← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Gabrielle
Thread ID: 18268 | Posts: 44 | Started: 2005-05-16
2005-05-16 23:12 | User Profile
'Newsweek' retracts story that sparked deadly violence '
"NEW YORK (AP) ââ¬â Newsweek magazine, under fire for a publishing story that led to deadly protests in Afghanistan, said Monday it was retracting its report that a military probe had found evidence of desecration of the Koran by U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo Bay. Earlier Monday, presidential spokesman Scott McClellan had criticized Newsweek's initial response to the incident, saying it was "puzzling." (Video: Newsweek apologizes)
Newsweek had reported in its issue dated May 9 that U.S. military investigators had found evidence that interrogators placed copies of Islam's holy book in washrooms and had flushed one down the toilet to get inmates to talk.
Newsweek acknowledged problems with the story and its editor, Mark Whitaker, apologized in an editor's note in this week's edition. The accusations spawned protests in Afghanistan that left 15 dead and scores injured.
Whitaker wrote in an editor's note that "We regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst."
But after the White House criticized Newsweek's response to the story, Whitaker released a statement later Monday through a spokesman saying the magazine was retracting the story.
"Based on what we know now, we are retracting our original story that an internal military investigation had uncovered Koran abuse at Guantanamo Bay," Whitaker said."
[url]http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-15-afghan-protests_x.htm[/url]
"NEW YORK May 15, 2005 ââ¬â Newsweek magazine has apologized for errors in a story alleging that interrogators at the U.S. detention center in Guantanamo Bay desecrated the Quran, saying it would re-examine the accusations, which sparked outrage and deadly protests in Afghanistan.
Fifteen people died and scores were injured in violence between protesters and security forces, prompting U.S. promises to investigate the allegations. After Muslim leaders in several countries assailed the U.S. over the allegations, Pentagon officials blamed Newsweek for the flare-up and accused it of "irresponsible" reporting.
[url]http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=760253[/url]
"Protests erupted Tuesday after Newsweek magazine reported in its May 9 edition that interrogators at the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, placed Qurans in washrooms to unsettle suspects and "flushed a holy book down the toilet."
The U.S. news magazine, Newsweek, is apologizing for possible errors in a story it ran earlier this month, which included allegations that U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo Bay desecrated the Koran. The accusations sparked protests in South Asia that left 17 people dead and many more injured.
Newsweek's Washington Bureau Chief Dan Klaidman told CBS there were factual errors in a story run by his magazine in last week's edition.
Afghan university students march in Kabul last week
"What we are walking away from, where we think we made the mistake, is the allegation that a soldier, a prison guard, took the Koran and tried to flush it down the toilet, and that (U.S.) military investigators confirmed that that happened," Mr. Klaidman says."
[url]http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-05-16-voa14.cfm[/url]
**Why do you think an article like that would have been printed? It wouldn't have been for the very reason of infuriating and insighting anger and hate against Americans, would it? It wouldn't have been to cause more problems for Bush now, would it have? Of course not...what a silly thought...
I wonder how many more lives will be lost (instead of us just getting out of there)...why do people still support the left? Haven't they learned yet that they're nothing but Anti-American liars?!**
2005-05-17 04:30 | User Profile
Gabrielle,
Too bad the Neocons and their useful idiots can't find the time to show outrage over this: [URL=http://downingstreetmemo.com/whycare.html]http://downingstreetmemo.com/whycare.html[/URL] I reckon they didn't want to embarrass the person who represents "the cult of personality" in post modern America- Bush.
2005-05-17 11:05 | User Profile
[font=Arial][size=4]Bush Proposes Legal Status for Immigrant Labor ** [/size]**Workers Could Stay Six Years or More [/font]
[size=2]By Mike Allen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, January 8, 2004; Page A01 [/size]
Taking on an issue he shelved after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, Bush proposed a program that would make the 8 million undocumented immigrants in the United States eligible for temporary legal status for at least six years, as long as they are employed. But it would not automatically put them on a path to obtaining citizenship or even permanent resident status.
[color=#990000]CONTINUED[/color]
[url="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63428-2004Jan7.html"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A63428-2004Jan7.html[/url]
2005-05-17 13:18 | User Profile
"Faulty"?! Yeah, right. Most likely, there was nothing "faulty" about the Newsweek story at all. It was probably 100% accurate. It was retracted only under pressure from the Neo-Jacobins in the Bush administration.
"Koran abuse"?! I had to laugh at the news that Muslim savages rioted and murdered after hearing a copy of the Koran was "flushed down the toilet." Wait 'til they hear what I want to do to it... :wink:
2005-05-17 13:35 | User Profile
At some point we, as a nation, must stop "defending to death their right to tell such lies" and give libel laws teeth. Where is the downside to that?
Was not the original idea behind the protection of Free Speech, and the Free Press, the right to tell The Truth openly? How is speaking and printing falsehood protected by the First Ammendment? Maybe I don't understand the Constitution.
The Brits seem to have a better handle on the libel piece.
[QUOTE=Gabrielle]'Newsweek' retracts story that sparked deadly violence '
"NEW YORK (AP) ââ¬â Newsweek magazine, under fire for a publishing story that led to deadly protests in Afghanistan, said Monday it was retracting its report that a military probe had found evidence of desecration of the Koran by U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo Bay. Earlier Monday, presidential spokesman Scott McClellan had criticized Newsweek's initial response to the incident, saying it was "puzzling." (Video: Newsweek apologizes)
Newsweek had reported in its issue dated May 9 that U.S. military investigators had found evidence that interrogators placed copies of Islam's holy book in washrooms and had flushed one down the toilet to get inmates to talk.
Newsweek acknowledged problems with the story and its editor, Mark Whitaker, apologized in an editor's note in this week's edition. The accusations spawned protests in Afghanistan that left 15 dead and scores injured.
Whitaker wrote in an editor's note that "We regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst."
But after the White House criticized Newsweek's response to the story, Whitaker released a statement later Monday through a spokesman saying the magazine was retracting the story.
"Based on what we know now, we are retracting our original story that an internal military investigation had uncovered Koran abuse at Guantanamo Bay," Whitaker said."
[url="http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-15-afghan-protests_x.htm"]http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-05-15-afghan-protests_x.htm[/url]
"NEW YORK May 15, 2005 ââ¬â Newsweek magazine has apologized for errors in a story alleging that interrogators at the U.S. detention center in Guantanamo Bay desecrated the Quran, saying it would re-examine the accusations, which sparked outrage and deadly protests in Afghanistan.
Fifteen people died and scores were injured in violence between protesters and security forces, prompting U.S. promises to investigate the allegations. After Muslim leaders in several countries assailed the U.S. over the allegations, Pentagon officials blamed Newsweek for the flare-up and accused it of "irresponsible" reporting.
[url="http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=760253"]http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=760253[/url]
"Protests erupted Tuesday after Newsweek magazine reported in its May 9 edition that interrogators at the U.S. Navy base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, placed Qurans in washrooms to unsettle suspects and "flushed a holy book down the toilet."
The U.S. news magazine, Newsweek, is apologizing for possible errors in a story it ran earlier this month, which included allegations that U.S. interrogators at Guantanamo Bay desecrated the Koran. The accusations sparked protests in South Asia that left 17 people dead and many more injured.
Newsweek's Washington Bureau Chief Dan Klaidman told CBS there were factual errors in a story run by his magazine in last week's edition. Afghan university students march in Kabul last week
"What we are walking away from, where we think we made the mistake, is the allegation that a soldier, a prison guard, took the Koran and tried to flush it down the toilet, and that (U.S.) military investigators confirmed that that happened," Mr. Klaidman says."
[url="http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-05-16-voa14.cfm"]http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-05-16-voa14.cfm[/url]
Why do you think an article like that would have been printed? It wouldn't have been for the very reason of infuriating and insighting anger and hate against Americans, would it? It wouldn't have been to cause more problems for Bush now, would it have? Of course not...what a silly thought...
I wonder how many more lives will be lost (instead of us just getting out of there)...why do people still support the left? Haven't they learned yet that they're nothing but Anti-American liars?![/QUOTE]
2005-05-17 14:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Stuka]"Faulty"?! Yeah, right. Most likely, there was nothing "faulty" about the Newsweek story at all. It was probably 100% accurate. It was retracted only under pressure from the Neo-Jacobins in the Bush administration.
"Koran abuse"?! I had to laugh at the news that Muslim savages rioted and murdered after hearing a copy of the Koran was "flushed down the toilet." Wait 'til they hear what I want to do to it... :wink:[/QUOTE]
I am with you Stuka but what would you like to do to the Koran and why?
You are against the "Neo-Jacobins" like I am and yet you made that comment about the Koran just like they would.
Before you want to destroy a "certain" class of people or their religion you must have a reason for doing so and up till now what the Arabs are doing to us is only what we asked for, and no they didn't do 9/11.
2005-05-17 14:26 | User Profile
You guys are helpless!
2005-05-17 15:03 | User Profile
Apparently this story had been making the rounds for a while before Newsweek actually reported it, and they decided to do so because they had a source in the US intelligence apparatus that confirmed it. After the riots in 'peaceful, democratic' Afghanistan and 'our partner in the War on Terror' Pakistan, the White House began to put pressure on Newsweek to disavow the story, and (entirely coincidentally, I'm sure) Newsweek's intelligence source then said he could no longer confirm the story. I'm inclined to believe the story is true, and that it has been retracted only because of political pressure. Furthermore, I can guarantee that that is what the Muslim world will believe.
2005-05-17 15:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]Furthermore, I can guarantee that that is what the Muslim world will believe.[/QUOTE] Indeed, the truth need not be an issue. That ground has been fertilized for some time, any seed or weed will sprout. Spend a few months watching Al Jazira. It is instructive.
I find troubling the "single anonymous source" procedure. Most professional journalists (sorry, is that an oxymoron these days?) try to corroborate their leads. Oh, yeah, Deep Throat. There's the excuse they all use. What was I thinking?
2005-05-17 18:40 | User Profile
Interesting how the US Government openly tells the Press to "watch what you say" or forces the Press to censor certain uncomfortable truths about the "War on Terror". I mean, didn't the Press carry enough water for the Neocons during 9/11 and the wars on Afghanistan and Iraq?
And Jorge Boooosh has the audacity to claim Putin is "rolling back democracy" in Russia. What a joke.
2005-05-17 18:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Stuka]"Faulty"?! Yeah, right. Most likely, there was nothing "faulty" about the Newsweek story at all. It was probably 100% accurate. It was retracted only under pressure from the Neo-Jacobins in the Bush administration.[/QUOTE]
That's my take on it.
2005-05-17 19:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE]I mean, didn't the Press carry enough water for the Neocons during 9/11 and the wars on Afghanistan and Iraq?[/QUOTE] XM,
Not according to Limbaugh. According to him this is just part of an ongoing attack by "Liberals and Democrats" on Christianity who are really a lot more comfortable with Muslims. I know, that doesn't make a damn bit of sense except to the brain dead dittoheads. He even pointed out that [I]Newsweek[/I] is owned by the [I]Washington Post[/I]!, :eek: while failing to mention that the [I]Post[/I] supported Bush in the War for Israel and Oil. I'm sure that this was just a mistake and not a lie, not from good ol' El Rushbo.
2005-05-17 20:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]XM,
Not according to Limbaugh. According to him this is just part of an ongoing attack by "Liberals and Democrats" on Christianity who are really a lot more comfortable with Muslims. I know, that doesn't make a damn bit of sense except to the brain dead dittoheads. He even pointed out that [I]Newsweek[/I] is owned by the [I]Washington Post[/I]!, :eek: while failing to mention that the [I]Post[/I] supported Bush in the War for Israel and Oil. I'm sure that this was just a mistake and not a lie, not from good ol' El Rushbo.[/QUOTE]
Sert, how true. The Neocons and their Shilling Goys have exposed themselves as walking contradictions. I've gotta chuckle when I hear Foxdroid co-workers rant that the New York Times is a "liberal rag" while at the same time the NYT features pro-war/pro-Israel chickenhawk waterboys like Tom Friedman and David Brooks huffing about American "exceptionalism".
I'm just curious about the Newsweek article about the desecration of the Koran at Guantanamo, which I'm sure is true. It was like those photographers months back that released pictures of flag-draped coffins of US GI's and then were promptly fired. It's like Dan Rather doing a story on Jorge's well-known abysmal military record and then a huge controversy results where Rather "retires" early and 4 other people get fired. I see a similiar pattern at work with the current Newsweek story.
The Foxdroids support 100% of the US-Zionist projects yet clamor that the media is dominated by "liberals" while those same "liberals" support the same projects all the while failing to see the violation of the 1st Amendment's Freedom of the Press by government interference. Am I on to something here??
2005-05-17 20:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]Apparently this story had been making the rounds for a while before Newsweek actually reported it, and they decided to do so because they had a source in the US intelligence apparatus that confirmed it. After the riots in 'peaceful, democratic' Afghanistan and 'our partner in the War on Terror' Pakistan, the White House began to put pressure on Newsweek to disavow the story, and (entirely coincidentally, I'm sure) Newsweek's intelligence source then said he could no longer confirm the story. I'm inclined to believe the story is true, and that it has been retracted only because of political pressure. Furthermore, I can guarantee that that is what the Muslim world will believe.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. And just what is meant by "Faulty"?
Like the story on Bush Junior's desertion from his National Guard duty, this item may be quashed in the U.S. jackal press but its truthfulness is not at issue.
These are the same sadistic PsyOps thugs who smeared women soldiers' mentrual blood on the faces of devout Islamic prisoners..
2005-05-17 21:47 | User Profile
It just hit me, I read everything all over again (including my own) and what I saw is the main problem and that is that as long as everyone is going their own way this will continue as is.
As Germany did the US needs someone (like Herr Hitler) we all can trust in order to make us into one country once again, the problem is that no one trust no one so everyone is going their own way.
Interesting that the same thing is going on in Iraq, Sadam (good or bad) united the people but now the US is trying to disperse everyone into going their on way and that will make it easier for them to control the country.
I will volunteer for the job, first thing first 1- no more aid for the state of Israel 2- no more jobs going overseas 3- 25% tax on everything coming from overseas 4-better schools programs 5-leave the Middle East and make friends with the Arabs 6- secure social security 7-secure all border to the US 8- better treatment for veterans 9-clean up the government (no more cushie jobs) 10-make friends with Canada once again 11- do more to prevent China from taking over our part of the world 12- get rid of the Fed and make the dollar strong once again .......anyway, that's part of my Xmas "I wish" list.
2005-05-17 22:17 | User Profile
Even if your conspiracy theories are truth, why the heck did Newsweek report that? What harm was done if Americans really desecrated a Koran?? Who cares?! Surely they knew the crazy Muslims would freak out if they heard that the Americans were desecrating their ââ¬Åholy book.ââ¬Â Not only would they freak out, but they would also hate Americans even moreââ¬Â¦ SO, the sum good of reporting that (whether it was true or not) wasââ¬Â¦? Nothing. But what was all the harm that reporting it (true or not) caused? Lots and lotsââ¬Â¦ Am I the only one who sees that? Are you all too blind to see whatââ¬â¢s right before your eyes?!
You guys are like foolish young college students; the media is playing you just like pianos. You are so full of media-instilled hatred of Bush that you will believe anything.
[img]http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/newsweek.quran/story.sunday.protest.jpg[/img]
"At least 15 people were killed and dozens injured last week when thousands of demonstrators marched in Afghanistan and other parts of the Muslim world, officials and eyewitnesses said."
"People are dying. They are burning American flags. Our forces are in danger," he told CNN."
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/newsweek.quran/index.html[/url]
2005-05-17 23:02 | User Profile
I too reject Islam as a false religion. I also consider the Islamic world a kind of perennial enemy of European civilization. However, it is not in the best interests of the United States to go on a crusade against the Moslem world at this time. For more or less a hundred years Islam was a "sleeping giant." There, of course, have always been problems in the Balkans and on the Western border of the Turkish Empire, but these have been pretty much sideshows in modern times. Turkey is still very much the sick man of Europe and the King of Morroco appears to have no interest in opening up a colonial capital in Madrid. Idiotic European immigration laws are another matter entirely.
It was the West's support of Israel beginning in 1948 that soured our relations with the Islamic world. At first, the struggle against Zionism was fought by Arab Nationalists, now it is the Islamists that carry on the defensive war. It was the Zionist enterprise that woke the sleeping giant. The Jews will fight to the last Christian gentile stooge.
If people think that there is something to be gained by going to war against the entire Islamic world then they are crazy. If they think we can win a war by torturing and humiliating Islamic men and wiping their backsides with the Koran, then they are truly certifiable. To go to war with any country deemed a potential threat is madness.
If necessary, I will go to war to fight against Islam in defense of the West. I will not, however, kill, oppress or humiliate Moslems as a catspaw or stooge of the Jews. Let the Yids fight their own battles!
2005-05-17 23:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE] If people think that there is something to be gained by going to war against the entire Islamic world then they are crazy.[/QUOTE] They're called "dispensationalists" and Zionists.
2005-05-18 01:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CornCod]I too reject Islam as a false religion. I also consider the Islamic world a kind of perennial enemy of European civilization. However, it is not in the best interests of the United States to go on a crusade against the Moslem world at this time. [/QUOTE]Maybe it's just me, but I've always thought that a good, just war involving race & culture would help bring issues into the open, force fence-sitting whites to finally choose sides, and toughen up soft, decadent white youth. There's no room for worrying about multiculturalism, tolerance, and diversity when the very survival of your people and society is at stake. God forgive me for saying so, but I think a period of suffering might do our people & civilization some good.
[QUOTE] It was the West's support of Israel beginning in 1948 that soured our relations with the Islamic world. ![/QUOTE]I agree with you about the consequences for supporting Israel, but by the word 'our' do you mean the US, or the West in general? Because as you know the history of relations between Christendom and Islam is a long, bloody one: Tours in 732, Siege of Vienna in 1529, Siege of Malta 1565, Battle of Lepanto in 1571, Battle of Vienna in 1683. Not to mention the centuries that Spaniards and Balkan peoples spent in dhimmitude, under the Muslim boot.
[QUOTE] If necessary, I will go to war to fight against Islam in defense of the West. I will not, however, kill, oppress or humiliate Moslems as a catspaw or stooge of the Jews. Let the Yids fight their own battles![/QUOTE]Agreed. Actually, I would happily go to war to fight, in good conscience, both the muslims and the yids in defense of the West. No need to discriminate or play favourites here. Both groups are civilizational enemies.
2005-05-18 01:18 | User Profile
Many other sources confirm the Mossad-inspired desecration of the Koran to humiliate and break the morale of kidnapped Muslim prisoners:
From [url]http://www.antiwar.com[/url]
May 16, 2005
Newsweek Got Gitmo Right
by Calgacus
Contrary to White House spin, the allegations of religious desecration at Guantanamo published by Newsweek on May 9, 2005, are common among ex-prisoners and have been widely reported outside the United States. Several former detainees at the Guantanamo and Bagram prisons have reported instances of their handlers sitting or standing on the Koran, throwing or kicking it in toilets, and urinating on it. Prior to the Newsweek article, the New York Times reported a Guantanamo insider asserting that the commander of the facility was compelled by prisoner protests to address the problem and issue an apology.
One such incident (during which the Koran was allegedly thrown in a pile and stepped on) prompted a hunger strike among Guantanamo detainees in March 2002. Regarding this, the New York Times in a May 1, 2005, article interviewed a former detainee, Nasser Nijer Naser al-Mutairi, who said the protest ended with a senior officer delivering an apology to the entire camp. And the Times reports: "A former interrogator at Guantanamo, in an interview with the Times, confirmed the accounts of the hunger strikes, including the public expression of regret over the treatment of the Korans." (Neil A. Lewis and Eric Schmitt, "Inquiry Finds Abuses at Guantanamo Bay," New York Times, May 1, 2005.)
The hunger strike and apology story is also confirmed by another former detainee, Shafiq Rasul, interviewed by the UK Guardian in 2003 (James Meek, "The People the Law Forgot," Dec. 3, 2003). It was also confirmed by former prisoner Jamal al-Harith in an interview with the Daily Mirror (Rosa Prince and Gary Jones, "My Hell in Camp X-Ray," Daily Mirror, March 12, 2004).
The toilet incident was reported in the Washington Post in a 2003 interview with a former detainee from Afghanistan:
"Ehsannullah, 29, said American soldiers who initially questioned him in Kandahar before shipping him to Guantanamo hit him and taunted him by dumping the Koran in a toilet. 'It was a very bad situation for us,' said Ehsannullah, who comes from the home region of the Taliban leader, Mohammad Omar. 'We cried so much and shouted, "Please do not do that to the Holy Koran."' (Marc Kaufman and April Witt, "Out of Legal Limbo, Some Tell of Mistreatment," Washington Post, March 26, 2003.)
Also citing the toilet incident is testimony by Asif Iqbal, a former Guantanamo detainee who was released to British custody in March 2004 and subsequently freed without charge:
"The behavior of the guards towards our religious practices as well as the Koran was also, in my view, designed to cause us as much distress as possible. They would kick the Koran, throw it into the toilet, and generally disrespect it." (Center for Constitutional Rights [.pdf], Aug. 4, 2004.)
The claim that U.S. troops at Bagram prison in Afghanistan urinated on the Koran was made by former detainee Mohamed Mazouz, a Moroccan, as reported in the Moroccan newspaper, La Gazette du Maroc. (Abdelhak Najib, "Les Américains pissaient sur le Coran et abusaient de nous sexuellement," April 12, 2005.) An English translation is available on the Cage Prisoners site (which describes itself as a "nonsectarian Islamic human rights Web site").
Tarek Derghoul, another of the British detainees, similarly cites instances of Koran desecration in an interview with Cage Prisoners.
Desecration of the Koran was also mentioned by former Guantanamo detainee Abdul Rahim Muslim Dost and reported by the BBC in early May 2005. (Haroon Rashid, "Ex-Inmates Share Guantanamo Ordeal," May 2, 2005.)
Calgacus has been employed as a researcher in the national security field for 20 years.
No doubt that Junior's thugs are attempting to quash this true story--let only mouth-breathing FReakers be deceived.
2005-05-18 11:58 | User Profile
"Newsweek Lied, People Died Michael Williams International Affairs
This time the get-America mentality of the mainstream media has cost dozens of people their lives.
But it should be realized that the riots weren't just "predictable", they were intended. If the woman who rejected Ted Bundy was purposefully manipulating him to commit murder, she would bear some responsibility. The thing about responsibility is that by putting some blame on Newsweek we don't have to lessen the blame we put on the rioters -- it isn't a zero-sum game.
The BBC is reporting that the Americans are at it again - mercilessly torturing the ââ¬Åinnocent detaineesââ¬Â of Guantanamo Bay. Even despite the panty-waist PC strictures placed on interrogations, the evil Americans have found a way to subvert the law and gasp horribly scar the gentle souls of the Muslim prisoners!!! Pakistani officials say they are ââ¬Ådeeply dismayedââ¬Â over reports that the Koran was desecrated at the US detention facility in Guantanamo Bay. The latest edition of the American Newsweek magazine said such tactics were used to rattle suspects.
And something tells me this one is going to be bigger than Rather. There was something goofy and absurd about the whole CBS memo mess ââ¬â their ludicrous claim of Burkett as an ââ¬Ëunimpeachable source,ââ¬â¢ the tale of memos passed at a rodeo, Ratherââ¬â¢s stubborn insistence that 1972 typewriters could perfectly match Microsoft Word default settings. This latest journalistic train wreck is just ugly. Dead Afghans, calls for jihad, threats of more violence, Islamists rejecting the Newsweek retractionââ¬Â¦ This can still get worse, and there will be no laughs in this one.
[url]http://www.mwilliams.info/archives/005692.php[/url]
2005-05-18 12:12 | User Profile
People died, and U.S. military and diplomatic efforts were damaged, because -- let's be clear here -- Newsweek was too anxious to get out a story that would make the Bush Administration and the military look bad.
Newsweek retracts, the press attacks
"Newsweek has retracted its report, which it now says it can't back up, about Koran-flushing at Guantanamo. Here's what David Gergen said on Hardball:
MATTHEWS: David Gergen, let me ask you about this. This is a classic for journalism school, of course, but also political science, because here we have a war we're fighting which isn't exactly a trench war or a war of firepower. It's a war of religion and culture. And this is perfect ammo for the enemy.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Absolutely.
And it has been exploited by the enemy. It was seized upon. And it was translated and then seized upon by people who are anti-American. And it has been used for their purposes to foment all this violence. But that does not let "Newsweek" off the hook, nor does it let the individual who gave them the story off the hook.
That's right. And what's interesting is that the Newsweek folks don't seem to have understood what they were playing with.
Newsweek's Mark Whitaker explained: ** "I suppose you could say we should have foreseen the consequences of the report, but we didn't."**
To them, this was a minor domestic "gotcha" story, a way to needle the Administration with some bad news. It blew up in their faces.
But the press as a whole, as displayed at today's press briefing, has responded by demonstrating the very bias and hostility that everyone has come to associate with their behavior. My favorite was this question for White House Press Secretary McClellan: "Q: With respect, who made you the editor of Newsweek?"
This from a member of an industry that is happy to tell everyone else how they should run their businesses, wars, and lives. Humility would play better than arrogance about now. Gergen went on to say that he thinks we may be at a "tipping point" of precipitous decline in respect for the news media. This sort of conduct won't help."
[url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3395977/[/url]
2005-05-18 12:34 | User Profile
Flushing Newsweek
By David Wallace-Wells
Posted Monday, May 16, 2005, at 4:33 PM PT
Flushing Newsweek: Newsweek retreated Sunday from a report in its May 9 issue "that American guards at the detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, had committed infractions in trying to get terror suspects to talk, including in one case flushing a Qur'an down a toilet." Today, the magazine officially retracted the story, which has been cited as a precipitating cause of the violent anti-American riots that swept across Afghanistan last week, killing at least 15. Acknowledging that the reporters' original source had since backed away from the story, Editor Mark Whitaker wrote, "we regret that we got any part of our story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in its midst." (Both Slate and Newsweek are owned by the Washington Post Co.)
"History may see Newsweek's fatal 'Koran flushing' story as the US press' Abu Ghraib," writes novelist and military columnist Austin Bay. "Here's the connection: globe-girdling technology has once again amplified foolish behavior, lack of professionalism, and disregard for consequences into a tragedy."
Around the blogosphere, the Newsweek mea culpa gets a drubbing. Conservative syndicated columnist Michelle Malkin pillories the waffly back-pedaling, and plenty of others pile on. "Not good enough, Newsweek. People have died because of your shoddy work," scolds liberal and self-described autodidact Dean Esmay. Most watchdog bloggers are equally dismayed. "This mistake cost people their lives, put the lives of our soldiers in the Mideast at risk, damaged the American position in the effort to defend itself and spread democracy, and damaged the already tattered reputation of journalism," writes steadfast critic Jeff Jarvis. "And to what end?"
Plenty of bloggers see the scandal as final proof of the bankruptcy of the mainstream media and their self-policing apparatuses. "Newsweek ran an explosive story based on a single, unnamed source that it knew would cause a huge effect on the Muslim world, at precisely the moment when we need to ensure that people understand that we're not at war with Islam," writes influential conservative Ed Morrissey at Captain's Quarters. Mystery novelist turned blog entrepreneur Roger L. Simon thinks the halfhearted apologia Newsweek issued Sunday avoids "the real problem, the anonymous sourcing that should be the instrument of a totalitarian press, not a free one. They seem [instead] to blame the problem on Michael Isikoff having misjudged his source." And who is that source? "Newsweek isn't saying. Until they report such things as that, I won't believe a word the magazine says. Why would anybody?"
2005-05-18 12:38 | User Profile
Newsweek called treasonous over 'Quran-in-toilet' report: Magazine apologizes for deadly error WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Monday, May 16, 2005
Posted on 05/16/2005 1:17:16 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
Fifteen dead, scores injured, relief buildings burned down.
Years of coalition-building with the Muslim world against terrorist fanatics set back.
That's the toll to date for a brief story about a U.S. prison guard throwing a Quran down the toilet ââ¬â a story Newsweek now admits it got wrong, and one being blasted as "criminal" and "treasonous."
Pentagon officials are scrambling to figure out how to put the genie back in the bottle, but it seems it might take more than a correction and an apology from Newsweek.
It all started with the May 8 issue of the news magazine. The Periscope column written by Michael Isikoff and John Barry included a brief item about U.S. military investigators finding evidence that interrogators placed copies of the Quran down the toilet in an effort to get prisoners to talk.
Days after the magazine hit the street, before the issue date, Imran Khan, a Pakistani cricket legend, read the report to a crowd in an effort to incite opposition to President Pervez Musharraf.
Riots ensued and spread to Afghanistan and other parts of the Islamic world.
Test your IQ!
"We regret that we got any part of the story wrong, and extend our sympathies to victims of the violence and to the U.S. soldiers caught in the midst," said Newsweek Editor Mark Whitaker in a note to readers.
**"It's outrageous, I think it's accessory to murder," said Fox News military analyst Col. David Hunt, now retired from the Army.
"This is a lie. This is [a] criminal act as far as I'm concerned. People died," Hunt told Fox interviewer Geraldo Rivera. "A lot worse things should happen to Newsweek than ... making this half-assed apology."
"It's treasonous at worst," Hunt added. "How about not hurting the war? How about causing no harm? I think Newsweek should lose every reader it ever had." **
The error by Newsweek is reminiscent of one made by the Boston Globe last May and exposed by WND.
**The paper, owned by the New York Times Co., published graphic pornographic photos supposedly depicting U.S. troops gang-raping Iraqi women.
But the photos were fake ââ¬â taken from pornographic websites and disseminated by anti-American propagandists, and exposed as fraudulent by WND a week before the Globe published them.
Likewise, the photos infuriated the Muslim world, despite the later admission by the Globe that they were published in error and the product of a pornographer's imagination. **
[url]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1403933/posts[/url]
2005-05-18 12:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle] That's right. And what's interesting is that the Newsweek folks don't seem to have understood what they were playing with.
Newsweek's Mark Whitaker explained: "I suppose you could say we should have foreseen the consequences of the report, but we didn't."
[/QUOTE]Interesting. I don't believe him. I think the media know perfectly well what they are up to.
For example, the MSM has spent decades attributing racism & Nazism to evil white people, which has had the effect of whipping up fervor in the ongoing race war and encouraging non-whites in their racial grievances and revenge agendas.
At the same time, anti-White hate crimes perpetrated by non-whites continue apace. Every day, there is news of some new hate attack on white people. And yet, the media stubbornly refuse to acknowledge it!
Is there a connection? I think it's obvious.
2005-05-18 14:12 | User Profile
News flash to Gabrielle:
Neocons angry- darkly hint that press censorship is needed to win the "War for Israel and Oil."
2005-05-18 14:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CornCod]I too reject Islam as a false religion. I also consider the Islamic world a kind of perennial enemy of European civilization. However, it is not in the best interests of the United States to go on a crusade against the Moslem world at this time.[/QUOTE] While I am not in favor of warmongering, I would much prefer an honest crusade against Islam to what is going on now -- the US claiming to be fighting terrorism while actually allying itself with Islamic fundamentalists. The US supported the Islamists in Bosnia, Kosova, and now in Chechnya. In Iraq, we deposed a secular, non-threatening regime to install a Shiite government that has stated it will base the new constitution on Islamic law. The forces of soulless, consumerist, culture-destroying liberal democracy and those of militant, expansionist, murderous Islam have formed a marriage of convenience to obliterate their common enemy -- the white, Christian West.
2005-05-18 18:28 | User Profile
I disagree that Islam or Arabs should be targeted for "hate campaigns" or "wiped off the face of the earth". I think the Muslim people are greatly misunderstood and unfairly demonized in the media....sorta like us White folks.
When did you hear of Islamics preaching a desire to colonize Western capitals? And if they happened upon that topic, by what means would they colonize Western capitals?? Forget it. It's the utter stupidity, treachery, carelessness, and capitulation of Western politicians that Arabs are even in the West in the first place. Otherwise, every Muslim would be in his own place working to better their own countries.
Why should it concern you or me or anyone how an Muslim Arab lives his life in his own lands?
What are the real identities of the detainees in Guantanamo and is it legitimate to still be holding them without charge?
2005-05-18 21:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle]Even if your conspiracy theories are truth, why the heck did Newsweek report that? What harm was done if Americans really desecrated a Koran?? Who cares?! Surely they knew the crazy Muslims would freak out if they heard that the Americans were desecrating their ââ¬Åholy book.ââ¬Â Not only would they freak out, but they would also hate Americans even moreââ¬Â¦ SO, the sum good of reporting that (whether it was true or not) wasââ¬Â¦? Nothing. But what was all the harm that reporting it (true or not) caused? Lots and lotsââ¬Â¦ Am I the only one who sees that? Are you all too blind to see whatââ¬â¢s right before your eyes?!
You guys are like foolish young college students; the media is playing you just like pianos. You are so full of media-instilled hatred of Bush that you will believe anything.
[img]http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/newsweek.quran/story.sunday.protest.jpg[/img]
"At least 15 people were killed and dozens injured last week when thousands of demonstrators marched in Afghanistan and other parts of the Muslim world, officials and eyewitnesses said."
"People are dying. They are burning American flags. Our forces are in danger," he told CNN."
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/05/15/newsweek.quran/index.html[/url][/QUOTE]
"The question here is one of proportionate response. If a Qurââ¬â¢an had indeed been flushed, Muslims would have justifiably been offended. They may justifiably have considered the perpetrators boors, or barbarians, or hell-bound unbelievers. They may justifiably have issued denunciations accordingly. But that is all. To kill people thousands of miles away who had nothing to do with the act, and to fulminate with threats and murder against the entire Western world, all because of this alleged act, is not just disproportionate. It is not just excessive. It is mad. And every decent person in the world ought to have the courage to stand up and say that it is mad."
"This kind of analysis, dominant as it is in the media, does the Western world an enormous disservice. The reaction to the Newsweek story in the Muslim world only shows how critical it is that the elements of Islam that give rise to fanaticism and violence be examined and confronted. Lives are at stake. But Cole and Marshall, and many others like them on both the Left and the Right, canââ¬â¢t see this necessity through the enveloping fog of political correctness." [url]http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=18108[/url]
Gabrielle did! :smartass:
2005-05-18 22:25 | User Profile
When you hear these idiots on the radio or t.v. hollering about "defending Western Civilization" you can rest assured they are talking about Zionism and corporatism. It has nothing to do with the West that most people here care about.
2005-05-18 22:33 | User Profile
[quote=Gabby] the media is playing you just like pianos. You are so full of media-instilled hatred of Bush that you will believe anything.
Gabby...
The last time I checked, Fox News was part of the mass media. So are neocon rags like National Review, The Weekly Standard and other rabidly pro-Bush and pro-War outlets. Are they also busy "instilling hatred of Bush," or is Fox News magically exempt from your definition of "the media?"
2005-05-18 23:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]I disagree that Islam or Arabs should be targeted for "hate campaigns" or "wiped off the face of the earth". I think the Muslim people are greatly misunderstood and unfairly demonized in the media....sorta like us White folks.
When did you hear of Islamics preaching a desire to colonize Western capitals? And if they happened upon that topic, by what means would they colonize Western capitals?? Forget it. It's the utter stupidity, treachery, carelessness, and capitulation of Western politicians that Arabs are even in the West in the first place. Otherwise, every Muslim would be in his own place working to better their own countries.
Why should it concern you or me or anyone how an Muslim Arab lives his life in his own lands?
What are the real identities of the detainees in Guantanamo and is it legitimate to still be holding them without charge?[/QUOTE] That is my position as well.
I have no desire to live among Arabs in the US. Let them live in their own lands and mind their own affairs without being molested by the US. But that's not going to happen as long as Jew-puppets like Bush and most of Congress are running the US government.
As long as the US is harassing or killing Arabs in the Middle East, we are serving the Jews. Right now, every US serviceman in Iraq might as well be a member of the IDF on active duty, while the Israeli members of the IDF constitute the reserve forces. That's what our country has come to.
2005-05-19 02:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Angler Quote: I have no desire to live among Arabs in the US. Let them live in their own lands and mind their own affairs without being molested by the US. But that's not going to happen as long as Jew-puppets like Bush and most of Congress are running the US government.
As long as the US is harassing or killing Arabs in the Middle East, we are serving the Jews. Right now, every US serviceman in Iraq might as well be a member of the IDF on active duty, while the Israeli members of the IDF constitute the reserve forces. That's what our country has come to.[/QUOTE]
Agreed 100%
I posted a couple articles by Edgar Steele on another thread that speak to this subject: [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18270[/url]
A couple of quotes: [QUOTE]Jews well recognize that they can ply their trades safely only by diluting a host country racially and setting its citizenry at odds amongst itself. I have quoted more than one Jew in past articles, stating this very fact in no uncertain terms.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]There is a pattern to Jewish tyranny in country after country, you know. Emboldened by getting away with making threats, coincident with their ascension to real political power, they then begin jailing political dissidents, which is where we are in America just now. After that comes the killing. Just ask upwards of 80 million Russian Christians wiped out by Jews last century[/QUOTE].
[QUOTE]60% of the World's Jews flocked to Russia after the Bolshevik revolution, which really was a Jewish revolution, conceived, financed and executed by American Jews, with a little help from their European brethren. To those willing to see, it is clear what they did to Russia. Ask any Russian, if you can. What really should concern Americans today is the fact that 60% of the world's Jews now live in America, just as directly prior to the Russian pogroms. Coincidence or critical mass? You be the judge[/QUOTE].
[QUOTE]Is Russia beginning to seem antagonistic toward America? Well, yes, and so would any country in which America attempted to overthrow the local government of a province. Precisely the same reason is why Venezuela now is forming allegiances with others. And other countries are doing the same, for precisely the same reason: self preservation. Russia and Venezuela simply are two of the most recent instances.
You see, like it or not - whether or not you want to admit it - whether or not you even want to consider the possibility - the fact is that America has become a Jewish nation. Most of the rest of the nations of the world see America's conversion as clear as day and discuss that fact openly. This is the result of the long, slow-motion coup which began in 1963, with the assassination of John F. Kennedy.[/QUOTE]
2005-05-19 04:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]When you hear these idiots on the radio or t.v. hollering about "defending Western Civilization" you can rest assured they are talking about Zionism and corporatism. It has nothing to do with the West that most people here care about.[/QUOTE] When I hear mainstream conservatives, Neocons, and Rush Limbaugh fans talk about "defending Western civilization," I really think they are talking about defending their "right" to sit on their fat arse watching sitcoms and negro games on tv, stuff their faces with fast food, buy cheap Chinese-made gadgets at the mall, and drink cheap beer. :angry:
2005-05-19 14:53 | User Profile
Edgar Steele wants to welcome sodomites into our midst... I don't trust him.
2005-05-19 15:05 | User Profile
The Neo-Cons may be able to bully the cowed U.S. Media, but they can't change the Truth.
This story ain't going away however loudly the FReakers, Faux Shills and Dittoheads bleat...
[url]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0505190306may19,1,278199.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed[/url]
Red Cross told U.S. of Koran incidents
By Cam Simpson and Mark Silva Washington Bureau
May 19, 2005
WASHINGTON -- The International Committee of the Red Cross documented what it called credible information about U.S. personnel disrespecting or mishandling Korans at the Guantanamo Bay detention facility and pointed it out to the Pentagon in confidential reports during 2002 and early 2003, an ICRC spokesman said Wednesday.
Representatives of the ICRC, who have played a key role in investigating abuse allegations at the facility in Cuba and other U.S. military prisons, never witnessed such incidents firsthand during on-site visits, said Simon Schorno, an ICRC spokesman in Washington.
But ICRC delegates, who have been granted access to the secretive camp since January 2002, gathered and corroborated enough similar, independent reports from detainees to raise the issue multiple times with Guantanamo commanders and with Pentagon officials, Schorno said in an interview Wednesday.
Following the ICRC's reports, the Defense Department command in Guantanamo issued almost three pages of detailed, written guidelines for treatment of Korans. Schorno said ICRC representatives did not receive any other complaints or document similar incidents following the issuance of the guidelines on Jan. 19, 2003.
The issue of how Korans are handled by American personnel guarding Muslim detainees moved into the spotlight after protests in Muslim nations, including deadly riots in Afghanistan, that followed a now-retracted report in Newsweek magazine. That story said U.S. investigators had confirmed that interrogators had flushed a Koran down a toilet.
The Koran is Islam's holiest book, and mistreating it is seen as an offense against God.
Following the firestorm over the report and the riots, the ICRC declined Wednesday to discuss what kind of alleged incidents were involved, how many there were or how often it reported them to American officials prior to the release of the 2003 Koran guidelines.
"We don't want to comment specifically on specific instances of desecration, only on the general level of how the Koran was disrespected," Schorno said.
Schorno did say, however, that there were "multiple" instances involved and that the ICRC made confidential reports about such incidents "multiple" times to Guantanamo and Pentagon officials.
In addition to the retracted Newsweek story, senior Bush administration officials have repeatedly downplayed other reports regarding alleged abuses of the Koran at Guantanamo, largely dismissing them because they came from current or former detainees.
Pentagon confirms reports
Asked about the ICRC's confidential reports Wednesday night, Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman, confirmed their existence but sought to downplay the seriousness of their content. He said they were forwarded "on rare occasions" and called them "detainee allegations which they [the ICRC] could not corroborate."
But that is not how Schorno, the ICRC spokesman, portrayed the reports.
"All information we received were corroborated allegations," he said, adding, "We certainly corroborated mentions of the events by detainees themselves."
`Not just one person'
Schorno also said: "Obviously, it is not just one person telling us something happened and we just fire up. We take it very seriously, and very carefully, and document everything in our confidential reports."
It was not clear whether the ICRC's corroboration went beyond statements made independently by detainees.
The organization has said that it insists on speaking "in total privacy to each and every detainee held" when its delegates and translators visit military detention facilities.
Still, Whitman said there was nothing in the ICRC reports that approximated the information published in the story retracted by Newsweek.
"The representations that were made to the United States military at Guantanamo by the ICRC are consistent with the types of things we have found in various [U.S. military] log entries about handling Korans, such as the accidental dropping of a Koran," he said.
Senior administration officials also have been pointing to the Jan. 19, 2003, guidelines this week as proof of the military's sensitivity about Muslim religious issues, but they did not note that the ICRC had confidentially reported specific concerns before the guidelines were issued.
The procedures outlined in the memorandum, which is entitled "Inspecting/Handling Detainee Korans Standard Operating Procedure," are exacting. Among other things, they mandate that chaplains or Muslim interpreters should inspect all Korans, and that military police should not touch the holy books.
The guidelines also specify that Korans should not be "placed in offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet, or dirty/wet areas," according to a copy.
White House spokesman Scott McClellan suggested Tuesday that the guidelines should be broadly reported in the wake of the retracted Newsweek story.
"The military put in place policies and procedures to make sure that the Koran was handled, or is handled, with the utmost care and respect," he said.
U.S. credited for response
The ICRC gave U.S. officials credit for taking corrective action at Guantanamo by issuing the guidelines, with Schorno saying Wednesday, "We brought it up to the attention of the authorities, and it was followed through."
He also said, "The memo doesn't mention the ICRC, but we know that our comments are taken seriously."
Still, Schorno did not say the guidelines were issued specifically in response to the ICRC's reports. Schorno's remarks Wednesday represented a departure from the ICRC's customary policy of confidentiality with the governments it deals with in an effort to maintain their trust and the organization's neutrality.
A senior State Department official, speaking only on the condition that he not be named, said Wednesday the issuance of the guidelines followed the ICRC's reports and that they were "a credit to the fact that we investigate and correct practices and problems."
Whitman, the Pentagon spokesman, said he was not aware of "any specific precipitating event that caused the command to codify those in a written policy."
Whitman also said, "The ICRC works very closely with us to help us identify concerns with respect to detainees on a variety of issues, to include religious issues. But I can't make any direct correlation there" between ICRC concerns on the Koran and the issuance of the 2003 guidelines.
[email]csimpson@tribune.com[/email]
[email]mdsilva@tribune.com[/email]
Copyright é 2005, Chicago Tribune
2005-05-19 15:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Stuka]When I hear mainstream conservatives, Neocons, and Rush Limbaugh fans talk about "defending Western civilization," I really think they are talking about defending their "right" to sit on their fat arse watching sitcoms and negro games on tv, stuff their faces with fast food, buy cheap Chinese-made gadgets at the mall, and drink cheap beer. :angry:[/QUOTE]
Yup. "They" hate "Us" for our pornography and deracinated consumerism...
2005-05-20 00:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Howard Campbell, Jr.] These are the same sadistic PsyOps thugs who smeared women soldiers' mentrual blood on the faces of devout Islamic prisoners..[/QUOTE]You say that like it is a bad thing.
I wonder also at the truth of that claim. It may be true, may be not.
I am trying to imagine what American woman would actually go into a prisoners cell when on her menses and smear her blood on any man.
No one I ever met..
[QUOTE]
"They" hate "Us" for our pornography and deracinated consumerism...
[/QUOTE]
Madonna and Britany Spears are Osama's best advertisement in the Muslim World.
"Barkeep, a whiskey for Mr Campbell please?"
2005-05-20 00:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CornCod]I too reject Islam as a false religion. I also consider the Islamic world a kind of perennial enemy of European civilization. However, it is not in the best interests of the United States to go on a crusade against the Moslem world at this time. For more or less a hundred years Islam was a "sleeping giant." There, of course, have always been problems in the Balkans and on the Western border of the Turkish Empire, but these have been pretty much sideshows in modern times. Turkey is still very much the sick man of Europe and the King of Morroco appears to have no interest in opening up a colonial capital in Madrid. Idiotic European immigration laws are another matter entirely.
It was the West's support of Israel beginning in 1948 that soured our relations with the Islamic world. At first, the struggle against Zionism was fought by Arab Nationalists, now it is the Islamists that carry on the defensive war. It was the Zionist enterprise that woke the sleeping giant. The Jews will fight to the last Christian gentile stooge.
If people think that there is something to be gained by going to war against the entire Islamic world then they are crazy. If they think we can win a war by torturing and humiliating Islamic men and wiping their backsides with the Koran, then they are truly certifiable. To go to war with any country deemed a potential threat is madness.
If necessary, I will go to war to fight against Islam in defense of the West. I will not, however, kill, oppress or humiliate Moslems as a catspaw or stooge of the Jews. Let the Yids fight their own battles![/QUOTE] Absent the italics part, as perception colors everything, may I offer a hearty ' "Man, I wish I had said that!" One beer, for CornCod, on me, should we ever meet. Heck, three. :cheers:
2005-05-20 00:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Stuka]When I hear mainstream conservatives, Neocons, and Rush Limbaugh fans talk about "defending Western civilization," I really think they are talking about defending their "right" to sit on their fat arse watching sitcoms and negro games on tv, stuff their faces with fast food, buy cheap Chinese-made gadgets at the mall, and drink cheap beer. :angry:[/QUOTE] There is a very old joke, I first heard it in 1979ish, that God inspired Mr Naismith to invent basketball in order to keep black people happy and busy. Do you consider that more than a joke? :cool:
2005-05-20 04:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angeleyes]You say that like it is a bad thing.
I wonder also at the truth of that claim. It may be true, may be not.
I am trying to imagine what American woman would actually go into a prisoners cell when on her menses and smear her blood on any man.
No one I ever met. [/QUOTE]
From experience I find it plausible. There was highly perceptible undercurrent of perversion and hypersexuality in the army when I was in, and never did it manifest itself more plainly than when there where a few women present in close quarters.
2005-05-20 04:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead] I'm just curious about the Newsweek article about the desecration of the Koran at Guantanamo, which I'm sure is true. It was like those photographers months back that released pictures of flag-draped coffins of US GI's and then were promptly fired. It's like Dan Rather doing a story on Jorge's well-known abysmal military record and then a huge controversy results where Rather "retires" early and 4 other people get fired. I see a similiar pattern at work with the current Newsweek story. [/QUOTE] Yes, that is interesting. The Dan Rather story may well have been a deliberate sting. The rebutal of the source documents appeared almost instantly; it seemed to be a very well planned and executed operation. It effectively buried the Bush story about using his privileged position to avoid service (which he certainly did do) and also the controversy forced CBS to bury their story exposing the forged Niger yellowcake documents, which story they delayed initially to get out their "scoop" about the Bush ANG documents.
Something similar happened in Britain a year or so ago after the war was over. A British newspaper published some photos of British soldiers beating up Iraqi civilians. They believed their source, only out of nowhere anonymous sources began pointing out all kinds of alleged discrepencies in the photos, eventually forcing the newspaper's editor to resign, if memory serves. No one asked the obvious question, if the photos were fake, who faked them? I'll wager it was someone within British intelligence services. This story nicely caused the numerous actual, well documented cases of British abuse, rape, and murder of Iraqi civilians to "disappear" from the British media for a while. After all, who wants to trust a source, no matter how reliable, if it might just be another trap?
In the case of the "Koran flushing" I think it wasn't so much of a premeditated trap, so much as it was made into a "gotca" after the fact. This story got the approval of two military officials before it was published; they saw nothing wrong with it. The story was out there for something like a week and a half without any objection from the military or the Bush regime; only after the Afgan riots did the story suddenly become a problem.
Remember, all the story said was that the military was going to include the incident in an upcoming report. We can assume that the source was "leaned on" to change his mind. So, the story won't be put in a forthcoming report; that doesn't mean it didn't happen, it just means that the military has decided to bury the story again until the controversy blows over, at least, but they probably won't be able to bury the story forever. Too many other sources have already broken this story.
2005-05-20 04:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=EDUMAKATEDMOFO]From experience I find it plausible. There was highly perceptible undercurrent of perversion and hypersexuality in the army when I was in, and never did it manifest itself more plainly than when there where a few women present in close quarters.[/QUOTE] Yes, I think Angeleyes is being extremely naive about Americans today, we really are a sick bunch of degenerates. We talk a good game in public about being more religious and more modest than those degenerate Europeans, but in private we really aren't that different. The Europeans are at least more honest about this.
As to the incident in question, I don't believe the woman used actual menstrual blood (probably none was available) but used something that looked like blood and made the Moslem man think she was using menstrual blood.
Either way, it's all part and parcel of the same sick imagination.
2005-05-21 18:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=EDUMAKATEDMOFO]From experience I find it plausible. There was highly perceptible undercurrent of perversion and hypersexuality in the army when I was in, and never did it manifest itself more plainly than when there where a few women present in close quarters.[/QUOTE] OK.
I don't see spreading Menstrual fluids as sexual, but maybe my brain is not wired to see it as sexual rather than just dirty. I know what you mean about the sexual tension in the military when genders mingle. It can be bloody disruptive.
The menses thing on a prisoner is disgusting, in any case. If true, whatever woman did that needs some serious help.