← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Franco
Thread ID: 16445 | Posts: 144 | Started: 2005-01-26
2005-01-26 11:47 | User Profile
It appears that The Phora has been closed down. Anyone know why?
2005-01-26 12:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]It appears that The Phora has been closed down. Anyone know why?[/QUOTE] Probably just Fade's time of the month, check back in four to six days Franco.
2005-01-26 12:38 | User Profile
Looks as though Fade threw the hissy fit of all time. Apparently he couldn't abide the reluctance of the membership to fall in line behind him and cheerlead for Bush's War for Israel (a charming thread about "towel rollers getting smoked"). I kept telling him there's [I]already [/I] a board for that viewpoint - called Free Republic, I believe - but I guess he wasn't listening.
Like most neocon 'populists', he couldn't scare up an amen corner via the free-speech method, so he shut 'er down altogether. Now he can claim to speak for Most Americans without fear of rebuttal from Any Americans whatsoever.
I still think he'll show up here, singing the same phony song about Nazis and Frenchmen and Muslims, oh my. At least I'll always have my sig to remember him by....
2005-01-26 13:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]It appears that The Phora has been closed down. Anyone know why?[/QUOTE]
Who cares.
2005-01-26 14:08 | User Profile
I do, for two reasons.
Everybody here knows I was in sharp disagreement with OD's Christian Nationalist tilt, but at least the membership had sufficient warning of what was coming. Yanking the plug on a board out of petulance is......petulant - like a spoiled brat who smashes his toys, furious that the other kids are having fun with them. Apparently this is something he does on a regular basis, though, as a few Phorans advised me. Still, who knew he'd fold under pressure [I]this [/I] easily?
2005-01-26 14:45 | User Profile
Surprising, but I would be even more surprised if it stays closed. I guess we'll see.
For what it's worth, my [url=http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15960]message[/url] from the end of last month still stands.
2005-01-26 14:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]#2. Frankly, I thought I was publicly waxing him, and doing a pretty good job of discrediting his neocon bully tactics. What is the point of posting to a board where everyone is in lockstep agreement with each other?[/QUOTE]
I agree with you here, and I thoroughly, really enjoyed reading your posts slicing and dicing Fade, even until yesterday or the day before. However, after reading a few of those back-and-forths, it appears to get very redundant....just like the redundancy when everyone is in lockstep. I thought I remember you saying that debating is not necessarily the point of the discussions, that it's more about changing minds. It seems you already miss all that debating. I guess I can't blame you, some of it was really good.
[QUOTE]Everybody here knows I was in sharp disagreement with OD's Christian Nationalist tilt, but at least the membership had sufficient warning of what was coming. Yanking the plug on a board out of petulance is......petulant - like a spoiled brat who smashes his toys, furious that the other kids are having fun with them. Apparently this is something he does on a regular basis, though, as a few Phorans advised me. Still, who knew he'd fold under pressure [I]this [/I] easily?[/QUOTE]
You seem surprised at the spoiled brat's petulance. I'm not. No one was changing his mind and he wasn't changing anyone else's mind. That whole board devolved into mush. At least the "Original Dissent Enbalming Society" remains a consistent place to speak your mind without all the nonsense that appeared on that other board.
2005-01-26 15:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]I do, for two reasons.
Everybody here knows I was in sharp disagreement with OD's Christian Nationalist tilt, but at least the membership had sufficient warning of what was coming. Yanking the plug on a board out of petulance is......petulant - like a spoiled brat who smashes his toys, furious that the other kids are having fun with them. Apparently this is something he does on a regular basis, though, as a few Phorans advised me. Still, who knew he'd fold under pressure [I]this [/I] easily?[/QUOTE]
A few hours before The Phora was taken down, I was tossing around the word "kike" there. I wonder if that had anything to do with it?
2005-01-26 15:28 | User Profile
If Fade decided to close down the shop just because he found himself practically alone parroting that neocon partyline, then he is a much smaller character than I really thought he was.
I, for one, challenged him directly and demanded to know where his ultimate loyalties lied - that is, for what did that "[I]community[/I]" in his "[I]racial communitarianism[/I]" really stood for.
Still, I hope he'll come back, and as a wee bit more humble person.
I[/I]
Petr
2005-01-26 15:36 | User Profile
[QUOTE]However, after reading a few of those back-and-forths, it appears to get very redundant....just like the redundancy when everyone is in lockstep. [B]I thought I remember you saying that debating is not necessarily the point of the discussions, that it's more about changing minds[/B]. [/QUOTE]
Correctamundo. Which is why I never actually debated him. More like relentlessly kibitzed him (which made him furious!). Y'know, he'd cut and paste an unreadable 1000-word slab of text from a book claming Evil is actually French in nature; and I'd respond with a wisecrack like "The preceding History of Western Thought was brought to you by Wikipedia".
[QUOTE]A few hours before The Phora was taken down, I was tossing around the word "kike" there. I wonder if that had anything to do with it?[/QUOTE]
[I]Kike[/I]'s pretty mild compared to some of the stuff that got posted there everyday. (And I was as guilty as anyone - hell, the Phora's [I]main asset [/I] was you didn't have to beat around the bush typing "Negro" or "African-American"!) A little judicious use of profanity can be a great tool, if you use it sparingly, to make people laugh; it's [I]injudicious[/I] cussin' that quickly becomes boorish and offensive.
2005-01-26 15:36 | User Profile
Maybe he's interviewing for grad school and hasn't got time to administer it anymore. . . Anyway, is this the only alternative to the Phora, for thinking people who don't want to discuss "Who's Hot?" or "Who Do You Hate The Most" type threads. :dry:
2005-01-26 15:42 | User Profile
[B][I] - "Which is why I never actually debated him. More like relentlessly kibitzed him (which made him furious!)." [/I] [/B]
I also noticed how you, from time to time, commented on my posts with some boring New-York comedy-club quips. I was only mildly annoyed, your cryptonite doesn't work on me.
[I] [B]- "Y'know, he'd cut and paste an unreadable 1000-word slab of text from a book claming Evil is actually French in nature; [/B] [/I]
I could actually read them. I enjoy reading.
Petr
2005-01-26 15:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]I agree with you here, and I thoroughly, really enjoyed reading your posts slicing and dicing Fade, even until yesterday or the day before. However, after reading a few of those back-and-forths, it appears to get very redundant....just like the redundancy when everyone is in lockstep. I thought I remember you saying that debating is not necessarily the point of the discussions, that it's more about changing minds. It seems you already miss all that debating. I guess I can't blame you, some of it was really good. Maybe so, but what's the point of having a board like that? Like Il Ragno says, there are lots of neocon boards out there.
You seem surprised at the spoiled brat's petulance. I'm not. No one was changing his mind and he wasn't changing anyone else's mind. That whole board devolved into mush. At least the "Original Dissent Enbalming Society" remains a consistent place to speak your mind without all the nonsense that appeared on that other board.[/QUOTE]It sort of seems a general tendency of WN boards. They don't seem to be able to handle serious political disagreement, over philosophy, strategy, and tactics, in a democratic way or even orderly way. A few jingoistic positions are substituted for serious discussion on political thought, and that seems to the end of it. If the jingoistic positions are to the forums operator, it stays open, if not it shuts.
After all, compared with the paleo-oriented positions I find here, over at any of the WN boards I find a basic absense of substantive political discussion like we have here, with articles from Vdare, AmRen, and Chronicles. People that post there I think just aren't of the mind to do battle with the curmudgeonly types that like to dominate they key areas of disagreement, I guess so they spend their time with tripe. Forums like the Phora seem to become large scale versions of the proverbial Liberty Forum cage, engaging in limited polemical harrangatangs, then shutting down.
It strikes me that the WN's, by jetisoning conservative habits of philosophical agreement, pretty much jetison practical working models of getting along and communicating constructively. That's why it seems WN boards in general are so poor, and probably to some degree why they, and even people vaguely sympathetic to some of their positions like paleo's, are such pariahs at other boards.
2005-01-26 15:54 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno].... 1000-word slab of text from a book claming Evil is actually French in nature; and I'd respond with a wisecrack like "The preceding History of Western Thought was brought to you by Wikipedia".[/QUOTE]
Yea, berating the French like a good Freeper while claiming that he actually had nothing against the French, per se. Claiming that he's against the Iraq war from the beginning while having no understanding of why the Iraqis are, and have been, ferocioulsy fighting the American occupation and issuing declarations of "traitor" to any poster who pointed that out.
Such a weird dichotomy was part and parcel of that entire board.
2005-01-26 15:56 | User Profile
Interesting.
As someone who occasionally drops in to forums like this one, and the one under discussion, could someone explain a few things to me.
A while ago, Fade was doing his "deconstruction" thing, making some interesting critiques of "the holocaust", and seemed like a fairly ok white nationalist/revisionist type, if a bit vain and prolix. Then I stopped by later and he was doing his "we have to tone things down to appeal to the white masses" schtick, then I stopped by even later and I thought that David Horowitz and Lawrence Auster had taken over The Phora.
It was unreal, bizarre. Like visiting someone with multiple personality disorder, with a new personality every day. If I had been on that forum every day, the transition might have seemed "natural", but only visiting sporadically it seemed extremely unusual, and more than a little suspicous, to me.
So who is Fade, really? College student? I realized when I went to grad school that I would have to hide my beliefs; I sure as hell didn't cravenly change them though, just to "appeal to the masses" or whoever I felt I was supposed to be "speaking to in terms they can understand".
So, did Fade suddenly get cold feet and realize he was going to have zero chance of a career in Academia once people figured out who he was?
Or was it more sinister than that?
His change of tune so closely mirrors Neo-Conservative's cynical manipulation of American "patriotism" and "Islamophobia" that it can't be a simple coincidence.
So I ask again, who is Fade, really?
My apologies if you guys have discussed this before; if you could give me the gist of what you think, though, that would be great.
2005-01-26 16:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE]So I ask again, who is Fade, really?[/QUOTE]
Who gives a rat's ass?
That's one of the things about actually having a life, you can't be bothered by the mental onanism of those who obviously don't.
Out of sight, out of mind.
2005-01-26 16:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust] It strikes me that the WN's, by jetisoning conservative habits of philosophical agreement, pretty much jetison practical working models of getting along and communicating constructively. That's why it seems WN boards in general are so poor, and probably to some degree why they, and even people vaguely sympathetic to some of their positions like paleo's, are such pariahs at other boards.[/QUOTE]I don't know. OD is better than most, but it isn't entirely free of the problems that plague other boards. I suppose it is a matter of degree rather than of kind.
Forums do tend to take on some of the personality of their owners, assuming their owner takes on the obligation of actively running the forum. This probably tells us a lot about Fade!
Of course if the forum gets too big or the owner takes no active part (Liberty Forum qualifies on both counts) then you get...well, Liberty Forum.
As to WN: there are plenty of WN types who match the paleos perfectly in temperament and style: Yggdrasil for instance. Ygg posts occasionally in Stormfront, but last I checked he didn't really participate.
Somehow the Fascists and National Socialists, for all their problems, managed to put together functioning, successful organizations, and managed to attract serious and mature people who didn't exhibit these tendencies you mention as occurring on WN forums today.
I don't think its a WN only problem, either; it appears to be society-wide; at least within the USA, and probably in the West as a whole. The instant gratification nature of the Internet doesn't help encourage mature and considered reflection, either.
As to WN's "jetisoning conservative habits of philosophical agreement, pretty much jetison practical working models of getting along and communicating constructively", I'm not sure its a matter of "jettisoning" since I would argue that there has been no WN movement since before WWII, and there doesn't seem much chance of their being one in the near future.
What we have are a lot of atomized individuals, and nascent "groupescules" (sp?) wandering around in search of a movement. If these people "jettisoned" anything, it was done before they decided to start calling themselves WN.
2005-01-26 16:12 | User Profile
So, did Fade suddenly get cold feet and realize he was going to have zero chance of a career in Academia once people figured out who he was?"[/B][/I]
My money would be on this one. Fade strikes me as a somewhat socially ambitious young man.
And let me just say that I was immensely satisfied last autumn when Fade first began to take distance to Neo-Nazi loonies.
He sure gave them some well-deserved rap for forming a delusional, paranoid, self-marginalizing "ghetto attitude" of their own, and butchered many sacred Nazi cows about the angelic perfectness of Adolf Hitler.
Back then I thought Fade could really help the WN scene to raise its standards of scholarship and intellectual honesty, so that they wouldn't uncritically spout every clumsy piece of propaganda floating around in the Net.
Petr
2005-01-26 16:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]Who gives a rat's ass?
That's one of the things about actually having a life, you can't be bothered by the mental onanism of those who obviously don't.
Out of sight, out of mind.[/QUOTE]If that were true, this thread would not exist.
I merely ask out of curiousity. There's no need to be crude.
2005-01-26 16:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]And let me just say that I was immensely satisfied last autumn when Fade first began to take distance to Neo-Nazi loonies.
He sure gave them some well-deserved rap for forming a delusional, paranoid, self-marginalizing "ghetto attitude" of their own, and butchered many sacred Nazi cows about the angelic perfectedness of Adolf Hitler.
Back then I thought Fade could really help the WN scene to raise its standards of scholarship and intellectual honesty, so that they wouldn't uncritically spout every clumsy piece of propaganda floating around in the Net. [/QUOTE]That was not the reaction I had - possibly because I was only visiting occasionally.
Fade was throwing out the baby with the bathwater - deflating the pretensions of Nazi Hitler-worship is one thing; mindlessly repeating court historians and WWII propaganda as though it were gospel truth is another thing altogether.
Anyway, Europe is way ahead of us on this one; all this territory was treaded by the European New Right over twenty years ago. Somehow they managed to throw the bathwater out without throwing out the baby.
2005-01-26 16:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=grep14w]I don't know. OD is better than most, but it isn't entirely free of the problems that plague other boards. I suppose it is a matter of degree rather than of kind. Lord knows :lol: Seriously, even pure paleo's can be pretty crabby.
Forums do tend to take on some of the personality of their owners, assuming their owner takes on the obligation of actively running the forum. This probably tells us a lot about Fade!
Of course if the forum gets too big or the owner takes no active part (Liberty Forum qualifies on both counts) then you get...well, Liberty Forum. Actually I like LF. Only problem is it has no real goals, instead just real libertarians.
As to WN: there are plenty of WN types who match the paleos perfectly in temperament and style: Yggdrasil for instance. Ygg posts occasionally in Stormfront, but last I checked he didn't really participate. Any question why?
Somehow the Fascists and National Socialists, for all their problems, managed to put together functioning, successful organizations, and managed to attract serious and mature people who didn't exhibit these tendencies you mention as occurring on WN forums today.
You mean Germany and Italy (the most successful functioning) regarding that I'd note
They had serious problems as it were
Politically they had a much more favorable environment, with not nearly the amount of government opposition
I don't think its a WN only problem, either; it appears to be society-wide; at least within the USA, and probably in the West as a whole. The instant gratification nature of the Internet doesn't help encourage mature and considered reflection, either.
As to WN's "jetisoning conservative habits of philosophical agreement, pretty much jetison practical working models of getting along and communicating constructively", I'm not sure its a matter of "jettisoning" since I would argue that there has been no WN movement since before WWII, and there doesn't seem much chance of their being one in the near future.
What we have are a lot of atomized individuals, and nascent "groupescules" (sp?) wandering around in search of a movement. If these people "jettisoned" anything, it was done before they decided to start calling themselves WN.[/QUOTE]Its part of a broader problem in socety true. Also its due though I think to the great repression, and most importantly the response to it that existing WN organizations have taken.
Its an interesting topic - have to discuss later.
2005-01-26 16:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Maybe so, but what's the point of having a board like that? Like Il Ragno says, there are lots of neocon boards out there.[/QUOTE]
Indeed, what was the point of The Phora? It was mostly Neo-con philosophy while allowing it's members a little more leeway in speech than say a FreeRepublic. If you crossed the line, you were bombarded by the usual suspects with neobabble and cut-and-pasted 1000 word rebuttals, as Il Ragno pointed out.
[QUOTE]It sort of seems a general tendency of WN boards. They don't seem to be able to handle serious political disagreement, over philosophy, strategy, and tactics, in a democratic way or even orderly way. A few jingoistic positions are substituted for serious discussion on political thought, and that seems to the end of it. If the jingoistic positions are to the forums operator, it stays open, if not it shuts.
After all, compared with the paleo-oriented positions I find here, over at any of the WN boards I find a basic absense of substantive political discussion like we have here, with articles from Vdare, AmRen, and Chronicles. People that post there I think just aren't of the mind to do battle with the curmudgeonly types that like to dominate they key areas of disagreement, I guess so they spend their time with tripe. Forums like the Phora seem to become large scale versions of the proverbial Liberty Forum cage, engaging in limited polemical harrangatangs, then shutting down.
It strikes me that the WN's, by jetisoning conservative habits of philosophical agreement, pretty much jetison practical working models of getting along and communicating constructively. That's why it seems WN boards in general are so poor, and probably to some degree why they, and even people vaguely sympathetic to some of their positions like paleo's, are such pariahs at other boards.[/QUOTE]
Until a large majority WN's create and approve of a wide reaching political platform and unite behind it, our "movement" is DOA. It takes some compromise, constructive criticism, and serious debate but by trying vigorously to expunge the entire philosophies of those WN's that went before us, no matter who they were, is [B]not[/B] the starting point.
Fade's role model, Jared Taylor, still gets a nice ranking on SLPC's Top 40 Bad White Man list....right alongside Alex Linder and Billy Roper. That tells you alot right there.
2005-01-26 16:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=grep14w]So who is Fade, really? College student? I realized when I went to grad school that I would have to hide my beliefs; I sure as hell didn't cravenly change them though, just to "appeal to the masses" or whoever I felt I was supposed to be "speaking to in terms they can understand".
So, did Fade suddenly get cold feet and realize he was going to have zero chance of a career in Academia once people figured out who he was?
Or was it more sinister than that? [/QUOTE]That's my educated guess. I don't think it was anything more sinister.
I'd suspect he just realized how difficult what he was doing was, and decided to beat a hasty retreat, with a plausible cover story. Sort of like he was just doing a research project or something.
2005-01-26 16:32 | User Profile
[COLOR=Indigo][B][I] - "Fade was throwing out the baby with the bathwater - deflating the pretensions of Nazi Hitler-worship is one thing; mindlessly repeating court historians and WWII propaganda as though it were gospel truth is another thing altogether."[/I][/B][/COLOR]
I must admit that I began to have doubts when Fade began to extol the virtues of FDR. He began to look like a rather typical "convert" who simply has to run to that other extreme rather than adopting a reasonable position of "golden medium".
[COLOR=Indigo][I][B] - "Anyway, Europe is way ahead of us on this one; all this territory was treaded by the European New Right over twenty years ago. Somehow they managed to throw the bathwater out without throwing out the baby."[/B][/I][/COLOR]
"[I]Nouvelle Droite[/I]" has [B]not [/B] made a clear break with Nazism, and it has actually only intensified its anti-Christian aspects.
As a person living in Europe, I can testify that Fade was not just making things up when he claimed that Americans (in general) are still less spiritually corrupted than Western Europeans.
You American WNs better not idolize Europe too much - learn to value those things you still possess!
Petr
2005-01-26 16:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE]That was not the reaction I had - possibly because I was only visiting occasionally.
Fade was throwing out the baby with the bathwater - deflating the pretensions of Nazi Hitler-worship is one thing; mindlessly repeating court historians and WWII propaganda as though it were gospel truth is another thing altogether.[/QUOTE]
There you have it, succintly put. Nice job.
And, Okie, as usual, your method of 'ready, fire, AIM!' is off-base. The Phora - at least the past 3 or 4 months when I was there - was not even [I]remotely [/I] a WN board. Which isn't a [I]crime [/I] or anything; frankly I welcomed a wider spectrum of thought at the time; but it became numbingly obvious that Fade was seeking to be a thinking man's Sean Hannity. Which is like aspiring to be a little pregnant.
Petr: yes, we [I]all [/I] know how to read books, but the point is a lot of Fade's Book-of-the-Month Club selections were trash, albeit trash with a scholarly patina. Some even backfired on him, ie, that 'expose' on Derrida, the father of Deconstruction. How a man can pillory Jacques Derrida when his entire modus operandi for conducting arguments [I]was 100% deconstruction to begin with[/I] still astounds me.
2005-01-26 16:52 | User Profile
[I][B] - "The Phora - at least the past 3 or 4 months when I was there - was not even remotely a WN board." [/B] [/I]
Perhaps not from some Linderesque purist perspective, but if American Renaissance qualifies as WN then Phora should also.
Petr
2005-01-26 16:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno] And, Okie, as usual, your method of 'ready, fire, AIM!' is off-base. The Phora - at least the past 3 or 4 months when I was there - was not even [I]remotely [/I] a WN board. Which isn't a [I]crime [/I] or anything; frankly I welcomed a wider spectrum of thought at the time; but it became numbingly obvious that Fade was seeking to be a thinking man's Sean Hannity. Which is like aspiring to be a little pregnant. Funny!
"Thinking man's Sean Hannity". Now there's a contradiction in terms!
Petr: yes, we [I]all [/I] know how to read books, but the point is a lot of Fade's Book-of-the-Month Club selections were trash, albeit trash with a scholarly patina. Some even backfired on him, ie, that 'expose' on Derrida, the father of Deconstruction. How a man can pillory Jacques Derrida when his entire modus operandi for conducting arguments [I]was 100% deconstruction to begin with[/I] still astounds me.[/QUOTE]There's some good points to be made by deconstruction (even if the overall philosophy is hogwash) but Fade seems to be an extremist by nature - he can't seem to see both the good and the bad in all things; it always has to all of the one or all of the other.
This is certainly not a failing exclusive to Fade by any means; in fact, it seems to be the default position for most people.
2005-01-26 16:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr] Perhaps not from some Linderesque purist perspective, but if American Renaissance qualifies as WN then Phora should also. [/QUOTE]One doesn't have to be Linderesque to object to the notion that American Renaissance is WN.
If AR is WN, then the term WN is so overbroad as to be effectively meaningless.
2005-01-26 17:08 | User Profile
Didn't Fade shut the board down once before, only to re-open a day later?
I bet it will be back.
Lately he had some real wankers. Like this one guy who called himself a "pro-white East Asian Fetisist." He had a pic of a little 14 year old asian girl for his avatar.
2005-01-26 17:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Lord knows :lol: Seriously, even pure paleo's can be pretty crabby. I'm sure we are all guilty of this at least some times, especially if the forum in question caters to crabby people!
Some day if I am rich and idle, I'd like to see a forum where members would have to wait at least an hour or two before posting replies. It would be an interesting experiment to force people to take their time and think about what they are writing before they post it.
Actually I like LF. Only problem is it has no real goals, instead just real libertarians. I like LF too, but there is a distinct faction there that wants to turn the place into a libertarian Free Republic - one step at a time.
LF is the intellectual equivalent of a food fight. Sometimes fun, sometimes a waste of time, always messy.
I am glad it exists, even if it is sometimes a waste of time.
You mean Germany and Italy (the most successful functioning) regarding that I'd note
They had serious problems as it were
Politically they had a much more favorable environment, with not nearly the amount of government opposition
That's true. Another reason why modeling one's organizations on these is unlikely to work in current situations.
Social organizing - ie, non-politicized bringing of self-aware whites together for social purposes (family, community, etc.) would be far more profitable long term, until conditions change.
2005-01-26 18:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno] LF has always confused me. [I]Is[/I] it or [I]isn't[/I] it some bizarre offshoot of FR? Cosmetically it's practically a dead ringer for FR, what with all those 'flags' and such. Of course, then you scan the [I]thread-titles [/I] - and, obviously, we're not in Kansas anymore...[/QUOTE]LF'ers refer to FR as TOS - The Other Site. LF was founded by refugees from RimJob's purges over at LF. It's supposed to be libertarian and anarcho-capitalist, but some of these are pissed off that LF's free speach policy has attracted so many people who don't give a cr_p about libertarian or anarcho-capitalistic theoretical game playing or pointless fantasy indulging.
So naturally, you would see some of the similiarities, although the software itself is vastly different.
The current tempest in a teacup over there is "Liberty Station", an invitation only subforum at LF designed to have a discussion forum free from any taint of "the Jewish question" - in other words, the usual suspects are trying to recreate FR, having forgotten why they came to LF in the first place.
2005-01-26 22:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]If Fade decided to close down the shop just because he found himself practically alone parroting that neocon partyline, then he is a much smaller character than I really thought he was.
Petr[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say he was "practically alone in parroting the neocon partyline" what about "john rocker" and otto von bismarch" just to name a couple. There seemed to be plenty of neocons on the Phora. Too many in fact. LOL
thanks for the link, franco
2005-01-26 23:23 | User Profile
In some ways, my mission was accomplished today. I began posting at the Phora a few weeks ago after leaving the Internet world for a few months, and discovering that Fade had basically become a cheerleader for the Empire. My goal was to serve as an opponent of Fade, poking holes in his academic pretensions since I myself had actually been where Fade's headed (grad school). My secondary goal was to lure Fade back to the "dark side" that he'd been at a few months beforehand, if possible.
I will miss asking him the question: "why were Richard Nixon and Billy Graham whispering in the Oval Office about how they can't talk in public about Jewish influence in the media, as demonstrated on the tapes released on the nightly news a year or so ago?" I'd whip that question out whenever Fade insisted it was an empty "conspiracy theory" to talk about Jews and the media. I'd also ask why Billy Graham fell all over himself apologizing for what he was caught saying in the '70s. He never answered it head on....
2005-01-27 01:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=PaleoconAvatar]In some ways, my mission was accomplished today. ....My goal was to serve as an opponent of Fade, [/QUOTE]I hope not all your ambitions are so modest.
2005-01-27 01:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=grep14w]This would be my impression of Fade as well. This nicely illustrates the problems I am thinking of. Everyone sees everything and interprets everything through their own blinders. I assume yourself not exempted.
In fact the ND has made a clean break with Nazism (if it ever had any "attachment" to NS at all), based on my own readings, if one assumes by ND that we are talking about representative people like Michael Walker or Alain de Benoist. People like Evola who stil admire Himmler hardly seem to make a clean break, especially on the right side.
I think you are confusing "anti-Christian" or "anti-religious" with "Nazism". Nothing could be further from the truth.
Intensifying "anti-Christian aspects" has got nothing to do with "Nazism"; quite the contrary. Au contraire, they always were closely related.
And the reasons for its anti-Christian thought certainly aren't rooted in any kind of "Nazism". But vice versa is certainly true.
If you mean a rooted attachment to the more "spiritual" things that aren't related to literalist religion - tradition, order, manners, mysticism, history, language, culture, nature, art, literature, learning - all of which most definitely have a spiritual impact, than Europe is still quite spiritual, and America is a howling wasteland inhabited by spiritually stunted barbarians, in comparison. Ah give me a break!
[QUOTE]I've had more than my fill of Church-going, Bible-thumping, know-nothing Christians who yell "Yahoo! Bomb them rag-heads!" whilst waddling off to drive their SUVs to the local Walmarts to buy cheap consumer goods made by slave labor in China, all the while talking about how America is the "greatest nation on Earth, chosen by God" (the Judeo-Christian, Judiazing aspects of this should be obvious).[/QUOTE]You sound just like all the lib-commies
2005-01-27 01:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Spengler or even AntiYuppie you're not...[/QUOTE]Where is AntiYuppie? Does he post here, or where? :confused:
2005-01-27 02:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=albion]Where is AntiYuppie? Does he post here, or where? :confused:[/QUOTE]
He used to post here. Whether he will return remains to be seen.
2005-01-27 02:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=grep14w]I like LF too, but there is a distinct faction there that wants to turn the place into a libertarian Free Republic - one step at a time. Always has been. I admit it though, I'd missed this new "juden-frei" deveopment you discuss.
LF is the intellectual equivalent of a food fight. Sometimes fun, sometimes a waste of time, always messy.
I am glad it exists, even if it is sometimes a waste of time. Agreed
That's true. Another reason why modeling one's organizations on these is unlikely to work in current situations.
Well there's a lot to learn, but agreed, blindly aping is stupid.
There are all sorts of mistakes made here, but the biggest mistake I see is in modeling their rigid anti-democratic character.
Antiparliamenterianism had deep roots in Germany and Italy, and was very respectable. In Weimar Germany you could be a Nazi and hold a very prominent position in society, and many did.
Today's WN by contrast are determined to isolate themselves, and just go out in a ball of fire and glory like Matthews. Well actually just talk like they would, when actually that's all they are is talk.
By some measures, there is a strong WN base of interest. Look at its commercial potential. But compare that with the organizational situation. With apologies to Heritage Lost, there's not a single WN organization today of significant magnitude, and WN's spend most of their time griping about the insignificant ones they do have.
Social organizing - ie, non-politicized bringing of self-aware whites together for social purposes (family, community, etc.) would be far more profitable long term, until conditions change.[/QUOTE] Oh no, sounds like you're even talking about (hush whisper) Church! :lol:
2005-01-27 02:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr] I, for one, challenged him directly and demanded to know where his ultimate loyalties lied [/QUOTE] Oh, knock it off Petr, You were one of whatsisname..fade's biggest ideological supporters.
2005-01-27 02:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]I hope not all your ambitions are so modest.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your concern, but far from it! I just know how to take small steps. These forums are a step below blogs in constituting the framework in which people think--I want to see a shift in the way people think about "politically incorrect" topics. Countering "The Phora" appears to me a good step in that direction. Consider this: now there's less competition for Original Dissent, and your traffic will pick up.
Next on the list: returning Original Dissent to what it was when I joined a few years back...where's wintermute, AntiYuppie, NeoNietzsche...
...as you can see, I'm a very patient man.
2005-01-27 02:52 | User Profile
[QUOTE=PaleoconAvatar]Next on the list: returning Original Dissent to what it was when I joined a few years back...where's wintermute, AntiYuppie, NeoNietzsche...
...as you can see, I'm a very patient man.[/QUOTE]Even Fade? :lol:
But you're here, and not wasting your time with Fade. That's a start.:)
Hopefully though we can get to the point where aspire to do more than posting or blogging. I think that was the big point of disagreement last time, between the ideologues like above and the realists.
I hope people can at least see that, whatever the limitations of active political work, it is more permanent than spending endless time writing posts, especially where they are likely to overnight be erased forever. That's reality - and we need some way to start dealing with it. Talk is a start, but too often, as with Fade, we can see how it by itself is a complete dead end.
2005-01-27 04:58 | User Profile
In the end the only person agreeing with him was Raina.
2005-01-27 04:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=travis]Oh, knock it off Petr, You were one of whatsisname..fade's biggest ideological supporters.[/QUOTE]
Not my impression.
2005-01-27 06:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Even Fade? :lol:
But you're here, and not wasting your time with Fade. That's a start.:)
Hopefully though we can get to the point where aspire to do more than posting or blogging. I think that was the big point of disagreement last time, between the ideologues like above and the realists.
I hope people can at least see that, whatever the limitations of active political work, it is more permanent than spending endless time writing posts, especially where they are likely to overnight be erased forever. That's reality - and we need some way to start dealing with it. Talk is a start, but too often, as with Fade, we can see how it by itself is a complete dead end.[/QUOTE]So FakeTheBitcher flounced off with a huff and phorafags/feebs is no more.
Well, there went some of my better prion-poisoning posts. Banned from VNN/TGMNN, then jewlagged at phorafeebs which croaked from excess of Fake petulance. After all, there went the latest and greatest version of v-bulletin going to waste.
I don't know whether Fake/Fag was just what he seemed, a typical kollidge doofus whigger -- or the feeb was actually something marginally more idiotically pretentious -- a whigger feeb thinking he was a ZOG spy.
So now I'm stuck here on the Original Dissent Embalming Society, so mean that I want to bite somebody and uneasily aware that I could get banned by Okie again.
It's having to even acknowledge that I might have to act nice that is making me break out in a mental rash. Ahhhhhhhrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhh!
I'm beginning to miss the phorafaggery/feebery.
--Martin Lindstedt Turned loose from the phorafag/feeb jewlag
2005-01-27 06:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MartinLindstedt]It's having to even acknowledge that I might have to act nice that is making me break out in a mental rash. Ahhhhhhhrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhh!
I'm beginning to miss the phorafaggery/feebery.
--Martin Lindstedt Turned loose from the phorafag/feeb jewlag[/QUOTE] You had to know in that respect Fade was too good to be true.
But Martin, if it would make you feel any better, I think Tex could set up a sub-forum, accessible only to yourself, (maybe even Klunt too) where you could rave, spit, and gurgle to your hearts content.:lol:
2005-01-27 07:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]It appears that The Phora has been closed down. Anyone know why?
Mercurial perfidy?
2005-01-27 10:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MartinLindstedt]FakeTheBitcher[/QUOTE] :biggrin:
2005-01-27 14:33 | User Profile
[url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7192[/url]
:ninja:
2005-01-27 14:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MartinLindstedt]So FakeTheBitcher flounced off with a huff and phorafags/feebs is no more.
Well, there went some of my better prion-poisoning posts.[/QUOTE]
I never said this on the Phora, but you are truly a disgusting creature.
2005-01-27 16:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=2600][url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7192[/url] [/QUOTE] I think Fade might be trying to tell you something Il Ragno. I can't quite put my finger on it though...
2005-01-27 17:21 | User Profile
I hope JAT posts here-I want an answer to the riddle he posed in the Lounge, damn it!
-My view on the Phora:
I posted on the Phora for quite some time, but was never really a regular poster (posted as Dvl when it was still 'Freedom Forums', then as 2600/sVR on the Lyceum/Phora).
Fade is a good guy and there's no doubting his intelligence (although, il ragno did really hit the nail on the head when he said "If Wikipedia offered a Rhodes Scholarship, you'd be in England by now"). It would be wrong for me to say, as some have here and on LibertyForum, that he was a loser, faker, etc.
Fade was involved in with the Phora, in its various forms, for over four years. That is enough time to wear anyone out-especially when you have to deal with cranks from the right, like Martin Lindstedt, and from the left, like Ixabert.
I think Fade's disgust with 'WN' came about because he was tired of the Internet and the personalities on it in general. Although I agree with him that those who call themselves 'White Nationalists' have a disproportionate share of freaks, losers and psychopaths, I could not agree with many of the stances he took (support for American hegemony, feting Churchill, FDR, Wilson). And I still don't know why he tolerated people like Raina and Carrigan-obsessive, petty and as every bit deluded as Marty L.
That said, I wish Fade well in his future pursuits.
And I hope Wintermute starts posting here again.
:thumbsup:
2005-01-27 17:50 | User Profile
I split off the running US vs. Europe cultural / demographic discussion into its own thread here:
[url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16457[/url]
I thought this interesting topic should develop separately from the Phora discussion.
2005-01-27 18:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE][url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=7192[/url]
I think Fade might be trying to tell you something Il Ragno. I can't quite put my finger on it though...[/QUOTE]
So now he's Fade the Raina, with a zillion Il Ragno sigs to clutch to his breast until the end of time. Big deal.
Yanking the plug and leaving the people who'd posted to his board high and dry was bush, petulant nonsense - as I said. If it [I]wasn't[/I], he wouldn't've re-opened the board to allow people an opportunity to save whatever threads they wished to - as I'd chided him to do, right here, yesterday.
And given the sheer [I]number [/I] of Phorans who saw him as both budding neo and naked opportunist (we're talking dozens here, btw) I'm frankly touched that his final farewell should be so obsessed with [I]moi[/I]. The only thing missing was a reference to "Ill Fagno"!
Note to His Butcherness: what did you [U]expect[/U] when you back up the truck in the dead of night with no advance notice?....A gold watch? A gala at the Kennedy Center?
PS: way to go, reading - and posting - PMs. Truly the mark of a scuttling, crawling invertebrate. Now [B]this [/B] surprised me. I always figured that somewhere in that morass of Southern Nobility you fronted on us, there might have been a core of decency... but The Man Who Is Not And Never Was A Neoconservative puts on a practical demonstration of the Applied Uses Of The Patriot Act that would leave Chertoff and Ashcroft open-mouthed with envy.
Instead, like the Statist Jews and Zionist Tools you worship in the debased cathedral in your soul, your "decency" begins only [I]after [/I] you've finished ransacking your membership's private diaries, bedroom night-tables, and the coffee-grinds in their trashcans. Hope you managed not to cum in your pants while reading Edana and Starr's PMs there, hoss.
However, [I]let the record show [/I] that I pleaded with you [B]not [/B] to reveal your real name and address, and at no point in the months following have I divulged that information, either in PMs, private email or on other phora. And - as disgusted as I am with you - [I]let the record show [/I] I still won't. But make no mistake, Fade the Raina: it isn't because you don't [U]deserve[/U] to get as good as you gave, but because doing so would debase [I]me[/I]. Following your example would soil me - soil anyone - irrevocably.
Get it? One may be a "Nazi", one may be a "Jihadist" or "anti-Semite" or "conspiracy nut" and yet retain his credibility and good name. [I]But one cannot be "Fade the Butcher" and do so. [/I] One day, maybe, you'll actually do a day's work somewhere and understand why this is so, though the odds are 10-1 against on the one, and 20-1 on the other.
One other thing. [I]Let the record show [/I] I initiated [B]NO [/B] PMs at the Phora. Every scrap you posted was written in response to [I]another member's contacting [B]me[/B].[/I]
Stir [I]that [/I] into your herbal tea next time you're on the back nine, babe.
Jeez. Wintermute tried to warn me you weren't human; I must sheepishly now pony up the five bucks he bet me that I'd learn this simple truth the hard way over time. But the fact that now [I]the whole world knows you aren't [/I] takes some of the sting out of losing the sawbuck.
2005-01-27 20:23 | User Profile
The board is down again, so whatever farewell message Fade left is gone. Did Fade reveal personal information, il ragno? If he did that was truly vile.
2005-01-27 20:27 | User Profile
Speaking only for myself, I would say that I gained a great deal of clarity on the day I realized that I'm not in the WN movment, whatever that is.
I'm within the broader Jesus movement, and more particularly in the Traditionalist Catholic wing of that movement.
Traditional Christianity has a very strong nationalist component. We believe that God divided mankind into nations after the Flood as a salutory check on our fallen pride. Nations in turn are defined by the indicia of blood/race, language/culture, and territorial sovereignty (to one degree or another). We concomitantly believe that the drive for Empire - the desire to amalgamate mankind into a dishwater brown - is the very Sin of Babel itself. It is the desire to make man God, the very stuff of idolatry, the first of all sins.
Every generation produces its heresies, and it just happens that in our generation this nationalist aspect of Christianity is under general attack, especially in the traditional churches. No good Christian can ignore this, and buckle under the pressure to conform to today's Big Lie about the nonexistence of race and the unimportance of the collective beings we call the nations.
But I think we Christians should keep in mind always that this is just another fight for orthodoxy. This isn't a fight for the white race or whatever, at least at bottom. It is a fight for the purity of our Holy Faith.
So, I'm not in any movement that places the white race or any subset thereof as it's ultimate value. I'm a Christian, and that means working to create a Christian society in which Christ is King the King of Kings who rules all of the nations. That means putting the Word of God first, before any of our Enlightenment platitudes about democracy and equality. And in particular in our day that means putting forth the nationalist program forthrightly and without apology, since it is Christian orthodoxy.
I gained a good deal of internal peace when I realized that I'm simply not in the same movement as the VNN types and the other WN what-have-yous. Our spheres intersect on the nationalist issue now, but we're not of the same Body. And I don't mean that in a bad way, it's just a statement of fact.
So, I suggest that we use this latest tempest in a teapot to reflect on exactly what movement we're in, and get real clear with ourselves and others about that.
I think that upon a little reflection it's clear why the WN movement never seems to get anywhere: it's because there just ain't no such thing. There are only irreconicalable religions jockeying for position against each other even as they mask their intentions behind friendly talk of a big tent movement.
I mean this without rancor, but I do think this latest nonevent serves to prove my point of the futility of being all things to all people.
2005-01-27 21:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE]The board is down again, so whatever farewell message Fade left is gone. Did Fade reveal personal information, il ragno? If he did that was truly vile.[/QUOTE]
He went into every PM I ever sent - and presumably, the PMs of anyone who'd ever written me one - and posted their contents in his Farewell Message. I'm not surprised he's now kiboshed the whole thing, as people aren't stupid and can do the math required to dope out that he'd been reading their private comments.
That he did it to me, however reprehensible the act is, is surprising but not shocking - I'd been sparring with him for some time, after all. But that he did this to longtime Phorans who'd considered him a friend is...well, you said it yourself....[I]vile[/I].
Here's a funny tidbit that should underline the difference between me and him. I was made a moderator there in the midst of a pitched battle with Raina, whom I despise worse than liver and onions. My very first post to the Moderator's Forum was this: "Now that I finally have the power to make Raina disappear, [U]I have this damned ethical responsibility [I]not [/I] to![/U]" followed by some flip remark about the ironic vagaries of Fate.
And, my distaste for her notwithstanding, I never once edited/banned/impeded her in any manner. The idea of maybe looking into her private-messages for my own delectation was so utterly abhorrent it never once even [I]occurred [/I] to me.
[QUOTE]I'm not in the WN movment, whatever that is.
I'm within the broader Jesus movement, and more particularly in the Traditionalist Catholic wing of that movement.[/QUOTE] You're [I]kidding![/I]....really? I had no idea.
[QUOTE]I suggest that we use this latest tempest in a teapot to reflect on exactly what movement we're in, and get real clear with ourselves and others about that. I think that upon a little reflection it's clear why the WN movement never seems to get anywhere: it's because there just ain't no such thing. [/QUOTE] Walter, this tempest is more akin to what Tex and Okie and AY and the other ex-Freepers went through upon reaching the Point of No Return with the JimRob bunch. It's just another message-board squabble.
While I'm grateful for Tex allotting me the opportunity to vent, there is a time to hand out tract literature, and then there are times when it's an annoyance utterly beside the point. I mean, it seems like Tex asks the exiles to return, and five minutes after they warily put one foot in the door, you're [I]right back [/I] in your Oliver Cromwell get-up, demanding the heathens be driven out and run to ground. Would you guys kindly make up your minds? This "Christian Taliban" bit is getting old already, particularly when you time it to begin the moment the bell over the front door tinkles the announcvement of old regulars and new lurkers stopping by.
Your efforts would be better served arguing doctrine with Lindstedt,anyway, who [I]also[/I] wants untold millions to die, but who differs with you on methodology.
2005-01-27 21:34 | User Profile
[B][I] - "This "Christian Taliban" bit is getting old already, particularly when you time it to begin the moment the bell over the front door tinkles the announcvement of old regulars and new lurkers stopping by."[/I][/B]
Save us from your boring ACLU stereotypes and condescension.
Petr
2005-01-27 21:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Save us from your boring ACLU stereotypes.[/QUOTE]
Stereotype? ACLU? Maybe you'd best get your nose out of that hymnal, Petr: "Christian Taliban" was [I]Walter's own description [/I] for his 'movement', and he brandished it to all and sundry here [U]completely under his own power[/U].
But it's nice to see that if he ever does get the CT off the ground, he's got at least [I]one [/I] Opus Dei chapter, in Finland, raring to go.
2005-01-27 21:54 | User Profile
[QUOTE=PaleoconAvatar]In some ways, my mission was accomplished today. I began posting at the Phora a few weeks ago after leaving the Internet world for a few months, and discovering that Fade had basically become a cheerleader for the Empire. My goal was to serve as an opponent of Fade, poking holes in his academic pretensions since I myself had actually been where Fade's headed (grad school). My secondary goal was to lure Fade back to the "dark side" that he'd been at a few months beforehand, if possible.
I will miss asking him the question: "why were Richard Nixon and Billy Graham whispering in the Oval Office about how they can't talk in public about Jewish influence in the media, as demonstrated on the tapes released on the nightly news a year or so ago?" I'd whip that question out whenever Fade insisted it was an empty "conspiracy theory" to talk about Jews and the media. I'd also ask why Billy Graham fell all over himself apologizing for what he was caught saying in the '70s. He never answered it head on....[/QUOTE] Did you ever read him actually say "it is an empty conspiracy theory to talk about Jews and the media?" That would come as quite a surprise to me. It's an issue he's addressed countless times, several after his "conversion" as well, and this is far from any position I've seen him take. In fact, I think he's addressed that very (Billy Graham and Richard Nixon) event in the past. He acknowledges full well the Jewish role in American culture corruption, and never renounced his views in that area as far as I know. Those are simply matters of fact. His position is simply that Jewish behaviour should not be the prime or even major focus for racialists in remedying their situation, and that is an eminently reasonable one.
2005-01-27 21:58 | User Profile
Before he went overboard to the other extreme, Fade really made a point on how some hysterical WNs exaggerate the power of the Jews, practically raising them to the level of some invincible Cthulhu-gods.
Petr
2005-01-27 22:15 | User Profile
FadetheButcher was and is some rich kid chump who fancies himself a profound intellect. This kid never had an original idea in his four year "career" as an internet gadfly, and I think that he is quite unstable. I remember when he used to post obsessively on WN sites and call for the "vertical expulsion" of Jews...a week later, he was an Anglophile who was singing the praises of Lothrop Stoddard and Cecil Rhodes...days after that, he was rambling about the preeminence of "aesthetics".
Let's face it...the guy is a jackoff whose entire frame of reference begins and ends with his own ass...and he's a degenerate, work-shy academic. The reason why clowns like Fade "tolerate" the likes of pervos and freaks like Raina and Carrigan is because they are all peas of a pod: Socially inept, work-shy, delicate people who compensate for the real and percieved disdain that they undoubtedly endure with bombast and faux-confidence regarding their "intellectual superiority".
I'd like to send a big Thomas777 F*ck you out to FadetheButcher.:thumbsup:
2005-01-27 22:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Did you ever read him actually say "it is an empty conspiracy theory to talk about Jews and the media?" That would come as quite a surprise to me. [/QUOTE]
From this morning's now-inaccessible Kissoff Message:
[QUOTE]Why can't the racialist movement succeed?
Itz the Jews! Itz the Jews! Itz the Jews!
No. Its not the Jews. That is a cop out. No vast conspiracy is
necessary to explain this. Its the fact that most racialists (in
"the movement") have little in common with the people they are
attempting to reach out to. What is simply self evident to people
like myself, Sulla, Patrick or millions of other people is a
profound mystery to the madrussians and Zoroasters of the world.
What is the saddest thing about the racialism today in your view? To me it is the fact that the ****ing Jews have more regard for the well being of myself and my neighbors than millions of white people in this world. The Negro soldier in Iraq today has more regard for his fellow citizens than Alex Linder or il ragno does. I can get along better with the god damn Mexican at the local gas station than many of the people in 'the movement' today. The Negro crack addict who knocks on your door at 1 AM in the morning to sell you stain remover is in closer contact with reality than they are. This is a fact that is not lost on the average citizen in our country today. I mean, its not like you can tell people to go to hell and then expect them to look kindly upon you. One of the most ironic things about all of this is the tendency of movement types to denigrate their contemporaries as lemmings. Yet these are the people have no common sense whatsoever. What do I have in common with many of these people, aside from the fact that I am white? Nothing really. [/QUOTE]
2005-01-27 22:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=grep14w]The current tempest in a teacup over there is "Liberty Station", an invitation only subforum at LF designed to have a discussion forum free from any taint of "the Jewish question" - in other words, the usual suspects are trying to recreate FR, having forgotten why they came to LF in the first place.[/QUOTE]There's been a lot of comedy in this -- trolls crying in their beer about being the "orphans of Liberty Forum," the chosen ones showing off their superiority and making asses of themselves . But seeing the bad feelings this has stirred up, I think LF just hit the iceberg.
2005-01-28 00:35 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]From this morning's now-inaccessible Kissoff Message:[/QUOTE] Yeah, I read it. He makes good points. But he does not allege that "it is an empty conspiracy theory to talk about Jews and the media."
2005-01-28 00:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Thomas777]FadetheButcher was and is some rich kid chump who fancies himself a profound intellect. This kid never had an original idea in his four year "career" as an internet gadfly, and I think that he is quite unstable. I remember when he used to post obsessively on WN sites and call for the "vertical expulsion" of Jews...a week later, he was an Anglophile who was singing the praises of Lothrop Stoddard and Cecil Rhodes...days after that, he was rambling about the preeminence of "aesthetics".
Yeah.. nothing like talking about more than one thing at different periods of time to discredit a person.
Let's face it...the guy is a jackoff whose entire frame of reference begins and ends with his own ass...and he's a degenerate, work-shy academic. The reason why clowns like Fade "tolerate" the likes of pervos and freaks like Raina and Carrigan is because they are all peas of a pod: Socially inept, work-shy, delicate people who compensate for the real and percieved disdain that they undoubtedly endure with bombast and faux-confidence regarding their "intellectual superiority".
I'd like to send a big Thomas777 F*ck you out to FadetheButcher.:thumbsup:[/QUOTE] You people are crazy. The Raina/Carrigan situation has been explained dozens of times but you refuse to listen. Fade banned them several months ago, he's never tolerated them. It was AntiYuppie who decided it was best to tolerate them in order to avoid further spam attacks on the website. That was the right decision. Most of us learned to tune them out.. it wasn't a big deal.
2005-01-28 00:42 | User Profile
Fade also wrote that il ragno had gotten pretty personal against his family and its dealings, which he says was the final drop in the bucket.
Petr
2005-01-28 00:52 | User Profile
[quote=FadeTheButcher]That is why I closed down The Phora in a nutshell. I have better things to do than to waste my time subsidizing a home on the internet for idiots, cranks, trolls, and hecklers (no offense to the otherwise normal and rational people on The Phora, they know who they are). Its one thing to disagree with someone or criticize them on some point or another. Reasonable people can disagree and get along just fine. It is quite another to systematically engage in character assassination, to consciously spread outright lies, to take advantage of the privileges one is afforded to slander someone behind his back, to attack others for who they are as opposed to what they do, to use other people like a parasite in order to injure them and the community at large -- in summa -- to troll. One could really expect nothing else from il ragno. Its all he is capable of really. Its all he does. He is simply a crude propagandist, a muckracker from the fringes of society who slanders people. That is the VNN way, after all.
But it is in many ways my own fault. It was I who insisted upon treating others with fairness and consideration. I was the one who took these people in and let them have their say, even when I knew beforehand that they were coming to my forum in ill will.
Cant say I blame him.
2005-01-28 01:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Yeah.. nothing like talking about more than one thing at different periods of time to discredit a person.[/QUOTE]Well that's a mischaracterization now isn't it? I wonder about a guy's stability who one one day is posting about his desire to see Jews exterminated and the next day is maligning "racists" for defending the Third Reich and singing the praises of American imperialism overseas.
[QUOTE]You people are crazy.[/QUOTE]I don't think so. [QUOTE]The Raina/Carrigan situation has been explained dozens of times but you refuse to listen.[/QUOTE]I did listen. I just began to question the propriety of FadetheButcher's newfound appreciation for the Raina/Carrigan faction and his simultaneous disdain for Il Ragno. Furthermore, its a bit hard to take a guy seriously who goes (in a span of months) from singing the praises of the NSDAP to quoting Noam Chomsky and claiming that he never made statements that he quite clearly did make only weeks before. [QUOTE]Fade banned them several months ago, he's never tolerated them. It was AntiYuppie who decided it was best to tolerate them in order to avoid further spam attacks on the website. That was the right decision. Most of us learned to tune them out.. it wasn't a big deal.[/QUOTE]Its not a "big deal"...it just is demonstrative of the fact that the lonesome weirdo known in cyberspace as "FadetheButcher" is a very strange and apparently unstable guy.
At one time, I thought Fade had an agenda, but I subsequently decided that he's just really, really "off".
2005-01-28 01:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Prince]Cant say I blame him.[/QUOTE] Hardnosed debating gets ugly on the internet and in real life. There is no reason for FadetheButcher to act like a 7th Grade girl who has been denied a seat at the head of the "cool girls'" lunch table.
Its pretty simple: If you are going to expose yourself to criticism by promoting controversial views, take such criticism like a man and not like a little bitch.
2005-01-28 01:14 | User Profile
[quote=Thomas777]Well that's a mischaracterization now isn't it? I wonder about a guy's stability who one one day is posting about his desire to see Jews exterminated and the next day is maligning "racists" for defending the Third Reich and singing the praises of American imperialism overseas.
Why? He changed his philosophy, and in accordance with it he could no longer justify certain positions. That is a rational transformation.
I did listen. I just began to question the propriety of FadetheButcher's newfound appreciation for the Raina/Carrigan faction and his simultaneous disdain for Il Ragno. Furthermore, its a bit hard to take a guy seriously who goes (in a span of months) from singing the praises of the NSDAP to quoting Noam Chomsky and claiming that he never made statements that he quite clearly did make only weeks before.
Uhh. What appreciation for the Raina/Carrigan faction are you talking about. And what statements does he claim he never made? FWIW, he was quoting Chomsky before he ever sang the praises of the NSDAP, and during as well. I don't see what's so scandalous about that, Chomsky has written a lot and his views were relevant to much of the popular discussion topics at the Phora.
Its not a "big deal"...it just is demonstrative of the fact that the lonesome weirdo known in cyberspace as "FadetheButcher" is a very strange and apparently unstable guy.
At one time, I thought Fade had an agenda, but I subsequently decided that he's just really, really "off".
Ok........
2005-01-28 01:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Fade also wrote that il ragno had gotten pretty personal against his family and its dealings, which he says was the final drop in the bucket.[/QUOTE]
That is, of course, a lie, but coming from Fade, nothing should be a surprise by this point.
It was [B]Fade [/B] who publicized his identity and address. It was [B]Fade [/B] who dragged out his grandfather to display to strangers - quoting extensively from biographies, posting photos, brandishing the man as a club with which to win arguments with, a truly despicable act. You weren't a moderator there, Petr, thus you did not have access to the several times [I]I urged him to delete references to his identity and his family before it boomeranged on him[/I] on the Moderator's Board. The idiot was determined to leave himself vulnerable to the Rainas of the Internet just to win an argument- with [I]Martin Lindstedt,[/I] of all people!
Once he did all these things, the rest is on [I]his [/I] head. How do you blame anyone but yourself for opening Pandora's Box? Yet Fade always finds a way...just as he always manages to turn criticism levied at himself, and only himself, into An Attack On The American Way.
That he would [I]then [/I] tell you that I would make this "personal against his family" should demonstrate the kind of a weasel he is. Before he decides to use his relative as a combination human shield-battering ram, he ought to think long and hard about the disgust and disappointment that relative would have felt for him last year, as an Internet Nazi whose most famous proclamation had been, thus far, [B]"I detest the old windbags known collectively today as the so-called "Greatest Generation." What precisely is so "great" about the "Greatest Generation" again? Perhaps you can remind me. I actually cannot decide which generation is more worthless, you old farts and your sucking up to the Jews that gave us Israel or your beatnik children with their stupid equality theories who are creating a third world America."[/B]
2005-01-28 01:27 | User Profile
Personally I think his views just became more moderate. His late emphasis on American patriotism rather than Racialism. Thats fine as far as I'm concerned but some people cant forgive him for that. Criticism is one thing, hate is another.
2005-01-28 01:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Why? He changed his philosophy, and in accordance with it he could no longer justify certain positions. That is a rational transformation.[/QUOTE]No, its not a rational transformation. At one time, I thought that America's adventurism in the Middle East benefitted American national security...I subsequently changed my mind after certain events unfolded that proved catastrophic to our country. THAT is a rational transformation. In the span of months (literally) to go from praising Nazi Germany to reinventing one's self as a neo-Conservative type "superpatriot" and in between advancing the arguments of old fossil Trotskyites like Noam Chomsky is just bizarre and unstable behavior. In fact, in brings to mind the antics of Bill White.
[QUOTE]Uhh. What appreciation for the Raina/Carrigan faction are you talking about.[/QUOTE]Well, Fade's attack on Wintermute for calling the little trollops names comes to mind...
[QUOTE]And what statements does he claim he never made? [/QUOTE]He claimed on VNN that he would "have no problem with eliminating the Jews himself" in one of his more schizophrenic moments about a month ago. He subsequently denied it, but I'm sure Alex Linder will produce it if you asked him nicely. [QUOTE]FWIW, he was quoting Chomsky before he ever sang the praises of the NSDAP, and during as well. I don't see what's so scandalous about that, Chomsky has written a lot and his views were relevant to much of the popular discussion topics at the Phora.[/QUOTE]Look, I think that the guy is a f*cking jackass...if you dig his ideas and the loopy internet coffee houses that he creates, then by all means keep doing what you're doing.
2005-01-28 02:18 | User Profile
[quote=Thomas777]No, its not a rational transformation. At one time, I thought that America's adventurism in the Middle East benefitted American national security...I subsequently changed my mind after certain events unfolded that proved catastrophic to our country. THAT is a rational transformation.
An example of one, so what? Are you going to explain how his was any less so?
In the span of months (literally) to go from praising Nazi Germany to reinventing one's self as a neo-Conservative type "superpatriot" and in between advancing the arguments of old fossil Trotskyites like Noam Chomsky is just bizarre and unstable behavior. In fact, in brings to mind the antics of Bill White.
How so? And why does it matter that Chomsky is a Troyskyite if he is correct in some analysis?
2005-01-28 02:26 | User Profile
What silliness...
The Phora is no more.
[QUOTE]vBulletin Message
Its been swell, folks. But that's all she wrote. The Phora is officially closed as of 1-26-05. Thank you and . . . goodnight.[/QUOTE]
One can hope Antiyuppie might come back to Original Dissent.
2005-01-28 02:33 | User Profile
[quote=il ragno]That is, of course, a lie, but coming from Fade, nothing should be a surprise by this point..
That he would then tell you that I would make this "personal against his family" should demonstrate the kind of a weasel he is.
He didn't say you dug up any such information, only that you were engaging in character assassination and being a jerk about it in general. That is no lie.
Before he decides to use his relative as a combination human shield-battering ram, he ought to think long and hard about the disgust and disappointment that relative would have felt for him last year, as an Internet Nazi whose most famous proclamation had been, thus far, "I detest the old windbags known collectively today as the so-called "Greatest Generation." What precisely is so "great" about the "Greatest Generation" again? Perhaps you can remind me. I actually cannot decide which generation is more worthless, you old farts and your sucking up to the Jews that gave us Israel or your beatnik children with their stupid equality theories who are creating a third world America."
Why do you keep posting that, what is it supposed to prove? He's gone over it enough times and explained how he has repudiated such statements and that one in particular.
2005-01-28 03:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Luh_Windan]Why? He changed his philosophy, and in accordance with it he could no longer justify certain positions. That is a rational transformation.
Uhh. What appreciation for the Raina/Carrigan faction are you talking about. And what statements does he claim he never made? FWIW, he was quoting Chomsky before he ever sang the praises of the NSDAP, and during as well. I don't see what's so scandalous about that, Chomsky has written a lot and his views were relevant to much of the popular discussion topics at the Phora.
Ok........[/QUOTE]
Well, changing one's philosophy to become a 'patriotic conservative' is one thing. But singing the praises of FDR is something else entirely. When Fade did that just recently, I knew that, ideologically speaking, he had gone quite far in the other direction. I mean, I know of no one who likes FDR. How [I]anyone [/I] can defend FDR is beyond me. Ditto Churchill.
[edited]
2005-01-28 04:53 | User Profile
FadetheButcher (or simply Wikipedophile, as I prefer to call him) had a really nice anti-White site going toward the end, hence it's too bad he decided to finally pull the plug on it. I don't know where all the annoying trolls and vacuous teenagers will go now that they've been rendered homeless by FadetheButcher's latest pique.
Going from "I love Heinrich Himmler to bits" to "JonahGoldbergRox!" in the space of a few weeks is a wonderful achievement and only serves to illustrate FadetheButcher's admirable intellectual flexibility and openness to new, fresh ideas. Only a stupid dogmatist would object or find fault with such an impressive versatility and willingness to change "in the face of new evidence" -- as he so eloquently puts it.
I don't know what the fuss is about.
There's little doubt that the marvelously pliant 24 year-old inhabitant of rural Alabama (soon to have an undergraduate degree in the very demanding field of...political science!!!) has a brilliant political career in front of him in city politics.
2005-01-28 05:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=friedrich braun]There's little doubt that the marvelously pliant 24 year-old inhabitant of rural Alabama (soon to have an undergraduate degree in the very demanding field of...political science!!!) has a brilliant political career in front of him in city politics.[/QUOTE]I don't think so. You may remember him as an "anti-white activist", but I [I]don't think [/I] that's what 99.99% of any of his political rivals who know anything about his Phoran past will.
2005-01-28 05:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE]While I'm grateful for Tex allotting me the opportunity to vent, there is a time to hand out tract literature, and then there are times when it's an annoyance utterly beside the point. I mean, it seems like Tex asks the exiles to return, and five minutes after they warily put one foot in the door, you're [I]right back [/I] in your Oliver Cromwell get-up, demanding the heathens be driven out and run to ground. Would you guys kindly make up your minds? [/QUOTE]
Tex and I don't speak for each other. We disagree on a number of things, including I think about my pessimism about working with non-Christians.
But it's Tex's board, so whatever he says goes around here.
You'll have to work this out with him.
2005-01-28 05:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]You had to know in that respect Fade was too good to be true.
But Martin, if it would make you feel any better, I think Tex could set up a sub-forum, accessible only to yourself, (maybe even Klunt too) where you could rave, spit, and gurgle to your hearts content.:lol:[/QUOTE]Klunt doesn't like manly attentions like she used to since she run off with Downey, gained a few hundred pounds, and a pasturdessship.
My own complete Original Dissent Embalming Society jewlag. That'd be great. But allow some phorafags/feebs who like a little 'mental' pain to drop in to be mauled by the resident mad dog.
--Martin 'Mad Dog' Lindstedt (political nom de guerre) [url="http://www.martinlindstedt.org/"]www.martinlindstedt.org[/url]
2005-01-28 06:46 | User Profile
I agree with Luh_Windan. Fade was not a Neocon, and The Phora was not a neocon board. It was a free-speech all purpose forum that just happened to have a white American running it, who happened to be very well versed in politics and philosophy, whose politics and philosophy both varied but generally orientated around preserving and advancing Western civilization and its native (i.e. white, West European descended) peoples, which then finally stabilised around the preservation and advancement of Anglo Saxon civilization.
[QUOTE]So, did Fade suddenly get cold feet and realize he was going to have zero chance of a career in Academia once people figured out who he was?[/QUOTE]
I doubt it. I think he tried to do exactly what he was saying he was trying to do: mainstreaming white racialism for America. To do that, he had to withdraw from the half-nazified 'white nationalism', and turn towards an Anglophile, nativist, populist, American-centered racialist tradition, which has and does exist independently of the national chauvinism Europe has displayed through history. He turned towards the values which have been traditionally supported and have been part of the identity of white America, including the work ethic, individual rights, civil patriotism etc. He read history and pointed out figures from the history of the English-speaking world that enhanced and advanced the power of the Anglo-Saxon world, and contrasted the values of the English-speaking, Anglo-Saxon world with continental Europe's traditional organic-collectivism, its swift variation in time between national chauvinism (1933-1945) and national masochism (post WWII), its rather shallow believe in individual rights, etc. His view on the Jewish question in relation to the decline of white America is that political Jews are just one element amongst many, and that these 'active groups', even when combined all together under one banner, are not solely responsible for the decline of white America - rather, it takes two to tango.
How so? And why does it matter that Chomsky is a Troyskyite if he is correct in some analysis?
Good point. Thomas777 is relying on the genetic fallacy, that it is rational to condemn an idea based on the character of its creator. Side note: Chomsky is an anarcho-syndicalist, not a Trotskyite.
2005-01-28 07:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Stanley]There's been a lot of comedy in this -- trolls crying in their beer about being the "orphans of Liberty Forum," the chosen ones showing off their superiority and making asses of themselves .
You nailed it
But seeing the bad feelings this has stirred up, I think LF just hit the iceberg.[/QUOTE]
Part of me doesn't really care if it continues or not, but there are also a handful of quality posters there who aren't on OD...or are here rarely, unfortunately. In the last year or so it isn't the tribalists IMO who've dragged LF into the gutter....their flag is firmly planted and you expect what they post.
The conspiratorial (and mostly unlearned) idiots--who can't ever admit they're wrong, or ill-informed--driven there by Rense and Rivero--at this point they can only be called trolls--are the ones who've made the place a s***hole. The irony is if the "orphans" would just STFU and clean up their own acts and post quality articles and engage in quality discussion, OWK and troupe with their triple-super-secret clubhouse for l33t people would simply fade into obscurity, but the trolls are too damn stupid to realize this.
2005-01-28 07:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Anarch]I agree with Luh_Windan. Fade was not a Neocon, and The Phora was not a neocon board. It was a free-speech all purpose forum that just happened to have a white American running it, who happened to be very well versed in politics and philosophy, whose politics and philosophy both varied but generally orientated around preserving and advancing Western civilization and its native (i.e. white, West European descended) peoples, which then finally stabilised around the preservation and advancement of Anglo Saxon civilization.
I doubt it. I think he tried to do exactly what he was saying he was trying to do: mainstreaming white racialism for America. To do that, he had to withdraw from the half-nazified 'white nationalism', and turn towards an Anglophile, nativist, populist, American-centered racialist tradition, which has and does exist independently of the national chauvinism Europe has displayed through history. He turned towards the values which have been traditionally supported and have been part of the identity of white America, including the work ethic, individual rights, civil patriotism etc. He read history and pointed out figures from the history of the English-speaking world that enhanced and advanced the power of the Anglo-Saxon world, and contrasted the values of the English-speaking, Anglo-Saxon world with continental Europe's traditional organic-collectivism, its swift variation in time between national chauvinism (1933-1945) and national masochism (post WWII), its rather shallow believe in individual rights, etc. His view on the Jewish question in relation to the decline of white America is that political Jews are just one element amongst many, and that these 'active groups', even when combined all together under one banner, are not solely responsible for the decline of white America - rather, it takes two to tango.
Good point. Thomas777 is relying on the genetic fallacy, that it is rational to condemn an idea based on the character of its creator. Side note: Chomsky is an anarcho-syndicalist, not a Trotskyite.[/QUOTE]Looks like the phorafags/feebs are migrating to the Original Dissent Embalming Society as refugees, now that FakeTheBitcher took what little was left of his marbles and went home.
Fake was a solipsist, nothing more. I pointed out how anyone with $160 can buy v-bulletin software and run it on a $6 per month server. The cost to Fake: less than the cost per credit hour at some jewnivershitty like Auburn, where Fake said that he went.
So now Fake is gone -- for a little while. Fake'll probably be back, but unless Fake uses his alias, nobody will be able to tell him from any other whigger feeb, like Anarch, another phorafag/feeb refuse-ee.
--Martin Lindstedt
2005-01-28 07:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=2600]I hope JAT posts here-I want an answer to the riddle he posed in the Lounge, damn it! [/QUOTE]Hello. To answer the riddle, no, there has been no positioning discovered so that all squares are unsafe for an opposing piece. The closest anybody has come is 63 squares unsafe.
That was an interesting puzzle; too bad most people missed it. Thanks for the warning on closing the Phora, Fade.
2005-01-28 08:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MartinLindstedt]Looks like the phorafags/feebs are migrating to the Original Dissent Embalming Society as refugees, now that FakeTheBitcher took what little was left of his marbles and went home.
Fake was a solipsist, nothing more. I pointed out how anyone with $160 can buy v-bulletin software and run it on a $6 per month server. The cost to Fake: less than the cost per credit hour at some jewnivershitty like Auburn, where Fake said that he went.
So now Fake is gone -- for a little while. Fake'll probably be back, but unless Fake uses his alias, nobody will be able to tell him from any other whigger feeb, like Anarch, another phorafag/feeb refuse-ee.
--Martin Lindstedt[/QUOTE]
You make me really, really want to support eugenics Martin. What in hell is a feeb? Do you speak English Martin? You know what English is, right? Do you understand what I'm saying?
2005-01-28 08:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=JAT]Hello. To answer the riddle, no, there has been no positioning discovered so that all squares are unsafe for an opposing piece. The closest anybody has come is 63 squares unsafe.
That was an interesting puzzle; too bad most people missed it. Thanks for the warning on closing the Phora, Fade.[/QUOTE]
There was a warning?
2005-01-28 08:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]Tex and I don't speak for each other. We disagree on a number of things, including I think about my pessimism about working with non-Christians.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14763a.htm[/url]
When various Christian denominations establish themselves in any country, the Catholic State can no longer maintain its former exclusive attitude, but is compelled for reasons of State to show tolerance towards the heterodox and to grant them religious freedom within the limits described above and determined by natural law. If religious freedom has been accepted and sworn to as a fundamental law in a constitution, the obligation to show this tolerance is binding on conscience. The Catholic Church recognizes unreservedly the inviolability of constitutions confirmed by oath, of traditional laws, and regular religious compacts, because a breach of the constitution, of allegiance, of a treaty, or of an oath is a grievous sin, and because the Christian moral law prescribes fidelity to the State as an obligation strictly binding in conscience. To justify ethically tolerance towards certain religious practices of heathen subjects, medieval theologians appealed to the principle that tolerance might be always exercised wherever either its refusal would cause more harm than good, or, vice versa, whenever the granting of it ensured greater advantage than disadvantage. Thus St. Thomas teaches (Summa theol., II-II, Q. x, a. 11): "Ritus infidelium tolerari possunt vel propter aliquod bonum, quod ex eis provenit, vel propter aliquod maum, quod vitatur" (Heathen worships can be tolerated either because of some good that results from them or because of some evil that is avoided). In all the centuries the Church displayed an admirable tolerance especially towards the Jewish religion, since the survival of Judaism offered a living proof of the truth of Christianity. The medieval principle of tolerance is specially applicable to present conditions, since the historical development of the modern State has created throughout the world so uniform a basis of rights that even Catholic States cannot without violation of oaths and loyalty and without violent internal convulsions disregard it, even if they desired to do so. Besides, there is good reason to doubt if there still exists a purely Catholic State in the world; and it is, of course, just as doubtful whether there is such a thing as a purely Protestant State. Cosmopolites have established colonies and settlements everywhere, and to these international law concedes freedom of belief and worship. Consequently, Leo XIII also supported the principle of tolerance, when he declared (cf. Denzinger, n. 1874): "Revera si divini cultus varia genera eodem jure esse quo veram religionem Ecclesia judicat non licere, non ideo tamen damnat rerum publicarum moderatores, qui magni alicujus adipiscendi boni aut prohibendi causa mali moribus atque usu patienter ferunt, ut ea habeant singula in civitate locum" (If the Church declares that the various kinds of worship should not have the same rights as the true religion, she does not thereby condemn those rulers who, in order to secure some great good or to avert some evil, permit each cult to exist).
2005-01-28 08:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MartinLindstedt]Original Dissent Embalming Society
I'm not sure exactly why, but this is a very effective burn on us....
2005-01-28 09:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident][url]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14763a.htm[/url]
When various Christian denominations establish themselves in any country, the Catholic State can no longer maintain its former exclusive attitude, but is compelled for reasons of State to show tolerance towards the heterodox and to grant them religious freedom within the limits described above and determined by natural law. .. snip . . .condemn those rulers who, in order to secure some great good or to avert some evil, permit each cult to exist).[/QUOTE]
Nice quote, Tex, but I don't catch your drift.
2005-01-28 09:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE]He acknowledges full well the Jewish role in American culture corruption, and never renounced his views in that area as far as I know. Those are simply matters of fact.[/QUOTE]
Are they? In a way, it's a shame the archives have been swept into the dustbin, otherwise I would ask you to show me one thread - [B]one post even [/B] - that Fade had initiated in the past 6 months in which he was critical of either Geo W Bush, the Zionists, or the War in Iraq.
Never happened. He spent 100% of his time posting hero-worship material on FDR & Churchill; scare-propaganda on how Evil was born in France (its parents were a decadent pastry-chef and a diseased street mime); and gung-ho justifications of the current WW4. Then he'd spin around like a top to remind us all that he was no neo, disliked Bush and abhorred FoxNews.
If his notion was to reach out to the fence-sitters by seconding everything they were already being told by Rush Limbaugh and Jonah Goldberg...well...[I]mission accomplished[/I].
Oddly, though, he reminded those fence-sitters (and everyone else) of nothing so much as another sh!t-talking politician, telling that day's focus group whatever they wanted to hear, regardless if that meant he was contradicting what he'd told the last focus-group the day before. Nobody knew what the guy [I]actually believed [/I] in his heart of hearts; inevitably, his frequent changes of wardrobe had become a standing joke among even his dwindling base of supporters.
Luh, let me ask YOU a question. If I was an unquestionable jerk, and Fade an honest man beset by rogues - why in the world did you [I]never post a comment saying so [/I] in the past 3 or 4 months that I was there?
[QUOTE]He's gone over it enough times and explained how he has repudiated such statements and that one in particular. Why do you keep posting that, what is it supposed to prove? [/QUOTE]
Take a wild guess. It involves [a] glass houses, and ** stones.
2005-01-28 12:03 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Take a wild guess. It involves [a] glass houses, and ** stones.[/QUOTE]
LOL!
2005-01-28 14:23 | User Profile
[B]some jewnivershitty like Auburn[/B]
The very prestigious University of Auburn in Alabama doesn't strike me as crawling with the Special People to the same extent as Harvard or Yale, for e.g.
2005-01-28 14:45 | User Profile
Why has Kevin O'Keefe been banned? Not for that "Original Dissent Embalming Society" crack, I hope.
After all, the fellow who [I]coined [/I] it in the first place - and sundry other wolf-howls of disdain - is still free to post here.
2005-01-28 15:06 | User Profile
[B]he's a degenerate, work-shy academic[/B]
I'd argue that he's just a 24 year-old young man who just finished his studies in political science at the University of Auburn in Alabama (and at the age of 24 it doesn't strike me as especially precocious, the opposite is actually true). I don't believe that holding such a rather pedestrian degree from a modest school out in irrelevant American boondocks qualifies one to hold the lofty title of "academic" or opens any doors for him in either academia or politics. Who in Europe has ever heard of the University of Auburn? Better yet, who outside of rural Alabama has ever heard of it? Itââ¬â¢s a third-rate nothing place; and his degree is worth about as much as a degree from one of those bogus diploma-mills. He's just a work-shy Internet addict with much too much free time on his hands who fancies himself as some kind of an intellectual, but in reality his sophistry, egomania, instability, dishonesty, and obvious intellectual immaturity proved his inevitable downfall. Following so many quick and drastic 180 degree ideological changes he had no credibility with anyone, and no following whatsoever. Besides one or two teenagers who changed directions or ââ¬Åphilosophiesââ¬Â as often as FadeTheButcher, he had no base and no appeal. Finally, after wasting 4 years running a board he had nothing to show for and ended his career as an ignominious laughingstock. Plagiarizing the concept of ââ¬Åracial communitarianismââ¬Â from the French New Right, while holding in affected elitist disdain middle class and lower-middle class White American racialists --ââ¬ÅWhite trashââ¬Â as he charmingly said again and again -- didnââ¬â¢t appear to be a successful strategy to attract the disenfranchised and dispossessed White masses.
But letââ¬â¢s look at FadeTheButcher, what has he ever achieved in life? What are his accomplishments? Nothing, zero, nada, zilch. The fact that he has money is the only thing he can point to. And that money he owes to his family and not to his own merit or hard work.
2005-01-28 15:28 | User Profile
Il Ragno,
Apparently, he posted some personal information about Fade. He'll be back shortly.
2005-01-28 15:37 | User Profile
Thanks, Sert.
Leave us all take the high road here in this matter and hold ourselves to a higher standard. Whatever your opinion on Fade the Butcher, regardless that he helped dig his own grave here.....let's leave his identity and [I]specific [/I] personal info out of this as much as possible.
Granted it's difficult when he insists on [I]making [/I] it an issue, but try and keep the details vague enough to blur the breadcrumb trail. There are all kind of nuts on the Internet, and not all of them are harmless.
2005-01-28 15:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=friedrich braun]Better yet, who outside of rural Alabama has ever heard of it?[/QUOTE]
You're kidding, fb? Right?
Auburn is Charles Barkley's alma mater.
Personally, I come from a long line of Crimson Tide true believers that still revere St. Paul Bryant, so we hate Auburn with a passion, but have certainly heard of it, sure.
2005-01-28 15:41 | User Profile
[quote=il ragno]Are they? In a way, it's a shame the archives have been swept into the dustbin, otherwise I would ask you to show me one thread - one post even - that Fade had initiated in the past 6 months in which he was critical of either Geo W Bush, the Zionists, or the War in Iraq.
That would not be a difficult task, there were dozens of such discussions. Anarch can testify to that I'm sure. It was covered, and since the Phora had not really grown outward in membership very much at that point, it had been covered over the years among mostly the same people as well.
Never happened. He spent 100% of his time posting hero-worship material on FDR & Churchill; scare-propaganda on how Evil was born in France (its parents were a decadent pastry-chef and a diseased street mime); and gung-ho justifications of the current WW4. Then he'd spin around like a top to remind us all that he was no neo, disliked Bush and abhorred FoxNews.
If his notion was to reach out to the fence-sitters by seconding everything they were already being told by Rush Limbaugh and Jonah Goldberg...well...mission accomplished.
Oddly, though, he reminded those fence-sitters (and everyone else) of nothing so much as another sh!t-talking politician, telling that day's focus group whatever they wanted to hear, regardless if that meant he was contradicting what he'd told the last focus-group the day before. Nobody knew what the guy actually believed in his heart of hearts; inevitably, his frequent changes of wardrobe had become a standing joke among even his dwindling base of supporters.
You don't think he presented any decent arguments about FDR or Churchill? FDR is pretty well removed from my field of knowledge, but I think he covered Churchill quite well, and silenced his detractors on a number of issues. As for Jonah Goldberg, I take it this reference is the result of an essay he posted to help explain his theory about Jews in general caring more for his America than the white nationalists- or whatever. That was a valid theory that deserves to be critiqued on its merits. Not exactly a fair reference there on your part, kind of along the lines of Thomas777's attempt to discredit him because he once posted some Chomsky article.
Take a wild guess. It involves [a] glass houses, and ** stones.
I assume you're talking about comments he made about you in his closing statements. If so, the metaphor applies better in the opposite direction, don't you think... You'd been attacking him for such past actions and repudiated comments (that very quote you posted here included) before he launched any kind of personal attack against you. Isn't that true?
Luh, let me ask YOU a question. If I was an unquestionable jerk, and Fade an honest man beset by rogues - why in the world did you never post a comment saying so in the past 3 or 4 months that I was there?
Wasn't my place to really, as more of a passive background member I rarely got involved in such matters.. and I didn't have any idea he was this deep seeded in apathy, and not simply pissed off with a few internet people.
2005-01-28 16:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE]That would not be difficult task, there were dozens of such discussions. [/QUOTE]
If there were, they all preceded his now-famous Change of Heart. I certainly am aware of only one that barely fits under the umbrella; a one-word comment he made in response to an article I posted re the Wm Donahue-Shmuely Boteach donnybrook on MSNBC (I recall his remark was "Agreed".) Insofar as threads he initiated on these matters: not one in six months. Certainly no cut-and-pastes.
Here is what Fade accomplished that I consider a net-positive: he underlined that the morass of disaffected whites were being held hostage to the embarrassingly high profile of the irrational net-Nazi lunatic-fringe, and provided an outlet by which individuals could articulate their discomfort or disillusionment at the dead end that approach inevitably turned out to be.
Unfortunately, he refused to peer more deeply into that statement, which is embodied in that Schoepenhauer quote that Kminta is so fond of: [I]All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident.[/I] In other words, before a new idea can be safely declawed, defanged and mainstreamed, it must perforce begin as something confrontational, shocking, beyond the pale: you cannot eventually get [I]inside [/I] without first starting out on the [I]outside[/I].
Thus one could agree with Fade while retaining a stated wariness and even antagonism towards Zionist influence and duplicity and it wouldn't matter: he'd respond with "Luh Windan, like Wintermute, Alex Linder and Genghis Khan, adheres to a fantasy ideology shared by losers and freaks. Honest; it says so right here in this book I'm reading."
He refused to acknowledge the Reality that supercedes all of his lesser realities: that - as of yet - racism, or racialism, or race-realism [or whatever the hell you want to call it], is [I]still [/I] not ready for the prime-time of mainstream thinking. Like it or not, polite society hasn't bled from enough simultaneous wounds to be willing to contemplate [B]It [/B] yet, and - for our part - we still haven't sacrificed enough, put forth our best effort [I]or [/I] offered up enough martyrs yet. Squirreling yourself away on the VNN forum, trading genocide jokes with the like-minded, is not nothing - it's [I]less [/I] than nothing.
But you're not going to make forward progress by neutering the message for public consumption to such a degree that it's no longer [I]your [/I] message, but Bill Kristol's. That's a great way to be liked, and most people like being liked enough to be able to justify being co-opted by the massmind they [I]thought [/I] they were subverting without losing a moment's sleep. And before you know it, you're on Free Republic taking issue with "loaded codewords" like [I]neoconservative [/I] while flinging around [I]Nazi[/I]s like so many peanut shells.
Where we are is on that treacherous road halfway between [I]ridiculed [/I] and [I]violently opposed [/I] ....yet many days' journey from the outskirts of [I]self-evident[/I]. The idea is [U]not[/U] to tell the somatized majority what they already accept as self-evident; it is to risk their violent opposition by introducing ideas they fear (because they have thought them themselves, more than once) in [I]as reasonable and compelling a manner as is possible[/I]...and to expect a certain amount of flak before you even start, so you won't flinch halfway through and change your tune to the William Kristol Fight Song the first time a beer bottle barely misses your head.
2005-01-28 16:31 | User Profile
Though The Phora has ceased to exist, it has now become the stuff of legends, to be forever remembered as the place were VNN and their clumsy henchmen met their Waterloo. Names like Fade the Butcher, Nuclear Thoughts, and a handful of others will be forever remembered, spoken of in quiet reverence in the hallowed halls of cyberspace. In their brief but glorious reign, they were knights of logic, reason, and superlative knowledge, never before matched in WN forums for their consumate debating skills. **
Their kind will not likely be seen again....
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/ihn4f/ThePhoraColossus.jpg[/img]
2005-01-28 16:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=General Rommel]Though The Phora has ceased to exist, it has now become the stuff of legends, to be forever remembered as the place were VNN and their clumsy henchmen met their Waterloo. Names like Fade the Butcher, Nuclear Thoughts, and a handful of others will be forever remembered, spoken of in quiet reverence in the hallowed halls of cyberspace. In their brief but glorious reign, they were knights of logic, reason, and superlative knowledge, never before matched in WN forums for their consumate debating skills. **
Their kind will not likely be seen again....
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v222/ihn4f/ThePhoraColossus.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
Oh God, there goes the neigborhood.
I now hope the Phora will be reinstituted.
2005-01-28 17:03 | User Profile
Normally self-praise is a put off, but in your case, Nuclear Thoughts, and considering your awesome achievement of defeating VNN-forums, an exception can be made. :yawn:
2005-01-28 17:16 | User Profile
[quote=il ragno]If there were, they all preceded his now-famous Change of Heart.
As if a Change of Heart negates each and every previously held conviction? You're making assumptions based on assumptions. He changed his focus for discussion away from such things, but there were still plenty of threads about George Bush, Iraq and whatnot, and I remember discussion about the holocaust re: Israel late in the summer. His motives for analysing these issues may have changed, and that was definitely a good thing, but that doesn't change the factual conclusions he already reached divorced from ideology.
Unfortunately, he refused to peer more deeply into that statement, which is embodied in that Schoepenhauer quote that Kminta is so fond of: All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident. In other words, before a new idea can be safely declawed, defanged and mainstreamed, it must perforce begin as something confrontational, shocking, beyond the pale: you cannot eventually get inside without first starting out on the outside.
He still holds plenty of things as truth which are beyond the pale as such. He's a self-identifying racial communitarian for crying out loud. What he has stopped is trying to be beyond the pale as an end in itself.
2005-01-28 17:28 | User Profile
[QUOTE]There were still plenty of threads about George Bush, Iraq and whatnot, and I remember discussion about the holocaust re: Israel [B]late in the summer.[/B] [/QUOTE]
I.e., six months ago.
His problem was and is [I]overcompensation[/I]. For as much as he loved to clip your worst horrorshow quote to link you, Martin Lindstedt, Neo-Nietzsche and whomever all together in a catspaw, he couldn't get away from the fact that [I]not even the Naziest of Nazis [/I] had posted comments as scurrilous and vile and anti-human as Fade the Post-Moralist...the old Fade...had.
You know it's true, it's why you come here to insist that even the mildest ones should be sent down the memory-hole forever. And so does Fade. Every time he hugs his life-size Winston Churchill doll closer to him, he's trying to buy his penance for having been so extreme that Alex Linder seemed like Mr Greenjeans by comparison. The reason I refuse to give him a pass is that he was [I]every bit [/I] the smug, elitist prick as a Communitarian as he was when he was a justplainracist. The words changed, but the tune was irritatingly familiar.
2005-01-28 17:56 | User Profile
The Phora was a great political debate platform, irregardless of Fade's own erratic politics, so we should give the man a little respect, IMHO.
2005-01-28 18:09 | User Profile
Funny, I thought I had.
2005-01-28 18:19 | User Profile
You're a very good writer, Il Ragno, and I enjoy many of your posts, but you can be a little too hard on people.
2005-01-28 18:29 | User Profile
I say good riddens. When 3/4 of your posts are vacuous French-bashing of the lowest kind.......you might be a Neo-Con. Il Ragno is dead on. Some spoiled rich kid (Fades own emphasis) is through playing white nationalist rebel. I won't be losing any sleep over it. :thumbsup:
2005-01-28 18:38 | User Profile
Were you a regular poster there?
2005-01-28 19:09 | User Profile
I was relatively new there as "Lib". I don't post often on any forum and don't care much for "cyber-politics". Nevertheless, the substance of this little controversy is easily distilled by reading the posts.
2005-01-28 19:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE]....you can be a little too hard on people.[/QUOTE]
True. To an extent. But I try not to be.
But look at it from my point of view for a second.
I first registered at the Phora about a year ago but rarely posted. At that time, Fade was in his Gaius Caligula, American-Psycho-avatar mode...ie, the old Fade. But I really only became a regular there about 3 or 4 months ago and, when I made my second coming, was really and truly on my best behavior and perfectly willing to take a wait-and-see approach on the New Fade.
I noticed him doing Very Odd Things. His main thesis of [I]we can't move forward without losing the crazies[/I] certainly made sense; but Fade and I saw things differently re methodology. My method of losing the crazies is not to participate in their crazyness, and I've always given Stormfront and the VNN Forum a wide berth anyway. Fade's method was to go seek them out and bait them (and, worse: play schoolmaster and Wikipedia them senseless) on [I]message-board after message-board after message-board[/I]. (He'd hit 500 posts on the VNN Forum alone in 3 weeks!) When I told him "since they only want attention and the illusion of potency such attention lends them, the way to negate any impact they might have is to refuse even to acknowledge they exist", he laughed it off. Of course he did: baiting 'inferiors' and quoting tsunamis of text at them is his favorite sport! And he was having fun doing it. Why do you think Lindstedt was given his own geek pit to rule over - because [I]we need to lose the crazies[/I]?
When I pointedly pointed this out to him, I got one of his patented [I]like your friends Wintermute and Neo-Nietzsche, all you can do is scream about [B]the j00z!!![/B][/I] responses.
When you step back a bit and adjust your perspective towards this, you'll find that much of his 'debating' is accent grave over the 'baiting'. It may [I]seem [/I] as though I was the unrelenting antagonist throughout this, but a lot of that perception is due to the fact that I whomped him, regularly, without ever breaking much of a sweat. But that doesn't mean I wasn't whomping him [I]in response [/I] to some snide, would-be devastating putdown that might cow "Landser" or "Erik D" into awed silence, but was only gonna serve to piss me off. I was amazed at how adept he was with the cheap shot, and at how important linkage was to him - it was always [I]you and your fellow Nazis Linder and Wintermute[/I] or [I]you and your friend Lindstedt [/I] and so on. That his loudest and only cheerleading squad through all this was [I]Raina and Sulla [/I] ought to tell you something; and even Lucky Lindstedt will confirm there's nothing but a Genesis 3:15 hardon between us.
So what this comes down to is while I was 'antagonizing' him, he was busy antagonizing me back, and often [I]first[/I]. What - suddenly it's [I]my [/I] fault he hits like a girl?
2005-01-28 20:08 | User Profile
He was a very good debater though. The sheer volume of his posts was enough to bludgeon most people into submission.
2005-01-28 20:18 | User Profile
Everything you say is spot on, Il Ragno. It is only that I know many complimentary things can be said about our friend and the Phora. First of all, the time and energy he put into the project, and the fact that his mercurial temperment acted like a large paddle to stir everything up. The Phora was fun. I for one learned a lot there. There is also the putting it on the line aspect that all owners of this kind of board deserve respect for. I think it needs to be said, that all in all, the Phora was a good deed, and that no man should be drawn and quartered for a good deed.
2005-01-28 20:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]I think it needs to be said, that all in all, the Phora was a good deed, and that no man should be drawn and quartered for a good deed.[/QUOTE]Dittos, Bardamu ! :thumbsup:
"After all, I have repudiated my former statements and I have learned from my mistakes, unlike the individuals quoted above. And the fundamental mistake that I made (as have many others before me), I think, was spending too much time in the bizarre little internet world of white nationalism slash national socialism slash paleoconservatism. Ultimately, like many others before me, I came to my senses and purified my worldview from such deleterious influences."<< -- FadeTheButcher
2005-01-28 21:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]he was [I]every bit [/I] the smug, elitist prick as a Communitarian as he was when he was a justplainracist.[/QUOTE]That was my impression as well. I admit I didn't spend a lot of time at the Phora; mainly read AntiYuppie.
A question for those who knew him better: when he was trying to be a respectable White Nationalist, did he mention Yggdrasil? If you're trying for respectability, there's your model to follow.
2005-01-28 22:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Anarch]There was a warning?[/QUOTE]I was being sarcastic.
I'll say this about the Phora...I at least had a good laugh doing the "AryanSuperman" schtick, though I found it just a bit disconcerting when a fair number of self-proclaimed "elightened" racialists at first were not certain whether the posts were intended to be taken seriously...
2005-01-29 06:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Stanley]A question for those who knew him better: when he was trying to be a respectable White Nationalist, did he mention Yggdrasil? If you're trying for respectability, there's your model to follow.[/QUOTE]
One of the things I found strange about the FadeTheKosher version was that he did not quote alot of Ygg or Jared Taylor. He mentioned them in passing, but there is alot of material there that folks can avail themselves to if they wanted.
That Fade did not do that seems to point to the notion that he had become mentally unstable after making so many ideological 180s in such a short time and not even stopping for a moment to catch his breath and think 'What was I thinking?' (Il Ragno has in some ways pointed out some of this stuff BTW)
I think the dude got so arrogant that he thought he didn't need to avail himself of any supporting material from Ygg or Taylor and that he could start from scratch with Racial Communitarianism. Obviously with The Phora now closed and bereft of any supporters Fade failed and Racial Communitarianism is on the way to Bill Whites archives of ideological strangeness most likely.
2005-01-29 06:27 | User Profile
Sic transit gloria.
2005-01-29 08:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]I'm not sure exactly why, but this is a very effective burn on us....[/QUOTE]I call it the Original Dissent Embalming Society because all it wants to do is to embalm the ideas of its red-blooded ancestors.
By the way, I lifted the phrase from Robert Heinlein's first successful short story, Lifeline, in which an original thinker is able to predict when someone is going to die. The original thinker, Pinero, is first fobbed off onto the life insurance companies' 'think tank' of trained 'scientists' and in his speech Pinero calls these witch doctors a bunch of feebs (from feeble, as in minded) out only to 'preserve the ideas of your red-blooded ancestors' -- like Pinero, who discovered that which works. Pinero is finished, not by the trained seals, but rather by old fashioned business practices.
Read Michael Crichton's new novel "State of Fear" in which 'scientists' are increasingly politicised and coming up not with science, but with what they are expected to put out for those who pay for them.
Original Dissent Embalming Society. It is only interested in dragging forth the mummified bones of churchianity, and has nothing to say about what morality and what new doxology shall prevail as part of a religious movement like that of 16th Century Europe when the Reformation took place and religious wars and religious hatred spread, and God was used to justify all manner of butchery.
That is why I so enjoy Dual-Seedline Christian Identity. It allows for the butchery of the spawn of Satan, adoptive or biological. To counter that fierce fighting faith, the feebs here at ODES have what? jew-day-o churchianity which lost all the savage red-bloodedness needed to want to both fight and f*ck, both attributes necessary for survival. There is overmuch sanctimony, but not a bit of passion or fanaticm in the dead embers and ashes of your dying religiousity. As a result, while my kind, which will inherit the Earth, are looked upon as uncouth both by jew-day-os and whigger nutsionalists, my kind looks upon you as dead or dying turkeys, starving to death while still fat, dumb and happy. You're like stegosaurus with the walnut-sized brain taking two weeks to understand that there is indeed a rabid proto-possum gnawing on your fat reptilian slothful ass.
Yes, there is something perjorative in the phrase.
--Martin Lindstedt [url="http://www.martinlindstedt.org/"]www.martinlindstedt.org[/url]
2005-01-29 09:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno] But look at it from my point of view for a second.
I first registered at the Phora about a year ago but rarely posted. At that time, Fade was in his Gaius Caligula, American-Psycho-avatar mode...ie, the old Fade. But I really only became a regular there about 3 or 4 months ago and, when I made my second coming, was really and truly on my best behavior and perfectly willing to take a wait-and-see approach on the New Fade.
I noticed him doing Very Odd Things. His main thesis of we can't move forward without losing the crazies certainly made sense; but Fade and I saw things differently re methodology. My method of losing the crazies is not to participate in their crazyness, and I've always given Stormfront and the VNN Forum a wide berth anyway. Fade's method was to go seek them out and bait them (and, worse: play schoolmaster and Wikipedia them senseless) on message-board after message-board after message-board. (He'd hit 500 posts on the VNN Forum alone in 3 weeks!) When I told him "since they only want attention and the illusion of potency such attention lends them, the way to negate any impact they might have is to refuse even to acknowledge they exist", he laughed it off. Of course he did: baiting 'inferiors' and quoting tsunamis of text at them is his favorite sport! And he was having fun doing it. Why do you think Lindstedt was given his own geek pit to rule over - because we need to lose the crazies? Insofar as I recollect, Ill Fagno didn't have any problem in frequenting my little circle-jerk of hell and fighting with myself one bit. It's not as if anyone who went there either expected, asked, or received any quarter in my own little jewlag. And, as I recollect, often there were far more people browsing in the "Opposition" forum in the 'low-brow' section where I was caged up than ever bothered to look at the 'high-brow' section.
You whiggers can beller all you like about being wine & brie brown cheese-eaters, but you like jewry Springer better than Sally jewssy when you want to slum around and both better than 'Masterpiece Theatre' when it comes to forums. Not one of you goes to hockey games because you want to see good skating.
[QUOTE=il ragno] When I pointedly pointed this out to him, I got one of his patented like your friends Wintermute and Neo-Nietzsche, all you can do is scream about the j00z!!!** responses.
When you step back a bit and adjust your perspective towards this, you'll find that much of his 'debating' is accent grave over the 'baiting'. It may seem as though I was the unrelenting antagonist throughout this, but a lot of that perception is due to the fact that I whomped him, regularly, without ever breaking much of a sweat. But that doesn't mean I wasn't whomping him in response to some snide, would-be devastating putdown that might cow "Landser" or "Erik D" into awed silence, but was only gonna serve to piss me off. I was amazed at how adept he was with the cheap shot, and at how important linkage was to him - it was always you and your fellow Nazis Linder and Wintermute or you and your friend Lindstedt and so on. That his loudest and only cheerleading squad through all this was Raina and Sulla ought to tell you something; and even Lucky Lindstedt will confirm there's nothing but a Genesis 3:15 hardon between us. Itz not as if there was anything hard about whupping up on FakeTheFlake. If you are congradulating yourself about whupping up on Fake, then you must want to take your victories wherever you can.
By the way, with the Genesis 3:15 'hardon between us' -- does that mean you admit to being a jew, Ill Fagno? There are sure a lot of them jews in jew Yawk City -- itz Khazaristan on the Hudson. Whereas there are no jews that I'm aware of here in Granby Missouri, and its not just because I'm here.
[QUOTE=il ragno] So what this comes down to is while I was 'antagonizing' him, he was busy antagonizing me back, and often first. What - suddenly it's my fault he hits like a girl?[/QUOTE]FakeTheFlake was a feeb. But sometimes you pretended to like Fake. Something I was never guilty of. The only reason Fake had me on his jewlag was because I brought in all of you jewry Springer phorafeebs wanting to see a fight.
--Martin Lindstedt [url="http://www.martinlindstedt.org/"]www.martinlindstedt.org[/url]
2005-01-29 09:04 | User Profile
Nice to see everything's back to normal again.
[QUOTE]FakeTheFlake was a feeb. But sometimes you pretended to like Fake. Something I was never guilty of.[/QUOTE] Though this could [B]not [/B] have been your intention, essentially this proves my point: that I began on good terms with Fade, and did not show up seething hostility from Day One.
[QUOTE]By the way, with the Genesis 3:15 'hardon between us' -- does that mean you admit to being a jew, Ill Fagno? [/QUOTE] Nah. Just lumping myself in with those hundreds of millions of charred corpses you're holding your breath waiting on.
[QUOTE]Insofar as I recollect, Ill Fagno didn't have any problem in frequenting my little circle-jerk of hell and fighting with myself one bit. [/QUOTE] You may also recall I extended a wary sort of praise your way if I thought it was warranted. I believe I even analogized your newsletters to Texan journalist William Brann at one point. Though I consider you essentially vile.
Obviously, if I can find praiseworthy elements in both Fade [I]and [/I] Lucky over here, this idea Fade is now selling - that I'm a parasitic Nazi troll barking an uncultured, one-note agenda - is particularly desperate nonsense.
2005-01-29 09:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MartinLindstedt]That is why I so enjoy Dual-Seedline Christian Identity. It allows for the butchery of the spawn of Satan, adoptive or biological. To counter that fierce fighting faith, the feebs here at ODES have what? jew-day-o churchianity which lost all the savage red-bloodedness needed to want to both fight and f*ck, both attributes necessary for survival. There is overmuch sanctimony, but not a bit of passion or fanaticm in the dead embers and ashes of your dying religiousity. As a result, while my kind, which will inherit the Earth, are looked upon as uncouth both by jew-day-os and whigger nutsionalists, my kind looks upon you as dead or dying turkeys, starving to death while still fat, dumb and happy. You're like stegosaurus with the walnut-sized brain taking two weeks to understand that there is indeed a rabid proto-possum gnawing on your fat reptilian slothful ass.[/QUOTE]
My, my, you certainly are full of yourself, aren't you Martin? Christ himself said that the meek shall inherit the earth and that's one adjective that sure doesn't seem to describe you.
As disturbing and distasteful as I find your "theology", I take solace in the fact that with every sentence you write and post here you do far greater damage to your own cause than a million apologetics refuting it by those holding firm in the true Truth once delivered to the Saints. For it is by their fruits that we know them and you might be well served not to mistake loudmouth rabble-rousing for integrity, character, conviction and resiliency.
2005-01-29 09:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE=General Rommel]Though The Phora has ceased to exist, it has now become the stuff of legends, to be forever remembered as the place were VNN and their clumsy henchmen met their Waterloo. Names like Fade the Butcher, Nuclear Thoughts, and a handful of others will be forever remembered, spoken of in quiet reverence in the hallowed halls of cyberspace. In their brief but glorious reign, they were knights of logic, reason, and superlative knowledge, never before matched in WN forums for their consumate debating skills. **
Their kind will not likely be seen again....
In the name of all that's Holy, please let this be satire! Even on the occassions where Nuclear Thoughts was entirely correct, he still managed to be correct in a manner that was idiotic and juvenile. I should hope we won't see HIS like again, but the odds seem remote....
2005-01-29 09:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]My, my, you certainly are full of yourself, aren't you Martin? Christ himself said that the meek shall inherit the earth and that's one adjective that sure doesn't seem to describe you.
As disturbing and distasteful as I find your "theology", I take solace in the fact that with every sentence you write and post here you do far greater damage to your own cause than a million apologetics refuting it by those holding firm in the true Truth once delivered to the Saints. For it is by their fruits that we know them and you might be well served not to mistake loudmouth rabble-rousing for integrity, character, conviction and resiliency.[/QUOTE]For every Scripture in which you praise the meek, I can doubtless show you one showing that there is a time and a place for the Christian warrior. Today people want to be shown what to do, have definite commands and thou-shalts rather than wander forever in the mazes of hierarchial do-gooderism. So I'm rousing the rabble, am I, Fake Senior? Whatever happened to the Scripture saying that even the best of our self-righteousness is nothing more than 'filthy rags' in the sight of YHWH? Perhaps indeed your filthy rags are better than mine, but I fail to see how much. But doubtless you took the blue ribbon in the Original Dissent County Fair for 'filthy rags' 6.66 years in a row.
Also, you seem to prefer to think that you are right rather than interested in survival, even for its own sake. My point is that your kind has never had a fighting faith, rather a love for sanctimony for its own sake. Every dog has its dogma.
Not that I find that a bad thing. I often read as much of your sanctimonious drivel as I can stomach or until my eyes glaze over, and have to remind myself that yes, you are 'for real' and so are around a hundred million others, which is why things are so screwed up. In fact, both evil and evildoers get a break because with your declarations of good being evil and evil good, you don't seem to see the woe that is about to betide you. What or where, pray tell, is there any room for 'original dissent' between what today's jew-day-os do in their worship of ZOG and mammon and what your religiousity is? I hear of so much 'Original Dissent' but I've gotta ask, "Where's the beef?"
I'm gonna say this, because I'm mean and because it is true. There is far more of a difference between myself and you than there is between thephora and Original Dissent. Frankly, I bet if I split you with a battleaxe I could make two Fakes out of you in terms of age and in where you both will end up. Like the Bourbons, of whom Napoleon said, "They remembered everything and learned nothing," so too can I see a 'mature'-in-years-only Fade becoming yourself, given another generation of years, Texas Dissent.
Obviously I don't pull any punches. What say you to my charges?
--Martin Lindstedt [url="http://www.martinlindstedt.org/"]www.martinlindstedt.org[/url]
2005-01-29 09:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MartinLindstedt]Obviously I don't pull any punches. What say you to my charges?[/QUOTE]
You're the man, Martin.
Everyone has an opinion and I don't have to answer to you. Just please try and keep it clean.
2005-01-29 10:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Nice to see everything's back to normal again.
Though this could not have been your intention, essentially this proves my point: that I began on good terms with Fade, and did not show up seething hostility from Day One.
Nah. Just lumping myself in with those hundreds of millions of charred corpses you're holding your breath waiting on.
You may also recall I extended a wary sort of praise your way if I thought it was warranted. I believe I even analogized your newsletters to Texan journalist William Brann at one point. Though I consider you essentially vile.
Obviously, if I can find praiseworthy elements in both Fade and Lucky over here, this idea Fade is now selling - that I'm a parasitic Nazi troll barking an uncultured, one-note agenda - is particularly desperate nonsense.[/QUOTE]And just when I was about to place you a cut above normal whiggerdumb and get you to admit to being a jew, you claim indeed, normal whiggerdumb.
Of course, how foolish of me to forget, it was always about you. Poor FakeTheFlake. Born on third base and thinking it hit a triple, but still wants a hunka, hunka burning love and is willing to sneak through the back door of Graceland to get it, just so long as none of his putative 'e-kwalls' see him slumming. Whereass jewrself, Ill Fagno, have no shortage of phorafeeb shabbes whiggers to step and fetch a genuine velvet wall covering of The Kink hisself for the sin-o-gog through the front door.
It is so funny to see whigger nutsionalists put each other in the dozens.
--Martin Lindstedt [url="http://www.martinlindstedt.org/"]www.martinlindstedt.org[/url]
2005-01-29 10:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]The Phora was a great political debate platform, irregardless of Fade's own erratic politics, so we should give the man a little respect, IMHO.[/QUOTE]
It really is a shame he shut that place down; I rather enjoyed it. I also had made over 600 posts there since September, and feel a bit cheated that they were all taken away without warning, frankly. I didn't write most of them exclusively for my own enjoyment, but also to influence public opinion in some modest respect. Fat lot of good they are doing now. Additionally, I was never able to read my last "private" message, because Fade deactivated "private" messaging, after his snooping around in all our "private" mailboxes revealed that some people were making "private" comments about him that were unflattering (the message I never got to read had nothing to do with Fade, by the way). I don't care who you are; you do stuff like this, everyone's liable to start disliking you rather intensely.
Speaking of intense dislike, a few weeks ago, before I knew who Fade's famous grandfather was, I posted a reply regarding the man, and it was quite uncomplimentary. I think I may have referred to the man, who at that time I did not even remotely suspect was Fade's grandfather, as something along the lines of "a vile, disgusting traitor who's example will live in infamy, as a perpetual example of how men ought not to behave," or something more-or-less like that, albeit I may have gone on for an entire paragraph in that vein. This probably explains why Fade apparently stopped paying attention to anything I posted (I suspect I was on his Ignore List, and now I know why). I'm sure he thought I insulted his grandpappy on purpose, but it was entirely a coincidence. Oh well.
2005-01-29 10:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]You're the man, Martin.
Everyone has an opinion and I don't have to answer to you. Just please try and keep it clean.[/QUOTE]I take it that you don't know 'where's the beef.' And no, you don't have to answer to me -- especially when you don't got one.
I'll try to stay behind the Great Wall of Euphemism.
--Martin Lindstedt Attilla the Killa, Breacher of Walls & Pseudo-Hymens [url="http://www.martinlindstedt.org/"]www.martinlindstedt.org[/url]
2005-01-29 10:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]It really is a shame he shut that place down; I rather enjoyed it. I also had made over 600 posts there since September, and feel a bit cheated that they were all taken away without warning, frankly. I didn't write most of them exclusively for my own enjoyment, but also to influence public opinion in some modest respect. Fat lot of good they are doing now. Additionally, Fade apparently DID warn some cadre of his chosen favorites about the imminent closure, and presumably told them to keep it under their hats. Additionally, I was never able to read my last "private" message, because Fade deactivated "private" messaging, after his snooping around in all our "private" mailboxes revealed that some people were making "private" comments about him that were unflattering (the message I never got to read had nothing to do with Fade, by the way). I don't care who you are; you do stuff like this, everyone's liable to start disliking you rather intensely.
Speaking of intense dislike, a few weeks ago, before I knew who Fade's famous grandfather was, I posted a reply regarding the man, and it was quite uncomplimentary. I think I may have referred to the man, who at that time I did not even remotely suspect was Fade's grandfather, as something along the lines of "a vile, disgusting traitor who's example will live in infamy, as a perpetual example of how men ought not to behave," or something more-or-less like that, albeit I may have gone on for an entire paragraph in that vein. This probably explains why Fade apparently stopped paying attention to anything I posted (I suspect I was on his Ignore List, and now I know why). I'm sure he thought I insulted his grandpappy on purpose, but it was entirely a coincidence. Oh well.[/QUOTE]FakeTheFlake. Entirely untrustworthy. Wasted people's times and efforts with no thought other than himself.
I have no doubt that Fake's grandpappy was a Scalawag. Or one of the Kallikaks studying hard to become on of the Jukes of Hazzard.
--Martin Lindstedt [url="http://www.martinlindstedt.org/"]www.martinlindstedt.org[/url]
2005-01-29 10:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Poor FakeTheFlake. Born on third base and thinking it hit a triple, but still wants a hunka, hunka burning love and is willing to sneak through the back door of Graceland to get it, just so long as none of his putative 'e-kwalls' see him slumming. Whereass jewrself, Ill Fagno, have no shortage of phorafeeb shabbes whiggers to step and fetch a genuine velvet wall covering of The Kink hisself for the sin-o-gog through the front door.[/QUOTE]
You ran out of Haldol tonight, didn't you?
2005-01-29 10:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MartinLindstedt]I have no doubt that Fake's grandpappy was a Scalawag. Or one of the Kallikaks studying hard to become on of the Jukes of Hazzard.[/QUOTE]
You might not want to talk too much trash about Fade's grandfather. I'd bet a five-spot that at some point in your life, he was one of your heroes....
2005-01-29 14:59 | User Profile
Il Ragno,
I normally stay away from threads like this for they attract a large number of lunatics. The quote below of Martin's caught my attention.
[QUOTE]You whiggers can beller all you like about being wine & brie brown cheese-eaters, but you like jewry Springer better than Sally jewssy when you want to slum around and both better than 'Masterpiece Theatre' when it comes to forums. Not one of you goes to hockey games because you want to see good skating. [/QUOTE]
Just what in the hell is he babbling about? Any ideas?
2005-01-29 15:43 | User Profile
Sert,
Give him time; Lucky's just getting warmed up.
Soon, he'll be rolling out "Macedonian spam-rolling mamzer", "ZOGling whiggertariat", "libertoonian whigger ass-clown nutzionalists", and the like.
Rather than go hunting down a Lindstedt-to-English dictionary, just take Lucky's degraded syntax as proof positive that [I]a little [B]itz [/B] goes a long, long way[/I]. By the time he gets around to referring to every OD member by a moronic parody name - i.e., "Ill Fagno" - it'll come as no surprise to discover Lucky lives in a broken-down trailer, relieves himself in jugs and coffee cans exlusively, and had his grandchildren forcibly removed from his care by the authorities for exhibiting all the tell-tale signs of child abuse - all the while standing on a milk crate and frightening passersby with his nutzoid CI horror-doxology of mass-murder, a new primitivism and a world ruled by dual-seedline tribal war chieftains.
No, I'm not exaggeratig. But don't take [B]my [/B] word for it - ask [I]any [/I] recently evicted Phora contributor....
2005-01-29 15:52 | User Profile
Il Ragno,
Thank you for this. Forewarned is forearmed. He certainly doesn't seem to be the sociable sort.
2005-01-29 22:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=MartinLindstedt]You whiggers* can beller all you like about being wine & brie brown cheese-eaters, but you like jewry Springer better than Sally jewssy when you want to slum around and both better than 'Masterpiece Theatre' when it comes to forums. Not one of you goes to hockey games because you want to see good skating.[/QUOTE]I ran this through the Lindstedt-to-English translator and got this: :nerd:
"You pretenders from The Phora can complain about your yuppie lifestyles, but you prefer the "Jerry Springer Show" to "Sally Jesse Raphael", and both better than PBS programming. You enjoy forums for the down-and-dirty fights rather than the aesthetics of debate.
2005-01-30 07:03 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]By the time he gets around to referring to every OD member by a moronic parody name - i.e., "Ill Fagno"[/QUOTE]
I thought of one for myself - Kraven O'Queef.
2005-01-30 07:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]I normally stay away from threads like this for they attract a large number of lunatics.
That's an understatement
2005-01-30 07:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE] Originally Posted by Kevin_O'Keeffe Speaking of intense dislike, a few weeks ago, before I knew who Fade's famous grandfather was, I posted a reply regarding the man, and it was quite uncomplimentary. I think I may have referred to the man, who at that time I did not even remotely suspect was Fade's grandfather, as something along the lines of "a vile, disgusting traitor who's example will live in infamy, as a perpetual example of how men ought not to behave," or something more-or-less like that, albeit I may have gone on for an entire paragraph in that vein. This probably explains why Fade apparently stopped paying attention to anything I posted (I suspect I was on his Ignore List, and now I know why). I'm sure he thought I insulted his grandpappy on purpose, but it was entirely a coincidence. Oh well. [/QUOTE]I happened to catch your thread on this subject prior to it - wisely, in my estimation - getting the hook yesterday. I just find it odd that, if you were in fact correct, it took Pat's TDOTW for Fade to "discover" some of the more empirically oriented racial issues consuming the West. One might almost be as presumptuous as to think such proclivities to already be in the genes. You know, gramps & all...
2005-01-30 08:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Sert,
Give him time; Lucky's just getting warmed up.
Soon, he'll be rolling out "Macedonian spam-rolling mamzer", "ZOGling whiggertariat", "libertoonian whigger ass-clown nutzionalists", and the like.
Rather than go hunting down a Lindstedt-to-English dictionary, just take Lucky's degraded syntax as proof positive that a little itz goes a long, long way. By the time he gets around to referring to every OD member by a moronic parody name - i.e., "Ill Fagno" - it'll come as no surprise to discover Lucky lives in a broken-down trailer, relieves himself in jugs and coffee cans exlusively, and had his grandchildren forcibly removed from his care by the authorities for exhibiting all the tell-tale signs of child abuse - all the while standing on a milk crate and frightening passersby with his nutzoid CI horror-doxology of mass-murder, a new primitivism and a world ruled by dual-seedline tribal war chieftains.
No, I'm not exaggeratig. But don't take my word for it - ask any recently evicted Phora contributor....[/QUOTE]Ill Fagno isn't much, if any different than FakeThe Flake. Sometimes Ill Fagno would whine that Fake was simply making up stereotypes absent proof about myself -- the next, like above, Ill Fagno is hypocritically repeating the same lies he got down on Fake for.
The question of the matter is character. Ill Fagno didn't like my talking about prion-poisoning. Or making fun of himself or other phorafags/feebs. One thread that I posted on thephora was how many whiggers in over a decade of dealing with LibberToons, militia mattoids, nutzis, and bowel Movement types have I met. The answer is one. One standard garden variety whigger whose only scope of concern is itself. Nothing more.
So, as Ezra Pound noted, educating 'AmeriKwans' is impossible -- the best that can be expected is to train them. With all due respect to Ezra Pound, it is largely impossible to even train the typical AmeriKwan whigger, much less the sundry parasites living off of such -- however, one can go with the flow of history and take certain steps which will hasten and exascerbate the coming inevitable collapse -- and one of them was prion-poisoning. Ill Fagno thought, as a jew Yawk whigger or secret jew that it was safe to just not eat venison. Ill Fagno didn't like the rest of the story.
In any case, my interaction on these quasi-whigger nutsionalist boreds is simply in response -- policy is dictated on my web page. I've never believed when in dealing with swine to feed them beans and buttermilk, but rather a stick with a nail in it applied upside the snout is best.
--Martin Lindstedt [url="http://www.martinlindstedt.org/"]www.martinlindstedt.org[/url]
P.S. If the tone sounds perjorative, and you can't understand the words, well, rest assurred that the intent is perjorative. --M.L.
2005-01-30 09:19 | User Profile
The "tribal warlord" of the coming post-apocalypse hath spoken. Thing about Lucky is he routinely spews so much insane megahostile neo-survivalist drivel in post after post after post after post than you kind of get acclimated to it after a while. You actually begin [I]not to notice [/I] that he's posting u-kill-m recipes for poisoning the food supply that would almost certainly qualify as bonafide acts of domestic-terrorism. You somehow [I]overlook [/I] the fact that Lucky doesn't care who he kills so long as [I]somebody, somewhere [/I] validates his existence by becoming very ill after eating tainted meat and dying: that it might be a white-haired old lady on a fixed income would prompt as much glee on his part as if he'd just 'felled' Kobe Bryant or Alan Dershowitz. In fact it would please him [I]more[/I]: just before the Phora pholded, Lucky'd begun bragging that the rise in Alzheimer's cases correlated with his Dual-Seedline Prion Project, and that a link could be reasnably made between the effects of ingesting tainted meat and the breakdown of cognitive functions in the brain, presaging full-blown Alzheimer's in the elderly.
Would [I]you [/I] allow small children to live under this moron's "care"? Especially when they're found covered with burns and lacerations and flea bites, wearing double-reinforced paper bags as "shoes"?
No [I]wonder [/I] a white nigger like this - who high-fives himself because your grandmother has recently begun not recognizing you and can no longer live alone without supervision, and [I]he might've helped to make that happen[/I] - defines 'courage' as publicizing one's name on the Internet: this attention-starved defective has been on wacko watch lists for [B]years [/B] now for insisting you remember his name so you'll know who to swear fealty to when the Day Of The Dual-Seedline Rope arrives.
2005-01-30 13:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=albion]I ran this through the Lindstedt-to-English translator and got this: :nerd:
"You pretenders from The Phora can complain about your yuppie lifestyles, but you prefer the "Jerry Springer Show" to "Sally Jesse Raphael", and both better than PBS programming. You enjoy forums for the down-and-dirty fights rather than the aesthetics of debate.[/QUOTE] It is amazing that you can decipher his ramblings so well. I had no idea what he was talking about until you posted this.
2005-01-30 22:20 | User Profile
Okay, who was Fade's grandfather?
2005-01-30 23:19 | User Profile
Fade is back now, so any questions that he can answer better than any of us could, you can ask him if you want to. I told Kevin that too before.