← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Faust
Thread ID: 15514 | Posts: 20 | Started: 2004-11-01
2004-11-01 23:16 | User Profile
More on the so-called "Promise Keepers'
[url]http://littlegeneva.com/badlands/index.php?p=31[/url]
[url]http://www.markgodfrey.com/blog/more.php?id=459_0_1_0_M[/url]
I have always been sickened by these Girlie Men!
2004-11-02 08:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]More on the so-called "Promise Keepers'
[url]http://littlegeneva.com/badlands/index.php?p=31[/url]
[url]http://www.markgodfrey.com/blog/more.php?id=459_0_1_0_M[/url]
I have always been sickened by these Girlie Men![/QUOTE] Godfrey has some good points, although he oversimplifies things somewhat.
There certainly is an argument for spiritual egalitarianism in Christianity. That after all, is what differentiates Christianity from Judaism and the concept of "the chosen race". God wants all men, and all races, to be saved. The problem comes with the latitudinarian tendency that changes that to all men already have been saved.
Anyway, good to see Godfrey making some unPC noises.
2004-11-02 15:15 | User Profile
Back when I was just awaking racially, I went to the Promise Keepers stadium event in Kansas City. This was back when PK was all the rage. It cost 60 bucks and I went there with a church group.
Essentially everyone there was white. 50,000 white people. But, most of the speakers were non-white.
I had expected Bill McCartney to deliver a sermon on something like men taking their position at the head of the family. But, instead, he delivered a sermon on how evil and racist we all were.
He told us to look around at all the white faces. He told us that there weren't any blacks there because we were all so racist. Even as young and naive as I was at the time, I thought to myself that the real reason there weren't any blacks there is because blacks are themselves racist and aren't going to spend 60 bucks to be with a bunch of whites.
Bill McCartney, with his organization, showed that there's a hunger for a men's religious movement. But, McCartney also did his best to choke that hunger with his groveling, pantywaste organization. I guess it could have been worse. He could have told us all to hug each other like we huged our wives.
2004-11-02 16:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Happy Hacker]......I had expected Bill McCartney to deliver a sermon on something like men taking their position at the head of the family. But, instead, he delivered a sermon on how evil and racist we all were.
He told us to look around at all the white faces. He told us that there weren't any blacks there because we were all so racist. Even as young and naive as I was at the time, I thought to myself that the real reason there weren't any blacks there is because blacks are themselves racist and aren't going to spend 60 bucks to be with a bunch of whites..... [/QUOTE] Thanks for explaining that story. It's one thing I think to we need to make clear, which I don't really get from Godfrey, exactly what we are talking about when we say PK and even Dobson are radical racial egalitarians.
Wishing and trying to get more blacks and mexicans to think like , act like, and follow Christ does make you a radical egalitarian by itself of course. Its when they start raving like this and say the reason they don't is cause we whites are all racist.
2004-11-02 16:04 | User Profile
“If I become political in any direction, I’ll become 50% less effective,” said Marc Erickson, pastor of Eastbrook Church in Milwaukee, an inner-city church whose parishioners are white, black, Latino and Asian.
But just what does he mean by "effective". I tell you that you simply cannot preach the Gospel in multi-racial churches. Why? Well try preaching on the murderous crime of abortion in a substanitally non-white church. Then you'll know the meaning of ineffective, because of two related factors. One) Interracial churches are young churches. 1a) young churches are liberal churches. You could lose half your congregation in a week. No, in interracial churches you preach on "love", and "love" is defined as "fairness", and when you hear the word "fairness" hold on to your wallet (if you're a white man).
This is an interesting point by Godfrey, but I think it's better stated to say that only the gospel is being preached in these multi-racial, 'praise centers'. What you don't have is law, specifically in issues like abortion to use Godfrey's example.
I'll have to think on the long-term ramifications of this trend, but one very apparent one is the overt, even if unstated, social/political policy of liberal, PC multiculturalism a la Frankfurt School.
2004-11-02 17:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]This is an interesting point by Godfrey, but I think it's better stated to say that only the gospel is being preached in these multi-racial, 'praise centers'. What you don't have is law, specifically in issues like abortion to use Godfrey's example. I don't understand your theology here. You're separating the gospel from law? Jesus said "why do ye call me Lord, Lord, and do not the things I say" I don't think even except (for maybe the most liberal) Lutherans teach this.
I'll have to think on the long-term ramifications of this trend, but one very apparent one is the overt, even if unstated, social/political policy of liberal, PC multiculturalism a la Frankfurt School.[/QUOTE] I'm surprised - you sound like you just heard of it. It seems to what all the hot new theology schools are teaching their hotshot young preachers these days.
Long, or even medium term ramifications don'yt seem that hard to see for me. Try Sodom and Gomorrah.
2004-11-02 18:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]I don't understand your theology here. You're separating the gospel from law? Jesus said "why do ye call me Lord, Lord, and do not the things I say" I don't think even except (for maybe the most liberal) Lutherans teach this.
Law and gospel is fundamental to Lutheran theology. It's the framework wherein we interpret all Scripture. Law is used to work conviction and bring sin to light and secondly as a standard for the civil order. The gospel is of course, the Good News. Too much law leads to a rigid legalism and gospel without law leads to a universal antinomianism. I think this latter case is widespread in these multicultural praise centers. IOW, Jesus' love is in fashion, God as judge is out.
[url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14820[/url]
2004-11-02 20:53 | User Profile
The Christian West is desperately in need of a men's movement, but not one that will further their cultural and spiritual emasculation. It is funny that this topic came up, because I have been toying with the idea of starting a local group along these lines. My idea would be to name it after one of the warrior saints of the Church, such as St. George or St. Sebastien, and to encourage the physical, intellectual, and spiritual growth of the members. Christian soldiers, if you will. The idea would be to base it around active pursuits, instead of endless talking.
2004-11-02 20:57 | User Profile
Don't know much about the PKs, although I once saw a news clip where a bunch of these guys were hugging each other :ph34r: and crying like some old women. :eek:
Seemed like typical Pentecostal hysteria...
2004-11-03 02:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Law and gospel is fundamental to Lutheran theology. It's the framework wherein we interpret all Scripture.
That's what I thought(hoped)
Too much law leads to a rigid legalism and gospel without law leads to a universal antinomianism. I think this latter case is widespread in these multicultural praise centers. IOW, Jesus' love is in fashion, God as judge is out.[/QUOTE] Well that's a general tendency of culture. James Davison Hunter did a good analysis of the trend of evangelicals in "Evangelicalism - the Coming Generation".
I don't know exactly how numerically significant these "multicultural praise centers" are. But multicultural rhetoric and gestures seems obligatory now for any Church that aspires to be modern and trendy.
2004-11-03 02:36 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]The Christian West is desperately in need of a men's movement, but not one that will further their cultural and spiritual emasculation. It is funny that this topic came up, because I have been toying with the idea of starting a local group along these lines. My idea would be to name it after one of the warrior saints of the Church, such as St. George or St. Sebastien, and to encourage the physical, intellectual, and spiritual growth of the members. Christian soldiers, if you will. The idea would be to base it around active pursuits, instead of endless talking.[/QUOTE] Well I agree that a men's movement is badly needed. Many men today are deeply alienated from the established Churches I think, as has been noted before, by increasingly feminist sounding culture of the Churches - which blends both the old and new matriarchial domination patterns.
McCartney - he was an airhead IMO. But he did have the massive media presence and savvy which seemed to be what the PK primarily were and wer based on.
As for men's movements - what do you think paleoconservatism is (and WN)? In fact I think that's what's needed for paleoconservatism - it needs a way to reach out more to the mass of unpoliticized but covertly quite feministphobic from personal experience.
I think that's really the lesson of PK. McCartney just played to the media tendencies in focusing on race. Any mass movement of men will be watched like a hawk anyway for unPC tendencies, as PK was from the femist left, even though we find it hilarious.
2004-11-03 09:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]More on the so-called "Promise Keepers'.....
I have always been sickened by these Girlie Men![/QUOTE] BTW, Franco was actually a little more right than I guess we gave him credit for
[URL=http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11618&highlight=Christianity+Marxism]Is Christianity De Facto Marxism?[/URL]
2004-11-04 06:54 | User Profile
Let us also remember he can not keep his our house in order. McCartney's daughter is a whore. She had two half Afro babies by two Black football payers, this all happened after he started the so-called "Promise Keepers"! Now that is sick!
2004-11-04 13:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]Let us also remember he can not keep his our house in order. McCartney's daughter is a whore. She had two half Afro babies by two Black football payers, this all happened after he started the so-called "Promise Keepers"! Now that is sick![/QUOTE]
I didn't know that. Do you have a link? These black boyfriends definitely did not attend his meetings. If he wanted to reach out to black men he should have started with them. A real man and leader of his family would have taken action against a seducer of his daughter or turned the whore out of the house.
2004-11-04 13:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]Let us also remember he can not keep his our house in order. McCartney's daughter is a whore. She had two half Afro babies by two Black football payers, this all happened after he started the so-called "Promise Keepers"! Now that is sick![/QUOTE] It seems to me that this (at least one baby) happened before PK, and was one of the things that motivated him to start it, although I'm a little fuzzy on the details.
Anyway, the Colorado program has always had a low reputation morally (even among football programs), as I understand it. The Barnett revelations weren't really anything new for them.
2004-11-06 05:30 | User Profile
Skemper and Okiereddust,
I saw a TV news story on McCartney a few years back. I think it said both babies came about after he sarted "Promise Keepers." But it was a few years back so I do not remember the details. And I have never seen a story with any deatails about his whorish daughter.
What kind of a sicko lets the football players he coaches use his own child as a whore?
[QUOTE]Lyndi McCartney realized that her husband was just as hooked on ministry as he was on coaching.
"As PK grew, every ounce of Bill's time was spent on this additional love in his life," she said, in one of her commentaries in "Sold Out," a spiritual autobiography by Bill McCartney and journalist David Halbrook. "Instead of his time being consumed during football season, it was consumed all year long - in the name of an organization that promotes being a godly husband and father. ... I grew to resent PK as just another thief that stole my husband away from me."
She hid in the empty nest of their home outside Boulder, Colo., fighting depression and bulimia with the aid of stacks of self-help books. She saw her only daughter deliver a second child out of wedlock -- both fathered by football players. Lyndi McCartney lost 80 pounds and thought about suicide. About this time the coach confessed that, shortly before his 1974 "born again" conversion, he had committed adultery.
[url]http://tmatt.gospelcom.net/column/1997/11/19/[/url] [/QUOTE]
And
Bill McCartney And Promise Keepers [url]http://bz.llano.net/baptist/pkarticles.htm[/url]
Skemper,
You are most Right.
[QUOTE]A real man and leader of his family would have taken action against a seducer of his daughter or turned the whore out of the house.[/QUOTE]
2004-11-06 07:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]What kind of a sicko lets the football players he coaches use his own child as a whore?[/QUOTE] I don't know. In the old days you had the old "shotgun wedding" but law enforcement looks on these tactics with a stern eye these days. Its difficult being a father, and I'm not going to cackle or moralize over McCartney's problems.
Except that it does have to make you wonder at his qualifications to tell other men how to be fathers. What's the old saying: them that can do, them that can't teach, them that can't teach, become administrators.
McCartney seems to be a good administrator.
2004-11-07 01:09 | User Profile
Regarding Bill McCartney daughter, the apple didn't fall far from the tree.
2004-11-07 03:02 | User Profile
Hack, I had the same damn experience when i went to it out in Denver, CO in 1995. All he did was rant on about racism. I thought, "Come on, give me a break, I don't need your pontificating you bastard."
Anyway, I've always known about Sal Aunese's kid....but I ddin't know she squirted out another half-ling. Sheez. I'd disown that jezebel.
2004-11-07 06:02 | User Profile
Happy Hacker
Yes! Regarding Bill McCartney daughter, the apple didn't fall far from the tree.
[QUOTE]A 1989 story reported that the daughter of hallowed University of Colorado football coach Bill McCartney had given birth to a child conceived with star quarterback Sal Aunese. Westword went on to say that Aunese wasn't discovered to be the father until several candidates -- all football players -- had taken paternity blood tests. Rumors had been circulating around Denver for some time, but until Westword's story, nothing firm had been printed. When Aunese died of cancer shortly after the baby was born, much of laid-back Denver concluded that the paper was on an extremely cruel streak.
[url]http://www.newtimes.com/amway.html[/url] [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]There are other compelling parts to this story, though. There's the revelation that McCartney's only daughter, Kristen, who in 1989 gave birth to the child of ailing Colorado quarterback Sal Aunese, has had another child. (Aunese, who didn't admit paternity until a blood test did it for him, died of cancer when his son was five months old; McCartney publicly acknowledged his grandchild at Aunese's memorial service.) Fifteen months ago Kristen gave birth to the son of Shannon Clavelle, another of her father's more infamous charges. (Last month the defensive tackle received a deferred sentence on an assault charge; Aunese's rap sheet rated a place in SI's infamous "What Price Glory?" piece on CU's brawlers back in 1989.)
"I had been dating Shannon for a while, which they didn't like," Kristen told SI about her parents. "But I was a grown woman, 24 years old. They couldn't tell me what to do. When I did tell them I was pregnant, they were hurt and upset, but completely supportive."
Supportive, in fact, to the point of continuing to support Kristy, an unemployed, unmarried masseuse, and her growing family.
It's arguably admirable that McCartney has seen fit to embrace his daughter's two children, and that his wife, Lyndi, is willing to babysit while Kristy continues to party. And it's true that it's difficult to tell a 24-year-old daughter what to do. Except that if you are supporting her, you can tell her to stay away from your football players. Or you can resign your position as coach, and stay away yourself.
McCartney's inability to influence his daughter wouldn't be so annoying if he weren't so busy trying to influence everyone else. This summer he preached to over 50,000 men who'd gathered at Folsom Field for the fourth annual Promise Keepers rally. He told them that their families must be their first priority, that men must take charge of their wives. The speech would have been much more impressive if McCartney actually practiced what he preached--but he's been saying essentially the same thing for years.
[url]http://www.westword.com/issues/1995-01-18/news/calhoun.html[/url] [/QUOTE]