← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Excavator
Thread ID: 16682 | Posts: 34 | Started: 2005-02-09
2005-02-09 22:44 | User Profile
I have a surplus Ithaca Model 37 Military shotgun. How does it compare with the Remington 870 for reliability and functionality? Why did the military discontinue use of this shotgun? Are accessories avialable to enhance this shotgun? Thanx in advance.:thumbsup:
2005-02-10 02:30 | User Profile
I had a Model 37 for years that I bought used from a pawn shop, not military, killed a dozen or so deer with it, a wild turkey or two, shot a bunch of clay pigeons with super hot shells hand loaded by an over-enthusiastic buddy, I think that's what finally killed the gun, and I really loved that gun. Haven't owned a gun since the Ithaca malfunctioned years ago killing the trophy buck I'd been after for so many years. It became a part of me, with no aiming necessary, just looking at what I wanted to shoot and allowing the gun to jump up to my shoulder and get the job done. But that's just me, your results may vary.
2005-02-10 03:10 | User Profile
I've heard some good things about the Ithaca 37, but I've never owned or even handled one.
2005-02-10 13:35 | User Profile
I know the military used pump shotguns, and I've seen pictures of them. But like you Angler, I never handled one.
By the way Excavator, welcome to the OD forum. :)
2005-02-10 14:00 | User Profile
I'm on the verge of buying a Remington 870 combat shotgun. That is if I can get one in California. I don't even know if pistol grips, which is what I'm interested in having on my shotgun, are legal in this state.
2005-02-10 16:10 | User Profile
Bardamu,
I think you're OK re: the pistol grip, because the 870's a pump gun, not an evil semi-auto.
If you do get a pistol grip, you should consider getting a regular stock to go with it (or at least a folder) because while a PG on a scattergun looks "sexy" it's a real pain in the wrist to fire without some sort of shoulder support.
2005-02-10 16:22 | User Profile
BTW, the 37's are good for left-handed shooters, because of the bottom ejection.
2005-02-10 18:36 | User Profile
Bardamu,
See Faust's post called 'Guns to Grab' regarding the Remington 870 and the Mossberg 500.
Personally I like my 870 w/o the pistol grip though (Don't like em).
2005-02-11 01:00 | User Profile
How about Wilson Combat's shotguns? They're basically souped-up 870s. They do some good stuff to them, like putting on a tough finish, but I'm not quite sure they're worth the $1000+ tag. It's hard not to drool over 'em, though!
[img]http://www.wilsoncombat.com/images/product/SSTD-AS_side_saddle.jpg[/img]
2005-02-11 03:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MadScienceType]Bardamu,
I think you're OK re: the pistol grip, because the 870's a pump gun, not an evil semi-auto.
If you do get a pistol grip, you should consider getting a regular stock to go with it (or at least a folder) because while a PG on a scattergun looks "sexy" it's a real pain in the wrist to fire without some sort of shoulder support.[/QUOTE]
If I decide to purchase the 870 I will definitely get all the attachments,
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/bardamu/Rem870pmax_mirror.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/bardamu/rem870mcs_18.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/bardamu/rem870mcs_14_mirror.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/bardamu/rem870mcs_10.jpg[/IMG]
With the one exception of this one. I don't think the attachment is legal in California:
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/bardamu/rem870mcs_ax.jpg[/IMG]
:thumbsup:
2005-02-11 20:03 | User Profile
Man, those look sweet, Bardamu.
I would never get a shotgun without a stock on it -- too inaccurate. I think I'd prefer the pistol grip also.
That under-barrel shotgun attachment isn't something I'd really like to have on an M4. It seems like it'd make the weapon too unwieldy.
2005-02-11 20:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Angler]Man, those look sweet, Bardamu.
I would never get a shotgun without a stock on it -- too inaccurate. I think I'd prefer the pistol grip also.
That under-barrel shotgun attachment isn't something I'd really like to have on an M4. It seems like it'd make the weapon too unwieldy.[/QUOTE]
The under-barrel attachment does look a bit unwieldy. What is your recommendation, Angler, for a home defense shotgun?
2005-02-11 20:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]The under-barrel attachment does look a bit unwieldy. What is your recommendation, Angler, for a home defense shotgun?[/QUOTE] I don't really know much about them other than what I've heard from others, but most people seem to say that you can't go wrong with an 870.
One thing I'm a little confused about regarding the 870 has to do with something I saw on Remington's website:
NOTE: The Model 870â⢠Expressî is intended for personal use and will not accept law enforcement accessories.
Here's the link: [url]http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870expsyn18.htm[/url]
The whole list of 870 shotguns is here:
[url]http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870.htm[/url]
I'm not sure exactly what they mean by "law enforcement accessories," but they might be referring to pistol-grip stocks and so forth. If so, then that really pisses me off. I really hate companies that go out of their way to be politically correct by offering different weapons to the King's Men than to us serfs. (Colt is a notorious example.)
So, if it's possible to get an 870 with all the goodies on it for a reasonable price, that seems like a good bet. Otherwise, it might be best to stick with a Mossberg 590. I dunno...this is something I'd like to find out more about as well.
2005-02-11 20:46 | User Profile
Angler,
The 870 designation covers a few different guns. The [I]entry[/I] looks good to me. If I can get it in California.
Remington 870entry [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/bardamu/rem870entry.jpg[/IMG]
Rem. 870combo [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/bardamu/rem870combo.jpg[/IMG]
Rem870 [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/bardamu/rem870.jpg[/IMG]
2005-02-11 20:57 | User Profile
Bardamu,
So long as the barrel's over 18" you can get pretty much anything you want on a pump-gun. The entry looks a little shorter than that, so probably not, but you should be able to find that configuration, but with an 18" tube somewhere.
The "Law Enforcement Accessories" bit might be about extended magazine tubes, as it's about the only thing I can think of that's likely to be un-PC, though I guess it could have something to do with light mounts/laser, etc.
The Wilson scatterguns do indeed look pretty, but there are quite a few other thing I can think of to spend $1K on!
The stainless Winchester 1300 Marine Magnum's not a bad choice either.
2005-02-11 21:12 | User Profile
Hmmm...the entry model in that pic on top looks like it has a 14" barrel (NFA). If you can get that with an 18" barrel, though, that'd probably be ideal. And that should be legal in California.
It's ironic that the 12-ga shotgun is always the last thing to be banned by politicians in every region, considering how deadly it is:
The shotgun is the ne plus ultra of manstoppers. No other weapon will put a man down as reliably as a shotgun, and no other weapon is as likely to hit your opponent as a shotgun filled with buckshot. No doubt you have heard a lot of nonsense about the lethality of "assault rifles" and "Uzi sub-machine guns" and the like. The fact is that the shotgun is by far the deadliest and most effective firearm for short-range personal defense. For example: an Uzi or Heckler & Koch sub-machine gun has about 340 ft-lbs. of impact energy - a 12 gauge shotgun has 2500 to 3100 ft-lbs. of impact energy, and it is a heck of a lot easier to hit your target with a shotgun than a sub-machine gun.
The shotgun is not a magic weapon that will slay all foes, but it is simply the most effective man-stopping firearm yet devised. I invoke the Ascended Master, Massad Ayoob: "It is perhaps the most efficient close-range killing machine in the world's arsenal of small arms." [url]http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm[/url]
2005-02-13 03:08 | User Profile
Any thought on the Mossberg 500
You can pick one up for $215.18 at walmart.
Mossberg 500 12/24 $215.18 [url]http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product_id=3163657[/url]
Some links: Ithaca model 37 (USA) [url]http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh22-e.htm[/url]
Mossberg model 500 (USA) [url]http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh03-e.htm[/url]
Remington 870 shotgun (USA) [url]http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh17-e.htm[/url]
Winchester 1300 Marines (USA) [url]http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh05-e.htm[/url]
Remington 11-87 (USA) [url]http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh24-e.htm[/url]
How about the a 12 Gauge Kalashnikov?
Saiga 12 (Russia) [url]http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh07-e.htm[/url]
2005-02-13 04:33 | User Profile
I bought one from a friend of mine for $100.00 and it has front and rear pistol grip, I like it.
2005-02-13 05:44 | User Profile
The best home defense shotgun is rather simple. Go out and buy a youth 20, 16, or 12 gauge. Saw it off, and leave the stock because trust me, shooting 12 gauge buckshot with a pistol grip can hurt your wrist. I have many rifles and pistols but I've never really been a big shotgun fan because to me they are all the same.
2005-02-14 03:11 | User Profile
The Ithaca Model 37 has a MSRP of $812!
Ithaca Gun Home Page [url]http://www.ithacagun.com/[/url]
2005-02-14 19:43 | User Profile
I purchased my 37 for the reasons you mention, as I'm left-handed. Not to mention the price was right $150. It does have a nice feel, I like the feel of the weapon better than 870's I've handled. Thanx for all the input by members of this forum.:gunsmilie [QUOTE=Recluse]BTW, the 37's are good for left-handed shooters, because of the bottom ejection.[/QUOTE]
2005-02-15 02:30 | User Profile
From what I have read the Ithaca Model 37 is the best shotgun around, but the price is too hight unless you get a good deal on an old one. The bottom ejection and sold steel frame make it the strongest gun made. I am sure you could beat someone to death with it if you ran out of ammo, without hurting it.
2005-02-15 05:47 | User Profile
ZeaL? I never have any problems with my 20 gage with pistol grips, learn how to use it.......simple.
2005-02-15 06:23 | User Profile
Here's a thread on another forum comparing the Mossberg 590 to the Rem 870. The literacy level of many of the posters there makes even ebonics sound elegant, but their experiences are still worth considering. The general consensus seems to be that both of these shotguns are highly reliable and that you can't go wrong with either.
[url]http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=1700[/url]
On the other hand, the following article (which a poster linked to on the above thread) leans toward the Mossberg, largely for political reasons that I find very legitimate:
[url]http://members.tripod.com/~jth8260/870.html[/url]
2005-02-15 08:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MadScienceType]The stainless Winchester 1300 Marine Magnum's not a bad choice either.[/QUOTE] Yeah, the Winchester 1300 is another gun I'm reading very good things about now. Many seem to prefer it over both the Rem 870 and the Mossberg 590.
Choices, choices....
2005-02-15 17:07 | User Profile
Yeah, the Winchester 1300 is another gun I'm reading very good things about now. Many seem to prefer it over both the Rem 870 and the Mossberg 590.
Yeah, I have the base-model 1300 Defender and I like it very much. It'll eat anything I feed it and with slugs you can pop gallon jugs of water at 100 yards, provided you've got a good rest. Dual action bars like the others and it costs about $200 (at least a few years ago). The only thing is, there aren't as many accessories for it like the more-common 870, but that's largely a matter of taste, since the base model is fine for around-the-house work, though a flashlight mount and sidesaddle shotshell carrier would be nice (and those are available for it).
The stainless Marine I recommend simply for its corrosion resistance, but that costs about a hundred bucks more and it's shiny, which a I guess you could take care of with some flat black spray paint if you don't have any problems with doing something like that. Still, the base blued finish is pretty durable by itself.
P.S. Sorry, I got it backwards. The 870 comes as a Marine Magnum, while the equivalent 1300 is called the Coastal Marine. The points remain the same, though. Oh, and the 1300 has an aluminum receiver, but if that's giving you pause, I haven't had any trouble with mine, though if you're a guy who feels more secure with a steel receiver, then I guess it's either the 870 or 500/590.
2005-02-16 05:20 | User Profile
Thanks for the info, MST.
I do have another question about the 1300, as I'm really starting to lean toward that one. Is it possible to ditch the fiber optic bead-type sight it comes with and easily install some ghost-ring sights? Would I have to drill some holes or take it to a smith to do that?
2005-02-16 16:44 | User Profile
Not sure, Angler.
On first thought, I would say a 'smith, but that depends on what's already on the receiver. On mine, there's just a gold front bead and nothing else, so I would have to cut into the receiver fresh. If there are already mounting holes for some kind of rear sight, then you might not. Looking at the webpage, it seems the receiver isn't drilled at all, so I would recommend a 'smith. You could probably do it with a decent drill press if you've got one. The way I see it, some decent ghost-rings are going to cost you a fair amount, so why not spend the extra $30-40 to make sure they're on right and tight. I can't seem to find any ghost ring sights for the 1300, but you might have better luck.
Sorry this isn't more helpful.
[url]http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=512&type_id=104&cat=012C[/url]
Hoo! Prices have gone up. $341 for the base model and $524 for the base stainless. Mine's the no-frills one but with a wood stock and no fiber-optic doohickey, which I guess they don't make any more.
Here's a link to a stainless 1300 for $499.
[url]http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976417064.htm[/url]
2005-02-18 08:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MadScienceType]Not sure, Angler.
On first thought, I would say a 'smith, but that depends on what's already on the receiver. On mine, there's just a gold front bead and nothing else, so I would have to cut into the receiver fresh. If there are already mounting holes for some kind of rear sight, then you might not. Looking at the webpage, it seems the receiver isn't drilled at all, so I would recommend a 'smith. You could probably do it with a decent drill press if you've got one. The way I see it, some decent ghost-rings are going to cost you a fair amount, so why not spend the extra $30-40 to make sure they're on right and tight. I can't seem to find any ghost ring sights for the 1300, but you might have better luck.
Sorry this isn't more helpful.
[url]http://www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=512&type_id=104&cat=012C[/url]
Hoo! Prices have gone up. $341 for the base model and $524 for the base stainless. Mine's the no-frills one but with a wood stock and no fiber-optic doohickey, which I guess they don't make any more.
Here's a link to a stainless 1300 for $499.
[url]http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976417064.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
No need to apologize, your info is definitely appreciated.
I do think you're right about getting a smith to install the ghost rings if I decide to get some -- I'm not one who's willing to risk drilling bad holes in a brand-new gun. And who knows? -- maybe the fiber-optic bead will be sufficient once I try aiming with it.
Thanks again.... :thumbsup:
2005-02-18 17:47 | User Profile
maybe the fiber-optic bead will be sufficient once I try aiming with it.
I think you'll find it works. At scattergun range, the gold bead works fine for me. While there is no rear sight, as such, there is a flat, narrow spot on the reciever that serves the same function. As I mentioned, you can hit milk jugs at 100 yds with it from a rest, so the alignment isn't a problem overall. I wouldn't mind a nice ghost-ring setup, but I think on an 18" barreled-scattergun, it might be somewhat wasted. I mean, if you need to make aimed shots with it beyond 20-30 yards, you've brought the wrong weapon to the fight, 'twould seem.
2005-06-30 02:58 | User Profile
Does anyone have an opinion on this shotgun?: [url="http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm"]http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm[/url]
I currently have a Winchester 20 guage. I saw this and thought it looked nice and compact. However, I'm not too sure about the recoil.
2005-06-30 04:48 | User Profile
[img]http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/ithaca37hs.jpg[/img][img]http://www.mst2-vietnam.info/images/stonerjpg/HS-M_37.jpg[/img]
The Ithaca model 37 shotgun is one of the oldest pump action shotguns still in production. It was introduced in the 1937, and was based on the design patented by John M. Browning in 1915 and improved by Harry Howland of Ithaca Gun Co in 1931. Originally Browning sold his design to the Remington Arms Co, but later Ithaca Gun Company bought this design from Remington and began to build its own shotguns. Model 37 is known for its light weight and ambidextrous handling, thanks to Browning's patented bottom ejection feature. It is available in numerous versions and in various calibers, but for police, security and defense use most suitable are 12 gauge versions. Current production model 37 "Homeland Security" is intended for civilian self-defense use, and also can be used as a police weapon. Special, more compact version was developed especially for police use and is known as Model 37 "Stakeout". This gun features a shorter barrel and a pistol grip instead of more common butt. Model 37 was widely used by various police departments and security units in the USA, and still popular enough.
Simplicity: the Model 37 has the fewest parts of any pump shotgun. Reliability: the gun is easily used by right or left handed shooters because, unlike other pump shotguns, it loads and ejects through the bottom of the gun. The double-fingered shell carrier provides positive control of the round, from magazine to chamber. The barrel is attached to the receiver by an interrupted thread. It is easily removed for cleaning by unscrewing the knurled plug on the end of the magazine tube, turning it 90 degrees, and pulling it off the receiver.
2005-07-01 14:06 | User Profile
BlueBonnet,
I do not think NFA weapons are worth the trouble. And the recoil would be real bad. And it is only a 3 shot gun and $675. A good double barrel might do just as well at that point.
[QUOTE]The SUPER-SHORTY is based on a Mossberg Maverick (also available on 500 or 590 at additional cost) 12-gauge shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip. Because of this, the SUPER-SHORTY is considered an AOW (Any Other Weapon) and can be transferred with a $5 stamp! The gun holds two 2-3/4" or 3" shells in the magazine, plus one in the chamber. The 16.5" overall length, 6.5" barrel and spring-locked foregrip, which pivots out of the way when not in use, make for a very compact package. As far as we know, this is the shortest 12-gauge pump shotgun available.
Price: $675. [/QUOTE]
You can get plain Mossberg 500 for $215.18 at walmart
If you want a hand shotgun you might think about the Thunder Five. It is a non NFA weapon.
Thunder Five = 5-Shot Revolver .410 $495.00 [url]http://www.thunder5.com/[/url]
2005-07-02 04:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]BlueBonnet, I do not think NFA weapons are worth the trouble. And the recoil would be real bad. And it is only a 3 shot gun and $675. A good double barrel might do just as well at that point. You can get plain Mossberg 500 for $215.18 at walmart If you want a hand shotgun you might think about the Thunder Five. It is a non NFA weapon. Thunder Five = 5-Shot Revolver .410 $495.00 [url="http://www.thunder5.com/"]http://www.thunder5.com/[/url][/QUOTE] Thanks Faust. That revolver looks like it would put me on my a**. I guess I'll stick with the Mossberg.