← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · robinder
Thread ID: 18916 | Posts: 36 | Started: 2005-06-30
2005-06-30 13:02 | User Profile
FOXBORO, Mass. - A team spokesman says he's been in touch with New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft by voice-mail and e-mail since Russia's president walked off with a 2005 Super Bowl ring.
But Stacey James says Kraft did not indicate if he's asked for his ring back. He also says Kraft hasn't cleared up whether the ring incident may have been a misunderstanding.
Kraft showed Putin the diamond-studded ring he got for the last Super Bowl win during a meeting of American businessmen. Then, Putin left the room with the ring. A Kremlin official calls its a gift, but that's not clear at this point.
James says Kraft will likely shed more light on the incident when he returns from his overseas trip sometime next week.
[url="http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=92074"]http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=92074[/url]
[img]http://www.moscowtimes.ru/photos/large/2005_06/2005_06_30/kraft_2.jpg[/img]
2005-06-30 13:34 | User Profile
The Neocons will be calling for war against Russia any day now, since Mr Kraft is probably one of those who claim that "foreigners hate our freedom and my team is the New England PATRIOTS, therefore Putin hates our freedom! I'm calling Bush!"
I hear the neocon press is saying the new president elect of Iran was responsible for the American hostage crisis in 1979.
2005-06-30 13:39 | User Profile
Maybe they'll send in a crack team of hobbit commandoes to recover the ring.
2005-06-30 13:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]I hear the neocon press is saying the new president elect of Iran was responsible for the American hostage crisis in 1979.[/QUOTE]Yes. They are even distributing so-called "photographic evidence" from 1979 that purports to show the Iranian president as a student activist among the Islamic radicals taking over the US embassy.
The Neocons will lie, cheat, and steal in order to advance their Israel-centric agenda. Remember the Niger uranium documents fraud? Let's hope the American people have learned a lesson or two since then.
2005-06-30 13:49 | User Profile
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[center][url]http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1674635,00.html[/url]
So they have eveything from Hitler's skull to a SuperBowl ring. [/center]
2005-06-30 13:52 | User Profile
If he took the ring, he believed it was a gift. Without evidence to the contrary, anyone who suggests otherwise is emulating an asshole, frankly.
2005-06-30 14:11 | User Profile
Do you really think he would give away his superbowl ring? :rolleyes:
2005-06-30 14:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle]Do you really think he would give away his superbowl ring? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE] There you go again Gabby. How was Putin supposed to know what significance a superbowl ring has? More than likely this was just a misunderstanding that happens in dealing with two different cultures and nothing more. Of course, the neocons will try to use this to bash Russia. Maybe their next move will be to rename Russian salad dressing to freedom dressing.
2005-06-30 14:33 | User Profile
And the Red Army Choir will become the Freedom Army Choir...
And soon we WOULD have heard jokes about how "In America, you win Super Bowl ring, in Soviet Russia, party has SUPER time WRINGING your hard earned rewards away from you."
But, the world is safe now. The man said they can keep it. Easier than stealing the A-Bomb.
2005-06-30 14:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=robinder]And the Red Army Choir will become the Freedom Army Choir...
And soon we WOULD have heard jokes about how "In America, you win Super Bowl ring, in Soviet Russia, party has SUPER time WRINGING your hard earned rewards away from you."
But, the world is safe now. The man said they can keep it. Easier than stealing the A-Bomb.[/QUOTE] Soviet Russia/Red Army??? A little behind the times are we?
2005-06-30 14:53 | User Profile
They're still called the Red Army Choir. And "In Soviet Russia..." jokes are timeless. Lighten up.
2005-06-30 15:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=robinder]They're still called the Red Army Choir. And "In Soviet Russia..." jokes are timeless. Lighten up.[/QUOTE] Sorry, I misunderstood your statement.
2005-06-30 15:02 | User Profile
Aight.
2005-06-30 17:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Maybe they'll send in a crack team of hobbit commandoes to recover the ring.[/QUOTE]Good one.
2005-06-30 19:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]There you go again Gabby. How was Putin supposed to know what significance a superbowl ring has? More than likely this was just a misunderstanding that happens in dealing with two different cultures and nothing more. Of course, the neocons will try to use this to bash Russia. Maybe their next move will be to rename Russian salad dressing to freedom dressing.[/QUOTE]
Oh Brian, wasnââ¬â¢t that the whole idea of showing Putin the ring? :cool:
Be forewarned do not trust Putin! :taz:
2005-06-30 19:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=robinder]Russiaââ¬â¢s business daily, Kommersant, owned by Mr Putinââ¬â¢s exiled rival Boris Berezovsky, said that Mr Kraft ââ¬Åshyly stuffed something intoââ¬Â Mr Putinââ¬â¢s hand.
ââ¬ÅPutin nodded and quickly looked around. But no, he didnââ¬â¢t see anybody watching. Then curiosity took hold over the President of Russia and he started to look at the present,ââ¬Â the newspaper added.
ââ¬ÅThere was a massive silver ring in his hands. Putin even carefully tried it on, but when he noticed that photo and video cameras were pointing at him, quickly took it off and held it in the fist.ââ¬Â
The New York Sun reported that Mr Kraft did not intend to give Mr Putin the ring and was trying quietly to retrieve it. ââ¬ÅNo one is accusing either Mr Putin or Mr Kraft of doing anything improper, but rather of being involved in a diamond-studded misunderstanding,ââ¬Â the newspaper said.
ââ¬ÅWhile Mr Kraft thought he was playing show-and-tell, Mr Putin apparently assumed, in error, that Mr Kraft . . . was offering a parting gift to the leader of the worldââ¬â¢s largest country.ââ¬Â [/QUOTE]Yeah, it sounds like an interesting misunderstanding. What was Mr. Kraft really trying to do himself? He sounds like a bit of an indian giver to me.:unsure:
People like Putin of course I'm sure receive gifts like this all the time. Usually people that do it aren't crass enough to want them back. It strikes me that Putin might think this guy was a fool, who not only tries to bribe a foreign leader but doesn't know how to do it properly.
After all they say there's an old saying in the international business community about the difference between an honest and dishonest foreign official. An honest official takes your bribe and does what you asked him to. A dishonest official takes your bribe and doesn't do what you asked him to :wink:
Perhaps Kraft in fact is privately disappointed at Putin's dishonesty, but doesn't feel comfortable in explaining why. :lol:
But seriously, that has been the big failure of privitization in Russia. Without a working system of law in the country, foreign and domestic tycoons just used their new found freedom to devour the country like a group of vultures devour a carcass, without putting anything back into Russia. And Putin has taken on the task and responsibility of trying to reform this system. Incidents like this humorous Super Bowl ring thing just show you the type of decision, and interpretation about other peoples motives and agenda's, he must have to make constantly. Give the man a break - he's got a lot more important and better things to steal than someone's internationally recognizable Super Bowl ring.
You can certainly tell the way this is being spun the way the American press and elites view Putin. You had to go to Berezovsky's old paper for crying out loud to get at least a halfway comprehensible account of what happened that doesn't seem to want to make Putin out like a kid stealing candy.
2005-06-30 19:38 | User Profile
By The Associated Press
BOSTON - New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft says he likes the way Vladimir Putin is quarterbacking Russia - and that's why he gave him his diamond-encrusted 2005 Super Bowl ring.
Kraft was among a group of U.S. business executives who met with the Russian president Saturday at Konstantinovsky Palace near St. Petersburg. Near the end of the meeting, Kraft took off the ring and handed it to Putin. Putin tried it on, put it in his pocket and left, according to Russian news reports.
"I showed the president my most recent Super Bowl ring," Kraft said in a statement Wednesday. The Russian president "was clearly taken with its uniqueness," Kraft said.
"At that point, I decided to give him the ring as a symbol of the respect and admiration that I have for the Russian people and the leadership of President Putin," Kraft said.
According to Patriots spokesman Stacey James, the ring - which is encrusted with 124 diamonds - has a value of "substantially more" than $15,000.
Before Kraft issued his statement, reports in the U.S. media - first by The New York Sun and then by The Boston Globe and The Associated Press - had questioned whether the Patriots owner had intended to give the ring to Putin as a present.
A senior Kremlin official, Dmitry Peskov, told The Associated Press that Putin had given the ring to the Kremlin library where other foreign gifts are kept.
Kraft's business interests include paper and packaging companies and venture capital investments. He handed out Super Bowl rings to players and coaches at his home two weeks ago.
[url]http://www.theworldlink.com/articles/2005/06/30/sports/sports11.txt[/url]
2005-06-30 20:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle] Before Kraft issued his statement, reports in the U.S. media - first by[B] The New York Sun[/B] and then by The Boston Globe and The Associated Press - had questioned whether the Patriots owner had intended to give the ring to Putin as a present.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about the Boston Globe, but if that paper is anything like the neocon-infested piece of ass-wipe rag The New York Sun, then I'm not surprised that they jumped the gun on the "ring incident" just to attack Jewish neocon enemy #1: Vladimir Putin.
2005-06-30 20:34 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle] Be forewarned do not trust Putin! :taz:[/QUOTE] I trust Putin much more than Bush; at least he's a rational leader who puts his country first. After urging people to vote for Bush, your credibility in knowing whom to trust and not trust is suspect.
2005-06-30 20:41 | User Profile
In Russia these days, the Communists aren't that bad. They are less communist than the Republicans, anyhow.
2005-06-30 20:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=robinder]In Russia these days, the Communists aren't that bad. They are less communist than the Republicans, anyhow.[/QUOTE] I agree. If you substitute worker's paradise or utopia in Bush's speeches in place of democracy, both communism and neoconservatism have the same agenda and tactics.
2005-06-30 21:30 | User Profile
I think is funny that Russia got rid of their tops Jews in their government and are now becoming more democratic and here in the US we are getting more Jews in the US government and are becomming more communist. :caiphas: oy vey
2005-06-30 21:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]I trust Putin much more than Bush; at least he's a rational leader who puts his country first. After urging people to vote for Bush, your credibility in knowing whom to trust and not trust is suspect.[/QUOTE]
Just remember my words, Brian.
2005-07-01 03:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle]Just remember my words, Brian.[/QUOTE] I remember your words last year when you were swooning over your boy, George W. I hate to tell you, but I told you so. As far as Putin goes, he is going to do what's in Russia's best interest. While that may not be good for Americans like you and me, he is in charge of Russia and is duty bound to further the interests of his people. If Bush were more like Putin, America might be on the road to recovery instead of sliding further and further into the third world.
2005-07-01 06:34 | User Profile
Considering that the story went from Putin stealing the ring, to Putin mistakenly took the ring but was allowed to keep it, to Putin was being offered the ring all along, it isn't outrageous to assume this was a bribe that went awry.
2005-07-01 11:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=robinder]Considering that the story went from Putin stealing the ring, to Putin mistakenly took the ring but was allowed to keep it, to Putin was being offered the ring all along, it isn't outrageous to assume this was a bribe that went awry.[/QUOTE]
LOL! Well said, robinder! You have a logical mind, sir. :smile:
2005-07-01 11:51 | User Profile
That is ma'am. Thanks though, but it seemed pretty obvious from the start that something unusual was happening with this ring incident. One can't help but appreciate its weirdness. We might never know what happened and why, but if this was a bribe, it would not be surprising.
2005-07-01 12:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=robinder]That is ma'am. Thanks though, but it seemed pretty obvious from the start that something unusual was happening with this ring incident. One can't help but appreciate its weirdness. We might never know what happened and why, but if this was a bribe, it would not be surprising.[/QUOTE]
Oh dear! I do apologize! :blush:
2005-07-01 13:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle]Oh dear! I do apologize! :blush:[/QUOTE] Just remember this Gabrielle. Putin is giving the Jewish businessmen who took advantage of Russia's weakness following the collapse of the Soviet Union a hard time. Most American media outlets and many influencial senators are from the same tribe. It seems pretty obvious to me that this is a case of sour grapes. Look at the hoopla surrounding the new president of Iran. The US has been in the business of proping up war criminals for almost a century now and yet we are so concerned that a former terrorist elevated to the presidency. Again, the powers that be have been eyeing Iran for decades and this just gives them a pretext to rile the American people up against that nation.
2005-07-01 15:26 | User Profile
Well,
He's got two other Superbowl rings...
_ [QUOTE=Gabrielle]Do you really think he would give away his superbowl ring? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
2005-07-01 15:30 | User Profile
I remember that "Bush Vs. Kerry" thread.... I got quite a few laughs from it. We even converted a former NeoCON in that thread.
:hitler:
_[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]I remember your words last year when you were swooning over your boy, George W. I hate to tell you, but I told you so. As far as Putin goes, he is going to do what's in Russia's best interest. While that may not be good for Americans like you and me, he is in charge of Russia and is duty bound to further the interests of his people. If Bush were more like Putin, America might be on the road to recovery instead of sliding further and further into the third world.[/QUOTE]
2005-07-01 16:54 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Jess David Peterson]Well,
He's got two other Superbowl rings...
_[/QUOTE]
It still doesn't make sense, TriRyche. :biggrin:
2005-07-01 16:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Jess David Peterson]I remember that "Bush Vs. Kerry" thread.... I got quite a few laughs from it. We even converted a former NeoCON in that thread.
:hitler:
_[/QUOTE]
I am glad you liked it, TriRyche. :wink:
2005-07-01 17:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]Just remember this Gabrielle. Putin is giving the Jewish businessmen who took advantage of Russia's weakness following the collapse of the Soviet Union a hard time. Most American media outlets and many influencial senators are from the same tribe. It seems pretty obvious to me that this is a case of sour grapes. Look at the hoopla surrounding the new president of Iran. The US has been in the business of proping up war criminals for almost a century now and yet we are so concerned that a former terrorist elevated to the presidency. Again, the powers that be have been eyeing Iran for decades and this just gives them a pretext to rile the American people up against that nation.[/QUOTE]
I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But I warn you, don't trust Putin.
2005-07-01 20:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle]I agree with a lot of what you are saying. But I warn you, don't trust Putin.[/QUOTE] Putin can be trusted to act in furtherance of Russian interests. That clarifies things.
Bush can be trusted to act in furtherance of Israeli interests. More clarity.
2005-07-02 16:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=SteamshipTime]Putin can be trusted to act in furtherance of Russian interests. That clarifies things.
Bush can be trusted to act in furtherance of Israeli interests. More clarity.[/QUOTE] And the guy who is President in Iran can be trusted to look after his, his party's and his countries interests, in that order.
Was he one of the guys who held our folks hostage? Maybe, maybe not. Since we seem to find a way to work with Jerry Adams in Ireland, and Iran starts with an I, I suppose we could, if the political "leadership" had a clue, find a way to work with this guy. Let's see, we found ways to work, at various times, with Stalin, Noriega, Saddam, Pinochet . . . it can be done.
For Xmetal: [QUOTE]I don't know about the Boston Globe, but if that paper is anything like the neocon-infested piece of ass-wipe rag The New York Sun, then I'm not surprised that they jumped the gun on the "ring incident" just to attack Jewish neocon enemy #1: Vladimir Putin.[/QUOTE] The Boston Globe is a piece of Bleeding Heart liberal fishwrapper. At least you can make a hat out of it, as Curious George does in his book. :cowboy: .