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Pringle speaks out against the National Alliance

Thread ID: 17737 | Posts: 17 | Started: 2005-04-12

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Gabrielle [OP]

2005-04-12 12:17 | User Profile

David M. Pringle, former NA membership coordinator, speaks out against the National Alliance revealing their crooked ways...

History Will Perform The Autopsy. It is Time to Move On

View with pictures at: [url]http://www.whitewire.net/index.php?p=53[/url]

Filed under: Sgian Dubh Movement Watch— site admin @ 2:24 am By David M. Pringle

The recently published article by Hal Turner is a good one. (Read Hal’s article: [url]http://www.halturnershow.com/TimeToLeave.html[/url]) Hal, like many of us, is going through the initial phase of Post Alliance Stress Disorder (PASD.) “JP Slovjanski,“ a poster on VNN Forum, recently summed it up quite well. (Click here to read his post: [url]http://www.vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=186669&postcount=1[/url]) As a person recovering from PASD, I recognize the symptoms. JP’s VNN piece has many of them pegged.

The most important aspect of PASD, the final phase, is when the sufferer finally realizes the inevitable; the NA has been corrupted beyond repair. As a result, he or she attempts to save it. Unfortunately, the only remedy, the only salvation for our beloved Alliance, is to remove the cancer that is weakening it. And the truth is we may be too late.

This is a hard truth for most of us to accept. Long-time members have patiently waited in vain for the problem to “fix itself.” These life-long activists have seen mild organizational influenza before. The first regimen is to attempt to make the body of the organization extremely fit and healthy - to fight the disease from within. “Feed a cold, starve a fever,” as the old saying goes.

These honorable folk have offered services, money and advice to the new NA, only to come away with the shocking realization of having made a tragic misdiagnosis of the problem. This is not a mild cold. This is cancer. And feeding cancer only makes it stronger. These honorable, twenty-year career NA members have learned that supporting the emboldened tumor has simply caused it to attach itself to more living tissue within the organization.

Coming to this truth, the old-school activists began to resign in disgust. Honorable and candid to a fault, they often attempted to explain why they left. The cancer on the organization immediately locked onto these new “critics” and slandered and attacked the recently departed.

If nothing else, a malignant tumor is a survivor. It only disappears when the body that feeds it dies. It exploits the honorable intentions of the host and cleverly “self-identifies” as the organization itself. Anyone who questions its presence is deemed unfit to feed the cancer that has deceived the body of the organization into accepting its presence.

Those of us who leave and take a step back note the familiarity of this toxic disease that has infected our organization. The cancer that has besieged us is an amoral, manipulative social pathology that screams “victim” when exposed. Sound familiar? What has attached itself to the Alliance is similar to the cancer that has infected our society. And when honorable men and women have dared to recommend any type of organizational chemotherapy, the tumor cries “COINTELPRO.” And what is left of the weakened and confused host often believes it.

Anyone who questions the cancerous tumor is harshly attacked and accused of harming the host. The tumor even uses backchannel lies and propaganda to convince the still-healthy elements of the organization to assist in the attacks on those who question its presence.

As evil and insidious as these attacks have become lately, those of us in the final stages of PASD recognize them for what they are. The cancer knows that for a tumor to grow, the host must stay intact. The host must be convinced that anyone who leaves was “part of the problem.” The cancer must convince the rest of the host to “stay the course” and continue to feed the tumor.

Thus, the fight goes on. And our once-great organization continues to weaken and die. As every frustrated former member of the NA already knows, feeding and supporting the tumor only makes it grow faster. Feeding it only makes it more effective at gradually killing the host. Other remedies soon become equally ineffective. The “chemotherapy” of gentle, constructive criticism has not worked. The harsh regimens of Internet flame wars and mass resignations have not worked.

The cancer has now attached itself to the heart and brain of the host. It is growing and it is terminal. And a well-fed tumor never leaves on its’ own. Rats only abandon a sinking ship when the vessel is out of food and about to go under. And the only people who remain to bear witness to the rats leaving the sinking ship are those who wisely escaped to a lifeboat and are watching it and their life’s work tragically drown.

Everyone who examines the problems facing our beloved Alliance eventually reaches the same conclusion. Radical surgery is required to remove the malignant tumor from our organization. But it may be too late. To ask Erich Gliebe or his side-kick Shaun Walker to resign is futile.

Judgment has been passed by hundreds, actually thousands, of former NA members. Despite the deceptions of the cancer, the Alliance is now terminally weak and completely ineffective. Although the tumor has the body convinced that “everything is fine,” even a child can see that the frail, wheezing organism is nearing deaths’ door. Despite its’ claims of health, it is weakened and dying and has no chance of providing the services and structure it claims it can. What is left of the host is too weak and deceived to accept this truth.

History will perform the autopsy. This now-terminal cancer could have been prevented. In the NA’s handbook (the one document that many who continue to feed the tumor have never seen) one of the pictures is of a family leaving a burning city behind. The illustration depicts a young couple and their children heading to the hills, carrying survival supplies and the means to protect themselves. History will conclude that in the new NA, family was shown the door within days of the death of our founder.

Erich Gliebe bills his new NA as “family friendly,” yet Shaun Walker, who does the hiring at NAHQ, refuses to hire any more married couples and immediately rejects couples with children. The tumor has its own ideas of how to feed and maintain the host. Families are too stable, too close-knit, and too normal to reliably feed the deviant, malignant tumor attached to our organization.

Walker, who has been divorced twice and has an estranged teenage daughter, is afraid of hiring couples because if one leaves they both leave. Interesting logic. He’s assuming that everyone who comes to work at NAHQ will eventually become angry and leave. Under his tenure his assumption has been correct. Walker doesn’t like children, they “bother” him and cause workers to spend time with their families and he soon accuses these couples of “not working for the Cause.”

Gliebe and Walker prefer the single, “if it feels good do it” lifestyle. They like strip clubs and single’s bars filled with “hotties” looking for one night of fun. They both regularly cheat on whatever female they are currently hooked up with. This cad-like behavior is at the root of their morally bankrupt “leadership” of the National Alliance. These two cads are constantly talking of sex and looking for other men, young and old, who share their appetite for “hotties,” married and single.

History will reveal that Gliebe and Walker attached themselves like tumors on our women and children. Their amoral, deviant strain of racial cancer lived only to deceive, infect and grow more powerful. Their cancer has no morality, no heart of its own. No soul. Do you need further diagnosis? A second opinion, perhaps? Ask any female who has ever had intimate contact with either of these two gentlemen and she will describe them thusly.

Character counts and moral behavior counts. The majority of NA members, both male and female, are good, moral people. They shared Dr. Pierce’s disgust at Bill Clinton’s behavior. Sadly, in a world ruled by the lowest of the low, by the sociopathic opportunist, even the National Alliance has fallen victim to this Judaized behavior. The cancer that infects us is of the same origins as the malignancy that has gradually degraded the once-great civilizations from which we originate.

William Luther Pierce, the National Alliance’s founding Chairman, was influenced by Nietzsche, Wagner, Shaw, Devi, Schopenhauer and others. Erich Joseph Gliebe, the NA’s current Chairman, is influenced by Tony Soprano, OZ, Jim Rohm and assorted porn stars.

Look at Gliebe’s choice in girlfriends, a former Playboy model and stripper. Or the lonely, drunken and dysfunctional wife of a member. Or the countless mothers of other men’s young children. He promised to marry them all. And they were all deceived, debased and soon discarded.

This reprehensible conduct has left a deep, ugly scar on the soul of our organization.

Those of you still supporting Gliebe and Walker can “stay the course,” and “keep going forward,” until your back is against a wall. Your PASD comrades will understand. The fact is, unless removed, a malignant tumor only dies when the host is so weakened that it can no longer feed it. We will leave it to those of you still “feeding the tumor” to reach this conclusion on your own.

Gliebe and Walker aside: Now for the real problem.

This is the one that hit’s the PASD sufferer the hardest. The NA has had over 20,000 members filter through it over the past thirty years. That’s right, no joke, 20,000. But it gets worse. During that time the NA never had more than 2,500 active members at a time. Many will assume because I am a critic and thus, an “enemy” of the current NA regime, that I am making these numbers up. But there are over twenty former staffers and three other Membership Coordinators who can back me up on these numbers.

One thing I am not trying to do is depress, scare away or minimize NA members. I am not trying to dismiss the historical influence of the organization or the wasted potential. It’s a sad story and it’s really hard to tell. We all know the details of this cautionary tale. We do not need another support group for “cancer survivors.” The funeral has been delayed but the NA has been pronounced dead. And we are done commiserating.

The reason I am writing this is simple. We need to put something effective together. We need to build a robust, healthy organization that serves the North American branch of our Race, one that can network with other racially based groups throughout the world and move on.

Let’s move on. That is the cure for PASD.

The cure is to reach out to the 20,000 plus former NA members, most of whom left the NA after seventeen months of membership, and give them something they can get behind. A group with a real Board of Directors with a President of the Board, a Treasurer, a Secretary, and a Chairman. We need fiscal transparency. We need a business manager, a media director and a fully staffed member services department. We need activist training, leadership development, motivational speakers who travel the country. We need a real agenda and a well-defined program for building the REAL ability to communicate with OUR people. The NA is incapable of that and it will always be. Either remove the tumor or remove yourself from the room.

We also need to get away from the idea that one man has all the answers or that one grand leader of leaders is going to come down from the mountain and guide us to a swift, final victory. We need to get real and realize that our movement has many fine leaders, male and female. Most of the finest leadership material are local leaders who have immersed themselves in the struggle to free their people’s minds from the Judazied prisons they are currently held. These men and women stand behind their beliefs and are proud to be named. To quote a leader from the past “leadership in the struggle are the people who are doing it, making things happen. Smashing forms and familiarities that hold us back….”

We must also remember the advice and experience of men like Dr. William L. Pierce who, when faced with a situation much like the one facing the NA of today wrote:

“In organizing and controlling a White people’s revolution, led by National Socialists, the only criterion that must be applied to policy decisions is that of correctness. Policies which help advance the revolution are good policies, and those which do not are bad.

Anyone who insists that decisions must be arrived at by some special process is a fool. One particularly dangerous kind of foolishness in this regard many be called the “fuehrer-complex.” It is the belief that one man, by virtue of having somehow gotten into the position at the top of the revolutionary bureaucracy, is thereby specially qualified to make all decisions. To attempt to use Mein Kampf, which was written by an eminently sensible man, to justify such nonsense is a form of sacrilege.

Decisions arrived at by a board of directors, or by a revolutionary council, or by some other group of leaders are in no way inherently tainted by a sort of “original sin,” nor are they in conflict with the National Socialist principle of personality.

If, indeed, a revolutionary movement is so fortunate as to possess a single leader whose capabilities exceed those of his colleagues by such a margin that he alone can make better decisions, in most cases, than can a council of his colleagues, then that single leader should make the decisions. But if the movement is not so fortunate as to possess such an exceptional individual, it had damned well better find some other way of governing itself.

A man who has a record of inept and incorrect decisions can in no way justify himself by pointing to an organizational chart or by citing any kind of organizational principles. The internal organization of a revolutionary movement must always be a matter of expediency, not principle. What works must be used, and what has proven itself not to work must be cast aside.”

View with pictures at: [url]http://www.whitewire.net/index.php?p=53[/url]

Okiereddust

2005-04-12 19:15 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Gabrielle]We must also remember the advice and experience of men like Dr. William L. Pierce who, when faced with a situation much like the one facing the NA of today wrote:

“In organizing and controlling a White people’s revolution, led by National Socialists, the only criterion that must be applied to policy decisions is that of correctness. Policies which help advance the revolution are good policies, and those which do not are bad.

Anyone who insists that decisions must be arrived at by some special process is a fool. One particularly dangerous kind of foolishness in this regard many be called the “fuehrer-complex.” It is the belief that one man, by virtue of having somehow gotten into the position at the top of the revolutionary bureaucracy, is thereby specially qualified to make all decisions. To attempt to use Mein Kampf, which was written by an eminently sensible man, to justify such nonsense is a form of sacrilege.

Decisions arrived at by a board of directors, or by a revolutionary council, or by some other group of leaders are in no way inherently tainted by a sort of “original sin,” nor are they in conflict with the National Socialist principle of personality.[/QUOTE]Interesting artice overall. What is of particular note is this little section on the basis of the NA's view of their organization and NS. It is as noted in keeping with the historical post-WWII american conception of NS as a religion devoted to the "fuehrer-prinzip". It is also inherently unstable organizationally, and attracts inherently unstable people (or gov't agents).

It really is a blot on white activists everywhere, who I think must see it as one of their greatest enemies.

Kevin_O'Keeffe

2005-04-12 21:17 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Okiereddust]What is of particular note is this little section on the basis of the NA's view of their organization and NS. It is as noted in keeping with the historical post-WWII american conception of NS as a religion devoted to the "fuehrer-prinzip".

Actually, Dr. Pierce pointed out precisely why the Alliance is NOT "in keeping with the historical post-WWII american conception of NS as a religion devoted to the 'fuehrer-prinzip,'" in very strongly worded and eloquent terms. The Alliance did have a problem for about two years after Dr. Pierce's death, when Erich Gliebe was, due to somethink akin to organizatonal inertia, invested with the same quasi-dictatorial powers that Dr. Pierce had rightly earned on the basis of merit. Its unfortunate in took the Alliance two years until after Dr. Pierce's death to begin heeding his words, but Erich Giebe has since been reigned in by the Executive Committee, which was formed about six months ago, and which has made Erich Gliebe's post as "National Chairman" little more than ceremonial. I believe it is generally understood that making Gliebe the National Chairman back in 2002 was a mistake, over and above the other mistake of not immediately recognizing that the new National Chairman would almost by definition not be qualified to wield the same level of authority as Dr. Pierce. For whatever reason, a compromise where Gliebe still gets to be the ceremonial head of the Alliance, while Kevin Alfred Strom, and the other serious-minded men on the Executive Committee, are the ones truly running the show.

The Alliance is actually much more active and effective than I have ever seen since becoming aware of its existence in 1995 (and becoming a member in 1996, as I remain today), and it seems likely David Pringle knows of this happy condition, thus it further seems likely David Pringle is a damned liar. What portion of his story is a lie? Virtually all of it? Quite possibly. Who knows what lies a liar may be telling, and when he may divurge into the truth?

[QUOTE=Okiereddust]It is also inherently unstable organizationally

Really? How so?

[QUOTE=Okiereddust]and attracts...gov't agents).

I would be inclined to reckon as rather likely that the little clay Hannukah puppets we refer to as "our government" would be under orders to employ their police state instrumentality in the task of infiltrating, for example, any pro-White organization that actually friggin' matters (which, I'm guessing, leaves out any you'd advocate one join). I suppose we might regard such inevitable and unstoppable infiltration of the Alliance as something of an unintended compliment from Satan's minions. But I feel like it would be premature for us to take pride in such a notion as of yet. After all, I'm not aware of any government infiltra(i)tors in the Alliance. Are you? Is David Pringle aware of any? No? Hmmm...

[QUOTE=Okiereddust]It really is a blot on white activists everywhere, who I think must see it as one of their greatest enemies.[/QUOTE]

That's right, folks! Don't focus your ire on George W. Bush, or the Office of Special Plans, or Sumner Redstone's media empire, or anything, you know, actually working to destroy you. Instead, send your volleys in the direction of arguably the single most effective Jew-critical organization outside of Europe and the Middle East, and who are working to prevent your destruction. Yeah. Good plan. You are one smart cookie there, Sarge.

Okiereddust

2005-04-13 00:57 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]Actually, Dr. Pierce pointed out precisely why the Alliance is NOT "in keeping with the historical post-WWII american conception of NS as a religion devoted to the 'fuehrer-prinzip,'" in very strongly worded and eloquent terms. The Alliance did have a problem for about two years after Dr. Pierce's death, when Erich Gliebe was, due to somethink akin to organizatonal inertia, invested with the same quasi-dictatorial powers that Dr. Pierce had rightly earned on the basis of merit. Its unfortunate in took the Alliance two years until after Dr. Pierce's death to begin heeding his words, but Erich Giebe has since been reigned in by the Executive Committee, which was formed about six months ago, and which has made Erich Gliebe's post as "National Chairman" little more than ceremonial. I believe it is generally understood that making Gliebe the National Chairman back in 2002 was a mistake, over and above the other mistake of not immediately recognizing that the new National Chairman would almost by definition not be qualified to wield the same level of authority as Dr. Pierce. For whatever reason, a compromise where Gliebe still gets to be the ceremonial head of the Alliance, while Kevin Alfred Strom, and the other serious-minded men on the Executive Committee, are the ones truly running the show.

The Alliance is actually much more active and effective than I have ever seen since becoming aware of its existence in 1995 (and becoming a member in 1996, as I remain today), and it seems likely David Pringle knows of this happy condition, thus it further seems likely David Pringle is a damned liar. What portion of his story is a lie? Virtually all of it? Quite possibly. Who knows what lies a liar may be telling, and when he may divurge into the truth? [/QUOTE]Well we've had numerous discussions on the NA here, and its effectiveness, strength and weaknesses, and relatoinship to other organizations, like the inimitable Linder (whose was once associated with it at least, but whose current role I can't follow). Its the same as with other organizations. You and Pringle seem to differ sharply that's for sure on your perception of the NA. His criticisms seem to hit home with my inclinations, but who knows? Everyone is entitled to his opinion I guess.

Kevin_O'Keeffe

2005-04-13 05:28 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Okiereddust]we've had numerous discussions on the NA here, and its effectiveness, strength and weaknesses...like the inimitable Linder (whose was once associated with it at least, but whose current role I can't follow).

Linder may have once been a member of the Alliance; I don't know. I do know I never heard of him until after he'd clearly disassociated himself from it, and he certaily never held any visible leadership role within the Alliance, nor did he ever work at the National Headquarters. Linder is one of the Alliance's most virulent critics on the pro-White side of the spectrum, so you're in truly excellent company here. :D

Okiereddust

2005-04-13 08:36 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]Linder may have once been a member of the Alliance; I don't know. I do know I never heard of him until after he'd clearly disassociated himself from it, and he certaily never held any visible leadership role within the Alliance, nor did he ever work at the National Headquarters. Linder is one of the Alliance's most virulent critics on the pro-White side of the spectrum, so you're in truly excellent company here. :D[/QUOTE] Well Linder and the NA both are both pretty hard-core ideologically - I doubt Linder as such speaks for all critics of the NA everywhere.

Regarding my orginal statement

[QUOTE=okiereddust]Interesting artice overall. What is of particular note is this little section on the basis of the NA's view of their organization and NS. It is as noted in keeping with the historical post-WWII american conception of NS as a religion devoted to the "fuehrer-prinzip". It is also inherently unstable organizationally, and attracts inherently unstable people (or gov't agents).

It really is a blot on white activists everywhere, who I think must see it as one of their greatest enemies.[/QUOTE]I was thinking of today's National Socialism in general, which Linder like it or not seems to epitimize more than the NA. Passages like this seem to illustrate the nature of the problem.

[QUOTE]This study disagrees with Leland Bell, who, in his In Hitler's Shadow: The Anatomy of American Nazism, argued that the post-Rockwell Nazi movement was more significant than the Rockwell movement. Aryeh Neier has observed that:

The major national Jewish groups enjoy far more sophisticated leadership than is available to most other cause *organisations in the United States. [B]The leaders of these groups knew very well that the Nazi movement... is miniscule... that it has no prospect[s] ... They also know that a tiny Nazi movement serves the purposes of organised Jewry... It even makes it more difficult for the shapers of American foreign policy to abandon Israel... The Nazis deter the expression of anti semitism in forms which may be more palatable to the American public... (205)

Therefore, according to Neier, post-Rockwell Nazism evolved into a newspaper sensation cleverly related to the needs of other organisations, particularly Zionists.[/B]Earlier, Rockwell had put together a programme which might have mobilised various right-wing groups behind the slogan "White Power." But Eric Campbell, a writer for White Power Report, said in relation to the post-Rockwell Nazi programme:

205 Aryeh Neier, op. cit., p. 34.

Overshadowed as it is with irrelevant alien and counter productive trappings, the Nazi/KKK program strikes no chord of sympathy or immediacy or interest, and hence receives no support from the American majority. 206

White Power Report, while arguing that there was a sort of universal National Socialist creed, demanded that National Socialism find a national application. The American Nazis failed in that regard, despite occasional references to this goal. Rockwell's tactical Nazism was accepted as dogma.

Similarly, the Nazis missed totally the significance of Rockwell's fascist synthesis. Indeed they viewed Rockwell's work as Phase One in the long march to power. The movement could not develop ideologically, and the loss of the leader-figure of Rockwell was perhaps decisive in that regard. The lesser figures of the post-Rockwell Nazi movement rendered themselves ridiculous in their squabbles and fragmented the movement. They failed to capitalise on Rockwell’s initiatives.

[URL=http://www.alphalink.com.au/~radnat/usanazis/chapter3.html]American Nazism In The Context Of The American Extreme Right 1960 - 1978 - The Post-Rockwell Period 1967-1978[/URL] [/QUOTE] Pringle may lack some of the details in his rather polemical piece, but in his frustration at the achievements of the NA I think he is right on. You may be a rather tolerant fellow, but most people when they see the legacy NS's have bequethed this country and the truly magnificent opportunity for a national revival they have squandered are in no mood for parsimoniusness. It really is difficult for me to see, in view of their constant attacks on other groups in particular (at least in the case of people likeLinder et. al. ) how one is disliking today's NS enough, really. That at least is my visceral reaction, from long experience with the fruits of VNN etc., and one which Pringle and a lot of others also seem to share.

Kevin_O'Keeffe

2005-04-13 08:46 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Okiereddust]I was thinking of today's National Socialism in general, which Linder like it or not seems to epitimize...It really is difficult for me to see, in view of their constant attacks on other groups in particular (at least in the case of people likeLinder et. al. ) how one is disliking today's NS enough, really. That at least is my visceral reaction, from long experience with the fruits of VNN etc., and one which Pringle and a lot of others also seem to share.[/QUOTE]

I think you vastly overestimate the significance of Linder. Among White Nationalists, he is an almost universally despised figure who is barred from attending virtually any WN function not put on by his VNN buddies. Outside of WN circles, he is a complete unknown. Rep. David Duke is the face of WN leadership in America today. Alex Linder is a pathetic embarassment, and quite possibly a COINTELPROesque plant.

Okiereddust

2005-04-13 09:16 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]I think you vastly overestimate the significance of Linder. Among White Nationalists, he is an almost universally despised figure who is barred from attending virtually any WN function not put on by his VNN buddies. Outside of WN circles, he is a complete unknown. Well you obviously weren't around here when Linder was first upon the scene. At one time Il Ragno, the one time self-acknowledged leader of the WN sympathizers here on this board thought he was the greatest thing to ever hit WN.

As to his influence, it seems to me there is a certain pathology to WN as described in this section.

[QUOTE]..... Whether this aspect was an expression of pathology, cultism or whatever, it managed to colour the movement with even more obscurity [/QUOTE]

And it seems to me that this pathology, as emphasized in the general drift of Linderism toward mocking any sort of articulate non-Nazi expression of nationalism (canny Sammy and Squinty Pat, faileoconservatism) continues to be be quite and unfortunately influrential.

Rep. David Duke is the face of WN leadership in America today. He may be the face, but his body is in the Ukraine.> Alex Linder is a pathetic embarassment, and quite possibly a COINTELPROesque plant.[/QUOTE]Well we'll never really know for sure barring a bolt from the sky, (like what uncovered Jennifer from Polinco's clever little nyme, "Triskelion").

Obnoxious as Linder is, he's still the active face of WN it seems to me. He was the one after all that raised $50,000 for Chester Doles. (However he came up with the money, I personally have my doubts :ph34r:)

Okiereddust

2005-04-17 04:00 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]Actually, Dr. Pierce pointed out precisely why the Alliance is NOT "in keeping with the historical post-WWII american conception of NS as a religion devoted to the 'fuehrer-prinzip,'" in very strongly worded and eloquent terms. The Alliance did have a problem for about two years after Dr. Pierce's death, when Erich Gliebe was, due to somethink akin to organizatonal inertia, invested with the same quasi-dictatorial powers that Dr. Pierce had rightly earned on the basis of merit. Its unfortunate in took the Alliance two years until after Dr. Pierce's death to begin heeding his words, but Erich Giebe has since been reigned in by the Executive Committee, which was formed about six months ago, and which has made Erich Gliebe's post as "National Chairman" little more than ceremonial. I believe it is generally understood that making Gliebe the National Chairman back in 2002 was a mistake, over and above the other mistake of not immediately recognizing that the new National Chairman would almost by definition not be qualified to wield the same level of authority as Dr. Pierce. [B]For whatever reason, a compromise where Gliebe still gets to be the ceremonial head of the Alliance, while Kevin Alfred Strom, and the other serious-minded men on the Executive Committee, are the ones truly running the show.[/B] [/QUOTE]Looks like this compromise [URL=http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showpost.php?p=110699&postcount=1]didn't quite work out[/URL].

Franco

2005-04-17 04:34 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]I think you vastly overestimate the significance of Linder. Among White Nationalists, he is an almost universally despised figure who is barred from attending virtually any WN function not put on by his VNN buddies. Outside of WN circles, he is a complete unknown. Rep. David Duke is the face of WN leadership in America today. Alex Linder is a pathetic embarassment, and quite possibly a COINTELPROesque plant.[/QUOTE]

Suuuure.

I didn't know "plants" used their real names and stayed in the WN movement for years.

If VNN were such an embarrassment, its web ratings would go down, not up. It would also not branch out as it is doing now [radio, tabloid newspaper, etc., the latter of which, the latest issue has just been finished].

Do I detect some sour grapes, Kevin?

:mellow:

Franco

2005-04-17 04:36 | User Profile

[QUOTE]Obnoxious as Linder is, he's still the active face of WN it seems to me. He was the one after all that raised $50,000 for Chester Doles. (However he came up with the money, I personally have my doubts ) ______[/QUOTE]

Donations were raised for Doles.

Howard Campbell, Jr.

2005-04-17 05:22 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Franco]Suuuure.

I didn't know "plants" used their real names and stayed in the WN movement for years.

If VNN were such an embarrassment, its web ratings would go down, not up. It would also not branch out as it is doing now [radio, tabloid newspaper, etc., the latter of which, the latest issue has just been finished].

Do I detect some sour grapes, Kevin?

:mellow:

------------[/QUOTE]

VNN Radio? What's the frequency of the Linder-Sender, F? :D

[img]http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/reports/misc/media/mosleyoswald.jpg[/img]

Okiereddust

2005-04-17 07:01 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Franco]Suuuure.

I didn't know "plants" used their real names and stayed in the WN movement for years. I'm not surprised at you not knowing anything Franco, even when it happens in the German National Democratic Party ad we talk about all the time on this forum. Deny Deny Deny

If VNN were such an embarrassment, its web ratings would go down, not up. What a wonderful success story, done completely on its own efforts. :ph34r: > It would also not branch out as it is doing now [radio, tabloid newspaper, etc., the latter of which, the latest issue has just been finished]. But mysteriously, not sent out yet.

Franco

2005-04-17 07:32 | User Profile

[QUOTE]But mysteriously, not sent out yet.[/QUOTE]

"Mysteriously?" It hasn't been printed yet. How could they send it out?

Okiereddust

2005-04-17 07:56 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Franco]"Mysteriously?" It hasn't been printed yet. How could they send it out?

-----------[/QUOTE]I can see you've been following this as closely as Martin Lindstedt

[QUOTE]By the way, Anti-oxus Eppissaknees admitted on VNN/TGMNN that Issue #2 of Linder's litterature hadn't been printed yet, although Traitor Glenn Millerbragged a month ago that he went 1200 miles to find a publisher for it and had it printed out. Figures don't lie but liars figure.[/QUOTE]

Franco

2005-04-17 13:34 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Okiereddust]I can see you've been following this as closely as Martin Lindstedt[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=17511[/url]

Okiereddust

2005-04-17 17:58 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Franco][url]http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=17511[/url]

-------------[/QUOTE] - Alex was waiting for some adobe acrobat editor software, like some kid in college doing a newsletter. Franco, you'd believe anything!

He might as well as said his dog died, he needed to work on his car, his aunt had a funeral - la de da.:lol:

Alex requested software that he could use to do the layout himself and set about learning its capabilities while at the same time producing what has now finalized as a knock-out issue #2. I helped him with graphics and cover production based on his concepts. I have only to collate and burn the files to disk and send them on their way to the printer.