← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Faust

Christian Zionists and Neocons: A Heavenly Marriage

Thread ID: 16651 | Posts: 40 | Started: 2005-02-08

Wayback Archive

Faust [OP]

2005-02-08 04:36 | User Profile

Title: Christian Zionists and Neocons: A Heavenly Marriage Source: Open Democracy URL Source: [url]http://www.opendemocracy.net/themes/article-2-2329.jsp[/url] Published: Feb 3, 2005 Author: Paul Rogers Post Date: 2005-02-07 20:09:16 by Brian S

A fusion of religious zealotry, political dogma and anti-Islamism is becoming a potent and underestimated force in United States security policy.

The effects of the Iraq war are reverberating across the United States defence establishment. One of its consequences is a major rethink of military budget planning, including a decision to postpone some high-tech projects in favour of increasing the size and capability of the US army (see “Insurgents prevail”, 6 January 2005). It is becoming clear that this is happening in the contest of increasing civilian influence over defence planning within the Pentagon, as well as a more powerful role for the Pentagon itself within the George W Bush administration.

US military leaders, according to a well-informed source,

“are worried the upcoming Quadrennial Defense Review (QDR) is being hijacked by a small cadre of civilians, and they believe they will be kept out of the loop, just as they were when budget cuts were decided only a few weeks ago”

For more information, see David Fulghum and Robert Wall, “Style Change”, Aviation Week, 24 January 2005 (subscription only). The key player in this “cadre” is probably Stephen Cambone, under-secretary of defence for intelligence. But the overall trend seems further evidence that Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz (the defense secretary and his deputy) are able to maintain much greater control of military force planning than their predecessors.

The senior military are naturally reluctant to cede the control of such planning to civilians. They also have a wider concern that the current hawkish security policy of the Bush administration, including its liking for pre-emption, simply doesn’t take military realities into account. A well-rehearsed example is the refusal of the civilian leadership in 2002-03 to listen to voices from within the Pentagon and the US Army War College about the likely consequences of regime termination in Iraq.

Many departments of the United States government – state, commerce, justice and the treasury, as well as agencies such as the CIA – have historically made a contribution to developing United States security policy, in a context where the Pentagon plays the major role. But in the post-9/11 era, as US military forces moved to the forefront of the US response, “national security” concerns have come to overshadow other influences in policy formulation. In particular, the administration has come to regard the intelligence agencies much more as arms of government policy than as providers of independent assessments. This has been encouraged by, and in turn enhanced, the influence within the administration of neo-conservative security ideologues who are determined to ensure that the dream of the New American Century becomes a reality.

Many commentators have concentrated on the increasing influence of this neo-conservative thinking, especially in the light of the convincing electoral victory of President Bush in November 2004. But a quite different source of influence on US foreign and security policy, often neglected or underestimated, is also becoming significant. This is the constituency known most commonly as the “Christian Zionists”, whose role was mentioned recently by those anonymous SWISH consultants in their recent report.

Towards the “end of days”

Christian Zionism, also known as dispensationalism or dispensation theology, has been around for over a century and a half but it has only acquired real political significance in the past decade. Its current importance stems from three factors: the voting power of a significant proportion of evangelical Christians, its visceral support for the state of Israel, and its links with neo-conservatism.

The essence of “dispensation theology”, allowing for internal variations, is that God has given a dispensation to the Jews to prepare the way for the Second Coming. The literal fulfilment of Old Testament promises to biblical Israel is approaching, an “end of days” that will involve a millennium of earthly rule centred on Jerusalem. Thus, the state of Israel is a fundamental part of God’s plan, and it is essential for it to survive and thrive.

Dispensationalists would argue that this has always been a core part of the Christian message, but most historians of theology trace the doctrine to the thoughts and preachings of John Nelson Darby (1800-82), a minister of the Plymouth Brethren active in promoting it in the 1820s. It attracted particular attention in the United States as part of the Biblical Conference Movement in the 1870s, and flourished in the first decades of the 20th century.

The evangelist Cyrus Scofield was central to this process. His Scofield Reference Bible (1909) was the first book published by the new US offices of the Oxford University Press. Its prolific theological interpretations helped make it perhaps the most renowned version of the bible in North American evangelism.

Michael Vlach describes how many Bible schools teaching dispensationalism were formed in the 1920s, the most significant being the Dallas Theological Seminary in 1924. The Scofield Bible became a standard source in these institutions, helping the phenomenon of “Christian Zionism” to lay down firm roots in the inter-war years.

Many dispensationalists saw the establishment of Israel in 1948 as the beginning of a fulfilment of biblical prophecies. Later moments in the country’s history – especially the six-day war in 1967 and the election of Ronald Reagan in 1980 – gave a further impetus to the idea.

The Bill Clinton years (1993-2000) were more difficult for dispensationalists, partly because they followed the preacher scandals of the late 1980s, and because Clinton was more favourable to the more secular elements of the Israeli political system, not least with its Labour Party. But during his presidency, the main Israel lobbies in Washington – particularly the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac) – sought to build close links with the Christian Zionists. In this, Aipac and similar organisations were recognising the increasing demographic and political power of the Christian Zionists, and also securing a wider base of support at a time when American Jewish communities were scarred by deep divisions that threatened to reduce support for Israel.

A recent, succinct history of Christian Zionism by Donald Wagner of Chicago’s North Park University tracks the remarkable coming together of the movement with neo-conservatism during the George W Bush era, and quotes the leading evangelical preacher Jerry Falwell: “The Bible Belt is Israel’s safety net in the United States.”

Wagner remarks:

“By 2000, a shift had taken place in the Republican Party. It began embracing the doctrines of neoconservative ideologues who advocated US unilateralism and favored military solutions over diplomacy. The more aggressive approach was put into action after Sept. 11, and to no one’s surprise, Israel’s war against the Palestinians and its other enemies was soon linked to the US ‘war on terrorism’.”

A number of groups now connect evangelical Christian churches in the United States with support for Israel, many of them making specific reference to Jerusalem. Stand for Israel, for example, talks of the need “to mobilise Christians and people of faith to support the State of Israel…” and declares on its home page that “Anti-Israel = Anti-Zionism = Anti-Semitism”.

A new dispensation

This growth in Christian Zionism in recent years forms just one part of the wider increase in the conservative evangelism movement, the fastest-growing sector within American Christian churches. Donald Wagner estimates that it numbers 100-130 million adherents (the population of the United States is 293 million). The proportion of Christian Zionists among this figure is harder to assess, but perhaps 20-25% of US evangelicals could be described as sympathetic to the doctrine’s fundamentalist views. At the same time, larger numbers may be inclined to support Israel because of broader dispensationalist sympathies; and the fact that evangelical Christians seem particularly disposed to vote, and to be more likely to support the Republican Party, has allowed them to secure a power even greater than their numbers.

The political consequence is that both Israel and US neo-conservatives have come to benefit from ideological and electoral support from an unexpected and growing source. This has wider strategic implications too: for many adherents seriously believe that we may be approaching the end of the world, that salvation can arrive only through a Christian message linked decisively to the success of the state of Israel, and that Islam is necessarily a false faith that must be combated.

The fusion of religion and politics that Christian Zionism represents remains a largely unrecognised force in American politics. Its alliance with neo-conservatism may yet do much to influence the middle-east policies of the second administration of the born-again George W Bush.

Post Comment

[url]http://216.133.76.156/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=318&Disp=0[/url]

Blond Knight

2005-02-08 05:23 | User Profile

Faust,

Good article. It never ceases to amaze me, the outright stubborn refusal of all too many dispensational types to even consider, for one moment, that they could be barking up the wrong tree, so to speak, in regard to their blind worship of these antiChrists.

To paraphrase an old saying,"You can lead a Christian Zionist to the truth, but you can not make him think."

Sertorius

2005-02-08 05:36 | User Profile

[QUOTE]The key player in this “cadre” is probably Stephen Cambone, under-secretary of defence for intelligence.[/QUOTE]

Faust,

This doesn't sound right. Cambone is Assistance Secretary for Intelligence. I don't think that he would be involved in procurement. Beside, he would be too busy "consulting" with the Israelis on "latest techniques to fight terrorism." (Limbaugh quote) That is to say latest torture methods.

But the overall trend seems further evidence that Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz (the defense secretary and his deputy) are able to maintain much greater control of military force planning than their predecessors.[/QUOTE]

I think Rumsfeld and a think tank type named Andrew Marshall and his "Revolution in Military Affairs", i.e., more expensive high tech gee whiz stuff, are the main driving force here.

[QUOTE]“The Bible Belt is Israel’s safety net in the United States.”[/QUOTE]

It is this sort of thinking that can get this country destroyed. The people who believe this sort of foolishness are engaged in cult like behavior. These Armageddonists are no only doing everything to make this a self fulfilling prophecy, but aren't that far removed from the Islamists and Zionists in their thinking.

vytis

2005-02-08 14:31 | User Profile

'Christian Zionist'...Talk about your basic oxymoron :yawn:

Sertorius

2005-02-08 15:26 | User Profile

No, just moron!

Phantasm

2005-02-12 07:47 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Faust]... A new dispensation

This growth in Christian Zionism in recent years forms just one part of the wider increase in the conservative evangelism movement, the fastest-growing sector within American Christian churches. ... This has wider strategic implications too: for many adherents seriously believe that we may be approaching the end of the world, that salvation can arrive only through a Christian message linked decisively to the success of the state of Israel, and that Islam is necessarily a false faith that must be combated. ...[/QUOTE] This issue is dividing the Christian community across the nation right now. My own family members and I have been at each other's throats over this issue for the last couple of years. Traditional Christians like myself are horrified at the cultist trend our faith has taken. To make matters worse... we are limited in what we can do about this simply because the “Armageddonists” are extremely bigoted. The only thing we can really do is wait for these wackos to have a “significant emotional experience...” and then use the opportunity to “educate” them.

:wallbash:

Texas Dissident

2005-02-12 08:46 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Phantasm]This issue is dividing the Christian community across the nation right now. My own family members and I have been at each other's throats over this issue for the last couple of years. Traditional Christians like myself are horrified at the cultist trend our faith has taken. To make matters worse... we are limited in what we can do about this simply because the “Armageddonists” are extremely bigoted.[/QUOTE]

I use the term 'stiff-necked', but yes, the pre-mil dispies are virulent in defending their eschatology against any and all counter-views. The really tragic factor is that due to recent events in the middle east coupled with the popularity of the 'Left Behind' series, this particular eschatological doctrine has seemingly come to dominate almost every facet of evangelical positioning in our present-day culture and body politic. The end result we are seeing is what should be an in-house debate amongst the 'catholic' church has turned into a polarizing and bitter fight complete with charges and counter-charges of heresy and outright denounciations. It is extremely unfortunate and like yourself, my own family has not been exempted from the spirited debate either. Like most close-minded, rabid fundamentalists of any stripe, it seems the more one tries to present information or understanding of an eschatology that is more historical to the Christian Church, and indeed just flat-out makes more sense (amillennialism), the more determined and stiff-necked the pre-mil dispies become while digging even further into their own trenches.

In the end I think the best prescription is the one that is always best for all things. That is, know what you believe and why you believe it and pray hard for reformation and revival. We know God is control and His will will be done. That is ultimately the only assurance we have while we still wait for the unseen things we hope for.

Angler

2005-02-12 11:26 | User Profile

Zionist influence needs to be purged from US policy. For starters, all lobbies on behalf of foreign nations should be banned. There is no reason for such lobbies to exist apart from engaging in "espionage-lite" -- the subversive influence of the US government for the benefit of foreign powers. (The only foreign lobbies I can think of offhand are Israeli, but there may be others. Of course it's the Israeli lobbies that I'm concerned about.)

Sertorius

2005-02-12 11:38 | User Profile

Angler,

Here's two more I can add. The Hindu lobby (very active in Atlanta) and the Mexican lobby. Certain leaders of the Hindu lobby admit they have learned their tricks from the Jews. The Mexican lobby you know very well.

albion

2005-02-12 13:07 | User Profile

[img]http://www.rense.com/1.imagesG/bushdoesnt.jpg[/img] from [url="http://www.rense.com"]www.rense.com[/url]

Ponce

2005-02-12 16:17 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Angler]Zionist influence needs to be purged from US policy. For starters, all lobbies on behalf of foreign nations should be banned. There is no reason for such lobbies to exist apart from engaging in "espionage-lite" -- the subversive influence of the US government for the benefit of foreign powers. (The only foreign lobbies I can think of offhand are Israeli, but there may be others. Of course it's the Israeli lobbies that I'm concerned about.)[/QUOTE]

I believe that the lobbiets for the state of Israel are the only ones that are not registered as "agents for a foreign nation".

For the record there are 2,200 of them but off the record the majority of Jew is a lobbiest for the state of Israel.

Jews living outside of the state of Israel are supposed to help Israelis who come into their country in order to pull an operation and are called "cousins".

Quantrill

2005-02-12 17:02 | User Profile

Albion, That picture is classic. :thumbsup:

Robert

2005-02-13 17:11 | User Profile

I, too, find these developments disturbing. But I would like to make a point which I did once before in another thread. And that is; not all pre-millennialists are dispensationalists. A serious case can be made that amillennialism began largely with Augustine. Whereas, historic pre-millenialism, I believe, is more in line with the plain meaning of the Biblical text, and represents the teaching of the Apostles.

But back to the main point; I am beginning to prefer the term of "Judeochristians" for the ultra-dispensationalists. They have become so rabid in their support of Jews and Israel, that they have left their first love, which is Christ. I have some neighbors who believe that all Jews automatically go to heaven simply because they are Jews. It does not matter for my neighbors that Jews spit on the Cross of Christ. They are not concerned that Israel is virulently anti-Christian, and that the Zionists view them as nothing more than "useful idiots".

Judeochristianity is rank heresy. Between judeochristianity and the emasculation of once-Christian churches by the likes of Rick Warren, Joel Osteen and Bill Hybels, Satan is setting us up.

Like the dispensationialists, I too believe that we may be in the end times. But the dispensationialists may very well be manipulated into being the Antichrist's most vocal supporters, given that the Antichrist will most likely be a Jew.

vytis

2005-02-13 17:42 | User Profile

Judeo-Christianity is rank heresy...It's also an impossibility.

Excellent post Robert. Thanks! :thumbsup:

'Wer kennt den Jude kennt den Teufel'

SCRIPTURESEZ

2005-02-13 18:33 | User Profile

You do not know the Scriptures. Jesus is a Jew.

Ask Jesus and he will tell you.

Robert

2005-02-13 20:21 | User Profile

Scripturesez, I read some earlier exchanges in which Quantrill answered your objections far more ably than I can. But I would like to reiterate a couple of points. Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. Salvation is found in Him and Him only. We can do nothing to merit salvation. The Law does not save us, it only condemns us. The Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled the Law by paying every debt that we owe to it. If we trust in Jesus, we now belong to Him, and Him alone.

The Law and the OT pointed to Jesus, and are fulfilled in Him. Jesus is the Hero of Scripture. All Scripture, OT and NT, revolves around Him. The Jews were chosen as the people among whom Jesus would be born. The Jews rejected Him and were cast aside. The Kingdom was then offered to those Gentiles who would believe.

So Scripturesez, do you worship Jesus or the Jews? Do you accept salvation from the Lord Jesus Christ, or are you still trying to earn it under the Law? Do you bow the knee to Jesus, and confess Him as Lord, Savior and God Almighty?

Phantasm

2005-02-14 19:07 | User Profile

[QUOTE=SCRIPTURESEZ]You do not know the Scriptures. Jesus is a Jew.

Ask Jesus and he will tell you.[/QUOTE] Are you kidding? Did Jesus promote the destruction of the gentiles? NO! Did Jesus change money in the temple? NO! Maybe that is why the Jews demanded that the Romans crucify him... HUH?

You should read the Book Of John, Chapter 8, Verses 32 through 47... where our Lord Jesus Christ calls the Jews the "children of Satan." Better yet... read what the Talmud says! The Talmud states that our Lord Jesus Christ “fornicated with his jackass.” [Sanhedrin 105a-b] It also states that our Lord is being “punished in boiling hot semen.” [57a Gittin]

Save your Jew propaganda for mindless airheads like my sister.

:angry:

SCRIPTURESEZ

2005-02-15 22:35 | User Profile

Jesus is Jewish

Hebrews 7:

¹¹If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come–one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? ¹²For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. ¹³He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. [color=red]¹⁴For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah[/color], and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. ¹⁵And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, ¹⁶one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. ¹⁷For it is declared: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”^{[[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=7&version=31#fen-NIV-30066a"][color=#800080]a[/color][/url]]}

Petr

2005-02-15 23:46 | User Profile

[I][B] - "Jesus is Jewish"[/B][/I]

And Talmudic Pharisees are not:

[COLOR=Blue][B][U]Revelation 3:9[/U]: Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, [I]which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie[/I]; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

[U]Revelation 2:9[/U]: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of [I]them which say they are Jews, and are not[/I], but are the synagogue of Satan. [/B] [/COLOR]

How do you interpret these verses, Scripturesez?

Petr

Phantasm

2005-02-16 05:49 | User Profile

[QUOTE=SCRIPTURESEZ]Jesus is Jewish

Hebrews 7: ... [color=red]For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah[/color] ...[/QUOTE] Excellent side-step SCRIPTURESEZ !

Just because he is "descended from Judah" does NOT make him a Jew.

And while we're in Hebrews... "...The days are coming, says the Lord, when I will draw up a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. It will not be like the covenant that I made with their ancestors on the day I took them by the hand and led them out of Egypt. They were not faithful to the covenant I made with them, and so I paid no attention to them. ..." [Hebrews Chapter 8, Verses 8 & 9]

"By speaking of a new covenant, God has made the first one old; and anything that becomes old and worn out will soon disappear." [Hebrews Chapter 8, Verse 13]

:starwars:

Phantasm

2005-02-16 05:59 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Robert]... So Scripturesez, do you worship Jesus or the Jews? Do you accept salvation from the Lord Jesus Christ, or are you still trying to earn it under the Law? Do you bow the knee to Jesus, and confess Him as Lord, Savior and God Almighty?[/QUOTE] Excellent question Robert! SCRIPTURESEZ sounds very much like the "born agains" that surrounded my family's dinner table at Christmas... until I stopped showing-up.

I think I know where SCRIPTURESEZ places his loyalties...

:caiphas:

Free The Truth

2005-02-16 10:27 | User Profile

[QUOTE=SCRIPTURESEZ]Jesus is Jewish

Hebrews 7:

¹¹If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come–one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? ¹²For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. ¹³He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. [color=red]¹⁴For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah[/color], and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. ¹⁵And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, ¹⁶one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. ¹⁷For it is declared: “You are a priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.”^{[[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=65&chapter=7&version=31#fen-NIV-30066a"][color=#800080]a[/color][/url]]}[/QUOTE] Yeah Jesus/Yeshua was a Judaite, but he was not a Jew for a Jew is a counterfeit people. The Mask of Edom will be removed though

Free The Truth

2005-02-16 10:32 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Phantasm]Are you kidding? Did Jesus promote the destruction of the gentiles? NO! Did Jesus change money in the temple? NO! Maybe that is why the Jews demanded that the Romans crucify him... HUH?

You should read the Book Of John, Chapter 8, Verses 32 through 47... where our Lord Jesus Christ calls the Jews the "children of Satan." Better yet... read what the Talmud says! The Talmud states that our Lord Jesus Christ “fornicated with his jackass.” [Sanhedrin 105a-b] It also states that our Lord is being “punished in boiling hot semen.” [57a Gittin]

Save your Jew propaganda for mindless airheads like my sister.

:angry:[/QUOTE] Good work mate, top shop :thumbsup:

Free The Truth

2005-02-17 10:07 | User Profile

[url="http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesusjew.htm"][size=2]http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesusjew.htm[/size][/url]

[font=Times New Roman][color=#ff0000][u]JESUS WAS NOT A Jew[/u][/color][/font]

[center][font=Arial][color=#000000]**Benjamin H. Freedman, Jewish Historian - Researcher - Scholar. From "Common Sense", p. 2-1-53 and 5-1-59 ** [/center] "Christians have been duped by the unholiest hoax in all history, by so-called Jews. This is considered their most effective weapon."

"This 'big lie' technique is brainwashing United States Christians into believing that Jesus Christ was "King of the Jews", in the sense that so-called 'Jews' today call themselves 'Jews'. [u]This reference was first made in English translations of the Old and New Testaments, centuries before the so-called Jews highjacked the word 'Jew' in the 18th A.D. century to palm themselves off on the Christian world as having a kinship with Jesus Christ.[/u] This alleged kinship comes from the myth of their common ancestry with the so-called 'Jews' of the Holy Land in the Old Testament history, a fiction based on fable."

"American Christians little suspect they are being brainwashed twenty-four hours of every day over television and radio, by newspapers and magazines, by motion pictures and plays, by books, by political leaders in office and seeking office, by religious leaders in their pulpits and outside their churches, by leaders in the field of education inside and outside their cirricular activities, and by all leaders in business, professions and finance, whose economic security demands that they curry the favor of so-called "Jews" of historic Khazar ancestry. Unsuspecting Christians are subjected to this barrage from sources they have little reason to suspect. [u]Incontestable facts supply the unchallengeable proof of the historic accuracy that so-called "Jews" throughout the world today of eastern European origin are unquestionably the historic descendants of the Khazars, a pagan Turko-Finn ancient Mongoloid nation deep in the heart of Asia, according to history, who battled their way in bloody wars about the 1st century B.C. into eastern Europe where they set up their Khazar kingdom.[/u] For some mysterious reason the history of the Khazar kingdom is conspicuous by its absence from history courses in the schools and colleges.

"The historic existence of the Khazar kingdom of so-called "Jews", their rise and fall, the permanent disappearance of the Khazar kingdom as a nation from the map of Europe, and how King Bulan and the Khazar nation in about 740 A.D. became so-called "Jews" by conversion, were concealed from American Christians by censorship imposed by so-called "Jews", of historic Khazar ancestry, upon all U.S.A. media of mass communications directed by them. Then in 1945 this author gave nation-wide publicity to his many years intensive research into the "facts of life" concerning Khazars. The disclosures were sensational and very effective but apparently angered so-called "Jews" who have continued to vent their spleen upon this author since then solely for that reason. Since 1946 they have conducted a vicious smear campaign against him, seeking thus to further conceal these facts, for obvious reasons. What have they to fear from the truth?

[u]"In an original 1903 edition of the Jewish Encyclopedia in New York's Public Library, and in the Library of Congress, Volume IV, pages 1 to 5 inclusive, appears a most comprehensive history of the Khazars. Also in the New York Public Library are 327 books by the world's greatest historians and other sources of reference, in addition to the Jewish Encyclopedia, dealing with Khazar history, and written between the 3rd A.D. and 20th centuries by contemporaries of the Khazars and by modern historians on that subject."[/u]

[u]Jesus was a 'Judean', not a Jew.[/u]

During His lifetime, no persons were described as "Jews" anywhere. That fact is supported by theology, history and science. When Jesus was in Judea, it was not the "homeland" of the ancestors of those who today style themselves "Jews". Their ancestors never set a foot in Judea. They existed at that time in Asia, their "homeland", and were known as Khazars. In none of the manuscripts of the original Old or New Testament was Jesus described or referred to as a "Jew". The term originated in the late eighteenth century as an abbreviation of the term Judean and refers to a resident of Judea without regard to race or religion, just as the term "Texan" signifies a person living in Texas.

In spite of the powerful propaganda effort of the so-called "Jews", they have been unable to prove in recorded history that there is one record, prior to that period, of a race religion or nationality, referred to as "Jew". The religious sect in Judea, in the time of Jesus, to which self-styled "Jews" today refer to as "Jews", were known as "Pharisees". "Judaism" today and "Pharisaism" in the time of Jesus are the same.

Jesus abhorred and denounced "Pharisaism"; hence the words, "Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites, Ye Serpents, Ye Generation of Vipers".[/color][/font]

Brooke

2005-02-17 16:40 | User Profile

They have become so rabid in their support of Jews and Israel, that they have left their first love, which is Christ. I have heard people say (with a straight face!) that Christian churches today aren't "jewish enough". Incredible.

Judeochristianity is rank heresy. I could not agree more. It is the "falling away".

Yeah Jesus/Yeshua was a Judaite, but he was not a Jew for a Jew is a counterfeit people. The Mask of Edom will be removed though Indeed. Matthew 10:26 Fear them not therefore: [u]for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known[/u].

Thanks, Free The Truth; you saved me the effort of posting that article! :thumbsup:

SCRIPTURESEZ

2005-02-18 00:06 | User Profile

[color=red]Jesus is a decendant of Judah[/color]

Hebrews 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

I[color=blue] am proving to the readers of the blog that Jesus did not do away with the Torah or the Law, not one Jot or title, but that our forefathers were under the custodianship of the law. [/color]

[color=blue]If you are saying that the law or Torah passed away or that it puts you in bondage or legalism or is Judaising, you are saying that there is something wrong with the Torah and the Lawgiver. [/color]

[color=blue]But that is not the case Scripture says that the new or renewed covenant was because of the fault in us.[/color]

Hebrews 8 ⁷For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

[color=red]⁸For finding fault with them[/color], he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

⁹Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

¹⁰For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

¹¹And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. ¹²For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

[color=blue]Remember the old covenant was the Torah (or the Law) written on stone but when Jesus came the new renewed covenant is the Torah or the law written on hearts of flesh, and since we are once again hearing from God, through Jesus he can tell us how to keep the Law perfectly. That is if you beleive that he lives in you (tabernacles) in you and you are a holy temple, then you have the teaching and instruction of God on your heart, if you will listen to him. There is no evidence presented here or in the Scriptures that tells us that Jesus did away with any of the law that commands us to to keep the Sabbaths. [/color]

[color=blue]In fact, if we read the Bible closely we see that the first church or ekklesia or assembly or day of assembly or called out ones started in the wilderness those people were from the house of Judah the Whole House of Israel, as this was before the split of Judah and Ephraim that was solidified by Solomons time. Jesus is described as the Angel of the Lord that is the Torah Giver and he is the Phropet like Moses. [/color]

Acts 7: 37³⁷“This is that Moses who told the Israelites, ‘God will send you a prophet like me from your own people.’^{[[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=acts%207&version=31#fen-NIV-27143h"][color=#800080]h[/color][/url]] 38}He was in the assembly in the desert, with the angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers; and he received living words to pass on to us.

³⁹“But our fathers refused to obey him. Instead, they rejected him and in their hearts turned back to Egypt. ⁴⁰They told Aaron, ‘Make us gods who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who led us out of Egypt–we don't know what has happened to him!’^{[[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=acts%207&version=31#fen-NIV-27146i"][color=#800080]i[/color][/url]] 41}That was the time they made an idol in the form of a calf. They brought sacrifices to it and held a celebration in honor of what their hands had made. ⁴²But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets: “ ‘Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings forty years in the desert, O house of Israel? ⁴³You have lifted up the shrine of Molech and the star of your god Rephan, the idols you made to worship. Therefore I will send you into exile’^{[[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=acts%207&version=31#fen-NIV-27149j"][color=#800080]j[/color][/url]]} beyond Babylon.

⁴⁴“Our forefathers had the tabernacle of the Testimony with them in the desert. It had been made as God directed Moses, according to the pattern he had seen. ⁴⁵Having received the tabernacle, our fathers under Joshua brought it with them when they took the land from the nations God drove out before them. It remained in the land until the time of David, ⁴⁶who enjoyed God's favor and asked that he might provide a dwelling place for the God of Jacob.^{[[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=acts%207&version=31#fen-NIV-27152k"][color=#800080]k[/color][/url]] 47}But it was Solomon who built the house for him.

⁴⁸“However, the Most High does not live in houses made by men. As the prophet says: ⁴⁹“ ‘Heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool. What kind of house will you build for me? says the Lord. Or where will my resting place be? ⁵⁰Has not my hand made all these things?’^{[[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=acts%207&version=31#fen-NIV-27156l"][color=#800080]l[/color][/url]] 51}“You stiffnecked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: You always resist the Holy Spirit! ⁵²Was there ever a prophet your fathers did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him– ⁵³you who have received the law that was put into effect through angels but have not obeyed it.”

[color=blue]So to be in this new or renewed covenant, one needs to be a member of either house, Judah or Israel (Ephraim) which equals the Whole House of Israel Or the whole house as in Acts 2. In other words you are going to be either a flesh and blood descendant of Judah. Or a flesh and blood or spiritual descendant of Ephraim to be grafted in. [/color]

[color=blue]Furthermore it appears that Sabbath keeping is a sign of the elect: [/color] color=blue[/color]

Exodus 31:12-14 [size=1]12[/size][size=2] And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, [/size][size=1]13[/size][size=2] Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. [/size][size=1]14[/size][size=2] Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. (KJV)[/size]

Exodus 13:9-16 [size=1]9 [/size][size=2]And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt. [/size][size=1]10 [/size][size=2]Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year. [/size][size=1]11 [/size][size=2]And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, as he sware unto thee and to thy fathers, and shall give it thee, [/size][size=1]12 [/size][size=2]That thou shalt set apart unto the LORD all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males shall be the LORD'S. [/size][size=1]13 [/size][size=2]And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem. [/size][size=1]14 [/size][size=2]And it shall be when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What is this? that thou shalt say unto him, By strength of hand the LORD brought us out from Egypt, from the house of bondage: [/size][size=1]15 [/size][size=2]And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem. [/size][size=1]16 [/size][size=2]And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt. (KJV)[/size]

[color=blue]So it appears that none of the Law has passed away, but it is taught to use correctly by the lawgiver himself Jesus. Jesus not only keeps the Law, but he intrepets to us at a higher standard, he raises the bar of perfection. We know as people we could not attain it but we can pursue it. [/color]

[color=blue]Jesus explains to us how we can love our neighbor as ourselves. [/color]

[color=blue]Many of you critics wonder if we can keep the Festivals with animal sacrifices, but we can't because there is no Holy and Pure temple now, because the Muslims are there. Paul tells us to give Him the sacrifice of praise, but we are to remember the Feasts of the Lord. [/color]

[color=blue]There are many other commands that one cannot do, for instance the commands only for the Levitical priesthood etc. By the way according to Ezekial, the Levitical priesthood returns, as the son of Levi sons of Zadok. [/color] [color=blue]That is why Jesus tells us to listen to his voice and obey. If you don't you won't be eathing chicken with cheese because you wouldn't want to boil a kid in his own milk of his mother. What I am saying is that Jesus who is the God of Compassion and Mercy would never make anyone get 2 sets of dishes on for meat and one for milk. Its okay by me if the pious person wants to do that so they can feel safe, but as for me I want to keep what the Scripture said as taught to me by Jesus than what the Rabbis said or church fathers.[/color]

[color=blue]The thing to remember is that the Feasts and sacrifices were only shadows of the good things the Lord has for us. The Levitical priesthood was only a shadow of the the Priesthood of the Order of Melech-Tzadik that was going on in heaven. [/color]

[color=blue]After all His (Jesus) sacrifices it seems we should at least consider that we should keep the Feasts in the right way and the right day, don't you thiink? [/color]

[color=blue]It sure beats dyeing easter eggs on the wrong day![/color]

[color=blue]Paul was keeping the feast of of unleavened bread and he is telling us that it is a teaching about sin. [/color]

[color=blue]I am not telling anyone to get into the legalism of today's Judaism or yesteryears for that matter, to put fences and fences around the law until it becomes a heavy burden no man can bear. I am thinking here of some one's quip directing me to go read the Talmud. Would that be now the Babylonian Talmud or the Jerusalem Talmud? There are many great teachings there, I know, wise sayings of Good and Kind and decent Rabbis and again, some that were not. But that can be said of any population of humans.[/color]

[color=blue]I know that God does not waste my time, nor yours. There is a reason that I stumbled on this website. Maybe just to be the only dissenter among the originals, a very high honor indeed.[/color]

[color=blue]But you can see by now that I love the Lord and I know what I am talking about. I wonder if you wonder who I am and how long I have been a believer and so on. The answer would surprise many. But I will keep that to myself until we meet again. [/color]

[color=blue]But after all is said and done, I don't beleive that any person who says he or she worships Christ and then has an absolute vomit of hatred come out of him should continue to be that way or much less write it down.[/color]

[color=blue]It tells me for certain that person does not have the Fruit of the Spirit which is joy peace love brotherly charity and so on. But has some other spirit.[/color]

[color=blue]I noticed another thing while visiting you here, many many posts are tracking stories of some awesome evil fear or another. And yet far be it from the Lord to treat the Righteous and the Wicked alike! I even wrote one day I was living in Psalm 91 and boy did I get a post that totally misread what I was saying. Apparently that person does not think King David knew too much.[/color]

[color=blue]But the writers of Gods word also have told us one thing about the Jews that have not accepted the Lord or appeared to but that He himself has hardened their hearts but they will be grafted back onto the vine.[/color]

Romans 11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. ¹²But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!

¹³I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry ¹⁴in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. ¹⁵For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? ¹⁶If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

¹⁷If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, ¹⁸do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. ¹⁹You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” ²⁰Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. ²¹For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

²²Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. ²³And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. ²⁴After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! ²⁵I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. ²⁶And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; ** he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. ²⁷And this is^{[[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=romans%2011&version=31#fen-NIV-28222f"][color=#800080]f[/color][/url]]} my covenant with them ** **when I take away their sins.”^{[[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=romans%2011&version=31#fen-NIV-28222g"][color=#800080]g[/color][/url]]} **

²⁸As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, ²⁹for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. ³⁰Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, ³¹so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now^{[[url="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/index.php?search=romans%2011&version=31#fen-NIV-28226h"][color=#800080]h[/color][/url]]} receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. ³²For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Phantasm

2005-02-18 22:40 | User Profile

[QUOTE=SCRIPTURESEZ]... YOU CAN BELEIVE SCRIPTURE OR BELIEVE MAN SO ASK JESUS ...[/QUOTE] You must be going to the same church my sister attends. Either that... or you and I are talking about two different types of Jews. You are obviously speaking of the Jews that existed two thousand years ago... and even they had not adhered to the Covenant.

Allow me to walk you through this slowly SCRIPTURESEZ... Race is only one characteristic of what a Jew is. This has been the case since the sixth or seventh century. The Jews are a nation... or tribe if you will. This tribe is characterized by race, religion, culture and language. Most members of this tribe only possess some of the given characteristics of the tribe. However, they are all united as a nation by their Talmud... even though the nation is not characterized by geographic territory. This nation is called the "State Of All Juden."

Welcome to the twenty first century SCRIPTURESEZ...

:smoke:

Phantasm

2005-02-18 22:50 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Free The Truth] ... [font=Times New Roman][color=#ff0000][u]JESUS WAS NOT A Jew[/u][/color][/font]

[Benjamin H. Freedman] In spite of the powerful propaganda effort of the so-called "Jews", they have been unable to prove in recorded history that there is one record, prior to that period, of a race religion or nationality, referred to as "Jew". The religious sect in Judea, in the time of Jesus, to which self-styled "Jews" today refer to as "Jews", were known as "Pharisees". "Judaism" today and "Pharisaism" in the time of Jesus are the same.

Jesus abhorred and denounced "Pharisaism"; hence the words, "Woe unto you Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites, Ye Serpents, Ye Generation of Vipers".[/QUOTE] Thanks Brother.

:thumbsup:

Free The Truth

2005-02-18 23:52 | User Profile

SCRIPTURESEZ, you have it all wrong. The term Jew and Judah do not mean the same thing. A Jew (modern Jewry) is made up of mainly Khazar stock (non Israelites for those of you who don't know)

They are called by many who know about their lies - the "Thirteenth Tribe"

Info can be found here [url="http://churchoftrueisrael.com/13th-tribe/"]http://churchoftrueisrael.com/13th-tribe/[/url] - it is about the book "The Thirteenth Tribe, The Khazar Empire and it's Heritage" by [size=5][size=2]Arthur Koestler a famed Jewish writer. Try and get your hands on this book - Alibris would be your best bet.[/size][/size]

Try also to get the book "The Mask of Edom, an Examination of Jewish Nationlism" by WM. Norman Saxon

[size=5][size=2]Many others have come out to speak about the Khazars in modern Jewry. Nathan M. Pollock was one (a Khazar Jew himself) more info on his story can be found [url="http://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/A1.html"]http://www.ihr.org/books/hoggan/A1.html[/url][/size][/size]

Let me finish by stating that "Jew", "Israelite", and "Judaite" are NOT the same thing. A Judaite could be an Israelite, but an Israelite doesn't have to be a Judaite. A Jew is not an Israelite and therefore not a Judaite. However a very small portion of Real Judaites could be in some modern Jewry. But this is very small as the Khazars make up most of modern Jewry. ASHKENAZI, ASHKENAZIM: ... constituted before 1933 some nine-tenths of the Jewish people (about 15,000,000 out of 16,500,000) [as of 1968 it is believed by some Jewish authorities to be closer to 100%]. [url="http://www.missiontoisrael.org/gods-covenant-people/chapter4.html"]http://www.missiontoisrael.org/gods-covenant-people/chapter4.html[/url]

(Ashkenazi is a descendant of Japath and not Shem, so therefore could not be an Israelite. For does not the Scripture say [url="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen009.html#26"][color=#0000ff]Gen 9:26[/color][/url] And he said, Blessed [be] the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. And [url="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen010.html#3"][color=#0000ff]Gen 10:3[/color][/url] And the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz, and Riphath, and Togarmah. - there was no Gomer in the line of Shem, but rather in the line of Japath.

[url="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen009.html#27"][color=#0000ff]Gen 9:27[/color][/url] God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. - Could the Jews be Japath, it would seem so.

The following information comes from [url="http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jews.htm"]http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jews.htm[/url]

"It is highly probable that the bulk of the Jew's ancestors 'never' lived in Palestine 'at all,' which witnesses the power of historical assertion over fact."

In addition, under the heading of "A brief History of the Terms for Jew" in the 1980 Jewish Almanac is the following: "Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an Ancient Israelite a 'Jew' or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew."

The World Book omits any reference to the Jews, but under the word Semite it states: "Semite...Semites are those who speak Semitic languages. In this sense the ancient Hebrews, Assyrians, Phoenicians, and Cartaginians were Semites. The Arabs and some Ethiopians are modern Semitic-speaking people. Modern Jews are often called Semites, but this name properly applies only to those who use the Hebrew Language. The Jews were once a sub-type of the Mediterranean race, but they have mixed with other peoples until the name 'Jew' has lost all racial meaning."

There are hundreds of books {most of which are Jewish Encyclopedias and history books} available for study, which prove that over 90% of the Jews of the world are not a Semitic people, but few people other than historians ever bother to read them. Following are just a few:

The History of The Jewish Khazars, by D.M. Dunlop, pp. 4-15: "...Our first question here is, When did the Khazars and the Khazar name appear? There has been considerable discussion as to the relation of the Khazars to the Huns on the one hand and to the West Turks on the other. The prevalent opinion has for some time been that the Khazars emerged from the West Turkish empire. Early references to the Khazars appear about the time when the West Turks cease to be mentioned. Thus they are reported to have joined forces with the Greek Emperor Heraclius against the Persians in A.D. 627 and to have materially assisted him in the siege of Tiflis. it is a question whether the Khazars were at this time under West Turk supremacy. The chronicler Theophanes {died circa A.D. 818} who tells the story introduces them as 'the Turks from the east whom they call Khazars.'... A similar discussion on the merits of the different races is reported from the days before Muhammad, in which the speakers are the Arab Nu'man ibn-al-Mudhir of al-Hirah and Khusraw Anushirwan. The Persian gives his opinion that the Greeks, Indians, and Chinese are superior to the Arabs and so also, in spite of their low material standards of life, the Turks and the Khazars, who at least possess an organization under their kings. Here again the Khazars are juxtaposed with the great nations of the east. It is consonant with this that tales were told of how ambassadors from the Chinese, the Turks, and the Khazars were constantly at Khusraw's gate, and even that he kept three thrones of gold in his palace, which were never removed and on which none sat, reserved for the kings of Byzantium, China and the Khazars. In general, the material in the Arabic and Persian writers with regard to the Khazars in early times falls roughly into three groups, centering respectively round the names of (a) one or other of the Hebrew patriarchs, (b) Alexander the Great, and (c) certain of the Sassanid kings, especially, Anushirwan and his immediate successors. A typical story of the first group is given by Ya'qubi in his History. After the confusion of tongues at Babel, the descendants of Noah came to Peleg, son of Eber, and asked him to divide the earth among them. He apportioned to the descendants of Japheth - China, Hind, Sind, the country of the Turks and that of the Khazars, as well as Tibet, the country of the (Volga) Bulgars, Daylam, and the country neighboring on Khurasan. In another passage Ya'qubi gives a kind of sequel to this. Peleg having divided the earth in this fashion, the descendants of 'Amur ibn-Tubal, a son of Japheth, went out to the northeast. One group, the descendants of Togarmah, proceeding farther north, were scattered in different countries and became a number of kingdoms, among them the Burjan (Bulgars), Alans, Khazars (Ashkenaz), and Armenians. Similarly, according to Tabari, there were born to Japheth Jim-r (the Biblical Gomer ), Maw'-' (read Mawgh-gh, Magog ), Mawday (Madai ), Yawan (Javan) ), Thubal (Tubal), Mash-j (read Mash-kh, Meshech) and Tir-sh (Tiras). Of the descendants of the last were the Turks and the Khazars (Ashkenaz). There is possibly an association here with the Turgesh, survivors of the West Turks, who were defeated by the Arabs in 119/737, and disappeared as a ruling group in the same century. Tabari says curiously that of the descendants of Mawgh-gh (Magog) were Yajuj and Majuj, adding that these are to the east of the Turks and Khazars. This information would invalidate Zeki Validi's attempt to identify Gog and Magog in the Arabic writers with the Norwegians. The name Mash-kh (Meshech) is regarded by him as probably a singular to the classical Massagetai (Massag-et). A Bashmakov emphasizes the connection of 'Meshech' with the Khazars, to establish his theory of the Khazars, not as Turks from inner Asia, but what he calls a Jephetic or Alarodian group from south of the Caucasus. Evidently there is no stereotyped form of this legendary relationship of the Khazars to Japheth. The Taj-al- Artis says that according to some they are the descendants of Kash-h (? Mash-h or Mash-kh, for Meshech), son of Japheth, and according to others both the Khazars and the Saqalibah are sprung from Thubal (Tubal). Further, we read of Balanjar ibn-Japheth in ibn-al-Faqih and abu-al-Fida' as the founder of the town of Balanjar. Usage leads one to suppose that this is equivalent to giving Balanjar a separate racial identity. In historical times Balanjar was a well-known Khazar center, which is even mentioned by Masudi as their capital. It is hardly necessary to cite more of these Japheth stories. Their Jewish origin is priori obvious, and Poliak has drawn attention to one version of the division of the earth, where the Hebrew words for 'north' and 'south' actually appear in the Arabic text. The Iranian cycle of legend had a similar tradition, according to which the hero Afridun divided the earth among his sons, Tuj (sometimes Tur, the eponym of Turan), Salm, and Iraj. Here the Khazars appear with the Turks and the Chinese in the portion assigned to Tuj, the eldest son. Some of the stories connect the Khazars with Abraham. The tale of a meeting in Khurasan between the sons of Keturah and the Khazars (Ashkenaz) where the Khaqan is Khaqan is mentioned is quoted from the Sa'd and al-Tabari by Poliak. The tradition also appears in the Meshed manuscript of ibn-al-Faqih, apparently as part of the account of Tamim ibn-Babr's journey to the Uigurs, but it goes back to Hishim al-Kalbi. Zeki Validi is inclined to lay some stress on it as a real indication of the presence of the Khazars in this region at an early date. Al-Jahiz similarly refers to the legend of the sons of Abraham and Keturah settling in Khurasan but does not mention the Khazars. Al-Di-mashqi says that according to one tradition the Turks were the children of Abraham by Keturah, whose father belonged to the original Arab stock. Descendants of other sons of Abraham, namely the Soghdians and the Kirgiz, were also said to live beyond the Oxus..."

Benjamin Freeman, Facts Are Facts: "CHAZARS: A people of Turkish origin whose life and history are interwoven with the very beginnings of the history of the Jews of Russia...driven on by the nomadic tribes of the steppes and by their own desire for plunder and revenge... In the second half of the sixth century the Chazars moved westward...The kingdom of the Chazars was firmly established in most of south Russia long before the foundation of the Russian monarchy by the Varangians...At this time the kingdom of the Chazars stood at the height of its power and was constantly at war...At the end of the eighth century...the chagan (king) of the Chazars and his grandees, together with a large number of his heathen people, embraced the Jewish religion"

Encyclopedia Americana (1985): "Khazar, an ancient Turkic-speaking people who ruled a large and powerful state in the steppes North of the Caucasus Mountains from the 7th century to their demise in the mid- 11th century A.D...In the 8th Century it's political and religious head...as well as the greater part of the Khazar nobility, abandoned paganism and converted to Judaism..."

Encyclopedia Britannica (15th edition): "Khazars, confederation of Turkic and Iranian tribes that established a major commercial empire in the second half of the 6th century, covering the southeastern section of modern European Russia...In the middle of the 8th century the ruling classes adopted Judaism as their religion."

Academic American Encyclopedia (1985): "Ashkenazim, the Ashkenazim are one of the two major divisions of the Jews, the other being the Shephardim."

Encyclopedia Americana (1985): "Ashkenazim, the Ashkenazim are the Jews whose ancestors lived in German lands...it was among Ashkenazi Jews that the idea of political Zionism emerged, leading ultimately to the establishment of the state of Israel...In the late 1960s, Ashkenazi Jews numbered some 11 million, about 84 percent of the world Jewish population."

The Jewish Encyclopedia: "Khazars, a non-Semitic, Asiatic, Mongolian tribal nation who emigrated into Eastern Europe about the first century, who were converted as an entire nation to Judaism in the seventh century by the expanding Russian nation which absorbed the entire Khazar population, and who account for the presence in Eastern Europe of the great numbers of Yiddish-speaking Jews in Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Galatia, Besserabia and Rumania."

The Encyclopedia Judaica (1972): "Khazars, a national group of general Turkic type, independent and sovereign in Eastern Europe between the seventh and tenth centuries C.E. during part of this time the leading Khazars professed Judaism...In spite of the negligible information of an archaeological nature, the presence of Jewish groups and the impact of Jewish ideas in Eastern Europe are considerable during the Middle Ages. Groups have been mentioned as migrating to Central Europe from the East often have been referred to as Khazars, thus making it impossible to overlook the possibility that they originated from within the former Khazar Empire."

The Universal Jewish Encyclopedia: "Khazars, a medieval people, probably related to the Volga Bulgars, whose ruling class adopted Judaism during the 8th cent. The Khazars seem to have emerged during the 6th cent., from the vast nomadic Hun (Turki) empire which stretched from the steppes of Eastern Europe and the Volga basin to the Chinese frontier. Although it is often claimed that allusions to the Khazars are found as early as 200 C.E., actually they are not mentioned until 627...most Jewish historians date the conversion of the Khazar King to Judaism during the first half of this century {A.D.}..."

The primary meaning of Ashkenaz and Ashkenazim in Hebrew is Germany and Germans. This may be due to the fact that the home of the ancient ancestors of the Germans is Media, which is the Biblical Ashkenaz...Krauss is of the opinion that in the early medieval ages the Khazars were sometimes referred to as Ashkenazim...About 92 percent of all Jews or approximately 14,500,000 are Ashkenazim.

The Bible relates that the Khazar (Ashkenaz) Jews were/are the sons of Japheth not Shem: "Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood. The sons of Japheth;...the sons of Gomer; Ashkenaz..." So the Bible verifies that the Ashkenaz Jews [Khazars] are not the descendants of Shem and cannot be Semite.

The American People's Encyclopedia for 1954 at 15-292 records the following in reference to the Khazars: "In the year 740 A.D. the Khazars were officially converted to Judaism. A century later they were crushed by the incoming Slavic-speaking people and were scattered over central Europe where they were known as Jews. It is from this grouping that most German, Polish and Hungarian Jews are descended, and they likewise make up a considerable part of that population now found in America. The term Aschenazim is applied to this round-headed, dark-complexioned division."

Academic American Encyclopedia Deluxe Library Edition, Volume 12, page 66 states: "The Khazars, a turkic people, created a commercial and political empire that dominated substantial parts of South Russia during much of the 7th through 10th centuries. During the 8th century the Khazar Aristocracy and the Kagan (King) were converted to Judaism."

The New Encyclopedia Britannica, Volume 6, page 836 relates: "Khazar, member of a confederation of Turkic-speaking tribes that in the late 6th century A.D. established a major commercial empire covering the southeastern section of modern European Russia...but the most striking characteristic of the Khazars was the apparent adoption of Judaism by the Khagan and the greater part of the ruling class in about 740...The fact itself, however, is undisputed and unparalleled in the history of Central Eurasia. A few scholars have asserted that the Judaized Khazars were the remote ancestors of many of the Jews of Eastern Europe and Russia."

Collier's Encyclopedia, Volume 14, page 65 states: "Khazars [kaza'rz], a semi-nomadic tribe of Turkish or Tatar origin who first appeared north of the Caucasus in the early part of the third century...In the eighth century Khaghan Bulan decided in favor of the Jews and accepted Judaism for himself and for his people..."

New Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume VIII, page 173 relates: "The Khazars were an ethnic group, belonging to the Turkish peoples, who, toward the end of the 2d century of the Christian Era, had settled in the region between the Caucasus and the lower Volga and Don Rivers...At the beginning of the 8th century, dynastic ties bound the Khazars more closely to Constantinople, which led to a limited spread of Christianity among them. They also became acquainted with Judaism from the numerous Jews who lived in the Crimea and along the Bosphorus. When the Byzantine Emperor, Leo the Isaurian, persecuted the Jews in A.D. 723, many Jews found refuge in the Khazar kingdom, and their influence was so great that, around the middle of the 8th century, the King of the Khazars and many of the Khazar nobility accepted the Jewish faith."

The Cadillac Modern Encyclopedia, page 822, states: "Khazars (khah'-zahrz), a S Russian people of Turkic origin, who at the height of their power (during the 8th-10th cent., A.D.) controlled an empire which included Crimea, and extended along the lower Volga, as far E as the Caspian Sea. The Khazar Royal Family and Aristocracy converted to Judaism during the reign of King Bulan (768-809 A.D.) and Judaism was thereafter regarded as the state religion..."

There are many, many publications we could quote but from the above, we can clearly see that the Jews fully understand their Khazarian heritage as the third edition of The Jewish Encyclopedia for 1925 records: "CHAZARS [Khazars]: A people of Turkish origin whose life and history are interwoven with the very beginnings of the history of the Jews of Russia. The kingdom of the Chazars was firmly established in most of South Russia long before the foundation of the Russian monarchy by the Varangians (855). Jews have lived on the shores of the Black and Caspian seas since the first centuries of the common era [after the death of Christ]. Historical evidence points to the region of the Ural as the home of the Chazars. Among the classical writers of the Middle Ages they were known as the 'Chozars,' 'Khazirs,' 'Akatzirs,' and 'Akatirs,' and in the Russian chronicles as 'Khwalisses' and 'Ugry Byelyye.'..." jews.htm

SCRIPTURESEZ is another mislead Christian, so it isn't his fault. Our enemies have done a great job at hiding the truth from many Christians. We should show him/her the right way, to help expose the mask of Edom.

Ponce

2005-02-19 00:07 | User Profile

Thaks Free, it makes sense to me now because the word "Jew" didn't come about till after the Khazards changed their religon.

Brooke

2005-02-19 00:14 | User Profile

The Jewish Encyclopedia. 1925 edition, Vol. 5, p. 41, says: "EDOM IS IN MODERN JEWRY."

Free The Truth

2005-02-19 00:24 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Ponce]Thaks Free, it makes sense to me now because the word "Jew" didn't come about till after the Khazards changed their religon.[/QUOTE] No probs.

Just a point to make out, the first Jew to appear in the Bible was 2nd Kings 16:16, and they were attacking Israel.

SCRIPTURESEZ

2005-02-19 15:39 | User Profile

The only truth I see anyone here offering is that people should take on the bondages and the rituals of the church, dyeing easter eggs and suchlike> And merely on the say so some man or woman or worse. And that takes the place of the Festivals of the Lord. No it cannot. The Festivals are forever.

Again, you don't really know who is Jewish. I am talking about the Covenant made with the House of Israel and House of Judah. And nevertheless Scripture says those who are in Yeshua HaMashiach are the [color=black]seed of Abraham. [/color]

But you continue to put your faith in authors claiming to be authorities. How do you know? What I see here is a way for you to mark out a certain prey like a hunter going for the kill to see what markings a "Jew" has. Just like hunting deer, same thing.

And what has hatred of anyone got to do with Jesus.

Ask Jesus/Yeshua what Festivals you should keep. Don't take polls of your neighbors and authors and whosoever and blindly follow what they say and do.

All I have seen here this board are writings based on hatred. Yet God commands love your enemy, to love our neighbor as ourselves.

Love is the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Hate is the fruit of another spirit.

I see writings about every fear of every war, disease, political move and so on. God does not give you the spirit of Fear but of Faith. I see fear of everything going on in the natural. I ask you why did not the folks in the wilderness get into the promised land? Because they looked at the giants in the land, in the natural and did not look to God. With faith.

I am telling you are in error and because of that you cannot come up with what the commands are in Revelation 14:12. Because you do not know them. And have not been taught them.

I understand that what is bothering you is that what if you told your wives and your girlfriends and your business associates and your buddies that you were not going to dye one more easter egg or bow to get those presents under one more xmas tree, what would they say? What would they do? That's fear of men, and Not the Reverance of God.

As long as you are in bondage to egyptian babylonian greek roman gods and customs as these people are, things stay the same.

Right up until Yeshua returns.

Better to get rid of all those things opposed to Yeshua, images, customs, idols in your heart and otherwise, sins, unforgiveness, hatred and all that is opposed to God now than to wait to He arrives.

And I know I can tell you and tell you and prove by Scripture alone as much as I want, but it is God that has to tell you.

Ask Jesus He will tell you. But beware there's many rebellious voices out there besides our own. Make sure it is Him. Worried? Ask him to confirm it some other way.

God loves us and wants us all, everyone to come to repentence. **All means all and forever means forever. **

Forever does not mean until a church or man decides 300 years later to change the Law.

For many there is no healing no tongues no law no commands no talking to Jesus.

That's in so called church doctrine too and men' s writings.

But it's not Scripture.

So you have a choice. What your buddies tell you or what God tells you.

Don't forget it was God who hardened Pharoahs heart and the Jews as Paul speaks about Jews, until the fullness of the gentiles come in. And then the Natural branches are grafted back in.

Be careful on your Jew hunt you dont cut the natural branches off or it will be you who will be cut off.

And that is also what Scripture says.

Texas Dissident

2005-02-19 19:49 | User Profile

[QUOTE=SCRIPTURESEZ]The only truth I see anyone here offering is that people should take on the bondages and the rituals of the church, dyeing easter eggs and suchlike> And merely on the say so some man or woman or worse. And that takes the place of the Festivals of the Lord. No it cannot. The Festivals are forever.

Quite the contrary, it is you who are denying the freedom of a Christian by arguing that we should take on the bondages and rituals of ancient judaism. Here is what St. Paul wrote on this exact issue and it could not be any clearer, nor refute your argument more completely:

So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness.

See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their selfimposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

• Colossians 2:6-23

So there you go. End of argument. I pray the Holy Spirit will lead you to the truth and true freedom of Christ's Gospel.

Petr

2005-02-19 20:04 | User Profile

[SIZE=3]"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, [U]or with regard to a religious festival[/U], a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ." [/SIZE]

• Colossians 2:16-17

That take Judaizers!

What do you think of this, Scripturesez?

Petr

Free The Truth

2005-02-19 21:04 | User Profile

Scripturesez, by any chance are you a Jew?

Do not use the word "Jew" in reference to any of the Apostles, Prophets, or Kings of Israel, the first Jewish King to rule Israel was Herod (remember how he had all the babies in Bethalem(sp) killed?) - Because he knew that Yeshua knew the truth, about who the Jews are.

Yeshua was a Judaite, Paul was a Benjamite who was a resident of Judah, he was not a Jew. The word that originially appeared in the original KJ bible was "Loudean" which means simply "RESIDENT OF JUDAH" - and this word was to become Jew. Paul was not a Jew, not one of Gods people were a Jew.

The Jews are not our allies, friends or brothers. They exist for one reason, to attack and kill the word of Yeshua and our faith in him. They would stab us in the back and blame the Arabs (who would atleast have the guts to stab us in the heart)

The Jews are a cleaver tribe, they have convinced not only many Christians of their lies, but also themselves. The one person whom knows the truth is Yeshua, and he told them they were a counterfeit people.

Phantasm

2005-02-19 23:12 | User Profile

[QUOTE=Free The Truth]Scripturesez, by any chance are you a Jew? ... The Jews are a cleaver tribe, they have convinced not only many Christians of their lies, but also themselves. The one person whom knows the truth is Yeshua, and he told them they were a counterfeit people.[/QUOTE] ...and no longer hold on to Jewish legends and to human commandments which come from people who have rejected the truth [Titus 1:14].

:thumbsup:

SCRIPTURESEZ

2005-02-20 14:36 | User Profile

Jesus Christ gave the Torah on Mt Sinai and Moses gave it to the people.

If you are saying that the Law was changed, then you are saying there was something wrong with the Law and it's giver Jesus. Yeshua

[size=3]"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, [u]or with regard to a religious festival[/u], a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

[/size]- Colossians 2:16-17 Paul was talking to converts that were fresh out of paganism and they were being trashed for Keeping Saturday and the Festivals of the Lord instead of worshipping their babylonian greek roman egytptian gods (demons)

Petr

2005-02-20 14:42 | User Profile

[COLOR=DarkRed][B][I] - "If you are saying that the Law was changed, then you are saying there was something wrong with the Law and it's giver Jesus. Yeshua"[/I][/B][/COLOR]

You are just begging the question and arguing in circles.

The Law in itself was a consequence of the Fall and human sin - if there had not been Fall, no revealed Law would have been necessary.

So there is indeed something "wrong" about the Law, just like there is something wrong about the penal system in general - if things were like they were supposed to be, it wouldn't be necessary. It's a fundamentally [I]negative[/I] thing, meant to check human depravity and not as means for salvation:

[COLOR=Blue][B]But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, [U]Knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person[/U], [/COLOR]

1 Timothy 1:8-9

[COLOR=DarkRed][I] - "Paul was talking to converts that were fresh out of paganism and they were being trashed for Keeping Saturday and the Festivals of the Lord instead of worshipping their babylonian greek roman egytptian gods (demons)"[/I][/B][/COLOR]

Pathetic eisegesis. Then why does Paul specifically mention the Sabbath day as just a shadow of things to come in Christ?

Petr

SCRIPTURESEZ

2005-02-20 15:13 | User Profile