← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Sertorius
Thread ID: 18661 | Posts: 21 | Started: 2005-06-14
2005-06-14 11:07 | User Profile
US acts over Israeli arms sales to China
Conal Urquhart in Tel Aviv Monday June 13, 2005 The Guardian
The United States has imposed sanctions on Israel after a dispute over Israel's sale of drones - unmanned aerial vehicles - to China, according to news reports.
The US has suspended co-operation on several development projects and frozen delivery of night-vision equipment.
An official at the US embassy in Tel Aviv said he was aware of the reports but would not comment on them. He said the information about the sanctions had come from the Israeli government and not the US.
The sanctions have been in place for at least three months and were approved by Donald Rumsfeld, the defence secretary, and Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state, seven months ago, according to the reports.
Although the US is primarily angered by the behaviour of civil servants whose tenure stretches back to the Labour government of Ehud Barak in 2000, the crisis threatens Israel's relations with the US.
A report in the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz concluded: "Following the crisis, one can sense the repulsion toward Israel among lower- and middle-ranking officials in Washington.
"More and more of them are saying that it is not worth doing business with Israel."
The US believes that Israeli officials lied to them about the export of Harpy Killer drones to China.
The officials claimed that Israel was merely refurbishing old drones which had been exported with American consent. The US argued that the drones had been upgraded using new technology which it had shared with Israel.
The US fears that China is becoming increasingly well-armed and may seek to settle longstanding territorial and political disputes by the threat and use of force.
China has repeatedly threatened Taiwan with attack if it declares independence, and South Korea and Japan are concerned about China translating its size into military power.
The US is also keen that the EU maintain its arms embargo on China, which was put in place after the crushing of pro-democracy protesters in Tiananmen Square in 1989.
It is the second time that the US has had a serious quarrel with Israel over arms sales. In 2000, Israel was forced to suspend the sale of radar equipment to China at the insistence of the US. Israel was then obliged to pay millions of pounds in compensation for breach of contract.
Israel receives at least ã1.5bn in grants annually from the US government as well as around ã1bn from individuals and the sale of government bonds. Most of its military equipment is American-made or incorporates American technology.
US subsidies and joint ventures have given Israeli arms companies the opportunity to grow and sell arms and technology all over the world. Israel is believed to be the 10th biggest arms trader in the world.
The Israeli defence ministry said it was holding "quiet and specific talks with the United States with the goal of resolving the misunderstanding that has developed".
According to Ha'aretz, the US has indicated that normal relations will not be resumed until Israel agrees to a series of humiliating conditions.
Israel must provide information on 60 recent arms deals with China and agree to American supervision of arms dealings which might be seen as "sensitive" by the US, the report said.
The US wants to know how deals are supervised by Israel to understand how errors occurred in the past and how they can be prevented in future.
Finally, Israel and the US will jointly produce a memorandum of understanding on future coordination and supervision of Israel's arms exports.
Other reports suggested that the US was insisting that four Israeli officials at the ministry of defence be fired for their role in the alleged deception. [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,1505184,00.html[/url]
2005-06-14 15:04 | User Profile
Good find, S. It's refreshing to see a little anger towards Israeli treachery on the part of this administration. Still, I have to wonder how long it will last before the AIPAC and the Left Behind crowd get wind of this and wail loudly enough to change minds in the Defense Dept.
2005-06-14 15:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE]A report in the Israeli newspaper Ha'aretz concluded: "[B][I]Following the crisis, one can sense the repulsion toward Israel among lower- and middle-ranking officials in Washington.
"More and more of them are saying that it is not worth doing business with Israel[/I][/B]."
The US believes that Israeli officials lied to them about the export of Harpy Killer drones to China.[/QUOTE]When will those at the top start to open their mouths?
2005-06-14 16:13 | User Profile
Given the latest media droppings about AIPAC and Larry Franklin, now this, I have to wonder, (only if I dropped in from another planet), just why these stories never make it onto the news in a consistently prominent way. If this concerned France or Germany, the stories would lead off international news and be given a berth above the fold for weeks and months. But with Israel and the Jews, you can hunt for these stories til the cows come home and you might find them if you have the time and determination, and then only in its most abbreviated form.
This country is being kept in the dark about most things, but especially about these things. One small chink in the wall, though. Bob Grant, WOR radio talkmeister, now allows a few anti-Israel callers to get their say without his usual anti-Semite slapdowns. Maybe a light has finally gone off. But the great suck-up, Hannity and the now out of touch, Limbaugh never even give it a nod. Forget about BillyO. He's too busy trying to sound intelligent. It takes up all his oxygen.
Isn't it ironic that you need to turn to the left to hear any criticism of Israel and even then it's blame-lite.
2005-06-14 22:19 | User Profile
DB,
No, none of those clowns will talk about this. They are making too many shekels as things stand. If they ever do I'm sure they will take the line that "Israel is our ally in the war against terror, so we shouldn't withhold information blah, blah, blah..."
Limbaugh must be back on drugs again. He has been making a claim that only the most fanatical Neocons like Stephen Schwartz or Michael Ledeed would make. His latest line is that everyone in Iraq that is shooting at the G.I.s is from Iran and Syria. The Iraqis are all on our side save the "Baathist deadenders" and we should look at this as Iran attacking us along with Syria. I am not making this up. What's even worse is that most of his callers were agreeing with him.
Hell, maybe he has been talking to Ledeed.
One small chink in the wall, though. Bob Grant, WOR radio talkmeister, now allows a few anti-Israel callers to get their say without his usual anti-Semite slapdowns.
Charles Goyette has been using his radio show to call for Bush's impeachment. He was fired by Clear Channel for being against this stupid war. [url]http://www.charlesgoyette.com/[/url]
2005-06-14 23:34 | User Profile
Sert,
I heard that bloated idiot compare the water board (I'm sure you know what I'm talking about) to having a water balloon dropped on one's head. He actually claimed it would be refreshing in the muggy climate of Gitmo. I don't feel particualrly sorry for the Talibunnies, but to make light of torture in such a stupid manner is just plain irritating and crass.
I'd like to "pour water" on his head for an hour and see how refreshing he found it.
2005-06-15 00:43 | User Profile
I wrote about this a while back therefore this is nothing new to me.
This is only the tip of the iceberg as to what the Jews are selling to China and I wonder who is getting those weapons from China in return....looks like our boys will be killed with our own weapons thanks to our "friends" the Zionists of the state of Israel......WAKE UP GRINGOSSSSSSSSS THIS CUBAN DON'T WANT TO GET KILLED BY AMERICANINSKI WEAPONS.
2005-06-15 01:11 | User Profile
Yeah!
2005-06-15 01:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]His latest line is that everyone in Iraq that is shooting at the G.I.s is from Iran and Syria. The Iraqis are all on our side save the "Baathist deadenders" and we should look at this as Iran attacking us along with Syria. I am not making this up. [/QUOTE] Good sir, may I offer a few pointers that I learned last year while in a hot and nasty place.
A whole crapload of the folks who are shooting and stirring up trouble in Iraq are indeed from Syria, Jordan, Saudi, and a few other places. During one battle last May, 2004, about 35 of them died to American soldiers' fire in a 10 minute fire fight. Syrians and Saudis mostly, and some dozens were of course captured. The feedback to interrogators was rather bizarre, and very believable. It was the old "My recruiter lied to me" line. How they had been told that they would kill Americans by the bushel. Some of them were very badly trained, though I daresay [u]that[/u] has probably changed. The guys running the fight are NOT stupid.
What is also true is that plenty of folks from Iraq, to include a load of Shiites in An Najaf last summer, are also shooting at the 'Merikans and anyone else they perceive as a sell out. This means other Iraqis of course.
Muktar Sadr is playing a rather cagey game this summer, backing off the shooting yet still excoriating the institution clerics for being at least minor sell outs to the Americans. That lad is not yet done. Not smart, but cagey like a fox.
2005-06-15 04:28 | User Profile
AA,
I think you missed my point here. This is Limbaugh's nonsense. I know there are a certain number from other countries. I'm simply pointing out that according to Rush, other than former Baathists, all the others are from Iran and Syria. Everyone else is on the U.S. side from hearing him tell it. This not only a lie, but an extremely stupid and dangerous one at that. I personally think the overwhelming majority of the opposition is Iraqi.
2005-06-15 04:37 | User Profile
MST,
You and I heard the same broadcast. If you preservered you may have heard that one guy nail Rush about the waterboarding. He got Rush to admit that this was what actually was going on. When Limbaugh realized he had put his foot in his mouth he got defensive and attempted to back away from his statement. People like Limbaugh and O'Reilly should quit beating around the bush and simply come out and say they favor the methods of the IDF and the Shin Bet and be done with. Limbaugh is probably the type who when younger would lean over the edge of the top level of a motel and spit on folks below.
I'd like to go one further with Rush. And Sean and Neal too. I'd like to dump them trussed up like chickens in downtown Ramadi at 02:00 in the morning.
2005-06-15 18:20 | User Profile
You and I heard the same broadcast. If you preservered you may have heard that one guy nail Rush about the waterboarding. He got Rush to admit that this was what actually was going on. When Limbaugh realized he had put his foot in his mouth he got defensive and attempted to back away from his statement.
Actually, I didn't stick it out. I'm really surprised to hear that a call nailing him on it got through. Time for a new caller screener at the EIB Network?
People like Limbaugh and O'Reilly should quit beating around the bush and simply come out and say they favor the methods of the IDF and the Shin Bet and be done with.
Agreed. They could justify it (which Limbaugh did) by pointing to all the "useful information" they get by these methods, all of which is classified, natch. Of course, if you torture someone long enough, they'll tell you exactly what you want to hear and if he thinks fingering Joe Talibunny as one of Osama Bin Laden's bodyguards will get you to stop slowly drowning him, he'll do it. As I said, I don't feel all warm and fuzzy sympathetic about head-sawers getting uncomfy, but if the precedent is set that torture is A-OK for terrorists, then how long will it be before everybody who catches the eye of the Feds is a "terrorist?" See drug laws and the use of military equipment in the enforcement thereof for a nice example.
2005-06-16 03:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]AA, I personally think the overwhelming majority of the opposition is Iraqi.[/QUOTE] That is probably an accurate assessment, overall, and also in the sense of "swim with the fishes in the sea" as Mao advised in his little red book. Even modest support to provide a sea to swim in enables effective partisan activity.
2005-06-16 14:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]His latest line is that everyone in Iraq that is shooting at the G.I.s is from Iran and Syria. The Iraqis are all on our side save the "Baathist deadenders" and we should look at this as Iran attacking us along with Syria. I am not making this up. What's even worse is that most of his callers were agreeing with him.[/QUOTE] Sert, Rush is just giving us all a lesson in the fine art of disinformation. The Necons define the Bathists as 'anyone who does not support the new American-puppet Iraqi government.' Going by this definition, one can state with a straight face that except for the evil Bathists, all the Iraqis are on our side. Playing fast and loose with definitions makes agitprop much easier.
2005-06-16 15:51 | User Profile
Q,
Rush actually said something I agree with the other day. He referred to himself as the "antihistorian". To think, he didn't even have to get the other half of his brain out to state an actual fact. There are far too many people that consider him to be some sort of historian. Maybe on Golf and football, certainly not this.
2005-06-17 22:47 | User Profile
Here's one for the books.
BillyO was asked why the Jews are so liberal, so Democrat, all the time, in every country. And here's what the egotistical, bloviator started puking..."the Jews and the Irish have been persecuted throughout history...". By putting the Jews and Irish together in this stewpot, he removed the culpability factor and sidestepped the entire question. Nice footwork. His fear of the Jews was palpable. What a tough guy.
2005-06-17 22:57 | User Profile
DB,
The difference between the Irish and the Jews can be summed up like this. The Irish assimilated into Americans, the IRA notwithstanding. The vast majority of Jews haven't. O'Reilly and Hanniot are typical ignorant Neocon loudmouths.
2005-06-18 02:15 | User Profile
Have you noticed that a dog gets between your leggs and more or less guides you to to where he wants you to go?
The Zionist state of Israel are doing the same by trying to print the news ahead of the US government and that way tell them what they are to do.
According to the news the Jews are "enrage" with the new rules that the US wants to "inpose" on them but at the same time they say that everything will be ok and Sharon dosen't even want to see Condi when she goes to the state of Israel next week.
Everyday I see more and more articles coming out to light about the Jews, for example..... the kid for the ambasador of Germany is just now getting out of jail in Peru for drug dealing, another rabbi arrested for molesting kids and on and on......is about time.
Finally something is being done about the assault on the US Liberty by the Jews.....once again "about time". :gunsmilie
2005-06-19 19:01 | User Profile
Everything is OK now folks...go back to your talmudvisions and check out the latest swill from hollyvitz...
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
[url]http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/print/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4108446.stm[/url]
BBC NEWS Israel 'sorry' over weapons sales Israel has publicly apologised to the US over a deal to sell military technology to China.
Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said he was sorry if Israel had acted in a way which was not acceptable to the Americans.
But, speaking ahead of talks with US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, he said Israel had acted in good faith.
The sales have angered Washington which fears its own technology may could be used against Taiwan.
"If things were done that were not acceptable to the Americans then we are sorry but these things were done with the utmost innocence," said Mr Shalom on Israel Radio.
Israel has supplied China with Harpy Killer unmanned attack drones, designed to target radar systems. Story from BBC NEWS: [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/4108446.stm[/url]
Published: 2005/06/19 12:53:40 GMT
é BBC MMV
2005-06-19 19:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE]"If things were done that were not acceptable to the Americans then we are sorry but these things were done with the utmost innocence," said Mr Shalom on Israel Radio.[/QUOTE] Right.
And the idiots that call themselves "conservatives" will once again act as "Charlie Brown, Lucy, and the football. The fools never learn.
The only thing they are sorry about is that this came to public attention.
2005-06-19 22:46 | User Profile
I don't care to say anything about those people at this time, to angry.
They are sorry that they got cought on this one, only Elohim knows how many more they got away with and will in the future.