← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Recluse
Thread ID: 15723 | Posts: 97 | Started: 2004-11-22
2004-11-22 00:49 | User Profile
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HUNTER GOES BERZERK IN WISCONSIN; AT LEAST FIVE DEAD Drudge Report ^
Posted on 11/21/2004 4:15:12 PM PST by Jotmo
EXELAND, Wis. - Five people are dead and three injured in a shooting incident that apparently began over a hunting dispute in western Wisconsin.
The confrontation began around noon in a rural area southwestern Sawyer County. Authorities said a hunting party returning to their deer shack reported seeing a hunter unknown to them occupying their tree stand. That led to a shooting.
One of the shooting victims used a walkie talkie to radio back to the deer shack for help. When the victim's hunting partners came to the scene, they were also shot.
Sawyer County was in a virtual lockdown as authorities searched for the gunman. One suspect was eventually taken into custody around 5:15 p.m.
The suspect's name has not been released.
Officials at Lakeview Medical Center in Rice Lake said they have treated at least three gunshot victims. They said one of the victims was transported to a hospital in Marshfield, WI. Another victim is in critical condition and is undergoing surgery. The third victim is in fair condition in the intensive care unit.
TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Wisconsin KEYWORDS: DEERHUNTING; HUNTING; SHOOTING; WISCONSIN
1 posted on 11/21/2004 4:15:12 PM PST by Jotmo [ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]
To: Jotmo I'm willing to bet this fellow was berzerk long before entering the woods today.
2 posted on 11/21/2004 4:17:27 PM PST by Quilla [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: Jotmo Not good. Sounds like he was waiting in the tree stand, and picked some of them off when they showed up to help. Look for liberal calls to ban deadly "Sniper Rifles".
3 posted on 11/21/2004 4:17:34 PM PST by Jotmo ("Voon", said the mattress.) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
To: Quilla I'd say that's a safe bet.
4 posted on 11/21/2004 4:18:18 PM PST by Jotmo ("Voon", said the mattress.) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies ]
To: Jotmo [B]It's been on the local news for the last 45 minutes. The suspect is in custody and he's a Hmong man from Minneapolis/St. Paul. Ten bucks says that by tomorrow morning the story will be that he opened fire because he felt victimized and threatened by the racism of those Wisconsin yokels. [/B]
5 posted on 11/21/2004 4:19:02 PM PST by brbethke [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
2004-11-22 02:20 | User Profile
Do you have knowledge about the ethnic identity of shooting victims?
Petr
2004-11-22 02:59 | User Profile
A victim is someone who dosent shoot back,,,,,,,,
2004-11-22 12:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]Do you have knowledge about the ethnic identity of shooting victims?
Petr[/QUOTE]
No, but the demographics for deer hunters in Wisconsin probably run somewhere around 95+% White. I know this has to be driving the Old Media pukes insane, here they thought they had a chance to further demonize one of their favorite targets, White males carrying guns for reasons other than fighting Israel's wars, and it turns out that that the perp is a non-White primitive. Oy vey! I've seen one brief report so far, on MSNBC, and the killer was identified only as a "Minnesota man". Time for the New Media to get to work and get this story out there.
2004-11-22 12:44 | User Profile
[B] - "Time for the New Media to get to work and get this story out there."[/B]
Amen to that.
Petr
2004-11-22 15:22 | User Profile
I've been listening to KGO all morning (one of the biggest radio stations in the USA), and they have reported on this story every 20-30 minutes. Never was it even faintly suggested that the murderer was a nonWhite. This is becoming an all-too-obvious rhetorical device, but never-the-less, can you imagine if it had been a White man who had shot five Hmongs to death in the woods?
For those with no first-hand experience with the Hmongs (I used to live in Merced, which is the town where some White guy shot to death half a dozen Hmong school kids, which subsequently led to the California ban on "assault weaopons" being passed in 1989), they are an especially worthless and filthy poeple - almost like the niggers of east Asia, in that they are lazy, stupid, ignorant, crime & violence prone, welfare dependent, chronically unemployed losers, nearly each and every one - the one good thing about them is that unlike some east Asians, their women tend to be hideously ugly, and thus don't present nearly as much of a threat of miscegenation. I don't think I ever heard of a Hmong, male or female, who had a non-Hmong mate. This is because no one else wants them.
2004-11-22 17:21 | User Profile
Well friends, they were "victims",,,,,,according to what I read this morning they only found ONE weapon among those who were shot and the only reason the guy didn't kill anyone else was because he ran out of bullets.
Does it make sense to you? one of the first ones who were wounded radio back for help and the rest of them went to see what was going on without weapons,,,,,not only were they victims but also stupid.
The shooter got lost in the woods because he didn't have a compas and other hunters pointed the way out for him, cops were waiting at the edge of the woods when he was arrested.
2004-11-22 22:51 | User Profile
[url]http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2004/11/five_hunters_ki.php[/url]
2004-11-22 23:30 | User Profile
When I first heard this story I didn't hear that he was a Laotian. I thought this is just the sort of thing the media loves, a chance to make a propaganda "documentary" about an incident that will fuel the gun control movement. When I found out he was a Hmong, I let out a sigh of relief. The media/Hollywood can't do much with this story... the perpetrator wasn't White.
2004-11-23 12:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE]When I found out he was a Hmong, I let out a sigh of relief. The media/Hollywood can't do much with this story... the perpetrator wasn't White.[/QUOTE]
Oh, but you're wrong. From today's AP:
[QUOTE]Vang was carrying an SKS 7.62-mm caliber rifle, a cheap but powerful semiautomatic weapon, authorities said......
Mike Bartz, the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resource's regional warden supervisor for the area, said the SKS is legal for hunting in the state and has no restrictions. He said it is not uncommon to see hunters with the guns.
"We see more and more of them being used. They're a fairly cheap weapon. They fire a cartridge very similar to a .30-30, which is a very common weapon used for deer hunting," Bartz said.
....Locals in the Birchwood area, about 120 miles northeast of the Twin Cities, have complained that the Hmong, refugees from Laos, do not understand the concept of private property and hunt wherever they see fit.
Killed Sunday were Crotteau, 42; his son Joey, 20; Al Laski, 43; Mark Roidt, 28; and Jessica Willers, 27. Denny Drew, 55, died Monday, and two others remained hospitalized with gunshot wounds.
In Minnesota, the arrest has left some Hmong citizens in his hometown fearful of a backlash. About 24,000 Hmong (pronounced "mung") live in St. Paul, the highest concentration of any U.S. city.
In Wisconsin, the shooting has provoked a different kind of tension.
"It's pathetic. They let all these foreigners in here, and they walk all over everybody's property," said Jim Arneberg, owner of the Haugen Inn in nearby Haugen.[/QUOTE]
and [I]this [/I] touching bit of photojournalism:
[IMG]http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_photos/08/06/20041122223609990011[/IMG] [I]Sang Vang, the suspect's brother, comforts suspect's mother. [/I]
That's two distinct Jewed-up 'storylines' for ya:
a] The Evil Gun Whose Only Purpose Is To [B]Kill![/B]
b] Law-Abiding Hmong Fearfully Await Racist Massacre
If this had happened ten years from now, there could've been a third storyline as well:
c] "Private property" - outdated racist concept devised to keep nonwhites in chains and/or poverty
In case you maybe missed it, the dead white men are tagged and bagged and stacked up like interchangable lengths of cordwood....the American media couldn't care less about them except to brandish their corpses as Exhibit A for new anti-gun legislation...otherwise they are treated as mere statistics and let's face it - thgey were probably racists as well. (After all, they're all white, they're wearing orange jackets, they're out in the woods like [I]Hitlerjungen[/I] scouting out locations for a torchlight rally...obviously up to no good...probably drinking beer and swapping 'nigger jokes' and off-color stories about 'strong women'.)
However, at least in death, these men can atone for lives lived in utter shameful whiteness - by helping America understand and reach out to its suffering, noble Hmong community. [I]Look [/I] at mama-san in that photo, for pity's sakes! Surely the unfortunate deaths of some John Rocker-wannabes is offset by the pain in her face, no? See, it's nobody's fault, really...well, besides the gun manufacturer and those beer-swilling racist deer-hunters....it's just [I]all a terrible tragedy[/I].
2004-11-23 13:19 | User Profile
Il Ragno, That's some of the best and funniest sarcasm I've heard in years. LOL!
2004-11-23 15:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=travis]Il Ragno, That's some of the best and funniest sarcasm I've heard in years. LOL![/QUOTE]
Travis,
He was not being sarcastic. He is predicting how the liberal media will spin this incident.
[QUOTE]In Minnesota, the arrest has left some Hmong citizens in his hometown fearful of a backlash. About 24,000 Hmong (pronounced "mung") live in St. Paul, the highest concentration of any U.S. city.[/QUOTE]
Why should they fear a "backlash" from a population so brainwashed in the joys of multiculturalism? It was just an isolated incident by a deranged lunatic that could belong to any group after all......except if a white man did it.
If I remember correctly, the story about why so many Hmong were brought to this country was because they helped US troops during Vietnam and that after the war they were being persecuted and exterminated by both Laos and the Viet Cong and so many were given asylum here. At least that is how I remember the media's version.
2004-11-23 16:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]However, at least in death, these men can atone for lives lived in utter shameful whiteness - by helping America understand and reach out to its suffering, noble Hmong community. [I]Look [/I] at mama-san in that photo, for pity's sakes! Surely the unfortunate deaths of some John Rocker-wannabes is offset by the pain in her face, no? See, it's nobody's fault, really...well, besides the gun manufacturer and those beer-swilling racist deer-hunters....it's just [I]all a terrible tragedy[/I].[/QUOTE]
Excellent, razor sharp stuff, IR.
Hmong? I'm sure those racist deer hunters sound just like Hank Hill:
"So are you Chinese or Japanese?"
Were that they were back in China or Japan and these poor Wisconsin folks would still be alive today. Death by immigration. We should start a 'Death By Immigration Watch'.
2004-11-23 16:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Excellent, razor sharp stuff, IR.
Hmong? I'm sure those racist deer hunters sound just like Hank Hill:
"So are you Chinese or Japanese?"
Were that they were back in China or Japan and these poor Wisconsin folks would still be alive today. Death by immigration. We should start a 'Death By Immigration Watch'.[/QUOTE]
Hmong are a real problem in Wisconsin. Some group of gimlet-eyed Church Lady types in Rhinelander (North Central Wisconsin) worked hard to get lots of these folks moved into that formerly lily white town (Irish and German).
We're such a bunch of morons.
IR: great job on exposing the Yahoodian media spin on this. The white victims aren't even mentioned.
2004-11-23 16:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]Hmong are a real problem in Wisconsin. Some group of gimlet-eyed Church Lady types in Rhinelander (North Central Wisconsin) worked hard to get lots of these folks moved into that formerly lily white town (Irish and German). [/QUOTE]
Now would be a real good time to pinpoint exactly who that was and send out a few letters to editors stating something to the effect that these Wisconsin natives would be alive today if it weren't for those bleeding hearts.
2004-11-23 16:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=skemper]If I remember correctly, the story about why so many Hmong were brought to this country was because they helped US troops during Vietnam and that after the war they were being persecuted and exterminated by both Laos and the Viet Cong and so many were given asylum here. At least that is how I remember the media's version.[/QUOTE]
They were mercenaries in our employ, and thus we never had any debt of honor to them; it was just another excuse to bring in more nonWhites. Had the KGB supplied the Viet Cong with a sufficiency of gold ingots, they would have been killing our guys (and thus, like the Vietnamese, they'd STILL be over here, one way or another - or do we all really believe the myth about how only virulently anti-Communist "South" Vietnamese who struggled on "our" side have been permitted to take over large swaths of my adopted hometown of San Jose, not to mention much of Orange County and other parts of the state? Please.)
While not quite as bad as the degenerate Hmongs, the Vietnamese are creepy people. Just being in the same room with them makes one want to wretch (Hmongs make you actually do it).
The picture of that fat, ugly gook whore crying (only for the misfortune her son brought upon himself, not for the six dead Whites, whom I have no doubt she loathes beyond description for having "caused" this misfortune to come about) fills me with the desire to slap her dumb, animal face so hard my hand might break. That may sound a little over-the-top, but try living somewhere you love, and watch as that place is over-run by these ugly, pushy, snotty, arrogant, lying, slimy, greasy, unwashed, smelly, lousy (as in lice), greedy, materialistic, trendy, whoring, pimping monstrosities, and see if you can keep it cool when the subject of them comes up. It ain't easy.
2004-11-23 16:58 | User Profile
Nothing like hunting White Mountain Pigs to put on the table on this holiday instead of a turkey.
2004-11-23 18:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]They were mercenaries in our employ, and thus we never had any debt of honor to them; it was just another excuse to bring in more nonWhites. Had the KGB supplied the Viet Cong with a sufficiency of gold ingots, they would have been killing our guys (and thus, like the Vietnamese, they'd STILL be over here, one way or another - or do we all really believe the myth about how only virulently anti-Communist "South" Vietnamese who struggled on "our" side have been permitted to take over large swaths of my adopted hometown of San Jose, not to mention much of Orange County and other parts of the state? Please.)
While not quite as bad as the degenerate Hmongs, the Vietnamese are creepy people. Just being in the same room with them makes one want to wretch (Hmongs make you actually do it).
The picture of that fat, ugly gook whore crying (only for the misfortune her son brought upon himself, not for the six dead Whites, whom I have no doubt she loathes beyond description for having "caused" this misfortune to come about) fills me with the desire to slap her dumb, animal face so hard my hand might break. That may sound a little over-the-top, but try living somewhere you love, and watch as that place is over-run by these ugly, pushy, snotty, arrogant, lying, slimy, greasy, unwashed, smelly, lousy (as in lice), greedy, materialistic, trendy, whoring, pimping monstrosities, and see if you can keep it cool when the subject of them comes up. It ain't easy.[/QUOTE]
The part of the story about them being paid mercenaries never came up, of course. I was just remembering the Reader Digest version. And your accessment about the the crying Hmong mother about her murdering son and the six dead whites is dead on. Many third world groups have that mentalily. I wonder if the Hmong's family will enact vengence against the dead people's families for causing the "tragedy" that has come upon their loved one. And I have been around Vietnamese. They eat things that the "Fear Factor" would never dream of getting their contestants to eat.
Another factor that Walter points out is that churches have sponsered many of these groups. One church publication that I read a while back stated that the Hmongs were Christians. I find that hard to be true.
2004-11-23 18:52 | User Profile
Correction - that was Wausau, Wisconsin where the church ladies brought them in, not Rhinelander. Not far away, but for the record.
The Atlantic Monthly published a story on this:
[I]The Ordeal of Immigration in Wausau - 94.04[/I]
As I recall it named names.
[URL=http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/wdhlocal/280335284077134.shtml]Here's [/URL] an article from one of our local rags.
Walter
2004-11-23 19:30 | User Profile
How could not one of those hunters manage to kill this subhuman Kong when he started blowing off rounds? Now the candlelight vigils are on and the Whites will be moping around looking for answers and reaching out for dialogue with Hmongoids.
The media seems to obfuscate the racial overtones. Can you imagine what would happen if the gook was a White man and his victims were Hmongoids??? There'd be nightly tv discussions by 'experts' on the glories and contributions of the brown gooks to American society along with PBS specials on the history of their migration from Third World rice patties to metropolitan American cities and the 'hardships' they had to go through.
2004-11-23 19:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]How could not one of those hunters manage to kill this subhuman Kong when he started blowing off rounds?[/QUOTE]According to what I read today only one of them had gun.
Also the news reports said the guy hunted them - chased them down and killed them. Not a happy situation at the end I'm sure.
2004-11-23 20:09 | User Profile
Well, at least the mother of the killer is expressing tears of sympathy for the six white victims.... [img]http://cdn.news.aol.com/aolnews_photos/08/06/20041122223609990011[/img] [size=1][color=red]"Mufuk bong tang! Kok suk [/color][/size]*[size=1][color=red]mofo! [/color][/size] [size=1][color=red]Tong kai [/color][/size][size=1][color=red]blo waa hon kee[/color][/size][size=1][color=red]!"[/color][/size]* ** [size=1]Translation: "Oh son! Those [/size] [size=1]poor whites! Now they'll miss[/size] [size=1]Thanksgiving dinner!"**[/size]
2004-11-23 20:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=skemper]If I remember correctly, the story about why so many Hmong were brought to this country was because they helped US troops during Vietnam and that after the war they were being persecuted and exterminated by both Laos and the Viet Cong and so many were given asylum here. At least that is how I remember the media's version.[/QUOTE] I remember that story too. I think their saga is similar to the Montagnard tribesman of the Vietnamese central highlands. And I do recall that both groups did endure enormous suffering.
If I recall, Laotians are one of the poorest performing Asian groups in America (measured by perfect of people on public assistance, etc.). Of course for people like the Hmong it doesn't surpise me. They are primitive tribespeople, who have been uprooted and living in refugee camps for much of the past 30 years, Not the sort of experience that builds ethnic success stories.
Personally though I don't have anything against the Hmong though. If we wish they were back in Southeast Asia, they wish so doubly in my experience. Its just a tragic set of circumstances. I don't think its really comparable though to the situation with people like the Somali's, as these people are genuine political refugees.
The problem is we bring these people to America, treating them like blacks, and a lot of them do start to act like blacks bigod.
2004-11-23 20:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]They were mercenaries in our employ, and thus we never had any debt of honor to them; it was just another excuse to bring in more nonWhites. Had the KGB supplied the Viet Cong with a sufficiency of gold ingots, they would have been killing our guys (and thus, like the Vietnamese, they'd STILL be over here, one way or another
I'm not sure actually that to these types of people money was that important. I think you're confusing them with Mexicans. It was a complex situation how they were recruited actually, but its not like they all became millionaires living in Tahiti. Our government in the past certainly failed these people.
[quote=Kevin_O'Keeffe]- or do we all really believe the myth about how only virulently anti-Communist "South" Vietnamese who struggled on "our" side [/QUOTE]I never heard any such myth. The stories I heard seem more typical like from the G.I.'s.
The colors of the South Vietnamese flag (Yellow and Red) are certainly appropriate. Most of the people are yellow, and the rest are red.
2004-11-23 21:30 | User Profile
This is just pulled from my local station's website. The Hmong is playing the race card already. So what they called him derogatory names, he was tresspassing and hunting on private property. Notice what his brother and "cultural" wife say. "Cultural wife", now that is a new term. Since the victims were calling him racist names, the Hmong could now claim self- defense in a hate crime and get off with a light sentence.
[url]http://www.thecarolinachannel.com/news/3942115/detail.html[/url]
[B]Suspect In 6 Hunters' Deaths Says They Called Him Racist Names Six Hunters Slain, Two Injured[/B] POSTED: 8:23 am EST November 23, 2004 UPDATED: 2:36 pm EST November 23, 2004
HAYWARD, Wis. -- The suspect in the killings of six Wisconsin deer hunters says they shot at him first.
Documents filed in court Tuesday reveal that Chai Vang, 27, told investigators that he was shot at first, after some of the victims called him racially derogatory names. Vang is an immigrant from Laos.
A judge set bail at $2.5 million.
Vang was arrested about four hours after the shootings Sunday, as he emerged from the woods with his empty semiautomatic rifle. Officials said Vang and the hunters argued over Vang's use of a hunting stand on private property.
Members of the Hmong community in St. Paul, Minn., where the suspect lives, held a news conference Tuesday to condemn the killings. Vang is a member of that community.
Vangââ¬â¢s relatives said they don't know what went wrong Vangââ¬â¢s relatives visited him briefly in a Wisconsin jail.
[B]Vang's brother said he doesn't believe the reports about Vang, because he's "one of the nicest persons." His brother said, "Maybe something provoked him." He said Vang is a father of six and served in the U.S. Army.
A woman describing herself as Vang's cultural wife said she's "in shock."[/B]
A Minnesota lawmaker who's also an immigrant from Laos said reports that cultural differences played a role in the shooting are probably wrong. In her words, "He's probably crazy."
Police said the shootings followed a dispute over the use of a tree stand on private property.
Chai Vang is accused of killing six deer hunters and wounding two more in a dispute over a hunting platform on private property during the opening weekend of deer season.
A sixth hunter died Monday night from injuries suffered in the shooting. Two other people who were wounded in the attack remain hospitalized.
Two other people were wounded in the attack in northwest Wisconsin Sunday.
Authorities said the shooting happened after the trespasser, carrying a semiautomatic rifle, opened fire on the hunters and didn't stop until his 20-round clip was empty.
Although authorities do not know why he allegedly opened fire, there have been previous clashes between Southeast Asian and white hunters in the region.
2004-11-23 21:38 | User Profile
The murdering little ba*tards statement: (PDF Format)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[url]http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/nov04/statement112304edits01.pdf[/url]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Story in newspaper:
The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Online [url]www.jsonline.com[/url] Return to regular view
Original URL: [url]http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/nov04/277915.asp[/url]
Suspect says hunters provoked him Vang says he was surrounded, called names and shot at before shootings By JOHN DIEDRICH, LEE BERGQUIST and TOM HELD [email]jdiedrich@journalsentinel.com[/email] Posted: Nov. 23, 2004
Hayward - The suspect arrested for shooting eight hunters, killing six of them, says he was surrounded by the group, called derogatory racial names and shot at before he opened fire, according to court records released today. 46758Northwoods Shootings Suspect Chai Soua Vang Chai Soua Vang, 36, of St. Paul, Minn., is suspected of shooting eight hunters, killing six of them. Suspect's Statement Court document (pdf): Probable cause statement, including interview with suspect (Note: Some obscenities expunged)
Recent Coverage 11/21/04: 5 killed, 3 hurt in hunting rampage 11/22/04: 6th victim dies from Sunday's shooting 11/22/04: Alleged shooter was avid hunter 11/22/04: Victims gathered at deer camp every year Video: TMJ4 reports
What happened Graphic/Enrique Rodriguez What happened
The account from Chai Soua Vang to investigators differs sharply from details released Monday by the Sheriff's Department and from the accounts of the victims, who describe an essentially unprovoked shooting rampage by Vang, a 36-year-old Hmong man from St. Paul, Minn.
Vang, a truck driver, is suspected in the slayings of six hunters and the wounding of two others, according to a probable cause determination signed by Circuit Judge Norman L. Yackel here this morning.
Vang is being held on $2.5 million cash bail. His next court date is Dec. 20.
The document gives two versions of events that differ on key facts such as who shot first, how many guns the group had and what was said, or not said, between Vang and the group.
Vang gave this account to investigators, according to the document:
Vang said that he was hunting on private land, got lost and climbed up an empty tree stand. After 15 minutes, another hunter confronted him.
Vang said that he responded that he didn't know it was private land and didn't see any "no trespassing" signs. Vang said he got down and started to walk away and then heard the other hunter call over his walkie-talkie. Two all-terrain vehicles carrying five or six men quickly arrived.
The group surrounded him, called him racially derogatory names and ordered him off the land. Only one in the group had a gun, Vang said. Someone wrote down Vang's hunting license number and said law enforcement would be called.
Vang said he started walking away and saw the man with the rifle take it off his shoulder. Vang said he looked back again, when he was about 100 feet from the group, and the armed man was pointing the rifle at him.
Then, Vang said, he dropped to a a crouch position and the man fired a shot at him, hitting the ground 30 to 40 feet behind Vang.
Vang said he took off the scope of his SKS semi-automatic rifle and fired two shots at the armed man, who dropped.
The other unarmed hunters ran and Vang fired, with two or three men dropping, he said. Two other men ran toward the cabin, about a quarter-mile away, and Vang said he chased one, who was yelling, "Help me. Help me." Vang said he got within 20 feet and shot the man in the back.
Vang said he walked up to the man who groaned. Vang then walked away. Investigators believe that was 20-year-old Joey Crotteau, who died at the scene.
Vang heard one of the men call on a walkie-talkie, saying "We've been shot and need help."
Vang reversed his blaze orange vest to a camouflage and reloaded his 20-round magazine with five or six bullets. Vang said he saw three more men arrive on an ATV but didn't shoot at them because they had rifles. The men spent a short time with the wounded and then left, Vang said.
Another ATV arrived with two people on it - Jessica Willers and Al Laski - one of whom had a gun, Vang said. Authorities said Monday Willers and Laski arrived at the scene unarmed.
Vang said he ran and the ATV drove by him. When they saw him, Vang said, the ATV stopped. He said Laski removed his gun from his shoulder. Vang said he fired three or four times and both people fell off the ATV.
Vang ran back to the original shooting scene, saw one of the victims standing and said, "You're not dead yet?" and fired one more shot.
Vang said he didn't want to shoot anyone else and threw away his ammunition.
Authorities said only one rifle was found at the scene of the shooting.
Lauren Hesebeck, injured in the shooting, gave a different account to investigators. According to that account:
Terry Willers confronted Vang for trepassing and called his friends. Robert Crotteau, Joey Crotteau, Hesebeck, Dennis Drew and Mark Roidt arrived on ATVs. There was another verbal exchange.
Vang started to walk away and at 40 yards, took the scope off his gun, turned and started firing on the group, Hesebeck said. Willers shot back and then was hit and went down, he said.
Vang then shot and hit Drew and Roidt. Hesebeck said he attempted to hide behind the ATV. Vang moved around it and shot Hesebeck in the shoulder, Hesebeck said.
Vang chased Robert and Joe Crotteau who ran and shot them. Hesebeck called for help. Other men arrived and took Willers away. Hesebeck said he saw another ATV approach and heard more gunshots.
Officials said the Wisconsin Attorney General's Office will prosecute the case, because of its scope and complexity.
Meanwhile, the two survivors continued to improve, officials said.
Willers was upgraded from serious to fair at St. Joseph's Hospital in Marshfield today.
Hesebeck was released from the hospital Monday night before 9 p.m.
Theresa Hesebeck, also the sister of Denny Drew, who died Monday night, said the family was trying to regroup on Tuesday morning and that her husband was recovering at home.
"Your place is at home at a time like this," she said.
The couple have a blended family that includes seven children.
David Drew, a brother of Denny Drew, said Tuesday he was trying to come to grips with the death of his brother and close friends.
A prayer vigil is set for 7 tonight at the Holy Trinity Catholic Church in Haugen, where three of the victims lived.
Complete coverage of this story will appear online later today and in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel in the morning.
2004-11-23 21:52 | User Profile
Documents filed in court Tuesday reveal that Chai Vang, 27, told investigators that he was shot at first, after some of the victims called him racially derogatory names. Vang is an immigrant from Laos.
I suspect that's a steaming load of BS, but don't expect to hear it reported when forensics bears that out. Even if it's true, the zipperhead apparently chased down some of the vicitms to finish them off. Now, that doesn't bode well, cause even here in the knuckle-draggin' land of Texas, you're not allowed to plug someone that's no longer a threat, which someone lying on the ground bleeding certainly isn't. Still, the little shit is smart enough to play the system because he knows how desperately the press wants to spin this as "provoked" by racism. If this ever gets to trial, and there's a Hmong or two on the jury (likely, IMO given the demographics of the region) you can at the very least expect a hung jury, if not an outright OJ-style verdict.
My fervent hope is that the guy never makes it to trial. I mean, he's just slaughtered in cold blood, a bunch of people whose relatives have access to scoped rifles and know how to use them, presumably. That Kevlar vest the cops slap onto high-profile perps will most assuredly not stop a .30-06 round. My second wish is that the whites there finally see this as the straw that broke the camel's back. You can only tolerate so much, especially since everyone following this story knows how it would be played out had the races been reversed. But, this may just become another opportunity to come together and heal the wounds of racism or somesuch.
"Nothing to see here, just move along up the chute there, cattle."
I'm just mad as hell about this...
2004-11-23 22:10 | User Profile
Check out the commentary with the story posted at American Renaissance:
[url]http://www.amren.com/mtnews/archives/2004/11/five_hunters_ki.php[/url]
And some info from Liberty Forum: [url]http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_crime&Number=293126383&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=293125184#Post293126383[/url]
FBI info on Hmong crime: [url]http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2194/is_2_72/ai_98253655[/url]
Story & more @ National Vanguard : [url]http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=4238[/url]
New Nations News forum: [url]http://www.nnnforum.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=14902[/url]
2004-11-24 01:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE]The account from Chai Soua Vang to investigators differs sharply from details released Monday by the Sheriff's Department and from the accounts of the victims, who describe an essentially unprovoked shooting rampage by Vang[/QUOTE]
That makes it official then: this story is now primed to be dramatized as a LAW AND ORDER next season. The hunters will be turned into drunken, hooting, racist frat boys who come from money. (The leader will be blond-haired, blue-eyed and will have the current issue of NATIONAL VANGUARD in his pick-up). The Hmong character will be [I]slightly [/I] amended to a graduate student who gets lost in the woods while researching his Masters' dissertation on woodland ecospheres when he stumbles across the six drunken hunters who by that time are loaded enough to be just itching to torture a nonwhite, any nonwhite. The peace-loving Hmong endures a terrible beating, but it's only when the whites drop their trousers to gang-rape him that he grabs one of their rifles and kills them all in a white-hot moment of totally justified rage.
When details of the victims' racist beliefs are made known to him, crusading DA Jack McCoy cuts a lenient plea bargain with the Hmong and then takes aim at the real villains here - the parks department, who went along with a blatantly racist policy of 'no trespassing on private property' by refusing to build tree stands on public land at taxpayer expense. He loses the case, but takes solace from helping initiate IRS audits of the victims' families in the coda.
At five minutes of, we'll get [I]'scenes from the next episode of LAW AND ORDER[/I]' where'll we see McCoy haranguing a sobbing 10-year-old Boy Scout on the witness stand: "Isn't it a fact that you hate your scoutmaster because [I]you're gay yourself[/I]?!?"
Must See TV. And you better [I]believe [/I] it's comin'.
2004-11-24 04:55 | User Profile
The Vietnam war still paying dividends. After 1000 American soldiers were killed and there was no immediate victory in sight, we should've turned Southeast Asia into a smoking carbon field with Westmoreland releasing a statement: "You don't tug on Superman's cape. The Vietnam war is over."
The little yellow thing up in Wisconsin will spend the rest of his life in a maximum-security prison being traded from cell to cell for a pack of cigarettes.
2004-11-24 13:47 | User Profile
Of course the nightly "news" last night played up the testimony of the gook claiming he was shot at first after being racially slured. What BULLSH!T! Let's see what the survivors have to say for their side of the story before broadcasting what the gook "victim" claims happened.
2004-11-24 14:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]Of course the nightly "news" last night played up the testimony of the gook claiming he was shot at first after being racially slured. What BULLSH!T! [/QUOTE] I first heard the perp's allegations of 'racism' yesterday evening on the radio from NPR, no less. The whole tone of the report made me so angry that I wanted to punch my radio. :evil: This whole thing is infuriating. I'm afraid Il Ragno has nailed exactly how it is going to play out. :wallbash:
2004-11-24 15:14 | User Profile
Before we are [inevitably] drowned in a sea of [I]noble Hmong [/I] agitprop: a bit of reality.
[I]Professor, if you please - ![/I]
[url]http://www.findarticles.com/p/artic..._72/ai_98253655[/url] [COLOR=DarkRed] [FONT=Century Gothic]Throughout the United States, the number of Hmong gangs and the level of their criminal activity is increasing in severity. Their participation in criminal activity has evolved over time. During that evolution, they have become involved in a wide range of crimes, such as homicides, gang rapes, prostitution, home invasions, burglaries, auto thefts, and, most recently, the sale and distribution of illicit drugs.
The crime of rape, however, with its violent nature, its strong incorporation into the gang's operational structure, and the serious implications for the victim and the overall Hmong community, represents a particular concern to the law enforcement profession and requires a special focus to find ways of decreasing its occurrence. To this end, the law enforcement community must examine the unique structure of Hmong gangs, including their historical and cultural influences, and the characteristics of the "ritual" use of rape by these gangs and the impact on the victims.
(1) Exploring Hmong Gang Structure
The Hmong gangs started forming in St. Paul and Ramsey County, Minnesota, in the mid-1980s. (2) The first Hmong gang in Minnesota, the Cobra gang, began as a group of teenage friends who played on a soccer team. At the time, the majority lived in housing projects and banded together to protect themselves and other Hmong youth from the racism occurring in their schools and neighborhoods. Eventually, some members of the Cobra soccer team became involved in crimes, leading to the evolution of the Cobra gang. These crimes started out as fights, thefts, and other minor crimes, but soon led to more serious crimes, such as auto theft and aggravated assault.
Around 1988, some 10-and 11-year-old Hmong youths wanted to become members of the Cobra gang. After being told that they were too young, they decided to start their own gang, the White Tigers. The White Tiger gang was, perhaps, the first Hmong gang to break into gun shops to obtain weapons. They would steal a car, drive it through the front door of a gun shop, and have individuals go into the store, break the glass out of the gun cases, and scoop guns (usually only semiautomatic handguns) into a bag. In just a few minutes, the gang could acquire 20 to 30 guns. With these weapons, the White Tigers became the first of the active and violent Hmong gangs in Minnesota.
In addition to these two gangs, several others, such as the Oroville Mono Boys, Oriental Ruthless Boys, and Asian Crips, exist in Minnesota and throughout the country. These gangs, comprised of many members, operate in California, North and South Carolina, Rhode Island, Washington, Oregon, Colorado, Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin.
Because Hmong gangs are not as organized as African-American and Hispanic gangs in leadership and rank structure, their members do not need to ask a leader for permission before committing a crime. In fact, some members of the gang may not know that their own members have perpetrated a crime. In addition, Hmong gangs often resort to violence, as was the case in the St. Paul/Minneapolis area during the summer of 1999. Within about a 6-week period, at least 22 reported shootings resulted in two deaths and 14 injuries. The majority of these shootings occurred among four rival gangs, the White Tigers, Oroville Mono Boys, Purple Brothers, and Oriental Ruthless Boys. This violence primarily resulted from the abundant availability of guns within the gangs and the need to "save face" by not backing down or showing weakness to a rival gang.
Moreover, Hmong gangs have considerable mobility. It is not uncommon for gang members to drive from California to North Carolina, stopping en route to visit fellow gang members in other states, such as Minnesota or Wisconsin. Many times, these gangs transport guns to another state and commit crimes in transit. Because of this mobility, law enforcement agencies investigating these gangs must maintain a high level of communication to effectively track gang activity.
Understanding the Role of Rape
In addition to their violent tendencies toward rival gang members, the Hmong gangs also present a violent threat to people who are not members of gangs. The most frequent and violent crimes against nongang members are rape and prostitution.
Since 1997, authorities have received reports of several gang rapes, kidnappings, prostitution rings, and other violent sexual assaults involving Hmong gang members. The majority of the victims in these incidents are juvenile Hmong females. For example, during the fall of 1997, St. Paul officers conducted an investigation involving members of three Hmong gangs meeting juvenile Hmong females on the "G-Line" (a message service using an access code where individuals can leave messages and others can listen to them). Mainly used by gang members who would call and disrespect rival gangs, the service also attracted young females who would call to listen to the messages. In such cases, some of the victims, 12 to 15 years old, arranged to meet the gang members from the "G-Line." The victims went willingly with the males, but, in one case, the victim was kidnapped. The girls thought that they were just going for a ride or to a party. Instead, gang members took them to an attic of a garage or a house, turned off the li ghts or put a blanket over their heads, and raped them. The gang members called this "doing the Ninja" as the victim could not identify who had sexually assaulted her. Several different cases, with multiple victims, occurred over a period of time. However, the first victims did not report the assault until several days later, and the other victims had to be located and asked to make police reports. Gaining the trust of the victims and working in the Hmong community eventually led authorities to arrest and obtain convictions of eight members of three different gangs.
While other such incidents occurred in Minnesota, the mobility of Hmong gangs resulted in similar crimes in other states. For example, in Warren, Michigan, several members of a Hmong gang were arrested for repeatedly raping teenage girls who they had held prisoner for nearly 3 weeks. The gang had kidnapped some of the girls and also had transported others from state to state and prostituted them. The victims came from Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan.
Also, authorities in Fresno, California, uncovered a similar case when the first three victims, 12to 14-year-old Hmong girls, came forward in April 1998. Members of the gang held the girls for 2 days at a local motel. After further investigation, officers discovered several other victims who agreed to come forward. Investigators identified a total of 33 victims between January 1997 and April 1998. The gang had held the victims anywhere from 2 days to 3 months.
The lead investigator stated that the case was so large that officials had to pursue it in three phases. (3) In the first phase, the grand jury handed down 350 indictments on 14 suspects. Eleven of the suspects pled guilty and received sentences ranging from 17 to 31 years in prison. Two other gang members got 280 years and 4 months and 94 years and 4 months, respectively, in prison. The second phase consisted of the grand jury handing down a 323-count indictment and several of the suspects pleading guilty. The third phase included 9 victims and 20 suspects, in which the grand jury handed down an 826-count indictment. Several suspects pled guilty and others were found guilty. The lead investigator also said that during the 2-year investigation, 10 percent of the victims stayed with the gang and were not threatened by its members. The rest were lured, kidnapped, and forced into unwilling participants. The gang held the victims against their will, repeatedly raped them, and forced them into prostitution. Gang members displayed guns and beat and threatened those victims who tried to leave..... [/FONT] [/COLOR]
2004-11-24 15:55 | User Profile
Someone familiar with Hmongs comments ;
[url]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1286876/posts?page=98#98[/url]
I have lived around Hmongs of his variety since they first came here in the late 70s
They have been taught well by the liberal social workers...on how to beat the white man's system...steal his tax money and spit on him for his stupidity
Play the race card?...its the one truly American thing they are really good at...WI is one big Hmong vending machine as are the US taxpayers are their cash cows
Every hear of the Refugee Resettlement fund?...It was spitting out $150,000 plus per family...in addition are low to no interest loans for businesses, homes, cars you name it...no collateral no money down and low low payments...miss a payment or two no problem...default on the loan disqualifies you for another...no way...and you are eligible to bring more family members here from Laos or Thailand...
They come to Central WI by the plane load...no quarantine...no medical work....they have the right to spread any diseases they have...you have the right to remain silent.
The second and third generation have become cops and social workers and are now learning how to really work the system...and from the inside as well as the outside...
Years back the first Hmong cop they hired had been convicted of rape...but this was waved...as it was considered a cultural heritage issue...and part of the marriage ceremony..even though he didn't marry the girl that was raped...it was unbelievable how the Chief of Police and the mayor sold this individual to the public..I wonder who was pulling their strings...
Social Services has been inundated with rape, incest, battery cases, especially spouse abuse..the hardest part is keeping up with the cover up...
Naturally the local govt and the media play a great part in that...
Those who once helped us fight Vietnamese communism have been converted to the US domestic brand...as it pays so well....
The public schools have been turned into gang bangers wreck rooms...and they cant be touched...they are protected minorities...one local Leo told me...that they were told to not arrest any of them unless they were committing a felony..
The smart folks who can HOME SCHOOL When the Hmong community in Wausau, WI was growing opium on their collective farm land (a few hundred yards from the police firing range) the Chief of Police said he couldn't figure out who to arrest because "There were too many of them"...More likely the word came down from DC ...leave them alone..
The Hmong gangs are involved in drugs prostitution and violent crime ( I have seen what they do to their own little girls 13 and 14 yr olds a friend owns a motel and the bangers had abandoned a couple of youngsters in one of his rooms naked and in drug induced comas..)...they run their operations from Minneapolis St. Paul through Eau Clair , Wausau, over to Green Bay and throughout the Fox Valley
They have little if any respect for our game laws or private property and there have been many incidents were large groups of them just enter peoples property and start killing animals and we were advised not to get in their way...just call the cops...
The authorities are called..but they must call a "mandatory' interpretor who imo is VERY selective about what he 'interprets' as he is one of them....
I have yet heard of one Hmong who arrested for trespassing let alone went to jail...when predators find out they can do what ever they want with little if any consequences...it is like ringing the dinner bell
Locals who have complained about their property broken into and their possessions stolen have been told that there really isn't anything the law can do for them...they were pretty much on their own but warned not to take the law into their own hands...as these are property crimes and not big concern for leos...
One of our best local restaurants used to have a trout pond in front of the place once they Hmongs moved in..his pond was emptied faster than he could replace the fish...he had to give up and finally filled it in..
No one arrested...you are on your own....but don't hurt one...or you are in trouble
The US govt brought over an intact ARMY from Laos...an Army of opium growers and marketers and dumped them on US taxpayers...and Army of aliens who had no idea how to behave in America and not much of an interest in learning what is or is not appropriate behavior Once upon a time they may have been US allies...but from my experience this is no longer the case...
These are organized criminals not refugees in the classic sense...my guess is this scum bag will be excoriated by a few of the elders for show...pretty much like the so called 'moderate' Muslims do...
The rank and file imo will consider him a real warrior having killed 6 of their armed enemies...(more like he killed 6 of their cash cows)
A few of the elders will be trotted out to disown Vang...and quiet down the rhetoric and head off any criticism of the authorities...
We can all thank the liberals as this whole mess is pretty much the work of the Democrats and their friends
..especially Dave Obey...I like to think Mel Laird would never have done this to Central WI...but its pretty obvious Dave Obey doesn't give a rip what he does to the tax payers as long as those who write the checks get their hands on that refugee resettlement money...
The local Central WI papers are owned and controlled by Gannet news service a notoriously left wing liberal rag that deliberately downplays crimes by Hmongs and other minorities while at the same time amplifying those of whites...especially crimes against any of their minority pets.
This crime will not be prosecuted as a hate crime but I can guarantee the locals city mothers will be working over time trying to convince the locals of the Hmongs innocence and their great contributions to the community blah blah blah...they do this kind of damage control every time their little pets bite any of the locals.
Can someone make the case for the Hmongs doing better socially then they did when they first came here...frankly only superficially...not too mention the just keep coming from Laos and so a whole new batch has to be trained up...and of course excused for their crimes as they cant/wont be held responsible by the local government...
The locals always expected to 'suck it up' and pay for it without complaining....
Which they pretty much do
Not that anyone who could do something...actually would
The locals do not get a voice in the issue and anyone who protests too much or points out the truth will be ganged up on and painted as a racists....its their libs MO in these matters..
A few summers back one of the head Hmong honchos threatened to burn the town down if the Hmongs were not granted status as Vietnam Veterans and began to get disability pensions...It wasn't enough for them to be draining state welfare and Social Security disability (oh yes many of them are on Social Security disability...one of the first things they qualify for once they get here...there is a whole social work dept dedicated to helping them qualify for this..) they wanted to get their fingers in the Veterans Administration pie as well...
When they were denied this they got pretty angry and threatened...the local news papers and TV just let this whole threat go...as did law enforcement...
Of course the liberal Marxist press is always ready to excoriate anyone who tried to shine light on these criminals and their crimes or their threats
Of course if you are an American living on one of the border towns adjacent to Mexico or a large city with a urban ghetto.. I guess this kind of thing is old hat...and the death toll in this incident is probably typical of a 72 hr. period or less..
For those of us in Central WI who have witnessed the quality of life of our hometowns deteriorate over the last twenty years...though not entirely surprising such deaths are shocking..and anger provoking..
IMO Though truthfully I can't see the Dems or Repubs coming to the rescue here or down on the Mexican borders...after all it's the politicians who are the problem almost as much as their so called refugees and illegal aliens
IMO
98 posted on 11/23/2004 2:19:40 PM PST by joesnuffy ("The merit of our Constitution was, not that it promotes democracy, but checks it." Horatio Seymour) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
2004-11-24 16:29 | User Profile
More here:
[url]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1285788/posts?page=104#104[/url]
To: Max Combined We've been having "problems" for years with Hmong Immigrants grasping concepts like Bag Limits,Seasons,Slot sizes for fish,Game birds vs. songbirds,Private Property,etc. here in Eastern Minnesota and Wisconsin. If you hear a news story about a bowhunter being shot during the fall,95% of the time it is a Hmong out squirrel hunting.(Apparently,In their culture, hunting means blindly blasting away at anything in the trees whether they've identified it or not.)
The other one Game Wardens find occasional is the trunk full of song birds or the 30 gallon garbage can full of Sunfish and only two guys fishing.
Their standard response has always been to claim ignorange of the law or local customs and then to accuse people of racism.
104 posted on 11/22/2004 6:22:02 PM PST by HP8753 (Bypass Online News Sites Registration>>>> [url]www.bugmenot.com[/url]) [ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]
2004-11-24 21:45 | User Profile
Seems that the murdering little fish head eating bag of garbage is a son of the Hmong General Vang Pao. Pao was the leader of the Hmong who were fighting for the CIA when the CIA were up to their eyeballs running opium out of S.E.Asia. Now we are being told that WE owe the Hmong a place at our (welfare) table because these noble savages were on "our" side during the Vietnam war.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Note: Links in original article posted @ National Vanguard.
Killer Plays Race Card
News; Posted on: 2004-11-24 03:10:48
Hmong immigrant admits killing six Whites, says they called him names, fired first. Living witness says otherwise in court documents.
A sixth hunter died Monday night from injuries suffered in a massacre committed by Hmong immigrant Chai Vang. Denny Drew, 55, of Rice Lake, died Monday at St. Joseph's Hospital in Marshfield, his family announced. Two other people who were wounded in the attack remain hospitalized.
The dead were identified as the landowner, Robert Crotteau, 42; his son Joey Crotteau, 20; Al Laski, 43; Mark Roidt, 28; Jessica Willers, 27; and Denny Drew, 55. Willers' father, Terry Willers, remained hospitalized Tuesday in fair condition, while the other wounded hunter was released.
Sawyer County Circuit Judge Norman Yackel ruled Tuesday there was sufficient evidence that Vang committed six counts of first-degree intentional homicide and two counts of attempted first-degree intentional homicide. He set bail at $2.5 million. Vang will appear in court Dec. 20, court records said.
Vang says the group made racist comments and told him to get off the property. As he walked away, he says he saw one White man point a gun at him and shoot. That's when he opened fire, according to court documents filed Tuesday.
The documents also show that at one point, Vang looked up and saw one of the men was still standing and Vang yelled, "You're not dead yet?" Vang says he shot one more time at the man. He also told investigators, as he was running away, he decided he did not want to shoot anybody else so he threw the rest of his ammunition into a swamp.
Vang's brother, Sang Vang, 33, said the killer was provoked by derogatory racial comments. "He is a reasonable person," he said.
One of the witnesses, a hunter who was wounded in the shootings, gave a statement contradictory to Vang's. Lauren Hesebeck said a member of the hunting party shot at Vang only after he started firing at them and that no racist comments were made, according to court documents.
Sawyer County Sheriff James Meier said there is evidence that Vang was "moving around" as he stalked his victims. "I can only assume by the location of the bodies and the type of woods they were in, that he would have had to be moving around in order to inflict that kind of damage on that many people," Meier said.
Meier also said that Vang fired over 20 rounds at the hunters from his semiautomatic, and that two victims were knocked from their all-terrain vehicles as they approached the scene, while others were "chased down" and shot in the back.
Vang, unmarried, is a part-time truck driver and the father of six children. He served in the U.S. Army for six years and speaks "pretty good English," the brother said. According to the Milwaukee Sentinel, Vang achieved the status of "sharp shooter" while in the Army.
Vang had been arrested once before, on Christmas Eve 2001 in Minneapolis, after brandishing a gun and telling his "wife" he was going to kill her, said Ron Reier, a spokesman for the Minneapolis Police Department. He was arrested on a felony complaint of domestic assault, Reier said. He added there had been two domestic violence calls to his home in the past year, but both were "resolved without incident." Meanwhile, Fox News reported that Vang had been arrested twice for threatening with a firearm, but the charges were dropped when the girlfriend refused to testify. (The issues surrounding Vang's criminal history remain cloudy due to extremely vague controlled media reports.)
"We don't really know what went wrong. We don't know," said Deu Khang, describing herself as Vang's cultural wife, not his legal wife. "I am in shock. I don't have anything to say. I don't know what to say."
Vang's mother, Sao Hang, 54, does not speak English and declined comment through an interpreter.
Cha Vang is the son of Hmong leader General Vang Pao (pictured), a well-known opium trafficker and former commander of the CIA's secret army in Laos from 1960 to 1975. No details are available as to where "General" Pao is at the present time.
There are roughly 74,000 Hmong immigrants in Wisconsin and Minnesota, according to the 2000 census. Many of the very pushy Hmong consider General Pao to be a "hero" and have demanded that numerous parks and bridges [in both states] be named after him.
Judge Sets Bail for Killer Suspect Says He Did Not Fire First Suspect's Family Bewildered at Killings The Southeast Asia Connection Secret War, Secret Strategy in Laos Guns, Drugs and the CIA
Source: Jeff Hook ââ¬Â¢ Printed from National Vanguard ( [url]http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=4242[/url] ) National Alliance ââ¬Â¢ Box 90 ââ¬Â¢ Hillsboro ââ¬Â¢ WV 24946 ââ¬Â¢ USA NationalVanguard.org
More CIA & Drugs: Check the names in this article:[url]http://www.wethepeople.la/sa.htm[/url]
T.R.C. Thailand Revolutionary Council
Date. June 28, 1987
To:
U.S. Justice Department Washington, D.C. U.S.A.
Subject Important facts for the Drugs Eradication Program to be successful.
Sirs:
This letter to the US Justice Department is to make it clear about our deepest concern in wishing to help eradicate drugs and for all the American people as well as the world to know the truth that for the past (15) years they have been misled to look upon us as the main source of all the drug problems.
1. The refusal of the United States government to accept our "SIX YEARS DRUGS ERADICATION PLAN" presented at the Congressional Hearing by Congressman Mr. Lester Woff after his visit to Thailand in April 1977, was really a great disappointment for us. Even after this disappointment, we continued writing letters to President Carter and President Reagan forwarding our sincere wish to help and participate in eradicating drugs. We are really surprise and doubtful as to why the US government refuses our participation and help to make a success of the drugs eradication program.
Furthermore, why the world has been misled to accuse me as the main culprit for all the drug trades..... while in reality, we are most sincere and willing to help solve the drug problems in South East Asia. Through our own secret investigation, we found out that some high officials in the US government's drugs control and enforcement department and with the influence of corrupted persons objected to our active participation in the drugs eradication program of the US government so as to be able to retain their profitable self-interest from the continuation of the drug problems. Thus, the US government and the American people as well as the world have been hoodwinked.
2. During the period (1965 - 1975) CIA Chief in Laos, Theodore Shackly, was in the drug business, having contacts with the Opium Warlord Lor Sing Han and his followers. Santo Trafficano acted as his buying and transporting agent while Richard Armitage handled the financial section with the Banks in Australia. Even after the Vietnam War ended, when Richard Armitage was being posted to the US Embassy in Thailand, his dealings in the drug business continued as before. He was then acting as the US government official concerning with the drug problems in Southeast Asia. After 1979, Richard Armitage resigned from the US Embassy's posting and set up the "Far East Trading Company" as a front for his continuation in the drug trade and to bribe CIA agents in Laos and around the world. Soon after, Daniel Arnold was made to handle the drug business as well as the transportation of arms sales. Jerry Daniels then took over the drug trade from Richard Armitage. For over 10 years, Armitage supported his men in Laos and Thailand with the profits from his drug trade and most of the cash were deposited with the Banks in Australia which was to be used in buying his way for quicker promotions to higher positions.
Within the month of July, 1980, Thailand's english newspaper "Bangkok Post" included a news report that CIA agents were using Australia as a transit-base for their drug business and the banks in Australia for depositing, transferring the large sum of money involved.
Verifications of the news report can be made by the US Justice Department with Bangkok Post and in Australia.
Other facts given herewith have been drawn out from out Secret Reports files so as to present to you of the real facts as to why the drug problem is being prolonged till today.
3. Finally, we sincerely hope in the nearest future to be given the opportunity to actively take part in helping the US government, the Americans and people of the world in eradication and uprooting the drug problems.
I remain,
Yours Respectively Khun Sa
Vice Chairman Thailand Revolutionary Council (T.R.C.)
And this:[url]http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/pandora/POW.html[/url]
THE POWs, CIA and DRUGS
UGLIER TRUTHS BEHIND THE SARIN GAS STORIES
by Michael C. Ruppert
Published 7-23-98
é COPYRIGHT 1998, 1999, 2000 Michael C. Ruppert. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Permission to reprint or excerpt only if the following appears: "Reprinted by permission, Michael C. Ruppert & From The Wilderness at www.copvcia.com."
Did the CIA order the use of Sarin gas to kill American defectors in Southeast Asia? The answer to that question opens a black hole of ugly truths about U.S. foreign policy and covert operations. Those truths all lead to a central reality, which is that covert and paramilitary operations, as conducted by the U.S. Government, do not exist without drug trafficking. Equally tragic is the fact that drugs are a main reason why POWs didn't come home. The irony on the tragedy is that drugs were also used to fund several sabotaged covert missions to rescue them.
The recent CNN reports on Operation Tailwind (referenced in the last issue of From The Wilderness), their retraction and the object lessons made of CNN Producer April Oliver and Peter Arnett point to much uglier and deeper truths about CIA covert operations than the fact that CIA used nerve gas to kill defectors and deserters in Southeast Asia. As From The Wilderness will show, there is a high probability that Sarin gas was used not only against defectors, but also against unwilling prisoners of war whom the government had decided would be a major embarrassment if they came home alive. Testimony and evidence exists to show that Sarin was in Laos at the time and that it was used at or near known POW camps in Laos. If true, those facts would shed a whole new light on the CNN stories.
Those stories, flawed in their presentation, not only hinted at an ongoing feud between elements of the Navy and CIA, but came dangerously close to far more devastating truths about the CIA's involvement in the abandonment and murder of US servicemen left behind after Vietnam. Those truths undeniably lead back to the drug trade, the Central Intelligence Agency and the covert operatives who have destroyed American democracy.
How does one tie the convoluted pieces together in a coherent manner? And, doing that, how does one stomach wanton betrayal of loyal Americans and values which are the foundation of any government's legitimacy? A government derives its right to exist from its mandate to protect its own people, especially those who risk life to serve it. What legitimacy then, does a government have which betrays and then sentences to death those who stood in the font lines of its exercise of power?
First, let's address the issue of whether or not CIA, MACV-SOG and elements in the Pentagon wanted POW's dead or, at minimum, to ensure that they never came home?
Many of the ugliest truths about deliberate U.S. abandonment or ordered extermination of POWs are extremely well documented in Monika Jensen-Stevenson's 1990 bestseller, Kiss The Boys Goodbye (Dutton). Stevenson, a former Emmy award winning Producer for CBS News' 60 Minutes, produced mountains of eyewitness statements, documents, and even admissions from Ronald Reagan and other White House officials as well as from intelligence experts in the Pentagon and the National Security Council showing that: the U.S. knowingly left POWs behind in Southeast Asia in 1973; the U.S. government sabotaged at least a half dozen rescue attempts with high probabilities for success; and that, the U.S. government ordered covert operatives to "liquidate" live POWs if sighted.
On Pages 318-323, Stevenson described a failed 1981 POW rescue mission involving the perennial "covert source" (and often hard to fathom) Scott Barnes who wrote a book about the mission entitled BOHICA (Bend Over Here It Comes Again). After passing polygraph and truth serum exams Barnes recounted how he had been issued atropine (nerve gas antidote) injectors as a prelude to entering areas in Laos where POW camps were known to exist. He also states that, once in the region, he was ordered to "liquidate the merchandise." "Merchandise" was the code word for POWs. (NOTE: Atropine was issued to U.S. troops in the Persian Gulf war to counter anticipated Sarin attacks by Iraq).
If Barnes' statement was not enough, his return from the mission was immediately followed by the alleged violent suicide of Army chemical warfare and Sarin gas expert General Bobby Robinson. Local police doubted the suicide findings of the military.
What's more, Robinson was known to have been involved in moving Sarin supplies into the region at the time. Stevenson confirmed this. Sources postulated a cover story to Stevenson that Robinson had been planting Sarin gas to blame the Soviets for its use and thus motivate Congress to increase chemical warfare budgets. Such operations are not unusual in covert operations and are hardly grounds for a suicide. As one source put it to me. "It's much more likely that Robinson could have exposed the use of his Sarin to kill Americans and he had to be killed - especially if he found out what his precious chemical agents were used for."
Several covert warfare veterans have told me that they absolutely believe that Sarin was used under CIA orders against U.S. personnel using deep cover operatives planted in the "Studies and Observation Group" which had reverted to Pentagon control after a 1968 turf battle.
The turf battle may have put SOG back under nominal Pentagon control but it did not stop members of the shadow government and CIA from infiltrating to protect the deepest of dirty secrets. The OSS faction in CIA has no trouble "sheep dipping" people into the Pentagon or any other U.S. Government agency.
Much of the CNN story fell because the Pentagon found no records of Sarin use. Experts like Special Forces Captain John McCarthy, who ran covert ops for CIA while in Special Forces, were quick to point out that the records would all be at Langley and not at the DoD. A CNN electronic bulletin board with more than 2,500 angry responses from veterans pointing out flaws in the retractions was suddenly removed on July 16.
The can of worms was getting legs that wouldn't go away. It was starting to walk off into cyberspace.
How big was the POW problem? Informed sources place the number of American POW's not returned, in spite of Henry Kissinger's outright lies to the contrary, at near 2,500. Add to that the large number of defectors and deserters remaining in the region and the way these men sometimes became intermingled and we see the first part of the reasons for betrayal. McCarthy told From The Wilderness that in 1968 there were known to be some 3,000 deserters living in the Saigon suburb of Cholon alone. Estimates for the whole of Southeast Asia, including Thailand and Laos rose as high as 8,000 according to other sources. Numbers that high would again have brought the legitimacy of the government, and the military into question.
With the signing of the Paris Peace Accords Richard Nixon, in a secret agreement, promised the Vietnamese government some $4 billion in aid to guarantee the return of POW's left behind. This was after Kissinger's announcement that there were no more POW's left in Asia. With Watergate and the collapse of the Nixon Administration the money was never exchanged and the POW's went from desperate cause to a major potential embarrassment. So goes the cover story.
The best way to explain the connection with drug trafficking is to show the correlation in people and organizations between the two issues.
The names of some of those who have been connected to CIA drug trafficking by a multitude of sources are: Ted Shackley (CIA Station Chief in Laos and later Saigon), Tom Clines (Shackley's deputy), Richard Secord (Air Force/CIA liaison to Shackley after flying many missions as a fighter pilot), General Heinie Aderholt (Chief Air Operations strategist for CIA's undeclared war in Laos), Richard Armitage (former Navy officer and covert operations specialist charged with removing key materiel from Vietnam in 1975), Erich von Marbod (Defense Department), John Singlaub, William Casey, William Colby and Oliver North. Other key figures who turn up throwing monkey wrenches into POW rescue efforts who have not been connected to drugs but who turn up in key positions during Iran-Contra or the Bush Administration are Richard Allen (Reagan National Security Adviser who helped write the Paris Peace Accords), Colin Powell (Joint Chiefs Chairman and National Security Adviser to George Bush) and Col. Richard Childress, a National Security Council staffer under Ronald Reagan.
Key institutions connected to CIA drug trafficking include the Nugan-Hand bank, Hawaii investment firm BBRDW (Bishop, Baldwin, Rewald, Dilingham and Wong) and last but not least, the CIA itself.
How do these connect to the POW's?
As Station Chief in Laos Ted Shackley ran the single largest covert operation in CIA's history, a war financed almost in its entirety on the proceeds of heroin. That war was fought almost exclusively by Hmong tribesmen and a Laotian rebel Army under the command of General Vang Pao, an opium warlord who derived his entire budget from heroin. Legion are the stories of CIA's involvement in drug trafficking to fund that war but one anecdote is telling. Former Air America pilot Bucky Blair, who flew supply missions to CIA's Site 85 in Laos, sitting on a remote mountain top, told me that when he flew in to make his drops he could "see the poppy fields stretching out for miles in all directions." Site 85 was overrun in 1968 and eleven live Americans were captured. Imagine what they might have told under the intense torture of Pathet Lao or North Vietnamese interrogators and how that could have been used as propaganda against an America already disintegrating under the war? Imagine what they might have told other POWs they met as they were moved from camp to camp?
Imagine the damage that might have been done in 1985-6 as some of the most intense rescue efforts were being mounted and as stories of CIA drug trafficking in Central America were starting to circulate in the press and Congress?
Did Air America brief Blair on the opium? "I was briefed one time and told that we were moving small amounts of opium for legitimate pharmaceutical uses," he answered. The world's supply of pharmaceutical heroin is less than five percent of total world production. Shackley's CIA pilots could have supplied the world for a year in about a month. This does not take into account the brave testimony of other Air America pilots like Tosh Plumley and Bo Abbott who have spoken out directly about Air America's direct transport of opium in vast quantities over a period of years.
Shackley and his deputy Clines turn up heavily again in Iran-Contra connected to Richard Secord and Ollie North. A former CIA officer told me in 1995 that Ollie North was leasing office space for his 1995 Senate run from Shackley's company, Research Associates International, in Rosslyn, Virginia.
Estimates of live POWs taken in the undeclared (illegal) war in Laos from POW researchers, families and military sources rise as high as 600 according to Stevenson.
In the Reagan Administration, Richard Armitage as an Assistant Secretary of Defense was the Pentagon's highest-ranking official in charge of covert warfare, arms shipments and POW affairs. Colin Powell, in 1995, referred to Armitage as his white son. Armitage was linked directly to CIA drug trafficking by, among others, the POW's champion, Ross Perot.
John Singlaub, who was quoted in the Sarin gas stories as saying he would have placed a high priority on killing POW's and defectors because they might have compromised military secrets, commanded MACV-SOG during Vietnam and would have had knowledge of SOG operations targeting Americans. He was also a major player in Iran-Contra, dispersing weapons purchased with drug money and engaging in fund raising activities intended to divert attention away from the NSC and Oliver North. I am saving North for last.
The documentation for the involvement of Richard Secord, in Iran-Contra is voluminous and his role in CIA operations in Laos is equally clear as documented by letters from POW family members requesting that Secord be queried about Site 85. Drugs were central to both wars.
General Heinie Aderholt is a mixed bag. While undeniably involved in Laos and as a low-profile operator in Iran-Contra, (connected to the illegal take-over of Bob Fletcher's Florida toy company to establish a front for arms shipments), Aderholt chose to oppose the official line and fight for missing POW's. He confirmed secret intelligence reports revealing the existence of live and obtainable POWs in the region to families and the press.
Bill Colby and Bill Casey need little clarification except to say the Bill Casey was DCI when many of the most intense rescue efforts came into being - and failed. And Colby, who ran the Phoenix Program in Vietnam, was DCI from 1973-6 and on the Board of Directors of the Nugan-Hand Bank.
The Nugan-Hand Bank and its successor firm BBRDW were high rolling investment-banking operations, both of which laundered covert drug profits for CIA. Some of those monies were allocated to POW rescue operations by military elements who refused to abandon their comrades. It is also well documented, however, that millions of dollars were collected by scam artists connected to these firms from hopeful POW families and supporters for rescues, which never took place. That money bought nice vacation homes and went to other unworthy causes.
If we examine the rescue side of the POW issue we come across men like retired Green Beret Lt. Colonel Bo Gritz, Ross Perot and the ubiquitous Oliver North. Gritz undertook two missions into Southeast Asia, both of which were connected in one way or another to the Army's highly secret Intelligence Support Activity (ISA). In Bo's book, Called To Serve (Lazarus, 1991) he talks about a period of time in 1979-80 when he was undercover at Hughes aircraft in Culver City as preparation for his first mission. So, coincidentally, was Oliver North - a fact which Bo neglected to mention. I think I know why. A retired Hughes executive phoned me in 1997 and described the office shared by Gritz and North as having a large picture of a Bengal Tiger on the wall with the caption, "If you can't sleep with the tigers, stay out of the den." He also stated, "You could see them out jogging together every day."
The ISA, which ran Gritz's mission, was created by Army General Richard Stilwell. It has been repeatedly linked to drug smuggling by sources including the daughter of Col. Albert Carone who served as Oliver North's bagman and bill-payer during the eighties. Records left behind after Carone's death in 1990 and eyewitness statements clearly indicate that Carone handled both drugs and drug money for CIA, North and the NSC. Carone's personal phone book contains the home addresses and telephone numbers of William Casey, Gambino crime boss Pauly Castellano and Stilwell. Further hard evidence, in the form of CIA and DIA cable traffic linking to drugs, ISA and DIA operations surfaces in Gary Webb's Dark Alliance (Seven Stories, 1998). These cables and law enforcement records tie Scott Weekly to the drug operations of Norwin Menses, Danillo Blandon and Ricky Ross. Weekly, a firearms master, is Gritz's self-described best friend and went on POW missions to Southeast Asia with Gritz. Coincidentally again, Weekly is an Annapolis classmate of Ollie North.
I have met Bo Gritz twice through my close friend, Mrs. Francis Gary (Sue) Powers. That Bo was, and remains, irrevocably committed to the cause of the POWs cannot be disputed. That Bo brought back utterly damning videotaped interviews with opium warlord Khun Sa in which Khun Sa described the roles of Shackley, Armitage, Clines, and the CIA in heroin trafficking also cannot be disputed. That Bo was a leader in exposing CIA's long standing proprietorship of the international drug trade also is beyond question. But these revelations, taken as a whole, leave wide open the likelihood that, with or without Gritz's knowledge, his own efforts to rescue POWs, as sponsored by elements of the Pentagon, were funded by drug profits. In 1980 the official U.S. Government policy was that cocaine was less harmful than marijuana.
[NOTE: I omit here, discussion of Gritz's alleged white supremacist or racist views because I have never heard him speak or seen him write such views. I will say that if Bo believes in or advocates white supremacy or racism in any form I disagree with him wholeheartedly.]
Then there is Ross Perot. No man in American history has been more closely linked to the cause of the POW's and their families than the Texas billionaire. In late 1986, after funding one rescue mission and spending years as a thorn in the side of the Reagan Administration as he battled national security roadblocks and the outright deception which ultimately condemned the POW's to death, Ross Perot backed six-foot, power weight lifter Richard Armitage into a corner and confronted him with not only the evidence of Armitage's lying about POW's but his direct involvement in Vietnamese gambling and CIA drug trafficking. After going to then Vice President George Bush, and being summarily dismissed, Perot's efforts leaked to the Boston Globe and TIME Magazine. Armitage then lost his almost certain appointment as Secretary of defense under President George Bush.
I have spoken to Perot twice and I served as the L.A. County Press Spokesman for his '92 campaign. While I, like many, was crushed by his conduct in pulling out of the race, I have absolutely no doubt that Ross Perot is absolutely unbending in his belief that illegal drugs cannot be used to serve a good purpose - anywhere, at any time.
That leaves us with Ollie.
During the Contra years Oliver North contracted with a small British Security firm, KMS, run by a former SAS Major named David Walker, to carry out commando raids against the Sandinistas. AP, the Washington Post and Congressional hearings all brought out the fact that Walker's company conducted a few marginally successful attacks and provided some air logistic support to the Contras. What was not reported was that North, according to sources I have found in the last three months, was using KMS to train mercenaries for a POW rescue mission inside the Soviet Union. That operation was funded with drugs and the payments were made in London, at the St. George Hotel and through channel island banks by Albert Carone. Sources in Britain and former members of U.S. Army Special Forces described to me how North's plan, which involved training of mercenaries in Morocco and the Ivory Coast, neared success as, "his people got close enough to touch" the skilled electronics warfare officers who had been shipped to Russia for money by Vietnam during the war. But, inexplicably, they never came out. The British source added that North, if he had succeeded, "would have become President of the United States."
The Sherlock Holmes cliche says, "Once you have eliminated the impossible, the improbable, no matter how unlikely, is the answer." The POWs remain, as unrequited ghosts, an embarrassment of astronomical dimension to the U.S. government. Any reporter asking a POW who, what, where, when and how would inevitably pull the covers on some of the U.S.'s dirtiest secrets. But more than that the question needs to be asked, "Did abandoning the POWs serve a purpose in U.S. foreign policy?" The answer is yes.
In 1993 a former Green Beret officer told me, at the point of tears, of how he had been ordered in 1968-9 to rendezvous with Russian Spetnatz commandos in the central highlands of Vietnam. There, under direct orders from the CIA, he exchanged millions of dollars in hard U.S. currency for Russian diamonds. This was at the height of the Vietnam War. Russia's economy (its ability to support North Vietnam) was on the brink of collapse. The hard U.S. currency salvaged Russia's ability to buy needed imports on world markets.
Bobby Garwood, the heroic Marine who remains the only POW ever to return alive, told debriefers at DIA of the amazement the North Vietnamese, struggling with a stone age economy, had at his ability to assemble a simple gasoline generator and the power of a light bulb. He stayed alive because he could fix American things.
Ted Shackley, in his book The Third Option lays out detailed blueprints for the survival of the military-security-industrial state by means of perpetuation of "low intensity" insurgent wars in which it might be necessary to arm both sides of a conflict to keep the military skills sharp and the war machine going. The fact that major U.S. industrialists armed and financed every enemy from Adolph Hitler, to Ho Chi Minh, to Saddam Hussein is well documented and beyond the scope of this article.
Covert operations in Southeast Asia continued unabated after the fall of Saigon in Laos, Cambodia and Thailand. They were all financed by heroin, which remains the largest source of capital in the region. Vietnam is now emerging in a world capitalist economy as a consumer and provider of services. Is it coincidental that Henry Kissinger's associate and later Secretary of State Lawrence Eagleburger was on the first secret mission to explore rapprochement with Vietnam? Is it a coincidence that Col. Richard Childress, who stonewalled POW families for so long, became a Southeast Asian investment consultant in 1990? Is it a coincidence that President George Bush dispatched Richard Armitage to the former Soviet Union as a special economic adviser or that almost immediately after his arrival there was an explosion of drug use in Russia?
I think that the POWs were commodities who, as one CIA source put it to Stevenson, were "Chosen by God to stay" as a form of plausibly deniable economic assistance to enemies we needed to keep in place until other pieces of a larger plan were complete. That phase of the plan was complete in 1990 when Litton Chairman Roy Ash's prediction of one world under state capitalism would come into being. The Soviet Union was dead and Vietnam.was on its way to becoming a trading partner. Ash made that prediction in 1972.
So why kill them? If covert operatives could get close enough to kill POWs then men like Gritz or Jerry Daniels or Ross Perot could get close enough to rescue them. Defectors, enjoying freedom of movement could have surfaced at any time with POW stories as their imagined ticket back home. And that would have upset The Plan and revealed the U.S. government to be as morally bankrupt as the Third Reich.
2004-11-24 23:51 | User Profile
Six Palestinians die every day in Palestine and many more civilians in Iraq so what's the big deal about six getting killed here?,,,,, a life is a life.
"Only to a saint is the Devil evil",,,,,, Ponce.
2004-11-25 01:09 | User Profile
More from Vdare.com
Hmong Shooter Apparently a Polygamist [Brenda Walker]- 11/23/04
Chai Vang, 36, is reportedly a naturalized citizen who has been living here 25 years. Many of the news stories refer to a culture clash between Hmong and Americans, which is not exactly true. Now newspapers that regularly publish multicultural puff pieces lauding diversity must admit to ongoing conflict between Hmong immigrants and Americans over property rights. Not only that, the Hmong are known for taking egregious numbers of fish and deer in violation of posted conservation limits which are there to preserve species for everyone.
The term "culture clash" presumes difference between equals, while the Hmong refugees have refused to assimilate to American laws regarding property and wildlife management, among others including monogamy
In fact, Mr. Vang is himself an apparent polygamist a detail tucked unobtrusively within a longish article. "While the police reports on the December 2001 domestic incident indicate Say Xiong was the suspect's wife, on Monday the Associated Press interviewed a woman named Deu Khang , 37, who identified herself as Chai Soua Vang's 'cultural' wife."
"Cultural wife!" Let's definitely add that to the diversity euphemism list, since polygamy is still a felony.
For more about the unfortunate American victims, see the photo and posting at ImmigrationsHumanCost. [url]http://www.immigrationshumancost.org/[/url]
Hmong Hmassacre? [Peter Brimelow]- 11/22/04
Several sharp-eyed readers suspected that Chai Vang, the ââ¬ÅMinnesota manââ¬Â who killed five other hunters in Wisconsin on Sunday was a Hmong. Reports published in the less racially-correct British media confirm it. The only remaining question is whether he is an immigrant or an ââ¬ÅAmericanââ¬Âââ¬âi.e. born in the U.S.A. Meanwhile, our Brenda Walker faces expulsion from the Sierra Club for suggesting that importing more Hmong might be a bad idea. Vang lived in St. Paul, whose mayor was enthusiastic for Hmong refugee resettlement. Ask him if he still feels that way. Ask the Sierra Club too.
[url]http://www.vdare.com/blog/index.htm[/url]
2004-11-25 06:57 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Blond Knight]Seems that the murdering little fish head eating bag of garbage is a son of the Hmong General Vang Pao. Pao was the leader of the Hmong who were fighting for the CIA when the CIA were up to their eyeballs running opium out of S.E.Asia. Now we are being told that WE owe the Hmong a place at our (welfare) table because these noble savages were on "our" side during the Vietnam war.
Basically, they helped us lose a war we had no reason to be fighting in (while one could argue that Communist domination of Indochina was a potential threat to our Australian blood brothers and the vitally strategic Straits of Malacca, it would have made a lot more sense to hold the line at Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore, and let the Commies have the rest of southeast Asia, if they were strong enough to take it), and they provided that help by fighting people who were their enemies anyway. Perhaps we owe them something, but certainly a great deal less than we've given them, thus any debt we ever owed them has not only been paid, they are now the ones who owe **US.[/B]
I have long been inclined to work towards a policy of humane re-settlement, to the maximum extent possible, with regard to the Blacks, Mexicans, Chinese, Japanese, and even the Jews, on my more generous days. But with regard to these Hmong savages, I must say that the notion of full-blown, Heinrich Himmler-style mass extermination does have its appeal. Just shoot them. Shoot them [B][I]ALL.***
2004-11-25 07:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ponce]Six Palestinians die every day in Palestine and many more civilians in Iraq so what's the big deal about six getting killed here?,,,,, a life is a life.
Its the principle of the thing. Most Americans, sadly (and largely as a result of their completely inadequate, so-called "education" in the government "schools"), are too ignorant and morally bankrupt to comprehend the great moral tragedy occurring daily in Palestine, but if it were happening here, to them, they'd understand it very quickly (to be fair, many/most Palestinians might not be too concerned if North Americans were being treated like Helots either). This is our country, and the very idea that we are going to just permit these vile, degenerate, lying, thieving yellow bastards murder not only our men, but our boys and women too (I believe one of the male victims was only 17, and I'm certain there was a woman in her 20s among the dead), and not in some squalid inner-city Hellhole where White people frankly expect to be murdered, and hence do not go, but in the forests of western Wisconsin? Not just no, but Hell no! Six dead Whites should translate into no less than 60 dead Hmong, as far as I'm concerned. And some of those should be women and boys, just like they did to us. Burn down some of their opium dens with them inside, and cheer on the flames! They think their gangs are tough? One of their gangs would cease existence about 20 seconds after being ambushed by a group of determined White men. And it'd be a damn good thing if it happened tomorrow, frankly. I don't normally believe in collective punishment, but all Hmong are scum. Most Blacks and Jews are too, but a small number are not. There is simply no such thing as a decent Hmong (or if there is, I, and no one I know, has ever heard of one, and I used to live in one of main Hmong areas of settlement, and my best friend still does).
2004-11-25 14:56 | User Profile
The article I read stated that although they share a comman name the murderer is not the son of the late general. The real son is a respected spokesman of the Hmong in Wisconsin. This according to the New York Times, never a source of great accuracy. A little of the history of the American Hmong is revealing. Large numbers of them were sponsered by church groups some years back and settled in Wisconsin where the churches promised aid and support for them in their time of trial. Once settled the church groups pulled out and put the whole mob on the backs of the taxpayers. They have been a problem ever since and always blame their "cultural differences."
2004-11-27 17:29 | User Profile
you people speak as if your race is so much better than the hmong when you have a white man locked up for eating other white men. talk about hmong being ignorant, before you speak you should do your research and not assume. it just makes an ass out of you.
and for kevin okeefe. just because you lived in merced doesn't make you a hmong expert. living in a city where hmong resides doesn't make qualify as a hmong expert and as for your pathetic statement towards hmong women looking ugly thats just a low blow from you, who has nothing better to do then bully other races. and my dear, before you start accusing the hmongs for dragging the US into the vietnam war do your research. they went to the hmong for help not the other way around. the US lost the war because you said it yourself, it wasn't their war, they just butted in. and when things got tought like a typical american they hopped on their helicopters and left.
the hmong community didn't shoot those men, a man who happened to be hmong shot those hunters. he is responsible, his race/ethnicity should not be blamed for his actions.
2004-11-27 19:56 | User Profile
Related thread:
Hmong Killed before! Hunter murdered three years ago in a nearby county. [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15781[/url]
2004-11-27 20:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=christine]you people speak as if your race is so much better than the hmong when you have a white man locked up for eating other white men. talk about hmong being ignorant, before you speak you should do your research and not assume. it just makes an ass out of you. the hmong community didn't shoot those men, a man who happened to be hmong shot those hunters. he is responsible, his race/ethnicity should not be blamed for his actions.[/QUOTE]
Welcome, Christine.
I hope that you'll stick around.
Most of us around here believe that organizing humankind into ethnically pure states is a good idea, since such is conducive to peace.
Most of us here don't have anything against Asians, in fact most of us like Asians. We just think that having people of different races and cultures sharing a territory is a recipe for civil strife.
With a few exceptions, hardly any of us regular ODers believe in the "superiority" of the white race, at least in the sense that whites somehow have the right to rule other races or dominate them unjustly. In fact, we're almost all against the American Empire's meddling in foreign wars.
We just believe that good fences make good neighbors. And I hope you won't dismiss this out of hand - there's a very large literature in support of the nationalist position.
Again, welcome. I look forward to discussing many interesting things with you.
Walter
2004-11-28 00:43 | User Profile
Lest folks think that we are some kind of neo-nazi, white supremacist, knuckle dragging bigots, and in the interest of cultural understanding, let's all learn about Hmong culture.
Hmong History Month:[url]http://www.wausaudailyherald.com/specialsections/hmong/[/url]
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
One thing that may have been overlooked in this whole matter, perhaps Mr. Vang, due to cultural misunderstandings, did not know that "Long Pig" is a protected species in his new homeland.
2004-11-28 03:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]Welcome, Christine.
I hope that you'll stick around.
Most of us around here believe that organizing humankind into ethnically pure states is a good idea, since such is conducive to peace.
Most of us here don't have anything against Asians, in fact most of us like Asians. We just think that having people of different races and cultures sharing a territory is a recipe for civil strife.
With a few exceptions, hardly any of us regular ODers believe in the "superiority" of the white race, at least in the sense that whites somehow have the right to rule other races or dominate them unjustly. In fact, we're almost all against the American Empire's meddling in foreign wars.
We just believe that good fences make good neighbors. And I hope you won't dismiss this out of hand - there's a very large literature in support of the nationalist position.
Again, welcome. I look forward to discussing many interesting things with you.
Walter[/QUOTE] Read this post again it seems like your the only one not talking bad about the Hmongs so I'm sure all of you here like Asians, and kevin okeefe why dont you post a picture so we can see how utterly handsome you are:thumbsup: go ahead do it dont be shy since u think their race is all ugly lets see your picture.
-Jackyl
2004-11-28 04:06 | User Profile
My grandmother use to tell me, ââ¬ÅYou are so lucky to be here in America, the land of beauty and opportunities.ââ¬Â My family and so many others fell in love with America because it meant freedom and liberty. But as a child and growing up, Iââ¬â¢ve learned, this is not realityââ¬Â¦
Even till today, one thing still makes America ugly, and thatââ¬â¢s racism and the misunderstanding between ethnicitiesââ¬Â¦
I ran across this forum and I was shock to see the peopleââ¬â¢s remarks. Well, not shock, but a part deep within me diedââ¬Â¦ I now know why so many people tell me the ââ¬Åwhite peopleââ¬Â are a lot worse in making racist remarks and I shouldnââ¬â¢t give much care towards them, but it hurts.
A lot of you people have made remarks about the Hmong people and the Vietnam War and why we are even here today. Do you seriously think a group of people will just leave behind their homeland for no reasons? Come on! Reality check! My people are still being killed to this day in the jungles of Laos and starving to death! They are still fighting for freedom and defending their people! We moved here because we want to live, to survive, to forget the wounds of this warââ¬Â¦This reminds me of the Americans and the revolutionary warââ¬Â¦ Didnââ¬â¢t you guys once fight for freedom? Now you tell me to forget the past and that Vietnam War is over. It may be over for you, you may be safe and sound here, but there are thousands out there who still are haunted by this war and itââ¬â¢s not only the Hmong peopleââ¬Â¦
[font="]Itââ¬â¢s sad how little people actually know about historyââ¬Â¦ Itââ¬â¢s sad that people assume before getting to know... Donââ¬â¢t jump to conclusionââ¬Â¦ Even I, a child, still knows thatââ¬Â¦
[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3031116.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/3031116.stm[/url]
[url="http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17252"]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17252[/url]
-Something else to say to Blond Knight about his articles about owning something to the hmong people...
If not for the hundreds and thousands of hmong people who died for America, then YOUR people would of died more during this war... But i guess it don't matter... It's not your people.. You don't care... How typical.
It's e
[/font]
2004-11-28 06:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=the_jackyl]Read this post again it seems like your the only one not talking bad about the Hmongs so I'm sure all of you here like Asians, and kevin okeefe why dont you post a picture so we can see how utterly handsome you are:thumbsup: go ahead do it dont be shy since u think their race is all ugly lets see your picture.
-Jackyl[/QUOTE]\
Kevin O' is a valued contributor here, but he speaks for none but himself.
I'd really like to talk with you about the reasonablness of the nationalist position.
Are you up for that?
Walter
2004-11-28 06:53 | User Profile
Welcome, child of tears. It's a pleasure to make your acquaintance.
[QUOTE][child_of_tears]My grandmother use to tell me, ââ¬ÅYou are so lucky to be here in America, the land of beauty and opportunities.ââ¬Â My family and so many others fell in love with America because it meant freedom and liberty. But as a child and growing up, Iââ¬â¢ve learned, this is not realityââ¬Â¦[/QUOTE]
That's a key insight. Indeed, the entire multicultural dream isn't "reality." It is a nice daydream of our elites, but it doesn't do much good on the ground in Wisconsin.
Or Yugoslavia, Sudan, Congo, Sri Lanka, Punjab, the Basque Country, and the list goes on and on. We've seen empires fracture along racial, religious and cultural lines in the last decade alone. Russia, Yugoslavia. Even microcosmic empires like Georgia. All point to the inescapable fact that human beings were meant to live in ethnically homogeneous groups. Multiculturalism is a recipe for civil strife.
The Hmong are ancient enemies of the Vietnamese - perhaps Loas should prove to the world that it isn't racist and bring in large numbers of Vietnames settlers. Do you like that idea, child?
The Vietnam war was all about race and ethnicity. Note that the Vietnamese Communists cloak themselves in Marxist "interationalism" even as they maltreated the mixed-race children of American GIs, and launched vicious pogroms against the Overseas Chinese living in the North along the Chinese border. That last one prompted the Chinese Communists (who also claim fealty to the same Marxism that is the taproot of our own multiculturalism) to invade Vietnam. Vietname then invaded Cambodia.
Of course, Marxist multiculturalism with its nonsense about different ethnicities peacefully sharing a territory was always just cover for the terrible ethnic hatreds boiling beneath the surface. The "Russian" Revolution was actually made by Jews like Lenin (Ulyanov). Trotsky (Bronshtein) and so on and so forth. Note that their actions give lie to their stated intentions - as soon as they got the chance, the Jewish Bolsheviks committed genocide against the Christian Slavs.
The lovely multicultural Marxism of Yugoslavia's Tito (who was a Croation) was also just cover for dealing with the Serbs and others like the Albanians in Kosovo. A glance at the headlines of the past 10 years of so proves where Marxist multiculturalism leads.
You're seem to be a good fellow, child of tears. Could it be that you really want that for America?
We nationalists understand this simple fact of human nature as it plays out in history, and we want desparately to avoid a similar fate for America. I would think that if you're really grateful to America you'd accept the fact that you can't ever join the core American nation (at least without destroying its genetic integrity).
[QUOTE]Even till today, one thing still makes America ugly, and thatââ¬â¢s racism and the misunderstanding between ethnicitiesââ¬Â¦[/QUOTE]
I agree 100%. As we have seen, history proves (as does the science of Sociobiology) that multiculturalism tends strongly toward civil strife, and that since human beings have a natural affinity for those who look and act like them, ethnic homogeneity is conduce (although certainly not a guarantee) of civil harmony.
Thus, the way to remove the ugly stain of racial animosity from the face of our republic is to make America less multicultural - to return America to being an overwhelmingly European, Christian and English-speaking nation.
As Jared Taylor put it, you cannot be among us because you are not one of us. You will always be a racial alien to the core white American nation. While I do not doubt your good intentions toward us, your presence among us is inevitably disruptive.
[QUOTE]I ran across this forum and I was shock to see the peopleââ¬â¢s remarks. Well, not shock, but a part deep within me diedââ¬Â¦ I now know why so many people tell me the ââ¬Åwhite peopleââ¬Â are a lot worse in making racist remarks and I shouldnââ¬â¢t give much care towards them, but it hurts.[/QUOTE]
That was a racist remark, child of tears, that proves my point that multiculturalism is a cloak for ethnic agendas. You want to feel part of the American nation, which you know is white, but since you can't change your race you ask us to deny our race. And you do it under the guise of anti-racism!
Whites are more racist than Hmong, huh? Interesting.
[QUOTE]A lot of you people have made remarks about the Hmong people and the Vietnam War and why we are even here today. Do you seriously think a group of people will just leave behind their homeland for no reasons? Come on! Reality check! My people are still being killed to this day in the jungles of Laos and starving to death! They are still fighting for freedom and defending their people! We moved here because we want to live, to survive, to forget the wounds of this warââ¬Â¦This reminds me of the Americans and the revolutionary warââ¬Â¦ Didnââ¬â¢t you guys once fight for freedom? Now you tell me to forget the past and that Vietnam War is over. It may be over for you, you may be safe and sound here, but there are thousands out there who still are haunted by this war and itââ¬â¢s not only the Hmong peopleââ¬Â¦[/QUOTE]
The Vietnam war was just one in a long line of American Imperial misadventures. When we nationalists finally take over, there will be no more of that.
2004-11-28 19:00 | User Profile
Check the names of these three ambulance-chasers, must be from the firm: Dewey, Cheetum & Howe.
startribune.com
Last update: November 27, 2004 at 11:17 PM 3 Milwaukee lawyers will work for Vang Published November 28, 2004
Chai Soua Vang, the 36-year-old St. Paul man suspected of killing six Wisconsin hunters last Sunday, has retained three prominent Milwaukee attorneys to represent him.
Originally, Vang was represented by three public defenders.
Attorneys James Ment-kowski, Steven Kohn and Jonathan Smith will hold a news conference at 3 p.m. today in Milwaukee to talk about the case. "We're not saying anything until the press conference," Mentkowski said Saturday.
Staff reports é Copyright 2004 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.
2004-11-28 19:33 | User Profile
More blessings from immigration & diversity.
[url]http://miva.sctimes.com/miva/cgi-bin/miva?CMN/Local/read_archive.mv+1+5+12[/url]
Police investigate gang rape, make 3 drug arrests By Kelly Scott
Charges likely will come Monday for three people who were arrested in connection with drugs police say they found while investigating the alleged gang rape of a 13-year-old girl.
St. Cloud police arrested two men and a 15-year-old boy Thursday while investigating the girl's allegation. Arrested were Shamarke Warsame Barre, 22, and Mohamed Osman Mohamed, 21.
The teen-ager's name wasn't released.
The three were in Stearns County Jail. They're expected to be charged with second-degree possession of a controlled substance, Sgt. Jim Mortenson said.
Police also arrested Abdirisak Dahir Jama, 22, on a Hennepin County warrant related to a driving offense, Mortenson said.
The arrests came after officers met Wednesday with the 13-year-old girl.
Officers discovered the girl was a runaway who had an active arrest warrant from Mille Lacs County.
While officers arrested her, she told them she had been gang raped two to three weeks earlier, Mortenson said.
Officers believe the gang rape occurred at 804 Seventh Ave. S.
On Thursday, officers got a warrant to search the address, Mortenson said. When they arrived, they found six people inside.
Officers detained three of the six people in a bedroom while they searched.
In the bedroom, officers found more than 13 grams of what is believed to be cocaine, Mortenson said.
The three people in the room told officers they didn't know anything about the drugs, but officers found the drugs within close proximity of each person, he said.
Officers arrested the three people in connection with the drugs and a fourth man on the arrest warrant. They let the other two people go, Mortenson said.
Mortenson said the investigation into the gang-rape allegation is under way.
St. Cloud Times Online Homepage
2004-11-28 20:07 | User Profile
reading soem of these posts, i find it very racist and offending. has anyone of you ever spoken to an asian, let alone a hmong person? do you even know how a hmong person looks like? i don't understand where all these hate in here stems from.
*i'm sure ya'll have heard of the phrase, "can't we all just get along?" *
*its a shame that for the majority of you who hate foreigners do not realize that WE, as a nation, are all foreigners. Its a shame to even call ourselves human if we hate our own kind so much. *
2004-11-28 21:12 | User Profile
Why some of y'all hating on us minorities? Damn y'all rednecks R some cocky @ss mofos. Those rednecks could've saved them a lot of trouble by not firing @ Chai Vang after he walked away.....Rednecks=racist @ss mofos..
One time me and my 20 guys were fishing somewhere in Wisc @ 2 am and these 2 rednecks around 25-30 popped up and started talking shiet calling us names... lucky them 20 of us didn't stab and toss them into the river because we were having a lot of fun and most of us were in a good mood..next time, someone is gonna get it...
Those rednecks deserved to get shot regardless... Chai is 100% guilty...glad he did he job
-Chai Vang = One bad@ss mofo -One Nice SKS Semiautomatic Rifle = $$$ -Some nice bullets = $$$ -Deer hunting license = $$$ -[img]http://www.pebhmong.com/forum/images/smiles/070.gif[/img] pwned 6 rednecks = "priceless!"
2004-11-28 23:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]Kevin O' is a valued contributor here, but he speaks for none but himself.[/QUOTE]
And even I will freely admit my remarks were not only excessive, but in point of fact, were never intended to be taken more than half-seriously. The only reason I meant them half-seriously is due to the simple fact that mass murder, and the other crimes associated with displacement by a foreign competitor group (Hmongs, in this case), does tend to evoke an emotional reaction. I know I'm expected to apologize for caring about my people and feeling emotional about their being murdered, but if six Hmongs had been murdered by a some White yokel out in the woods, I have no doubt that certain people would be MUCH more understanding and forgiving of intemperate remarks about Whites, as a group, being made by Hmong community activists, yet we Whites are not only always required to be on our best behavior, but are never given any credit for all the many instances when we are. Meanwhile, all other groups are allowed to behave themselves at a level far below what any group would consider acceptable on the part of Whites.
But in any event, I would never seriously advocate the liquidation of an entire people (other than within a context where doing so was the only route to ensuring the survival for my people, which is unlikely ever to be the case with the Hmong). But when a group of people comes to one's country, behaves in a lawless and indolent way, and is coddled and protected at every turn by our major societal institutions, that does tend to generate something akin to murderous resentment. That is a simple fact. The Hmong community should acquaint themselves with that fact and adjust their behavior accordingly.
2004-11-28 23:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Tough_love]its a shame that for the majority of you who hate foreigners do not realize that WE, as a nation, are all foreigners. Its a shame to even call ourselves human if we hate our own kind so much.[/QUOTE]
The above constitutes a ludicrous contradiction in terms that proves nothing other than that the poster is confused about the meaning of the terms "foreigner" and "nation."
2004-11-28 23:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Chai_Vang]Why some of y'all hating on us minorities? Damn y'all rednecks R some cocky @ss mofos. Those rednecks could've saved them a lot of trouble by not firing @ Chai Vang after he walked away.....Rednecks=racist @ss mofos..
One time me and my 20 guys were fishing somewhere in Wisc @ 2 am and these 2 rednecks around 25-30 popped up and started talking shiet calling us names... lucky them 20 of us didn't stab and toss them into the river because we were having a lot of fun and most of us were in a good mood..next time, someone is gonna get it...
Those rednecks deserved to get shot regardless... Chai is 100% guilty...glad he did he job
-Chai Vang = One bad@ss mofo -One Nice SKS Semiautomatic Rifle = $$$ -Some nice bullets = $$$ -Deer hunting license = $$$ -[img]http://www.pebhmong.com/forum/images/smiles/070.gif[/img] pwned 6 rednecks = "priceless!"[/QUOTE]
And Hmongs wonder why so many people don't like them....
2004-11-29 07:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=child_of_tears]We moved here because we want to live, to survive, to forget the wounds of this warââ¬Â¦ Probably there are some farmers in the area of the shooting who also moved there to get away from their Vietnam war memories.
This reminds me of the Americans and the revolutionary warââ¬Â¦ Didnââ¬â¢t you guys once fight for freedom? Now you tell me to forget the past and that Vietnam War is over. It may be over for you, you may be safe and sound here, but there are thousands out there who still are haunted by this war and itââ¬â¢s not only the Hmong peopleââ¬Â¦[/QUOTE]Personally, I do sympathize with you. But shooting six people on their own land is no way to win friends and influence people.
If the Hmong people are smart, they would let it go and let this guy fry. If you start making him your hero, its no wonder people here and elsewhere won't like you.
2004-11-29 11:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Rednecks=racist @ss mofos..[/QUOTE]
That's one of the most racist statements I've read in a long time.
Good for you!
Racism is natural, racism is good, and you are obviously well on your way.
Welcome!
As your fellow racist, I extend to you a warm invitation to discuss this and other matters on Texas Dissident's fine forum.
I would respectfully point out, however, that we take our issues seriously here, and we do try to keep the conversation on a higher plane than common on similar forums. For that reason we ask posters to avoid simple name calling, as you do above. A large part of our message is the moral rightness of racism, and name calling just distracts readers from the substance of the issue.
I look forward to discussing these important issue things with you.
Regards,
Walter
2004-11-29 12:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Chai_Vang]Why some of y'all hating on us minorities? Damn y'all rednecks R some cocky @ss mofos. Those rednecks could've saved them a lot of trouble by not firing @ Chai Vang after he walked away.....Rednecks=racist @ss mofos..
One time me and my 20 guys were fishing somewhere in Wisc @ 2 am and these 2 rednecks around 25-30 popped up and started talking shiet calling us names... lucky them 20 of us didn't stab and toss them into the river because we were having a lot of fun and most of us were in a good mood..next time, someone is gonna get it...
Those rednecks deserved to get shot regardless... Chai is 100% guilty...glad he did he job
-Chai Vang = One bad@ss mofo -One Nice SKS Semiautomatic Rifle = $$$ -Some nice bullets = $$$ -Deer hunting license = $$$ -[img]http://www.pebhmong.com/forum/images/smiles/070.gif[/img] pwned 6 rednecks = "priceless!"[/QUOTE]
Christ, as if this Asian Hmonkey's culture isn't bad enough as it is, this one has to Africanize it. (Memo to White Wisconsin deer hunters: next time you need to get one of these Hmonkeys down out of a tree, be culturally sensitive; use a [URL=http://www.enter.net/~craftsman/nsba/history.htm]blowgun.)[/URL]
2004-11-29 14:58 | User Profile
You tell Child of Tears the following,,,,
"KILLING SIX PEOPLE IN THEIR OWN LAND IS NO WAY TO MAKE FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE"
What the hell do you think the Zionists are doing in Palestine and the US in Iraq???????, I don't think that you have seen all the photos of BABIES and kids being killed in THEIR OWN LAND.
For every Iraqi that gets killed that means 25 new enemies that we gain in Iraq and God knows how many more on the outside.
There is NO WAY that the Palestinians will now make friends with the Zionists or the Iraqis with the US, the wounds will be everlasting.
It is no coincindence that the Jews are behind both conflicts.
2004-11-30 02:42 | User Profile
Check out the info on the three shysters that are representing Mr. Vang. They sound more deserving of a hemp rope necktie than the accused.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Posted on Mon, Nov. 29, 2004
Daughter defends man accused in killings SHOOTINGS: Vang's eldest daughter speaks in Milwaukee with her father's three new lawyers. BY CARRIE ANTLFINGER ASSOCIATED PRESS
MILWAUKEE - The eldest daughter of a Minnesota man accused of killing six hunters in Northwestern Wisconsin said Sunday she was shocked to hear about her father's alleged crimes and called him a great person.
"He loves his family very much," Kia Vang said at a Sunday news conference with her father's three new lawyers. "I'm really shocked and I don't know what to say but the truth will eventually come out either one way or another."
Her father, Chai Vang, 36, is accused of shooting eight deer hunters in Sawyer County Nov. 21 -- killing six and injuring two -- after a dispute involving a tree stand on private land.
Chai Vang, a Hmong immigrant from St. Paul, told authorities the hunters surrounded him and used racial slurs before one fired a shot at him. One of the survivors said Vang fired the first shot.
Vang remained in the Sawyer County Jail Sunday in lieu of $2.5 million bail. He was expected to be charged today; an initial appearance was scheduled for Tuesday.
Vang has retained three new lawyers, two of whom have previously represented high-profile clients.
Jonathan Smith helped represent former Green Bay Packers tight end Mark Chmura, who was acquitted of sexually assaulting a 17-year-old girl in 2001. His partner, Steven Kohn, represented Christopher Scarver, who killed serial killer Jeffery Dahmer 10 years ago at Columbia Correctional Institution.
Vang's third attorney, James Mentkowski, has represented many Hmong clients and has been involved with a church-based program in Milwaukee that helps Hmong immigrant families adapt to American culture.
Vang had a public defender until the lawyers were hired Wednesday, Kohn said.
Kohn and Mentkowski visited Vang for two hours on Thanksgiving Day, Kohn said. He would not elaborate on what Vang said or his demeanor.
He also would not say how the lawyers were retained, but he said they did not approach Vang's family themselves. He said he hopes Vang can get a fair trial in Sawyer County but would consider trying to get a change of venue.
He said attorneys were still deciding on the approach for their defense, but were considering a factual defense and a mental health defense.
"While we certainly are making no judgment or jumping to any conclusions ... this certainly doesn't seem to be a whodunit. It seems to be a why done it," he said.
Mentkowski said Hmong community leaders asked him to express their condolences to the families involved and the entire Wisconsin hunting community.
"The Hmong community recognizes the special place that the deer hunt holds in our culture," he said. "They recognize these regrettable incidents have cast a pallor to some degree over the entire hunt."
"There are many questions within the Hmong community as to how an individual as respected and loved as Mr. Vang ... found himself in a situation that caused him to respond in the way he did," Mentkowski said.
Kia Vang said she has not spoken to her father since the incident. She also offered her condolences to the families of the hunters.
"All of our families are facing hardships at this time and we all have questions that, you know, need answers," she said.
The lawyers would not let her answer any questions, including her age. She sat quietly with her head down during most of the news conference.
Funerals for four of the six victims have already been held. The funerals for Dennis Drew and Jessica Willers were planned for today.
é 2004 Duluth News Tribune and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved. [url]http://www.duluthsuperior.com[/url]
2004-11-30 02:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=the_jackyl]and kevin okeefe why dont you post a picture so we can see how utterly handsome you are:thumbsup: go ahead do it dont be shy since u think their race is all ugly lets see your picture.[/QUOTE]
Leaving aside the fact this is an irrelevant and rather lame request, the only scanned photo I have of myself is from 1991, when I was but 20 years of age. I'd rather not have my present persona publicly associated with that somewhat immature looking young man, if you don't mind.
2004-11-30 03:03 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ponce]You tell Child of Tears the following,,,,
"KILLING SIX PEOPLE IN THEIR OWN LAND IS NO WAY TO MAKE FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE"
What the hell do you think the Zionists are doing in Palestine and the US in Iraq???????, I don't think that you have seen all the photos of BABIES and kids being killed in THEIR OWN LAND.
I won't speak for the others in this matter (although I suspect I probably could, for all practical purposes), but I for one certainly have seen such photos, and I find them utterly nauseasting, repulsive and infuriating, just as I find the actions of this mass murdering Hmong degenerate up in Wisconsin to be so as well. There is more than enough space in my heart to be quite angry about both matters, as well as a great many others.
2004-11-30 03:12 | User Profile
Now children, repeat after me, "Multiculturalism is a blessing to our country."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [url]http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5109763.html[/url] startribune.com
Last update: November 29, 2004 at 4:45 PM Vang charged; funerals for last of hunters held Larry Oakes Star Tribune Staff Writer Published November 30, 2004 HAYWARD, Wis. -- The Wisconsin Attorney General's office charged Chai Soua Vang with six counts of first-degree intentional homicide today and two counts of attempted first-degree intentional homicide.
The charges against Vang, 36, of St. Paul, were filed in advance of Vang's first court appearance, scheduled for Tuesday morning in Sawyer County Circuit Court in Hayward.
Vang is being held in lieu of $2.5 million bail.
The charges came as the last two victims were to be buried.
In the criminal complaint, Sawyer County Det. Gary Gillis said that survivor Lauren Hesebeck admitted that victim Robert Crotteau, part owner of the property, yelled at Vang and used profanity. But, Gillis added, Hesebeck and survivor Terry Willers both said that at no time did any of the hunters touch Vang, make threatening gestures or threaten to shoot him
Vang has told investigators that members of the hunting party surrounded him and told him to leave the property using profanity and racial slurs before firing a shot at him.
Vang initially denied shooting the hunters. He told investigators that his rifle was taken by one of the hunters, who shot the others and then forced Vang to walk to each of the bodies. Vang later changed his story, saying that he had shot the hunters because he was provoked, the complaint said.
Vang, in the second version of his story, said he began shooting only after one of the hunters shot at him. He said he shot the others because he feared they were running to get guns, the complaint said. He said they had gun cases on their ATVs.
But police, who examined the ATV's, said they contained no guns, gun cases, or gun racks.
Vang also told investigators that he shot two of the victims, Allan Laski and Jessica Willers, after they drove up on an ATV. Laski had a gun in his hand, Vang said. But the complaint said that police found no guns near the bodies of Laski or Willers and that their ATV had no weapons on it.
According to autopsy findings contained in the complaint, Mark Roidt, 28, died of a gunshot wound to the head. Dennis Drew, 55, died of a gunshot wound to the abdomen that entered through his left side. Robert Crotteau, 42, died of a single wound to the lower back. His son Joey Crotteau, 20, died after he was shot four times in the back. Laski, 43, and Willers, 27, died after they were both shot three times in the back.
Willers' father, Terry Willers, and Lauren Hesebeck were injured in the shootings but have since been released from the hospital.
Meanwhile, funerals for the last of the six hunters killed were being held today.
About 300 people filled St. Joseph Catholic Church in a morning service to honor Jessica Willers, one of the six people killed in the Nov. 21 shooting. A funeral for Dennis Drew was scheduled for Monday afternoon in nearby Dobie.
A week's passage has done little to heal the community's wounds from the shootings, the Rev. Jim Powers said in delivering the homily at Willers' service.
Most of us are just as confused and lost and stunned as we were when we first heard about it,'' Powers said.We need to work through this and we need to help others work through it.''
Mourners streamed into the red-brick church an hour before the service, many wearing blaze-orange ribbons in memory of the dead hunters.
On Sunday, Vang's eldest daughter called her father a great person who loves his family. Kia Vang, who declined to give her age, said she has not spoken with her father since the shootings.
``I'm really shocked and I don't know what to say but the truth will eventually come out either one way or another,'' Kia Vang said at news conference with her father's three attorneys.
Two of the attorneys have previously represented high-profile clients.
Jonathan Smith helped represent former Green Bay Packers tight end Mark Chmura, who was acquitted of sexually assaulting a 17-year-old girl in 2001. Smith's partner, Steven Kohn, represented Christopher Scarver, who killed serial killer Jeffery Dahmer 10 years ago at Columbia Correctional Institution.
Vang's third attorney, James Mentkowski, has represented Hmong clients and has been involved with a Milwaukee church-based program that helps Hmong immigrant families adapt to American culture.
Mentkowski said Hmong community leaders asked him to express their condolences to the families involved and the entire Wisconsin hunting community.
The Hmong community recognizes the special place that the deer hunt holds in our culture,'' he said.They recognize these regrettable incidents have cast a pallor to some degree over the entire hunt.''
Kohn and Mentkowski visited Vang for two hours on Thanksgiving Day, Kohn said.
The Hmong community loved and respected Vang as much as the Rice Lake community loved the other hunters involved, Mentkowski said.
``There are many questions within the Hmong community as to how an individual as respected and loved as Mr. Vang ... found himself in a situation that caused him to respond in the way he did,'' Mentkowski said.
In St. Paul, police spokesman Paul Schnell said two investigators from the Wisconsin Department of Justice came there last week to question some Hmong men who were hunting with Vang the day of the shooting.
Schnell had few other details except to say no members of the city's Hmong community were taken into custody. A spokesman for Wisconsin's Justice Department did not return a phone call for comment Monday.
The Associated Press contributed to this report. é Copyright 2004 Star Tribune. All rights reserved.
2004-11-30 04:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Blond Knight]Vang's third attorney, James Mentkowski, has represented Hmong clients and has been involved with a Milwaukee church-based program that helps Hmong immigrant families adapt to American culture.
"Adapt to American culture?" That crosses the threshold from sincere-but-mistaken opinion to outright lie, I'd say. The group clearly works not to help Hmong parasites adapt to American culture, but rather to adapt American culture to the presence of these biological competitors. Which is to say, this group works to denigrate, coarsen degrade and destroy American culture, in order to transform it into a Third World toilet. To suggest otherwise is a patent lie, and its time these so-called "journalists" got called on their BS. If the dang thing looks, walks and quacks like a duck, one has probably got some waterfowl to contend with, all sugar-coated lies to the contrary notwithstanding.
2004-11-30 04:41 | User Profile
Now let's all throw a little extra into the plate tonite, we have some extra mouths to feed. (Until we get them signed up on welfare.)
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
[url]http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?S=2576389&nav=51s7TDYZ[/url]
Donations Collected for Newest Hmong Refugees
An Oshkosh organization says it needs the public's health in welcoming 30 families home for the holidays.
Catholic Charities is collecting furniture and household items for more than 30 Hmong refugee families coming here from Thailand. The organization wants to make sure the families are all settled in their homes by Christmas.
That's where it needs help. "Try to remember when one was a newlywed and what did you need in a brand new apartment? That's what we need, because the refugees arrive with only a bag, some personal belongings, so they need everything like that," Barbara Biebel of Catholic Charities said.
The Catholic Charities collection warehouse is on Sixth Street in Oshkosh. It's open for donations every Tuesday night from 5:30 to 7:30.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Papists: lest you think I am being too nasty by pointing out the treason committed by the Catholic Charities, check this thread: [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15839[/url]
2004-11-30 04:52 | User Profile
Check out the good stuff near the end of the article..
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[url]http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2004/11/25_helmsm_moreshooting/[/url]
by Marisa Helms, Minnesota Public Radio November 25, 2004
Larger view Cher Lor owns a small shop in the International Marketplace in St. Paul. He says he would be fearful of hunters wanting to "get even" for the deaths. (MPR Photo/Marisa Helms) The shooting deaths of six hunters in northwestern Wisconsin this week has prompted a complex set of reactions - perhaps nowhere more than in the Twin Cities Hmong community. The alleged shooter - Chai Vang - is a Hmong immigrant who lives in St. Paul. When the first reports of the incident came out, local Hmong leaders cautioned against making Vang's ethnicity an issue. But officials have since released Vang's statement in which he claims he fired on the other hunters after they taunted him with racial slurs and shot at him first. That version of events has diminished hopes of dismissing racial aspects of the case and its impact.
St. Paul, Minn. ââ¬â The crime in and of itself is horrific enough to prompt questions about why anyone would shoot eight people, killing six of them.
Ilean Her, executive director of the Council on Asian-Pacific Minnesotans, says the community wants Vang to be seen as a man who committed a violent act who happens to be a Hmong immigrant. She says the community dislikes the spotlight on Vang's ethnicity by the wider Minnesota community.
"Like, how could this have happened? Maybe some of this cultural background may be influencing how he behaved. And I think that's the mainstream community trying to understand this," Her said. "At the at the same time Hmong community trying to understand it with their own personal experience, background. And so the the Hmong community does not want to bring his culture into it at all."
But looking to Vang's ethnicity for answers is unavoidable, especially since the suspect admitted in a police statement that he shot the hunters after they taunted him with racial slurs.
His story conflicts with a surviving hunter's statement which makes no mention of racial taunting. Still, Her says Vang's account confirms Hmong community suspicions that Vang was provoked.
She says Hmong hunters widely report harassment from non-Hmong hunters. She knows hunters who have been confronted by white hunters at gunpoint, with baseball bats, or white hunters who have run over Hmong camps with their cars.
Her says though the community does not condone the shootings in any way, the Hmong community can identify to a certain extent to Vang's version of events.
"You know, when have you had enough? Most of the time when a camp has been run over by other hunters, they just pick up and they may decide to come home, or they pick up and make camp somewhere else," Her said. "So the question is when is enough enough?"
A Hmong group in Eau Claire, Wisc., is advising Hmong to not hunt the rest of the season, for fear of revenge attacks against Hmong hunters.
But Her doesn't agree with that recommendation. She calls the shooting "a one-time event," an aberration. And she encourages Hmong hunters to enjoy the season, which ends this weekend.
Some Hmong residents interviewed in a St. Paul mini-mall aren't so sure hunting is safe right now.
Cher Lor sells blankets and other knick knacks from a small vendors cubby hole. He says he would be fearful for any Hmong hunter. He says he worries some non-Hmong might want to "get even" for the deaths.
"I would say I think it's going to be very dangerous for us to go out and hunt. Even fishing," Lor said. "You know it's going to be a negative feeling when other people see this is a Hmong person, it's going to be a negative impact on all of us."
Lor says from what he's heard of Vang's account, he believes Vang was scared and defended himself.
But Sally Yang, 13, who works in the mall with her father, has another perspective on Vang.
Yang and her family lived in an apartment next to Vang a few years ago when he lived in Minneapolis with his wife and children. During that time, in 2001, Vang was arrested and later released for waving a loaded gun at his wife and threatening to kill her.
Yang says from what she knows of Vang, he's hot-tempered and stubborn. She says from what she saw, Vang's family members were afraid of him.
"He would threaten them," she said. "They would just get scared. They never felt safe. They don't feel safe around him."
Hmong leader Ilean Her is cautioning everyone to not convict Vang before he's had his day in court. She says she's been puzzled by e-mails that accuse community leaders of defending Vang.
"The response is that we're not defending him," she said. "We just want to know the truth. We just want to know from point A to Z. We sort of know what happened at point Z, the killings. And that's terrible. But we want to know and understand from the beginning to the end and then we want to be able to allow the justice system does its job."
Vang has not yet been charged. He's being held in Sawyer County, Wisc.
2004-11-30 20:44 | User Profile
This sad story is why I am so much against foreign meddling, whether it be the "liberal" kind or the Neocon kind. At the end when we leave these godforsaken third world countries we always wind up with a horde of these unassimilatable people in our mists with all the ensuing problems they bring with them.
Time to get the boxcars send them back.
2004-11-30 21:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius] we always wind up with a horde of these unassimilatable people in our mists with all the ensuing problems they bring with them.[/QUOTE] Unassimilatable? Would it be any better if they assimilated?
2004-11-30 22:57 | User Profile
Travis,
That is the point. They can't.
2004-11-30 23:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]Travis,
That is the point. They can't.[/QUOTE]The third world hordes that do assimilate are more of a problem precisely for that reason. When third worlders assimilate we assimilate with them as well which is more destructive than having misfits like the Hmong.
Every time I hear the complaint that some third world immigrant does not assimilate I can't help but think of the consequences if they do. Assimilation is not the objective, deportation is.
2004-12-01 15:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Sertorius]This sad story is why I am so much against foreign meddling, whether it be the "liberal" kind or the Neocon kind. At the end when we leave these godforsaken third world countries we always wind up with a horde of these unassimilatable people in our mists with all the ensuing problems they bring with them.[/QUOTE]
Tragically, it seems clear the U.S. poulation of Arabs, Khurds, Chaldeans and Pashtuns is about to experience a major upswing....
2004-12-01 15:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=travis]Assimilation is not the objective, deportation is.[/QUOTE]
[B]BRAVO!!![/B]
2004-12-01 17:15 | User Profile
SO WHATTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!! A foreigner killed 6 American whites and the American whites killed (what?) 8?, 10? 16? millions American Indians?,,,,,That was a real holocaust and with evidence.
Remember the USS Liberty? how many Americans were killed by the Zionists from Israel?, where is your anger? where is your justice?.
I have found two Jews on this board that with their postings are traying to take our attention away from the Jewish solution by talking about the Catholic Church and about the so called "white race", don't you know that by killing the Christianity they are killing the white race? and what is worse the US of A.
I don't believe in the church but I do know a little bit about American history.
I might be crazy but not dumb.
2004-12-02 04:10 | User Profile
Looks like the savage beast's shyster lawyer, Steven Kohn, and fellow vampires are greasing the skids for an insanity defense. To bad we can't build a gallows with four ropes and hang the whole bunch.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[url]http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/10310300.htm[/url]
Hmong hunter said to be shaman PUBLIC SAFETY: Chai Soua Vang appears in court to hear murder charges in slayings of six hunters. BY STEPHEN KINZER NEW YORK TIMES
ST. PAUL - The man charged with murdering six hunters and wounding two others in Northwestern Wisconsin last week is a Hmong shaman who has called on the spirit world in trances that last up to three hours, his family and friends say.
The accused, Chai Soua Vang of St. Paul, seeks "the other world" when he tries to cure sick people or invoke divine protection for those who request it, said Ber Xiong, his friend and former hunting companion.
"He is a special person," Xiong said. "Chai speaks to the other side. He asks the spirits there to release people who are suffering on Earth."
Xiong said that Vang, a 36-year-old truck driver, was one of about 100 shamans among St. Paul's immigrant community of about 25,000 Hmong from Laos. He said he had assisted Vang in several shamanistic ceremonies, most recently two years ago, when an extended family asked him to ensure its health and prosperity.
"He danced on a small table for about two hours," said Xiong, an employee of an audio-technology business in Bloomington, Minn. "He was calling out the whole time, not to the people in the room, but to the other world. My job was to sit near the table and make sure he did not fall off."
Xiong declined to identify anyone else who attended that ceremony or others where Vang participated. Like Vang, he is a Hmong immigrant, and many Hmong who know Vang have been reluctant to speak publicly.
But in a brief interview, Vang's sister, Mai, confirmed that he was thought to have mystical powers.
"He is a shaman," Vang said. "But I don't know how long he has been one."
Cher Xee Vang, a prominent leader among the Hmong in Minnesota, said the suspect, to whom he is not closely related, had often participated in curing ceremonies.
"Chai Vang is a shaman," Cher Xee Vang said. "When we needed him to cure the ill with traditional ways of healing, he would."
The events that led to the charges against Vang occurred Nov. 21 when, the authorities say, he was caught trespassing on private land in Wisconsin's north woods. The eight other hunters were shot in an ensuing confrontation with him, police say.
On Monday, prosecutors formally charged Vang with six counts of murder and two counts of attempted murder. On Tuesday, handcuffed and wearing a prison-issued orange jumpsuit, he was taken to the basement of the county jail in Hayward to hear the charges. Judge Norman Yackel of Sawyer County Circuit Court asked Vang if he understood them.
"Yes," Vang responded.
According to the criminal complaint, two survivors of the shootings, Terry Willers and Lauren Hesebeck, said Vang fired the first shot after a dispute over his use of a tree stand on land owned by Willers and another hunter who was shot.
Vang, a deer hunter since 1992, told authorities the hunters confronted him and used racial slurs and profanity before Willers fired the first shot, according to the complaint.
During Tuesday's hearing, the judge asked Vang eight questions, including whether he read and understood English. Vang, who came to the United States from Laos more than 20 years ago, said he did.
When Yackel asked whether Vang was under the care of a psychiatrist or psychologist during the past six months, Vang paused and his attorney Steven Kohn answered.
"I believe that Mr. Vang is certainly mentally competent... for these proceedings," the attorney said.
Later, Kohn declined to elaborate but cautioned reporters not to read too much into the comment.
Yackel, who cited security concerns in holding the hearing at the jail rather than at the courthouse across the street, set the next court date for Dec. 29.
Vang's attorneys said they're thinking about waiving that hearing, which would let Vang immediately enter a plea to the charges.
Bond remained at $2.5 million. Each of the six counts of first-degree intentional homicide carries a mandatory life prison sentence.
It is unclear whether Vang's role as a shaman is in any way connected to the shootings. But Vincent Her, a graduate student at the University of Wisconsin who studies traditional Hmong culture, said he did not believe that shamans could go into a trance so deep that they would lose touch with the physical world, even in a situation of extreme stress.
"That would make him or her unable to mediate between the two worlds, which is the core of the shaman's role," Her said. The Associated Press contributed to this report.
é 2004 Duluth News Tribune and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved. [url]http://www.duluthsuperior.com[/url]
2004-12-02 12:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ponce]SO WHATTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!! A foreigner killed 6 American whites and the American whites killed (what?) 8?, 10? 16? millions American Indians?,,,,,That was a real holocaust and with evidence.
Perhaps it shouldn't have been, but in those days, moving into an inhabited area and killing all of said inhabitants, in order to annex said terrirtory to your empire/kingdom/republic, was considered fair game, and there's little reason to believe the Apaches wouldn't have tortured to death every White man from Lisbon to Moscow, had there but been a way to manage it. That was how the game was played back then, and they lost. I'm Irish (obviously), and yet I don't hate the British, for if Ireland had many more people than Britain, and was much wealthier, technologically/industrially advanced, and militarily superior, and had reason to fear France or Spain might use Britain as a staging ground for an invasion of Mother Ireland, and so seize her globe-straddling Royal Imperium, then there would be a British Repblican Army, instead of an Irish one. But today, we play under new rules (or are supposed to). Since we Whites are not even permitted to express personal dislike for the other races, it only behooves said other races to refrain from committing acts of mass murder against those who first built, and then paid for, each and every thing these "Hmong" degenerates can be said to "own."
[QUOTE=Ponce]Remember the USS Liberty? how many Americans were killed by the Zionists from Israel?, where is your anger? where is your justice?.
Arer you kidding? I'm *[I]FURIOUS[/B] about Israel's infamous war crime against the U.S. Navy (despite its having happened three years before my birth). I was banned from Free Republic within 12 hours of becoming a member, due to my vigorous participation (over 30 messages posted within a single afternoon, with many damning facts taken from the interview of the retired commander of the Liberty, from U.S. Rep. Paul Findley's book, [u]They Dare to Speak Out[/u] strewn throughout those posts. I distributed 75 [url=http://www.natvan.com]National Alliance[/url] flyers about the murderous Israeli attack on the U.S.S. Liberty in the old neighborhood where I grew up (along with 75 more [url=http://www.natvan.com]National Alliance[/url] flyers promoting Victor Ostrovsky's expose` of the Mossad (I don't recall the name of the book, although it apprppriately contains the word "deception").
In any event, the fact that I'm angry about Zionism, the Liberty attack, Palestinian genocide, etc., does not mean I can't also be upset about these six murders committed by an indolent, taxpayer-dependent, oafish Hmong who has very likely killed one (or more) of our peope before (some Wisconsin law enforcement personnel certainly seem to think so). Its not enough just to defeat the Zionists, as after all, one of the reasons it is so vital we do so is in order to facilitate the deportation of all such alien parasites as the Hmong, Negroids, etc.
2004-12-02 23:42 | User Profile
An US GI shoot a wounded weaponless Iraqi to death. A Hmong hunter shot 6 hunters to death.
They both killed people in other people's land. Hmong hunter might not aware he was in a private land while we all know US invaded Iraq.
It seems Hmong hunter had more reason to defend himself. "The other hunters were hostile to me. They posed imminent danger to me. Even he is weaponless, he has intention. Why Bush could do this and I couldn't?"
2004-12-03 01:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=kathaksung]They both killed people in other people's land. Hmong hunter might not aware he was in a private land while we all know US invaded Iraq.
It seems Hmong hunter had more reason to defend himself. "The other hunters were hostile to me. They posed imminent danger to me. Even he is weaponless, he has intention. Why Bush could do this and I couldn't?" [/QUOTE]Well I doubt whether Bush figured into it, and I'm pretty sure he knew he was on private land. You don't go hunting someplace without knowing about the land you're on, and unless you're near a national forest, everything is going to be private land.
I oddly can understand somewhat the feelings the hunter might have had a little. Being chased off a piece of land is not a pleasant experience.
And of course getting permission to hunt on land is not easy, or cheap. When you have a group of poor people who have the habit of hunting the class is inevitable.
This actually makes me wonder why this doesn't happen more often. You have the same potential I'd suspect it places like Alabama with poor blacks, or Texas with Mexicans.
Just by word of mouth, from what I understand, locals though in these parts of the country have developed ways of dealing with the situation. For instance I doubt in Texas if 6 people had gone out to "talk" with a trespasser, they would only have had one gun between them, (or been caught letting the other guy get the first shot).
That's what I hear anyway.
2004-12-03 01:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Blond Knight]Looks like the savage beast's shyster lawyer, Steven Kohn, and fellow vampires are greasing the skids for an insanity defense. To bad we can't build a gallows with four ropes and hang the whole bunch.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ "I believe that Mr. Vang is certainly mentally competent... [B]for these proceedings,[/B]" the attorney said. Sure sounds like it doesn't it. Although maybe it might be more appropriate just to turn him loose back on the land, and let the dead guy's friends take care of the situation.
"He is a special person," Xiong said. "Chai speaks to the other side. He asks the spirits there to release people who are suffering on Earth."
Great. I'd say give him a one-way ticket to the spirit world. Too bad he's in a pussy state without the death penalty.
2004-12-04 02:47 | User Profile
If the Hmong only have mates of the same race is because they want to keep their race and traditions pure,,,,,, that's something that you so called "pure" white race keep bragging about and yet you mix with other races.
I take off my hat to the Hmong for not wanting their race to be made impure by mixing with the super white race.
2004-12-04 05:59 | User Profile
"I take off my hat to the Hmong for not wanting their race to be made impure by mixing with the super white race."
Yes, too bad the white race doesn't have more losers like you. We would be in the toilet faster. We're still in our country, why aren't you?
2004-12-04 08:54 | User Profile
[QUOTE=LA Refugee]"I take off my hat to the Hmong for not wanting their race to be made impure by mixing with the super white race."
Yes, too bad the white race doesn't have more losers like you. We would be in the toilet faster. We're still in our country, why aren't you?[/QUOTE]
Don't be jealous of them for being pure of race, something that I don't think you can claim yourself,,,,,, as a matter of fact neither can I since I am half gringo (Irish). And as far as being in "your" country I do believe that three purples and two silvers do give me the right to live here, I paid my dues.
If you want to mouth off the killer of the six "American Whites" then I don't blame you but when you blame the whole race then I will object to that, that would be like blaming the whole German population for the few criminal Jews that were killed.
"Don't piss against the wind or you will pissed on yourself",,, Ponce
2004-12-04 21:11 | User Profile
[IMG]http://img10.exs.cx/img10/4628/ac-Hmong8.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Is that an ugly white woman or ugly white man with that Hmong?
2004-12-06 23:06 | User Profile
Our African American brethren let us know that it's always Whitey's fault
[url]www.mercurynews.com[/url] (registration required)
Posted on Wed, Dec. 01, 2004 Some minority hunters face racial confrontations in woods
DETROIT - (KRT) - Last week's column about the six hunters killed in Wisconsin brought a lot of e-mails and telephone calls from black hunters in Michigan. A Hmong immigrant was charged with the shootings, and the black hunters didn't condone them. But they said they had been subjected to the same racist slurs and threats that might have triggered the Asian man's rampage.
I don't doubt those stories because I have been with white hunters who made racist comments when we saw black hunters in the fields. What really amazes me is how white hunters born and raised in northern Michigan, where they grew up with almost no contact with black people, are often as racist as any Ku Klux Klan member born and raised in the black belts of Mississippi or Alabama.
It was interesting that most of the black callers thought I was automatically accepting the word of the surviving white hunters, who said there was no reason for the killings and denied that anyone on their side made any racial slurs. The truth is I have no idea what happened other than what I've learned by reading the accounts of the incident and talking to people who probably don't know much more than I do.
And while I don't want to seem like a bleeding-heart liberal apologist for bad acts by the racially oppressed, I have learned enough about Hmong-white relations across this country in the last week that I would give 6-1 that one of the white hunters did say something nasty, and this time he said it to the wrong guy.
Chai Vang, the 36-year-old Laotian immigrant charged with killing six people and wounding two more in what began as a trespassing dispute, comes from a culture with a long tradition of hunting but no tradition of game laws, bag limits and formal hunting seasons as they are understood by Americans.
That lack of understanding has created resentment among some hunters, who say the Asians are notorious poachers and game violators and often trash rural areas with litter and garbage. Chai Vang once was ticketed by a Minnesota game warden for a fishing violation, taking 93 crappies above the legal limit.
The Hmong are here because they were armed and trained by us to fight on the American side during the Vietnam War. They have a long tradition as fighters and their courage was legendary, and sometimes so was their savagery. When we decided to bug out, so did many of the Hmong.
Police in Wisconsin said Vang admitted the shootings, but they still don't understand why he climbed down from the tree stand where he was trespassing, methodically removed the telescopic sight from his SKS rifle and shot at the other hunters until the 20-shot clip was empty.
Several black hunters in Michigan said the police need look no further than the racist epithets that Vang said the white hunters unleashed on him when they found him on their land. He also claimed that the white hunters were the first to fire a shot at him, something the two survivors denied.
It might turn out that Vang was an isolated nutcase. With more than 186,000 Hmong in the U.S., as of the 2000 census, and about 40,000 of them in Wisconsin and Minnesota, there is as much potential for violence perpetuated by a few deranged or evil people among the Hmong as among any other group. But the more I read about the tension between the Hmong community and its white neighbors in Minnesota and Wisconsin, the more I understand the feelings of the black hunters who called.
Several of the black hunters said they had been in situations through the years where white hunters leveled guns at them or even fired shots nearby.
"I was rabbit hunting with a black friend near Newaygo a few years ago when we met a group of six white guys who were rabbit hunting, too," said one black man, who, like the others, asked that his name not be used. "Three of them started on us right away, asking what we were doing in their hunting place, and why didn't we stay in Detroit where we belonged.
"The other three white guys didn't say anything, just stood there. One of the loudmouths told us that we had better leave if we knew what was good for us. We were on public land, and I was so mad I was about ready to make a stand. But my friend is a lot cooler head, and he said that it wasn't worth it and we should just go. So we left, and as we walked back to the car, I could hear three loudmouths laughing and calling us every nasty name you can think of and saying how we better never come back if we knew what was good for us. I wasn't ready to go kill them all because of what they said, but can you imagine how I felt?"
If white and black Americans still feel those tensions after living side-by-side for nearly 400 years, how do we adjust to a people as exotic as the Hmong?
One problem is that many Third World people have such a tough time surviving day-to-day that they haven't had the luxury of developing a strong conservation ethic. A few years ago in San Francisco, police found Hmong with handmade bows and arrows hunting squirrels, marmots and other furry critters year-round in Golden Gate Park. When they were ticketed, the Hmong couldn't understand why anyone would deny them such a bounty.
Though there is real and sometimes justified resentment from white hunters for what they see as unethical hunting practices by the Hmong, you only need to talk to a Wisconsin or Minnesota hunter for a few minutes before the criticisms change from hunting activities to social issues like polygamy and marrying girls at 13 and 14, practices many whites think are common among the Asian immigrants.
And you only need to talk to black hunters in Michigan for the same amount of time to hear stories about confrontations with whites that had the same potential for violence that we saw in Wisconsin. This one should be a lesson to every hunter.
2004-12-18 08:43 | User Profile
like i said.... racist rednecks deserved to DIE! Funny how one of them who got shot is a member of the united methodist church branch too. Yet, that person still talked shiet...I guess God punished that person alright...
2004-12-18 09:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Chai_Vang]like i said.... racist rednecks deserved to DIE! Funny how one of them who got shot is a member of the united methodist church branch too. Yet, that person still talked shiet...I guess God punished that person alright...[/QUOTE]
The only person claiming such racial epithets were spoken is the Hmong mass killer, who is using those allegations of racist remarks to escape being convicted of murder, hence his credibility hovers around zero.
2004-12-18 10:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Chai_Vang]like i said.... racist rednecks deserved to DIE! Funny how one of them who got shot is a member of the united methodist church branch too. Yet, that person still talked shiet...I guess God punished that person alright...[/QUOTE]
So are you Chinese or Japanese?
2004-12-30 02:20 | User Profile
The Wisconsin State Attorney General has decided to prosecute the case against Bang Bang Vang herself. Besides grandstanding for the press,(re-election in 2006), are we about to see these bottom feeding scum suckers, - er - I mean attorneys turn this case into a media circus type freak show. What do our friends from the Wisconsin area have to say about this?
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[url]http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/local/10520215.htm[/url]
Vang's defense team faces challenge COURTS: Attorneys make an appearance today in the case of a deer hunter charged in the shootings of eight Rice Lake hunters. BY KEVIN HARTER ST. PAUL PIONEER PRESS
Steven Kohn and his law partner, Jonathan Smith, have handled headline-making cases, but nothing to the degree of defending the St. Paul man charged with shooting eight hunters in Wisconsin last month.
About four hours after six Rice Lake-area deer hunters were shot and killed and two were wounded, Chai Soua Vang emerged from the woods and was taken immediately to the Sawyer County jail, where he remains on$2.5 million bond.
The legal experience and skills of Kohn, Smith and James Mentkowski will be put to the test to determine whether Vang, 36, will spend the rest of his life behind bars.
The next step in the legal process is today, when the defense attorneys -- along with the prosecutor, Wisconsin Attorney General Peggy Lautenschlager -- are expected in court for a preliminary hearing to determine whether the case continues to a trial date.
Lautenschlager's appearance as a prosecutor in the courtroom will be her first since she was elected in 2002. She said she wants to prosecute Vang because of her "personal interest" in cases that involve crimes against people. She last prosecuted the case of a kidnapper of a 12-year-old girl in the late 1990s, when she was a U.S. attorney.
Assisting with the prosecution are Wisconsin assistant attorneys general Roy Korte and Donald Latorraca.
Milwaukee defense attorney Kohn, by his estimate, has represented about 250 clients facing homicide charges, including Christopher Scarver, the prison killer of serial murderer Jeffrey Dahmer.
Milwaukee magazine has called Kohn one of the best criminal defense attorneys in the region, describing him as "very prepared, timely, personable and sensible."
Kohn's clients have included an Illinois banker who was arrested in an Internet child sex sting, a livestock broker who was charged with bilking 350 people in a check-kiting scam and an off-duty police officer charged in a shooting that put a man in a wheelchair.
The banker received one year in jail and five years of probation, the broker got 22 months in prison and the officer was acquitted.
In their phone-book ad, Kohn and Smith -- Twin Cities natives -- note that they have won state and federal court cases, successfully defending clients charged with computer and sex crimes, fraud, drug offenses and homicide.
Smith successfully filed a motion to get a jury from another county to hear the 2001 sexual-assault trial of former Green Bay Packer Mark Chmura. Chmura was acquitted.
Mentkowski has spent most of his career in personal injury law but has represented several Hmong individuals and a Hmong organization.
"They are all excellent, well-respected attorneys," said Steven Biskupic, U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Wisconsin, who prosecuted a 2001 fraud case and a 2002 drug case in which Kohn was the defense attorney and a 1999 fraud case in which Smith was the defense attorney.
Kohn said he has received inquiries about the case from the three major television networks and many cable stations, but he has declined to discuss Vang's defense.
Nor have the defense lawyers said how they are being paid. Legal fees are expected to top $350,000, legal experts said, not counting money required to hire expert consultants. Vang initially was to be represented by a public defender, but shortly after he met with the public defender, it was announced the private attorneys had taken over his case.
Representing Vang is a win-win situation for his attorneys, legal experts say. The case brings publicity for the lawyers and experience to the firm and, because the weight of the evidence released seems stacked against Vang, a guilty verdict would not be held against his lawyers.
Korte and Latorraca have about 30 years of experience between them.
It won't be the first time the defense and prosecution have met in court.
Kohn said he and Latorraca have faced each other several times, as have Smith and Korte.
In a 1998 case, Korte successfully prosecuted an attorney, represented by Smith, on two counts of fraud for overbilling the state public defender's office by about $140,000. The attorney faced up to 20 years in prison but was sentenced to five and ordered to pay back $53,280. The Associated Press contributed to this report.
é 2004 Duluth News Tribune and wire service sources. All Rights Reserved. [url]http://www.duluthsuperior.com[/url]
2004-12-30 02:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Stanley] It was interesting that most of the black callers thought I was automatically accepting the word of the surviving white hunters, who said there was no reason for the killings and denied that anyone on their side made any racial slurs. The truth is I have no idea what happened other than what I've learned by reading the accounts of the incident and talking to people who probably don't know much more than I do.
And while I don't want to seem like a bleeding-heart liberal apologist for bad acts by the racially oppressed, I have learned enough about Hmong-white relations across this country in the last week that I would give 6-1 that one of the white hunters did say something nasty, and this time he said it to the wrong guy. [/QUOTE] I happen to believe the account of the white hunters completely; however, even if they called this trespassing little maggot the worst names they could think of, have we truly come to a point where offending a minority is justifiable grounds for murder?
2004-12-30 07:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Blond Knight]Milwaukee defense attorney Kohn, by his estimate, has represented about 250 clients facing homicide charges, including Christopher Scarver, the prison killer of serial murderer Jeffrey Dahmer.
Milwaukee magazine has called Kohn one of the best criminal defense attorneys in the region, describing him as "very prepared, timely, personable and sensible."
Kohn's clients have included an Illinois banker who was arrested in an Internet child sex sting, a livestock broker who was charged with bilking 350 people in a check-kiting scam and an off-duty police officer charged in a shooting that put a man in a wheelchair.
The banker received one year in jail and five years of probation, the broker got 22 months in prison and the officer was acquitted.
In their phone-book ad, Kohn and Smith -- Twin Cities natives -- note that they have won state and federal court cases, successfully defending clients charged with computer and sex crimes, fraud, drug offenses and homicide.
Smith successfully filed a motion to get a jury from another county to hear the 2001 sexual-assault trial of former Green Bay Packer Mark Chmura. Chmura was acquitted.
"They are all excellent, well-respected attorneys," said Steven Biskupic, U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Wisconsin
Excellent. This way, when serial killer "Bang Bang" Vang gets convicted, and sentenced to life without the possibility of parole, no whiney "liberal" will be able to claim his conviction was a racist example of minorities not getting a fair shake in our criminal justice system, and thus we can safely take the key to his cell and hammer it into slag.
[QUOTE=Blond Knight]Mentkowski has spent most of his career in personal injury law but has represented several Hmong individuals and a Hmong organization.
I have little doubt most attorneys presently working in criminal defense law in that area have had extensive dealings with the Hmong rabble, er, "community."
[QUOTE=Blond Knight]Nor have the defense lawyers said how they are being paid. Legal fees are expected to top $350,000, legal experts said, not counting money required to hire expert consultants. Vang initially was to be represented by a public defender, but shortly after he met with the public defender, it was announced the private attorneys had taken over his case.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to know what walking pieces of garbage are shelling out 350K to defend this mass murdering gook doofus! Everyone knows the Hmong are behind him 110%, but you'd have at least thought the leaders of his "community"/crime syndicate would have the modicum of decency to pretend otherwise. Hypocrisy must be the only sin Hmong don't revel in.
2004-12-30 07:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Blond Knight]Milwaukee defense attorney Kohn, by his estimate, has represented about 250 clients facing homicide charges, including Christopher Scarver, the prison killer of serial murderer Jeffrey Dahmer.
Milwaukee magazine has called Kohn one of the best criminal defense attorneys in the region, describing him as "very prepared, timely, personable and sensible."
Kohn's clients have included an Illinois banker who was arrested in an Internet child sex sting, a livestock broker who was charged with bilking 350 people in a check-kiting scam and an off-duty police officer charged in a shooting that put a man in a wheelchair.
The banker received one year in jail and five years of probation, the broker got 22 months in prison and the officer was acquitted.
In their phone-book ad, Kohn and Smith -- Twin Cities natives -- note that they have won state and federal court cases, successfully defending clients charged with computer and sex crimes, fraud, drug offenses and homicide.
Smith successfully filed a motion to get a jury from another county to hear the 2001 sexual-assault trial of former Green Bay Packer Mark Chmura. Chmura was acquitted.
"They are all excellent, well-respected attorneys," said Steven Biskupic, U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Wisconsin
Excellent. This way, when serial killer "Bang Bang" Vang gets convicted, and sentenced to life without the possibility of parole, no whiney "liberal" will be able to claim his conviction was a racist example of minorities not getting a fair shake in our criminal justice system, and thus we can safely take the key to his cell and hammer it into slag.
[QUOTE=Blond Knight]Mentkowski has spent most of his career in personal injury law but has represented several Hmong individuals and a Hmong organization.
I have little doubt most attorneys presently working in criminal defense law in that area have had extensive dealings with the Hmong rabble, er, "community."
[QUOTE=Blond Knight]Nor have the defense lawyers said how they are being paid. Legal fees are expected to top $350,000, legal experts said, not counting money required to hire expert consultants. Vang initially was to be represented by a public defender, but shortly after he met with the public defender, it was announced the private attorneys had taken over his case.[/QUOTE]
I'd like to know what walking pieces of garbage are shelling out 350K to defend this mass murdering gook doofus! Everyone knows the Hmong are behind him 110%, but you'd have at least thought the leaders of his "community"/crime syndicate would have the modicum of decency to pretend otherwise. Hypocrisy must be the only sin Hmong don't revel in.
2005-01-03 21:48 | User Profile
A rant from VNN, has some interesting nuggets of information.
[url]http://www.vanguardnewsnetwork.com/2005/Veritas010105GotHmong.htm[/url]
2005-08-13 10:39 | User Profile
Hi all I'm new and just wanted to say hi. What's up with all of this raciest nonsense, it hard to get along but you know what we need to. If Vang is guilty so be it guys/ladies, I myself are Hmong and didn't like the title "Hmong" kills 5 hunters. The people that died did not deserve to die please don't say that, becuase what if it where you or your family come on get it real peeps and not all Hmong are bad people or jews or whites or blacks and etc. Every group of race has it's blacksheep and we need to help these blacksheep to improve and if not so be it. If Vang get's tried and sentence to life it's the path he took and man.... do i feel bad for his family and the victims family. It's a horrible thing to happen. I was born in Missoula MT and raised in a small city call tri-cities of WA state. I love small city cause great people live there and if something where to happen like that here I would feel unsafe myself but lucky for me I'm the only Hmong in this small of a town. I just pray that the family of the victims forgive Vang and Vang should ask for it (to be forgiven the victims family). Laters all
2005-08-13 18:30 | User Profile
I myself are Hmong? lol. Even though you say you were born in the U.S. some of your sentences suggest you just got off the boat.
2005-08-13 18:33 | User Profile
"racist nonsense" is a non-starter, that's for sure.
2005-08-23 06:34 | User Profile
WOW! How nice of you to say that I'm Fresh of the boat! LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!...................... Sorry that my grammer is not that great! Nice Icon! LOL......... It's just funny to see all of this race crap going around ya know and also sad! Ignorance is what it is! Thank You! :)
2005-08-23 06:44 | User Profile
To say your grammar is "not that great" is an extreme understatement. As for your comment about my avatar, well, thank you:lol: a lit cross has always seemed to me to be something that would be quite a beautiful sight to behold.