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Thread ID: 18825 | Posts: 22 | Started: 2005-06-25
2005-06-25 02:55 | User Profile
Former Asst. Sec. Of Treasury Under Reagan Doubts Official 9/11 Story Claims Neo Con Agenda Is As 'Insane As Hitler And Nazi Party When They Invaded Russia In Dead Of Winter'
Greg Szymanski | June 24 2005
A former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Reagan stepped back into the political spotlight this week, expressing doubt about the official 9/11 story and claiming "if they lied to us about Ruby Ridge, Waco and weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, why should we believe them now."
Paul Craig Roberts, listed by Whoââ¬â¢s Who in America as one of the 1,000 most influential political thinkers in the world, has evolved over the years into a major Bush basher as well as neo con critic. Roberts said he hasnââ¬â¢t changed his political ideology or jumped from the Republican-conservative ship but "just canââ¬â¢t respect a party leadership who doesnââ¬â¢t respect the truth."
He is another in the long list of "Republican faithful," including top-ranking government and military officials who have left or been pushed out Washington, since Bushââ¬â¢s neo con followers continue demonstrating a lack of desire and patience to compromise even with conservatives refusing "to toe the neo con line."
Expressing doubt about the governmentââ¬â¢s official version of 9/11but deferring detailed criticism to the experts, Roberts concerns come on the heels of recent criticism leveled by Morgan Reynolds, a former chief economist in the Bush I administration.
Reynolds is the highest-ranking public official so far to step forward and criticize the government account of 9/11, calling the government story "bogus" and saying the WTC most likely fell from a controlled demolition.
Saying 9/11 is only a part of a mysterious but deadly neo- con puzzle, Roberts looked back at history for some answers
"They (neo cons) are making such fatalistic mistakes and are about as insane as Hitler and the Nazi Party when they invaded Russia in the dead of the winter," said Roberts who now, as a hobby, syndicates a national newspaper column, adding to his long and impressive list of academic, journalistic and political credentials.
Serving under President Reagan in 1981-82, Treasury Secretary Regan credited him with having a major role in the Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981. He was then awarded the Treasury Departmentââ¬â¢s Meritorious Service Award for "his outstanding contributions to the formulation of United States economic policy."
Roberts is given much of the credit for structuring and drafting a major portion of the famous Kemp-Roth bill as well as having a leading role in developing bipartisan support for a supply-side economic policy. In 1987, the French government recognized him as "the artisan of a renewal in economic science and policy after half a century of state interventionism," inducted him into the Legion of Honor.
Even with his impressive background, Roberts, once a former columnist for Business Week and a thorn in the side of liberals back then, said "the times have drastically changed," adding his views are no longer welcome in the mainstream media if they are critical of Bush or any of his policies.
" Itââ¬â¢s like the Nazis removing dissent without using the Gestapo," said Roberts, whose articles are circulated widely on the Internet and appear regularly in the American Free Press, an alternative publication. "Most publications, like the Washington Times, for example, will not print anything critical of Bush, his strategies and, definitely, anything seriously opposing the war is off base."
Although professing to know "a little about engineering" from his undergraduate days at Georgia Tech, Roberts deferred formulating any serious conclusions about the fall of the WTC, but expressed doubt as to the credibility of the entire official version based on past government lies uncovered at Waco, Ruby Ridge and the threat of WMD in Iraq.
Roberts said the recent statements made by Reynolds, however, reveals just how flimsy and unbelievable the government story comes across.
"This is not some kind of conspiracy nut or kook talking. He is a man with extremely qualified credentials, whose opinions I respect," said Roberts referring to Reynoldsââ¬â¢ comments which have been highly publicized across the country.
"The real story is not Morgan Reynolds or myself, but why have so many former Republican conservatives and top ranking officials who disagree with the neo cons been systematically run out of Washington? And, also, why is the media so intent on covering up the Bush-neo con agenda and all the mistakes surrounding it?
"I guess the real story about 9/11 is about what the people are actually saying. Iââ¬â¢ve gotten hundreds of emails in response to my columns and many of them talk about not getting the truth from the government or the media about what really happened at the World Trade Center. I know many qualified engineers and scientists have said the WTC collapsed from explosives. In fact, if you look at the manner in which it fell, you have to give their conclusions credibility."
Besides 9/11 and blasting the neo con economic agenda as suicide for America, Roberts in his latest column seriously attacks the Bush Iraq war policy. Without mincing words, he wrote:
" The reasons they (the American people) were given by their president, vice president, secretary of defense, national security adviser, secretary of state, and the sycophantic media were nothing but a pack of lies."
Accusing Bush of also lying to the American people in his recent June 18 radio address, he added:
"Bush again lied to the American people when he told them that the U.S. was forced into invading Iraq because of the Sept. 11 attack on the WTC.
"Bush, the greatest disgrace that America has ever had to suffer, actually repeated at this late date the monstrous lie for which he is infamous throughout the world: ââ¬ËWe went to war because we were attacked, and we are at war today because there are still people out there who want to harm our country and hurt our citizens.ââ¬â¢"
Robertsââ¬â¢ other impressive credentials include being awarded a John M. Olin Fellow at the Institute for Political Economy, a Senior Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution, Stanford University, and Research Fellow at the Independent Institute.
In 1992, he received the Warren Brookes Award for Excellence in Journalism and, a year later, the Forbes Media Guide ranked him as one of the top seven journalists in the country. He was also Distinguished Fellow at the Cato Institute from 1993 to 1996 while also from 1982 through 1993, holding the William E. Simon Chair in Political Economy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.
:osama:
For more informative articles, go to [url]www.arcticbeacon.com[/url] where kind donations are accepted to keep the truth flowing in the wake of media apathy.
2005-06-25 03:01 | User Profile
I definitely like Roberts. He's one of the good guys.
Regarding the above poll, I cannot answer because I'm just not sure. I guess my answer is "I don't know." I do know that the civilian and military leadership of the US government are complete liars who cannot be trusted, but that isn't enough to make me accept an alternative explanation about what happened on 9/11. I have to remain agnostic on that issue.
I do have a hypothesis about what might have led to the hijackings in the first place. I wonder if Israeli agents posing as Islamic militants infiltrated Al Qaeda, worked their way up the organizational ladder, proposed a plan to attack the US, and then recruited other militants to execute the plot. This is all speculation, but I do think it's a plausible hypothesis in light of our knowledge of Mossad practices (especially their success at infiltrating Arab groups), past false flag operations by Israel, and the near-certainty that the Israelis knew about the attacks in advance (remember the five cheering Israelis seen filming the attack?).
2005-06-25 03:16 | User Profile
A good article, but one point of order;
[QUOTE]"They (neo cons) are making such fatalistic mistakes and are about as insane as Hitler and the Nazi Party when they invaded Russia in the dead of the winter,[/QUOTE]"
For the record, The Germans invaded Russia in the end of June. The fact that they wasted about a month or better helping Mussolini, who was getting his butt kicked in the Balkans, came back to bite them in the arse when they found themselves at the gates of Moscow at the onset of winter.
2005-06-25 09:35 | User Profile
Paul Craig Roberts is coming so close to being a nationally heroic figure, one in inclined to fear he'll come down with a sudden, virulent case of intestinal cancer....
2005-06-25 13:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angler]I definitely like Roberts. He's one of the good guys.
Regarding the above poll, I cannot answer because I'm just not sure. I guess my answer is "I don't know." I do know that the civilian and military leadership of the US government are complete liars who cannot be trusted, but that isn't enough to make me accept an alternative explanation about what happened on 9/11. I have to remain agnostic on that issue.[/QUOTE]I agree Angler. Some Qs I have:
How did these numbnuts go from flying Cessna's and a DC-8 simulator to precision flying at high speeds of jumbo jets?
How did Atta's passport manage to flutter to the ground after the conflagration?
Prior to 9/11, two rap albums had jackets that depicted airborne attacks on the WTC; actor James Woods reported what appeared to be a "dress rehearsal" to the FBI; a Palestinian immigrant in a NY borough pointed to the WTC and told his teacher, "they won't be there next week." If they all knew, why didn't the CIA and FBI know?
The hijackers used a bank account that apparently held money to finance the operation. With all the money laundering laws & regs, why can't they trace back to the financiers? Was this plot really pulled off by just 19 men, all of whom died in the planes they commandeered? Who told them that an attack at the top third of the buildings would collapse the whole towers?
Who is responsible for the anthrax attacks, and why don't we know by now given that the substance used is one of the most highly controlled on earth, we know where it came from, and we know the exact vectors of transmission?
2005-06-25 13:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=SteamshipTime]I agree Angler. Some Qs I have:[/QUOTE] All good questions, ST. There are also some serious questions about whether a localized fire (even one burning that hotly) could bring down the whole tower. In fact, the WTC was built specifically to withstand an airplane collision, from what I understand.
2005-06-25 14:20 | User Profile
Project for a New American Century, written back in the mid 90's by powerful men who came into high governmental positions with the presidency of George W Bush, plainly stated that their "project" couldn't get off the ground or "sold" to the American people without some "catastrophic event", a "new Pearl Harbor" to whip up support. [I]Et voila![/I] 9/11 happened and Arabs were the ones who did it!!! Amazing coincidence!
Well, the infamous FDR said "there are no coincidences in politics", and on that note, I let it rest.
2005-06-25 15:45 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Project for a New American Century, written back in the mid 90's by powerful men who came into high governmental positions with the presidency of George W Bush, plainly stated that their "project" couldn't get off the ground or "sold" to the American people without some "catastrophic event", a "new Pearl Harbor" to whip up support. [/QUOTE] That came from their "Rebuilding America's Defenses" paper released September 2000, here:
[url]http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf[/url]
at top left of p. 51 of the report (p. 63 of the PDF file).
2005-06-25 15:58 | User Profile
Gentlemen:
I suggest that you stop asking one another questions and review the literature. I read two books on the topic, each coming from a very different direction, but both relying almoist exclusively on reports from the mainstream media that surfaced briefly but were than quashed and stuffed down the memory hole. One -- [URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1893302474/qid=1119714793/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-0959637-2549429?v=glance&s=books]Stranger than Fiction[/URL] -- has a decidedly anti-Zionist flavor and tends to highlight the facts suggesting a false-flag operation involving the Mossad. (It includes accounts of prior Israeli false-flag operations.) The other -- [URL=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1566565529/qid=1119714924/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/103-0959637-2549429?v=glance&s=books&n=507846]A New Pearl Harbor[/URL] -- possesses a title that alludes obviously to the PNAC paper, but beyond that never so much as mentions Israel. Together they paint a very interesting picture.
2005-06-25 18:19 | User Profile
According to what I haver read on this the so called "terrorists" did the following.......
1- They were working on this for a year and yet they had to rent a car in order to get to the airport.
2- They left a bunch of books about flying in the car.
3- They started a fight at the parking lot of the airport.
4- They stayed at a motel room just before 9/11 and when they left they left behind more books about flying a plane.
5- They went to a bar the night before where they got "drunk" started a fight and "left" a Koran behind.
6- The only passport to "survive" the Twin Towers, and almost like new, was the one belonging to one of the "terrorists".
7- Six of the so called "terrorists" are still alive and doing well.
8- The pictures of the security camera taken at the airport do not agree with the place and time where the "terrorists" were at.
But the one that really gets me is the one at the Pentagon, how can such a big plane fit in a 8X16 hole in the wall and leave nothing behind?
There is a LOT MORE but why go on?
2005-06-25 22:49 | User Profile
Two points.
One, what a load of "Americo Centric" navel gazing.
What is it, guys, no one but Americans have a dream or a vision of what the world should look like? How about you all check a whole Three plus decades of air piracy, starting with "take this plane to Cuba" to Entebbe to Achille Lauro to all sorts of other scenarios where terrorists (of a variety of factions) used the high profile airliner as a tool to USE THE PRESS TO GET THEIR MESSAGE ACROSS. Damnit, are you all [u]****ing clueless[/u] on how old Information Warfare is? I wonder, since the point of how the media is controlled by certain factions is a common currency by the population who posts here.
Open Your ****ing Eyes. :angry:
This has been going on since the late 1960's, the use of airplanes as a tool to get the world media to focus on XXX cause. If I could figure that shit out when I was about 19, why can't the adults who post here understand how long this has been a tool available to any old asshole with a cause, or anyone using that asshole for their cause. (Zionitst, Arab, Cuban, Communist, Lebanese . . . pick your agenda. It is the primordial use of "Shock and Awe.")
Jesus wept. [u]It isn't all about us![/u] (By us I mean "America.") There are about 5+ billion other people who may have a variety of attitudes.
OK. Rant over.
Two.
ST makes some excellent inquiries. I owe him at least one beer. :) :)
[QUOTE]1. How did these numbnuts go from flying Cessna's and a DC-8 simulator to precision flying at high speeds of jumbo jets?[/QUOTE]Easy. A DC-8 is a good enough simulator for flying most any "Heavy." The "high speeds" of jumbo jets? You just did me injury, sir, I cracked a rib laughing.
[QUOTE] 2. How did Atta's passport manage to flutter to the ground after the conflagration? [/QUOTE]Good question. [QUOTE]3. Prior to 9/11, two rap albums had jackets that depicted airborne attacks on the WTC; actor James Woods reported what appeared to be a "dress rehearsal" to the FBI; a Palestinian immigrant in a NY borough pointed to the WTC and told his teacher, "they won't be there next week." If they all knew, why didn't the CIA and FBI know?[/QUOTE]Interesting question. I'd like to know the answer to that. [QUOTE]4. The hijackers used a bank account that apparently held money to finance the operation. With all the money laundering laws & regs, why can't they trace back to the financiers? Was this plot really pulled off by just 19 men, all of whom died in the planes they commandeered? Who told them that an attack at the top third of the buildings would collapse the whole towers?[/QUOTE]Even better question! What constraints have we put on the CIA and others on how they collect on foreign interests. (Domestic issues are a whole different kettle of fish.)
- Who is responsible for the anthrax attacks, and why don't we know by now given that the substance used is one of the most highly controlled on earth, we know where it came from, and we know the exact vectors of transmission?[/QUOTE]Even better question! :smartass: My mail, damnit.
PS: mwdallas, thank you for the links. :thumbsup:
2005-06-26 03:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Blond Knight]A good article, but one point of order;
For the record, The Germans invaded Russia in the end of June. The fact that they wasted about a month or better helping Mussolini, who was getting his butt kicked in the Balkans, came back to bite them in the arse when they found themselves at the gates of Moscow at the onset of winter.[/QUOTE]
True to some extent, Blond Knight, and Roberts was only using the comment during an interview where things can shoot off the hip.. As an anology, it still has relevance. Roberts was probably thinking of Napoleon and Hitler at the same time. It's fact that the harsh Russian winter did more to harm Napoleon's army than Hitler's, for obvious reasons. Even if it wasn't winter, Germany would have lost in Russia. But Napoleon's Empire would have been victorious had it not been winter. Now we live in a world where weather has no impact at all.. Also, Hitler should thank Mussolini that he was even there. Without Fascist Italy, he had no band aid on the southern flank. Even though the Italians fought half heartedly, the command was still there. Without Italy on Germany's side, things would have ended sooner.
2005-06-26 11:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE=SteamshipTime]Was this plot really pulled off by just 19 men, all of whom died in the planes they commandeered? Who told them that an attack at the top third of the buildings would collapse the whole towers?
For the record, Al-Qaeda released a videotape (we are told), which was shown on network television, supposely portraying bin-Laden's reaction to radio reports on 9/11/01. According to the tape, bin-Laden claims to be surprised the towers came down, and only expected those floors of the towers to collapse which were located above where the respective planes impacted each tower.
I've heard reports that several of the alleged 19 hijackers are alive and well in Saudi Arabia....
[QUOTE=SteamshipTime]5. Who is responsible for the anthrax attacks, and why don't we know by now given that the substance used is one of the most highly controlled on earth, we know where it came from, and we know the exact vectors of transmission?[/QUOTE]
I regard it as a simple matter of public record that Lt. Col. Richard Zack, a Jewish ultra-Zionist who worked with that particular strain of anthrax in our bioweapons research facility in Ft. Detrick, Maryland, is the culprit. It seems the FBI concurs with this view, but has been ordered not to arrest the murderous traitor. Being a charter subscriber to The Weaklings Substandard offers more privileges than one would have initially surmised, apparently....
2005-06-26 11:45 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]Project for a New American Century, written back in the mid 90's by powerful men who came into high governmental positions with the presidency of George W Bush, plainly stated that their "project" couldn't get off the ground or "sold" to the American people without some "catastrophic event", a "new Pearl Harbor" to whip up support. [I]Et voila![/I] 9/11 happened and Arabs were the ones who did it!!! Amazing coincidence[/QUOTE]
I believe the principal author was Dep. Def. Sec. Paul Wolfowitz, i.e. the real Defense Secretary, who merely lets Rumsfeld do the press conferences and congressional hearings for him, I tend to believe.
2005-06-26 13:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]I believe the principal author was Dep. Def. Sec. Paul Wolfowitz, i.e. the real Defense Secretary, who merely lets Rumsfeld do the press conferences and congressional hearings for him, I tend to believe.[/QUOTE]
Kevin, I hear ya. Another thing to note, is that essentially, some of the main architects of 9/11 and the Iraq War have slowly been moving on and leaving the absolute disastrous mess of their "war on terror" to be mopped up by the goy frontmen. Wolfowitz, Perle, and Feith have resigned their positions in the US government leaving Rumsfeld and Bush to take all the heat over Iraq.
2005-06-26 13:36 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]Another thing to note, is that essentially, some of the main architects of 9/11 and the Iraq War have slowly been moving on and leaving the absolute disastrous mess of their "war on terror" to be mopped up by the goy frontmen. Wolfowitz, Perle, and Feith have resigned their positions in the US government leaving Rumsfeld and Bush to take all the heat over Iraq.[/QUOTE]
I'd forgotten that Wolfowitz now wants to be President of the World Bank; I hadn't realized he'd already tendered his resignation. Any word on his replacement? Feith is safely out of the reach of extraditon, home in Israel. I know Perle resigned from the chairmanship of the Defense Policy Board, due to a profiteering scandal a year or two back. Has he now resigned his general membership from the DPB?
2005-06-28 21:58 | User Profile
Illuminatis are the products of overfertile imaginations, but many facts on this video are robust.
2005-06-29 02:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE]
I do have a hypothesis about what might have led to the hijackings in the first place. I wonder if Israeli agents posing as Islamic militants infiltrated Al Qaeda, worked their way up the organizational ladder, proposed a plan to attack the US, and then recruited other militants to execute the plot. This is all speculation, but I do think it's a plausible hypothesis in light of our knowledge of Mossad practices (especially their success at infiltrating Arab groups), past false flag operations by Israel, and the near-certainty that the Israelis knew about the attacks in advance (remember the five cheering Israelis seen filming the attack?).
[/QUOTE]Yes, this is similar to what I think happened, as well. The only area that is slightly different is that I definetely believe there was already a plot to attack the U.S, when the Mossad agents infiltrated this "terrorist" organization, though the plan was for something on a much smaller scale,(something like another Oklahoma city type of thing, possibly) and the Mossad agents were the ones who "convinced" the terrorists to go with this much more spectacular attack, and also provided them with things that would be needed to ensure its success. One that would guarantee the results they wanted.
2005-06-29 02:56 | User Profile
Bush keeps on saying that we are at war against Iraq because of the "terrorist" attack on 9/11 but he won't say who are the ones responssible for the attack.....the terrorist Islamic from the Middle East, sure, but from where in the Middle East? the state of Israel IS in the Middle East.
The Saudis? seven of those "TERRORIST" are alive and drinking their coffee.
Sorry guys that terrorist attack was iniciated withing the US intelligencial community with the help of the Jews. :furious: <----one angry Cuban.
2005-06-29 03:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE]
Bush keeps on saying that we are at war against Iraq because of the "terrorist" attack on 9/11 but he won't say who are the ones responssible for the attack.....the terrorist Islamic from the Middle East, sure, but from where in the Middle East? the state of Israel IS in the Middle East.
[/QUOTE]yeah, we are to believe that 15 of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, yet because of 9/11 we go after Afganistan(the taliban is harboring Osama bin laden, who still hasn't been found, and rarely even gets mentioned anymore) and Iraq(the WMDs that did not exist.lol) even the average flag-waving american "patriot" moron has to wonder about such things.
Old George w. certainly like to play up on 9/11 doesn't he. I wonder if he has ever given a press conference since, where he doesn't mention at least 5 million times, september 11th and the evildoers. LOL.
2005-06-29 03:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ponce]Sorry guys that terrorist attack was iniciated withing the US intelligencial community with the help of the Jews. :furious: <----one angry Cuban.[/QUOTE]
I'm inclined to agree; "our" government was the primary actor behind 9/11, with Mossad giving an assist. Bin-Laden probably knows we believe we were using him, but believes in the long run it is the CIA/Mossad axis that was being used by him i.e., his allowing Al-Qaeda to be a pawn of Western intelligence services will serve his own interests; the bringing about of a nationalist regime in the USA, one which will have no interest in providing financial, military, or diplomatic support for Zionism. And he's probably correct, as neo-con fantasizing seems unlikely to win in the long run. It also stands to reason he'd want to keep mum about all this, at least for the time being, in order to retain his credibility on the so-called Arab street.
2005-06-29 07:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE]
The Saudis? seven of those "TERRORIST" are alive and drinking their coffee.
[/QUOTE]I did believe this for a while, probably because it makes for an interesting piece to the puzzle, but is this more then just a rumor? I know this was a story that was reported on many different news sources, including ABC, and the BBC, but I am not quite sure. They couldn't even seem to agree on the number, some places it was reported as 7, as you say, and other places it was either 2 or 3 of the hijackers who were supposedly alive. Whereas, with the story of the "dancing israelis" with the boxcutters for instance, there are actual records of their arrests,etc.