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Poll shows troops in favor of war

Thread ID: 16093 | Posts: 15 | Started: 2004-12-27

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Jack Cassidy [OP]

2004-12-27 06:27 | User Profile

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**[font=Arial][size=2]Poll shows troops in support of war [/size][/font]** **[font=Arial][size=2][/size][/font]** [font=Arial]By Robert Hodierne, Army Times[/font] [size=2][font=Arial]Despite a year of ferocious combat, mounting casualties and frequent deployments, support for the war in [/font][font=Arial]Iraq[/font][font=Arial] remains very high among the active-duty military, according to a Military Times Poll.[/font][/size] [font=Arial]Sixty-three percent of respondents approve of the way President Bush is handling the war, and 60% remain convinced it is a war worth fighting. Support for the war is even greater among those who have served longest in the combat zone: Two-thirds of combat vets say the war is worth fighting.[/font] [font=Arial]But the men and women in uniform are under no illusions about how long they will be fighting in Iraq; nearly half say they expect to be there more than five years.[/font] [font=Arial]In addition, 87%% say they're satisfied with their jobs and, if given the choice today, only 25% say they'd leave the service.[/font] [font=Arial]Compared with last year, the percentages for support for the war and job satisfaction remain essentially unchanged.[/font] [font=Arial]A year ago, 77% said they thought the military was stretched too thin to be effective. This year, that number shrank to 66%.[/font] [font=Arial]The findings are part of the annual Military Times Poll, which this year included 1,423 active-duty subscribers to *Air Force Times*, *Army Times*, *Navy Times* and *Marine Corps Times*.[/font] [font=Arial]The subscribers were randomly surveyed by mail in late November and early December. The poll has a margin of error of +/—2.6%.[/font] [font=Arial]Among the poll's other findings:[/font] [font=Arial]•75% oppose a military draft.[/font] [font=Arial]•60% blame Congress for the shortage of body armor in the combat zone.[/font] [font=Arial]•12% say civilian Pentagon policymakers should be held accountable for abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.[/font] *[font=Times New Roman][size=3][size=2]Contributing: The independent Military Times Media Group consists of four newspapers published by Gannett[/size] [/size][/font]*
--- ### Jack Cassidy *2004-12-27 06:47* | [User Profile](/od/user/1058) Jewish kids go off to the University of Chicago and study philosophy and gentile kids join the military. It is all well and good these misguided, flag-raising goobers think the war is worth it and Bush is doing the right thing and it's going in the right direction, but as a taxpayer footing part of the $1 billion per week for a debacle that is only putting me and my family and friends at greater risk and the object of hatred around the world, I say enough of this playing soldier. --- ### Happy Hacker *2004-12-27 06:52* | [User Profile](/od/user/118) And, when they were asked if Saddam was behind the 9/11 attack or if Saddam had WMDs, how many said "yes"? --- ### Angler *2004-12-27 19:06* | [User Profile](/od/user/230) Those who are content to risk their lives and spend time away from their families for a non-cause, a purpose that has nothing whatsoever with protecting the US or "fighting for freedom," are the perfect "useful idiots" for the neocons/Zionists. I have no sympathy for them. I do feel bad, however, for those who are stuck over in Iraq against their will. --- ### Jack Cassidy *2004-12-28 04:52* | [User Profile](/od/user/1058) [QUOTE=Angler]Those who are content to risk their lives and spend time away from their families for a non-cause, a purpose that has nothing whatsoever with protecting the US or "fighting for freedom," are the perfect "useful idiots" for the neocons/Zionists. I have no sympathy for them. I do feel bad, however, for those who are stuck over in Iraq against their will.[/QUOTE] It is one thing to go off and get maimed or die for a stupid war, e.g., Vietnam (not so stupid in theory), for there is something inherently honorable about fighting for your country. But to die, lose a limb or eyesight for a bogus cause, a constantly-changing phoney goal, and if you succeed the establishment of an Islamic theocracy (Shi'a) and an inevitable greater threat to you and your family in the U.S....?!!! --- ### Okiereddust *2004-12-28 06:03* | [User Profile](/od/user/29) [QUOTE=Angler]Those who are content to risk their lives and spend time away from their families for a non-cause, a purpose that has nothing whatsoever with protecting the US or "fighting for freedom," are the perfect "useful idiots" for the neocons/Zionists. I have no sympathy for them. I do feel bad, however, for those who are stuck over in Iraq against their will.[/QUOTE]Well I disagree somewhat. Generally kids joining the military aren't rocket scientists or their plitical equivalent to begin with. And remember, they feel they are fighting for American ideals and western culture against backwards mideastern muslims, which is certainly true. The way this basic impulse is being misused by the neocons is certainly far beyond the average G.I. Joe's ability to comprehend. I also think we should guard against developing a paleo attitude of effete internet snobbery, especially at places like the Phora, over these people, while hobnobbing with leftists. Its OK to feel anger over the war, but I think we also should realize the responsibility paleo's have within our ranks have for just not doing more in a concrete political sense to help popularize the conservative anti-war viewpoint that could resonate with these people. I'll get off my soapbox, but I do think we really could and should be doing more. --- ### Angler *2004-12-28 07:48* | [User Profile](/od/user/230) [QUOTE=Okiereddust]Well I disagree somewhat. Generally kids joining the military aren't rocket scientists or their plitical equivalent to begin with. And remember, they feel they are fighting for American ideals and western culture against backwards mideastern muslims, which is certainly true. The way this basic impulse is being misused by the neocons is certainly far beyond the average G.I. Joe's ability to comprehend. I look at it more in terms of self-deception on the part of the pro-war soldiers. There has been plenty of debate and strongly-expressed skepticism regarding the Iraq War in the public arena -- so much that anyone of even slight intelligence and education who is even the least bit open-minded about the issue should be able to learn that the Iraq invasion was staged on phony pretenses. The problem seems to be that many soldiers *want* to believe they are doing something good for this country, and so they *make* themselves believe all the BS about "freedom" and "spreading democracy." I just can't sympathize with people who engage in such self-deception, especially at such great cost to their families and, indeed, their country. > I also think we should guard against developing a paleo attitude of effete internet snobbery, especially at places like the Phora, over these people, while hobnobbing with leftists. Its OK to feel anger over the war, but I think we also should realize the responsibility paleo's have within our ranks have for just not doing more in a concrete political sense to help popularize the conservative anti-war viewpoint that could resonate with these people. I'll get off my soapbox, but I do think we really could and should be doing more.[/QUOTE]I've tried reasoning with neocons and members of the Glorious Imperial Legions (as Vietnam vet Thomas Chittum calls them) before. It's quite impossible. Those people have not only willingly submitted to brainwashing, they've *embraced* it. The soldiers in particular have this image of themselves as these courageous, honorable warriors who are selflessly *protecting their nation*, and it's an image they've fallen so deeply in love with that they'll never listen to anyone who tells them the brutal truth. No matter how politely you try to tell them they've been deceived, they just don't want to hear about it. It's a very frustrating situation. --- ### Angler *2004-12-28 08:01* | [User Profile](/od/user/230) [QUOTE=Jack Cassidy]It is one thing to go off and get maimed or die for a stupid war, e.g., Vietnam (not so stupid in theory), for there is something inherently honorable about fighting for your country. But to die, lose a limb or eyesight for a bogus cause, a constantly-changing phoney goal, and if you succeed the establishment of an Islamic theocracy (Shi'a) and an inevitable greater threat to you and your family in the U.S....?!!![/QUOTE] I draw a definite distinction between "fighting for one's country" and "fighting in a war at the orders of one's government." For example, no American fighting Iraqis right now is fighting for his country. If the US were invaded by Iraq, then that would be a different matter. Having said that, at least the Vietnam War was arguably a fight for *someone's* freedom, even though it had little to do with the security of the US. By contrast, the Iraq War is not even for the freedom of the Iraqis. It is a simple war of conquest on behalf of the Jews. --- ### Kevin_O'Keeffe *2004-12-28 15:27* | [User Profile](/od/user/929) [QUOTE=Jack Cassidy]Jewish kids go off to the University of Chicago and study philosophy and gentile kids join the military. It is all well and good these misguided, flag-raising goobers think the war is worth it and Bush is doing the right thing and it's going in the right direction, but as a taxpayer footing part of the $1 billion per week for a debacle that is only putting me and my family and friends at greater risk and the object of hatred around the world, I say enough of this playing soldier.[/QUOTE] Here, here! If these ignoramuses think playing tough guy is so fun, let them form vigilante groups at home for the purpose of ridding their own cities of the "gang" element. Oh, but the media won't heap praise upon them for that, so no danger of it ever coming to fruition. Somebody get these kids some friggin' books. --- ### Kevin_O'Keeffe *2004-12-28 15:35* | [User Profile](/od/user/929) [QUOTE=Angler]I've tried reasoning with neocons and members of the Glorious Imperial Legions (as Vietnam vet Thomas Chittum calls them) before. It's quite impossible. Those people have not only willingly submitted to brainwashing, they've *embraced* it. The soldiers in particular have this image of themselves as these courageous, honorable warriors who are selflessly *protecting their nation*, and it's an image they've fallen so deeply in love with that they'll never listen to anyone who tells them the brutal truth. No matter how politely you try to tell them they've been deceived, they just don't want to hear about it. It's a very frustrating situation.[/QUOTE] And when these people are told they have to, say, shoot people like us, in order to continue the fulfillment of their sacred mission as the courageous, ever-noble national defenders, do you really think they'll hesitate? Militarism is an idea that really is as dangerous as cliched leftists make it out to be. We need to uproot it from our culture and tell these hitmen-in-uniforms to get civilized or get lost. I'm very tired of indulging their childish fantasies about how morally superior they are because they shoot people and chuckle about it afterwards. I'm not talking about most people in the military (at least I certainly hope I'm not), but rather a vocal minority that has been pumped full of flattery by talk radio neo-cons, Christian Zionist preachers, and the like. --- ### Walter Yannis *2004-12-28 17:47* | [User Profile](/od/user/57) The sheeple - young and old, civilians and military - need to be taught a painful lesson about the futility of empire. That means that we need a war with Iran. And a draft. And a financial collapse. This poll proves that we still might get it. Folks really are that adept at lying to themselves. We the Sheeple have become masters of doublethink. The neo-Kahns' lies and the driving interests of the Shitty Little Country are too obvious for anybody with an IQ over 80 to miss. They know. And yet they love Big Brother and want to suffer and die for him. If they'll still gladly VOLUNTEER to fight when they know this war is based on damnable lies, doesn't defend America, in fact is counterproductive, is being fought in the interests of the Zionist Entity, then they deserve whatever they get. Those who deliberately lie to themselves about such important matters deserve little sympathy. The merely stupid I excuse. But that's not what it is for most. Most know in their hearts what this is about. But they lie to themselves about it, in a sycophantic effort to please their Chosen masters. I admit that with the war in Iraq going as badly as it is, the chances of a final, disastrous assault on the Axis of Evil is receding fast. At least for the time being. There is still hope, though. With the Iranians closing in fast on a nuclear warhead for their strategic missles, the neo-Kahns must be feeling pretty nervous. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Walter --- ### Ponce *2004-12-28 18:55* | [User Profile](/od/user/901) Remember that this poll of the military was taken by "The Military Times" I wonder what the answer would had been if taken by someone else? :wallbash: my happy holy wall banger. --- ### Jack Cassidy *2004-12-28 19:48* | [User Profile](/od/user/1058) [QUOTE=Angler]I look at it more in terms of self-deception on the part of the pro-war soldiers. There has been plenty of debate and strongly-expressed skepticism regarding the Iraq War in the public arena -- so much that anyone of even slight intelligence and education who is even the least bit open-minded about the issue should be able to learn that the Iraq invasion was staged on phony pretenses. The problem seems to be that many soldiers *want* to believe they are doing something good for this country, and so they *make* themselves believe all the BS about "freedom" and "spreading democracy." I just can't sympathize with people who engage in such self-deception, especially at such great cost to their families and, indeed, their country. I've tried reasoning with neocons and members of the Glorious Imperial Legions (as Vietnam vet Thomas Chittum calls them) before. It's quite impossible. Those people have not only willingly submitted to brainwashing, they've *embraced* it. The soldiers in particular have this image of themselves as these courageous, honorable warriors who are selflessly *protecting their nation*, and it's an image they've fallen so deeply in love with that they'll never listen to anyone who tells them the brutal truth. No matter how politely you try to tell them they've been deceived, they just don't want to hear about it. It's a very frustrating situation.[/QUOTE] Yep, vincible versus invincible ignorance. In the modern U.S. military the standards are relatively high. And the arguments against this war have been articulated much more clearly by the paleos and liberals than the reasons for going to war have been articulated by the neo-cons/Bushies. There is no excuse for supporting this war and those who do are at best guilty of vincible ignorance. --- ### Jack Cassidy *2004-12-28 19:50* | [User Profile](/od/user/1058) [QUOTE=Ponce]Remember that this poll of the military was taken by "The Military Times" I wonder what the answer would had been if taken by someone else? :wallbash: my happy holy wall banger.[/QUOTE] Military Times is not simpatico-- let alone lockstep-- with the Pentagon or military brass, they have proven this many times in the past year. --- ### Jack Cassidy *2004-12-28 19:58* | [User Profile](/od/user/1058) [QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]Here, here! If these ignoramuses think playing tough guy is so fun, let them form vigilante groups at home for the purpose of ridding their own cities of the "gang" element. [/QUOTE] Yeah, if we could use all the military resources being used around the Tigris and Euphrates and re-position it along the Rio Grande we'd be protecting America. But this requires an invasion of Aztlan and Jorge Bush views this more sovereign than Iraq, Syria, Iran, Ukraine, et al. --- ?>