← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Faust
Thread ID: 19096 | Posts: 31 | Started: 2005-07-11
2005-07-11 18:55 | User Profile
Karl Rove
It look like he has been caught red handed in the Valerie Plame case. I think he will get away with it.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Rove[/url]
That was funny: [QUOTE]The television show American Dad depicted Rove as a shadowy figure clad in a red robe and cowl, a visual allusion to the villainous Star Wars character Emperor Palpatine. Whenever his name is said a wolf howls. When he tried to enter a church, he began to emit smoke; when he later departed the scene, he transformed into a swarm of bats.[/QUOTE]
2005-07-11 19:05 | User Profile
Rove, a probable sodomite, will of course go unpunished for any traitorous act that he committed and most likely be promoted by Dubya Bush.
Plus, that neocon stooge Judith Miller is in jail because she won't leak the source right? She either stays in jail for a long time or she rats out the source only to subsequently "disappear" by way of an "accident". It's a tough life running with the mob.
2005-07-11 19:12 | User Profile
xmetalhead,
You are right.
More stuff: [QUOTE]Is anyone surprised to find out that Karl Roveââ¬â¢s right hand man, Israel Hernandez, is an avowed sodomite? Is anyone surprised to find out that Bush has just appointed this avowed sodomite Assistant Secretary of Commerce? And is anyone surprised that WORLD magazine says, and most of their commenters agree, that a ââ¬Åconservativeââ¬Â president appointing an avowed sodomite to a top post is no big deal?
Jeff Gannon/Jim Guckert, the homosexual prostitute who ran around the White House for 2 years with Secret Service ID issued under a fake name, and spent 12 overnights at the White House, was almost certainly sodomizing either Rove and/or Bush. Queer hookers advertising on the internet donââ¬â¢t obtain White House security clearances and official Secret Service ID under fake names, without someone at the very top pulling some very powerful strings. There are rumors that Bush is queer, but I donââ¬â¢t believe them. At least not yet, anyway. But Rove almost certainly is. He tapped Ken Mehlman to run the RNC, and Mehlman is a homo. He tapped homo Israel Hernandez to be his senior aide. Whoever it is, Rove, Bush, Cheneyââ¬Â¦ that was sponsoring Gannon/Guckert, and keeps recruiting sodomites for cushy jobsââ¬Â¦thereââ¬â¢s something very strange about all these sodomites turning up in high places in a ââ¬Åconservativeââ¬Â administration.
[url]http://www.littlegeneva.com/badlands/index.php?p=712[/url][/QUOTE]
Google search: 3,880 for "Karl Rove" sodomite. [url]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Karl+Rove%22+sodomite&btnG=Search[/url]
2005-07-11 19:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]Rove, a probable sodomite, will of course go unpunished for any traitorous act that he committed and most likely be promoted by Dubya Bush.
Plus, that neocon stooge Judith Miller is in jail because she won't leak the source right? She either stays in jail for a long time or she rats out the source only to subsequently "disappear" by way of an "accident". It's a tough life running with the mob.[/QUOTE]
I've seen some commentary on Judith Miller saying that her refusal to testify is more likely a move to resurrect her career and reputation; her "source" has apparently released her from confidentiality same as Moore. Here's Cockburn with one opinion on Judy the Martyr:
[url]http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn07072005.html[/url]
2005-07-12 02:19 | User Profile
[I]There are rumors that Bush is queer, but I donââ¬â¢t believe them. At least not yet, anyway. But Rove almost certainly is. He tapped Ken Mehlman to run the RNC, and Mehlman is a homo. He tapped homo Israel Hernandez to be his senior aide. Whoever it is, Rove, Bush, Cheneyââ¬Â¦ that was sponsoring Gannon/Guckert, and keeps recruiting sodomites for cushy jobsââ¬Â¦thereââ¬â¢s something very strange about all these sodomites turning up in high places in a ââ¬Åconservativeââ¬Â administration.[/I]http://www.littlegeneva.com/badlands/index.php?p=712
And one recalls this Guckert turned up with the identity of Valerie Plame early in the assault on Wilson. He's saying now:
[I][B]Did Gannon Obtain a Classified Intelligence Memo? [/B] In his interview with Joseph Wilson published by Talon News on October 28, 2003, Jeff Gannon asked Joseph Wilson: An internal government memo prepared by U.S. intelligence personnel details a meeting in early 2002 where your wife, a member of the agency for clandestine service working on Iraqi weapons issues, suggested that you could be sent to investigate the reports. Do you dispute that[/I]
****/ This is ineluctable evidence, I would judge, that: a. he was part of the program of discrediting Wilson; and b. he got the info from Rove.
One knowledgeable blogger connects John Bolton. Note explicit link to "neoconservatives".
[I]Wilson indicates that the work up on him beginning March, 2003, turned up the information on Valerie -- which was then shared with Karl Rove who then circulated it through Administration and neo-Conservative circles. He cites conservative journalists who claimed to have had the information before the Novak column. So the question is -- in the work-up process beginning about March 2003, who had the information re: Plame?
[B] I think it was John Bolton[/B]. At the time he was State Department Deputy Secretary with the portfolio in WMD and Nuclear Proliferation. Assuming that Valerie Plame's identity was that of a NOC (No Official Cover) the information about her would have been highly classified, compartmentalized, and only those with a need to know would know. Bolton's Job probably gave him that status. However to receive it he would have to sign off on the classification -- that is he would have to agree to retain the security the CIA had established.
[B]At the time, Bolton had two assistants who also worked in the White House in Cheney's office, David Wurmser and John Hannah. Their names have been around as the potential leakers -- Hannah if you remember is the guy who kept putting the Yellow Cake back in Bush's speeches even though Tenet had demanded it be removed.
So -- [/B] "[/I]
*/ And then there is this, echoing the above, and leading to ..Jeanene Garofalo! (I'm going over to radical-liberal. They know what treason is and aren't ashamed to use the word, as opposed to flip-flop conservatives. Today we're anti-Zionist Jew; tomorrow? ...well, hey, you never know...Karl in tutu, and YHWH too!)
[I]"[B]Sam Seder: Just go back to the Gannon thing for a little bit, where do you think the investigation is going to come from?
Bob Brigham: I think that Congress, in one way or anot her, is going to have to start investigating. If this continues to be a blog-driven investigation, it's a worse case scenario for a lot of Republicans, specifically Republicans who might have hypocrisy liability on a gay prostitute story and it will actually defuse the story somewhat by there being an investigation, just because then it won't be just constantly the blogosphere outing more and more Republican hypocrites. Sam Seder: So Bob, let me read between the lines here. What you're saying is that there may be information out there, that there are some gentleman involved in the White House, who have taken some positions that would be inconsistent with perhaps some of their sexual dalliances.
Bob Brigham: You know, the Republican Party has more perverts than a whorehouse on Saturday night. Sam Seder: Sweet Bob
Janeane Garofalo: Nice one.
Bob Brigham: We saw this in the nineties with Clinton. And the hypocrisy there when that come to light was very telling in the true moral character of the Republican Party. Sam Seder: That's right. Henry Hyde had like three girlfriends or something like that.
Bob Brigham: Livingston was taken down, was Speaker for what, a week? And now that that the Republican Party has spent two years bashing gays, that is going to catch up with the Republican Party also. The fact that they are now bashing the AARP on gay marriage, they're seniors, they aren't having gay sex, they aren't having any sex. It's seniors. It just shows how ridiculous the entire smearing people as homosexual, conduct has become in the Republican Party and they're going to pay a price for their hubris.
Sam Seder: So you're saying that there's going to be perhaps a couple of Ed Shrockian moments coming up? Bob Brigham: I think definitly. I think that is going to be a very interesting swing of the penjelum. Janeane Garofalo: May I throw my two cents in Bob, because you've be unbelievably polite about this. Here's exactly is going to happen. Here is what the Gannon/Guckert sexual hypocrisy, whatever the scandal is, beyond the scandal we all know about. My gut feeling is that Karl Rove is either bisexual or gay, Scott McClellan, either bisexual or gay and either one of those two men - I tend to think it is Karl Rove - has had an affair with Ganon/Guckert." [/B] [/I]
This is corker, folks.
2005-07-12 21:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=TexasAnarch]There are rumors that Bush is queer, but I donââ¬â¢t believe them. At least not yet, anyway. But Rove almost certainly is. He tapped Ken Mehlman to run the RNC, and Mehlman is a homo. He tapped homo Israel Hernandez to be his senior aide. Whoever it is, Rove, Bush, Cheneyââ¬Â¦ that was sponsoring Gannon/Guckert, and keeps recruiting sodomites for cushy jobsââ¬Â¦ so he can tap* them? *
Was that pun intentional??? I wonder. Bad visual. :clown:
Something foul about the image of a bunch of yuppy butt pirates tapping one another in the White House. That just ain't right.
2005-07-13 01:00 | User Profile
I've known that this guy was one screwed up person for a long time, and now its being confirmed. I knew I was a jack*ss the minute I saw the statements he had made in the past.
2005-07-13 18:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Karl Roveââ¬â¢s right hand man, Israel Hernandez, is an avowed sodomite?[/QUOTE]Let me see if I have this straight -- Party Chairman Ken Mehlman is a homosexual Jew. Karl Rove is an alleged homosexual. Roveââ¬â¢s "right hand man" (Israel Hernandez) is a homosexual Jew. Republican "kingmaker" Arthur Finkelstein is a homosexual Jew.
2005-07-13 18:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=mwdallas]Let me see if I have this straight -- Party Chairman Ken Mehlman is a homosexual Jew. Karl Rove is an alleged homosexual. Roveââ¬â¢s "right hand man" (Israel Hernandez) is a homosexual Jew. Republican "kingmaker" Arthur Finkelstein is a homosexual Jew.[/QUOTE] Right, but Bush is a born-again, sincere, conservative Christian, who is going to take a stand against faggot 'marriage.' :rolleyes:
On a related note, have you heard the Republican talking point as to why Rove is supposedly not guilty? The statue he is accused of violating reportedly says that it is illegal to 'name' an undercover operative. But according to Rove's defenders, he didn't say 'Valerie Plame'; instead, he merely said 'Ambassador's Wilson's wife', so he didn't technically 'name' her. Pretty Clintonesque.
2005-07-13 20:55 | User Profile
Oh, I see, Quantrill -- the prosecution should target Valerie Plame's parents, who are really the ones who named her. Valerie? Not my favorite name, but hardly criminal....
2005-07-13 22:27 | User Profile
Let's assume that she did work undercover at one time as a CIA officer. The people she dealt with are agents. That means when she lost her cover everyone who had contact with her is put at risk and we lost another source of intelligence.
That is a crime, betraying intelligence assets.
2005-07-14 04:54 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Let's assume that she did work undercover at one time as a CIA officer. The people she dealt with are agents. That means when she lost her cover everyone who had contact with her is put at risk and we lost another source of intelligence.
That is a crime, betraying intelligence assets.[/QUOTE] Check. If Rove did it, he needs to either play Agee and run to England to publish his book, or become as one with the General Population in a Federal Pen. Lorton sounds good.
2005-07-14 13:00 | User Profile
[url="http://www.karlroveistoast.com/"][url]http://www.karlroveistoast.com/[/url][/url] [img]http://www.karlroveistoast.com/images/clock.jpg[/img]
2005-07-14 14:25 | User Profile
President Bush said he would fire anyone who leaked this information from his administration when it was Rove all along. Rove was the "architect" behind Bush's re-election strategy. Therefore, Bush's 2nd term is an ill-gotten gain brought about by an illegal power grab in 2000, an illegal war in Iraq, an Illegal leak to the press to cover up his illegal lies building up to that war, and an illegal cover up to hide the original cover up from the people. Once again, he is a totally illegitimate president and needs to be impeached and thrown in jail.
2005-07-14 14:42 | User Profile
A liberal at my job told me that Karl Rove was fired by Presidnet George Bush Senior years ago for leaking information. Can't substantiate that story but it rings true. Anyone know anything about that?
2005-07-15 03:34 | User Profile
[IMG]http://www.dudehisattva.com/arrestedRove.jpg[/IMG] Xmetal,
[QUOTE] Although Rove was an advisor ostensibly working behind the scenes, his name continued to be associated with public controversy. During George H.W. Bush's second presidential campaign, Rove was fired from the campaign team because of suspicions that he had leaked information to columnist Robert Novak ââ¬â the same columnist who first reported Plame's CIA role in 2003, citing anonymous administration sources.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/showcase/la-na-rove13jul13.story[/url]
2005-07-15 03:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius][img]http://www.dudehisattva.com/arrestedRove.jpg[/img] Xmetal,
The story about Bush Sr. firing Rove is true. I'll see if I can find some details on it. =====================
[url="http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/showcase/la-na-rove13jul13.story"]http://www.latimes.com/news/custom/showcase/la-na-rove13jul13.story[/url][/QUOTE] And the plot keeps getting thicker.
2005-07-15 04:49 | User Profile
Elder Bush also told Wolfowitz to pound sand with his "take over the Mid East at gunpoint" ideas. The son is not the father, though you might say the apple did not fall all that far from the tree.
Q: Is that pictue of Rove being arrested for real? Did I miss a news story?
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]A liberal at my job told me that Karl Rove was fired by Presidnet George Bush Senior years ago for leaking information. Can't substantiate that story but it rings true. Anyone know anything about that?[/QUOTE]
2005-07-15 04:59 | User Profile
AE,
It's a parody. I hope one day there will be a real picture of him and others being arrested.
2005-07-15 05:01 | User Profile
If he ratted out a CIA agent, or did the old political reprisal crap for someone telling the truth, by God, that man needs to go to jail. :sad:
[QUOTE=Sertorius]AE,
It's a parody. I hope one day there will be a real picture of him and others being arrested.[/QUOTE]
2005-07-15 05:32 | User Profile
Jeff Gannon/Jim Guckert, the homosexual prostitute who ran around the White House for 2 years with Secret Service ID issued under a fake name, and spent 12 overnights at the White House, was almost certainly sodomizing either Rove and/or Bush.
I'm sorry, but this is the kind of thing that ruins Little Geneva' credibility.
Nobody despises the Bush/AIPAC White House more than me, but replace the GOP names with Democratic ones and this is the exact sort of thing you'd read on FR, or in an Ann Coulter column - or the New York Post.
Rove is an administration official who compromised an agent's identity to settle a political score. Were he an administration opponent, or an avowed leftist openly hostile to the CIA, we all know where he'd be headed for such an act: either to an airport dressed in a trenchcoat and dark glasses, or to a penitentiary dressed in an orange jumpsuit. Making authoritative claims based solely on bad blood and thin air can only help Bush and Rove.
2005-07-15 06:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]I'm sorry, but this is the kind of thing that ruins Little Geneva' credibility.
Nobody despises the Bush/AIPAC White House more than me, but replace the GOP names with Democratic ones and this is the exact sort of thing you'd read on FR, or in an Ann Coulter column - or the New York Post.
[/QUOTE]
So, what's your point? you don't seem to 'despise' them at all, really. How do you know what Guckert was or wasn't doing in the White House? Speaking of the NY Post, this sounds like Podwhoretz, basically admitting there is no reply by the attempt to make one.
What don't you understand about lying to justify war? Maybe it doesn't make any difference?
There is something seriously wrong with people here who won't follow through with what has been established as fact but retreat into hatred of the same ol' same ol'. They are part of the same ol' same ol' and responsible for the slaughter in London by the way they are, whether they admit it or not. Whoever voted for Bush is the enemy of humanity. Forever.
2005-07-15 06:54 | User Profile
You know - you're right!
I'm pro-Bush, pro-war, pro-Jew and pro-sodomy. However could I have deluded myself that I wasn't?
And you're right again. [u]I, and I alone, killed all those people in London[/u]. The minute I doubted that George Bush was being ****ed in the ass by Jeff Gannon on the say-so of a couple of hardcore fundamentalist bloggers, I retroactively hit the detonators the week before. Sorry, England, but you deserved it for your hideous cuisine alone.
Wow - confession really is good for the soul. That's a big load off my mind. Thanks, Texas Anarch for outing me to the truth.
And to think I had you pegged as a just-barely-functional mental retard for all these years. Just goes to show how wrong you can be sometimes. Thanks again!
2005-07-15 07:36 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]You know - you're right!
. Thanks again![/QUOTE]
Glad to help...
2005-07-15 13:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Xmetal,
Quote: Although Rove was an advisor ostensibly working behind the scenes, his name continued to be associated with public controversy. During George H.W. Bush's second presidential campaign, Rove was fired from the campaign team because of suspicions that he had leaked information to columnist Robert Novak ââ¬â the same columnist who first reported Plame's CIA role in 2003, citing anonymous administration sources. [/QUOTE]
Thanks Sertorius. And considering that Rove leaked information to Novak in the past and was fired and is now thought to have leaked information of a CIA op to the same guy in the present, I'd say that Rove is a highly suspicious suspect.
And to think, just a two weeks ago, Rove was shooting his mouth off in NYC about how after 9/11 "liberals" wanted to offer Al Qaeda "therapy and understanding"..... as if Rove & Co. pursued a better plan of action.
They're all a bunch of assholes.
2005-07-15 14:05 | User Profile
XM,
You're welcome. I think this goes alot deeper than Rove. This mess goes all the way to the VP's office. Let's not forget there were two people shopping this story about Wilson. I bet the other guy that Fitzgerald is really after is Scooter Libby. See Raimondo's latest column. What he wrote fits these s.o.b.s perfectly. [QUOTE]They're all a bunch of assholes.[/QUOTE] Isn't that the truth. As far as I'm concerned, the Bush gang is nothing more than a continuation of the sleaze and smears we knew from the Clinton gang.
2005-07-15 14:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]XM,
You're welcome. I think this goes alot deeper than Rove. This mess goes all the way to the VP's office. Let's not forget there were two people shopping this story about Wilson. I bet the other guy that Fitzgerald is really after is Scooter Libby. See Raimondo's latest column. What he wrote fits these s.o.b.s perfectly.[/QUOTE]
Cockburn speculates on Miller's motives and actions here:
[url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19097[/url]
Wasn't Miller tied with Libby in the aftermath of her WMD-scoop glory days? It does seem likely, given how her information always tracked with the stovepipes from the OSP and vice-versa, that Miller was closely tied to Libby and therefore Cheney, tieing in Wolfowitz, Rove and more.
2005-07-15 14:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angeleyes]If he ratted out a CIA agent, or did the old political reprisal crap for someone telling the truth, by God, that man needs to go to jail. :sad:[/QUOTE] Angel:
Herein lies the problem: Plame was not an "agent" at the time of her so-called "outing"(the actual term is officer) she was an analyst---not a covert postion. The last [u]posssible[/u] covert postion she held was in 1997. Given the 1997 date, the rule that protected her did so only until 2002.
The next problem is that a covert officer isn't o covert when married to an ambassador (another useless postion given to idiots that are usually friends of the admnistration in power) Her being a covert operative (I love that term!:biggrin:) as the wife of an ambassador would render her all but useless for all but window dressing. Covert types are usually the low ranked folks atany emabassy--and they are the press reps, the secretaries---the low attention stuff. Incidentally, the law that protects the CIA folks was opposed by all the usual libs---not to mention the NY Times.
Getting back to angents and the like, John Kerry blabbed the name of a CIA operative (or officer) in an open committee meeting---why wasn't he taken out and tossed in the clink?
I'm no fan of Rove, Bush or the rest---but I would like to see this properly investigated before many call for Rove's head on the proverbial silver platter.
I am wondering if Ambassador Wilson is not very trustworthy himself. The reports that he brought back from Niger first confirmed that Saddam WAS trying to get yellow cake from Niger--then it didn't. Some there smells like a rotten fish. (Even if the yellow cake story WERE tru, it would not have warrented a war--in case you were wondering) As for the political retribution--I would hope that you are as hard on the rest of the politicians as you are on Rove and company.
They all pratice the same silly game---and all are guilty of far worse.
Regards...
FF
2005-07-15 14:23 | User Profile
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14777-2004Oct7.html[/url]
Journalist Cited for Contempt in Leak Probe Reporter Refused To Discuss Sources
By Carol D. Leonnig Washington Post Staff Writer Friday, October 8, 2004; Page A02
A federal judge found New York Times reporter Judith Miller in contempt of court yesterday and ordered her jailed for as long as 18 months for refusing to answer questions before a grand jury investigating the leak of a covert CIA operative's identity to the news media.
Miller told U.S. District Chief Judge Thomas F. Hogan at a hearing yesterday that she would not answer questions from special prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald about her conversations with confidential sources. Hogan said Miller had no special right as a reporter to defy a subpoena in a criminal investigation, but agreed she could remain free on bond while the Times appealed his decision.
"It's really frightening when journalists can be put in jail for doing their job effectively," Miller said. "This is about all journalists and about all government officials who provide information on the promise of confidentiality. Without that, they won't come forward, and the public won't be informed."
Miller is the latest in a series of reporters to be subpoenaed to testify by Fitzgerald about whether they had conversations with senior administration officials in 2003 about former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV's trip to the African nation of Niger. Wilson was sent there by the CIA to determine whether Iraq had tried to obtain uranium to use to make weapons of mass destruction.
Fitzgerald's investigation centers on whether a government official knowingly revealed the name of Wilson's wife, Valerie Plame, a covert CIA operative, to syndicated columnist Robert D. Novak. Intentional disclosure of such information by an official authorized to have it could be a felony.
The investigation began after Novak raised doubts in a July 14, 2003, column about Wilson's accusations that the administration was "twisting" intelligence, including his report that he found no proof of Iraq seeking uranium in Niger, to build a case for going to war in Iraq. Novak wrote that two officials had explained that Wilson was recommended for the mission by his wife.
Miller did reporting on the Plame story but never wrote about it.
Hogan said he was satisfied that Fitzgerald had exhausted other avenues of determining important information and that questioning journalists was a last resort rather than a "fishing expedition." He said journalists' promise to protect their sources is outweighed by the government's duty to investigate a serious crime. In a 1972 decision, the Supreme Court ruled that the First Amendment does not protect reporters called before a criminal grand jury.
"We have a classic confrontation between conflicting interests," Hogan said.
Hogan issued a contempt and confinement order to Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper in early August. [B]Cooper subsequently gave a deposition to prosecutors about his conversation with a single anonymous source -- I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney's chief of staff -- after Libby waived Cooper's obligation to keep their conversations on the topic confidential. But Fitzgerald later issued another subpoena to Cooper about information from other sources. [/B]
[B]Libby has also freed Miller to talk with prosecutors, according to a representative of the Times, but the newspaper is refusing to try to avoid a repeat of Cooper's circumstances, said Times attorney Floyd Abrams. [/B]
Fitzgerald has also questioned NBC's Tim Russert and two reporters at The Washington Post, Glenn Kessler and Walter Pincus. Novak and his attorney have declined to comment on whether he has been questioned or subpoenaed.
New York Times Executive Editor Bill Keller, who accompanied Miller to court, said he was disturbed that administration officials had been asked by their superiors in this case to sign waivers of confidentiality agreements with reporters.
"This is going to become all the rage in corporate and government circles," he said. "It's really spooky."
2005-07-15 14:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]XM,
You're welcome. I think this goes alot deeper than Rove. This mess goes all the way to the VP's office. Let's not forget there were two people shopping this story about Wilson. I bet the other guy that Fitzgerald is really after is Scooter Libby. See Raimondo's latest column. What he wrote fits these s.o.b.s perfectly.
Isn't that the truth. As far as I'm concerned, the Bush gang is nothing more than a continuation of the sleaze and smears we knew from the Clinton gang.[/QUOTE]
Sertorius:
I cant seem to get Raimondo's column--do you have a link? (I'm having a lousy day today with the medications---makes my brain mushola!)
On an interesting note---you are likely right about the "continuation" That has been my beef with politicians for years!
FF:taz:
2005-07-15 14:25 | User Profile
Weisbrot,
To be honest with you, I don't remember. I do believe, however, that all these folks are tied together via their Neocon views.