← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · friedrich braun
Thread ID: 18604 | Posts: 7 | Started: 2005-06-09
2005-06-09 19:51 | User Profile
War makes beasts of men (a must-see video)
Posted by Evan on June 8, 2005 @ 9:52AM
Watch this video (part 2 here) of an Arabic-speaking former soldier, Aidan Delgado, who faced abuse and attacks after filing for Conscientious Objector status. His compassionate and powerful talk includes detailed Geneva Convention violations and shockingly personal accounts of the inhumanity he witnessed and experienced, all of which, surprise surprise, is available for TV and print journalists in the Taguba Report, Red Cross reports or the stories of brave young men like him. A couple of samples are below, but the video is well worth your time.
On the classic phenomenon of dehumanizing the enemy via language. Haji: "In English, or in army usage it has the exact same meaning or connotation as 'gook' or 'charlie' or 'nigger.' it's very very prevalent in the military. only on a handful of occasions did i every hear iraqis referred to as iraqis. The rest of the time it was haji this and haji that...and all of this contributed to an atmosphere that brutalizes civilians and ultimately brutalized the prisoners that we had under our thumb at Abu Ghraib." On Abu Ghraib: "when i arrived there i kind've had the opinion that most guys did; you know, that these are the most dangerous people in Iraq, the most deadly criminals...they deserve all this harsh treatment they're receiving. That's what i thought when i got there. but serving at Abu Ghraib i got a chance to find out differently." As a result of the duty he'd been put on as punishment for filing for Conscientious Objector status he was privy to prisoner paperwork even guards hadn't seen: "What i found was absolutely stunning. I found that the majority of prisoners at Abu Ghraib hadn't committed any crimes against the coalition -- they hadn't committed violent crimes. They were at Abu Ghraib for petty theft, public drunkenness, forged coalition documents, impersonating a coalition officer, petty nonviolent offenses and they were inside Abu Ghraib with real murderers, real rapists, real insurgents. In addition, a large percentage of those at Abu Ghraib hadn't committed any offense at all. The military had a policy of random sweeps..."
[url]http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/2005/06/003950.html[/url]
2005-06-09 20:02 | User Profile
Braun,
Most of us don't condone the crap that went on at that prison. Some of us even think that the orders for that came from a higher authority and that these need to be thoroughly investigated. After all, we certainly don't wish for our army to resemble another that abused the hell out of millions of military prisoners and the civilian population from a certain eastern country.
As for nicknames for the opponents all armies do that.
2005-06-09 20:19 | User Profile
I don't object to the term "haji." Sticks and stones and so on.
Abusing prisoners is another matter. It's a cowardly, dishonorable activity you'd expect from the cocky little Jewish pussies of the Israeli military more than anyone else. I have little doubt that senior officers ordered it. That doesn't excuse the guards who actually carried out the abuse, though. They should be punished (and it looks like a few might be), but the leaders who ordered the abuse should get the longest prison sentences. That includes Rumsfeld. Fat chance, though.
2005-06-09 20:22 | User Profile
[B]After all, we certainly don't wish for our army to resemble another that abused the hell out of millions of military prisoners and the civilian population from a certain eastern country.[/B]
Oh I believe that Americans know a thing or two about abusing "the hell out of millions of military prisoners and the civilian population"; in fact, they never needed any lessons from anyone.
It's well known in Germany that the Soviets conducted themselves like gentlemen in Germany compared to what the Americans did.
What Americans are doing in Iraq is nothing new, the Yankees are just doing what comes naturally to them.
An example?
Eisenhower's German POW Death Camps - A US Guard's Story
By Martin Brech
[B]In Andernach about 50,000 prisoners of all ages were held in an open field surrounded by barbed wire. The women were kept in a separate enclosure I did not see until later. The men I guarded had no shelter and no blankets; many had no coats. They slept in the mud, wet and cold, with inadequate slit trenches for excrement. It was a cold, wet spring and their misery from exposure alone was evident.
Even more shocking was to see the prisoners throwing grass and weeds into a tin can containing a thin soup. They told me they did this to help ease their hunger pains. Quickly, they grew emaciated. Dysentery raged, and soon they were sleeping in their own excrement, too weak and crowded to reach the slit trenches. Many were begging for food, sickening and dying before our eyes. We had ample food and supplies, but did nothing to help them, including no medical assistance.
Outraged, I protested to my officers and was met with hostility or bland indifference. When pressed, they explained they were under strict orders from "higher up." No officer would dare do this to 50,000 men if he felt that it was "out of line," leaving him open to charges...[/B]
...
[B]Hunger made German women more "available," but despite this, rape was prevalent and often accompanied by additional violence. In particular I remember an eighteen-year old woman who had the side of her faced smashed with a rifle butt and was then raped by two G.I.s. Even the French complained that the rapes, looting and drunken destructiveness on the part of our troops was excessive. In Le Havre, we'd been given booklets warning us that the German soldiers had maintained a high standard of behavior with French civilians who were peaceful, and that we should do the same. In this we failed miserably. [/B]
...
The Journal of Historical Review Vol. 10, No. 2, pp. 161-166.
2005-06-09 20:28 | User Profile
[B]Comment
From Stephen R. 1-29-2
I heard this kind of story repeatedly in the late 1940's. Some were much worse as to numbers involved. I was super patriotic, and told a kid his relative was a liar.
One Sunday, he came to my house and got me, and I heard a drunken discourse from his mothers'scarey boyfriend whohad been a GI guard. He became hysterical talking about burying 100's per day. I have no doubt this was true. He was with some kind of roving death squad. They arrived at the German POW camps late in 1945, took selected prisoners from shelters to open fields in mid-Winter. And watched them in shifts until they were dead. [/B]
2005-06-09 20:38 | User Profile
Braun,
The things the U.S. did pale in comparison with what your nation did. For some reason I really don't believe you care about these people in Iraq for one minute. For you it is nothing more than to holler "you Americans! Blah, blah, blah." In the past I have recognized the WW I and WW II didn't do a damn thing for our nations. I've also noted that most Germans are decent people. You, on the other hand, seem to think that those of us alive today own you something. You remind me of the Jews. I don't owe you a damn thing and furthermore, get over it. You lost. If your country is in the state of degradation that it is today it is their own damn fault. They could be like most of my fellow Southerners and refuse to think of themselves as the scum of the earth. Your people could be the same way while still finding a way to get along with the rest of us. It is quite possible to respect those things that made both nations great at one time. I do it all the time. You should do the same.
Anyway, I'm tired of your self pity and your constant trolling. Off to the disciplinary barracks at the "Cyber Dachau" with you. You won't be missed by most of us.
2005-06-09 23:19 | User Profile
Sertorius,
Braun's a smart guy and a good writer and his point of view is valid if unpopular. Isn't it true that southrons in general have expended a goodly number of written words denouncing their treatment by Sherman, and after the conclusion of hostilities their treatment by Yankee occupying forces and the scurulous activities of carpet baggers? Hopefully both the South [I]and[/I] Germany will rise again.