← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Gabrielle
Thread ID: 18633 | Posts: 16 | Started: 2005-06-12
2005-06-12 10:25 | User Profile
Dig at old Tucson home yielding older finds
TUCSON (AP) -- An archaeological dig at one of Tucson's oldest homes is yielding artifacts dating back hundreds of years, including a a musket ball, gun flints, bones and pottery. The dig at the so-called Triplex building, Tucson's fifth-oldest home, is being done under contract with the city's downtown revitalization project.
The home will be used as a museum in the project, said Homer Thiel, project director of Desert Archaeology and a local authority on the Tucson Presidio period, 1775 to the mid-1850s.
He said that below the home's original dirt floor, archaeologists found some three feet of buried artifacts tossed there as trash during the Presidio period. There could have been 100 years of debris dumped.
Several pit houses also were found in the back yard, he said.
The Hohokam, desert dwellers from 650 to 1450, constructed the pit houses more than 1,000 years ago, he said.
Archaeological work at the site will wrap up this weekend. [url]http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/nav_includes/story.cfm?storyID=109987[/url]
2005-06-12 14:24 | User Profile
Interesting. They could be finding more evidence of the Spanish presence. Long ignored and/or covered up by American historians and modern-day Mexican revisionists, the Spanish were present in the Southwest, 'New Spain,' for centuries and fought bloody Indian wars against tribes such as the Apache long before our own Indian Wars and people such as Custer. I think the best work on this subject is: The Spanish Frontier in North America, by David J. Weber. :nerd:
Here is a good link on Spanish Colonial History in the Southwest: [url="http://www.soldados.us/links.htm#Soldados"]http://www.soldados.us/links.htm#Soldados[/url]
2005-06-12 15:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Stuka]Interesting. They could be finding more evidence of the Spanish presence. Long ignored and/or covered up by American historians and modern-day Mexican revisionists, the Spanish were present in the Southwest, 'New Spain,' for centuries and fought bloody Indian wars against tribes such as the Apache long before our own Indian Wars and people such as Custer. I think the best work on this subject is: The Spanish Frontier in North America, by David J. Weber. :nerd:
Here is a good link on Spanish Colonial History in the Southwest: [url="http://www.soldados.us/links.htm#Soldados"]http://www.soldados.us/links.htm#Soldados[/url][/QUOTE]
The Spanish were here and founded Santa Fe, New Mexico about 1610. However, their numbers were never very large.
Also, some believe the early settlers in the Southwest were Jews who had been persecuted in Mexico City and came as far north as they could.
All I know is there seems to be a lot of Indians with Spanish names.
2005-06-12 16:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ron]The Spanish were here and founded Santa Fe, New Mexico about 1610. However, their numbers were never very large.
Also, some believe the early settlers in the Southwest were Jews who had been persecuted in Mexico City and came as far north as they could.
All I know is there seems to be a lot of Indians with Spanish names.[/QUOTE]\
Oh Oh, here we go.......a lie starts with a rumor and now the new rumor is that the Jews were the first ones in the now USA and therefore they have a claim to this land.
I wonder from where to where will those people set up their wall and to separate whom from what.
I also heard a rumor that Adam and Eve were Jews therefore those people have a claim to the whole world.....as a matter of fact that's what they want THE WHOLE WORLD.
2005-06-12 17:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ponce]\
Oh Oh, here we go.......a lie starts with a rumor and now the new rumor is that the Jews were the first ones in the now USA and therefore they have a claim to this land.
I wonder from where to where will those people set up their wall and to separate whom from what.
I also heard a rumor that Adam and Eve were Jews therefore those people have a claim to the whole world.....as a matter of fact that's what they want THE WHOLE WORLD.[/QUOTE]
That's not what I said. Insofar as the Jews are concerned, this idea is what so-called crypto-Jews are spouting. It's controversial, and by no means generally accepted. However, it's more than a rumor. I don't believe in Adam and Eve anymore than any other fairy tale. It's nothing more than an ancient morality tale.
2005-06-12 19:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ron]The Spanish were here and founded Santa Fe, New Mexico about 1610. However, their numbers were never very large.
Also, some believe the early settlers in the Southwest were Jews who had been persecuted in Mexico City and came as far north as they could.
All I know is there seems to be a lot of Indians with Spanish names.[/QUOTE]
The Spanish in Santa Fe never let you forget it, either.
They really don't like being called Mexicans.
I remember in Church there they had a sort of Knights of Columbus analog called Los Caballeros de Vargas, de Vargas being the Spanish knight who founded Santa Fe by imperial decree around 1550, if memory serves. I think your 1610 date refers to a reconquista - I think it changed hands with the Indians a couple times.
Which makes Santa Fe by far one of the oldest European settlements in the United States.
I believe the only older settlement is St. Augustine, FLA.
BTW, Los Caballeros de Vargas have some really nifty ritual. They also have really cool uniforms - much, much cooler than the KoCs. Swords and the whole bit. Check it out if you're ever in the area.
2005-06-12 20:35 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Insofar as the Jews are concerned, this idea is what so-called crypto-Jews are spouting. It's controversial[/QUOTE]
It's true.
2005-06-13 01:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ponce]\
Oh Oh, here we go.......a lie starts with a rumor and now the new rumor is that the Jews were the first ones in the now USA and therefore they have a claim to this land.
I wonder from where to where will those people set up their wall and to separate whom from what.
I also heard a rumor that Adam and Eve were Jews therefore those people have a claim to the whole world.....as a matter of fact that's what they want THE WHOLE WORLD.[/QUOTE]
Now, now, don't pick on Ron. :wink:
2005-06-13 02:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ron]That's not what I said. Insofar as the Jews are concerned, this idea is what so-called crypto-Jews are spouting. It's controversial, and by no means generally accepted. However, it's more than a rumor. I don't believe in Adam and Eve anymore than any other fairy tale. It's nothing more than an ancient morality tale.[/QUOTE]
LOL! I thought they were sent to Portugal and Sicily.
2005-06-14 00:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle]LOL! I thought they were sent to Portugal and Sicily.[/QUOTE]
You can believe it or not believe it, but here is a link I found.
Personally, I am skeptical of their assertion of a Jewish history.
[url]http://shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/13-05.html[/url]
2005-06-14 02:32 | User Profile
The Jewish history in New Mexico has been documented by DNA studies:
[url]http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002111216_heritage07.html[/url]
The Jewish history in Texas is confirmed by my own experience here. What's to doubt?
[url]http://parentseyes.arizona.edu/bloom/sjhart.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.cryptojews.com/Ornish.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.saudades.org/longoria.html[/url]
I know Longorias personally.
[QUOTE][url]http://www.jewishgen.org/infofiles/sefard5.htm[/url]
MEXICAN SEPHARDIC SOURCES. Keep in mind that Monterrey, and the state of Nuevo Leon, was settled by 695 Jewish families escaping the Inquisition in Mexico City. Texas was formerly part of Nuevo Leon. Also, Alonso de Leon, son of the governor of N.L. who lived in Monclova, was from a family who lost several members in the Inquisition. He led 11 expeditions into Texas to find La Salle's Fort St. Louis on Garcitas Creek, the last in 1691. Mexican Sephardic sources:
Anything by Israel Cavazos Garza
Richard G. Santos, "Sephardic Jews and the Mexican Americans of Texas," (copy at UT Austin).
Rodolfo Gonzalez de la Garza, "La Inquisicion en Monclova a Medianos del Siglo XVIII," Estudios de Historia del Noreste (Monterrey, N.L., 1972).
Ricardo Elizondo Elizondo, "Los sefarditas en nuevo leon: reminiscencias en el folklore" (Monterrey, N.L., Cuadernos del Archivo: March 1987).
Julio Caro Baroja, Inquisicion, Brujeria y Criptojudaismo, Tercera Edicion (Mexico, Ariel: 1974).
Eugenio del Hoyo, Historia del Nuevo Reino de Leon 1574-1723, Colleccion Serie de historia, Instituto Tecnologico y de Estudios Superiores de Monterrey (1972).
Vito Alessio Robles, La Juderia de Monterrey (Mexico, Bosquejos Historicos: 1938).
The American Jewish Historical Society holds trial records of the Mexican Inquisition. The manuscript collection [I-3], consists of 23 'procesos' (transcripts of trials) which took place 1572-1772, from the Mexican National Archives. Contact: Reference Department, American Jewish Historical Society, 15 West 16th Street, New York, NY 10011, Phone: (212) 294-6160; fax: (212) 294-6161.[/QUOTE]
2005-06-14 03:30 | User Profile
DNA, Jews, Mexicans????????? Hummmmmmmmmm does the DNA shows that the Mexicans are the lost 10th tribe?.......tune in next week when the new news will be that the Native Americans Indians are the number nine lost tribe.
I wonder how many Mexicans the Jews will convince to go to the state of Israel, the Jews can always use someone to take care of their gardens and their brats.
2005-06-14 05:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ponce]DNA, Jews, Mexicans????????? Hummmmmmmmmm does the DNA shows that the Mexicans are the lost 10th tribe?.......tune in next week when the new news will be that the Native Americans Indians are the number nine lost tribe.
I wonder how many Mexicans the Jews will convince to go to the state of Israel, the Jews can always use someone to take care of their gardens and their brats.[/QUOTE] I was in Laredo a couple of years ago. The Hispanic girl who waited on us at the restaurant was wearing a star of David, not a cross as is usual down in these parts. I asked her about that, being surprised to see that in the Rio Grande Valley, and she told me that there were lots of Hispanic Jews in the Valley.
Learn something new every day.
2005-06-14 17:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]The Spanish in Santa Fe never let you forget it, either.
They really don't like being called Mexicans.
I remember in Church there they had a sort of Knights of Columbus analog called Los Caballeros de Vargas, de Vargas being the Spanish knight who founded Santa Fe by imperial decree around 1550, if memory serves. I think your 1610 date refers to a reconquista - I think it changed hands with the Indians a couple times.
Which makes Santa Fe by far one of the oldest European settlements in the United States.
I believe the only older settlement is St. Augustine, FLA.
BTW, Los Caballeros de Vargas have some really nifty ritual. They also have really cool uniforms - much, much cooler than the KoCs. Swords and the whole bit. Check it out if you're ever in the area.[/QUOTE]
People don't like being called Mexicans who aren't Mexicans. On the other hand, all who call themselves Spanish aren't Spanish either. :cowboy:
2005-06-14 17:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ponce]DNA, Jews, Mexicans????????? Hummmmmmmmmm does the DNA shows that the Mexicans are the lost 10th tribe?.......tune in next week when the new news will be that the Native Americans Indians are the number nine lost tribe.
I wonder how many Mexicans the Jews will convince to go to the state of Israel, the Jews can always use someone to take care of their gardens and their brats.[/QUOTE]
You are too late. The Mormons believe the Native Americans are one of the lost tribes of Israel.
2005-06-15 00:52 | User Profile
i wonder how long before they will get down to saying that the Cubans are also Jews (how low can you get).......in Cuba before the revolution there was about 5,000 Cuban Jews but thanks to Castro there are now 1,200, more or less, left over and that's still to many.