-19 05:02 | User Profile
The vile parasite Limbaugh shills for the Global Plutocracy while tirelessly fellating Tel Aviv...like RimJob he (literally) wraps himself in the flag:
[img]http://www.tatteredflag.ca/Images/Rush:Flag.jpg[/img]
2005-07-19 05:03 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Howard Campbell, Jr.]Hell, Sert, Boston's as "Lefty" a town as 'Frisco but it's been home to Old Ironsides for a couple of centuries now...[/QUOTE] Yeah, I know. Years ago I had the privilege to she her. What I can't understand is how Gabrielle can conclude that those of us who regard this as a freedom issue would share the same views as the idiots of San Francisco. These are two different things.
Gawd, what a sickening photo of a simpering swine! :yucky: [IMG]http://www.smailiki.nm.ru/med/med_54.gif[/IMG]
2005-07-19 05:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angler]Good point. And regarding RimJob, his antics (e.g., I heard he flew an Israeli flag on one of the anniversaries of the USS Liberty massacre) are FAR more offensive to me than if he had Old Glory toilet paper.
I care about freedom and the principles this country was founded upon. I don't give a crap about any flag, and I scoff at those mindless fools who worship the flag as some sort of idol. And that's exactly what that is: IDOLATRY. A lot of these pseudo-patriots who whine about flag-burning are so brainwashed, they'd get more upset over seeing someone desecrate a flag than if they saw someone burn a Bible.[/QUOTE]
Angler,
Here's the "We Stand With Israel" rally RimJob held on the anniversary of the [I]Liberty[/I] massacre in 2002:
[url]http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/696876/posts[/url]
Scroll down to #27 for some more genuine flag desecration...
2005-07-19 05:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]What I can't understand is how Gabrielle can conclude that those of us who regard this as a freedom issue would share the same views as the idiots of San Francisco. These are two different things.[/QUOTE]Hey S, didn't you know? If you aren't in the "conservative club" with Limbaugh, Horowitz, Coulter, and RimJob -- if you don't agree with Bush and them on all the issues -- then you're a "liberal" and a "leftist"!
It's kind of like with the issue of the Iraq war: all of us on OD opposed that war, and leftists opposed it as well; ergo, OD must be full of leftists! What impeccable logic! :rolleyes:
2005-07-19 05:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angeleyes]Gabby, do you ever get tired of being wrong?[/QUOTE] Gabby loves to get her knickers in a knot over such diminutive subjects as flag burning. It's about the only stimulus she receives these days.:eek:
2005-07-19 05:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Howard Campbell, Jr.]Angler,
Here's the "We Stand With Israel" rally RimJob held on the anniversary of the [I]Liberty[/I] massacre in 2002:
[url]http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/696876/posts[/url]
Scroll down to #27 for some more genuine flag desecration...[/QUOTE]I basically had to peek at it through my fingers with my hands over my eyes. Abhorrent!! :furious:
2005-07-19 05:25 | User Profile
Angler,
Yep, this board is just loaded with "liberals and Democrats"! Maybe Gabrielle will want to buy some of this "Club Gitmo" trash put out by Limbaugh: [url]http://store.rushlimbaugh.com/[/url] According to Rush, this is "Patriotic". It is also damn expensive and probably made in China to boot.
2005-07-19 11:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius] Maybe Gabrielle will want to buy some of this "Club Gitmo" trash put out by Limbaugh: [url="http://store.rushlimbaugh.com/"]http://store.rushlimbaugh.com/[/url] According to Rush, this is "Patriotic". It is also damn expensive and probably made in China to boot.[/QUOTE] I find the Club Gitmo stuff to be extremely tasteless. We can argue about the level of mistreatment that is taking place, and about how much of it is necessary, but the idea of a bunch of faux-patriot, Israel-worshipping, mega-dittos idiots wearing t-shirts making light of the conditions in a war prison turns my stomach. What did MadScienceType call them? The 101st Chairborne Division?
2005-07-19 12:27 | User Profile
Q,
Not only is it tasteless, it also makes propaganda for the other side. To think, this coming from our foremost "patriot", who is renown for "supporting the troops", ol' el Rushbo. I guess to fat head Limbaugh "supporting the troops" means also supporting Rush's effort to make all sorts of money off the stupidity of his listeners. This is alot worse than what Durbin did.
Don't you know that Boortz is ticked off that he didn't think of this?
2005-07-19 13:29 | User Profile
As for flags and symbolism, I am more offended by the burning of any of the Confederate Flags than I would ever be by the US flag. The Confederate Flag represents the Constitution and the ideas of the founding fathers more than the USflag does today. The more I see our government officials committing treason like supporting La Raza conferences and openly breaking laws to suit themselves and their interests, the more I don't care about issues like burning the flag anymore. If a person burns a flag protesting these things, then I will not oppose him anymore.
2005-07-19 13:33 | User Profile
SKemper,
I can agree with you on this. The internationalists have spent the last 15 years dragging the U.S. flag through the mud. We can look at it this way, when they finally disgrace it beyond redemption, we have another American flag in reserve to replace it with.
2005-07-19 16:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE]What did MadScienceType call them? The 101st Chairborne Division?[/QUOTE] Ha! Hadn't heard that one. [I]Zing![/I]
When I saw the title of this thread I had the same reaction as everybody else. Question mark forming over head; three words on lips, initials W.T.F.
I've long considered Gabby as an embarassment of Raina-proportions, and her continued presence here a good indicator of why America is where she is.
Her kind of patriotism is based squarely on old war movies, Hallmark greeting cards and marching bands flanked by fez-wearing Shriners in tiny little cars. It's [I]love of country [/I] reduced to the cheap and shallow manipulation of the sort of McDonald's or Coca-Cola tv commercial they trot out around Christmastime.
There's never a second thought re silencing Raina (norr should there be). Gabrielle, however, gets a lifetime pass because "at least she's patriotic." That she - and the hundreds of thousands of Manchurian Candidate patriots just like her who are triggered by symbols as if they were post-hypnotic suggestions - enables and empowers the feudal barons who rule us to dismember the Republic and toss the pieces into separate lime-pits (so it can never be pieced back together, ever) seems to me to warrant the very same sort of exile.
2005-07-19 17:59 | User Profile
Only leftist scum would burn their country's flag.
Only a socialist pig would say an unConstitutional pledge to piece of cloth which represents, not a country, but rather worship of the state. In private, do you give the USA state flag the old Hitler salute, like they use to train children in this country to do?
Read this:
Socialistic Origin of the ââ¬ËPledgeââ¬â¢.
Every class day over 60 million public and parochial school teachers and students in the U.S. recite the Pledge of Allegiance along with thousands of Americans at official meetings of the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Elks, Masons, American Legion, and others. During the televised bicentennial celebration of the U.S. Constitution for the school children on September 17, 1987, the children as a group did not recite any part of the Constitution. However, President Reagan did lead the nation's school children in reciting the Pledge. Yet probably not one of them knows the history or original meaning of the Pledge.
In the presidential campaign of 1988, George Bush successfully used the Pledge in his campaign against Mike Dukakis. Ironically, Bush did not seem to know the words of the Pledge until his campaign manager told him to memorize it. The teachers and students in the New England private schools he attended, Greenwich Country Day School and Phillips Andover Academy, did not recite the pledge. By contrast, Dukakis and his mother, a public school teacher, recited the Pledge in the public schools. Yet Bush criticized Dukakis for vetoing a bill in Massachusetts requiring public school teachers but not private school teachers to recite the Pledge. Dukakis vetoed the bill on grounds that it violated the constitutional right of free speech.
How did this Pledge of Allegiance to a flag replace the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights in the affections of many Americans? Among the nations in the world, only the USA and the Philippines, imitating the USA, have a pledge to their flag. Who institutionalized the Pledge as the cornerstone of American patriotic programs and indoctrination in the public and parochial schools?
In 1892, a socialist named Francis Bellamy created the Pledge of Allegiance for Youths' Companion, a national family magazine for youth published in Boston. The magazine had the largest national circulation of its day with a circulation around 500,000. Two liberal businessmen, Daniel Ford and James Upham, his nephew, owned Youths' Companion.
One hundred years ago the American flag was rarely seen in the classroom or in front of the school Upham changed that. In 1888, the magazine began a campaign to sell American flags to the public schools. By 1892, his magazine had sold American flags to about 26 thousands schools.
In 1891, Upham had the idea of using the celebration of the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus' discovery of America to promote the use of the flag in the public schools. The same year, the magazine hired Daniel Ford's radical young friend, Baptist minister, Nationalist, and Christian Socialist leader, Francis Bellamy, to help Upham in his public relations work. Bellamy was the first cousin of the famous American socialist, Edward Bellamy. Edward Bellamy's futuristic novel, "Looking Backward", published in 1888, described a utopian Boston in the year 2000. The book spawned an elitist socialist movement in Boston known as "Nationalism," whose members wanted the federal government to national most of the American economy. Francis Bellamy was a member of this movement and a vice president of its auxiliary group, the Society of Christian Socialists. He was a baptist minister and he lectured and preached on the virtues of socialism and the evils of capitalism. He gave a speech on "Jesus the Socialist" and a series of sermons on "The Socialism of the Primitive Church." In 1891, he was forced to resign from his Boston church, the Bethany Baptist church, because of his socialist activities. He then joined the staff of the Youths' Companion. By February 1892, Francis Bellamy and Upham had lined up the National Education Association to support the Youths' Companion as a sponsor of the national public schools' observance of Columbus Day along with the use of the American flag. By June 29, Bellamy and Upham had arranged for Congress and President Benjamin Harrison to announce a national proclamation making the public school flag ceremony the center of the national Columbus Day celebrations for 1892.
Bellamy, under the supervision of Upham, wrote the program for this celebration, including its flag salute, the Pledge of Allegiance. His version was, "I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the Republic for which it stands -- one nation indivisible -- with liberty and justice for all."
This program and its pledge appeared in the September 8 issue of Youths' Companion. He considered putting the words "fraternity" and "equality" in the Pledge but decided they were too radical and controversial for public schools.
The original Pledge was recited while giving a stiff, uplifted right hand salute, criticized and discontinued during WWII. The words "my flag" were changed to "the flag of the United States of America" because it was feared that the children of immigrants might confuse "my flag" for the flag of their homeland. The phrase, "Under God," was added by Congress and President Eisenhower in 1954 at the urging of the Knights of Columbus.
The American Legion's constitution includes the following goal: "To foster and perpetuate a one hundred percent Americanism." One of its major standing committees was the "Americanism Commission" and its subsidiary, the "Counter Subversive Activities Committee." To the fear of immigrants, it added the fear of communism8. Over the years the Legion has worked closely with the NEA and with the U.S. Office of Education. The Legion insisted on "one hundred percent" Americanism in public school courses in American history, civics, geography and English. The Pledge was a part of this Americanism campaign and, in 1950, the Legion adopted the Pledge as an official part of its own ritual.
In 1922, the Ku Klux Klan, which also had adopted the "one hundred percent Americanism" theme along with the flag ceremonies and the Pledge, became a political power in the state of Oregon and arranged for legislation to be passes requiring all Catholic children to attend public schools. The U.S. Supreme Court later overturned this legislation.
Perhaps a team of social scientists and historians could explain why over the last century the Pledge of Allegiance has become a major centerpiece in American patriotism programs. A pledge or loyalty oath for children was not built around the Declaration of Independence -- "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal..." Or the Gettysburg address -- "a new nation conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal..."
Apparently, over the last century, Americans have been uncomfortable with the word "equality" as a patriotic theme. In 1992 the nation will begin its second century with the Pledge of Allegiance. Perhaps the time has come to see that this allegiance should be to the U.S. constitution and not to a piece of cloth. -----------------------------------------End of article-----
For what does the candy striped flag stand?
Government with the following public policies:
police state
etc......
No thanks. No pledge to the statist for me.
2005-07-19 18:21 | User Profile
It is the responsiblity of every generation to pass on our national symbols to the next generation. If this generation determines our national symbols and values have little relevance, or care so little about the future of our country, then so be it. We will go the way of Rome, Greece, and the USSR.
2005-07-19 18:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno] I've long considered Gabby as an embarassment of Raina-proportions, and her continued presence here a good indicator of why America is where she is.[/QUOTE] Ragno, I understand where you're coming from, and Lord knows, I've had my share of disagreements with Gaby. However, it is my impression that Gabrielle is sincere in her views, and is not simply making whatever statement she thinks will disrupt the board, ala Raina. Therefore, I consider her misguided, but not a troll. She is actually quite sensible on some issues, but her obsessive devotion to Bush and the Republicans, in the face of mountains of evidence, is a little crazy. I guess she just has an extremely well-conditioned doublethink response.
2005-07-19 18:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Gabrielle, however, gets a lifetime pass because "at least she's patriotic."[/QUOTE] No, Il Ragno.
That has nothing to do with it. While at times she can be irritating with some of the more inane posts about Bush, she does provide a certain entertainment value. I would even go so far to say that some of the stuff she posts provokes some interesting replies. As pointed out, she does represent why the minds of Republicans are so screwed up. Raina is a troll. Gabrielle isn't.
2005-07-20 03:26 | User Profile
Any FReakette we know...?
[img]http://www.theguardsman.com/20021106/images/freeper.jpg[/img]
2005-07-20 03:45 | User Profile
Howard,
Don't tell me! "Howlin"? Uh, " Snowbunny"? Or is it the gal involved in the Keyes campaign from 2000?
Whoever that is has the wrong flag flying on the bottom. For the freakers only the chosen on top.
2005-07-20 03:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]No, Il Ragno.
[color=red]Raina:caiphas: is a troll. [/color][color=darkred]Gabrielle:bag: isn't[/color].[/QUOTE] Not to mention Raina is a jewess, however she probably has the coutenance of a troll. Like the Bible says 'their countenance doth witness against them'. Gabby on the other hand is, just a Gabby ol' Goy Hen.
2005-07-20 03:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Howard,
Don't tell me! "Howlin"? Uh, " Snowbunny"? Or is it the gal involved in the Keyes campaign from 2000?
Whoever that is has the wrong flag flying on the bottom. For the freakers only the chosen on top.[/QUOTE]
Sert,
First time I've seen the Gadsen flown beneath the Tel Aviv banner... :glare:
Could be that cretin "Dane" in drag.
2005-07-20 04:06 | User Profile
Howard,
It could be Dane. I noted the Gasden flag as well. Neither it or the U.S. flag belong on the same pole as the Israeli. Leave it to the "freepers" to commit an abomination like that.
2005-07-20 11:43 | User Profile
"Hey you far and few misguided lost souls amongst our white patriotic ranks and brethren!!! Burn the flag of your country and preach Nationalism like you're on a glorious mission???......
If you distraught few amongst us, have the nerve to speak of Nationalism but hate your country...what does that make you?
Obviously not as Nationalist as you claim to be, if at all...other than by self declaration. This is not your country if you burn your flag.
I can't ever recall the American Flag having six pointed stars, can any of you?
Is the penalty for treason ever really inforced in this country? Our FOREFATHERS(not your or I because of legality) would have had flag burners shot or hanging from trees.
I love my country, and I know all other White Nationalists in their right minds do with an ARYAN FIRE burning in their WHITE HEARTS!
So do any of you select few really want to be like our former (patriotic country loving)president Slick Willy Bill Clinton and burn our belloved American Flag; and while we're at it, we can raise the flag of the sickle and hammer? Now what would that make you misguided and very-very few flag burning self proclaimed country hating nationalists?
Go ahead and be just like (Hanoi)Jane Fonda, and John Kerry. Don't believe in our flag and support the red hand.
You poor poor misguided few amongst our white ranks, tell us all how you hate your country founded by WHITE EUROPEANS. You can burn our flag and say it's ok, and you can take our guns, and you can try to destroy our glorious white heritage... I for one know the only way someone can have my firearms, and that is to pry them from my cold dead fingers. Our flag goes right along with the sacrifices that are fellow countrymen have made for the people that belong here!......The sacrifices that our fellow countrymen will make time and time again...while traitors have the nerve to desecrate our beloved symbol of glory!
We unfortunately have become a nation of White Aryan Brothers invaded/integrated by leftist and 3rd world scum. Does that mean we give up the fight for what is ours? NO!
Mess with my flag, mess with my guns, mess with my race, mess with my family, and mess with the core system of beliefs that makes us WHITE AND PROUD!
If you burn my flag you don't belong in my country.
For race and 14/NATION/88 we stand PROUD!
Hail to our Fallen in memorium & pride...
Forever glorious we are for their SACRIFICES...
Their HONOR...
Their COURAGE...
Their VALOR...
Their BRAVERY & HEROISM......
RESPECT-REMEMBER-HONOR-PROTECT the standard of OUR FATHERLAND and those who have fallen...!!!OUR BELLOVED FLAG!!!...
-OR GET OUT OF OUR COUNTRY!"
Amen Brother!
2005-07-20 11:50 | User Profile
See, Il Ragno?
The post above is high comedy, particularly when you factor in the Bush support.
2005-07-20 11:51 | User Profile
Again.............WTF?!?
2005-07-20 12:26 | User Profile
gab quote:I can't ever recall the American Flag having six pointed stars, can any of you?
lincoln was a murdering tyrant. He was a Republican, also. lincoln was the point man for the overthrowing of Constitutional gov't in this country. It's been downhill ever since. The centralised, all powerful empire was installed by lincoln. lincoln destroyed self gov't and states rights. He hijacked the USA flag and has turned it into something repulsive to the world. lincoln had direct links to the Bildebergers and the world bankers. lincoln was a socialist with communist ties.
Bush is a Republican and continues to make the USA repulsive and hated by the world. Bush is a socialist (better one than Klintoon). Bush believes in the communist social agenda. Like lincoln, Bush is a liar and is not what you think he is.
What we live with today is not even the same country in which we grew up. The last time men were free was under the Confederate Third National flag. That is my flag. It represents Constitutional gov't, self gov't and states rights. But I don't even say a pledge to it. I want God to have His rightful place in the affairs of men and government. To say one is not patriotic and doesn't love his country because he doesn't say a pledge, an oath of allegiance, is herecy. The Founders never said a pledge. They weren't statists like the statists who implemented the pledge.
You need a history lesson. Maybe you should take up cooking as a hobby.
2005-07-20 12:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Howard Campbell, Jr.]Any FReakette we know...?
[img]http://www.theguardsman.com/20021106/images/freeper.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]The sign says, "An American solider saved your whiny hiney today!"
First of all, it's spelled "heinie." Second of all, what did the hell did any soldier save me from in my lifetime? I want to know.
I don't know why so many people are too stupid to understand this: The US military DOES NOT fight for Americans' freedom! The ONLY credible threat to American freedom is the American government, and the US military does not fight the US government -- it takes orders from it! I'm not saying we don't need a military (to protect borders, to patrol the coast by air and sea, etc.), but I'm sick of these lies about "defending freedom." If anything, the military poses a potential danger to American freedom. It's up to American citizens to defend their own rights.
The FReeping morons can have their War on Terror, their Jewish vermin, their illegal immigrants, and all the rest, and they can continue to worship the cloth idol that has come to symbolize all these things. They can remove their baseball caps and turn into teary-eyed faggots whenever the National Anthem is sung before some stupid-ass baseball game. I'll continue to sneer at them contemptuously.
2005-07-20 13:05 | User Profile
Angler,
It would be more appropriate for the "freepers" to turn their ballcaps backwards.
2005-07-20 16:25 | User Profile
If Gabby's a troll, then she's a quite sophisticated one. Personally, I think her "Bush-walks-on-water" act is a form of high satire of the FReeper types, but I could be wrong.
It might turn out she's a grad student in psychology, desperately working to finish that master's thesis on "Trends in Political Psycholgy and Personality Archetypes of the Left/Right Axis" or somesuch (the more words in the title the better). She might be found on leftist boards fellating John Kerry and Hilary Clinton (no the one verb used for both's not an accident) with equal vigor, though it would be hard to tell her from the worshipful background noise there, just as her posts here wouldn't stand out in FReeperland, so it's us she's stuck with for research material.
Then again, maybe her meds just ran out one day and she never bothered to refill the prescription.
2005-07-20 17:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle] Is the penalty for treason ever really inforced in this country?
Obviously not, Jane Fonda still breathes.
RESPECT-REMEMBER-HONOR-PROTECT the standard of OUR FATHERLAND and those who have fallen...!!!OUR BELLOVED FLAG!!!... -OR GET OUT OF OUR COUNTRY!" Amen Brother![/QUOTE] While I sympathise with the sentiment, how do you intend to enforce it, O' foaming blowhard? By yelling at people who disagree with you? Or by opening fire?
Honey or vinegar? Which draws more flies?
2005-07-20 17:32 | User Profile
Angler. The military does exactly what it is supposed to do: carry out the lawful orders of the civilian leadership per the Constitution. Your distaste for those orders, and your disagreement for the lawfulness of many recent orders is acknowledged, and not a rat hole I wish to run down at present.
You cannot sit behind your borders, not in this day and age, and wait for some one to screw with you. The Maginot Line mentality leads to defeat.
That does NOT mean one goes out looking for excuses to use American armed might to blow things up, as it appears is the case in the Iraq mess, or was the case in Serbia.
You are in pretty good company with regarding what does not constitute a valid use of American Military force.
[QUOTE=Angler]The sign says, "An American solider saved your whiny hiney today!"
First of all, it's spelled "heinie." Second of all, what did the hell did any soldier save me from in my lifetime? I want to know.
I don't know why so many people are too stupid to understand this: The US military DOES NOT fight for Americans' freedom! The ONLY credible threat to American freedom is the American government, and the US military does not fight the US government -- it takes orders from it! I'm not saying we don't need a military (to protect borders, to patrol the coast by air and sea, etc.), but I'm sick of these lies about "defending freedom." If anything, the military poses a potential danger to American freedom. It's up to American citizens to defend their own rights.
The FReeping morons can have their War on Terror, their Jewish vermin, their illegal immigrants, and all the rest, and they can continue to worship the cloth idol that has come to symbolize all these things. They can remove their baseball caps and turn into teary-eyed faggots whenever the National Anthem is sung before some stupid-ass baseball game. I'll continue to sneer at them contemptuously.[/QUOTE]
2005-07-20 21:43 | User Profile
A.E. Quote: "You cannot sit behind your borders, not in this day and age, and wait for some one to screw with you."
If we minded our own business, perhaps the world would think more highly of us. Perhaps the ones who wish to "get us" have a bone to pick due to some neo-cons arrogant use of gov't power outside the USA.
If this country returned to the Constitution, and citizens exercised their right to arm them selves with military hardware, no one on earth would want to mess with us. This nation would be unconquerable with militarily armed citizens.
2005-07-20 22:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CWRWinger]A.E. Quote: "You cannot sit behind your borders, not in this day and age, and wait for some one to screw with you."
If we minded our own business, perhaps the world would think more highly of us. Perhaps the ones who wish to "get us" have a bone to pick due to some neo-cons arrogant use of gov't power outside the USA.[/QUOTE] It is one thing to be "constructively engaged" and quite another to go out causing trouble.
You may be absolutely right. I don't know what the reaction would be if America withdrew behind our borders. Twice before, big old wars erupted that hit us in the wallet, as it disrupted our economic strength: international trade. Well, it hit certain sectors of our society in the wallet, anyway.
2005-07-20 22:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CWRWinger]gab quote:I can't ever recall the American Flag having six pointed stars, can any of you?
lincoln was a murdering tyrant. He was a Republican, also. lincoln was the point man for the overthrowing of Constitutional gov't in this country. It's been downhill ever since. The centralised, all powerful empire was installed by lincoln. lincoln destroyed self gov't and states rights. He hijacked the USA flag and has turned it into something repulsive to the world. lincoln had direct links to the Bildebergers and the world bankers. lincoln was a socialist with communist ties.
Bush is a Republican and continues to make the USA repulsive and hated by the world. Bush is a socialist (better one than Klintoon). Bush believes in the communist social agenda. Like lincoln, Bush is a liar and is not what you think he is.
What we live with today is not even the same country in which we grew up. The last time men were free was under the Confederate Third National flag. That is my flag. It represents Constitutional gov't, self gov't and states rights. But I don't even say a pledge to it. I want God to have His rightful place in the affairs of men and government. To say one is not patriotic and doesn't love his country because he doesn't say a pledge, an oath of allegiance, is herecy. The Founders never said a pledge. They weren't statists like the statists who implemented the pledge.
You need a history lesson. Maybe you should take up cooking as a hobby.[/QUOTE] Amen Brother. A couple more points though the masonic dishrag we call the flag was actually Lincoln's battle flag. And it represents tyranny to this day. All wars fought by this country since the civil war were as unjustified as that conflict was. And were perpetrated by the same bunch.
2005-07-20 23:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE]A couple more points though the masonic dishrag we call the flag was actually Lincoln's battle flag.[/QUOTE] That flag existed long before "Father Abraham". It was Washington's and those (like Jefferson Davis) all the way up to the time of the War for Southern Independence. Things like this is why I think Sam Francis has the correct view on "Neoconfederates".
2005-07-21 00:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]That flag existed long before "Father Abraham". It was Washington's and those (like Jefferson Davis) all the way up to the time of the War for Southern Independence. Things like this is why I think Sam Francis has the correct view on "Neoconfederates".[/QUOTE] Are you speaking of Betsy Rossenstein's flag?
2005-07-21 00:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE] Are you speaking of Betsy Rossenstein's flag?[/QUOTE] Killer, I have no idea of what you are talking about.
2005-07-21 01:16 | User Profile
Quote: Are you speaking of Betsy Rossenstein's flag?
Killer, I have no idea of what you are talking about.
No sir. I believe Killer has it right. The red and white striped banner (without the field of blue with stars) was the official flag of the New York wingding bankers, before the American Revolution. It may have been used on slave ships, also.
2005-07-21 01:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CWRWinger]Quote: *Are you speaking of Betsy Rossenstein's flag? *
Killer, I have no idea of what you are talking about.
No sir. I believe Killer has it right. The red and white striped banner (without the field of blue with stars) was the official flag of the New York wingding bankers, before the American Revolution. It may have been used on slave ships, also.[/QUOTE]I believe it may have looked like this.[img]http://www.aztlan.net/newusflag.jpg[/img]
2005-07-21 01:20 | User Profile
6Killer,
Would you mind explaining the meaning of the cartoon quote in the photo you are posting? There is something inconsistent about with the graphics, links and avitar of your posts and that photo.
2005-07-21 01:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CWRWinger]6Killer,
Would you mind explaining the meaning of the cartoon quote in the photo you are posting? There is something inconsistent about with the graphics, links and avitar of your posts and that photo.[/QUOTE] It did a google search after I posted and it took me to it. Just thought I would post it to yank Sert's chain. I don't endorse it in any way what so ever.
2005-07-21 01:24 | User Profile
Okay, guys, I'm going to leave it with you.
2005-07-21 01:29 | User Profile
Okay, guys,
Yes, you are from Atlanta, Sert. (The other Georgia)
BOYCOTT ATLANTA!
2005-07-21 01:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CWRWinger]Quote: *Are you speaking of Betsy Rossenstein's flag?
Killer, I have no idea of what you are talking about.*
No sir. I believe Killer has it right. The red and white striped banner (without the field of blue with stars) was the official flag of the New York wingding bankers, before the American Revolution. It may have been used on slave ships, also.[/QUOTE] I think the striped banner you mention was used by jewish slavers like Aaron Lopez and other Rhode Island jews.
2005-07-21 12:45 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CWRWinger]Okay, guys,
Yes, you are from Atlanta, Sert. (The other Georgia)
BOYCOTT ATLANTA![/QUOTE] Chamblee, actually and old enough to remember Atlanta from years gone by and to recognize a slight from an ignorant redneck peckerwood when I read one.
2005-07-24 06:04 | User Profile
So before I would burn the current red,white and bule fag rag, I would need the permission of three fools who fought in the great capitalistic wars, that bleed the White race and advanced the current global gangster cabal. Burning the fag rag is a distraction issue and is a pointless act anyway.
What does my generation really owe the older ones beside the middle finger, not much. Anyway America does not exist as a nation it is a ploygot empire that is going out Roman style. Why care about a revolution that was soldout the second it took power. The American merchant revolution and the concraptiution are but a ball and chain around the neck and wrists of the White Race.
2005-07-25 04:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Chamblee, actually and old enough to remember Atlanta from years gone by and to recognize a slight from an ignorant redneck peckerwood when I read one.[/QUOTE]Were you there with the Klan when the took Stone Mountain?