← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · HrodbertAntoninus
Thread ID: 16433 | Posts: 12 | Started: 2005-01-25
2005-01-25 22:42 | User Profile
Recently I e-mailed Professor Paul Gottfried, the Jewish author of such rightist tomes as Multiculturalism and the Politics of the Guilt and After Liberalism, concerning the destructive effects of Jews living in non-Jewish civilizations (the same typically Jewish destructivity Rabbi Lapin has honestly admitted lately in his comments about Meet the Fockers) and the possible origins of this antagonism.
"Knowing as I do your personal honesty, Professor Gottfried, could you please explain to a highly intelligent and politically competent gentile teenager why so many Jewish people participated in the modern leftist movements which have horribly scarred these past centuries? What possibly could precipitate such a disaster? I am a restless seeker of knowledge, and perhaps you could enlighten me on how this once-great and noble people to which you belong has spiritually weakened itself so contemptibly, to the extent of composing the majority of the early Bolshevik regime and becoming active propagators of anti-American ideologies such as multiculturalism, insurrectionary egalitarianism, socialist internationalism, one-worldism, etc. Thank you."
His response:
"I suspect there were many reasons for what you accurately describe, but a fusion of circumstances that seems particularly important was century-long social exclusion combined with high intelligence and burning resentment. I don't think Jewish behavior is unique. The Old Believers in Russia, who were persecuted by the Tsars for not accepting liturgical and ritual changes that the Russian government introduced, have a history almost identical to the Jewish one. These Christian non-conformists combined driving ambition and intelligence with revolutionary fixations. Most Jewish communities at most times, moreover, have not been equally radical; nonetheless, post-World War Two Euro-American Jews have been exactly the way you depict them. One overwhelming reason is that Jewish leaders have convinced their followers that Christianity and European bourgeois society are essentially anti-Semitic and likely to create more anti-Jewish sentiment unless weakened and diluted. The other equally important reason for this heightened Jewish radicalism is that Christians are saying the same thing as the Jewish leaders. A Jewish friend of mine, who started out liking Christians, went with his Lutheran wife to a Lutheran service. He came back convinced by the Protestant pastor that Martin Luther and the Gospel of John had prepared the way for Hitler. PG"
What say ye, Counterrevolutionists? Kevin MacDonald hypothesizes that the Jewish craftiness ("intelligence") which Gottfried alludes to is a product of centuries-old eugenic measures instituted by a litigious and verbalistic Talmudic caste. Gottfried also implies that Europeans were strongly causative in the social separation between Jews and Europeans in the pre-modern West, as if this exclusion was imposed unitlaterally on Jews by Europeans from the outside. But hasn't Kevin MacDonald shown the essentially and violently self-segregating impulse to Judaism? Gottfried openly admits that the modern Jewish leadership elite, whether out of self-delusion or burning ressentiment, conspires against the normative structures of the Christian-European world. Is Gottfried's focus on the unnerving nature of fashionable Protestant Christianity in undermining our Cultural vitality valid?
2005-01-26 17:48 | User Profile
[url="http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-references-gentiles-900quotes.htm"]http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-references-gentiles-900quotes.htm[/url]
VOLTAIRE (Francois Marie Arouet) 18th century French philosopher, writer:[indent][left]"Why are the Jews hated? It is the inevitable result of their laws; they either have to conquer everybody or be hated by the whole human race..."
[/left]
[/indent]
2005-01-26 17:57 | User Profile
In my personal dealings with Gottfried I found him to be an extremely dishonest man who will lie as easily as those he castigates. He is dishonorable and will like so many go with his blood relatives rather than professed principles. He may be the most loathsome man I have met. Please read below [QUOTE] [CENTER][SIZE=4]For Israel, Without Illusions: An Interview With Paul Gottfried [/SIZE] [/CENTER] Myles Kantor Friday, Jan. 30, 2004
Paul Gottfried is professor of humanities at Elizabethtown College and a contributing editor to Chronicles. His books include "The Conservative Movement," "After Liberalism: Mass Democracy in the Managerial State" and, most recently, "Multiculturalism and the Politics of Guilt: Toward a Secular Theocracy." ...
[I][QUOTE]In short, I view Israel as an ethnic national state with a constitutional government that offers legal protection to non-Jewish minorities. While it is a gross exaggeration to pretend that Jews and non-Jews can do equally well in public life or enjoy the same social respect in Israel, I would rather be a non-Jew in Israel than a member of a religious-ethnic minority in just about any Muslim country. Indeed, I would rather be a non-Jew in Israel than a non-Catholic in eighteenth-century France or a Catholic in Ireland under English domination[/QUOTE][/I]... [QUOTE][COLOR=Red][I]Although I see no evidence that the Israelis deliberately blew up what they knew to be an American ship with the attack on the USS Liberty[/I],[/COLOR] I am bothered by the Pollard affair, which revealed the utter cynicism of the Begin-Shamir regime. Both of those leaders, and particularly Shamir, dripped with anti-Gentile malice and this may have been reflected in the way they treated their American "ally." [/QUOTE]... [QUOTE]How has your thinking evolved on Israel and the Arab-Israeli conflict?
I don't believe my thinking has changed much on this subject, but I have moved beyond the impulse to tease Jews who adopt a double standard-that is, I no longer jest by making arguments for the Palestinians as Third World victims of Western imperialism. Why bother to tease silly people, who are probably incapable of seeing their inconsistency? [/QUOTE] Myles Kantor is a columnist for FrontPageMagazine.com and editor-at-large for Pureplay Press ([url]www.pureplaypress.com[/url]), which publishes books about Cuban history and culture. His e-mail address is [email]MylesColumn@aol.com[/email][/QUOTE]
2005-01-26 18:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=HrodbertAntoninus] "I suspect there were many reasons for what you accurately describe, but a fusion of circumstances that seems particularly important was century-long social exclusion combined with high intelligence and burning resentment. Jewish social exclusion was self-imposed; Jewish laws demanded it, in both pagan, Christian, and Islamic cultures.
I don't think Jewish behavior is unique. The Old Believers in Russia, who were persecuted by the Tsars for not accepting liturgical and ritual changes that the Russian government introduced, have a history almost identical to the Jewish one. These Christian non-conformists combined driving ambition and intelligence with revolutionary fixations. I have never heard of a revolutionary who came from an Old Believer background, nor one who displayed any of the negative Jewish traits one could mention besides political radicalism. Doubtless Gottfried has some examples, but they hardly seem typical. The general Old Believer reaction to persecution was to flee to remote areas, as I recall, not to start revolutionary movements. Most Jewish communities at most times, moreover, have not been equally radical; nonetheless, post-World War Two Euro-American Jews have been exactly the way you depict them. One overwhelming reason is that Jewish leaders have convinced their followers that Christianity and European bourgeois society are essentially anti-Semitic and likely to create more anti-Jewish sentiment unless weakened and diluted. The other equally important reason for this heightened Jewish radicalism is that Christians are saying the same thing as the Jewish leaders. A Jewish friend of mine, who started out liking Christians, went with his Lutheran wife to a Lutheran service. He came back convinced by the Protestant pastor that Martin Luther and the Gospel of John had prepared the way for Hitler. PG" Having grown up in Lutheran churches, I can't for the life of me imagine what would elicit such a reaction. Lutherans today would wet their pants if they so much as had an anti-Jewish thought, and they would be far too polite to share such a thought with anyone they thought it might offend, which is, today, everyone.
What say ye, Counterrevolutionists? Kevin MacDonald hypothesizes that the Jewish craftiness ("intelligence") which Gottfried alludes to is a product of centuries-old eugenic measures instituted by a litigious and verbalistic Talmudic caste. Gottfried also implies that Europeans were strongly causative in the social separation between Jews and Europeans in the pre-modern West, as if this exclusion was imposed unitlaterally on Jews by Europeans from the outside. But hasn't Kevin MacDonald shown the essentially and violently self-segregating impulse to Judaism? Gottfried openly admits that the modern Jewish leadership elite, whether out of self-delusion or burning ressentiment, conspires against the normative structures of the Christian-European world. Is Gottfried's focus on the unnerving nature of fashionable Protestant Christianity in undermining our Cultural vitality valid?[/QUOTE]Gottfried is correct in what he does address, but he narrowly focuses his analysis to avoid touching on the full implications of the Jewish question. In other words, he ducks the issue. If he is aware of Kevin MacDonald's work (I think he has reviewed it?) he either ignores it or deliberately obfuscates its thesis.
2005-01-26 19:48 | User Profile
I, too have, met Paul Gottfried on many occasions and consider him to be a man of high integrity, honest and a bulwark of paleocoservatism. I have also met "Edward Gibbon" and have had to mark him down as a disturbed individual.
2005-01-26 19:50 | User Profile
[B][I] - "I have also met "Edward Gibbon" and have had to mark him down as a disturbed individual."[/I][/B]
How so?
Petr
2005-01-27 01:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=solutrian][COLOR=Red]I, too have, met Paul Gottfried on many occasions and consider him to be a man of high integrity, honest and a bulwark of paleocoservatism.
I have also met "Edward Gibbon" and have had to mark him down as a[B] disturbed individual[/B][/COLOR].[/QUOTE]I met Solutrian at a talk at Swarthmore College by Carol Swain (sp?), the black woman professor at Vanderbilt, who warned about rising white racism among the white lower class. Solutrian, if I remember correctly, a parole officer or prison guard, sat mute with friends, while I, a man somewhat possessed, confronted her and her accomplices at Swarthmore about what they professed to believe. I also spoke of the lying by Jews and their deceit in involving America in wars. If Solutrian spoke, it was as one who was at best tentative and willing to let his betters, such as myself, attack the necessary lies by Swain and friends. I would have thought he remembered me fondly, but I guess not.
He like so many talk or write fiercely, but are short when asked to demonstrate genuine courage, moral or otherwise. I make no apologies for my performance then or for what I wrote and will continue to write about Gottfried, a truly despicable creature.
I posted the below before.
[url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16289&highlight=gottfried[/url] [QUOTE]Courage and other qualities that once distinguished western men of character have been belittled by not only those on the left, but such reputed conservative stalwarts as Thomas Fleming, Justin Raimondo (seemingly a favorite cocksucker of many on this forum) and Paul Gottfried, who writes of the West, but should not be trusted further than a knife could be place in his back. If this sounds harsh, I found Gottfried to be as dishonest and dishonorable as any person I have ever met. If a showdown comes, he will let his being a Jew by birth overwhelm anything he has written or publicly professed.[/QUOTE] Previously I posted on this thread [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12103&highlight=gottfried[/url]
[QUOTE]Be Careful of Paul Gottfried
Quote: Although I see no evidence that the Israelis deliberately blew up what they knew to be an American ship with the attack on the USS Liberty, I am bothered by the Pollard affair, which revealed the utter cynicism of the Begin-Shamir regime. Both of those leaders, and particularly Shamir, dripped with anti-Gentile malice and this may have been reflected in the way they treated their American "ally."
Gottfried has had a peculiar way of confronting unpleasant facts. He will deny them, but in what he must consider a genteel academic manner.
He claimed to have lost my manuscript and could not remember where it could possibly be. He asked me to rewrite some 200,000 words. I asked if he were bothered by my documenting the cowardice and lying by Jews, most particularly during American wars. He stammered that he was not. I asked where he was during the war in Vietnam. He did not reply.
I would trust Paul Gottfried about as far as I could stick a knife in his back.[/QUOTE]
The casual reader will deduce I am prone to sneak attacks with a knife, but this is not so. Please read what Gottfried has written when confronted by harsh choices. He will opt for being a loyal chosen one.
2005-01-28 16:42 | User Profile
I ask that Solutrian surface and reply. I am sending a much more pointed private message.
2005-01-28 17:36 | User Profile
Edward Gibbon has called Paul Gottfried "the most loathesome man he has ever met", and a liar to boot. He implies that Gottfried is a stealth Zionist and perhaps a mole in the paleocon movement working on behalf of the chosen tribe, or at least a defender of them when the political cards are dealt out. I do not know the extent of EG's association with Dr. Gottfried, but I assure you this is not an accurate description of the man and his views based on my experience with Dr. Gottfried. Nor do I consider him a despicable creature in any way. Dr. Gottfried is Jewish and of course wishes to downplay the excesses of his brethren, but he is surely on course with his political direction, and correct in the quoted material, save for the Liberty incident. EG is no doubt a brave and feisty man and takes up the cudgels for the good cause, but he also wanders intellectually in a Baroque way and it is hard sometimes to understand his elaborate analysis of issues. Indeed, it is hard to get a word in edgewise to him Disturbed? No, I don't think so, but eccentric in his manner. As to his standing as one of my betters, I will make no comment. My courage moral and otherwise will stand on its own.
2005-01-28 19:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=solutrian]Edward Gibbon has called Paul Gottfried "the most loathesome man he has ever met", and a liar to boot. He implies that Gottfried is a stealth Zionist and perhaps a mole in the paleocon movement working on behalf of the chosen tribe, or at least a defender of them when the political cards are dealt out.
Well other than his own interpretations of his writings, his only really personal claim to special knowledge of Pauls character lies in this famous "incident". [QUOTE]He claimed to have lost my manuscript and could not remember where it could possibly be. He asked me to rewrite some 200,000 words. I asked if he were bothered by my documenting the cowardice and lying by Jews, most particularly during American wars. He stammered that he was not. I asked where he was during the war in Vietnam. He did not reply.[/QUOTE] I don't know about everybody, but I know personally for me to keep track of every little tidbit or manuscript someone handed to me is quite a chore. Much less for someone like Gottfried who has a regular fulltime and more job doing that sort of thing for students, much less the same thing for his paleo writing career.
I don't know about you all, but in this age of the computer word processor, and even possibly failing that the ever present Kinko's, for someone to give up his only copy of a work he finds rare and valuble to a man he probably was already suspicious of strains the credibility a bit. In any event, granting that, it still is eccentric. The culture were people treated every work of writing, even from eccentric people, with monk like reverence as with the oracles of God seems rather far away to my mind. Whatever merit there was seems dissipated by EG's constant harping on this.
The sense of personal bad Karma that people like EG, (he certainly oisn't the only one) is I'm sure one of the reasons people are reluctant to leave the internet for the world of real people, real organizations, and real acccomplishments. While EG has his gripes, meeting EG certainly wasn't a pleasant experience for Gottfried, and incidents like his certainly don't encourage others to similar meetings.
Fade certainly was right, there are people in rightist circles who strike one personally as obnoxious if not odius. For whatever reason, it certainly doesn't do their positions or cause any good, and people who leave internet politics because of this cetainly deserve a fair amount of slack.
2005-01-29 16:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Well other than his own interpretations of his writings, his only really personal claim to special knowledge of Pauls character lies in this famous "incident".
I don't know about everybody, but I know personally for me to keep track of every little tidbit or manuscript someone handed to me is quite a chore. Much less for someone like Gottfried who has a regular fulltime and more job doing that sort of thing for students, much less the same thing for his paleo writing career.
I don't know about you all, but in this age of the computer word processor, and even possibly failing that the ever present Kinko's, for someone to give up his only copy of a work he finds rare and valuble to a man he probably was already suspicious of strains the credibility a bit. In any event, granting that, it still is eccentric. The culture were people treated every work of writing, even from eccentric people, with monk like reverence as with the oracles of God seems rather far away to my mind. Whatever merit there was seems dissipated by EG's constant harping on this..[/QUOTE]I had gone to Gottfriedôs house in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, little more than 2 hours drive from my place in suburban Philadelphia, on two (2) occasions. The last time was when the above incident occured.[QUOTE]I don't know about everybody, but I know personally for me to keep track of every little tidbit or manuscript someone handed to me is quite a chore. Much less for someone like Gottfried who has a regular fulltime and more job doing that sort of thing for students, much less the same thing for his paleo writing career.
I don't know about you all, but in this age of the computer word processor, and even possibly failing that the ever present Kinko's, for someone to give up his only copy of a work he finds rare and valuble to a man he probably was already suspicious of strains the credibility a bit.[/QUOTE]During the first visit I had given Gottfried my manuscript to read after he asked for it. This manuscript, not an only copy as [B]Okiereddust[/B] asserted, was more than 600 8-1/2 x 11 pages and with copied references included weighed almost 10 pounds. This was placed, not in a shoe box, but in a boot box.
Gottfried told me he could not remember what he did with it. I said I was sure he read it. I asked if he sent what I had written to the ADL. Then I asked if he regarded the interests and lives of Jews as being more important than Americans. I received no answer. All he did was bare his teeth in what he must have thought was a good imitation of Sylvester the Cat.
Then he told me thought he had mailed it to Bill Kaufman, a sometime contributor to magazines such as [I]Chronicles[/I]. I called and was informed Gottfried did not send it to him.
Yes - I regard Gottfried a damn liar whose intentions are not what many at this forum would like to believe.[QUOTE][B]Fade[/B] certainly was right, there are people in rightist circles who strike one personally as obnoxious if not odius. For whatever reason, it certainly doesn't do their positions or cause any good, and people who leave internet politics because of this cetainly deserve a fair amount of slack.[/QUOTE]Good Christ!!! Okiereddust quotes this despicable little shit to malign me. What is this board coming to?
2005-01-29 16:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Then he told me thought he had mailed it to Bill Kaufman, a sometime contributor to magazines such as [I]Chronicles[/I]. I called and was informed Gottfried did not send it to him.[/QUOTE]Its a sad story for you, for whatever reason, and I am sad it happened to you.
Yes - I regard Gottfried a damn liar whose intentions are not what many at this forum would like to believe.Good Christ!!! Okiereddust quotes this despicable little shit to malign me. What is this board coming to?[/QUOTE]My apologies here for writing this somewhat afterthought in a way that sounds like I was targeting you personally, which I really wasn't.