← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · neoclassical
Thread ID: 18080 | Posts: 125 | Started: 2005-05-03
2005-05-03 04:19 | User Profile
Why White Nationalism is a Loser
If a group of people were to gather to complain about the rain, boasting how a few dozen of them would one day violently revolt against the weather and defeat it forever, they would be avoided by normal people who might instead summon mental health professional to help the group.
Further, if this group's activism consisted not of lobbying public officials, consensus building, and scientific endeavors, but instead was limited to symbolic marches and handing out crude fliers proclaiming their hatred for rain, it would be obvious to well-adjusted people that no change would result from the action of this group and that these people had some strange enjoyment for wasting time on a self-defeating mythology.
What makes people similarly suspicious of White Nationalism is that it offers no plan or positive message, instead relegating itself to complaining about things it "hates" while admitting its impotence to do anything effective about its list of grievances. Its claims that a white nation would be a utopia somehow free of the abundant white trash that has created many of the problems facing white people from unhealthy physical and mental lifestyles. In general, they unabashedly point fingers at others before bothering to get their own house in order.
People who favor Indo-European values and culture approach life differently: they actively support what they appreciate and ignore what is of low character and irrelevant to their goals. There are thousands of ill-conceived and repugnant things in the world, but these only have an audience in the corresponding sort of person. Talking about low things finds common ground only with a low audience -- better people have moved on to better topics instead of beating dead horses that can go nowhere.
At this point in history it is more valuable to construct and promote what is superior in civilization than to smash down one of the many junk artifacts in our cultural landscape. You can help give someone a pointer in the direction of something that is not junk. If they are into gutter music, show them the best works of Mozart and Beethoven instead. If they are into the "philosophy" of whatever trendy TV guru is making the rounds, introduce them to Nietzsche and Schopenhauer. If they like the "profound drama" of ER or 24, help them discover the genius of Goethe and Shakespeare.
Some people find an outlet in beating video games, imagining themselves as a character in a movie, or plotting impossible scenarios for overthrowing the world. Something about the thrill of fantasy provides an alternative to their frustrated reality. Others who are activists only care about actual results and have no time for illusions and fantasy. It is up to us to act wisely and most importantly to be truthful with ourselves when working towards our goals.
[url]http://www.nazi.org/community/columns/lindstrom/[/url]
2005-05-03 14:37 | User Profile
Who is Robert Lindstrom and what has he accomplished In Real Life ? ? :confused:
2005-05-03 16:12 | User Profile
Just for the hell of it...
[QUOTE]If a group of people were to gather to complain about the rain, boasting how a few dozen of them would one day violently revolt against the weather and defeat it forever, they would be avoided by normal people who might instead summon mental health professional to help the group.[/QUOTE]
Stupid analogy, portraying racial trends/issues as inevitable and unavoidable, like natural disasters or bad weather when in fact they are the result of deliberate policies that can and should be challenged. Also it repeats the usual slur that racially conscious whites are mentally ill and need "help".
[QUOTE]Further, if this group's activism consisted not of lobbying public officials, consensus building, and scientific endeavors, but instead was limited to symbolic marches and handing out crude fliers proclaiming their hatred for rain, it would be obvious to well-adjusted people that no change would result from the action of this group and that these people had some strange enjoyment for wasting time on a self-defeating mythology.[/QUOTE]
Since when have pamphleteering and public marches been the sign of a "self-defeating mythology"? You could say the same about any mass political movement. And yet again we see the accusation that White Nationalists are not "well-adjusted".
[QUOTE]What makes people similarly suspicious of White Nationalism is that it offers no plan or positive message, instead relegating itself to complaining about things it "hates" while admitting its impotence to do anything effective about its list of grievances.[/QUOTE]
The message of White Nationalism is plain enough: ethnically homogenous societies work best. People with a common ethnic and cultural identity should live together in a society founded on that common identity. White Nationalism is just Zionism for Whites.
Why the quotes around "hate"? This not a word used by White Nationalists to describe their worldview. Who is being quoted here?
[QUOTE]Its claims that a white nation would be a utopia somehow free of the abundant white trash that has created many of the problems facing white people from unhealthy physical and mental lifestyles. In general, they unabashedly point fingers at others before bothering to get their own house in order.[/QUOTE]
Straw man: White Nationalists do not claim that such a society would be "utopia", only that it would not suffer from many of the ailments of today's society that are attributable to enforced multiculturalism and multiracialism. Naturally not all social problems would be instantly cured.
[QUOTE]People who favor Indo-European values and culture approach life differently: they actively support what they appreciate and ignore what is of low character and irrelevant to their goals. There are thousands of ill-conceived and repugnant things in the world, but these only have an audience in the corresponding sort of person. Talking about low things finds common ground only with a low audience -- better people have moved on to better topics instead of beating dead horses that can go nowhere.[/QUOTE]
"Better people" (rich liberals with no racial identity?) will find that their attempts to "move on" and avoid the ugly realities of life in multiracial societies will eventually catch up with them, no matter how far they flee out to suburbia.
[QUOTE]At this point in history it is more valuable to construct and promote what is superior in civilization than to smash down one of the many junk artifacts in our cultural landscape. You can help give someone a pointer in the direction of something that is not junk. If they are into gutter music, show them the best works of Mozart and Beethoven instead. If they are into the "philosophy" of whatever trendy TV guru is making the rounds, introduce them to Nietzsche and Schopenhauer. If they like the "profound drama" of ER or 24, help them discover the genius of Goethe and Shakespeare.[/QUOTE]
This is actually a pretty good point, IMHO.
[QUOTE]Some people find an outlet in beating video games, imagining themselves as a character in a movie, or plotting impossible scenarios for overthrowing the world. Something about the thrill of fantasy provides an alternative to their frustrated reality. Others who are activists only care about actual results and have no time for illusions and fantasy. It is up to us to act wisely and most importantly to be truthful with ourselves when working towards our goals.[/QUOTE]
Escapism is harmless. I don't think it should be seen as a character flaw. But the conclusion is valid.
2005-05-03 17:40 | User Profile
Nicely handled, RRP. We hear the "white nationalism is a loser" argument all the time. As if the non-success of something nascent is proof of its inevitable failure. As a matter of fact, "hate" is a part of the awakening. There's not a damn thing wrong with that. "Hate" is how human beings identify very real dislikes that they they'd like to get away from. Western civilization didn't begin because we loved classical music. It began because we hated getting rained on.
2005-05-03 18:18 | User Profile
Why White Nationalism is a Loser?
I agree that rain is a bad analogy, but it still works. White Nationalists have been totally impotant when it comes to changing the cultural weather, the rising anti-white tide.
Look at all the conservative leaders who don't have any, or few, children of their own. Look at the White Nationalists who want to keep the vast majority of whites in anti-white public schools by opposing vouchers. White Nationists can't even get their own house in order, let alone saving the nation.
2005-05-03 19:23 | User Profile
The dogmas of White Nationalism and its danger for European nationalism I'm 23, I come from Flanders (Dutch speaking northern half of Belgium) and I consider myself to be a national socialist, a culturalist and a Germanic nationalist. I'm always bothered by the illogical dogmas of 'white nationalism' and the way it threatens nationalism in a European context. I would like to explain that in this thread.
There is NO such a thing as THE white race.
There are several European races of which each have a light skin pigmentation. The most prominent examples are: - the Germanic race. This group includes Germans, Swedes, Norwegians, Danish, Dutch, Flemish, Irish and Scottish. Some put the English also in this category - the Slavic race. This group includes most Eastern-European peoples such as Russians, Poles and Czechs. - the Mediterranian race. This group includes French, Spanish, Italians and Greeks. - the Basks. Their origin is unknown, and their language,genetic make-up and culture are all unique.
Other than these 4 races, there are also a few ethnocultural groups that are of mixed origin but also have become a unique ethno-cultural group of their own. Examples are : - the Lappish : a mix of Mongolian and Germanic - the Askenazim (the 'jewish race') : a mix of Germanic, Slavic and Mediterranean
Each of these races have its own physical traits, its own culture and its own language. Each of these races is white.
People in immigrant countries (US, Canada, Australia) are a mix of various races or subgroups of a race. This has lead to a dissolution of the differentiation between different white ethnocultural groups. But even black people in the US today often have many features that unquestionably orriginate from a European race and that are non-existing in black Africa.
The differentiation between white and black that we know today in the US, is a result of the era of slavery, when slaves were black and free men were white. Though black people have freedom today, there still is a strong social distinction between the two groups that seperate them. This gap will most likely never be closed in a way that is acceptable for both groups, which is why 'white nationalism' may be a solution for social problems in the US. It however only applies to the US because of its specific situation.
The belief that white people are regarded as one homogenous distinct group is also strengthened in the US by the fact that most immigrants who either profit from welfare or are underpaid - and who thereby destroy American welfare - come from countries such as Mexico and Cuba, which is not regarded as white anymore. This is however different in other countries. We have the same problems with immigrants, but in my country, the Mexicans and Cubans are replaced by Slavs. Your black people are our Turks and Moroccans. Your jews are our Frenchspeaking Walloons, who are most the descendants of a French immigrants and racetraitors.
In Europe, the 'white people' is no homogenous distinct group. Each of the above mentioned races is different from the others genetically and culturally, leading to different problems between these races. But those races themselves too are divided in different subgroups who themselves are divided in subgroups. Every province and even every old city and village has its own identity that goes back hundreds of years. Sometimes there can even be rivalry between these different groups due to ethnoccultural differences.
Americans often don't realize it, but in Europe cultural differences are greater between cities located at 50 miles from one another than differences in the US between cities located at 1000 miles from one another. Racial differences between white people in the US are non-existant, while they are very prominent in Europe. Basing a world view on the situation in the US, is a very narrowminded and wrong thing to do.
Jews are a white people
The Askenazim (the 'jewish race') is more white than many mediterraneans, who are considered to be 'white' by 'white nationalists'. So if mediterraneans are white, then jews are white too.
You may argue that jews have specific physical features and a different culture. But Germanic people, Slavic people and Mediterraneans all have specific physical features and a culture different from one another. And Askenazi culture really does have a lot of similarities with Eastern-European cultures. I dare you to name one element that is present in all white races but not in the Askenazim......
White nationalism is a danger to European nationalism
White nationalism is a danger to European nationalism, as much as multi-culturalism. Both beliefs are dangerous for the diversity and sovereignty of individual peoples. Does that mean white people shouldn't cooperate beyond the limits of their ethno-cultural background? Of course, not. One should work together with everyone who can help the cause they believe in, whether that's the establishment for a 'white homeland' in the US, a national socialist nation somewhere in Europe or whatever you believe in. I however find it to be hypocritical and illogical to regard racially conscious people with a white skin as allies be default, while regarding racially conscious people with a different skin color as enemies.
I'm willing to cooperate with anyone who can help my cause, regardless of race. I'm not willing to cooperate with anyone who wants my people to assimilate.... whether its assimilation to a broad 'white' nation or to a multi-cultural nation. Hitler despised the Slavs, but he cooperated with the Japanese and the Turks. George Lincoln Rockwell once respected and sought an alliance with Malcolm X, who too believed in the existence of a white homeland (next to a black homeland) in America. Modern 'white nationalism' makes that kind of alliances impossible and forces us to cooperate with other white peoples who may be our natural enemies....
I don't regard any people as subhuman. Each race has its own superior traits and its own inferior traits, just like any individual. There is nothing wrong to feel pride about your superior traits, but you shouldn't hate people of other races because of that.... whatever color they may have.
I believe that ALL races should have the right to live in their own homeland as a distinct group with full sovereignty.... regardless of skin color. My loyalty however lies with the Germanic people, and no other people.
[url]http://www.phora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9671[/url]
2005-05-03 19:35 | User Profile
[B][I] - "If they are into the "philosophy" of whatever trendy TV guru is making the rounds, introduce them to Nietzsche and Schopenhauer."[/I] [/B]
Why would [I]either[/I] of these men really inspire defenders of Western civilization?
Schopenhauer being misogynistic closet case who admired Indian nihilism and scorned Christianity-inspired optimistic worldview that was the origin of Western greatness and its mindset of "manifest destiny".
Nietzche with his hyper-individualist "overman" pretensions and contempt for the "little people" (and condemning anti-Semites as resentment-filled losers)
Petr
2005-05-04 02:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE=neoclassical]... White nationalism is a danger to European nationalism, as much as multi-culturalism. Both beliefs are dangerous for the diversity and sovereignty of individual peoples. Does that mean white people shouldn't cooperate beyond the limits of their ethno-cultural background? Of course, not. One should work together with everyone who can help the cause they believe in, whether that's the establishment for a 'white homeland' in the US, a national socialist nation somewhere in Europe or whatever you believe in. I however find it to be hypocritical and illogical to regard racially conscious people with a white skin as allies be default, while regarding racially conscious people with a different skin color as enemies. ...[/QUOTE] These statements make me feel extremely uncomfortable... but you are correct.
[QUOTE=neoclassical]... I'm willing to cooperate with anyone who can help my cause, regardless of race. I'm not willing to cooperate with anyone who wants my people to assimilate.... whether its assimilation to a broad 'white' nation or to a multi-cultural nation. Hitler despised the Slavs, but he cooperated with the Japanese and the Turks. George Lincoln Rockwell once respected and sought an alliance with Malcolm X, who too believed in the existence of a white homeland (next to a black homeland) in America. Modern 'white nationalism' makes that kind of alliances impossible and forces us to cooperate with other white peoples who may be our natural enemies.... ...[/QUOTE] Again... your assertions are very disturbing... but again I must agree.
I can think of many types of individuals within the White Nationalist movement who are by nature... my natural enemies. The venomous anti-Christians immediately come to mind. On the other side of the coin... I consider many types of individuals within the Christian community to be my natural enemies as well... especially those that are pro-Jew. :glare:
2005-05-04 03:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE]If a group of people were to gather to complain about the rain, boasting how a few dozen of them would one day violently revolt against the weather and defeat it forever, they would be avoided by normal people who might instead summon mental health professional to help the group. [QUOTE=Happy Hacker]Why White Nationalism is a Loser?
I agree that rain is a bad analogy, but it still works. White Nationalists have been totally impotant when it comes to changing the cultural weather, the rising anti-white tide.
Look at all the conservative leaders who don't have any, or few, children of their own. Look at the White Nationalists who want to keep the vast majority of whites in anti-white public schools by opposing vouchers. White Nationists can't even get their own house in order, let alone saving the nation.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]Or look at all the WN's who seem to want to sit around endlessly debating how many WN angels can fit on the head of a pin. That seems to be a common thread of the WN board I've seen, Phora, SF, etc. There are a few logical people, but they seem drowned out by the lunatics who want to do nothing but talk endlessly.
That's one of the reasons I think above ground organizations of all sorts seem to avoid message boards, and the ones that succeed are heavily moderated (like FR). Most people aren't capable of translating talk into action.
2005-05-04 04:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]That's one of the reasons I think above ground organizations of all sorts seem to avoid message boards, and the ones that succeed are heavily moderated (like FR). Most people aren't capable of translating talk into action.[/QUOTE]
Yes, not enough action to go with the talk. But, the size of OD vs. FR has nothing to do with the degree of moderation. FR is much more mainstream.
2005-05-04 05:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Happy Hacker]Yes, not enough action to go with the talk. But, the size of OD vs. FR has nothing to do with the degree of moderation. FR is much more mainstream.[/QUOTE]I wasn't talking about the size as much per se as a sign of success, but of the off-forum activity level. FR isn't that much success as a sounding board for innovative discussions, but squelching that deliberately seems to have been able to translate quite successfully into making it a useful auxilary of the GOP, which appears to be JR's chief goal. The talker mode seems easily to become antithetical to the doer mode, and I haven't seen many places that combine the two well.
2005-05-04 12:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=neoclassical] There is NO such a thing as THE white race.
[url]http://www.phora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9671[/url][/QUOTE]
Yet I am a member of the White race. What you mean is there is no such thing as the White race in Europe. The former colonies are full of White people, many more so than any white ethnicity in Europe.
2005-05-04 13:14 | User Profile
W.N is divided on all fronts, religious wise, rightwingers camp,revolutionary camp. And then you have all the mini furhers making sure it stays that way so they keep there piece of the pie. Most are captalist cons and goverment heels. The 14word slogan is not enough. As jesus said "A house divided against itself will fall."
To be honest there are a huge amount of Pro White sheeple in the Race camp being made useless by the current box dogmas of current W.N. and anyone who does not bow to there dogma all the way is come down on.
2005-05-05 20:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=G.Larson]W.N is divided on all fronts, religious wise, rightwingers camp,revolutionary camp. And then you have all the mini furhers making sure it stays that way so they keep there piece of the pie. Most are captalist cons and goverment heels. The 14word slogan is not enough. As jesus said "A house divided against itself will fall."
To be honest there are a huge amount of Pro White sheeple in the Race camp being made useless by the current box dogmas of current W.N. and anyone who does not bow to there dogma all the way is come down on.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44118[/url]
Vulgar heckler arrested at Ann Coulter speech Protesters rip 'racist, sexist, anti-gay, right-wing bigot'
WND columnist Ann Coulter
"A University of Texas student was arrested last night amid F-word-laced heckling and shouting during a speech on campus by WorldNetDaily columnist Ann Coulter, prompting discussion on talk radio across America today.
The student, sophomore Ajai Raj, was approached by campus police officers after asking Coulter a vulgar question during a question-and-answer session, according to the Daily Texan student newspaper.
The paper said that prior to the $30,000 event, co-sponsored by the Texas Union Student Events Center and Student Endowed Centennial Lectureship Committee, the International Socialist Organization protested outside of the meeting hall at the Lyndon Baines Johnson Library and Museum.
About a dozen people held up signs with slogans such as **"Racist, sexist, anti-gay, right-wing bigot go away" and "Stop the new McCarthyism." **
The booing began early into Coulter's speech, the Daily Texan said, when she told a joke aimed at abortion advocates: **"I wonder why those 'I Heart Partial-Birth Abortion' T-shirts aren't selling better." **
Coulter criticized liberals for undemocratic reactions to the Iraq war and the president's judicial appointments.
"They're always trying to act like they're oppressed," she said. "So let's do it. Let's oppress them."
The paper said one student asked Coulter why universities and institutions invite her even though she "advocates terrorism against liberals."
Coulter pointed to her book sales, with four New York Times best-sellers.
During the question-and-answer session, the booing and heckling became so overwhelming that Coulter said she would have to leave unless the hecklers were silenced.
The noise died down until Coulter addressed the issue of same-sex marriage, which led to the arrest of Raj.
After affirming she believed marriage is between a man and a woman, Raj asked approached the microphone to ask a question.
"You say that you believe in the sanctity of marriage," the student said. "How do you feel about marriages where the man does nothing but ---- his wife up the ---?"
According to the police report, he then ran back toward his seat, making a motion with his hand "simulating masturbation."
"The police came down and started escorting him out," said event organizer Josh Campbell on today's Rush Limbaugh radio show. "He resisted that and then they arrested him. So, it's not like they were arresting him because of what he said, they were arresting him because he was using lewd remarks and lewd gestures and then resisted them escorting him out. ...
**"At that point, I would say probably 30 or 40 liberals in the audience jumped up out of their chairs, ran out of the auditorium claiming police brutality, and we were purged of about 80 percent of the liberals that were there, so it was great!" **
A friend of Raj, Jeffrey Stockerwell, claimed officers violently seized Raj and illegally searched him after his question.
Police charged Raj with disorderly conduct, a Class C misdemeanor.
The paper said representatives of an activist group, Austin People's Legal Collective, took statements from everyone at the scene in case it ended up in court. "
[Quote] Do none of you realize these people will be our allies? In time we will succeed because WN and NS need the help of the so-called "radical left" when they are National Socialists who don't understand homogeneous cultures yet. They will realize that will stop bigotry on a massive level.
The above is what one WN from SF wrote. Need I say more?
2005-05-05 21:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Need I say more?[/QUOTE] No, but then again, There aren't too many on this board who either give a damn about Coulter or the idiots she ran into. They deserve each other.
2005-05-06 03:34 | User Profile
Do none of you realize these people will be our allies? In time we will succeed because WN and NS need the help of the so-called "radical left" when they are National Socialists who don't understand homogeneous cultures yet. They will realize that will stop bigotry on a massive level. [QUOTE=Gabrielle]
The above is what one WN from SF wrote. Need I say more?[/QUOTE] Actually you could say a little more. On Israel, Iraq and some aspects of globalization, where the mainstream right has virtually abandoned us, we occasionally can't help but feel some warm fuzzies toward some of the radical left types, and you can't blame them, since the contemporary political scene is so bleak.
That said, as Sertorius said, we don't really listen seriously to many figures from either mainstream conservatism or from SF types. Both have substandard thought processes, bred as they are in environments/forums where you are protected from hard questions.
2005-05-06 11:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Actually you could say a little more. On Israel, Iraq and some aspects of globalization, where the mainstream right has virtually abandoned us, we occasionally can't help but feel some warm fuzzies toward some of the radical left types, and you can't blame them, since the contemporary political scene is so bleak.
That said, as Sertorius said, we don't really listen seriously to many figures from either mainstream conservatism or from SF types. Both have substandard thought processes, bred as they are in environments/forums where you are protected from hard questions.[/QUOTE]
Like Sertorious, you missed my point also. I find it rather strange that you are able to feel "some warm fuzzies" towards the left; but you and many so-called WN have no tolerance for the foolish right.
More warm fuzzies for you:[url]http://www.majoritynews.com/index.htm#2005-05-06-tufts-hate-rally-against-euros[/url]
2005-05-06 15:20 | User Profile
Here is a thread from Stormfront with [I]standard[/I] thought-processes:
[url]http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=203297[/url]
Didn't take long to find, either. Just depends what you are looking for.
2005-05-06 19:37 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]... as Sertorius said, we don't really listen seriously to many figures from either mainstream conservatism or from SF types. Both have substandard thought processes, bred as they are in environments/forums where you are protected from hard questions.[/QUOTE] Stormfront is a good example of how "controlled" the discussion process is on some of the boards now. Every time the discussion gets a little too controversial... the entire thread gets pulled. I'm not talking about vulgar posts either.
Someone criticizes criminal hero worship... the thread gets pulled.
Condemn the "Silent Brotherhood..." the thread gets pulled.
Poke fun at the black Nobel Prize winner... the thread gets pulled.
The censorship on that board has become so bad that many people are extremely restrained and subdued about what they post now.
This is why I post mostly on OD and the Phora now.
:)
2005-05-06 20:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle]Like Sertorious, you missed my point also. I find it rather strange that you are able to feel "some warm fuzzies" towards the left; but you and many so-called WN have no tolerance for the foolish right. [/QUOTE]
What's so strange about it? I haven't the least bit of tolerance for drooling, butt-kissing, zionist, "right wing" sycophants like Coutler, Hannity, O'Reilly, et al. even if they're anti-homo marriage. Those people have nothing in common with the average WN Joe.
I'd read commentary and/or listen to Noam Chomsky with more appreciation and understanding than a ranting psychotic nincompoop like Coulter.
2005-05-07 01:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=neoclassical]the Mediterranian race. This group includes French, Spanish, Italians and Greeks.
I live in Lille, I was born in Dunkerque (Dunkirk) as all my family, my grandmother was from the french flemish-speaking minority and my daughter will learn flemish (to avoid Arabs in high school). That makes me a Mediterranean? Are your french-speaking neighboors of Belgium Mediterraneans? There are german-speaking minorities in Italy and Southern Italians are different from those of the north. Switzerland has no linguistic unity.
As America, France is the most mongrel people of Europe. The name of our nation comes a germanic tribe, we speak a latin language and we gathered invaders from Scandinavia, England, Italy, Germany, Russia ... So telling white nationalism does not exist like claiming France is a artificial construct.
[QUOTE=neoclassical]The Askenazim (the 'jewish race') is more white than many mediterraneans, who are considered to be 'white' by 'white nationalists'. So if mediterraneans are white, then jews are white too.
You are correct but I swear Sepharads are not for the most part, except perhaps Greeks.
[QUOTE=neoclassical]White nationalism is a danger to European nationalism [...] Your jews are our Frenchspeaking Walloons, who are most the descendants of a French immigrants and racetraitors.
Here we are! This is something Americans have maybe some difficulties to fully understand. You are just confusing white nationalism with a local problem, and too much passion. You are a flemish secessionist and deeply involded into the cause of your people. As you guess, I am a proponent of your fight since your "jewish race-traitors" Walloons are a part of ours we languorously covet since two centuries. And you know the real solution : pissing on Belgium, the Social Security, past oppression (true or false, it does not matter), federal budget, innate incompentency and racial inferiority of the Wallons (they are just the same as you but that is fine), ... etc You should not miss the narrowest opportunity to upset the belgian liberals (whose a proportion is flemish). The cost of integrating our compatriots and gaining a border with Netherlands is just the price of love we cannot wait to pay.
So, "Die, Belgium, die !" ;)
Last but not least, I must give precisions. You are also confusing the 3 or 4 millions Wallons with the hundred of thousand of French-speaking people of Bruxelles, a disputed area. I hope you do not assume the firsts are immigrants?? They speak french and you flemish because the roman occupation separated both of you many centuries ago. I do not know if the seconds are immigrants and I will not discuss it, even if the French from Belgium I met told me the opposite, of course. But you know, they are making up 85 to 90% of the population of Bruxelles (or Brussels, your choice) and [u]one day people who inhabit the land rule the land[/u]*, regardless of the people. And then you can draw a straight connection with white nationalism.
2005-05-07 03:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE]The Askenazim (the 'jewish race') is more white than many mediterraneans, who are considered to be 'white' by 'white nationalists'. So if mediterraneans are white, then jews are white too.[/QUOTE]
Jews, as a people and historically speaking, are the most inbred people. So much so that they are a race. Mediterraneans are not nearly as inbred as Jews. They are not a race.
Furthermore, skin tone or color does NOT determine if someone is White. Only DNA or genes do.
2005-05-07 03:53 | User Profile
Good post Howling Privateer, unfortunately the 19th century racialists will have their little delusions. Then average European nation is no less ââ¬Ëmongrelââ¬â¢ than the USA. In the European context a nation is a cultural construct first and a blood construct a distant second. The ââ¬Ëracialistââ¬â¢ dreck currently floating about the internet is based upon a form of 19th century romanticism -- national vanity in pseudo-scientific fancy dress -- that makes multicultism look like hard-nosed pragmatism.
2005-05-07 04:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Jews, as a people and historically speaking, are the most inbred people. So much so that they are a race. Mediterraneans are not nearly as inbred as Jews. They are not a race.
Furthermore, skin tone or color does NOT determine if someone is White. Only DNA or genes do.
-------------[/QUOTE]
On the contrary, the Jewish gene pool is quite diverse:
[url]http://www.angeltowns.com/members/racialreal/jews.html[/url]
2005-05-07 04:23 | User Profile
I think it is the eastern European jews that are considered extremely inbred. K. Macdonald goes into quite a bit of detail on the subject.
2005-05-07 04:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]Good post Howling Privateer, unfortunately the 19th century racialists will have their little delusions. Then average European nation is no less ââ¬Ëmongrelââ¬â¢ than the USA. In the European context a nation is a cultural construct first and a blood construct a distant second. The ââ¬Ëracialistââ¬â¢ dreck currently floating about the internet is based upon a form of 19th century romanticism -- national vanity in pseudo-scientific fancy dress -- that makes multicultism look like hard-nosed pragmatism.[/QUOTE]
Jump right in, man. There is a Filipina out there somewhere for you.
2005-05-07 04:34 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Jump right in, man. There is a Filipina out there somewhere for you.[/QUOTE] I'm sure there's any number of impoverished non-Whites I could take advantage of were I so inclined, however I find both womanising and race-mixing repellent. I don't believe you grasped even a single point in my post.
2005-05-07 14:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]I'm sure there's any number of impoverished non-Whites I could take advantage of were I so inclined, however I find both womanising and race-mixing repellent. I don't believe you grasped even a single point in my post.[/QUOTE]
Sorry then. I took your post for a general shotgun blast at the idea that White nationalities in Europe have any claim to be an extended family.
2005-05-07 17:56 | User Profile
At this point in history it is more valuable to construct and promote what is superior in civilization than to smash down one of the many junk artifacts in our cultural landscape
It's a great point, actually, among others but it's moot among those who themselves adopt precisely the Rainbow Coalition's rant of offense and hate and various self-esteem problems.
"White Nationalists" who have more in common with 60s-era Pubbies than Christ and who can coutnenance abortion, even, with the thought that "at least more darkies are killed thereby" deserve exactly what they get.
I'm just amazed so many otherwise intelligent folk get sucked up into this especially Useful idiot movement.
2005-05-08 04:29 | User Profile
Gabrielle,
You are right we do some tolerance for foolishness, but some of the so-called WN have gone too far out. Okiereddust does make a good point, often the articles written by leftist have far more truth in them than one's written by GOP goons. You are right that some rightist have too much affection for people such as Gore Vidal and Noam Chomsky. I have done this myself some.
2005-05-08 04:35 | User Profile
na Gaeil is gile
You are right for the most part. [QUOTE]Good post Howling Privateer, unfortunately the 19th century racialists will have their little delusions. Then average European nation is no less ââ¬Ëmongrelââ¬â¢ than the USA. In the European context a nation is a cultural construct first and a blood construct a distant second. The ââ¬Ëracialistââ¬â¢ dreck currently floating about the internet is based upon a form of 19th century romanticism -- national vanity in pseudo-scientific fancy dress -- that makes multicultism look like hard-nosed pragmatism.[/QUOTE]
I have made this point myself. European Americans are no more mixed than the French who are mix of Celts, Greeks, Romans, Germans and others. Some of other nations in are less mixed but European Americans no more mixed than the French. But I will add American should be Anglo-Saxon in nature.
2005-05-09 01:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Phantasm]Stormfront is a good example of how "controlled" the discussion process is on some of the boards now. Every time the discussion gets a little too controversial... the entire thread gets pulled. I'm not talking about vulgar posts either.
[/QUOTE]See [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showpost.php?p=112812&postcount=21[/url]
2005-05-09 12:27 | User Profile
**More warm fuzzies...LOL! **
"What we found, when we reached the small plaza in front of Faneiul Hall and Quincy Market, was some kind of flea market of progressive ideologies. There were communists, socialists and libertarians. There were anti-globalization protesters, anti-fascist activists, anti-racist white guys and anti-war organizations. There were protect the environment people, protect endangered species folks and stop exporting jobs fanatics. A knot of swarthy, well-dressed gentlemen were carrying signs advocating a "Free, secular, non-violent Middle East."
"We looked around at the bizarre collection of radical rabble with nothing better to do on Mother's Day, and saw the pitiful remnants of the once-proud American left.
The anarchists were an especially sorry bunch. Skinny and stunted and pale and withdrawn, we didn't se a one who could have given our grandmother a tussle in a dark alley. In their black scarves and ski masks they looked about as scary as teenaged Draculas on Halloween. They carried signs with creative comments like "Smash Nazis" and "Death to the Fascists."
"There were only about 12-15 of the Fascists. Although dressed in black like the Anarchists, it was easy to tell them apart - the Nazis were big guys, thick and tall and athletic looking.They were enclosed in a ring of about 20 cops."
"The crowd was not all anarchists, they were just in the front. Behind them were all the longhaired, hippie, jewish and leftist groups, as well as a nice leavening of clueless tourists asking "What's going on?" and several foreigners with borderline panic on their faces.
The anarchists were trying their best to get the crowd stirred up, and expand their ire from the Nazis to include the cops. They were clearly trying to cause a confrontation, but how could they get the rest of the crowd on their side if it came to a street battle? How to equate the cops and the Nazis."
[url]http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/dowbrigade/2005/05/08#a5026[/url]
[url]http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2005/05/08/two_arrested_at_holocaust_commemoration_marred_by_protests/[/url]
More warm fuzzies: " The right wing has become confident in recent months, and this in turn has emboldened the far-right. The "Minutemen" were allowed to roam the Arizona borderland unopposed in their vigilante and racist hunt of Latinos suspected of being undocumented immigrants last month, leading to several episodes of human rights violations. In Boston, violence against gays and lesbians was up 30% last year. History has shown that if fascists are unopposed, they can gain a foothold and recruit others to their views. This in turn allows the "official" right wing to push forward their agenda (think: Death Penalty in Massachusetts, an end to gay marriage, etc.) and makes far right fascist politics even more accessible. We can stop this cycle by coming out in large numbers to demonstrate to the NAZIs that they are not welcome in our city and that they will not recruit a base of support here! This is exactly what was done by hundreds of activists when the NAZIs last came to town in 1994. They were run out of town and haven't been back for eleven years. We have to show them that they are still unwelcome in Boston!"
[url]http://www.radicalendar.org/group/bostonimc/all/display/31929/index.php?view=event&fulldate=2005-05-08[/url]
2005-05-09 16:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=RowdyRoddyPiper]Stupid analogy, portraying racial trends/issues as inevitable and unavoidable, like natural disasters or bad weather when in fact they are the result of deliberate policies that can and should be challenged.[/QUOTE] Well - I can't speak for the author, but in my view, a rebellion by the masses against the elites (ethnic elites, ability-wise elites) is inevitable; so is our counteraction. The only question is how to do it most effectively.
2005-05-09 16:37 | User Profile
[QUOTE=RowdyRoddyPiper]On the contrary, the Jewish gene pool is quite diverse:
[url="http://www.angeltowns.com/members/racialreal/jews.html"]http://www.angeltowns.com/members/racialreal/jews.html[/url][/QUOTE] [url]http://www.nazi.org/community/forum/YaBB.cgi?board=Chat;action=display;num=1115652867[/url]
2005-05-14 02:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]But I will add American should be Anglo-Saxon in nature.[/QUOTE] I agree with your sentiments but I wouldn't use the term Anglo-Saxon myself because that's an anachronistic blood grouping, but certainly 'British' in that culturally the USA (as a state) was founded largely on English institutions and the majority of the inhabitants (as a nation) came from the British Isles. The UK, USA, Canada, Australian, New Zealand and Ireland all share similar institutions and heritage in that respect. I would term these countries the "Anglosphere" and their inhabitants are largely interchangeable in modest numbers and with respect to the individual cultural norms.
We have in Ireland at the moment more English people per capita than Irish in the UK without any significant problems. Whereas there is a lot of resentment about Eastern Europeans (and needless to say extreme resentment about the Africans and Chinese).
So, by and large, the ââ¬ËWhiteââ¬â¢ racial grouping has itââ¬â¢s limitations and I believe cultural groupings take primacy. As an Irishman Iââ¬â¢d take people of Irish descent as a first preference, and members of the Anglosphere as a second preference (along with the Spanish and French for reasons specific to Ireland), and other Whites third (non-Whites need note apply) . Iââ¬â¢m sure Americans have their own preferences, but culture shouldnââ¬â¢t take second place to race :thumbsup:
2005-05-14 02:34 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Sorry then. I took your post for a general shotgun blast at the idea that White nationalities in Europe have any claim to be an extended family.[/QUOTE] No problem, there is a culture gap. In Europe racialism has different undertones than in the USA. Racialism in American is used a unifier for European Americans whereas in Europe itself it was used, and still is today by clowns and enemy agents, to demean Europeans in the name of national chauvinism. The most obvious modern example is German National Socialism versus the Slavs, but it goes back centuries before that. The English produced many ââ¬Ëscientificââ¬â¢ studies concerning the Irish as ââ¬ËWhite Negroesââ¬Ë, and I believe there is still some racial prejudice against the Mediterraneanââ¬â¢s in the USA today. The list goes on and on, basically in the 19th century if a European nation had a conflict with another European nation theyââ¬â¢d find a racial justification for it. 19th century racialism is like neo-cons whining about the French today - it has a self serving ethnic agenda.
2005-05-31 16:52 | User Profile
: I believe the reason White Nationalism hasn't gone anywhere is because WN's haven't given white people a good reason to be white nationalists. As long as the image of WN's as a bunch of whining, unemployed white people living in trailer parks nothing will change.
2005-06-01 03:54 | User Profile
I think one of the main reasons for White Nationalist failure has to with the very limited political program we have. Simply saying that one resents minorities and Jews is not a real political program. White Nationalism in the USA needs to be fleshed out with an anti-capitalist economic program that puts the interests of middle and working class Whites first. White Nationalists need a good trade program, a solution to the problems of the welfare system. We need to put forward an agricultural program. Nationalists need to develop a just and workable criminal justice policy. We have to give our people reasons to support us and just yelling nigger, nigger, jew, jew ain't gonna cut it.
2005-06-01 18:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]That seems to be a common thread of the WN board I've seen, Phora, SF, etc. There are a few logical people, but they seem drowned out by the lunatics who want to do nothing but talk endlessly.
That's one of the reasons I think above ground organizations of all sorts seem to avoid message boards, and the ones that succeed are heavily moderated (like FR). Most people aren't capable of translating talk into action.[/QUOTE] Well, ...look on bulletin boards, and find talkers, or people in talk-mode.
The real problem is organizing action.
WNs cannot agree on goals, who is "white," or what should be done, and that's what paralyzes them. Into the void comes paranoia, conspiracy theories, and other dysfunctional weirdness.
2005-06-01 18:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CornCod]I think one of the main reasons for White Nationalist failure has to with the very limited political program we have. Simply saying that one resents minorities and Jews is not a real political program. White Nationalism in the USA needs to be fleshed out with an anti-capitalist economic program that puts the interests of middle and working class Whites first. White Nationalists need a good trade program, a solution to the problems of the welfare system. We need to put forward an agricultural program. Nationalists need to develop a just and workable criminal justice policy. We have to give our people reasons to support us.[/QUOTE] I 100% endorse this statement, and think it was the point of the author of the article posted at the beginning of this thread.
Being "pro-white" is a political statement, but not a political platform.
How shall we go about forming a political platform?
2005-06-02 02:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CornCod]I think one of the main reasons for White Nationalist failure has to with the very limited political program we have. Simply saying that one resents minorities and Jews is not a real political program. White Nationalism in the USA needs to be fleshed out with an anti-capitalist economic program that puts the interests of middle and working class Whites first. White Nationalists need a good trade program, a solution to the problems of the welfare system. We need to put forward an agricultural program. Nationalists need to develop a just and workable criminal justice policy. We have to give our people reasons to support us and just yelling nigger, nigger, jew, jew ain't gonna cut it.[/QUOTE]
I agree compleltely. A WN platform comprising mainly of anti-Jew and anti-black is going nowhere. WN"s must be able to articulate what they for rather than establish their point in the negative. Otherwise, all that will be attracted will be a lot of angry people who want to blame others for their personal shortcomings,
2005-06-02 03:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]What's so strange about it? I haven't the least bit of tolerance for drooling, butt-kissing, zionist, "right wing" sycophants like Coutler, Hannity, O'Reilly, et al. even if they're anti-homo marriage. Those people have nothing in common with the average WN Joe.
I'd read commentary and/or listen to Noam Chomsky with more appreciation and understanding than a ranting psychotic nincompoop like Coulter.[/QUOTE]Same here! I subscribe to Progressive News, Green emails, and have tried getting memberships as an organisation for "Folk And Faith" within such Eco groups as Orion Online and Environment Magazine, though to no success yet. I feel much more akin to these folks on many levels, just that I am unequivocably Christian and a believer in Separatism, then I do Coulter, O'Reily, Bush or Limbaugh or any other of the yahoo's that represent neo-con-servativism.
As someone that advocates a third way of neither left nor right, I appreciate people like Buchanan and the "traditional right" as well as Chomsky and others on that side of the fence. Really, I do think we have a common enemy whether many like to admit it or not.
I thought the following comments from an old interview with a one time associate might offer up more clarity on the issue and elaborate on the 'common ground' or neither left nor right idea:
[left]WRM: Is ...working or willing to work with racial minority Organizations seeking racial autonomy? [/left] [left] [/left] [left] [/left]
[left]JP: Yes. We actually see more in common, ideologically, with groups like Nation of Islam, the New Black Panther Party or Atzlan than with the reactionaries like the Hollywood-style nazis or the Klan. In the past we've worked with Nation Of Islam and single issue Organizations like Earth First! and the Animal Liberation Front when the opportunity arose. I'm sure the future holds more common actions and Revolutionary coordination between our 'Front and others of like mind. [/left] [left] [/left] [left] [/left]
[left]WRM: the ... proudly proclaim to be a revolutionary organization. How would you go about telling whether an organization or group were legitimate revolutionaries or not? [/left] [left] [/left] [left] [/left]
[left]JP: Their economic stance would be the first thing I'd examine. If they are not in complete opposition to the Capitalist System, and that implies openly advocating some form of Socialism to protect the interests of the White worker, I'd avoid them regardless of their stance on Racial issues. You can't be a Revolutionary in this modern age without standing against the rule of Gold. Period. Next look at their views on collaboration with the System. Do they drone on about respect for law and order? Do they allow so-called "racist" police (pigs) in their camp? Are they active in helping create a Revolutionary environment behind the prison walls or do they forget or denounce their prisoners? Lastly, where are their heads at Racially? Do they bitch and moan and blame all of our people's problems on those of other races? Or do they look at the racial situation realistically. As A problem but not as THE problem. [/left]
2005-06-02 03:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CornCod]I think one of the main reasons for White Nationalist failure has to with the very limited political program we have. Simply saying that one resents minorities and Jews is not a real political program. White Nationalism in the USA needs to be fleshed out with an anti-capitalist economic program that puts the interests of middle and working class Whites first. White Nationalists need a good trade program, a solution to the problems of the welfare system. We need to put forward an agricultural program. Nationalists need to develop a just and workable criminal justice policy. We have to give our people reasons to support us and just yelling nigger, nigger, jew, jew ain't gonna cut it.[/QUOTE] Completely Agreed with!
2005-07-04 03:54 | User Profile
The problems with WNs are as follows: A) The media portrays the "movement" as a haven for freaks and losers; therefore, most freaks and losers naturally identify with it, thereby creating a self-fulfilling propechy. B) Unrealistic expectations: some think they can wave a magic wand and America will be an all White country free of Jews, liberals, homosexuals, etc., without taking the appropriate smaller steps necessary to achieve larger goals. C) Needless to say, a sometimes neurotic fixation on Hitler and the 3rd Reich. D) An aversion to religion. The fact is the Anglican Church alone has 75 million members and the largest WN organizitions never topped more than a thousand or so. Frankly, after over a decade of identifying myself as a WN, I truly want nothing to do with that "movement." Take a look at Resistance or VNN and tell me that those are people worth dealing with. Peruse SF for a while and you'll see that 90% of the people over there have no desire to ever do anything other than rant on a message board. Not to mention the low life degenerates like Bill White and Hal Turner who always seem to find their way to WNs. WNs is dead indeed. Not a single WNs organization based on the NS style leadership principle has every come remotely close to doing anything. We need a uniquely American solution to our problems and we definately need to focus on politics more and organizations less. Most people will never join an org, just about everyone votes at one time or another.
2005-07-04 04:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]The problems with WNs are as follows: A) The media portrays the "movement" as a haven for freaks and losers; therefore, most freaks and losers naturally identify with it, thereby creating a self-fulfilling propechy. B) Unrealistic expectations: some think they can wave a magic wand and America will be an all White country free of Jews, liberals, homosexuals, etc., without taking the appropriate smaller steps necessary to achieve larger goals. C) Needless to say, a sometimes neurotic fixation on Hitler and the 3rd Reich. D) An aversion to religion. The fact is the Anglican Church alone has 75 million members and the largest WN organizitions never topped more than a thousand or so. Frankly, after over a decade of identifying myself as a WN, I truly want nothing to do with that "movement." Take a look at Resistance or VNN and tell me that those are people worth dealing with. Peruse SF for a while and you'll see that 90% of the people over there have no desire to ever do anything other than rant on a message board. Not to mention the low life degenerates like Bill White and Hal Turner who always seem to find their way to WNs. WNs is dead indeed. Not a single WNs organization based on the NS style leadership principle has every come remotely close to doing anything. We need a uniquely American solution to our problems and we definately need to focus on politics more and organizations less. Most people will never join an org, just about everyone votes at one time or another.[/QUOTE]
Well, as I have said before, the White Nationalist movement is currently rather small because White people, as a group, are too "comfortable." As long as they have their TV shows and their movies and their nice houses in the suburbs, they don't really care about Jews or Blacks. [At least, they don't care until they read good information about Jews or Blacks].
However, their attitudes will change when Congress is full of minority congressmen, and they can't move into any neighborhood without living next door to negroes or other minorities.
In other words, White Nationalism is more or less in its infancy stage.
2005-07-04 04:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]We need a uniquely American solution to our problems and we definately need to focus on politics more and organizations less. Most people will never join an org, just about everyone votes at one time or another.[/QUOTE]Agreed. You bring up some good points. Right now I don't think there is a WN organization that I'd be willing to join or contribute to. There are, however, numerous magazines, books, & websites. And that's a good start.
I think it's all too easy to point fingers at the misfits, the posers, that WNism seems to attract. However, any movement is bound to be a beacon for such types, especially when there is no alternative. This isn't confined to WNs, either. American culture at the moment seems to deride anyone who wants to join an association or club. It's "uncool". But, in this age of alienation, you can't blame people for wanting to belong.
But there is another type of WN that is equally counter-productive. These are the self-styled theorists & intellectuals who would never stoop so low as to actually join a political organization or mingle with others less sophisticated as themselves. I don't see how effective these individuals can be, with this attitude.
I don't think we should give up on organizations. Man is a social animal, and the state of nature is society, so I don't think we can eliminate the need to belong, to join. I think a primary focus of WNs should be to form a stealth community, a network. Maybe the way to do this is for WNs to give up on forming explicitly WN organizations, and instead focus on succeeding in their career, building wealth, forming families, and getting involved in the local school board, professional organization, community association, church group, gun club, political party, etc.
2005-07-04 04:52 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Well, as I have said before, the White Nationalist movement is currently rather small because White people, as a group, are too "comfortable." As long as they have their TV shows and their movies and their nice houses in the suburbs, they don't really care about Jews or Blacks. [At least, they don't care until they read good information about Jews or Blacks]. Well they may appear comfortable. Certainly they have enough they are cautious about jeopardizing it, for programs and groups that seem wild eyed and crazy.
[QUOTE]However, their attitudes will change when Congress is full of minority congressmen, and they can't move into any neighborhood without living next door to negroes or other minorities.[/QUOTE]No, by then it will be too late.
In other words, White Nationalism is more or less in its infancy stage. --------[/QUOTE]Where its been for the last several decades. Arrested development is more like it.
I tend to think you're evaluating the WN movement too much by yourself. But you may be a pretty good reflection in a lot of ways of a movement which consists of the puerlile histornics of people like Linder and nothing more substantive.
Movements succeed when they can are led by real people, offering the real hope of real things to other real people. Just the opposite of today's WN movement, which is expressly designed to ensure this will not happen.
2005-07-04 05:22 | User Profile
A set back is main line is always about jews,jews and more jews, and non-Whites. Never anything else, Tom Metzger ran and won in his area on a openly racist platform but also ran on a variety of issues, from the ecosystem to taxes, the mexican flood,etc. One of the reasons the marxists got so far in America is because when the racial movement went rightwing capitalism and aimed for the rich and upper to middle class, which is pointless the marxists went after the working classes and youth.
2005-07-04 06:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ron]: I believe the reason White Nationalism hasn't gone anywhere is because WN's haven't given white people a good reason to be white nationalists. As long as the image of WN's as a bunch of whining, unemployed white people living in trailer parks nothing will change.[/QUOTE]Until China and Japan pull the plug and sell all those treasury bonds!!!
Once they do, half the white population will be in the bread lines and the political landscape will not bear the slightest resemblance to that of the present day. When that day arrives, the choices will be either (i) the traditional solution put forward by all believers in the secular religion of equality, namely confiscatory taxation to finance continued priveleges for statutorily favored races coupled with expanded hate crimes laws and hate speech censorship applied to Whites only or (ii) WN, however embryonic it may be at that time.
The Republican Party is absolutely incapable of representing the practical interests of Republican voters, and will remain so in a crisis. Indeed, the average Republican politician still thinks that Whites are a priveleged elite with no interersts - as Republicans - which need representing.
They are largely unaware of the plight of Whites stuck in bad real estate and have absolutely no interest in protecting them from the ravages of reverse empire - ideologically driven measures to expand free trade that result in loss of market share and export of jobs, imperial wars driven by conceptual abstractions unrelated to our interests and financed by U.S. taxpayers, and official popular culture - subsidized by tax dollars - that reduces white birthrates to a crisis level.
It is impossible to imagine any of these issues being addressed in a meaningful way by so called conservatives or any part of the political spectrum embracing the ideologies of individualism, universalism, socialism or racial egalitarianism.
But addressed they will be.
2005-07-04 06:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=neoclassical]
There is NO such a thing as THE white race.
[...]
I believe that ALL races should have the right to live in their own homeland as a distinct group with full sovereignty.... regardless of skin color. My loyalty however lies with the Germanic people, and no other people.
[url="http://www.phora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9671"]http://www.phora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9671[/url][/QUOTE] According to US Census data, German-Americans make up the largest ethnic group in the USA. Next are English-Americans. I myself am a German-American descended primarily from Germans who immigrated to the USA before the beginning of the Prussian Empire in 1871. And I am proud of my German and English heritage even though I am most proud of my American heritage.
With that said, in both Europe and the USA so-called "whites" had better start having babies, or soon they will simply be shoved aside by peoples who do. I know that here in the USA, first and second generation Hispanic immigrants from Mexico and further south are having large families, having fewer abortions per capita than their white neighbors, working hard, and taking care of their burgeoning families. Soon they will just out populate the original European immigrants to the USA. I think that something similar is happening in Europe among their immigrant populations, primarily Islamic.
It seems to me that a lot of so-called "whites" would be better served by some action in having and raising large families than merely wringing their hands about how awful the influx of non-whites is.
2005-07-04 06:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]Peruse SF for a while and you'll see that 90% of the people over there have no desire to ever do anything other than rant on a message board. Not to mention the low life degenerates like Bill White and Hal Turner who always seem to find their way to WNs. WNs is dead indeed.[/QUOTE]Not quite.
Actually 50,000 people have registered as Stormfront members and we know a great deal about them. 60% are college graduates (4 years or more) and the vast majority do not post and for excellent reasons. They have jobs and do not want to lose them.
The vast majority of SFers do not post because they cannot. They have not become political activists because they do not have the time and cannot take the risk.
All of you here who assume that somehow converts to WN can openly advocate that position are delusional. WN political activity results in fines and jail time in most of Europe and fines and official harrasment in Canada.
In America, punishment for WN views is confined to job loss - which for most Americans is a near certainty if their views are made public.
As a result most of the posters on SF are, as you would expect, those with "little left to lose" - and with outsized personal needs for peer recognition and affirmation.
The result is that Stormfront is a giant subway leading to no destination. It has giant potential, but the board itself is subject to constant denial of service attacks from all over the world, constant harrassing demand letters from lawyers, occasional lawsuits, and occasional firings of anonymous posters when their identities are exposed by local television. While Stormfront is not directly illegal in the U.S., the private and public systems for the repression of its activities are well worked out and well orchestrated.
Thus, to criticise WN for its immaturity, and the thinness and clutter of its content under the present circumstances is a bit unfair.
But ultimately it all boils down to this: Who ya gonna call years hence when your grandsons routinely have the hell beat out of them by minority gangs, your grandaugters routinely are muscled into having sex with the beasts, and your socialist White hating elites confiscate your wealth to support those predators and keep them from getting even more violent?
Your white suburbs will not hold and we all know it.
It is delusional to think that they will.
2005-07-04 14:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Yggdrasil]Not quite.
Actually 50,000 people have registered as Stormfront members and we know a great deal about them. 60% are college graduates (4 years or more) and the vast majority do not post and for excellent reasons. They have jobs and do not want to lose them.
The vast majority of SFers do not post because they cannot. They have not become political activists because they do not have the time and cannot take the risk.
All of you here who assume that somehow converts to WN can openly advocate that position are delusional. WN political activity results in fines and jail time in most of Europe and fines and official harrasment in Canada.
In America, punishment for WN views is confined to job loss - which for most Americans is a near certainty if their views are made public.
As a result most of the posters on SF are, as you would expect, those with "little left to lose" - and with outsized personal needs for peer recognition and affirmation.
The result is that Stormfront is a giant subway leading to no destination. It has giant potential, but the board itself is subject to constant denial of service attacks from all over the world, constant harrassing demand letters from lawyers, occasional lawsuits, and occasional firings of anonymous posters when their identities are exposed by local television. While Stormfront is not directly illegal in the U.S., the private and public systems for the repression of its activities are well worked out and well orchestrated.
Thus, to criticise WN for its immaturity, and the thinness and clutter of its content under the present circumstances is a bit unfair.
But ultimately it all boils down to this: Who ya gonna call years hence when your grandsons routinely have the hell beat out of them by minority gangs, your grandaugters routinely are muscled into having sex with the beasts, and your socialist White hating elites confiscate your wealth to support those predators and keep them from getting even more violent?
Your white suburbs will not hold and we all know it.
It is delusional to think that they will.[/QUOTE] I agree that the quality of the average SFer is heads and shoulders above other WN boards. Even with that, the success on that board is do to a handful of people including Don Black, David Duke, Jamie Kelso and others. Most won't even send in $5 a month for sustaining membership and the bulk of the donations probably come from LCR, Joy Tree and people like yourself. Then take a look at the organizations. The NA in its heyday had close to 2,000 members and most groups struggled to claim 100 members. I've talked to older WNs who said straight out that they have never seen the "movement" in such bad shape before. Frankly, if it weren't for the recent activity from EURO, and the continued survival of Stormfront, the "movement" would probably fade away quickly. As far as your assertion that most people don't post or contribute due to the fear that they will lose their jobs, there are people like myself, John Law, Rich Lindstrom and others who use our real names and haven't suffered on the workfront for it. And, of course, there are people with sensitive jobs who should never come out, but that doesn't mean that they can't contribute in other ways. You were writing and donating for years before revealing your true identity on Stormfront. Anyway, for all of WNs brilliant minds, it has never built the infrastructure or membership necessary to achieve anything. Meanwhile, over in Europe, many countries have thriving nationalist parties that have the potential to actually change things for our people. If that can happen in the socialist republics of Europe where thoughtcrimes are part of everyday life, we in America should be able to do so too.
2005-07-04 14:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Stuka]Agreed. You bring up some good points. Right now I don't think there is a WN organization that I'd be willing to join or contribute to. There are, however, numerous magazines, books, & websites. And that's a good start.
I think it's all too easy to point fingers at the misfits, the posers, that WNism seems to attract. However, any movement is bound to be a beacon for such types, especially when there is no alternative. This isn't confined to WNs, either. American culture at the moment seems to deride anyone who wants to join an association or club. It's "uncool". But, in this age of alienation, you can't blame people for wanting to belong.
But there is another type of WN that is equally counter-productive. These are the self-styled theorists & intellectuals who would never stoop so low as to actually join a political organization or mingle with others less sophisticated as themselves. I don't see how effective these individuals can be, with this attitude.
I don't think we should give up on organizations. Man is a social animal, and the state of nature is society, so I don't think we can eliminate the need to belong, to join. I think a primary focus of WNs should be to form a stealth community, a network. Maybe the way to do this is for WNs to give up on forming explicitly WN organizations, and instead focus on succeeding in their career, building wealth, forming families, and getting involved in the local school board, professional organization, community association, church group, gun club, political party, etc.[/QUOTE] No, I don't think we should give up on organizations either as right now they are the only thing we've got going. Personally, this year I have donated money to SF, NV, the CofCC and EURO as these orgs/boards serve a good purpose in spreading an important message that the mainstream media won't touch. Yes, there will always be a place for WNs orgs in outreach, selling books, flyering, etc., but they are not, nor ever will, be a permanent solution for us. In a democracy, it's not always the majority that wins, it's the most organized and disciplined people who triumph. We need to operate on many levels; most importantly in politics.
2005-07-04 15:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Yggdrasil]In America, punishment for WN views is confined to job loss - which for most Americans is a near certainty if their views are made public.
As a result most of the posters on SF are, as you would expect, those with "little left to lose" - and with outsized personal needs for peer recognition and affirmation.
The result is that Stormfront is a giant subway leading to no destination. Well Stormfront posters are cantakerous lot, that certainly seems to be true. As a result SF must be moderated and censored quite heavily to keep people away from each other throats, as I complained [URL=http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17820&highlight=Stormfront]here[/URL]
What you are basically saying here is that active Stormfront posters, and probably even more actual above ground, dues paying members of WN organizations, constitute sort of a [I]lumpem-proletariat [/I] of sorts, which historically furnishes a poor basis of course for political movements of any sort. At least a sort of modern day equivalent in America consisting of the dispossed and rootless of some sort, even though one can't be entirely without resources to participate on the internet. And that certainly is a big problem in WN ranks, as with fringe and 3rd party movements of all sorts actually. You get a motley assortment of all the quarrelsome people with axes to grind - ideological dogmatists, interracial pornographers, bored/spoile d college students - cantankerous old Birchers and similar - and expect them to form a viable movement ad cohesive movement.
It is certainly true that white people face injustices in this country, but injustices themselves I think are seldom enough to create a viable political movement representing such. You need what Lenin called "a revolutionary vanguard" composed of people of real ability who tend more toward their social mainstream. I think that is why so often such movements are led by sub-cultures which as a group feel alienated from society. Within this sub-culture resistance becomes acceptable, and one no longer is socially isolated, which is a great advantage in creating a political leadership class. Jews constituted such a sub-culture in czarist Russia, ex-military officers did in Weimar Germany, and thus dominated russian communism and german national socialism respectively.
Failing that reality, which provides for an expedited system of producing revolutionary leaders, one must adopt more modest goals, as indeed the european socialists did at the time of Marx, working through existing institutions. And the biggest obstacle to such a strategy can be the cantakerous absolutists who tend to dominate such movements. That is why after all Lenin wrote "leftism, an infantile disease" really a classic indictment of all the psychological tendencies of movement schismatics.
It certainly is very hard to lead such movements by democratic tactics, that seems to be one hard lesson learned from successful movements I think. That's the fundamental weakness of the internet. At least one of them.
It has giant potential, but the board itself is subject to constant denial of service attacks from all over the world, constant harrassing demand letters from lawyers, occasional lawsuits, and occasional firings of anonymous posters when their identities are exposed by local television. While Stormfront is not directly illegal in the U.S., the private and public systems for the repression of its activities are well worked out and well orchestrated.
Thus, to criticise WN for its immaturity, and the thinness and clutter of its content under the present circumstances is a bit unfair.
But ultimately it all boils down to this: Who ya gonna call years hence ......[/QUOTE]To all these weaknesses, you might add of course that successful movements and leaders can figure on being targeted by the government for direct subversion/inflitration, and other tactics of disruption. I have always suspected that the reason much of WN leadership is incompetent is that AP's within the organizations must work in some fairly clever ways to isolate potentially effective leaders, and ensure incompetents, assume power. Gliebe and Walker certainly come to mind as incompetent leaders, even though they came directly from Pierce.
2005-07-05 00:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=JohnWRedelfs]According to US Census data, German-Americans make up the largest ethnic group in the USA. Next are English-Americans. I myself am a German-American descended primarily from Germans who immigrated to the USA before the beginning of the Prussian Empire in 1871. And I am proud of my German and English heritage even though I am most proud of my American heritage.
With that said, in both Europe and the USA so-called "whites" had better start having babies, or soon they will simply be shoved aside by peoples who do. I know that here in the USA, first and second generation Hispanic immigrants from Mexico and further south are having large families, having fewer abortions per capita than their white neighbors, working hard, and taking care of their burgeoning families. Soon they will just out populate the original European immigrants to the USA. I think that something similar is happening in Europe among their immigrant populations, primarily Islamic.
It seems to me that a lot of so-called "whites" would be better served by some action in having and raising large families than merely wringing their hands about how awful the influx of non-whites is.[/QUOTE] there is another alternative, :gunsmilie
2005-07-05 03:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=G.Larson]A set back is main line is always about jews,jews and more jews, and non-Whites. Never anything else, Tom Metzger ran and won in his area on a openly racist platform but also ran on a variety of issues, from the ecosystem to taxes, the mexican flood,etc. One of the reasons the marxists got so far in America is because when the racial movement went rightwing capitalism and aimed for the rich and upper to middle class, which is pointless the marxists went after the working classes and youth.[/QUOTE]
Well Larson, what's so extrange about "the main lines always being about Jews, Jews and more Jews?"
For being 3% of the population they created 78% of ALL problems, not only in the US but also worldwide......how do you think we are going to react to that?
2005-07-05 09:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]What you are basically saying here is that active Stormfront posters, and probably even more actual above ground, dues paying members of WN organizations, constitute sort of a [I]lumpem-proletariat [/I] of sorts, which historically furnishes a poor basis of course for political movements of any sort. At least a sort of modern day equivalent in America consisting of the dispossed and rootless of some sort, even though one can't be entirely without resources to participate on the internet. And that certainly is a big problem in WN ranks, as with fringe and 3rd party movements of all sorts actually. You get a motley assortment of all the quarrelsome people with axes to grind - ideological dogmatists, interracial pornographers, bored/spoile d college students - cantankerous old Birchers and similar - and expect them to form a viable movement ad cohesive movement.
It is certainly true that white people face injustices in this country, but injustices themselves I think are seldom enough to create a viable political movement representing such. You need what Lenin called "a revolutionary vanguard" composed of people of real ability who tend more toward their social mainstream. I think that is why so often such movements are led by sub-cultures which as a group feel alienated from society. Within this sub-culture resistance becomes acceptable, and one no longer is socially isolated, which is a great advantage in creating a political leadership class. Jews constituted such a sub-culture in czarist Russia, ex-military officers did in Weimar Germany, and thus dominated russian communism and german national socialism respectively.
Failing that reality, which provides for an expedited system of producing revolutionary leaders, one must adopt more modest goals, as indeed the european socialists did at the time of Marx, working through existing institutions. And the biggest obstacle to such a strategy can be the cantakerous absolutists who tend to dominate such movements. That is why after all Lenin wrote "leftism, an infantile disease" really a classic indictment of all the psychological tendencies of movement schismatics.[/QUOTE]
Marker bump.
2005-07-05 10:22 | User Profile
Yes Iam aware of the jews, but making them the only issue is wrong if a person looks at Hitler's platform the jews where part of the issues not the sole one. Stone hand method works better and we have many problems besides jews. The fact is our own race is selling itself out, the masses of the plutocrat's have been are still are White gentiles, the jews have traditionally played the second fiddle to the corrupt White rulers. The White upper class treats there own people like the jews treat the goyium. A virus can only take hold in a already degenerate body, but not in healthy one.
Even if all the jews and groids dropped dead today, we would still have most of the problems with us.
THE WHITE RACE IS THE PROBLEM AND SOLUTION.
[QUOTE=Ponce]Well Larson, what's so extrange about "the main lines always being about Jews, Jews and more Jews?"
For being 3% of the population they created 78% of ALL problems, not only in the US but also worldwide......how do you think we are going to react to that?[/QUOTE]
2005-07-05 12:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=G.Larson]
THE WHITE RACE IS THE PROBLEM AND SOLUTION.[/QUOTE]
Thank goodness for a healthy dose of common sense. Jews have been successful as an ethnic group only wherein we Whites have failed. There seem to be two different takes on Jews: one is to blame them for everything bad under the sun; the other is to say that they are no different from any other group and just happen to practice a unique religion. The reality lies somewhere between these two extremes and we would do well to discuss the issue rationally. Finally, most people aren't join to join a movement that's sole purpose is to oppose an abstract concept like Jews; they want to know how our ideas will help them in the here and now. We need a broad, well rounded program to bring the majority of our people in.
2005-07-05 20:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]Thank goodness for a healthy dose of common sense. Jews have been successful as an ethnic group only wherein we Whites have failed. There seem to be two different takes on Jews: one is to blame them for everything bad under the sun; the other is to say that they are no different from any other group and just happen to practice a unique religion. The reality lies somewhere between these two extremes and we would do well to discuss the issue rationally. Rationally between the two extremes, Linder nothing but "name the jew" and mainstream GOP "nothing but love the jew". That's us.
most people aren't join to join a movement that's sole purpose is to oppose an abstract concept like Jews; they want to know how our ideas will help them in the here and now. We need a broad, well rounded program to bring the majority of our people in.[/QUOTE]Like Buchanism and paleoconservatism in general have always attempted to offer. However our numbers are small enough we generally have to focus on a few core principles.
2005-07-05 20:51 | User Profile
I've probably said this before, but the strongest knock on white nationalism in my view is probably the current lack of a "white we." White people by and large don't think in terms of "we" or "us." They think in terms of 1) themselves as individuals, 2) as a member of the Smith family, 2) as an employee of CompanyCo (or as a doctor, a software designer, etc.), as an American, a San Franciscan, a resident of Cochise County, etc. Press them on "white" and many balk, insisting they're "one-eighth Indian," Irish, Italian, Greek, etc. But not white.
Without a "we," there's no progress.
But of course, "white" is a perfectly defensible category --- anyone who's of predominately European ancestry and isn't a member of a hostile ethnicity. But it is leaky, and probably leakier than "black" (but probably tighter than "Hispanic"). On the other hand, there cannot possibly be an American resistance or renaissance based on "Irish" or "Greek" --- the numbers are too small.
So part of our task is to cultivate the "we" plants.
2005-07-05 21:54 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hugh Lincoln]I've probably said this before, but the strongest knock on white nationalism in my view is probably the current lack of a "white we." White people by and large don't think in terms of "we" or "us." They think in terms of 1) themselves as individuals, 2) as a member of the Smith family, 2) as an employee of CompanyCo (or as a doctor, a software designer, etc.), as an American, a San Franciscan, a resident of Cochise County, etc. Press them on "white" and many balk, insisting they're "one-eighth Indian," Irish, Italian, Greek, etc. But not white.
Without a "we," there's no progress.......So part of our task is to cultivate the "we" plants.[/QUOTE]This mindset is of course a direct result of Frankfurt School conditioning for white individualism and against cohesiveness in general, and especially against ethnic cohesiveness. As this mindset is now forcefully programmed into American schoolkids by diversity and multiculturalist education with a multibillion dollar budget, the chances of a few activist cultivating this culture on their own are rather miniscule.
Of course the odd thing is the lack of this "we" thing characterizes if anything the WN movement with special effect. As mamy have noted you could make a good argument that for this reason today's WN movement is one of the chief enemies of the white race. Perhaps one of the reason WN is doing so much better behind the former iron curtain is the successful suppression of this movement during the years of police state rule.
2005-07-06 16:49 | User Profile
I actually think that one of the big problems with the pro-white movement is infighting. Although I understand that the ideologies are incompatible with the different groups so I expect this. But the thing is that some degree of cooperation is necessary for success. I'm not saying that the different groups will ever like each other, they likely never will, but I just think, as I said, some degree of cooperation is necessary.
2005-07-06 17:03 | User Profile
Kane? I never make coments about what you people write here because I feel that it is a waste of time but this time I will.
YOU ARE SO RIGHT,as in Germany back in the 30's you people need a symbol or a light in order to attract all those who feel like you do, in the case of Germany it was Herr Hitler who brought together all the different partys in order to unite them as one and for one purpose or goal.
Even if you people don't like a person or his group as long as he thinks as you do and you feel that he can do the job then by all means then choose him.
Not every one can be an Indian Chief. :wub:
2005-07-06 17:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE=kane123123]I actually think that one of the big problems with the pro-white movement is infighting.[/QUOTE]
For this to be true, that infighting would have to be the proximate cause of a message or leadership failure that wasn't going to happen otherwise. I doubt this is the case. God bless the former National Alliance, but I wonder if it would have raced ahead to glory absent the personality fracas that caused its (official) demise. Maybe it would have progressed in some measure, but sadly, I think too many white folks would just be scared off by so uncompromising a position (and the six degrees of swastika separation), even factoring in Dr. Pierce's observation that vanguards can be a small percentage of the population.
The pro-white position needs to first hatch in the minds of men before anything else can happen.
2005-07-06 17:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=kane123123]I actually think that one of the big problems with the pro-white movement is infighting. Although I understand that the ideologies are incompatible with the different groups so I expect this. But the thing is that some degree of cooperation is necessary for success. I'm not saying that the different groups will ever like each other, they likely never will, but I just think, as I said, some degree of cooperation is necessary.[/QUOTE] There is no pro-White "movement" in America as far as I know. What passes for one today is a complete joke. Race is perhaps too big and abstract of a concept for people to rally behind; but nationalism is not. And ultimately nationalism and race are part and parcel of the same scheme. Therefore, we should emphasize what can be done in the here and now and organize based on nationalist politics and let the rest sort itself out.
2005-07-06 17:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hugh Lincoln]For this to be true, that infighting would have to be the proximate cause of a message or leadership failure that wasn't going to happen otherwise. I doubt this is the case. God bless the former National Alliance, but I wonder if it would have raced ahead to glory absent the personality fracas that caused its (official) demise. Maybe it would have progressed in some measure, but sadly, I think too many white folks would just be scared off by so uncompromising a position (and the six degrees of swastika separation), even factoring in Dr. Pierce's observation that vanguards can be a small percentage of the population.
The pro-white position needs to first hatch in the minds of men before anything else can happen.[/QUOTE] The problem with the NA festered long before the final breakup. There were always two camps in the NA -- National Vanguard vs. Resistance. Everyone had enough respect for Dr. Pierce and behaved themselves while he was alive, but without the father figure keeping members in line, the feuding eventually broke out along those lines. In reality, most of the NS types either went elsewhere or stayed with Gliebe/Walker while most of the mainstreamers went to NV.
2005-07-08 15:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE=neoclassical]Why White Nationalism is a Loser[/QUOTE]
When White Nationalism finds the correct memes, the correct audience, and a critical mass of sympathizers, it will eventually find success.
Here are some effective themes we can focus on:
Liberation
Self Preservation
Self Determination
Freedom of Association
Freedom of Disassociation
Peaceful Separation
Love, not hate
Our Inalienable Rights
Political, Legal, Financial, Social and Intellectual Activism
Whites are the real "minority"
Whites are just 8-10% of the worlds population
Averting White Extinction
Whites are shrinking fast
Only 2% of the women of childbearing age are White
Halting Immigration
Future Deportation
Our Group Interests
Legality
Respectability
Success
My favorite catchphrase:
"White people have rights too."
2005-07-11 11:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=G.Larson]Yes Iam aware of the jews, but making them the only issue is wrong if a person looks at Hitler's platform the jews where part of the issues not the sole one. Stone hand method works better and we have many problems besides jews. The fact is our own race is selling itself out, the masses of the plutocrat's have been and are still are White gentiles, the jews have traditionally played the second fiddle to the corrupt White rulers. The White upper class treats there own people like the jews treat the goyium. A virus can only take hold in a already degenerate body, but not in healthy one.
Even if all the jews and groids dropped dead today, we would still have most of the problems with us.
THE WHITE RACE IS THE PROBLEM AND SOLUTION.[/QUOTE] Exactly. [u]Herein lies both the malaise and the cure.[/u] **
Ultimately, whites have NO ONE to blame, but themselves, especially those who eagerly follow the racially suicidal and genocidal philosophy and practices of Marxist Liberalism.
2005-07-11 13:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Elite]When White Nationalism finds the correct memes, the correct audience, and a critical mass of sympathizers, it will eventually find success.
Here are some effective themes we can focus on:
Liberation
Self Preservation
Self Determination
Freedom of Association
Freedom of Disassociation
Peaceful Separation
Love, not hate
Our Inalienable Rights
Political, Legal, Financial, Social and Intellectual Activism
Whites are the real "minority"
Whites are just 8-10% of the worlds population
Averting White Extinction
Whites are shrinking fast
Only 2% of the women of childbearing age are White
Halting Immigration
Future Deportation
Our Group Interests
Legality
Respectability
Success
My favorite catchphrase:
"White people have rights too."[/QUOTE]
All fine memes, WE. But let's not let the Jews off the hook too fast, Margate. I don't think it's quite true that whites have "no one" to blame for their predicament. Yes, whites have work to do. Yes, simply complaining about Jews is not enough. But some of us will have to have some working understanding of them in order for us to progress. Where did this suicidal Marxist cult come from, anyway?
2005-07-13 16:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE] There is no pro-White "movement" in America as far as I know. What passes for one today is a complete joke..[/QUOTE] Agreed. A complete, utter joke.
Lots of crackers are sick of what they see around them, but who can they turn to? "The Movement"? Not ****ing likely. "The Movement" has got lots of internal [size=-1]restructuring to do before it becomes anything resembling a practical, viable political alternative to the masses. [/size]
2005-07-13 17:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Strasser]Agreed. A complete, utter joke.
Lots of crackers are sick of what they see around them, but who can they turn to? "The Movement"? Not ****ing likely. "The Movement" has got lots of internal [size=-1]restructuring to do before it becomes anything resembling a practical, viable political alternative to the masses. [/size][/QUOTE] I tell you, if we could offer a viable, honest and accountable alternative to the old "movement," patriotic Americans would flock to it in droves. It must focus on American values instead of trying to superimpose foreign ideologies on us; speak to people in practical terms about issues that can be solved; establish organizational structures immune from personal greed and power struggles; and, most importantly, disassociate itself from all criminal/unsavory elements in our society. Also, we must not be so arrogant as to think of ourselves as "awakened" and everyone else as "sheeple" and set up self-imposed barriers between us and mainstream conservatives. There are many like Pat Buchanan or Tom Tancredo who would never embrace a pro-white platform, but, who are nonetheless, valuable allies in our fight to close the borders and preserve American culture.
2005-07-13 20:35 | User Profile
[QUOTE]I tell you, if we could offer a viable, honest and accountable alternative to the old "movement," patriotic Americans would flock to it in droves.[/QUOTE] Could very well be the case. I know arguing about this is just Spinning Wheels, but the potential for mass recruitment seems to be there. People, though, are not going to dress up and play Nazi. Not Middle Class America. Ain't. Gonna. Happen. [QUOTE]Also, we must not be so arrogant as to think of ourselves as "awakened" and everyone else as "sheeple" and set up self-imposed barriers between us and mainstream conservatives. [/QUOTE] Yes. And how often is it stated that The Movement doesn't need Joe Six Pack, and Salley Soccer Mom? You know, "sheeple". Well, I'm thinking those are exactly the types WN's need to appeal to. Won't happen when the face of The Movement is a stiff-armed salute and a tank top.
2005-07-13 21:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]I tell you, if we could offer a viable, honest and accountable alternative to the old "movement," patriotic Americans would flock to it in droves.[/QUOTE]An American Nationalist movement, which focuses on what the majority of Americans are concerned about - their jobs, education, living areas, etc. A progressive movement. Nazi Germany has seen its day and the 1950's are long gone.
[QUOTE=Strasser]Could very well be the case. I know arguing about this is just Spinning Wheels, but the potential for mass recruitment seems to be there. People, though, are not going to dress up and play Nazi. Not Middle Class America. Ain't. Gonna. Happen. Yes. And how often is it stated that The Movement doesn't need Joe Six Pack, and Salley Soccer Mom? You know, "sheeple". Well, I'm thinking those are exactly the types WN's need to appeal to. Won't happen when the face of The Movement is a stiff-armed salute and a tank top.[/QUOTE]Something that always struck me as funny is that much of the "movement" complains that there aren't enough numbers, yet are quick to exclude the Joe and Jane Six Packs. Many Joe and Jane Six Packs aren't as much of "sheeple" as the "movement" hypes them up to be. They worry about their jobs, education, and their children's future just as we do. Let's face it - we do need to appeal to the masses if we're going to get anywhere. A little group of chest-beaters who pine for the old ways and refuse to adapt to the new aren't going to save us.
2005-07-13 22:19 | User Profile
Nick Griffin's BNP seems to have responded to the recent events in London in an admirable way. Is there a US party anything like the BNP? I suppose Duke would be the closest thing here to Griffin, in that he has tried to enter the electoral system. Mark my words: if we make it to 2008, immigration and related topics will be VERY important.
2005-07-14 01:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=cygnus]Nick Griffin's BNP seems to have responded to the recent events in London in an admirable way. Is there a US party anything like the BNP? I suppose Duke would be the closest thing here to Griffin, in that he has tried to enter the electoral system. Mark my words: if we make it to 2008, immigration and related topics will be VERY important.[/QUOTE] We have nothing in the US like the BNP, I'm afraid.
2005-07-14 03:03 | User Profile
[QUOTE]A little group of chest-beaters who pine for the old ways and refuse to adapt to the new aren't going to save us.[/QUOTE] No. However, they're firmly integrated into the infrastructure of....The Movement...And while I wouldn't want to throw out the baby with the bath water, as there are lots of good people in...The Movement...I can't see an alternative to simply starting over from scratch. Or something.
2005-07-14 03:23 | User Profile
I also think people need to wake up to the fact that there are different types of Jews. There are Sephardic, Ashkenazi, and some that are simply gentiles in denial. To say that this all encompases a uniform race reeks of lack of observation. No one is more anti-semetic than me but people need to face the facts.
Of course, since I'm not a National Socialist I can say this. I'm a conservative, not a National Socialist.
2005-07-14 03:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Strasser]No. However, they're firmly integrated into the infrastructure of....The Movement...And while I wouldn't want to throw out the baby with the bath water, as there are lots of good people in...The Movement...I can't see an alternative to simply starting over from scratch. Or something.[/QUOTE] I agree that we need an alternative to the "movement." It's a shame that we need to use such derisive quotations around that word, but it's the truth. Let that "movement" carry on and we can build something next to it that will address the concerns of Americans in a palpable manner while leaving the rest to play dress up Nazi elsewhere. We need an American nationalists counterpart to the BNP in a big way. So far the CofCC seems to be heading in the right direction.
2005-07-14 04:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=kane123123]I also think people need to wake up to the fact that there are different types of Jews. There are Sephardic, Ashkenazi, and some that are simply gentiles in denial. To say that this all encompases a uniform race reeks of lack of observation. No one is more anti-semetic than me but people need to face the facts.
Of course, since I'm not a National Socialist I can say this. I'm a conservative, not a National Socialist.[/QUOTE]
About 90 percent of all Jews are of one race [known as Ashkenazim, also known as Eastern Jews, also known as Russian Jews]. But that race is a hybrid race.
2005-07-14 04:10 | User Profile
I partially agree but the race isn't Jew, the race is Ashkenazi. The religion is Jew.
But I don't agree about the Russian part. Most Russian "Jews" come from converted Hazarians (an Asian Tribe).
2005-07-14 04:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=kane123123]I partially agree but the race isn't Jew, the race is Ashkenazi. The religion is Jew.
But I don't agree about the Russian part. Most Russian "Jews" come from converted Hazarians (an Asian Tribe).[/QUOTE]
I think their religion is Judaism.
2005-07-14 04:28 | User Profile
lol, you aren't teaching me anything new. If I wanted to use the term Judaism I would have.
2005-07-14 13:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Strasser]No. However, they're firmly integrated into the infrastructure of....The Movement...And while I wouldn't want to throw out the baby with the bath water, as there are lots of good people in...The Movement...I can't see an alternative to simply starting over from scratch. Or something.[/QUOTE]There are indeed lots of good people in the movement. I met most of them at the Euro Conference. There were people there that want to do new and bigger things. But seriously, how long have we had something that could be considered a "movement," and how far has it gone? A movement is something that moves forward, that progresses. Can you honestly we've moved forward in any way, when so many are trying to relive the past (A past that they weren't even around for, mind you)?
The "little group" I was referring to that you quoted me on is a group of people that sit around tooting their own horns, do nothing for the cause but complain about everything under the sun and spout out alarmist BS, on top of making us look bad and holding us back. They think that they can just say "screw you all" to the masses, the "sheeple," and that they're the only ones that'll be able to make a difference.
It's time to run with the winners, the people who want to move forward and do new and big things.
2005-07-14 18:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Can you honestly we've moved forward in any way, when so many are trying to relive the past (A past that they weren't even around for, mind you)?[/QUOTE] No. The decades keep climbing, and we're just as marginalized as ever. I understand the impact of the media. I know that they will slander anyone advancing White interests as a Nazi, a word that has become a [size=-1]euphemism for everything unholy. But you have to wonder just how far they will get if they continue to shoot the Nazi bullet at...The Movement...and yet, there are no swastikas, no shaved heads, no stiff-armed salutes to be found. Just average, middle class dorks. Eventually, I suspect, a form of [/size]cognitive dissonance will creep into the brains of all those chumps so eager to devour what Mr. Television dishes up for them.
[QUOTE]They think that they can just say "screw you all" to the masses, the "sheeple," and that they're the only ones that'll be able to make a difference.[/QUOTE] I know. Lots of "At least I'm out there standing for what I believe in" speeches, too. That's fine I suppose. It does take balls to parade around in a Nazi costume. But, does it matter that for every socially dysfunctional creep you attract, you repulse a thousand healthy White families? No, of course not, they're just sheep.
** The Movement** is just going round and round: a few creeps join here, a few misfits drop out there. In the end, it's all a rollercoaster ride: it's a thrill while you're on it, but you get off right where you jumped on. In other words: You went nowhere. Something has got to change.
2005-07-14 18:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hugh Lincoln] Where did this suicidal Marxist cult come from, anyway?[/QUOTE]Marx and Engels. One man Jewish and the other man German.
By the logic of most "white nationalists", we may as well as just blame "German Communism" for our problems.
Also, Marx and Engels were just building on the ideas of Hegel, who was also a German.
2005-07-14 18:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Strasser] I understand the impact of the media. I know that they will slander anyone advancing White interests as a Nazi[/QUOTE] Yes, because many of them really are neo-nazis.
2005-07-14 21:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Elite]Marx and Engels. One man Jewish and the other man German.
By the logic of most "white nationalists", we may as well as just blame "German Communism" for our problems.
Also, Marx and Engels were just building on the ideas of Hegel, who was also a German.[/QUOTE]
Nah. Socialism or communism want for much as political and economic systems, but it's largely in the hands of Jews that they were such potent weapons against whites --- or were exercised as covert anti-gentile systems. That's relevant. Whites put socialism down as a nicey-nice way to "share" stuff. Jews put it down as a way to dynamite white cultural, political and economic structures. So watching how Jews pick up neoconservatism or whatever else they decide to seize is desperately relevant for us.
2005-07-22 11:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Elite]Yes, because many of them really are neo-nazis.[/QUOTE]The term "neo-nazi" has no meaning. Furthermore, 'Anti-Semitism' is not a Nazi concept either. When the Germans invaded Poland in 1939 they were fighting against Polish Anti-Semites. According to today's ridiculous definitions "Nazi Germans must have been battling Nazi Poles". During the war the Communist Parties all over western Europe began effectively tricking the White masses into believing that "only Nazis are Anti-Semitic" and this form of intimidation reduced the resistance of Whites all over the world to Jewish pushes for greater power. You talk to people these days and they speak as though Nazis invented the concept of resistance to Jews. Only a naive media-fed population could believe such absurdities.
2005-07-22 12:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Strasser]No. The decades keep climbing, and we're just as marginalized as ever. I understand the impact of the media. I know that they will slander anyone advancing White interests as a Nazi, a word that has become a [size=-1]euphemism for everything unholy. But you have to wonder just how far they will get if they continue to shoot the Nazi bullet at...The Movement...and yet, there are no swastikas, no shaved heads, no stiff-armed salutes to be found. Just average, middle class dorks. Eventually, I suspect, a form of [/size]cognitive dissonance will creep into the brains of all those chumps so eager to devour what Mr. Television dishes up for them.
I know. Lots of "At least I'm out there standing for what I believe in" speeches, too. That's fine I suppose. It does take balls to parade around in a Nazi costume. But, does it matter that for every socially dysfunctional creep you attract, you repulse a thousand healthy White families? No, of course not, they're just sheep.
The Movement is just going round and round: a few creeps join here, a few misfits drop out there. In the end, it's all a rollercoaster ride: it's a thrill while you're on it, but you get off right where you jumped on. In other words: You went nowhere. Something has got to change.[/QUOTE]The movement attracts freaks because only freaks are comfortable with holding opinions which will cause them to be hated by family, friends, and coworkers. People really need to start thinking about this: In public I can speak numerous odd opinions on art, music, religion, etc..but touch upon any racial issue and suddenly all of the media brainwashed people treat you as though they caught you molesting a child. That is simply not normal. So I can be a Jainist who has strange Indian rituals and refuses to eat meat and everyone says, "that's up to you, that's your life and your choice."...but say "I think America should be a majority White country" and people stop associating with you? They treat you like a murderer? And what harm have you done exactly?
The problem isn't that people are Anti-White personally, it is this media-conditioned reflex behavior of them feeling that they should STAMP OUT RACISM as a form of duty to who exactly?? Are they performing this service for the government? And yet they receive no pay for providing this Anti-Racist onslaught?
Why does a 17 year old girl breakup with her boyfriend if she finds out he is a "racist"? What does that mean and why is it so important to her? Why is his mere thought/opinion deemed so dangerous that she needs to stop seeing him?
And why are we so tolerant of so many other things? Imagine if you quit hanging out with a friend of yours because you found out that he didn't like the rock band "REO SPEEDWAGON"?? NO ONE ACTS LIKE THAT. What if Anti-Jewish or Anti-Black opinions were regarded by others with the same indifference as someone disliking their favorite rock band?
2005-07-22 12:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=kane123123]I also think people need to wake up to the fact that there are different types of Jews. There are Sephardic, Ashkenazi, and some that are simply gentiles in denial. To say that this all encompases a uniform race reeks of lack of observation. No one is more anti-semetic than me but people need to face the facts.
Of course, since I'm not a National Socialist I can say this. I'm a conservative, not a National Socialist.[/QUOTE] What is the definition of a "National Socialist"? I didn't know that the White movement was still preaching Slavic inferiority? If not, then why are we allowing the name "Nazi" to be applied to us when much of Nazi policy has now been deemed incompatible?
2005-07-22 12:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Strasser]Could very well be the case. I know arguing about this is just Spinning Wheels, but the potential for mass recruitment seems to be there. People, though, are not going to dress up and play Nazi. Not Middle Class America. Ain't. Gonna. Happen. Yes. And how often is it stated that The Movement doesn't need Joe Six Pack, and Salley Soccer Mom? You know, "sheeple". Well, I'm thinking those are exactly the types WN's need to appeal to. Won't happen when the face of The Movement is a stiff-armed salute and a tank top.[/QUOTE]The biggest problem is that the typical Salley Soccer Mom and Joe Six Pack if they are frustrated with the current situation, are voting REPUBLICAN because there is still the foolish perception that the Republicans must be the opposite of the Democrats and since the Democrats are so openly Pro-Minority, then the Republicans are definitely Pro-White! I know that there is no actual basis for that mentality but the masses often assume what they want to see rather than what is really there. I think the Republicans will have to become much more Pro-Black and display a lot more Black faces before people catch on that they don't care about the White majority either.
2005-07-22 12:35 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Strasser]Agreed. A complete, utter joke.
Lots of crackers are sick of what they see around them, but who can they turn to? "The Movement"? Not ****ing likely. "The Movement" has got lots of internal [size=-1]restructuring to do before it becomes anything resembling a practical, viable political alternative to the masses. [/size][/QUOTE]The movement is always brought down by the massive display of immaturity among the leaders. The leader finally gets to feel the popularity that he never had in High School and this becomes his sole motivation and causes him to fight with other leaders over the "prize" of the same crowd of fans. This also explains why people like Don Black and Alex Linder automatically feel threatened by each other for no other reason than "you will steal my fans"..."what if they like you more than me?"
2005-07-22 12:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]I tell you, if we could offer a viable, honest and accountable alternative to the old "movement," patriotic Americans would flock to it in droves. It must focus on American values instead of trying to superimpose foreign ideologies on us; speak to people in practical terms about issues that can be solved; establish organizational structures immune from personal greed and power struggles; and, most importantly, disassociate itself from all criminal/unsavory elements in our society. Also, we must not be so arrogant as to think of ourselves as "awakened" and everyone else as "sheeple" and set up self-imposed barriers between us and mainstream conservatives. There are many like Pat Buchanan or Tom Tancredo who would never embrace a pro-white platform, but, who are nonetheless, valuable allies in our fight to close the borders and preserve American culture.[/QUOTE] Many people could claim that "Democracy" was a foreign ideology imposed on us by the British parliamentary system developed in medieval times. Republican free enterprise ideals were also developed in Britain while the Democrats and their desire for "Socialism" is definitely 19th Century European. I don't see how any of those movements are more "American" than Nazism. Nazi ideology was open to all Nordic peoples which is why we had our very own Nazi movement right here in America under William Dudley Pelley and the Silvershirts.
[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dudley_Pelley"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Dudley_Pelley[/url]
Basically the masses have a hangup on this desire for everything to be "American" which is essentially a term without meaning because America was developed as an outpost of European ideas. There is no such thing as "foreign" ideologies, how could there be? Our missionaries are currently converting thousands of South Koreans to Christianity! What is native about Christianity if they are all over the planet?
All ideas are Internationalist in origin.
2005-07-22 12:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Rationally between the two extremes, Linder nothing but "name the jew" and mainstream GOP "nothing but love the jew". That's us.
Like Buchanism and paleoconservatism in general have always attempted to offer. However our numbers are small enough we generally have to focus on a few core principles.[/QUOTE] Why are the numbers small? I'm a little shocked at how the media calls something "Conservative" and the masses believe it. The millions of people watching the NeoCon Fox News Channel honestly think they are being good old American patriots! People seem to care more about what their group is called rather than the ideas inside of it.
2005-07-22 13:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr] - "If they are into the "philosophy" of whatever trendy TV guru is making the rounds, introduce them to Nietzsche and Schopenhauer."
Why would either of these men really inspire defenders of Western civilization?
2005-07-22 13:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Well, as I have said before, the White Nationalist movement is currently rather small because White people, as a group, are too "comfortable." As long as they have their TV shows and their movies and their nice houses in the suburbs, they don't really care about Jews or Blacks. [At least, they don't care until they read good information about Jews or Blacks].
However, their attitudes will change when Congress is full of minority congressmen, and they can't move into any neighborhood without living next door to negroes or other minorities.
In other words, White Nationalism is more or less in its infancy stage.
--------[/QUOTE]The best thing for White Nationalism would be if the Republican Party became much more openly Pro-Black and put on a Black face for the viewing pleasure of the White masses. Perhaps when the Republicans are finally running a Black male presidential candidate and a Black female vice president I won't have to encounter the dozens of idiot Whites I've met in the last few years who still imagine that it is only the Democrats who cater to minorities. Apparently Bush's advancement of Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice just wasn't enough to convince folks.
2005-07-22 17:48 | User Profile
[COLOR=Indigo][FONT=Arial][I][B] - "Get your facts correct: Christianity is not optimistic, Judaism is."[/B][/I][/FONT][/COLOR]
Christianity is boundlessly optimistic compared to religions such as Hinduism or Buddhism which Schopenhauer admired:
[FONT=Garamond][COLOR=Purple][FONT=Garamond]"The fact that the Buddha left unanswered the questions of the existence of the 'I' and the nature of Nirvana naturally led to different interpretations of these problems within Buddhism. The two main Buddhist sects--Hīnayāna and Mahayana Buddhism--give opposite answers to the question of Nirvana. In Hīnayāna Buddhism, Nirvana is considered to be the cessation of the activity of consciousness. A contemporary Indian author characterizes the Hīnayāna teaching as follows: "In the Hīnayāna, Nirvana became interpreted negatively as the extinction of all being.. ..[B]This view is an expression of weariness and disgust with the endless strife of becoming, and of the relief found in mere ceasing of effort. It is not a healthy-minded doctrine. A sort of world hatred is its inspiring motive[/B]." (159: pp. 590, 589) In Mahāyāna Buddhism, Nirvana is understood as a merging with the infinite, with the Great Soul of the universe, but it is not identified with the annihilation of existence.
However, it was to the Mahāyāna trend that Nāgārjuna belonged (he lived at a time around the beginning of the Christian era). [B]His followers, the Mādhyamikas, are sometimes called nihilists. [/B]
Nāgārjuna proceeds on the assumption that that which is not understandable is not real. He then proves that the following are neither understandable nor explicable: motion and rest, time, causality, the notion of the part and the whole, the soul, the "I," Buddha, God and the universe. "[B]There is no God apart from the universe, and there is no universe apart from God, and they both are equally appearances." (159: p. 655) "There is no death, no birth, no distinction, no persistence, no oneness, no manyness, no coming in, no going forth." [/B] (159: p. 655) "All things have the character of emptiness, they have no beginning, no end, they are faultless and not faultless, they are not imperfect and not perfect, therefore, O Sariputta, here in this emptiness there is no form, no perception, no name, no concept, no knowledge." (159: p. 656) "[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT]
[url]http://robertlstephens.com/essays/essay_frame.php?essayroot=shafarevich/&essayfile=001SocialistPhenomenon.html#pagestart_286[/url]
This kind of worldview leads to a permanent stagnation.
[B][I][FONT=Arial][COLOR=Indigo] - "Christianity says that the world is sin and must be overcome."[/COLOR][/FONT][/I][/B]
Correction: Christianity says that [B]man[/B] is born in original sin and that the primary source of evil that a Christian must combat can be found from himself. Jesus taught that evil enters from man to the world, not the other way around:
[COLOR=DarkRed][B][U]Matthew 15:16[/U] And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
15:17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. [/B] [/COLOR]
This article might also interest you, it deals with this theme:
[SIZE=5]"Rushdoony, Neoplatonism, and a Biblical View of Sex"[/SIZE]
...
[COLOR=DarkGreen][FONT=Georgia][B]Neoplatonism sets up a false antithesis between body and soul.[/B] It forces one to make a choice (which one do you say ââ¬Ësickââ¬â¢emââ¬â¢ to?), when the biblical picture of the relationship of the material to the immaterial part of man is quite different. The apostle Paul says, for example, ââ¬ÅHusbands, love your wives as your own body, for your wife is a member of your body. [B]Now no man ever hated his own body, but he nourishes it and takes care of it[/B]ââ¬Â (Eph 5:28-29).
...
ââ¬Å[B]For Scripture, however, there is no such dialectical tension. The warfare is not between matter and spirit, nature and grace, or nature and freedom, but between sinful man and God[/B]. Man by his sin has declared war on God, and as a result is in a state of tension and warfare because of sin, not because of a dual nature. Manââ¬â¢s problem is moral and ethical, not metaphysical. Neoplatonism not only misrepresents the problem man faces, but, by making it metaphysical, makes it necessary to truncate or castrate man of a basic aspect of his being before he can be delivered.ââ¬Â (p. 12)[/FONT] [/COLOR]
[url]http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1373[/url]
Petr
2005-07-22 21:48 | User Profile
Christianity is boundlessly optimistic compared to religions such as Hinduism or Buddhism which Schopenhauer admired: Sometimes it annoys me though when preechers make statements like "we're all sinners" and stuff like that. It just annoys me.
2005-07-22 23:19 | User Profile
[COLOR=Indigo][FONT=Arial][B][I] - "Sometimes it annoys me though when preechers make statements like "we're all sinners" and stuff like that. It just annoys me."[/I][/B][/FONT][/COLOR]
I think that this statement should not offend us any more than the statement: "we're all mortals." In the Christian theology, sin and death are intimately connected anyways. "The wages of sin is death."
Petr
2005-07-23 22:08 | User Profile
Brian, that was an excelland post. I agree with about everything you have to say here.
I think there are two types of White Nationalists 1: the serious type 2: the reject from society who thinks this is the place for rejects to go
I think we need more of type one and less of type two.
2005-07-23 22:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=kane123123]Sometimes it annoys me though when preechers make statements like "we're all sinners" and stuff like that. It just annoys me.[/QUOTE] But that is the whole ideological basis of Christianity. You can't remove the story of Adam & Eve and their original sin in the Garden of Eden from the religion and still call it Christianity.
2005-07-24 01:29 | User Profile
Well I'm not talking about being born with original sin, that's different. Orginal sin doesn't mean you sinned, it means you need baptism. But how would they know if you are a frequent sinner or if you are a good person?
So I think they could support the idea of original sin, which isn't our fault but Adam and Eve's fault, without assuming that they know how much each individual has sinned out of their own free will because they don't know this.
2005-07-24 04:41 | User Profile
Most Whites will agree with racism and are racist but all behind the door. That will not change they only openly agree with the popular view of the time because it is the least likey to get them in any conflict, because they spend there lifes to avoid serious conflict with anything. And are forever luke warm remeber what the bible says about that.
Voting doing anything is long gone, and poltical whores many change hands but the real rulers are still there. To be honest nothing real will change till there is a total collapse of the current system and society. Caring about joe six pack and sally soccer mom is a waste to get them you have to water the message down and then become too lame. Ten thousands sally soccer moms do not make one effective racist. The masses have to feel, they do not think they are told what to think by the system, the same system that hates the White Race.
The one percent are the ones who are needed they are the ones who make real change. As for the masses when sally soccer moms kids are getting attacked by groids and joe's job just went to India or to a mexican then they will start to care.
You do not need big numbers just the one percent of quality, 5000 bolsheviks took Russia, and Mao started out with all the odds aganist him and with tiny but effective numbers.
2005-07-24 05:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=G.Larson]Most Whites will agree with racism and are racist but all behind the door. That will not change they only openly agree with the popular view of the time because it is the least likey to get them in any conflict, because they spend there lifes to avoid serious conflict with anything. And are forever luke warm remeber what the bible says about that.
Voting doing anything is long gone, and poltical whores many change hands but the real rulers are still there. To be honest nothing real will change till there is a total collapse of the current system and society. Caring about joe six pack and sally soccer mom is a waste to get them you have to water the message down and then become too lame. Ten thousands sally soccer moms do not make one effective racist. The masses have to feel, they do not think they are told what to think by the system, the same system that hates the White Race.
The one percent are the ones who are needed they are the ones who make real change. As for the masses when sally soccer moms kids are getting attacked by groids and joe's job just went to India or to a mexican then they will start to care.
You do not need big numbers just the one percent of quality, 5000 bolsheviks took Russia, and Mao started out with all the odds aganist him and with tiny but effective numbers.[/QUOTE]I agree, the typical person is so uncomfortable with independent analysis that if they actually saw Israeli agents waving Israeli flags while blowing up the Golden Gate Bridge, they would come home and see it on TV declared as "Arabs did it" and they begin immediately doubting their very own personal experience. Mass Media has been empowered as a God-like/all knowing entity and people have placed so much trust in this propaganda machine that they would literally suffer a nervous breakdown if they had to question everything they had ever been told. :thumbsup:
2005-07-24 06:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE=OttoR]I agree, the typical person is so uncomfortable with independent analysis that if they actually saw Israeli agents waving Israeli flags while blowing up the Golden Gate Bridge, they would come home and see it on TV declared as "Arabs did it" and they begin immediately doubting their very own personal experience. Mass Media has been empowered as a God-like/all knowing entity and people have placed so much trust in this propaganda machine that they would literally suffer a nervous breakdown if they had to question everything they had ever been told. :thumbsup:[/QUOTE]Well you're generally true about that. But this has been true throughout history. The "average person" you are referring to belongs to that class of people Abe Lincoln referred to about whom "you can fool some of the people all the time". And even smart people can be fooled sometimes as Lincoln said. But I would say this second category the more educated and insightful and aware, (not cetainly that education and awareness/insightfulness of course are synonomous) at least determines the path society takes. That's why political scientists like Pareto, who influenced Buirnham and Francis, always viewed political history mainly as determined by the course of the elites. The rest of the people tend to follow these elites, of which the media, as part of the communicating sector, (along with say education) develop the attitudes and positions people, if not completely following, at least are acknowledged generally to be acceptable, mainstream, and "safe".
Now I think Media itself can be oversimplified. Let's face it, there is certainly a lot more diversity in the media than there used to be, at least in the number of outlets. Minority view points like our certainly have more chance to reach the mainstream, and can reach more people outside of the mainstream, than in the past. So I'm not sure this shibboleth really per se holds water as an excuse for WN's. The simple fact is, if people believe mass media over people like Linder, National Vanguard, and VNN, its because Linder and VNN in some ways are still much lower quality outlets, not just in style but in the underlying content.
2005-07-24 12:58 | User Profile
One of the things that turned me off to WNs is this lemming attitude. I've never seen a successful political strategy in which less than 1/10 of 1% of the population gathers online and says how smart they are and how stupid everyone else is. Then they trade rep, slap themselves on the backs and feel proud of their own isolationism. Dave Pringle told us when I followed him out of the NA that the "movement" is riddled with groupthink and I have to agree. We would sit there and think how much better the NA was than other pro-white organizations because we measured our membership in the thousands instead of the hundreds or tens. The reality is, as stated above, that most Americans have a sense of what's going on and see that the reprisals for speaking their minds far outweigh the benefit of joining dysfunctional, fly by night organizations. When we can offer them an honest and effective alternative, they will come. "[font=Verdana, Helvetica][size=2]Every plowman knows a good government from a bad one, from the effects of it; he knows whether the fruits of his labor be his own, and whether he enjoy them in peace and security." [/size][/font] Frankly, most of the WNs I've met leave much to be desired in the brains and personality areas. I have met so many dispicable people who call themselves WNs and even hold membership in major organizations like the NA/NV. WNism, like any other social structure, has its share of thinkers, implementors, followers, good and bad; when we would do well to lose this holier-than-though arrogance when dealing with our own people. It reminds me of the 18 year old unemployed, derelict Creator I used to know who would pass out flyers to middle-aged, college-educated, successful people and, if confronted, tell them how he was going to save the world if only they would follow him. WNism needs a major reality check and this article was a good start. [font=Verdana, Helvetica][size=2] [/size][/font]
2005-07-24 12:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust] Let's face it, there is certainly a lot more diversity in the media than there used to be, at least in the number of outlets.[/QUOTE]This is true if you count the internet as media, but if you don't you'll find that the Jews have been quietly and patiently buying up many of the small local papers and advertisers. I suppose they are anticipating internet censorship.
The number of Whites who actually read internet news sites is not that great percentage-wise, after all who wants the get behind a computer and read after a hard day's work when they can sit behind a TV and have their thinking done for them by talking heads.
When internet information challenges their long held beliefs/values it's easy for them to reject it as "fringe-element". The solution for us is to use repetition on them at a subtle level....that will get them used to and more receptive to the truth....and that not everyone believes the Jewsmedia.
I see the internet as temporary. It is our greatest opportunity to wake up the TV addled masses. Don't let this opportunity slip through your hands. Sell people on the internet, people you know who don't have access...show them the benefits, get them on line. Email them and get them in the habit of using it.
2005-07-24 15:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=OttoR]Get your facts correct: Christianity is not optimistic, Judaism is. Christianity says that the world is sin and must be overcome. What else do you think that Jesus meant by "my kingdom is not of this world"???????[/QUOTE]
We also must distinguish between what the early Christians wrote, and later interpretations. Early Christians believe they would be taken into the New Kingdom along with Jesus. When Jesus died, this caused reevaluation of their beliefs. When the first generation Christians died without entering the Kingdom this caused great consternation among believers. Maybe Jesus was an alien. The above quote of Jesus would no eliminate the possibility. What did Jesus mean when he said "kingdom" and "world."
2005-07-24 18:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE]You do not need big numbers just the one percent of quality, 5000 bolsheviks took Russia, and Mao started out with all the odds aganist him and with tiny but effective numbers.[/QUOTE] I think we do need Big Numbers. The current system will remain too powerful to be challenged from without. Sort of like pre-Christian Rome. I can't see success sprouting from a violent revolt by a revolutionary gang. It'll have to come from a collective acceptance from the White masses that racial separatism is salvation. There has to be a huge shift in White America's moral and ethical trajectory. This will happen, I have to believe, when Sally and Joe are physically confronted by the reality of what they've allowed to take root and fester. Personal Experience can be a wonderful solvent to even the most convincing propaganda. Oh, they'll always be Hold Outs. The ones who are determined to find comfort in Hell.
But, who can all those shivering crackers who do care turn to? [QUOTE]When we can offer them an honest and effective alternative, they will come[/QUOTE] Not overnight, though. Far from it. Even with image overhauling and internal restructuring, it'll still be years for the White masses to wake-up, so to speak. As long as Whitey is fat, wealthy, and culturally dominant, he'll keep on playing his fiddle whilst Rome smoulders. The flames will have to start licking his ass before we see that mad rush to the Fire Exit.
2005-07-24 19:06 | User Profile
As Bob Whitaker says, Christianity can lead to self-hate if you don't watch it, but Judaism leads to self-pity.
2005-07-24 19:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]One of the things that turned me off to WNs is this lemming attitude. I've never seen a successful political strategy in which less than 1/10 of 1% of the population gathers online and says how smart they are and how stupid everyone else is. Then they trade rep, slap themselves on the backs and feel proud of their own isolationism. Dave Pringle told us when I followed him out of the NA that the "movement" is riddled with groupthink and I have to agree. We would sit there and think how much better the NA was than other pro-white organizations because we measured our membership in the thousands instead of the hundreds or tens. The reality is, as stated above, that most Americans have a sense of what's going on and see that the reprisals for speaking their minds far outweigh the benefit of joining dysfunctional, fly by night organizations. When we can offer them an honest and effective alternative, they will come. "[font=Verdana, Helvetica][size=2]Every plowman knows a good government from a bad one, from the effects of it; he knows whether the fruits of his labor be his own, and whether he enjoy them in peace and security." [/size][/font] Frankly, most of the WNs I've met leave much to be desired in the brains and personality areas. I have met so many dispicable people who call themselves WNs and even hold membership in major organizations like the NA/NV. WNism, like any other social structure, has its share of thinkers, implementors, followers, good and bad; when we would do well to lose this holier-than-though arrogance when dealing with our own people. It reminds me of the 18 year old unemployed, derelict Creator I used to know who would pass out flyers to middle-aged, college-educated, successful people and, if confronted, tell them how he was going to save the world if only they would follow him. WNism needs a major reality check and this article was a good start. [font=Verdana, Helvetica][size=2] [/size][/font][/QUOTE] Your hostility directed at WNs reveals a lot about what you don't understand when it comes to humans and what makes them mentally independent or conformist. The precise reason that you don't like the freaks and weirdos is the only reason they are there. Good luck trying to attract Mr. middle-aged, college-educated, successful person..blah, blah, blah...those people are so concerned with personal image and fitting in that their personal lives would have to take a heavy hit before they abandoned their elite role models like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.
I'm back in college right now for another degree and let me tell you that finding a PaleoCon would be virtually impossible much less a WN. Apparently you fail to understand that the further people rise up the social ladder the more they become enslaved to what is considered **"respectable"** and **"broad-minded"**. In fact, the "successful" people appear more tied down to these pseudo-intellectual buzzwords than anyone else. This is why there are so few of them in the movement!
Also, the higher you rise up brings you into more contact with the elite Jewish intellectual professors, and every major college has them: the Dershowitzes/Horowitzes. I have noticed that especially small town people who want to distance themselves from their rural past love to embrace these New York intellectual ideologies as a way of showing the "little people" back home that **"I've moved beyond your simplistic hick world!"** This behavior is especially prevalent in White women. You can see it written all over their faces, "Oh it's just a color, melanin in the skin!"
The point I'm getting at is that most of the so called intelligent people are really just conformists who adopt specific ideological views as a way of impressing other people. The freaks enter WN because they don't have any "respectability" tying them down to the dominant multiracial system.
Everyone complains about the low level of WNs but no one seems to understand that the system itself is designed to provide us with mostly these types specifically because the more "classy" people are too concerned with their own personal image and what everyone else thinks of them, and thus would never adopt a viewpoint which ran counter to the socially acceptable NORM.
I don't blame those low level WNs no matter how uneducated or moronic they are, I blame the White "elite" who care more about impressing people with how "smart" they are instead of saving their race.
The next time you see some video of a WN rally ask yourself where the Upper Class people are? The answer says a lot about our shallow society....
2005-07-24 22:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE=OttoR]Your hostility directed at WNs reveals a lot about what you don't understand when it comes to humans and what makes them mentally independent or conformist. The precise reason that you don't like the freaks and weirdos is the only reason they are there. Good luck trying to attract Mr. middle-aged, college-educated, successful person..blah, blah, blah...those people are so concerned with personal image and fitting in that their personal lives would have to take a heavy hit before they abandoned their elite role models like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.
I'm back in college right now for another degree and let me tell you that finding a PaleoCon would be virtually impossible much less a WN. Apparently you fail to understand that the further people rise up the social ladder the more they become enslaved to what is considered "respectable" and "broad-minded". In fact, the "successful" people appear more tied down to these pseudo-intellectual buzzwords than anyone else. This is why there are so few of them in the movement!
Also, the higher you rise up brings you into more contact with the elite Jewish intellectual professors, and every major college has them: the Dershowitzes/Horowitzes. I have noticed that especially small town people who want to distance themselves from their rural past love to embrace these New York intellectual ideologies as a way of showing the "little people" back home that "I've moved beyond your simplistic hick world!" This behavior is especially prevalent in White women. You can see it written all over their faces, "Oh it's just a color, melanin in the skin!"
The point I'm getting at is that most of the so called intelligent people are really just conformists who adopt specific ideological views as a way of impressing other people. The freaks enter WN because they don't have any "respectability" tying them down to the dominant multiracial system.
Everyone complains about the low level of WNs but no one seems to understand that the system itself is designed to provide us with mostly these types specifically because the more "classy" people are too concerned with their own personal image and what everyone else thinks of them, and thus would never adopt a viewpoint which ran counter to the socially acceptable NORM.
I don't blame those low level WNs no matter how uneducated or moronic they are, I blame the White "elite" who care more about impressing people with how "smart" they are instead of saving their race.
The next time you see some video of a WN rally ask yourself where the Upper Class people are? The answer says a lot about our shallow society....[/QUOTE] Yes and the CofCC has well over 30,000 members and the NSM has....?
2005-07-25 00:32 | User Profile
While I am not supremely educated I am working on it. One thing bothers me about your earlier post.
CoCC has been around for some time. What I first thought when going through their site and looking at their beliefs and goals it occurred to me that they too have the groupthink attitude. Otherwise how can you explain the time that they have been around vs the progress that has been made. They do not have name recognition. If they had they would be working or lending information to organizations that are now being formed. ex: Nationalist Policy Institute Organization. The isolationism that groups fall into does not foster success.
2005-07-25 01:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=siren]While I am not supremely educated I am working on it. One thing bothers me about your earlier post.
CoCC has been around for some time. What I first thought when going through their site and looking at their beliefs and goals it occurred to me that they too have the groupthink attitude. Otherwise how can you explain the time that they have been around vs the progress that has been made. They do not have name recognition. If they had they would be working or lending information to organizations that are now being formed. ex: Nationalist Policy Institute Organization. The isolationism that groups fall into does not foster success.[/QUOTE] No the CofCC has a long, long way to go; but clearly, their effective use of a mainstream nationalist message has put them at the forefront of patriotic organizations in under two decades. I'm still waiting for an American version of the BNP. We're not going to scare people into believing in us; we need to offer real hope and solutions. The best advice I can offer is to listen to Nick Griffin's speech from the 2005 EURO conference on Duke.org.
2005-07-25 01:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Brian Hassett: I'm still waiting for an American version of the BNP.[/QUOTE]
This is indicitive of part of our problem. "You are still waiting" You are an intelligent man, educated yet waiting. Well, we are in need of men like you to step forward. Without initiative or out of fear of reprisal, those who would condemn others of trying, is because the final commitment is where men must lead in the face of criticism and face ridicule.
2005-07-25 01:27 | User Profile
There are some third parties but they aren't all nation-wide. Some Buchananite third parties resemble this kind of.
2005-07-25 15:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=OttoR]This also explains why people like Don Black and Alex Linder automatically feel threatened by each other for no other reason than "you will steal my fans"..."what if they like you more than me?"[/QUOTE]
Bad comparison.
Don Black is a behind-the-scenes coalition builder.
Linder is just a nut-case or an AP.
2005-07-25 15:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Bad comparison.
Don Black is a behind-the-scenes coalition builder.
Linder is just a nut-case or an AP.[/QUOTE] I agree. As a long time SFer, I didn't always see eye to eye with Don Black, but I've had some pleasant pms with him too. Don is a fine gentlemen who does the best he can to manange a board that has, quite frankly, grown well beyond his control. With hundreds of active posters and 40k+ registered members including people like Jamie Kelso on one side and others who want to scream six million more on the other. Even the moderating staff is so divided against itself that on one hand you have mods who will drive people off the board who refuse to "name the Jew" on every post and on the other, there is a mod who openly supports the biological absorption of Judaism into our population. The old and new "movements" are completely incompatable with each other and this is what happens when people think they can bring them together. TD is right, however, in that Don Black is one of the few men in the cause who doesn't have an ego and prefers to work behind the scenes rather than playing with fire like Mr. Linder does. Bad comparison.
2005-07-25 15:45 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett]TD is right, however, in that Don Black is one of the few men in the cause who doesn't have an ego and prefers to work behind the scenes rather than playing with fire like Mr. Linder does.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Brian.
One of the few reasons I still have left in running this thing is to do what I can to steer as many newcomers towards the former and everything I can to steer everyone away from and make anathema the latter.
2005-07-25 15:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Thanks, Brian.
One of the few reasons I still have left in running this thing is to do what I can to steer as many newcomers towards the former and everything I can to steer everyone away from and make anathema the latter.[/QUOTE] So I guess you're not joining the "Hate Bus" in the style of GLR which is being advocated on Stormfront right now? Seriously, though, the reason I don't post there anymore was that I realized for all the sensible posts by people like myself, there are a even more by these yahoos. I'm sure ten years from now, if I run for higher office, I'll have people saying I belonged to a "hate site" because a few posts advocating genocide slipped through the consors.
2005-07-25 17:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Brian Hassett] TD is right, however, in that Don Black is one of the few men in the cause who doesn't have an ego and prefers to work behind the scenes rather than playing with fire like Mr. Linder does. [/QUOTE]Actually this is a good argument against rallying behind ambitious "leaders" in general. The few who do not seek social position are often the most qualified.
2005-07-26 01:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=travis]Actually this is a good argument against rallying behind ambitious "leaders" in general. The few who do not seek social position are often the most qualified.[/QUOTE] Indeed, after well over a decade in the "movement" the one piece of advice I have for anyone who will listen is to avoid those who equate themselves with the cause at all costs. We need more men like Don Black, Jared Talyor, Gordon Baum and Kevin Strom and less like Hal Turner, Bill White, Alex Linder, Matt Hale, etc. Egos and pettyness have always been the downfall of white men.
2005-07-26 01:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Egos and pettyness have always been the downfall of white men.[/QUOTE] The whole Personality Cult the movement always seems to push towards. That needs to end.