← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · JoseyWales
Thread ID: 18672 | Posts: 26 | Started: 2005-06-15
2005-06-15 13:39 | User Profile
[url]http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2005/06/14/conservatives_popularity_may_be_problem_for_gop/[/url]
I can see the backroom conversations between Mo Sleez, Chertoff and Foxman already heating up over the prospect of Moore as governor. I bet ol Mo Sleeze has his panties in a twist.
I wish Moore all the best of luck.
If Moore does take the governorship and it comes to a showdown between him and Bush as the scenario in the article describes, I have no doubt that ol Dubya will do the bidding of Foxman and company.
2005-06-15 15:09 | User Profile
We should help support him with monetary conributions. :)
2005-06-15 18:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE]We should help support him with monetary conributions. [/QUOTE]
I generally resist sending money to any Politicrooks just no way to compete with either the secular-socialists or the business lobby. However, like the few bucks I make it a habit to send to Tancredo's camp, I'd make an exception for Moore.
2005-06-16 22:32 | User Profile
Judge Roy Moore speaks Ten Commandments jurist explains actions in new book
Note: "So Help Me God" has been sale priced below Amazon!
Many words have been spoken and written about the man known as "The Ten Commandments judge."
Judge Roy Moore has been vilified. He has been ridiculed. He has been pilloried. And he was removed from his duly elected office as chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court because of his stand in favor of "The Ten Commandments."
Yet, until now, few have actually heard much from Judge Roy Moore himself.
Lengthy interviews with him have been scarce, so he is known more by what others say about him than by what he has said himself.
All that is about to change with the release of an autobiographical book, "So Help Me God."
Subtitled "The Ten Commandments, Judicial Tyranny, and the Battle for Religious Freedom," Moore takes on some of the most controversial issues of the day and forces the question, "can the state acknowledge God?"
The book represents the first chance for Americans to hear about the removal of the Ten Commandments monument from Alabama's state Judicial Building rotunda, as well as Moore's removal from the highest judicial office in Alabama, from the perspective of the man in the cross-hairs of the American Civil Liberties Union and other church-state separatists.
Moore makes the case that one must acknowledge God to understand both the Alabama and United States constitutions.
"This book is a must-read in order to understand how judicial supremacists have denied our inalienable right to acknowledge God," says Phyllis Schlafly, founder of the Eagle Forum.
The book also delves into the life that shaped Moore's convictions ââ¬â his roots in rural poverty, his life in West Point and his combat experience in Vietnam.
"It is time that the American people awake to the true meaning of separation of church and state and our unique relationship to God as a Nation," explains Moore. "No longer can we afford to sit quietly by while the A.C.L.U. and others take away our right to publicly acknowledge God secured by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution."
In 2004, Moore co-authored the Constitution Restoration Act, allowing public officials their First Amendment right to acknowledge God, and spoke before committees of the U.S. Senate and House of Representatives. The legislation will soon be reintroduced to the 109th Congress.
Purchase Judge Roy Moore's "So Help Me God" now.
[url]http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44392[/url]
2005-06-16 22:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=jeffersonian]I generally resist sending money to any Politicrooks just no way to compete with either the secular-socialists or the business lobby. However, like the few bucks I make it a habit to send to Tancredo's camp, I'd make an exception for Moore.[/QUOTE]
How to help... [url]http://www.morallaw.org/help.htm[/url]
2005-06-17 02:00 | User Profile
Outside of displaying the ten commandments throughout his state, what is Judge Moore going to do for the average White Alabamian? There are plenty of Christians (i.e. Pat Robertson) who are diametrically opposed to traditional American values.
2005-06-18 22:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE]If he {Moore} wins, some party strategists speculate, he could defy a federal court order again by erecting a religious monument outside the Alabama state Capitol building. With the 2008 presidential race looming, President Bush would then face a no-win decision: either call out the National Guard to enforce a court order against a religious display on state grounds or allow a fellow born-again Christian to defy the courts.[/QUOTE]Personally, I respect Roy Moore for having the cojones to do what he did. So I would love to see all of the above happen. Holding Bush's feet over the fire like this would be the ultimate showdown. Bring 'em on! Heh heh!
2005-06-19 09:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]Outside of displaying the ten commandments throughout his state, what is Judge Moore going to do for the average White Alabamian?
Visibly defying the federal government on any level would be a great start.
There are plenty of Christians (i.e. Pat Robertson) who are diametrically opposed to traditional American values.[/QUOTE]
How is Pat Robertson diametrically opposed to traditional American values, Brian?
2005-06-19 20:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]Outside of displaying the ten commandments throughout his state, what is Judge Moore going to do for the average White Alabamian? There are plenty of Christians (i.e. Pat Robertson) who are diametrically opposed to traditional American values.[/QUOTE]
He was an honest and fair judge. :smile:
2005-06-21 14:12 | User Profile
If he runs, he'll win. He was [B]elected[/B] Chief Justice in 2000. They couldn't vote him out, so they chickensh!ted him out. If I didn't learn anything else the 11 years I lived in Alabama, I learned this: People in Alabama don't like the Federal Government telling them what to do!
2005-06-21 16:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]How is Pat Robertson diametrically opposed to traditional American values, Brian?[/QUOTE]I'm not Brian, but here's my answer: Robertson is an Israel-loving theocrat. He's also a seller of religious snake-oil who dupes an untold number of weak-minded people (many undoubtedly elderly) out of their money via his rubbish on the 700 Club. "Now put your hand up against mine on the TV screen and pray to Jeezus for those demonic forces causing your arthritis to leave! God will cure you if you send me your next pension check!" Absolutely sickening.
[url]http://www.patrobertson.com/PressReleases/ZionistAward.asp[/url]
A primary reason why our tax dollars are being sent to those kikes in Israel is that Robertson and his ilk are forcing their retarded religious opinions on the rest of us by sheer force of numbers. Traditional American values hold that there shall be no official US religion. That includes Zionism, either Christian or kikish.
2005-06-21 17:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Visibly defying the federal government on any level would be a great start.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. That would be more than enough for me.
2005-06-21 17:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angler]He's also a seller of religious snake-oil who dupes an untold number of weak-minded people (many undoubtedly elderly) out of their money via his rubbish on the 700 Club. "Now put your hand up against mine on the TV screen and pray to Jeezus for those demonic forces causing your arthritis to leave! God will cure you if you send me your next pension check!" Absolutely sickening.
You're hysterical, Angler. That's Bob Tilton or Oral Roberts, not Pat Robertson.
A primary reason why our tax dollars are being sent to those kikes in Israel is that Robertson and his ilk are forcing their retarded religious opinions on the rest of us by sheer force of numbers.
Though he is certainly pro-Israel, I'm sure Robertson would be thrilled to know he had that much power to influence US foreign policy. Not hardly. The simple fact is the majority of Americans are pro-Israel like it or not. Robertson simply makes a good whipping boy for foaming-at-the-mouth, anti-religious zealots like yourself.
Traditional American values hold that there shall be no official US religion. That includes Zionism, either Christian or kikish.[/QUOTE]
If it hasn't been the official US religion, there can be no doubt that Protestant Christianity has been the de facto religion of America since Jamestown. Unfortunately, pre-mil dispensationalism has taken a prominent foothold within American protestantism over the last hundred years or so, but that is still just one aspect of Robertson's overall 'theocratic' platform that is highlighted right now because of our misadventures in Iraq. Not too many years ago Robertson came under fire from organized jewry for his "international bankers" quote from his book 'The New World Order'. In short, I'm not a big fan of Pat Robertson, but there is certainly more to the man and what he stands for than pro-Zionism and the bulk of it is certainly traditionally Christian and American.
2005-06-21 21:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Visibly defying the federal government on any level would be a great start.
How is Pat Robertson diametrically opposed to traditional American values, Brian?[/QUOTE] A) He places his religious convictions above the good of our nation in his steadfast support for Israel and a muliticultural United States. B) He blurs the line between religious and secular authority which is clearly unAmerican as defined by our Founding Fathers. C) As an alleged Christian, he follows the Old over the New Testament. In other words, Pat Robertson is not a conservative, a Christian, nor an American. He is a power hungry, morally bankrupt man who follows the allmighty dollar over the good of his people.
As far as Judge Moore goes, I agree with your assertion that open political defiance of the federal government is beneficial. I would like to know more about his specific platform, however.
2005-06-21 21:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE]
Though he is certainly pro-Israel, I'm sure Robertson would be thrilled to know he had that much power to influence US foreign policy. Not hardly. The simple fact is the majority of Americans are pro-Israel like it or not. Robertson simply makes a good whipping boy for foaming-at-the-mouth, anti-religious zealots like yourself.
[/QUOTE]I wonder how many of those Americans are pro-Israel because they foolishly look up to rabid zionist kooks like Pat Robertson and others?
[QUOTE] Personally, I respect Roy Moore for having the cojones to do what he did. [/QUOTE] I agree. Other then that I don't know much about the man.
2005-06-21 21:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=starr]I wonder how many of those Americans are pro-Israel because they foolishly look up to rabid zionist kooks like Pat Robertson and others? [/QUOTE] Bob Whitaker talks about how liberals are given free reign by the mere fact that "respectable" conservatives sit down and debate them as equals on Sunday morning talk shows instead of laughing at their utter stupidity. People naturally look up to men on national tv and emulate their positions. The reason why most Christians are so enamored with Israel is because their leadership tells them they should be.
2005-06-21 21:57 | User Profile
Thanks for replying, Brian.
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]A) He places his religious convictions above the good of our nation in his steadfast support for Israel and a muliticultural United States.
There are thousands upon thousands of prominent 'leaders' in our country that steadfastly support Israel and a multicultural US on grounds that are decidedly not religious. You're gonna be writing off alot of folks with that qualification.
B) He blurs the line between religious and secular authority which is clearly unAmerican as defined by our Founding Fathers.
I would like some kind of example of this. Would outlawing abortion be blurring the line, in your opinion? Protecting school prayer? Again, an example please.
C) As an alleged Christian, he follows the Old over the New Testament.
Given the myriad of thought on the subject, one could drive a truck through following "the Old over the New Testament." I'm not sure what that has to do with being a traditional American conservative though.
In other words, Pat Robertson is not a conservative, a Christian, nor an American. He is a power hungry, morally bankrupt man who follows the allmighty dollar over the good of his people.
Sounds like you really have a personal issue with the man. Like I said, I'm not a fan of his, but I cannot say that he is not a conservative, a Christian or even an American.
As far as Judge Moore goes, I agree with your assertion that open political defiance of the federal government is beneficial. I would like to know more about his specific platform, however.[/QUOTE]
Probably wouldn't like it because in large part it would sound alot like Pat Robertson. :lol:
2005-06-21 22:01 | User Profile
I liked what Moore did with the Ten Commandments issue, but his ties to the so-called "Religious Right" make him suspect in my eyes. I agree with some of the agenda of the Religious Right on issues like abortion, morality ect. However, what's wrong with the RR is that they are shills for Zionism and corporate America. I simply can't understand how a Christian can have anything to do with defending capitalism.
I also don't understand this school prayer nonsense. I don't see how prayer can convert people to Christianity, a typical Arminian view that as a Lutheran I find absurd. A bunch of non-believers mouthing the Lord's Prayer is a useless exercise. They can pray till the cows come home. If the school bus crashes and they haven't heard the gospel (or been baptized) and have not come to faith by the power of the Holy Ghost, the little crumb-crunchers are going to Hell.
2005-06-21 22:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]T
I would like some kind of example of this. Would outlawing abortion be blurring the line, in your opinion? Protecting school prayer? Again, an example please. [/QUOTE] No, I personally would support a ban on abortions in most cases. School prayer, as long as not compulsory, probably doesn't violate the establishment clause either. I have no problem with most Americans being Christian and advocating that the government reflect their values, my problem with Robertson and his ilk is their theocratic tendencies would force out other equally valid European religions like Paganism or my personal Atheistic religion. The Founding Fathers were early proponents of religious tolerance and those values are essentially core American issues.
2005-06-21 22:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CornCod]I also don't understand this school prayer nonsense. I don't see how prayer can convert people to Christianity...[/QUOTE]
The Holy Spirit works through the Word and Sacrament and those are the divinely instituted means of the Church.
That's not the point of school prayer, CC. The point is 1) it unites the participants in a common higher bond within the public arena, and 2) it makes it very clear what the standards are. It is a critical unifying expression of the common bonds that hold communities, cultures and entire societies together. As Luther commented and I loosely paraphras, one does not have to believe, but they better dang well shut up about it if they want to live in that town. :)
The school prayer test is very simple: after a 30+ year successful campaign to extinguish any and all Christian religious expression in the public arena, is our country better or worse off than it was even just 40 or 50 years ago?
No one could convince me that one doesn't have anything to do with the other.
2005-06-21 22:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]No, I personally would support a ban on abortions in most cases. School prayer, as long as not compulsory, probably doesn't violate the establishment clause either. I have no problem with most Americans being Christian and advocating that the government reflect their values, my problem with Robertson and his ilk is their theocratic tendencies would force out other equally valid European religions like Paganism or my personal Atheistic religion. The Founding Fathers were early proponents of religious tolerance and those values are essentially core American issues.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough, Brian. You might want to review Brother Yannis' recent comments on atheism and Americanism, though. I'll try to find the post.
2005-06-21 22:29 | User Profile
Texas D makes some interesting points. I still don't see how non-Christians can get anything out of prayer. I also worry about the content of any possible prayer. In the current climate any school prayer is likely to be a bunch of ecumenical nonsense. I doubt very much the prayer would be in the name of the Triune God. Any such prayer would actually be HARMFUL to the Christian children present.
I have long advocated a moment of silence (which has also been struck down by the Supreme Court). A moment of silence would give the Christians present a chance to pray if they like.
2005-06-21 22:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CornCod]I have long advocated a moment of silence (which has also been struck down by the Supreme Court). A moment of silence would give the Christians present a chance to pray if they like.[/QUOTE]
I'd settle for nothing less than a prayer addressed to 'God, Our Father' and closing 'in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ', just like we did every day in the public schools I attended in the late 70s and 80s here in Texas. I think it was some atheist jew kid that finally brought suit against the school district and eventually led to no prayer at all. Now the only prayers one hears are a few kids here and there trying to avoid being raped, stabbed, shot or drugged and our 'diversity' is certainly NOT any kind of strength.
2005-06-21 22:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CornCod]Texas D makes some interesting points. I still don't see how non-Christians can get anything out of prayer. I also worry about the content of any possible prayer. In the current climate any school prayer is likely to be a bunch of ecumenical nonsense. I doubt very much the prayer would be in the name of the Triune God. Any such prayer would actually be HARMFUL to the Christian children present.
I have long advocated a moment of silence (which has also been struck down by the Supreme Court). A moment of silence would give the Christians present a chance to pray if they like.[/QUOTE] I agree in the value of the marketplace of ideas and the near unfettered expression of speech. School prayer is just another example of speech and if someone doesn't like it, they don't have to listen. As long as we don't have teachers leading their classes in public prayer, silent or small group prayer should be allowed.
2005-06-22 00:05 | User Profile
It is so amusing how it is the same people who will bitch about prayer in schools and with an argument such as "they are trying to force their values on the children", and yet they will advocate "the children" learning about homosexuality and reading books such as "heather has two mommies" and if anyone objects to that they will say you are an intolerant bigot. What is stuff such as that if not them trying to force their perverted and degenerate values and agendas on children?
2005-06-22 01:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=starr]It is so amusing how it is the same people who will bitch about prayer in schools and with an argument such as "they are trying to force their values on the children", and yet they will advocate "the children" learning about homosexuality and reading books such as "heather has two mommies" and if anyone objects to that they will say you are an intolerant bigot. What is stuff such as that if not them trying to force their perverted and degenerate values and agendas on children?[/QUOTE]
Great post, starr! [img]http://www.bloomtastic.com/Images/Roses%20&%20Holidays%201%20Doz.%20Red%20Roses.JPG[/img]