← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Otto Skorzeny
Thread ID: 18421 | Posts: 5 | Started: 2005-05-27
2005-05-27 16:50 | User Profile
There was a big stink about two years ago about Hillel on Concordia University in Montreal recruiting for Mahal 2000. What is Mahal 2000? It's the arm of the Israeli defense forces that recruits foreign jews to serve in the IDF. The student union on Concordia kicked Hillel off campus because they were violating a Canadian federal law, the Foreign Recruitment Act of 1937. I believe the outcome of the story is that some powerful jewish lawyers threatened to sue the student union and university, and hillel slithered back on campus. There are a number of young American jews who serve in the IDF through Mahal 2000. My question is, don't you loose your American citizenship if you serve in a foreign army? Or again is this another special relationship issue? Having these scumbags coming back to America is really worrying. Basically, if the United States ever gets into a shooting war with the Israelis, enemy special operating forces are on American soil to attack nuclear installations, communication and transportation infrastructure and terrorize the population. It's enlightening to read the discussion board on the Mahal 2000 website, basically a bunch of young American jews saying how tough they are that they wouldn't join the American armed forces because they 'could care less about America' and that America's fight against world communism wasn't of concern to the jews. [url="http://www.mahal2000.com/"]http://www.mahal2000.com/[/url]
2005-05-27 17:00 | User Profile
My question is, don't you loose your American citizenship if you serve in a foreign army?
That's a darn good question and I'm still scratching my head over it. You'll have to ask the board's edward gibbon because he's done a lot more research into this.
2005-05-27 19:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MadScienceType]That's a darn good question and I'm still scratching my head over it. You'll have to ask the board's edward gibbon because he's done a lot more research into this.[/QUOTE]At one time I believe citizenship was lost, but I suspect service in a foreign army does not cause a forfeit of American citizenship now - another sigh of our decadence. Perhaps service with the Palestinians would cause a stink, but I do not know.
2005-05-27 20:38 | User Profile
[size=2][url="http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/cns/2004-05-03/755.asp"]http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/cns/2004-05-03/755.asp[/url][/size]
**[size=2]American Jews seek to fight a different war[/size] **
By Mark Binks
During spring break, while thousands of young American college kids were jetting off to the sun-drenched beaches of Cancun and Florida, Dan Gross was learning how to kill and avoid being killed in the service of a foreign army. Gross is so dedicated to his mission that he is prepared to risk his U.S. citizenship to complete it.
The 21-year-old Gross, who grew up in the seaside town of Marblehead, Mass., is taking a break from his studies at Williams College and has chosen to serve in the Israel Defense Force (IDF) under a program called Mahal2000. Avi Naor founded the program in 1998 as a way to recruit non-Israeli Jews worldwide. It's named in tribute to the Machal, a Hebrew word given to the 3,500 foreign men and women who came to Israel's aid during its War of Independence in 1948.
With the exception of some religious groups, a maximum of three years of military service (two for women) is compulsory for all native-born Israelis starting at the age of 18. Mahal2000 seeks to give young Jews from other countries a similar opportunity while they decide whether to settle permanently in Israel.
"My primary reason is my sense of duty toward Israel, Jews and God," says Gross. "But I see the experience as something that will help me understand Israel and whether it's a place where I'd like to live as well."
Cyberspace has allowed people to sign up for military service via Mahal2000's funky flash-animated Web site, which features a Moby-esque soundtrack and pictures of healthy-looking, well- tanned, happy young men and women in various heroic poses. All this serves to conjure up the impression that there is still adventure to be had in fighting for a cause.
"I wanted to give people a chance to come and explore their feelings about Israel," Naor says. Naor runs Mahal2000 out of Tel Aviv with his own money and the occasional donation from private contributors. Naor says that for him the number of recruits is not important, but around 50-70 young men and women from all over the world enter the IDF each year through his program.
"About, maybe, 30 percent are from the United States and Canada," says Naor, adding proudly, "We have had a Jew from Bosnia and a Jew from Zimbabwe." If they pass the IDF medical exam, recruits serve in full combat units in all spheres of Israel's territorial interests -- including the occupied territories -- for a period of 14 and 1/2 months.
Like all Mahal2000 recruits, Gross spent his first few weeks in Israel getting together with other new recruits, attending Hebrew language school and meeting with Naor in Tel Aviv. Gross was officially drafted into the IDF on March 7 and is still in basic combat training, which includes four and a half months of arms training, first aid, close combat, self defense, navigation, camouflage and biological weapons defense. After he's equipped with the skills to stay alive, he starts a nine-month active combat service in the IDF.
But snipers' bullets, suicide bombers and biological weapons may be the least of Gross' problems in the long run. The Mahal2000 Web site carries a disclaimer that advises recruits to check the legality of volunteering for military service under their own country's laws.
As stated on U.S. passports, technically Americans can lose their citizenship either by swearing alligiance to a foreign power or serving in its army. As a practical matter, however, when it comes to serving in the Israeli army, the actual policy seems to be "don't ask, don't tell."
Asked about the matter in an email, Michael J. Belgrade, the vice consul at the U.S. Embassy in Tel Aviv, said there was no policy that encouraged aggressive questioning of U.S. citizens in this regard. "There are a number of U.S. citizens who are dual nationals with Israel and serve in Israel's military," he said. "I do not recall any diplomatic or legal situation that arose due to the Mahal program."
What's more, according to Naor, the IDF does not press Mahal2000 recruits to make any declarations that might get them into trouble with their own governments. "I think they do not have to swear allegiance to Israel if they don't want to," says Naor. "The IDF will give you papers saying you are an Israeli and have to serve under law if needed."
Gross, a fervent Zionist, believes that Israel is of central importance to all Jews around the world whether religious or not. "My own parents faced persecution for their ethnic heritage in the USSR," he says. Gross feels that nowadays anti-Semitism is as strong as it's ever been in Europe since the end of World War II.
"My family is uniformly against my decision," he says. "All of my relatives support Israel, but those I've talked to see my decision as foolhardy and sometimes even irresponsible." After careful consideration of his family's opposition, Gross chose to go the extra mile, or in his case the extra few thousand miles to serve his cause.
2005-05-27 21:06 | User Profile
[B]You will loose your American citizenship if the foreign army that you joined is or will be fighting the United States.[/B]
But of course the Jewish situation is unique because all Jews are Israelis first and American second.......how do I know this? simple, I have asked of every Jew that I have ever known the following " if the president of the US orders you to fight against the state of Israel would you do it?" and the answer is always "NO".