← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Rhynome
Thread ID: 18740 | Posts: 21 | Started: 2005-06-19
2005-06-19 22:36 | User Profile
I am attempting to abide by forum rules here and not hi-jack a thread or start a new thread in a sub-forum that may be of little relivance. I am new to these forums and so shall post in a 'new to these forums' thread.
Now I know you are not all anti-semetic though the question I have to ask to those of you who are is 'why'? I myself am Jewish, So where my paternal forbearers, my great-grandfather came from Europe somewhere, he spoke an assortment of languages it seems, Polish, German, Yiddish, etc. My grand-father was born into poverty, he joined the British Army, as he was British and war was looming, he worked his way up to Staff Sergeant (A high ranking sergeant) and was posted to Borneo. Captures by the Japanese in '42 he spent the rest of the war (until '45) trapped inside a 'POW' camp and the only times he ever got out was either to see one of his men executed for no reason or to be forced to build rail-ways. He came back a broken man, blind, drunk, a heavy smoker, spent all his money on booze and betting. His son (my father) was born into a home with 3 or more other families, the street had to share a washroom, families lived in the kitchen, etc. These weren't all Jewish, just that family. My father wanted to get out of that shit-hole, he grafted and is now an accountant, he refuses to rip people off, and often does not charge people for jobs that have to be done. He has done nothing to society but contribute. Despite his being an accountant he is socialist, despite me being close to upper class/privileged I am demi-socialist. My belief is that everyone should have equal opportunity in life.
Now I sit here, catholic mother, jewish father, jewish self. I do not like Israel, I like the Arabs less but I do not like the policies of the current israeli government. I don't like them but I understand they have to take these actions, but also they give Palestinians free universities, free healthcare, they let them have a footing in life. Oh what oppression the arabs face at the hands of the 'Jews'. I am held accountable for Israel's actions, I've never even been to Israel, I don't intend to. I'm a Brit first, a Jew second.
So what I need to understand is why, after my upbringing, one that promotes peace, where I was told as a child that even though I may not like someone the Torah (or atleast someone's interpretation) says "Do not harm your fellow human." And "Everyone is born equal." If everyone is born equal they have a right to be equal. The only reason that 'Jews control the media.' Is because they're willing to get up off their arses and actually make a life for them and their children, you resent your own inadequacies and place the blame on us, on me. I have never done anything against you but you blame me for the IDF's reaction to a MacDonalds full of children being bombed, there was a birthday party and someone bombed it. It is a cowardly attack and one that you inadvertantly defend. If I must be held responsible for your views on Israel why can't you get your views of Judaism off someone like me or better, my for-bearers. Someone who will fight to defend the innocent, by being in Borneo that man was saving your grandparents from being torn apart by a bayonet. Why can't you take your example from someone who will be violent when he must be but under most circumstances wants to be peaceful?
Judaism preaches peace, it is your minds that see violence. All I want is an answer, why are you anti-semetic?
2005-06-19 22:41 | User Profile
Rhynome Smells and takes things waaaaaaaaay too seriously.
2005-06-20 01:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Rhynome] Now I know you are not all anti-semetic though the question I have to ask to those of you who are is 'why'? I myself am Jewish, ...[/QUOTE]
The functional definition of anti-semitism is any direct or implied criticism of Jews or Jewish groups by either non-Jews or Jews themselves. What we have here is the bizarre situation, in this fractious world, where one group claims exemption from criticism; yet this same group never hesitates to level their own criticisms at others. Jews have managed to make criticism of themselves illegal in Europe and they would like to do the same here, and their first line of attack implementing this agenda is to make a big deal out of anti-Semitism, i.e. criticism of themselves, just like you are doing here. Imagine what the world would be like if white people visciously attacked anyone who dared criticise them? You would have a different opinion about that, now wouldn't you? :dry:
2005-06-20 02:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Rhynome]I am attempting to abide by forum rules here and not hi-jack a thread or start a new thread in a sub-forum that may be of little relivance. I am new to these forums and so shall post in a 'new to these forums' thread... Judaism preaches peace, it is your minds that see violence. All I want is an answer, why are you anti-semetic?[/QUOTE] Rhynome,
Let's define our terms first. Racism (e.g, anti-semitism as thus defined) is the belief that race is destiny. I do not subscribe to this view, as I know blacks, Jews and Hispanics that buck the stereotype of Marxist, net-tax consuming, and anti-West generally attributable to these racial/cultural groups.
I plead guilty to racial profiling. Jews in my experience are generally cultural Marxists, socialists, and intent on promoting the interests of the nation-state of Israel above all others, even at the expense of the nation-states where they are citizens. I could go through another litany on other races.
2005-06-20 02:32 | User Profile
"Profiling" in other areas is not controversial at all: if you are defrauded in a business transaction you won't go back again. And once you accumulate any meaningful statistics what kind of businesses are more likely to cheat, you are free to discriminate (and any sane person will). They push the view that profiled groups are victims and totally overlook the fact that the other extreme -- ignoring the group characteristics -- makes the majority a victim. Essentially what's been going for the last few decades is victimization of better, more productive and superior part of the population who built this country and ever-growinig appeasement of useless riff-raff.
2005-06-20 08:00 | User Profile
Up until now I have not once openly criticised anti-semtism. I understand that it is not just Jews, it's semites, anyone from (the mainly western part of) the Middle East. But it has become to mean 'anti-Jew'.
You say I make a big deal out of it, I am not, I'm making less of a deal out of anti-semitism than you are of your beliefs. My post was not designed to combat your ideas but to build up to the question, "Why?".
Bardamu, are you saying that I am aiming to 'attack' others by being anti-anti-semitic. If so I think you got the wrong idea in my post when I said, "Judaism preaches peace, it is your minds that see violence." All I have done is ask why you are anti-semitic yet you see that as a 'crime', the first step to a zionist world domination. This is not tolerance, I ask a question and you turn it into me paving the way for the zionist state of America. I don't give a shit how many Jews live in America right now, they're there and I'm here. I don't give a shit about Jews in Europe making any words against them illegal, that sure as well isn't the case where I live (a little island off the cost of Europe). I have never attacked anyone else, I have never attacked anyone for insulting me. But in your eyes when you make insulting comments but then a Jew comes along to question them, it's suddenly wrong for the Jew to disagree with what you say. Surely you're being hypocritical.
I am offended by the criticism, yet I have not said 'don't do it', it is your belief after all and you are entitled to it. So you say, "where one group claims exemption from criticism; yet this same group never hesitates to level their own criticisms at others." this describes what you have done far more so than what I have done.
Now again, what I want is an answer to the few or many forumers that have these beliefs, if you were to meet me as a Jew (which I very rarely express, I see no point) and you were to somehow find out I was a Jew, for what reason would your opinion change of me, or would it? Why would you be against me as a Jew despite I would have done nothing against you?
2005-06-20 15:29 | User Profile
RHYNOME? I for one am a anti-Zionist, to me there is a difference between a Semite-Jew and a so called Zionist-Jew.
Like you wrote "I am first a British and then a Jew" however the American Jew don't think as you do......many times I have asked them "if ordered by the president of the USA if they would fight against the Zionist state of Israel" and every single one of them said NO for they are Israelis first and then Americans.
So, as long as you do not defend those "Jews" in the state of Israel or the American Jews then you and I have peace. :tank:
As you know only 10% of those who call themselves "Jews" are real Jews and the rest are European Khazards make believe wannabe Jews.
2005-06-20 16:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Rhynome] Now I sit here, catholic mother, jewish father, jewish self.... I'm a Brit first, a Jew second. According to traditional Jewish law, you are not a Jew unless your mother is Jewish.
[QUOTE=Rhynome]So what I need to understand is why, after my upbringing, one that promotes peace, where I was told as a child that even though I may not like someone the Torah (or atleast someone's interpretation) says "Do not harm your fellow human." And "Everyone is born equal." If everyone is born equal they have a right to be equal. That is not actually what Judaism teaches at all. Perhaps you should crack open the Babylonian Talmud?
[QUOTE=Rhynome] Judaism preaches peace, it is your minds that see violence. All I want is an answer, why are you anti-semetic?[/QUOTE] Wrong again. You might wish to read Jewish History, Jewish Religion by Israel Shahak (a Jew) for a better understanding of what your religion's actual doctrines are.
2005-06-20 16:55 | User Profile
The only reason for being a Jew only if your mother was a Jew was because of the pogroms and the rapes. It made sense as often no one knew who the father was. This is According to Eastern European Jewish Tradition. According to Judaism I'm a Jew.
The Talmud are some bitter exiled rabbis compilations on the Torah, not the religion itself. I've cracked open my haftorah and read it, and it says 'all are born equal' and there are very strong messages that we shouldn't have to kill each other. Read the prophecies of the Messiah, it kinda highlights that killing is wrong. Oh and hang on a second, the 10 commandments 'don't kill' kinda has a direct message, no?
My religious doctrines are summed up by what was written by humans thousands of years ago and over a period of thousands of years, one politically motivated book does not highlight my religious doctrines.
A gentile came up to a rabbi in the temple as said "Teach me Judaism in the time that I can stand on one leg for".
The rabbi replied "How long can you stand on one leg."
"Not long."
"Then love your neighbour as yourself/you would like to be loved, the rest is just commentry go and study it." I think that reveals the religious doctrines most likely a bit stronger than that book.
2005-06-20 18:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Rhynome] The Talmud are some bitter exiled rabbis compilations on the Torah, not the religion itself. Judaism is based on the Talmud, not the Torah. It follows the Torah only insofar as the Torah has been interpreted by the rabbis in the Talmud.
[QUOTE=Rhynome]I've cracked open my haftorah and read it, and it says 'all are born equal' and there are very strong messages that we shouldn't have to kill each other. Read the prophecies of the Messiah, it kinda highlights that killing is wrong. Oh and hang on a second, the 10 commandments 'don't kill' kinda has a direct message, no?[/QUOTE] Could you direct me to the verse in the Old Testament that says 'all are born equal'? I agree that the OT has prohibitions against murder, but Judaism is based on the Talmud, which does not condemn the murder of Gentiles, but only of Jews.
2005-06-20 19:15 | User Profile
I'm a reform Jew, Judaism must be reformed. So we turn back to the Torah. Torah means Teachings, you learn from what you are taught not from what others think you ought to be taught. The talmud has some very interesting stuff in it but I do not take it as gospel truth. Also Orthodox Jews believe that the Torah is the word of G-d, why follow the words of men over those of gods?
And once again "Thou shalt not kill". It's very ****ing clear, does it need criticism?
2005-06-20 20:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Rhynome]I'm a reform Jew, Judaism must be reformed. So we turn back to the Torah. Torah means Teachings, you learn from what you are taught not from what others think you ought to be taught. The talmud has some very interesting stuff in it but I do not take it as gospel truth. But Judaism, in general, does. [QUOTE=Rhynome]Also Orthodox Jews believe that the Torah is the word of G-d, why follow the words of men over those of gods? Orthodox Jews follow the Torah as interpreted in the Talmud. It is bait-and-switch to say, oh, Judaism follows the Torah, but then to intepret the Torah in such a way as to give it a completely different meaning.
From the [u]Jewish Encyclopedia[/u]:[indent] ... and with the destruction of the Temple the Sadducees disappeared altogether, leaving the regulation of all Jewish affairs in the hands of the Pharisees. Henceforth Jewish life was regulated by the teachings of the Pharisees; the whole history of Judaism was reconstructed from the Pharisaic point of view, and a new aspect was given to the Sanhedrin of the past. A new chain of tradition supplanted the older, priestly tradition. Pharisaism shaped the character of Judaism and the life and thought of the Jew for all the future. * [/indent]Modern Judaism is not* the same religion practiced by the Jewish people before the destruction of the Second Temple.
[QUOTE=Rhynome]And once again "Thou shalt not kill". It's very ****ing clear, does it need criticism?[/QUOTE]I wasn't aware that I had criticized this commandment.
2005-06-21 17:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE]I'm a Brit first, a Jew second.[/QUOTE]That is not possible. What being Jewish means is that your Jewish identity comes first. That's the symbolism of monotheism in a nutshell.
If you want to understand Judaism & anti-Semitism, Professor Kevin MacDonalds' books are your best bet.
The primary point of MacDonaldââ¬â¢s first book (when considered in conjunction with D.S. Wilsonââ¬â¢s work) is that the Jewish community is a groupââ¬âa unit that, despite internal dissent, possesses structures that enable it to act as such. David Sloan Wilson (and I) will tell you that it is quite literally a biological organism. This is why you bear the guilt for whatever the Israeli government or culture destroyers in the US are doing. The doctrine of collective responsibility has a long history in Jewish religious tradition; this is not just a recent construction of evolutionary biologists.
[url]http://www.aish.com/torahportion/kolyaakov/-Cells_of_One_Organism-.asp[/url]
[url]http://www.jbuff.com/d072601.htm[/url]
The primary point of MacDonaldââ¬â¢s second book is that successful competition with the Jewish group requires cohesion that enables a gentile population to act as a unit.
The point of his third book is that the Jewish group has authored intellectual movements designed to prevent gentile populations from functioning effectively as a unit.
2005-06-21 17:56 | User Profile
From the following link:
[url]http://www.aish.com/torahportion/kolyaakov/-Cells_of_One_Organism-.asp[/url]
A soul cannot sin alone. A body cannot be kind alone. Reward and punishment can only apply to an entity that is the entire person, the body and soul together. Only the body and soul together has free will and is an image of God. And therefore, only a body and a soul together can accept oaths, especially as grandiose as the entire Torah.
So, how are we to understand the Midrash and the Rashi who claim that all of the generations were at Sinai and accepted the Torah?
[B]Here we become aware of a fundamental concept of Jewish living.[/B] The Midrash does not mean that we are bound to the Torah because we personally made an oath to God at Sinai. While it may be true that our souls were there in some mystical way, our souls could not have accepted anything that would be binding. Rather, the Midrash means that our generation was at Sinai by dint of the entire original generation of Jews being at Sinai and accepting the Torah. [B]The Jewish nation is one continuous entity that exists throughout history. Each generation may be comprised of new individual people but the continuous entity remains.[/B]
If you were to scientifically break down any living organism into individual cells, you would discover that after a period of years, there is not one cell left with which the organism was born. Yet, do we look at an older cow, with its brand new and different group of cells from when it was a calf, as a different cow than it was many years ago? Of course not. It is the same cow even though its cells have been regenerated.
The same is true of the Jewish nation. Individual generations of Jews die, just as cells of an organism do, but they are replaced with new generations. The Jewish nation, like the organism, remains intact. The Jewish nation of today's times is the same nation that existed at Sinai. Therefore, it is as if our generation was present at Sinai as well. The question of our personal acceptance of God's laws is only a question if we view ourselves as individuals. But [B]we are not individuals. Each of us is a cell in the grand organism that is the Jewish people.[/B]
[B]We must not relate to God as individuals. Rather, we come to God as part of Klal Yisrael, the Jewish nation.[/B] Rambam writes: (Laws of Repentance 3:11) "Whoever separates himself from the community, even though he does not commit transgressions, but merely divides himself from the congregation of Israel, does not perform the commandments with them, doesn't feel their pain, doesn't fast when they face tragedies, but lives his life in his own individual way as if he were not part of the nation, loses his portion in the World to Come."
[B]Living our individual lives while always having the nation in mind is not a simple task, but it is the very lifeblood of being a Jew. There is no such thing as observing the Torah's laws while ignoring the predicaments and concerns of the nation. [/B] This is also why we should see any personal tragedy as part of the national tragedies of the Jewish people. As a result, mourners are always comforted with the statement, "May God comfort you AMONG THE OTHER MOURNERS OF (THE DESTRUCTION OF) ZION AND JERUSALEM."
2005-06-21 19:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Rhynome] Now I sit here, catholic mother, jewish father, jewish self. I do not like Israel, I like the Arabs less but I do not like the policies of the current israeli government. I don't like them but I understand they have to take these actions, but also they give Palestinians free universities, free healthcare, they let them have a footing in life. Oh what oppression the arabs face at the hands of the 'Jews'. I am held accountable for Israel's actions, I've never even been to Israel, I don't intend to. I'm a Brit first, a Jew second.[/QUOTE]
Free universities and healthcare for Palestinians in the Occupied Territories? Does that make up for the collateral damage caused by Israeli attacks in their collective punishment campaigns in the Occupied Territories? What do you make of the Wall of Separation effectively stealing land on the West Bank?
Why is collective punishment OK for Arabs but you feel that collective punishment or animosity towards Jews for the actions of Israel is "anti-Semitism"?
2005-06-21 22:18 | User Profile
Hilarious! Rynome says that he is for peace and then gabs about how great the Palestinians have it. Peace, my buttocks! There are a few Jews out there that want nothing to do with Zionism and who do not have any desire to lord it over the Gentiles, but they are few and far between.
I love this nonsense about the Gentiles being lazy. Hey man, I have two master's degrees, but I work at a cruddy job making about the same wage as a garbage man. I was born into a Jewish controlled world. If I were a Jew and had two master's degrees, it would be a simple matter of Daddy having a chat with Uncle Schlomo or making a few phone calls to prominent members of the "community" and I would have a nice job somewhere.
2005-06-21 23:46 | User Profile
The problem with Jews isn't in their interpretation of religious doctrine and how reformed or orthodox they claim to be, it is in their very genetic makeup. First off, they are not White Europeans, but an amalgamation of the different groups that passed through the Middle East and their subsequent post-Diaspora wanderings. As such, they naturally desire to create societies that reflect their inner nature and tend to force multiculturalism where ever they inhabit. Even the most well-meaning Jews I've known instinctively harbor dangerous communistic tendencies. It is no wonder that ideology was founded and implemented mostly by Jews. Ultimately, I do not hate nor bear ill will towards individual Jews, but we should protect our people and nation from their poison.
2005-06-22 00:01 | User Profile
The problem with Jews? they are here.
2005-06-22 01:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Rhynome]Up until now I have not once openly criticised anti-semtism. I understand that it is not just Jews, it's semites, anyone from (the mainly western part of) the Middle East. But it has become to mean 'anti-Jew'.
Good. We are in the realm of defining our terms. Yes, anti-Semitism does indeed mean criticism of Jews and no one else. The term was never meant to include Arabs or other Semites.
Bardamu, are you saying that I am aiming to 'attack' others by being anti-anti-semitic.
I did not say this. I said that to be anti-anti-Semitic is to be anti-criticism-of- Jews which is hard to defend. Everyone is open to criticism especially the wealthy and powerful. Imagine, a political block of extremely wealthy activists who place themselves above criticism and yet fill whole libraries with their in depth "deconstruction" of everyone else.
If so I think you got the wrong idea in my post when I said, "Judaism preaches peace, it is your minds that see violence."
The Talmud is not a peaceful document and Israel is not a peaceful country.
All I have done is ask why you are anti-semitic yet you see that as a 'crime', the first step to a zionist world domination.
Jews are the ones who make a world-historic crisis out of criticism of any kind, internal or external.
This is not tolerance, I ask a question and you turn it into me paving the way for the zionist state of America.
No. I point out that Jews as a group maintain a fascade that criticising them is synonymous with "hate" while all the while pouring out a constant sewerstorm of defamation at my culture and history from their cesspools in Hollywood and the media in general.
I don't give a shit how many Jews live in America right now, they're there and I'm here. I don't give a shit about Jews in Europe making any words against them illegal, that sure as well isn't the case where I live (a little island off the cost of Europe). I have never attacked anyone else, I have never attacked anyone for insulting me. But in your eyes when you make insulting comments but then a Jew comes along to question them, it's suddenly wrong for the Jew to disagree with what you say. Surely you're being hypocritical.>
I maintain the right to criticise any group with special attention to rich and powerful.
I am offended by the criticism, yet I have not said 'don't do it', it is your belief after all and you are entitled to it. So you say, "where one group claims exemption from criticism; yet this same group never hesitates to level their own criticisms at others." this describes what you have done far more so than what I have done.
We are talking about power in the world not internet flamewars. On a personal level I couldn't care less about you or your thoughts of me.
Now again, what I want is an answer to the few or many forumers that have these beliefs, if you were to meet me as a Jew (which I very rarely express, I see no point) and you were to somehow find out I was a Jew, for what reason would your opinion change of me, or would it? Why would you be against me as a Jew despite I would have done nothing against you?[/QUOTE]
You have completely missed the point of the post. Anti-Semitism isn't criticism or dislike of you personally, it is criticism of Jewish power and agenda.
2005-06-29 05:14 | User Profile
A socialist who is an acountant? This type of compromise doesn't work. I am not an anti-semite, I don't hate Jews for being Jews. I just disagree with the support of Israel many American Jews have. In the same way, I disagree with an Irish-American who would support the IRA.
2005-06-29 11:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ron]I am not an anti-semite, I don't hate Jews for being Jews. [/QUOTE]
This is not the definition of an anti-semite. An a-s is anyone who the jews don't like.