← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Sertorius
Thread ID: 19079 | Posts: 35 | Started: 2005-07-10
2005-07-10 17:33 | User Profile
FAITH FRONT Evil targets God's chosen :caiphas: By Dennis Prager, Dennis Prager's nationally syndicated radio show is heard daily in Los Angeles on KRLA-AM (870). He may be contacted through his website: [url]www.dennisprager.com[/url].
If the west understood the meaning of the Muslim terrorism against Israel and of contemporary Muslim anti-Semitism, it would be far better prepared to fight the sort of terrorism that struck London last week.
However, as almost always happens, too many dismiss anti-Semitism as the Jews' problem or even the Jews' fault, when in fact it is the most accurate predictor of an evil that humanity will have to fight.
That, to the world's benefit and the Jews' unhappy fate, is the role Jews play. That is the way it is because the Jews are the chosen people.
Now, believe me, I am well aware of the hazards of making such a claim.
First, it sounds racist.
Second, it sounds chauvinistic, as if it were a claim of inherent Jewish superiority.
Third, it sounds irrational, if not bizarre.
But the claim of Jewish chosenness could not be racist because a) The Jews are not a race. There are Jews of every race. And b) Any person of any race, ethnicity or nationality can become a member of the Jewish people and thereby be as chosen as Abraham, Moses, Jeremiah or the current chief rabbi of Israel.
As for chauvinism, there is not a hint of inherent superiority in the claim of Jewish chosenness. In fact, the Jewish Bible, the book that states the Jews are chosen, constantly berates the Jews for their flawed behavior. No holy work of any other religion is so critical of the religious group affiliated with that holy work.
As for the claim of chosenness being irrational or even bizarre, it is so only to an atheist. But anyone, even the atheist, must look at the evidence and conclude that the Jews play a role in history that defies reason.
Without the Jews, there would be no Christianity (a fact acknowledged by the great majority of Christians), no Islam (a fact acknowledged by few Muslims) and nothing that developed in those cultures that was based on belief in the God the Jews introduced to the world ââ¬â such as science and the abolition of slavery.
Other nations have perceived themselves as chosen or divinely special. China means "Middle Kingdom" in Chinese ââ¬â meaning that China is at the center of the world. Japan considers itself the land where the sun originates ("Land of the Rising Sun").
What's different about the Jews is that vast numbers of people outside the religion have believed the Jews' claim or hated the Jews for it.
But the greatest evidence for chosenness is the evil that has targeted Jews since the mid-20th century:
ââ¬Â¢ Nazi Germany :hitler: was more concerned with exterminating the Jews than with winning World War II. Whenever there was competition for resources between the war and the "final solution," Hitler chose the murder of Europe's Jews.
ââ¬Â¢ Throughout its 70-year history, the Soviet Union persecuted its Jews and tried to extinguish Judaism. At the time of Stalin's death, he was planning a massive killing of Soviet Jews.
ââ¬Â¢ The United Nations has spent more time discussing and condemning the Jewish state than any other country. That is why the U.N. General Assembly has passed an unparalleled 322 resolutions against Israel. Yet this state is smaller than every Central American country. Imagine if the amount of attention paid to Israel were paid to Belize ââ¬â who would not think there was something extraordinary about that country?
ââ¬Â¢ The Muslim world is obsessed with the Jews and with annihilating the one Jewish state, an obsession analogous to that of the Nazis.
In the words of Catholic scholar Father Edward Flannery, :alucard: "the Jews carry the burden of God in history." Most Jews do not believe this (or almost any Jewish religious doctrine, for that matter). And many Jews dislike talk of chosenness because they fear it will increase anti-Semitism. They may be right.
But it doesn't alter the fact that the worldwide obsession with one of the smallest countries and smallest peoples on Earth, and the unique hatred of the Jews and the Jewish state by the world's most vicious ideologies, can be best explained only in transcendent terms. God, for whatever reason, chose the Jews. [url]http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-op-faith10jul10,1,2570016.story?ctrack=1&cset=true[/url] ================== There! Now, you have it. Bow down to "Rabbi" Prager and his tribe. [QUOTE]Second, it sounds chauvinistic, as if it were a claim of inherent Jewish superiority.[/QUOTE] No, it sounds like typical Jewish Supremacism, to use AntiYuppie's term.
2005-07-10 17:53 | User Profile
322 resolutions against the Jews by the UN???????? AYYYYYYYY MAMA, I thought it was 78......I'll have to do some more reading about this.
How many UN madates (resolutions) has Iran broken? I have no idea but even if it is only five I know that the UN would be ready to march right in.
Why not into the state of Israel? number one = their nukes, and number two = the US.....can't think of any other reason.
There is more happening in this world that we don't know and one of them is the state of Israel blackmailing the US and the world from behind a closed door that "we" the common people don't know about.
2005-07-10 19:18 | User Profile
How can any confessed Christian make the definitively anti-Christian statement that Jews are God's chosen people?
2005-07-10 19:37 | User Profile
Zhids are children of Satan. That's the only acceptable definition from a Christian.
2005-07-10 19:42 | User Profile
Someone once quipped that modern Jews are still "God's chosen people" only in the same sense as Satan was once the most beautiful of all angels...
Petr
2005-07-10 19:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE]However, as almost always happens, too many dismiss anti-Semitism as the Jews' problem or even the Jews' fault, when in fact it is the most accurate predictor of an evil that humanity will have to fight.[/QUOTE]Oy vey. No greater evil exists then Anti-semitism. How about it Prager(pigger) when your great always noble people kill Palestinians(semites) and bulldoze their homes, and when you say things like 1000 arabs lives, or something to that effect, is not as important as a jewish fingernail, does that make them anti-semites? Is that an accurate predictor of an evil that "humanity" will have to fight?
[QUOTE] As for the claim of chosenness being irrational or even bizarre, it is so only to an atheist. But anyone, even the atheist, must look at the evidence and conclude that the Jews play a role in history that defies reason.[/QUOTE]LOL. can you get any more jewy then this. If you don't believe that the Jews are a chosen, special people you are either an atheist or you are evil.
This guy is a typical Jew in other ways, as well. I remember when he had a show on television, he always tried to come across as being very "conservative" and yet, at least once a week, the topic of his shows would have something to do with naked women or some similar subject. [QUOTE] But the greatest evidence for chosenness is the evil that has targeted Jews since the mid-20th century: [/QUOTE]Well of course this would have nothing to do with Jewish BEHAVIOR.No, it is all because of evil. And because they are often "targeted" that proves they are "chosen" This kike makes me want to vomit.:furious:
2005-07-10 20:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]Someone once quipped that modern Jews are still "God's chosen people" only in the same sense as Satan was once the most beautiful of all angels...[/QUOTE]
The Jews are never described as anything long the lines of beautiful. Just the opposite, in fact. And, what were they chosen for? To be damned by the Law?
The chosen state of the Hebrew people was to forshadow the chosen people, Christians. The only Hebrews to be saved were those justified by faith in God (a de facto acceptance of Christ because Jesus is God), just as it is now.
2005-07-10 21:59 | User Profile
As for the claim of chosenness being irrational or even bizarre, it is so only to an atheist. Nonsense. It's entirely possible to believe in God (or at least accept the possibility of a God) without believing in Jewish mythology. Look at Hindus -- they aren't atheists, but I doubt that they think of the Jews as "chosen."
But anyone, even the atheist, must look at the evidence and conclude that the Jews play a role in history that defies reason. I see nothing in Jewish history that needs the supernatural to explain it. Basically, all that's needed is the recognition that Jews are a very close-knit tribe who feel compelled to meddle in the business of other nations.
Can Jews be said to be unique in some respects? Probably. Does uniqueness imply some sort of supernatural value? Obviously not.
Without the Jews, there would be no Christianity (a fact acknowledged by the great majority of Christians), no Islam (a fact acknowledged by few Muslims)... True, but so what?
...and nothing that developed in those cultures that was based on belief in the God the Jews introduced to the world ââ¬â such as science and the abolition of slavery. Wha?!
Yeah, sure -- science would never have existed without the Jews and their mythology. :rolleyes: Tell that to the ancient Egyptians, among others:
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egypt#Timeline_of_Ancient_Achievements[/url]
And since when are Jews responsible for the abolition of slavery?! Their scriptures even condone it!
But it doesn't alter the fact that the worldwide obsession with one of the smallest countries and smallest peoples on Earth, and the unique hatred of the Jews and the Jewish state by the world's most vicious ideologies, can be best explained only in transcendent terms. God, for whatever reason, chose the Jews. Right now there's an even greater worldwide obsession with Al Qaeda. I guess Al Qaeda must have been chosen by God as well, eh? :rolleyes:
If hatred of the Jews is unique, it's because the Jews are uniquely hypocritical. If there's another group out there more consistent in practicing what its members so angrily preach against, then I'd like to know about it.
Prager is insane. I laugh at the haughty claims of the Jews to be "chosen by God." Maybe I'll write a book starring a god of my own creation, and of course he'll choose me and my offspring to dominate the world! LOL! Words are cheaper than dirt.
2005-07-10 22:22 | User Profile
The United Nations has spent more time discussing and condemning the Jewish state than any other country. That is why the U.N. General Assembly has passed an unparalleled 322 resolutions against Israel. Yet this state is smaller than every Central American country. Imagine if the amount of attention paid to Israel were paid to Belize ââ¬â who would not think there was something extraordinary about that country? Gee, I wonder if the fact that Israel has one of the largest and best-funded militaries in the world -- FAR out of proportion to its size -- and a highly belligerent nature has something to do with it? I wonder if Belize has nukes, just like Israel does? I wonder how much land Belize has stolen and continues to occupy?
Nah, the more logical explanation for the attention on Israel must be that Israel was "chosen by God." :lol:
2005-07-11 01:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Happy Hacker]How can any confessed Christian make the definitively anti-Christian statement that Jews are God's chosen people?[/QUOTE] Happy,
The only reason I posted this is that Limbaugh was knocked off the local station by a ballgame the day following the London bombings and Prager's boring show was the only thing on. He made it a point to hawk this article that appeared today to Christians. While I don't consider myself a Christian anymore, as a "hewer of wood and a hauler of water" I thought to see what this self appointed ruler over the rest of us had written. On his show Prager said alot of things I found to be interesting. One of them was his most loyal fans who understood and believed in the "choseness" was Christians. I figured y'all would beg to disagree with this. He also informed me of a Iman that was a Zionist. Most interesting of all, other than this b.s. column was a claim that "we" should have told the Palestinians that for every terrorist act the US would give Israel one F-16. He didn't add if it came with the bombs or not. I'd say based on the number of aircraft the IAF has that have been built and paid for by Americans that this has already been done- prior the Intifada.
You're right, of course, no self respecting Christian or Non-Christian would accept this line of reasoning (i.e., lies) from this Ziocon.
2005-07-11 01:37 | User Profile
[QUOTE]This guy is a typical Jew in other ways, as well. I remember when he had a show on television, he always tried to come across as being very "conservative" and yet, at least once a week, the topic of his shows would have something to do with naked women or some similar subject.[/QUOTE] Starr,
Ponce,
I was surprised at that number of UN resolutions as well. I thought it was 68. George Bush, defender of the UN, where are you?
2005-07-11 01:54 | User Profile
Well, he almost had it right.
Jews are the evil that humanity will have to fight.
2005-07-11 03:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius] Without the Jews, there would be no Christianity (a fact acknowledged by the great majority of Christians), no Islam (a fact acknowledged by few Muslims) and nothing that developed in those cultures that was based on belief in the God the Jews introduced to the world ââ¬â such as science and the abolition of slavery.[/QUOTE] Ok here's one, we all use Arabic numerals. Which is actually a bit of a misnomer because these numerals were invented by the Indians (Hindus), then brought to Persia. The Arabs of Persia then brought them to the rest of the world. Nothing to do with the Jews. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals[/url]
2005-07-11 04:15 | User Profile
I seem to recall it was abolitionists who were overwhelmingly Christian who agitated against slavery. If anything, I've heard claims that the first slaves brought to North America outside of Spain were by Jews.
2005-07-11 04:54 | User Profile
[IMG]http://www.dennisprager.com/images/DPNexttoBusLG.jpg[/IMG]
"Dennis Next to Suicide Bomber Bus 2" ===========
Too bad he wasn't on it.
2005-07-11 07:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Without the Jews, there would be no Christianity...[/QUOTE]
Wow, talk about prideful arrogance. At least that helps us understand the events in 70 A.D.
But then again, that statement of Prager's is quite similar to the papists' claim of there being no Christianity without the Catholic Church.
Any sincere believer would say "without God, there would be no Christianity." There's an eternity of difference in emphasis and understanding.
The jews only have a special history because of their infiltration, influence and antagonism of two thousand years within Western Christendom. No more, no less.
2005-07-11 13:09 | User Profile
T.D.,
One wishes that Vespasian and Titus (and later, Hadrian) had done a more thorough job along the lines of what Scipio Aemilianus Africanus did to Carthage. This column is a classic when it comes to sheer gall. Prager knows he can get away with it because of a gutless clergy who ought to raise hell over this.
2005-07-11 16:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Someone once quipped that modern Jews are still "God's chosen people" only in the same sense as Satan was once the most beautiful of all angels...[/QUOTE]That's a good reply, Petr.
2005-07-11 17:17 | User Profile
Chosen for what?
2005-07-11 20:53 | User Profile
Hugh,
Why, chosen for the following! [url]http://www.theisraelproject.org/testimony.html[/url] ================= FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: March 21, 2005 Contact: Jennifer Laszlo Mizrahi at [email]jlaszlo@aol.com[/email] or (202) 857-6644
As The Israel Project Celebrates its 3rd Anniversary Senators, Congressmen and Actor Join The Israel Project Board of Advisors to Increase Awareness and Education about Israel
Washington, DC -- The Israel Project (TIP) is proud to announce that six U.S. Senators, nine U.S. Congressmen and an actor/director have recently joined its Board of Advisors. The new Board includes Sen. Saxby Chambliss (GA); Sen. Norm Coleman (MN); Sen. Rick Santorum (PA); Sen. Ron Wyden (OR); Sen. Ben Nelson (NB); Sen. Arlen Specter (PA); Rep. Rob Andrews (NJ); Rep. Shelley Berkley (NV); Rep. Tom Davis (VA); Rep. Eliot Engel (NY); Rep. Frank Pallone (NJ); Rep. Jon Porter (NV); Rep. Jim Saxton (NJ); Rep. Brad Sherman (CA); Rep. Joe Wilson (SC); and actor and director Ron Silver.
TIP announced its new Board of Advisors just as the organization celebrates its third anniversary. The seeds for TIP were sown in March 2002 at the Jewish Funders Network (JFN) conference in Houston, Texas as several Jewish philanthropists huddled to discuss the need to strengthen Israelââ¬â¢s image in order to help protect Israel, reduce anti- Semitism and increase pride in Israel. TIP started as a project of other organizations but became an independent organization in 2005. Michael C. Gelman serves as chairman of the board of directors and Mort Zuckerman is vice chairman. Co-founder Jennifer Laszlo Mizrahi serves as TIP president.
Said TIP National Chairman Michael C. Gelman, ââ¬ÅWe feel very honored and proud that so many of our nationââ¬â¢s leaders have dedicated themselves to strengthening Israelââ¬â¢s image. We applaud our Board of Advisors for seeing the importance of educating Americans on the facts about Israel during such an important time in history.ââ¬Â Upon joining The Israel Projectââ¬â¢s Board of Advisors, Rep. Joe Wilson of South Carolina said, ââ¬ÅThe Israel Project has filled a critical void. Providing accurate, unaltered and factual information to the media to ensure balanced coverage of Israel not only benefits Israel but educates Americans as well. The Israel Project helps American citizens understand a very complicated part of the world -- places that are in desperate need of security and peace.ââ¬Â
Likewise, Rep. Eliot Engel of New York said he is ââ¬Åhonored to serve on The Israel Projectââ¬â¢s Board of Advisors. Itââ¬â¢s a worthy organization that does a tremendous public service. The Israel Projectââ¬â¢s work helps strengthen Israel, reduce anti-Semitism and increase pride in Israel.ââ¬Â
Rep. Jon Porter of Nevada said he joined the Board of Advisors because, ââ¬ÅIn this fast paced, 24/7 news environment, the media expects to be given sound bites, facts and visuals for every story they cover. I know that every group with a cause in America uses talking points, press kits and trained spokespeople. The Israel Project does that job in support of Israel like no one else. TIPââ¬â¢s team is talented, trusted and fills a vital need.ââ¬Â Rep. Brad Sherman of California said of The Israel Project, ââ¬ÅFrom the Congress, White House, State Department and editorial board rooms across Washington ââ¬â your television ads and direct mail campaign educated everyone on the real facts regarding the Middle East.ââ¬Â
TIP President and Founder Jennifer Laszlo Mizrahi said sheââ¬â¢s proud of how much the organization already has achieved. ââ¬ÅI could not be more pleased with the incredible strides that The Israel Project has made in the past three years,ââ¬Â Mrs. Laszlo Mizrahi said. ââ¬ÅWe know that our success and our continued work and efforts could not be possible without the support of our outstanding board of directors, supporters, funders, volunteers, staff and now our Board of Advisors. We are thankful for this and will continue our mission to provide the facts.ââ¬Â
The Israel Project is a national non-profit, non-partisan organization devoted to educating the press and the public about Israel while promoting security, freedom and peace. The Israel Project also provides journalists and leaders accurate information on Israel. For more information visit [url]www.theisraelproject.org[/url]
============= Chosen to "educate" we, the stupid goyim. See? You can learn alot form Zioncon radio! Prager, btw, stated his op-ed wasn't about "Jewish superiority." As a dumb Gentile, I have to wonder the purpose of the piece. I guess it was an excise of Jewish intellectual prowness.
All the information above came from listening to this "American", today.
2005-07-12 23:10 | User Profile
Neocons sure are sickening.
2005-07-13 00:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]Someone once quipped that modern Jews are still "God's chosen people" only in the same sense as Satan was once the most beautiful of all angels...[/QUOTE]
I wasn't going to reply to this, but I kept being bothered by it so I am compelled to reply.
The Hebrew people and the Jews are never described has anything remotely beautiful. They were a stiff-necked people whose burnt offerings were a stench to God.
When someone says "chosen people", what is meant by that? The Jews were chosen to be given the Law. And, by the Law, they were damned.
Christ is and has always been the only way to Heaven. The only Hebrews saved were those who put their faith in God and thus in Christ. The chosen people are and have always been the spiritual, not the physical, children of Abraham.
The Hebrew people were God's chosen people in that they were a physical demonstration of spritual truth, such as the concept of chosen people itself. God chose them to be the blood line of Jesus. God chose them to reveal scripture to. But, God did not choose them to be saved just because of their blood. God did not choose them to be the masters of Christians or of America.
2005-07-13 03:17 | User Profile
Happy? just because I say that I am God it does not mean that I am god.
2005-07-13 08:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hugh Lincoln]Chosen for what?[/QUOTE] Well...in practically every nation they've ever been to, they've been chosen to get the hell out.
2005-07-19 13:23 | User Profile
.....What happened to the rest of this thread?
2005-07-19 13:28 | User Profile
Moved. For lack of a better name for it, it is called "Petr and Paul" in this subforum. It was getting off the topic, which is the arrogance of Prager.
Y'all come up with a title you can agree on for the new thread and I'll change it.
2005-07-20 15:04 | User Profile
I've listened to Praegger before. He likes to twist things to suit himself, which isn't unusual. For example, the concept of being a Chosen People isn't Christian idea, but a Jewish one. However, Praegger makes this appear as if Christians are attacking Jews on this point. Jews consider themselves Chosen by God. They are the ones who are making the assertion, and any disagreement with this is almost anti-Semitic. By making the claim of Chosen, the Jews are in effect marginalizing all other groups to an inferior position. Thereby, justigfying any or all acts of brutality against them. Afterall, the Jews invented God of the Bible, and I guess it woudn't be unnatural for them not to place themselves at the center of His creation.
2005-07-20 15:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ron]Afterall, the Jews invented God of the Bible, and I guess it woudn't be unnatural for them not to place themselves at the center of His creation.[/QUOTE]
Correction, they didn't "invent God", they corrupted the revelation God gave them, just like they corrupt anything and everything. Besides that, the Jews aren't even mentioned in the Bible until the book of II Kings.
2005-07-22 11:45 | User Profile
townhall.com
The Left doesn't support the troops and should admit it Dennis Prager
July 12, 2005
Liberals, Democrats and others on the Left frequently state that they "support the troops." For most of them, whether they realize it or not, this is not true. They feel they must say this because the majority of Americans would find any other position unacceptable. Indeed, for most liberals, the thought that they really do not support the troops is unacceptable even to them.
Lest this argument be dismissed as an attack on leftist Americans' patriotism, let it be clear that leftists' patriotism is not the issue here. Their honesty is.
In order to understand this, we need to first have a working definition of the term "support the troops." Presumably it means that one supports what the troops are doing and rooting for them to succeed. What else could "support the troops" mean? If you say, for example, that you support the Yankees or the Dodgers, we assume it means you want them to win.
But most of the Left does not want the troops to win in Iraq. The Left's message is this: "You troops may think you are winning; you may think you are doing good and moral things in Iraq; you may believe you are fighting the worst human beings of our age and protecting us against the scourge of Islamic terror. But we on the Left believe none of that. We believe this war is being fought for oil and for Halliburton and other corporations; we believe you are waging a war that is both illegal and immoral; we believe you have invaded a country for no good reason and have killed a hundred thousand Iraqis [the Left's generally mentioned number] for no good reason; but, hey, we sure do support you."
Honest people on the Left need to understand that the two positions are not reconcilable. A German citizen during World War II could not have argued: "The Nazi regime's army is engaged in an evil war of aggression and is slaughtering millions of innocent people, and I therefore completely oppose this war, but I sure do support the Nazi troops."
One example is the claim made by Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry and almost all other Democrats and liberals that the war in Iraq is "the wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time." How does one support troops that are fighting a wrong war in the wrong place at the wrong time? A few leftist writers have been honest enough to say, "Nothing personal, guys, but I sure don't support you." But the vast majority of the Left and all Democratic politicians have not been honest on this matter.
A second example is the oft-repeated line, found on liberal bumper stickers, "War is not the answer." Aside from the idiocy of this claim -- war has solved slavery, ended the Holocaust, destroyed Japanese Fascism, preserved half the Korean peninsula from near-genocide, and saved Israel from extinction, among other noble achievements -- the claim offers no support to those who do engage in war.
How could one believe that "war is not the answer" and also claim to "support the troops," the very people waging what is "not the answer"? The answer is, by being dishonest.
A third example is the Left's opposition to military recruitment on most of the elite and many other college campuses. So deep is leftist disdain for troops that most on the Left regard the mere presence of military personnel on a university campus as a form of contamination. Yet, the Left claims to "support the troops."
Many on the Left express far more contempt than support for the troops.
A Democratic senator compares our interrogators to the Nazis and Communist torturers; the head of Amnesty International in America defends likening Guantanamo Bay to the Gulag; and liberals routinely speak of troops as coming from the lowest socio-economic rungs of society (maybe that's one reason they oppose recruiters on campuses, lest the best educated actually join the military). But, hey, the Left supports the troops.
An honest leftist would say: "Because I view this war as immoral, I cannot support our troops." What is not honest is their saying, "Support the troops -- bring them home." Supporting people who wish to fight entails supporting their fight; and if that fight is opposed, those waging it are also opposed.
Many on the Left angrily accuse the Right of disparaging their patriotism. That charge, too, is false. I have never heard a mainstream conservative impugn the patriotism of liberals. But as regards their attitude toward our troops, the patriotism of those on the Left is not the issue. The issue is their honesty.
é2005 Creators Syndicate, Inc. townhall.com [url]http://www.townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/dp20050712.shtml[/url] =========================== If anyone's honesty is in question here, it is Prager's and those like him. You know you are winning an argument with someone when he/she calls you a "Nazi", "antisemite", or "racist", terms that have lost all their original meaning due to abuse. When someone asks you in a sneering manner "do you support the troops?" when you are against a stupid war for Israel and oil it means you have won the argument, the expression is meaningless in the same way the other expressions are.
Prager futher shows his dishonesty by accusing all those against the war as being "leftists". This is nothing more than the sandwich smear, something that he and his fellow Neocons are legend for doing.
But most of the Left does not want the troops to win in Iraq. The Left's message is this: "You troops may think you are winning; you may think you are doing good and moral things in Iraq; you may believe you are fighting the worst human beings of our age and protecting us against the scourge of Islamic terror. But we on the Left believe none of that. We believe this war is being fought for oil and for Halliburton and other corporations; we believe you are waging a war that is both illegal and immoral; we believe you have invaded a country for no good reason and have killed a hundred thousand Iraqis [the Left's generally mentioned number] for no good reason; but, hey, we sure do support you."
You can make a hundred strawmen out of this mess. This isn't about the people sent over there save those who have committed abuses. It is about the corrupt, lying and treasonous "leadership" that placed them in this position. Prager and company are guilty of using the troops (and the flag too) as human shields to try to prevent folks from being able to close with them and show their dishonesty. Prager did leave out the elephant in the living room. He forgot to mention Israel as being the main reason for this, but we don't won't folks to think about that angle. Finally, we have this, which is so typical of Ziocons like Prager:
A German citizen during World War II could not have argued: "The Nazi regime's army is engaged in an evil war of aggression and is slaughtering millions of innocent people, and I therefore completely oppose this war, but I sure do support the Nazi troops."
It must be awful going through life where every morning you get up it is the eve of Kristalnacht.
2005-07-22 14:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE]A third example is the Left's opposition to military recruitment on most of the elite and many other college campuses. So deep is leftist disdain for troops that most on the Left regard the mere presence of military personnel on a university campus as a form of contamination. Yet, the Left claims to "support the troops."
Many on the Left express far more contempt than support for the troops. [/QUOTE] Sert:
That is about the only true statement he made, however he's still spinning like crazy, as that practice and attitude is as old as the Viet Nam era. It is not new to the current state of affairs. The rarity of "Northeast Elites" in uniform is about a generation old.
Most of the liberal rhetoric I hear remains as attacks and complaints on the administration, which is, as you point out, where the accountability lies. There have been a few slams on the Troops, one last month in the Boston Globe, but it's mostly aimed at leadership.
Except for the Gitmo and Abu Graib mess. That appears to be a free fire zone, in the liberal press, here, and elsewhere.
2005-07-22 15:14 | User Profile
The rarity of "Northeast Elites" in uniform is about a generation old.
I'd wager it's gone on far longer than that.
Paging edward gibbon!
2005-07-22 15:19 | User Profile
AE,
By Prager's definition, I don't "support the troops", even though I took a sheet of kevlar I had left over from a constuction job and gave it to a federalized guard unit getting ready to deploy over there. People like that need to have their asses kicked for their condescending, arrogant manner. The only thing this guy is concerned with is "Eretz Israel" and what the US can do to facilitate that.
I agree with you on that one statement. My solution to that problem is to deny federal funds to such institutions. A student can always tell a recruiter "no". I note too the lack of the northeastern "elite" swarming the recruiting stations. I still have yet to hear about Josh Chafetz and Benjamin Shapiro enlisting or for that matter, Bill Bennett's boy.
2005-07-22 15:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angeleyes]Sert:
That is about the only true statement he made, however he's still spinning like crazy, as that practice and attitude is as old as the Viet Nam era. It is not new to the current state of affairs. The rarity of "Northeast Elites" in uniform is about a generation old.
Most of the liberal rhetoric I hear remains as attacks and complaints on the administration, which is, as you point out, where the accountability lies. There have been a few slams on the Troops, one last month in the Boston Globe, but it's mostly aimed at leadership.
Except for the Gitmo and Abu Graib mess. That appears to be a free fire zone, in the liberal press, here, and elsewhere.[/QUOTE]
AE,
The Tribe was indifferent to the outcome of the Vietnam War. It is very much vested in Junior's Quagmire for Greater Zionism.
2005-07-23 00:46 | User Profile
Sert:
In 24 years, I met a few, very few, Jewish folks in uniform.
I find the villification of the recruiter, which has some justification for other reasons like some folks who forget about integrity in their quest to meet "goal," by the anti military folks an egregious form of censorship.
You are so right: the kid can always say "no thanks."
For what it's worth, not all of the recruits in the past five years have been people who I'd have tried to attract to the profession of arms. Back around the time of 9-11, some of us were a little tired of the "I't All About Me" crowd we seemed to be seeing in the newcomers.
shrugs Some get with the teamwork program, some don't, I imagine that is not a new problem.
[QUOTE=Sertorius]AE,
By Prager's definition, I don't "support the troops", even though I took a sheet of kevlar I had left over from a constuction job and gave it to a federalized guard unit getting ready to deploy over there. People like that need to have their asses kicked for their condescending, arrogant manner. The only thing this guy is concerned with is "Eretz Israel" and what the US can do to facilitate that.
I agree with you on that one statement. My solution to that problem is to deny federal funds to such institutions. A student can always tell a recruiter "no". I note too the lack of the northeastern "elite" swarming the recruiting stations. I still have yet to hear about Josh Chafetz and Benjamin Shapiro enlisting or for that matter, Bill Bennett's boy.[/QUOTE]
2005-07-23 00:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Howard Campbell, Jr.]AE,
The Tribe was indifferent to the outcome of the Vietnam War. It is very much vested in Junior's Quagmire for Greater Zionism.[/QUOTE] I don't know one way or the other about that. By 1961-63, the uniformed folks on the ground were telling anyone who'd listen that we were backing a losing nag at a horse race.
I do know that sympathizers with the Commies back in the 1960's had plenty of Jews in their midst, who made common cause with plenty of other Libs to drive the anti Military propaganda campaign.
There was plenty of rhetoric back then about Commies being in a better form of government than the "Evil Capitalism" . . . a lie that it took a long time to discredit for once and for all.