← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Jack Cassidy
Thread ID: 16590 | Posts: 20 | Started: 2005-02-04
2005-02-04 21:30 | User Profile
[font='Courier New'][color=black]http://www.sptimes.com/2005/02/02/Tampabay/Iraq_hero_joins_hallo.shtml<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
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[font='Courier New']President Bush will present [/font]
[font='Courier New']By ALEX LEARY, Times Staff Writer
[font='Courier New']Published [/font]
[font='Courier New'][/font]
[font='Courier New']Sgt. 1st Class Paul R. Smith, who spent his boyhood in [/font]
[font='Courier New']The official announcement will come soon, but the Pentagon called Mrs. Smith with the news Tuesday afternoon.
[font='Courier New']"We had faith he was going to get it," Mrs. Smith said from her home in [/font]
[font='Courier New']"People know what's he's done ... people know that to get a Medal of Honor you have to be a special person or do something really great."
[font='Courier New']What Paul Smith did on [/font]
[font='Courier New']"I'm in bittersweet tears," said Smith's mother, Janice Pvirre. "The medal isn't going to bring him back. ... It makes me sad that all these other soldiers have died. They are all heroes."
[font='Courier New']With the medal, Smith joins a most hallowed society.
[font='Courier New']Since the Civil War, just 3,439 men (and one woman) have received the Medal of Honor. It recognizes only the most extreme examples of bravery - those "above and beyond the call of duty."
[font='Courier New']That oft-heard phrase has a specific meaning: The medal cannot be given to those who act under orders, no matter how heroic their actions. Indeed, according to Library of Congress defense expert David F. Burrelli, it must be "the type of deed which, if he had not done it, would not subject him to any justified criticism."
[font='Courier New']From World War II on, most of the men who received the medal died in the action that led to their nomination. There are but 129 living recipients.
[font='Courier New']Smith is the first soldier from the [/font]
[font='Courier New']The officer who called Birgit Smith on Tuesday nominated her husband for the medal.
[font='Courier New']Lt. Col. Thomas Smith (no relation) sent in his recommendation in May 2003, beginning a process that involved reviews at 12 levels of the military chain of command before reaching the White House. On Tuesday, Lt. Col. Smith expressed satisfaction that the wait was over, and great admiration for his former subordinate.
[font='Courier New']In the Army, he said, you hear about men who won the Medal of Honor. "You think they are myths when you read about them. It's almost movielike. You just don't think you'd ever meet someone like that."
[font='Courier New']Paul Smith, he said, was not a "soft soldier" who suddenly got tough under fire. "This was a guy whose whole life experience seemed building toward putting him in the position where he could do something like this. He was demanding on his soldiers all the time and was a stickler for all the things we try to enforce. It's just an amazing story."
[font='Courier New']Lt. Col. Smith commanded the 11th Engineer Battalion, 3rd Infantry Division, during the American attack on [/font]
[font='Courier New']A call went out for a place to put some Iraqi prisoners.
[font='Courier New']Sgt. Smith volunteered to create a holding pen inside a walled courtyard. Soon, Iraqi soldiers, numbering perhaps 100, opened fire on Smith's position. Smith was accompanied by 16 men.
[font='Courier New']Smith called for a Bradley, a tank-like vehicle with a rapid fire cannon. It arrived and opened up on the Iraqis. The enemy could not advance so long as the Bradley was in position. But then, in a move that baffled and angered Smith's men, the Bradley left.
[font='Courier New']Smith's men, some of whom were wounded, were suddenly vulnerable.
[font='Courier New']Smith could have justifiably ordered his men to withdraw. Lt. Col. Smith believes Sgt. Smith rejected that option, thinking that abandoning the courtyard would jeopardize about 100 GIs outside - including medics at an aid station.
[font='Courier New']Sgt. Smith manned a 50-caliber machine gun atop an abandoned armored personnel carrier and fought off the Iraqis, going through several boxes of ammunition fed to him by 21-year-old Pvt. Michael Seaman. As the battle wound down, Smith was hit in the head. He died before he could be evacuated from the scene. He was 33.[/font]
[font='Courier New'][/font]
[font='Courier New'][/font][font='Courier New']Sgt. Matthew Keller was one of the men who fought with Smith in the courtyard. "He put himself in front of his soldiers that day and we survived because of his actions," Keller said Tuesday from [/font]
[font='Courier New']"I want to be there to support the family and show thanks for what Sgt. Smith did," Keller said.
[font='Courier New']Mrs. Smith moved to [/font]
[font='Courier New']"From the beginning (David) didn't show much feelings, keeping to himself," Mrs. Smith said. "He thinks if he brings it up it will make me sad. He's trying to be the strong one. The day Paul left for [/font]
[font='Courier New']"Paul is not forgotten," she said. "He's part of history now. It makes me feel proud, so honored that I was allowed to be part of Paul's life. Even today he's probably laughing at all of us, saying "You're making way too big a deal out of me.'
[font='Courier New']"He did what he had to do to protect his men, not to get a medal."
2005-02-04 21:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE][color=navy][font=Courier New]Smith called for a Bradley, a tank-like vehicle with a rapid fire cannon. It arrived and opened up on the Iraqis. The enemy could not advance so long as the Bradley was in position. [u][color=red]But then, in a move that baffled and angered Smith's men, the Bradley left.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
Sounds suspiciously like that incident in Afghanistan, when that dumb**** NFL football player got his brains blown out by his own men, only to be made out a "hero" by the US Army top staff in order to cover up their boo-boo. I think this Sgt. Smith was another "mistake" by the US Army, and now they're throwing his grieving family a bone by awarding Smith's bullet-riddled corpse a Medal of Honor.
And another thing: giving him the Medal of Honor was too much - a Silver Star is all he should've got, max.
2005-02-04 22:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=General Rommel]The US Army KNOWS who was commanding that Bradley armored vehicle. They KNOW. So that begs the question: Why wasn't that Bradley commander hunted down, slammed up against the side of his head by two MP nightsticks, kneed in the groin, then thrown (like the sack of shit that he is) into the brig to await courtmartial and imprisonment?
Sounds suspiciously like that incident in Afghanistan, when that dumb**** NFL football player got his brains blown out by his own men, only to be made out a "hero" by the US Army top staff in order to cover up their boo-boo. I think this Sgt. Smith was another "mistake" by the US Army, and now they're throwing his grieving family a bone by awarding Smith's bullet-riddled corpse a Medal of Honor.
And another thing: giving him the Medal of Honor was too much - a Silver Star is all he should've got, max.[/QUOTE] It almost goes without saying that the most likely explanation for the Bradley taking off was poor communication. I don't think it was anything like, "Man, this Bradley's been sitting out here in the open for awhile. I think we better get outta here before they get an anti-tank missile in here. Ok, bye-bye guys, gotta run. Good luck in the fighting."
2005-02-04 22:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE][color=navy]It almost goes without saying that the most likely explanation for the Bradley taking off was [color=red][u]poor communication[/u][/color].[/color] [/QUOTE] The comment above only strengthens my point. If you recall, that's exactly how the NFL guy died, due to "poor communication" among his unit of soldiers. I contend that Sgt. Smith died as a result of battlefield incompetence, and now the US Army is "over compensating" him with the Medal of Honor, just like they overcompensated the NFL soldier by giving him a medal he didn't actually deserve.
2005-02-05 18:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=General Rommel]The US Army KNOWS who was commanding that Bradley armored vehicle. They KNOW. ..
[B][I]Sounds suspiciously like that incident in Afghanistan, when that dumb**** NFL football player got his brains blown out by his own men, only to be made out a "hero" by the US Army top staff in order to cover up their boo-boo. I think this Sgt. Smith was another "mistake" by the US Army, and now they're throwing his grieving family a bone by awarding Smith's bullet-riddled corpse a Medal of Honor[/I].[/B]
And another thing: giving him the Medal of Honor was too much - a Silver Star is all he should've got, max.[/QUOTE]This forum now has another internet tough guy, a tough talking (or writing) punk. His namesake, Erwon, would have been quick to slap the shit out of this punk.
2005-02-05 18:18 | User Profile
Edward,
He has already been cyber slapped in another forum [url=http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16593]here.[/url]
2005-02-08 21:14 | User Profile
The last thing OD needs is another Inquisition.
2005-02-08 21:23 | User Profile
Erik D, are you the "Erik D" I know from elsewhere? The one who began as a CI nutjob posting annihilation fantasies on the VNN Forum, who ended up leading singalongs of "Koombaya" on the Phora?
2005-02-08 21:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=ErikD] The last thing OD needs is another Inquisition.[/QUOTE] I thought the last thing OD needed was an influx of easily-offended, smartassed, anti-Christian atheists with no sense of propriety or manners. But perhaps I was wrong.
2005-02-08 22:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Erik D, are you the "Erik D" I know from elsewhere? The one who began as a CI nutjob posting annihilation fantasies on the VNN Forum, who ended up leading singalongs of "Koombaya" on the Phora?[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's me. But I was never CI... even I'm not that deluded. Koombaya, however, is a nice kiddie song... too bad it's about a Jewish god who loves Jews "above all others", and will smash any nation that will not "serve" them. Not really my cup of tea.
Nice to see you too il ragno.
2005-02-08 23:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE]At any rate, the man posting under the name of General Rommel is a rare intellect,...[/QUOTE]
No, just someone who saw the old movie starring James Mason and liked the name. :lol:
[QUOTE]as well as entertaining,...[/QUOTE]
Yes, he was really entertaining in that Francis thread before it was split. That is a great way to impress people with one's deep intellect, coming on a thread and urinating in everyone elses face.
2005-02-08 23:35 | User Profile
..........
2005-02-08 23:43 | User Profile
He certainly didn't display it on the Francis thread before it was split. That was nothing less than an attempt to cause trouble. He succeeded too, in bringing justified abuse upon himself.
2005-02-08 23:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]He certainly didn't display it on the Francis thread before it was split. That was nothing less than an attempt to cause trouble. He succeeded too, in bringing justified abuse upon himself.[/QUOTE]
I guess I didn't see the whole exchange, but only the split thread, so I don't really know the full story. At any rate, he's a smart guy, and I enjoy his posts, so I didn't want to see him disappear.
2005-02-09 02:50 | User Profile
Nice running into you again, ErikD. Well, as you can see, I've upset a few members of the OD Embalming Society (to use Martin Lindstedt's term) and now they want to lynch me. In truth, I'm a rather sedate fellow, but this beseeching of a non-existent God in order to "save" Sam Francis smacks too much of voodooism. And judging by what I've seen so far, people here are free to spout that sort of silly thing, even though it cannot hold up to even the slightest puff of logic or reason.
Oh well....
2005-02-09 03:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=General **]Nice running into you again, ErikD. Well, as you can see, I've upset a few members of the OD Embalming Society (to use Martin Lindstedt's term) and now they want to lynch me...[/QUOTE]
No, you're the one who came on that thread and started urinating in everyone's face. Do you expect people to call it dew? And now you want to start whinning about people taking you to task. Most people here could give a damn less about your views on religion. Get over it and next time show better judgement.
2005-02-09 17:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE=General Rommel]In truth, I'm a rather sedate fellow, but this beseeching of a non-existent God in order to "save" Sam Francis smacks too much of voodooism. And judging by what I've seen so far, people here are free to spout that sort of silly thing, even though it cannot hold up to even the slightest puff of logic or reason.
Oh well....[/QUOTE]
What a bunch of crap.
Even if you don't share others' beliefs, what possible harm could come from people praying for a man's recovery from a serious illness? Provided they're not smacking the nitro pills out of Francis' hand, insisting that he rely soley on God's divine intervention for his recovery, what the hell is your problem?
2005-02-09 23:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=General Rommel]Nice running into you again, ErikD. Well, as you can see, I've upset a few members of the OD Embalming Society (to use Martin Lindstedt's term) and now they want to lynch me. In truth, I'm a rather sedate fellow, but this beseeching of a non-existent God in order to "save" Sam Francis smacks too much of voodooism. And judging by what I've seen so far, people here are free to spout that sort of silly thing, even though it cannot hold up to even the slightest puff of logic or reason.
Oh well....[/QUOTE]Define this non-existent God to make sure we are referring to the same entity. Perhaps upon your description of this thing-- which lacks the property of existence-- I too will agree I don't believe that such an entity exists, or is coterminous with being (esse).
As for your last statement, isn't it curious that the foremost logicians in the world are religious men-- e.g., Michael Dummett (Oxford), Bas Van Frassaan (Princeton), Nicholas Rescher (Pittsburgh), Peter Geach (Leeds, Oxford)?!!
2005-02-10 03:43 | User Profile
JC: The burden of proof falls upon the God-believers. When I say that God does not exist, that is to say that no proof that He does exists. Show me some concrete evidence to the contrary. (The Bible doesn't count)
2005-02-10 03:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=General *]JC: The burden of proof falls upon the God-believers. When I say that God does not exist, that is to say that no proof that He does exists.* Show me some concrete evidence to the contrary. (The Bible doesn't count)[/QUOTE]
I'm going to show you a link dedicated to you.
[url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?p=100357#post100357[/url]
You want to argue if God exist or not? Then take it over there. You are not going to start a damn flame war about this on every thread you post on. Last warning.