← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Blond Knight
Thread ID: 17451 | Posts: 58 | Started: 2005-03-22
2005-03-22 02:09 | User Profile
[url]http://www.wmnn.com/[/url]
Eight dead in Red Lake shooting spree Home
(Red Lake, MN) -- Eight people are dead and as many as 15 injured after a shooting spree on the Red Lake Indian Reservation in northern Minnesota today. The FBI says the young man killed two people at a Red Lake home, reportedly his grandparents, before shooting three students, a teacher, a school security guard and himself at Red Lake High School. The shooter was a student at the high school. FBI spokesman Paul McCabe wouldn't talk about possible motives, "It's still a very fluid investigation and we're not going into too much detail. I want you to get the facts. We'll keep you aprised as the investigation continues and as we have more facts. Right now there is still a lot of work to do. They are still clearing the school as a precaution even though we believe the shooter is among the dead." Authorities received the call around three this afternoon.
2005-03-22 02:15 | User Profile
More info:
[url]http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5305359.html[/url]
Last update: March 21, 2005 at 7:42 PM Red Lake shootings: 8 dead, 14 injured Richard Meryhew, Star Tribune March 22, 2005
RED LAKE, Minn. -- A young man apparently shot and killed his grandmother and grandfather and then went to Red Lake High School where he killed five more people and injured 14, the FBI reports. The FBI also believes the shooter killed himself and apparently was acting alone.
Paul McCabe, spokesman for the FBI office in Minneapolis, said during a news conference at 6:15 p.m. that four students -- two boys, one believed to be the shooter, and two girls -- died. One female teacher and one security officer also died.
"This is a fluid investigation," McCabe said. "Right now there is still a lot of work to do. We're still clearing the school as a safety precaution even though we believe the shooter is among the dead."
He would not comment on the motive saying, "It is too early in the investigations."
McCabe provided no detail about the sequence of the shooting, but said the dead at the school were found in one room. When pressed for more information, McCabe said "We are not going to comment on any of the details right now. It's an ongoing investigation."
The Red Lake Net News, a webite supported by the tribe, identified the shooter's grandfather as a veteran law enforcement officer for the Red Lake Police Department, Daryl "Dash" Lussier. Red Lake
Lussier and his wife, who was not identified, were at their home in the Back of Town area in Red Lake when they were shot, the Net News reported.
Tribal fire marshal Roman Stately told KARE-11 TV that the shooter entered the school about 2 p.m, carrying a shotgun and two handguns. "After he shot a scurity guard, he walked down the hallway shooting, and went into a classroom where he shot a teacher and more students,'' Stately said. After the gunman shot himself, the school's estimated 200 students were evacuated, he said. Scene of shooting Scene of shooting Red Lake Net News
But Tribal treasurer Darrell Seki described the situation as "terrible. We see things like this happen outside the reservation, but now it's happened here, in our home. It's an awful situation.''
Red Lake High School principal Chris Dunshee called his wife Cathy shortly after the shootings occurred.
"He called to let me know he was OK and that was a relief,'' she said earlier today. "He didn't want to tell me any details, but said he thoughht five or six people were shot and that one was dead.'' FBI news conference FBI news conference David Brewster Associated Press
Sherri Birkeland, a spokeswoman for North Country Regional Hospital in Bemidji, said at about 6 p.m. that six people had been brought to the hospital. One was dead and three were admitted. Two others were taken to MeritCare Hospital in Fargo, N.D., which can treat very serious injuries.
American Indian Movement leader Clyde Bellecourt talked this afternoon to several family members on the reservation and said initial accounts of the shooting were unconfirmed and confusing.
"A lot of it's still second-hand, and sketchy,'' Bellecourt said. "Nobody has a clear idea of what exactly happened. The first report was that a student drove his car right into the school building, got out and shot a guard.''
He said he was told the gunman shot at least one teacher and three students. He also heard that the gunman shot himself.
"A grandmother of one of the students called to say her grandson was shot,'' Bellecourt said. "She was crying the whole time.''
Audrey Thayer, who lives in Bemidji and works as a researcher for the American Civil Liberties Union's Minneosta chapter, said the reservation was locked down by police with roadblocks. "They have got it closed off,'' she said.
Today's shooting was the second major school shooting in Minnesota in recent years. In September 2003, two students were shot at Rocori High School in central Minnesota.
Aaron Rollins, 17, and Seth Bartell, 14, both died from their wounds ââ¬â Rollins that day and Bartell 16 days later. Fellow student John Jason McLaughlin, 15 at the time of the shootings, awaits trial in the case.
The Red Lake Indian Reservation is in far northern Minnesota, about 240 miles north of the Twin Cities.
The school has 355 students in grades 9-12, with 31 teachers and a full staff of 55. The population is 100 percent Indian -- 81 percent of them are in poverty and 23 percent are in special education. The graduation rate is 57 percent
2005-03-22 02:16 | User Profile
Blond Knight, we must try to understand this injun. His murderous rampage must have been due to his rage over all the sports teams with injun names.
2005-03-22 02:35 | User Profile
BK,
The news media didn't give any information about this other that a school had been shot up in MN when I first heard of it. I figured one of our Hmongs had been at it again.
2005-03-22 03:33 | User Profile
Injuns, guns and firewater (no doubt) a bad combination.
2005-03-22 03:45 | User Profile
Sert,
Since we have recently had horrible crimes committed by an oddball, white trash, goofy sect member, another by a savage negro beast, perhaps Little Aqua Velva was "feeling" left out, and decided to achieve his 15 minutes of fame via a murderous rampage.
Robert - Most likely a case of misunderstanding. We will need lots of taxpayers $ for councillers, psychologists, mentors, remedial teaching, yada,yada, yada....
BTW - Faux Jews is reporting 10 dead.
2005-03-22 04:08 | User Profile
It's moronic threads like these which take this whole White thing past merely slackjawed distasteful.
(1) Why stop short? Why no high fives for his taking out "his own" ... as likely an assumption as any on this thread.
(2) What's the difference between this and one of the gramscian stripes of the Rainbow Coalition ... you too view the world as do they! Got your own set of buzzwords and everything ... Uber Under All ya's do.
Well ... guess it's cause you're only human. What a drag you make it out to be.
2005-03-22 04:14 | User Profile
You're kind of pissy little bitch arent ya?
2005-03-22 04:18 | User Profile
The two white boys who shot up Columbine were just brats, according to conventional wisdom. This Indian kid is just suffering from poverty. Right?
Why is the Indian town poor? All those extra freebies they get for being Indians?
Fox News has the answer: "Nearly 39 percent of the families on the reservation live below the poverty line. Because the reservation is so remote, the tribe has largely missed out on the lucrative casino revenues that some other Minnesota tribes enjoy." [URL=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151097,00.html]link[/URL]
Have we written of Indians as worthless if they're not providing gambling or tobacco to whites?
2005-03-22 04:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=askel5]It's moronic threads like these which take this whole White thing past merely slackjawed distasteful.
(1) Why stop short? Why no high fives for his taking out "his own" ... as likely an assumption as any on this thread.
(2) What's the difference between this and one of the gramscian stripes of the Rainbow Coalition ... you too view the world as do they! Got your own set of buzzwords and everything ... Uber Under All ya's do.
Well ... guess it's cause you're only human. What a drag you make it out to be.[/QUOTE] I was laughing my ass off until I came to your downer post.
2005-03-22 04:38 | User Profile
Red Lake Net News Website:
[url]http://www.rlnn.com/[/url]
Story @ Red Lake Reservation website:
[url]http://www.rlnn.com/ArtMar05/Shooting.html[/url]
2005-03-22 04:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE=askel5]It's moronic threads like these which take this whole White thing past merely slackjawed distasteful.[/QUOTE]
You seem to be hung up on the slack jaw. Maybe you could expand into red necks and buck teeth. An Indian blows away half the reservation, some white posters accurately observe that if the killer had been white, no sympathy would have been forthcoming, and your response to that is to sputter epithets [I]about whites.[/I] To be insulted as a white, all I need do is flip on the tube or stumble out my apartment door. In the normal course of things, I don't get that treatment here on OD.
2005-03-22 04:56 | User Profile
CornCod
You are very Right. [QUOTE]Injuns, guns and firewater (no doubt) a bad combination.[/QUOTE]
From an old thread:
[QUOTE]Indian trades use of granddaughter for Crack!
Man Charged in Rape-for-Crack Case on the Poospatuck Indian Reservation Boxer shorts were not an acceptable form of payment for crack one night in August on the Poospatuck Indian Reservation in Mastic, but authorities say Joseph Bullard offered to take a woman's 15-year-old granddaughter as payment instead. As the girl screamed in vain for her grandmother, Bullard raped and sodomized the teenager behind a house
In 1820, she would traded the use of her granddaughter for a bottle of whiskey and some glass beads.
More news on Indian child raising.
Drunken Indian Anderson Black killed his two young children by slashing their throats The murders occurred on the Navajo Reservation. Tribal law does not allow for the death penalty.Black's mother, Wilma Black, addressed reporters outside of the courthouse, speaking in Navajo for more than two minutes. Her son, Kenneth Black, Jr., offered only a brief translation, saying: "Look at yourselves and look at what your government does," he said. "Don't punish [Anderson Black]. Punish those who sell alcohol."
[url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7135[/url] [/QUOTE]
2005-03-22 04:56 | User Profile
An interesting thread from the forum on the Red Lake Net News website:
[url]http://www.redlakenation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=39[/url]
Excerpts:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:25 pm Post subject: Living off the Rez Reply with quote Fiiiiiiiiinally! A subject I can stick my big nose into! I for one can see both sides of this argument. I have seen the worst of Red Lake lately with the alcohol, drugs, suicide, senseless murder, shooting of houses all in the past year... holy @#%& that's depressing! I could go on, but I don't want that to be the main focus of my ramblings... it's too late. I'm too depressed now. Just kidding! I have been living here in Red Lake (Little Rock RULES! [is rules still cool to say?]) for about 25 of my 28 plus years of existence and can honestly say there have been times when I can't believe I'm trying to raise my kids in this type of environment. A few months ago, due to some family troubles, I had my family all packed up and ready to move to St. Paul. My girs were already registered at a school down there and excited to get away from here. But, for some reason, we didn't move (obviously). I can't really explain what made us stay. Probably the fear of not making it in the "big city" was our (my wife's) #1 concern. But after a while, I started to think clearly and put my ego aside. Then, I realized that this SHOULD be a place for a young Red Lake child to grow up. It's NOT now, but it SHOULD be. Something has to be done soon or all hell will break loose. But I've decided to tough it out here for as long as it takes so that my daughters will never be ashamed to say that they are from Red Lake, like most those who have deserted us and moved away(I don't mean you, C.E.). All I can do is stay here and try to raise my kids the best way I can and hope that they grow up right. Hopefully all of our kids will learn from our mistakes and make Red Lake a place to be proud of again
And:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:25 pm Post subject: Living off the Rez Reply with quote Fiiiiiiiiinally! A subject I can stick my big nose into! I for one can see both sides of this argument. I have seen the worst of Red Lake lately with the alcohol, drugs, suicide, senseless murder, shooting of houses all in the past year... holy @#%& that's depressing! I could go on, but I don't want that to be the main focus of my ramblings... it's too late. I'm too depressed now. Just kidding! I have been living here in Red Lake (Little Rock RULES! [is rules still cool to say?]) for about 25 of my 28 plus years of existence and can honestly say there have been times when I can't believe I'm trying to raise my kids in this type of environment. A few months ago, due to some family troubles, I had my family all packed up and ready to move to St. Paul. My girs were already registered at a school down there and excited to get away from here. But, for some reason, we didn't move (obviously). I can't really explain what made us stay. Probably the fear of not making it in the "big city" was our (my wife's) #1 concern. But after a while, I started to think clearly and put my ego aside. Then, I realized that this SHOULD be a place for a young Red Lake child to grow up. It's NOT now, but it SHOULD be. Something has to be done soon or all hell will break loose. But I've decided to tough it out here for as long as it takes so that my daughters will never be ashamed to say that they are from Red Lake, like most those who have deserted us and moved away(I don't mean you, C.E.). All I can do is stay here and try to raise my kids the best way I can and hope that they grow up right. Hopefully all of our kids will learn from our mistakes and make Red Lake a place to be proud of again
2005-03-22 07:18 | User Profile
Here comes what is probably a really stupid question, but I don't know the answer and I have been wondering about it. Why exactly is the FBI involved in this? I thought these tribes were almost like sovereign nations that had their own laws and take care of these things themselves. I know they have their own tribal police,etc. So what gives?
2005-03-22 08:39 | User Profile
[IMG]http://www.cnn.com/US/9901/04/obit.cody/eyes.jpg[/IMG]
2005-03-22 09:03 | User Profile
Stand by for more shrill calls for gun control in the wake of this incident. "Only the police and military should have guns. The rest of us should be good little slaves!" Never mind that the murder weapons here -- two handguns and a shotgun -- are thought to have been police guns that were owned by the shooter's grandfather (a cop). Whether or not that is the case will come to light fairly soon, no doubt. If those were police guns, then I advise everyone to make a mental note of it for use in future debates with gun grabbers.
2005-03-22 09:28 | User Profile
I wonder if Tom DeLay will blame this on the teaching of evolution in schools, like he did Columbine.
2005-03-22 14:34 | User Profile
This is one more item in the long line of arguments against the institution known as high school.
2005-03-22 14:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=SteamshipTime]This is one more item in the long line of arguments against the institution known as high school.[/QUOTE] Ironically enough, I was discussing my desire to homeschool my children (when I have some) with a friend this past weekend, and he was going on and on about the importance of the socialization that occurs in public school. Without that socialization, he said my kids would turn out to be nutjubs.
2005-03-22 15:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]Ironically enough, I was discussing my desire to homeschool my children (when I have some) with a friend this past weekend, and he was going on and on about the importance of the socialization that occurs in public school. Without that socialization, he said my kids would turn out to be nutjubs.[/QUOTE]You can always arrange for get-togethers w/ other homeschooled children. In any event, they'll have had all the socialization they can stand by age 14.
I have talked w/ some older parents about raising teenagers and they have said quite frankly that you are just about out of disciplinary options at that point. There is no healthy way to keep a bunch of young, strong adults in neat little rows and herd them around with bells for 6 hours every day. Sociologically, high schools are prisons, complete with wardens, guards, trustees, stool pigeons, etc. When one of the inmates goes on a rampage, everyone acts surprised.
2005-03-22 15:25 | User Profile
Oh boy, the shooter, Jeff Weisse, was apparently a "NativeNazi" and admirer of Hitler. Boy, the Zionists scored a homerun with this incident!!! Now there's reasons to ban both guns and "Nazis" from the face of America. Guess the Ministry of Media were greatly dissapointed and let down that the Lefkow killer didn't turn out to be a White "supremacist" and their god, Moloch, has now answered all prayers.
[QUOTE][url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7259823/[/url] [B]Online postings about 'racial purity'[/B]
Weise was also found by the St. Paul Pioneer Press newspaper to have posted several comments last year on an online forum frequented by neo-Nazis. He used the pen names Todesengel, German for "angel of death," and "NativeNazi."
"I guess I've always carried a natural admiration for Hitler and his ideals, and his courage to take on larger nations," Weise wrote in one session.
He shared the Nazi goal of racial purity, saying that when he talked in school about that for his own Chippewa tribe, "I get the same old argument which seems to be so common around here. 'We need to mix all the races, to combine all the strengths.'"
"They (teachers) don't openly say that racial purity is wrong," he added, "yet when you speak your mind on the subject you get 'silenced' real quick by the teachers and likeminded school officials."
"When I was growing up, I was taught (like others) that Nazi's were evil and that Hitler was a very evil man," he said in another posting. "Of course, not for a second did I believe this. ... They truly were doing it for the better."
He also wrote that he planned to recruit high school students to join a neo-Nazi movement he hoped to start on his reservation.
"The only ones who oppose my views are the teachers at the high school, and a large portion of the student body who think a Nazi is a Klansman, or a White Supremacist thug," he wrote. "Most of the Natives I know have been poisoned by what they were taught in school."[/QUOTE]
2005-03-22 15:53 | User Profile
[I]This [/I] Indian doesn't say 'how' - he says 'heil'!
I suppose this is going to start another wave of panic like the Lefkow thing did. You can find people named Todesengel on 300 different heavy-metal and goth-rock forums alone.
I wonder if the five-percenter and free-Mumia blacks who also populate the WWW ever did anything but smile at news of the Terry Nichols murders. Has any enterprising reporter bothered to monitor their websites for inappropriate displays of delight after it happened?
2005-03-22 16:22 | User Profile
These Indians have what I want, the ability to live among the people of their own choosing and without being demonized or burdened by excessive government. But, they're a bunch of sad sacks on welfere who depend on selling addiction to whites for a living. Yet, we're suppose to think of them as the victims.
The school has metal detectors and secuirty guards at the doors. Why does a podunk school need metal detectors and guards?
2005-03-22 16:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=SteamshipTime]You can always arrange for get-togethers w/ other homeschooled children. In any event, they'll have had all the socialization they can stand by age 14.[/QUOTE] I agree completely; I was just commenting on how this incident puts the lie to my friend's reasoning. Most of the socialization acquired from public schools is negative. The idea of taking all children away from their families and putting them into regimented learning platoons is a modern innovation, historically speaking. When children interact with adults, they learn to behave as adults. When they interact strictly with other children, it creates a rebellious youth subculture.
2005-03-22 16:28 | User Profile
This is really getting confusing. We start out with injuns, guns and firewater. Ok, that makes sense. Anybody whose brain isn't addled by PC knows those three things are a bad combination.
Then we are told that the killer is a hitler fan when you'd expect him to be a geronimo fan.
Then his name is listed as Jeff Weise. Now you'd expect a name more like "Jeff Me Drink Too Much Firewater". But, no, he's got a joo name.
Can someone explain this; a drunk jooish nazi injun?
2005-03-22 16:38 | User Profile
I like this:
[QUOTE] When children interact with adults, they learn to behave as adults. When they interact strictly with other children, it creates a rebellious youth subculture. [/QUOTE]
2005-03-22 16:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Robert]This is really getting confusing. We start out with injuns, guns and firewater. Ok, that makes sense. Anybody whose brain isn't addled by PC knows those three things are a bad combination.
Then we are told that the killer is a hitler fan when you'd expect him to be a geronimo fan.
Then his name is listed as Jeff Weise. Now you'd expect a name more like "Jeff Me Drink Too Much Firewater". But, no, he's got a joo name.
Can someone explain this; a drunk jooish nazi injun?[/QUOTE] Either there's a Jew somewhere in the woodpile, or one of his forebears decided the family needed a white man's name and happened to pick "Weise."
2005-03-22 16:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=SteamshipTime]I like this:> When children interact with adults, they learn to behave as adults. When they interact strictly with other children, it creates a rebellious youth subculture. [/QUOTE]
Strictly, sure, but ideally you would have a good mix of authority figures and peers at a high school of your choice, which makes for healthy socialization in my opinion.
Maybe y'all had bad experiences in high school, I don't know, but there are things about the high school experience that I enjoyed very much and hope my children get to experience as well. Not at a public high school, mind you, but at a fairly decent sized private high school, good Lord willing.
2005-03-22 17:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=starr]Here comes what is probably a really stupid question, but I don't know the answer and I have been wondering about it. Why exactly is the FBI involved in this? I thought these tribes were almost like sovereign nations that had their own laws and take care of these things themselves. I know they have their own tribal police,etc. So what gives?[/QUOTE] Why did the FBI take over the Brian Nichols escape and manhunt? With the school I figure it must be either part of the Patriot Act (feds gets involved in terrorist incidents at schools) or just post-9/11 operating procedure.
2005-03-22 17:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Strictly, sure, but ideally you would have a good mix of authority figures and peers at a high school of your choice, which makes for healthy socialization in my opinion. In a normal high school, there are authority figures, but they are just that -- figures. There is no interaction with them the way there is with the other kids. It tends to ghetto-ize the youth, making them feel that they are different from the culture in which they live. It is no coincidence that the concepts of 'the teenager' and inevitable teenage rebellion did not exist until after the advent of mandatory public education. In earlier times, a thirteen-year-old was treated like a little adult. Now twenty-five year olds are treated like big children.
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Maybe y'all had bad experiences in high school, I don't know, but there are things about the high school experience that I enjoyed very much and hope my children get to experience as well. Not at a public high school, mind you, but at a fairly decent sized private high school, good Lord willing.[/QUOTE]Actually, I had a heckuva lotta fun in high school. Probably a little too much, in retrospect. But I was also stuffed full of liberal, modernist crap that it took me the better part of a decade to disgorge.
2005-03-22 17:52 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]In a normal high school, there are authority figures, but they are just that -- figures.
Which dove tails quite nicely with life as we know it. The real world has managers, regional VPs, sheriffs, the president, etc.
There is no interaction with them the way there is with the other kids. It tends to ghetto-ize the youth, making them feel that they are different from the culture in which they live.
Uh, don't forget parents, Q. They're supposed to be intimately involved in their kids' lives. I can't help but think that healthy families coupled with healthy communities don't automatically produce teenage marilyn mansons every time. Exceptions? Sure, but it aint all bad, brother.
It is no coincidence that the concepts of 'the teenager' and inevitable teenage rebellion did not exist until after the advent of mandatory public education. In earlier times, a thirteen-year-old was treated like a little adult. Now twenty-five year olds are treated like big children.
To my mind, a big part of that is the wholesale abandonment of trade vocation education and emphasis on college for everyone. We have very few of our people going into trades these days, which is a real shame.
Actually, I had a heckuva lotta fun in high school. Probably a little too much, in retrospect. But I was also stuffed full of liberal, modernist crap that it took me the better part of a decade to disgorge.[/QUOTE]
As was I, but somehow we both have seem to come through it, none the worse for a little wear and maybe a bit wiser, as well.
2005-03-22 18:10 | User Profile
Here's the spin:
[URL=http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1498356/20050321/index.jhtml?headlines=true]High School Shooter Reportedly Admired Hitler, Was Previously Investigate[/URL]d
2005-03-22 18:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Jack Cassidy]Why did the FBI take over the Brian Nichols escape and manhunt? With the school I figure it must be either part of the Patriot Act (feds gets involved in terrorist incidents at schools) or just post-9/11 operating procedure.[/QUOTE] It was just a school shooting on an indian reservation with all native american victims. They should have let the tribe handle this. If I was a member of this tribe or any tribe, I would be quite pissed about the feds getting involved. They are really overstepping their authority here.
2005-03-22 18:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident] Uh, don't forget parents, Q. They're supposed to be intimately involved in their kids' lives. I can't help but think that healthy families coupled with healthy communities don't automatically produce teenage marilyn mansons every time. Exceptions? Sure, but it aint all bad, brother. I'm not forgetting the role of parents; on the contrary, I'm insisting on it. I think, in general, that a healthy family is one in which the parents are extremely involved in the education and raising of their children, and that a healthy community is made up of healthy families. Packing your kids off to government-run education/indoctrination centers for 8 hours a day is not the ideal way to encourage parental participation.
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]To my mind, a big part of that is the wholesale abandonment of trade vocation education and emphasis on college for everyone. We have very few of our people going into trades these days, which is a real shame. I agree, but vocational training was traditionally done in an apprenticeship system, which is really much like homeschooling. So we are both lamenting the loss of the same thing -- parental or community involvement in the education of the young.
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]As was I, but somehow we both have seem to come through it, none the worse for a little wear and maybe a bit wiser, as well.[/QUOTE]Yes, we did both come through it, thank God. But look around you, brother, most people are not making it through in as good a shape as you and I.
2005-03-22 19:42 | User Profile
My favorite quote:
"It's hard though, being a Native American National Socialist..."
We all have our crosses to bear.
2005-03-23 00:34 | User Profile
Full story here: [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17452[/url]
2005-03-23 01:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE]
Uh, don't forget parents, Q. They're supposed to be intimately involved in their kids' lives. I can't help but think that healthy families coupled with healthy communities don't automatically produce teenage marilyn mansons every time. Exceptions? Sure, but it aint all bad, brother.
[/QUOTE] Teenage Marilyn Mansons????? What does that mean,exactly?
2005-03-23 02:48 | User Profile
Jack Cassidy:
Seems as if the Fedgov still has some jurisdiction over the Indian "Nations". Hence, the FBI handles investigations of serious crimes, not the respective state agencies.
Quote of Red Lake Official:
Mills explained why the FBI was investigating the incident. He said the federal government is responsible for all major crimes that occur on Indian Reservations. Red Lake falls under that jurisdiction of the FBI. Major crimes include homicides, rape, assaults, kidnapping and ect. The Red Lake Police Department handles a lot of the misdemeanor cases and assists the FBI on their felony cases.
[url]http://www.rlnn.com/ArtMar05/Shooting.html[/url]
Also, from the FBI"S website:
The FBI has criminal jurisdiction in "Indian Country" (the official name for the program) for major crimes under the "Indian Country" Crimes Act (Title 18, United States Code, Section 1152), the Indian Country Major Crimes Act (Title 18, United States Code, Section 1153), and the Assimilative Crimes Act (Title 18, United States Code, Section 13). The 1994 Crime Act expanded federal criminal jurisdiction in Indian Country in such areas as guns, violent juveniles, drugs, and domestic violence. Under the Indian Gaming Regulatory Act, the FBI has jurisdiction over any criminal act directly related to casino gaming. The FBI also investigates civil rights violations, environmental crimes, public corruption, and government fraud occurring in "Indian Country."
[url]http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/indian/about.htm[/url]
2005-03-23 03:32 | User Profile
So the idea that these reservations are sovereign nations is basically bull? Does this violate the treaties?
2005-03-23 03:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hugh Lincoln]To be insulted as a white, all I need do is[/QUOTE]
Think of yourself as a "white".
You're no different than the rest of the rainbow coalition.
2005-03-23 03:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=askel5]Think of yourself as a "white".
You're no different than the rest of the rainbow coalition.[/QUOTE]
You're a troll.
2005-03-23 16:47 | User Profile
One of the guys in Columbine was half-Jewish, as I recall.
Everyone can see the West is falling apart ;)
Here's the LNSG press release:
[url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17452[/url]
2005-03-24 18:34 | User Profile
**"Injun On Warpath" **
LOL! Very appropriate title, Blond Knight. :)
2005-03-25 02:31 | User Profile
It is dismaying that most people cannot see Jeff Weise was an ally, not an enemy.
2005-03-25 03:49 | User Profile
Comparing Adolf Bloody Bear's skool rampage to the others, one of the ugly jewesses from CNN's smelly herd brayed that "The shootings have this fact in common: ALL WERE COMMITTED BY WHITE BOYS......"
2005-03-25 03:57 | User Profile
Good to see you again, N.B.
Do you remember which idiot on CCN said that?
2005-03-25 04:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Good to see you again, N.B.
Do you remember which idiot on CCN said that?[/QUOTE]
Hi, Sert. Good to see you too.
No, I don't - there are so many horse-faced JAPs on there it's hard to tell 'em apart.
2005-03-25 12:55 | User Profile
What do the majority of these school murders have in common?
The criminals went after Christians. In this case, as in the others, the murderer asked at least one of his victims if he believed in God (Christ).
2005-03-27 13:02 | User Profile
The killer made an animated flash movie and posted it on the internet last year. You can view it here:
[url]http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0323051weise1.html[/url]
If this cartoon doesn't say "at risk" I don't know what does...
2005-03-27 15:16 | User Profile
More of "Life on the Rez."
ABC News Reservation Life Grinds Down Indian Youths Suicide, Depression, Poverty, Among Problems That Plague Young American Indians on Reservations By DEBORAH HASTINGS The Associated Press
Mar. 27, 2005 - The obituary in the small town paper was heartbreaking: Chase Albert "Beka" Lussier, born Dec. 23, 1989, died March 21 at Red Lake High School. A freshman who played basketball and loved computer games. Six paragraphs down, beside the photograph of a chubby-cheeked, smiling boy, came this sentence: "He spent his time juggling life between his family and his son."
A father at 15. Dead three months later. Shot with eight others by an alienated, despondent upperclassman who, at the end of his 10-minute walk through Red Lake High School, turned one of his guns on himself.
The deaths, conspicuous in their senselessness, highlight the problems that American Indian teenagers have been quietly suffering in greater numbers than most adolescents: suicide, violence, depression and pregnancy.
By themselves, the numbers for the Red Lake Indian Reservation are staggering. A state survey conducted last year of 56 ninth-graders showed that 81 percent of the girls, and 43 percent of the boys, had considered suicide.
Nearly half the girls said they'd actually tried to kill themselves. Twenty percent of boys said the same numbers about triple the rate statewide.
"I don't have an explanation for that," said Brenda Child, who teaches American Indian history at the University of Minnesota and grew up on the reservation. Her cousin, 14-year-old Ryan Auginash, was shot in the chest during 16-year-old Jeff Weise's march through the campus.
She doesn't want to view the shootings through the prism of American Indian troubles. "I see it as a problem of a young man who was deeply depressed," she said. "Sadly, that can happen anywhere."
Here, where the Red Lake band of Chippewa has lived in isolation on more than 830,000 acres in northern Minnesota since 1889, such things are not openly discussed.
It simply is not their way. For much of the week, they slammed the door of their reservation to the prying eyes of television cameras and reporters who wanted to know why Weise shot his grandfather, a tribal policeman everyone knew as "Dash," and the man's girlfriend, then drove to the high school entrance behind the wheel of his grandfather's police car. Weise, wearing his grandfather's gunbelt and toting a shotgun, opened fire at the front door, by the lone metal detector.
Tribal elders have said little, as have residents. Some students have been more open, describing Weise as a depressed, friendless boy who talked of shooting people.
On Web site postings, Weise described himself as "nothing but your average Native-American stoner" and described his life on the reservation as "every man's nightmare. This place never changes and it never will."
Weise had not always lived on the reservation. He arrived after his father committed suicide four years ago. His mother, a heavy drinker, was severely injured in an alcohol-related auto accident. The boy had nowhere else to go.
Some on the reservation say Weise had been seeing a professional and taking medication for his depression, which is evident on Internet postings such as this one, where under a section titled "A Little About Me," he typed "16 years of accumulated rage suppressed by nothing more than brief glimpses of hope, which have all but faded to black."
On Thursday, outside the hospital in Bemidji, a small town 32 miles south of the reservation, Andrew Auginash was there to visit his wounded brother, Ryan. "I don't want anything bad said about our reservation," he said. "It's like any other place."
The Minnesota survey of Red Lake students said they assaulted other classmates and used more alcohol and drugs than other students across the state.
Nationwide figures show that American Indian teenagers commit suicide at three times the national rate; are involved in alcohol-related arrests at twice the national average, and die in alcohol-related incidents at 17 times the national average.
They are third-highest in teen pregnancies, behind Hispanics and blacks.
"My mother moved us off the reservation when I was very young. And I am very glad she did that," says Bill Lawrence, publisher of the Native American Press-Ojibwe News, a 5,000-circulation weekly newspaper in Bemidji.
"The kids there come from drugs, alcohol, broken families, abuse," he says sadly. "To grow up under these circumstances is a tremendous ordeal. And to consider suicide means you think there is no other way out."
Lawrence is a member of the Red Lake band and has relatives and friends on reservation, he says. "Only the most gifted students can overcome this stuff. A lot of kids don't go to school. About 50 percent don't graduate. How do you go on after that? They're not qualified to get a job or go to college."
Sister Patricia Wallis has lived at the reservation, off and on, since 1951, working at a mission that has a school and convent. To Wallis, the problems here come from grinding, dehumanizing, relentless poverty.
"They're not able to succeed in school. If something happens, or someone dies, or there's been an accident, they don't come regularly. Some stay at home because they have to baby-sit their siblings or they have to help out."
Another problem is housing, she said. There aren't enough places to live on the reservation, so families and cousins and children live crowded together in single homes. This has worsened lately, Wallis said, because many who left to make their way in the outside world are now returning in large numbers after failing to find any kind of work because they have no experience or training.
"When you put a lot of adults and children together in one house, you get bedlam," Wallis said. "The children get no rest, they get no sleep, arguments break out between the adults and they come to school carrying all this."
Wallis has not lost hope, and she is careful in choosing her words to describe life here for young people. "I love these people with all my heart," she says.
Then she tells the story of a sixth-grade boy whose father got a new girlfriend. The woman didn't like the boy. "She said "Either he goes, or I go.' And guess who had to go? Now he's living with his cousins and he's suffering."
The boy grew angry in class at the reservation, she said, and he was pulled out by his relatives and sent to public school.
Children and teenagers here, despite the isolation and the cultural importance of turning inward, have only to sign on to the Internet, or turn on the satellite TV, to see that other people, in places not that far way, have things they don't.
"If you've never really been loved, how can you love yourself?" she asks. "How can you make something out of yourself?"
2005-03-27 15:31 | User Profile
Another article, BTW, I agree with the Tribal Chairman, Mr. Jourdain, on keeping the media at arms length.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [url]http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforks/11240956.htm[/url]
A nation on his shoulders
High school shooting makes a heavy burden for Red Lake Nation Chairman Floyd Jourdain
By Dorreen Yellow Bird
Herald Staff Writer
FARGO - In a matter of hours Monday, Floyd "Buck" Jourdain Jr., tribal chairman of the Red Lake Chippewa Nation, was thrown into the national spotlight.
When the tragic school shooting that took the lives of six teens and four adults became public, the media dove into the school shootings without realizing the difference between sovereign tribal nations and the rest of the states.
The tragedy that put the Red Lake Band on worldwide screens also set the catastrophe squarely on the shoulders of Jourdain. He was 40 years old when elected chairman and the youngest person to assume the chairman position. He was sworn in only seven months before the incident. Suddenly, Jourdain said, the Red Lake community was looking to him for answers and support.
Jourdain isn't alone. He said he has a council who have been tireless in supporting the community. They are a hands-on group. They have gathered donations for the people, provided support and helped with the needs of the people.
He said he followed the Columbine High School shootings in Littleton, Colo., several years ago, never thinking that same kind of tragedy would visit his home reservation.
"It broke my heart," he said, "to see how the high school was bombarded day-after-day by the media."
He didn't want that to happen to Red Lake, so he and the tribal council implemented restrictions on the media.
"It wasn't good to see three young women on the front page crying," he said, referring to images that ran in newspapers nationwide the day after.
On the media
Those young women were in pain, and that isn't a public event, Jourdain said. The press took offense at the restrictions, but they need to remember, he said, there is an investigation going on. The tribe must provide for the needs of the survivors.
Families also are carrying out traditions and can't be disturbed.
"We consider ourselves a unique nation and the survivors have special needs," he said.
Jourdain said key areas of the reservation had no-nonsense security officers guarding them. The media, with their huge saucers pointed skyward, were restricted to the parking lot of the Red Lake Police Department - the very department that lost Daryl Lussier, Weise's grandfather and one of their sergeants.
The media that didn't take the restrictions seriously found, to their chagrin, cameras and equipment confiscated. They questioned the tribe about their rights as press, but, Jourdain said, when you enter another country, you live in accordance with their rules and policies and respect their law.
He asked: Why, then, does the media feel they can go and do whatever they want on the Red Lake reservation?
"It is rare that the media comes to the reservation to visit," he said.
Jourdain wasn't impressed with some of the questions the media asked. They didn't do their homework, he said. One reporter asked what sage was used for. Another asked if a body needed to be buried in 24 hours. Another reporter asked why the FBI was involved in the shootings. And there were questions about the sovereignty of the Red Lake Nation.
They only come when there is an incident and now that there is a tragedy, they want full access, he said.
It troubles Jourdain that the interest of the media seems to be about the angst, hurt and carnage of the Red Lake people. The perspective of the media has been focused on the negative, Jourdain said, the appalling negative perspective that perpetuates the state of despair and violence on reservations that Red Lake reads and hears most of the time. That, he said, is not telling the clear truth, either.
Next steps
Now the tribe is preparing for the days and years ahead, Jourdain said.
"We are planning what is next for the Red Lake people, but the concentration remains on the tragic events of March 21."
Throughout the days following the shootings, the tribe has come together for strength. They met, a few nights ago, at the Humanities Center in Red Lake. Thirty pipe carriers and traditional drummers came to the center. There were groups from many tribes around the region. Representatives and spiritual leaders from Canada also came.
The tribe wants to reach out for the families at home and pray in the traditional way, Jourdain said.
Jourdain sees Indian country as a place with problems.
Planning for the future has only begun. Jourdain said he and the tribal council want to help the Red Lake people, and all native people, for that matter, make a connection by taking part in traditional activities such as powwows, where all generations sing, dance, pray, eat and have a good time together.
There's an overwhelming message in the shootings, he said.
"This is a wake-up call for Indian country. We need to pay attention to our children. We need to respect and love one another and we need to find ways to connect better. We need to pay attention to those in the community who are hurting instead of getting lost in our own individuality."
2005-03-29 02:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE]By themselves, the numbers for the Red Lake Indian Reservation are staggering. A state survey conducted last year of 56 ninth-graders showed that 81 percent of the girls, and 43 percent of the boys, had considered suicide.
Nearly half the girls said they'd actually tried to kill themselves. Twenty percent of boys said the same numbers about triple the rate statewide.
"I don't have an explanation for that," said Brenda Child....[/QUOTE] I do. That's what happens when your country is taken away from you, and it goes a long way to explaining the low birth rates in white nations.
2005-03-29 03:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE] We consider ourselves a unique nation and the survivors have special needs," he said.
"This is a wake-up call for Indian country. We need to pay attention to our children. We need to respect and love one another and we need to find ways to connect better. We need to pay attention to those in the community who are hurting instead of getting lost in our own individuality." [/QUOTE]
very well said. Now if he would put those words into action. This guy would make a great leader for many in the native american community. Too bad there are not more white people who can, and would think on the same terms.
2005-03-29 04:18 | User Profile
There is little need for over-indulgence, or the seeking of purpose, in this particular case.
It is an unfortunate but expected tragedy.
The boy killed a close relative, and at the end, took his own life. This is not a question of ideology or reading of books. Many die for their beliefs. But the taking of oneââ¬â¢s own life indicates an error. A certain weakness. Perhaps over-sensitivity in the notion of isolation.
But more so - it is medical and not political.
Mentzer
2005-03-29 07:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=mwdallas]I do. That's what happens when your country is taken away from you, and it goes a long way to explaining the low birth rates in white nations.[/QUOTE]
Dang Ben, that's a good point.
2005-03-29 07:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=mwdallas]I do. That's what happens when your country is taken away from you, and it goes a long way to explaining the low birth rates in white nations.[/QUOTE]
That, and White women are out having caweers [careers] instead of staying at home having children. A woman staying home and raising kids?? Oh, that's sooooo retrograde, says birthed-by-Jews feminism.
Women today must 1) go to college; 2) get a degree, for about $40,000; 3) get a job wearing man-pants and giving orders to whupped White guys; 4) delay childbirth until it's too late/or have only 1 child.
Thanks, feminism. Thanks, Hollywood. Thanks Jew-Jewy popular culture in which up is down and black is white.
2005-03-29 13:56 | User Profile
[url]http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/03/29/MNGBRBVUL81.DTL[/url]
Tribal leader's son held in Minnesota killings
Juvenile is suspected of helping gunman plan reservation rampage, officials say - Dan Eggen and Dana Hedgpeth, Washington Post Tuesday, March 29, 2005
Federal authorities have arrested the son of Red Lake tribal chairman Floyd Jourdain Jr. in connection with the shooting spree that killed 10 people on the tribe's Minnesota reservation last week, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said Monday.
U.S. Attorney Thomas Heffelfinger in Minneapolis announced an arrest Monday but declined to provide details about the juvenile suspect or his alleged connection to the killings, citing federal confidentiality rules governing juveniles.
But two law enforcement officials familiar with the investigation said the teenager, arrested Sunday in Duluth, Minn., was suspected of helping Jeff Weise, 16, plan last week's assault and had expected to be part of the rampage. Prosecutors are considering whether to charge the juvenile as an adult with conspiracy to commit murder, the officials said.
Authorities have not ruled out more arrests and are continuing to question other teenagers about whether they knew about Weise's plans beforehand, the law enforcement officials said.
The arrest represents a surprising shift in the investigation of the March 21 killings, and was announced on the same day that Weise and three of his victims were laid to rest in funerals. Weise killed nine people, including five students and a teacher, before killing himself. He has been portrayed as a troubled loner with a history of depression, family tragedy and violent fantasies.
Heffelfinger said that the juvenile had been arrested "as a result of the ongoing and continuing investigation into the events of March 21" and that the case was being handled by U.S. District Court in Minneapolis.
FBI officials in Minneapolis declined to comment on the arrest. The agent in charge of the probe, Michael Tabman, said in a statement that "from the beginning, we made a promise to close every loop, to leave no stone unturned and to ensure that the investigation is thorough and complete."
Meanwhile, tribal members and outsiders continued to mourn those who were killed. Funerals were held Monday for Weise; security guard Derrick Brun, 28; student Alicia White, 14; and teacher Neva Rogers, 62. Three funerals were held Saturday.
Jeffrey May, 15, who was shot in the head, was listed in serious condition. Steven Cobenais, 15, was also shot in the head and was listed in critical condition. They are in MeritCare Hospital in Fargo, N.D.
The elder Jourdain has been the official face of the tribe in the days following Weise's attack. At a news conference Thursday, he said: "This is a wake-up call to us all. We need to spend more time with one another and paying more attention to our young people and what they're doing and what they are saying."
Jourdain was not at tribal headquarters Monday evening. Officials there released a brief statement referring all questions to federal authorities. Jourdain did not answer his cell phone or respond to an e-mail.