← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Pennsylvania_Dutch
Thread ID: 18028 | Posts: 14 | Started: 2005-04-30
2005-04-30 01:01 | User Profile
I read today that a UMC clergy court was over ruled by a regional appeals committee, and a lesbian Methodist minister was reinstated to the ministry.
The head of the regional apeals committee was an African (?) Methodist from Harvard...and the lesbian minister is from the Philadelphia area.
Should I be outraged? :shocking:
2005-04-30 09:16 | User Profile
Only if they stay chaste and celibate.
2005-04-30 09:29 | User Profile
[left][font=Arial][size=4][color=#800000]Leviticus 18.22[/color][/size][/font]
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[left][font=Arial]Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind: because it is an abomination.[/font]
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**[left][font=Arial][size=4]Leviticus 20.13[/size][/font][/left] **
[left][font=Arial]If any one lie with a man as with a woman, both have committed an abomination: [size=5]let them be put to death. Their blood be upon them.**[/size] [/font][/left]
[left][font=Arial][size=4][color=#800000]Romans 1.26-27, 32[/color][/size][/font][/left]
[left][font=Arial]For this cause, God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [/font][/left]
[left][font=Arial]And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts, one towards another: men with men, working that which is filthy and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. . . .[/font][/left]
[left][font=Arial]Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are [size=5]worthy of death[/size]: and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them. [/font][/left]
[left][font=Arial][size=4][color=#800000]1 Corinthians 6.9-10[/color][/size][/font][/left]
[left][font=Arial]Know you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: Neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers: [/font][/left]
[left][font=Arial]Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.[/font][/left]
[left][font=Arial][size=4][color=#800000]St. Jude 1.7[/color][/size][/font][/left]
[left][font=Arial]As Sodom and Gomorrha and the neighbouring cities, in like manner, having given themselves to fornication and going after other flesh, were made an example, suffering the punishment of eternal fire.[/font][/left]
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2005-04-30 13:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=friedrich braun]Only if they stay chaste and celibate.[/QUOTE]
Not good enough. They must also denounce the homosexual lifestyle a sin. I'm not asking for any priest or minister to be without sin, but I expect them to try to avoid sin and admit to what is sin.
Actually, some sins are too great to be ignored. You wouldn't put a convicted child molester, no matter how repentant, in charge of children. Likewise, even celibate homosexuals who are repentant should not be priests or ministers.
2005-04-30 14:19 | User Profile
These rump rangers & carpet munchers need a good dose of Pastor Fred Phelps:
[url]http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/index.html[/url]
2005-04-30 14:31 | User Profile
Denying that a sin is a sin may be the greatest sin of all. Its a form of open defiance against God. Any preacher who says that homosexual activity is not a sin really can't be a Christian in any real sense of the term. Pastors who struggle against homosexual temptation have my sympathy, but if they had any integrity they would resign from the ministry and continue their personal battle against temptation as laymen. As for the female UCC minister mentioned in the thread, she should not be in the Holy Ministry at all because the bible specifically prohibits female clergy.
These Homos and broads have one thing in common. They see the Holy Ministry as a means of personal power, of asserting their own agendas and personhood. They want to the world to "affirm" them. The male homos, just love prancing around in fancy vestments (that's how shallow they are.)
The Holy Ministry is about service and humility. Authority in the Christian church is about servanthood and putting your own personal agendas in your back pocket. If Jesus, who washed the disciples feet and died a horrible and humiliating death for us didn't put on airs, why should clergy?
I hear the big liberal Lutheran denomination (the ELCA) for the first time graduated more female clergy than males from its seminaries last year. A bunch of egotistic, self-absorbed, feminist bitches leading their congregations down the rosy path to hell. The mind reels!
2005-04-30 14:37 | User Profile
CornCod, well said.
2005-04-30 14:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Happy Hacker]Not good enough. They must also denounce the homosexual lifestyle a sin. I'm not asking for any priest or minister to be without sin, but I expect them to try to avoid sin and admit to what is sin.
Actually, some sins are too great to be ignored. You wouldn't put a convicted child molester, no matter how repentant, in charge of children. Likewise, even celibate homosexuals who are repentant should not be priests or ministers.[/QUOTE]
I guess I'd ask the question, would anyone care if their new minister was living with his mistress, estranged from his wife?
If so, then you care about morality. If not, by all means: hire the lezbo
2005-04-30 15:41 | User Profile
Dear Jay,
My own particular church body, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, even though it is becoming more liberal by the minute, would never permit a man who was living with a woman in sin to be called to be a pastor. Also, we are not permitted to ordain a man who was unscripturally divorced to be a minister. I think he would have had to be the innocent party to a divorce, in other words his wife would either have to have deserted him or have committed adultery against him. If a serving pastor is divorced and he is the innocent party he has to resign his current call and move to another part of the country (another district) in order to be called by a congregation. If he is the guilty party in a divorce he is defrocked.
In short:
Unscriptually divorced men do not belong in the Holy Ministry. Men living in sin do not belong in the Holy Ministry. Homos do not belong in the Holy Ministry. "Wimmin" do not belong in the Holy Ministry.
2005-04-30 17:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CornCod]Dear Jay,
My own particular church body, the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, even though it is becoming more liberal by the minute, would never permit a man who was living with a woman in sin to be called to be a pastor. Also, we are not permitted to ordain a man who was unscripturally divorced to be a minister. I think he would have had to be the innocent party to a divorce, in other words his wife would either have to have deserted him or have committed adultery against him. If a serving pastor is divorced and he is the innocent party he has to resign his current call and move to another part of the country (another district) in order to be called by a congregation. If he is the guilty party in a divorce he is defrocked.
In short:
Unscriptually divorced men do not belong in the Holy Ministry. Men living in sin do not belong in the Holy Ministry. Homos do not belong in the Holy Ministry. "Wimmin" do not belong in the Holy Ministry.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm....I'm LCMS as well. I think that sounds very reasonable. I wonder if marital unhappiness is ever accepted. I know people that trudge on, hopeless, in marriages instead of divorcing.
I'm mixed on whether they should divorce or continue the good fight.
2005-05-01 00:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CornCod] Unscriptually divorced men do not belong in the Holy Ministry. Men living in sin do not belong in the Holy Ministry. Homos do not belong in the Holy Ministry. "Wimmin" do not belong in the Holy Ministry.[/QUOTE]
I would go further. A clergyman should be divorced.
In Orthodoxy, a man must marry before becoming ordained and must leave the priesthood if he divorces. Same goes if a single priest wants to marry. I don't think there's any loopholes. Needless to say, living in sin with a woman or being a homo are beyond the even realm of consideration.
2005-05-01 00:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=wild_bill]I would go further. A clergyman should be divorced. [/QUOTE]
Correction. I meant to say "should NOT be divorced."
2005-05-01 00:56 | User Profile
Dear Jay,
In this unhappy age Conservative Christians (especially Lutherans) have to be very careful who they marry. Our only divorce option is if our mates abandon us or commit adultery. The whole "mental torture" thing can't apply.
2005-05-02 16:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=friedrich braun]Only if they stay chaste and celibate.[/QUOTE] That seems to be the rule, or more correctly, "was" the rule of the United Methodist Church up until this recent decision.
Someone wrote that the "Stroud" ruling, throws 40,000 Methodist clergy into confusion.