← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Walter Yannis
Thread ID: 14993 | Posts: 26 | Started: 2004-09-13
2004-09-13 14:34 | User Profile
I ran into an [URL=http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Galiza]intersting thing [/URL] on the Spanish province of Galicia today:
[QUOTE]The Celtic heritage of Galicia is often celebrated, and it is sometimes claimed that the [B]last Galician Celtic speaker died in the 15th century[/B]. In fact, the name Galicia (Galiza) comes from the name of the ancient Celtic tribe that resided there, the Gallaeci. [/QUOTE]
I knew that the Galicians are Celts (their ancient ancestors colonized Ireland and become the Gaels of Ireland and Scotland), but I had no idea that their Celtic language lived on that long. Heck, the Romans conquered the place first century BC, I do believe.
Interesting.
Walter
2004-09-13 14:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis] I knew that the Galicians are Celts (their ancient ancestors colonized Ireland and become the Gaels of Ireland and Scotland), but I had no idea that their Celtic language lived on that long. Heck, the Romans conquered the place first century BC, I do believe.[/QUOTE] Three cheers for stubbornly preserving one's culture in the face of empire! This is a fine example for us to follow.
2004-09-13 14:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]I knew that the Galicians are Celts (their ancient ancestors colonized Ireland and become the Gaels of Ireland and Scotland), but I had no idea that their Celtic language lived on that long. Heck, the Romans conquered the place first century BC, I do believe.[/QUOTE]
According to my atlas, the Spanish province of Galicia, as well as a portion of northern Portugal, still speak a separate dialect of Spanish, known as Galician, which contains substantial Celtic influence. A college roommate of mine visited Galicia and said that the people their speak Spanish with what sounds like an Irish or Scottish accent (and there are many redheads). Galicia is the only province of Spain never conquered by the Muslims, which may also contribute to the greater preponderance of redheads and other classically Celtic/Aryan features, i.e. the fact that the women of Galicia were never subjected to mass rape by Moors.
2004-09-13 18:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]According to my atlas, the Spanish province of Galicia, as well as a portion of northern Portugal, still speak a separate dialect of Spanish, known as Galician, which contains substantial Celtic influence. A college roommate of mine visited Galicia and said that the people their speak Spanish with what sounds like an Irish or Scottish accent (and there are many redheads). Galicia is the only province of Spain never conquered by the Muslims, which may also contribute to the greater preponderance of redheads and other classically Celtic/Aryan features, i.e. the fact that the women of Galicia were never subjected to mass rape by Moors.[/QUOTE]
Galician music is also considered part of the "Celtic music" world
Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Brittany, and Galicia all have very similar musical traditions.
I was in Madrid last summer, and a group of Galician street musicians were playing. They had bag pipes, but not like Scottish bagpipes. They looked a lot like bagpipes I saw in Croatia.
Did you know that Cornish - the Celtic language of Cornwall - was spoken into the 20th century? Recordings of native speakers exist.
I think that the Celtic languages are, tragically, doomed to extinction.
Walter
2004-09-13 18:14 | User Profile
I once knew an elderly Welshman who told me that when he was a kid every year women from Brittany would come to Wales to sell various things from their bicycles loaded down with stuff.
I think he mentioned onions, or was it tulip bulbs? Don't recall.
The interesting point was that they could communicate with each other in their native Celtic languages, which I found somewhat surprising since I would have assumed that the two languages were separated for just the longest time. I suppose it means that there were always a lot of contacts between Brittany and Wales through the ages.
I think that Portugal was Celtic, too, before the Roman conquest. It is, I think, Port-du-Gael, or Port of the Gaels. No?
I should have included the Isle of Man (language called Manx) out of the list of Celtic groups above.
Walter
2004-09-13 19:30 | User Profile
Walter Yannis,
Don't forget the Galatians who Paul peached to. The Epistle to the Galatians was written to a Celtic tribe. They were Celts who colonized Asia Minor
From what I have read, the Welsh language is not dying out, the Welshmen seem to be the only group fight for their language and culture. It is used in schools in part. And it is said that Welsh student often speaks better Welsh than their parents. It drive the English crazy because streat signs are all in Welsh these days. They are sadly the only Celts to fight for thier Culture.
Sadly the rest of the Celtic languages are likely, tragically, doomed to extinction. I always wondered the hell is wrong with Irish, they fight to break away from the UK, and then fail to do anything to protect their culture. I think the language of Brittany is still spoken some. Brittany was the place the Celts went after being driving out of what became England by the Anglo-Saxon. Gaelic is still spoken by small numbers in Ireland and Scotland. The languages of Man and Cornwall are studied by people who play with the idea of speaking them once more.
Some links:
CORNISH LANGUAGE PAGE [url]http://www.ozemail.com.au/~kevrenor/kevren.html[/url]
2004-09-13 20:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE]From what I have read, the Welsh language is not dying out, the Welshmen seem to be the only group fight for their language and culture. It is used in schools in part. And it is said that Welsh student often speaks better Welsh than their parents. It drive the English crazy because streat signs are all in Welsh these days. They are sadly the only Celts to fight for thier Culture.[/QUOTE]
Petty Celtic nationalism may appeal to Americans but to the English (and many Scotch, Welsh and Irish) it is a pain in the arse although thankfully on the wane.
Plaid Cymru (Welsh Nationalist Party) are as pathetically eager to appear PeeCee and multicultural as the Scottish National Party and both sides of the sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland. The party with an apt acronymn of PC moan about white-flighters from Birmingham moving into mid and north Wales, but considers protests at the rather more severe culture shock the inhabitants of Brum have had in recent years (at it races with Leicester to become England's first white minority city) as shockingly "racist". Perhaps we ought to cut out the middle bit and dump half a million blacks and browns in North Wales, but give them lessons in Welsh and all will be OK?
BTW it is the 100% English speaking, English football supporting inhabitants of South Wales who tend to show their annoyance at bilingual road signs.
The people of the British Isles have been united by blood and history for a very long time, we need to stop the brown tide engulfing us before resuming inconsequential internal squabbles.
2004-09-14 05:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]Walter Yannis,
Don't forget the Galatians who Paul peached to. The Epistle to the Galatians was written to a Celtic tribe. They were Celts who colonized Asia Minor[/QUOTE]
That's right. Of course, the Galatians arent' around any more.
I understand that they hailed from Northern Spain around what is now Galicia, and since the Gaels of Ireland and Scotland came from there, too, some refer to St. Paul's Epistle to the Galatians as his "Letter to the Irish."
Walter
2004-09-14 12:54 | User Profile
My wife's grandparents came from Galicia. People from Galicia are called [I]Gallegos[/I] (guy-yea-gos). My wife has red hair and some of her siblings are blonde, but her dad has black hair, go figure. There's an awesome Spanish cuisine restaurant in Miami called [I]El Gallegaso[/I] and if you're ever down in Miami, I highly recommend this place for the food and the atmosphere are simply awesome.
2004-09-14 17:17 | User Profile
Gallegos is a rather common name among the Spanish.
Lots of Mexicans named Gallegos.
Another is de Vasco, meaning the "Basque."
2004-09-14 20:29 | User Profile
And then you have ,,,,Galiano and Galino.
2004-09-15 02:53 | User Profile
Jim,
Well from what understand the Plaid Cymru is run by pro-nonwhite marxist scum. I don't think all Welsh Nationalist like that. I saw Welsh Nationalist website that openly said they wanted all non-white deport from the British Isles. It also attacked the Plaid Cymru. The IRA is an ever sicker example of fake nationalist groups run by marxists.
Being that I am part English, Irish, and Scottish I can agree with you very much "The people of the British Isles have been united by blood and history for a very long time, we need to stop the brown tide engulfing us before resuming inconsequential internal squabbles." Much of my family came from British Isles 1600's and seeing the British Isles under attack by non-european scum upsets me greatly.
Keep posting nice to have some member outside the USA.
2004-09-22 08:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]I think that the Celtic languages are, tragically, doomed to extinction.[/QUOTE]
I think Irish Gaelic will easily outlive the present century (the others are clearly doomed, however).
2004-09-22 09:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]I always wondered the hell is wrong with Irish, they fight to break away from the UK, and then fail to do anything to protect their culture. [/QUOTE]
It is my understanding that the Rep. of Ireland contains approximately 70,000 exclusive Irish Gaelic speakers, i.e. they don't speak English (mainly along the northwest coast of Connachta), and that a substantial portion of the population is bilingual. You can't get a job as a teacher, police officer, postal worker or with the civil service unless you can prove you are fluent in Irish Gaelic. The situation may not be as bad as you apparently think.
2004-09-22 13:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]It is my understanding that the Rep. of Ireland contains approximately 70,000 exclusive Irish Gaelic speakers, i.e. they don't speak English (mainly along the northwest coast of Connachta), and that a substantial portion of the population is bilingual. You can't get a job as a teacher, police officer, postal worker or with the civil service unless you can prove you are fluent in Irish Gaelic. The situation may not be as bad as you apparently think.[/QUOTE]
Well just to clarify a little: inhabitants of the Gaeltacht can speak fluent English, they just chose not to for everyday purposes. Proficiency in Irish is no longer a civil service entry requirement, however every Irish born child in the Republic is legally obliged to study Gaeilge as school attendance is compulsory and Irish is a mandatory subject (along with English and Maths).
2004-09-22 13:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]Well just to clarify a little: inhabitants of the Gaeltacht can speak fluent English, they just chose not to for everyday purposes. Proficiency in Irish is no longer a civil service entry requirement, however every Irish born child in the Republic is legally obliged to study Gaeilge as school attendance is compulsory and Irish is a mandatory subject (along with English and Maths).[/QUOTE]
Do you speak it?
2004-09-23 13:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]Do you speak it?[/QUOTE] Poorly, linguistics isnââ¬â¢t my forte. Iââ¬â¢ve always felt some class of numerical system should replace ââ¬Ånatural languageââ¬Â. Hell, Iââ¬â¢m still struggling to master the primitive, guttural tongue of the English never-mind a nuanced and sophisticated language like Irish.
2004-09-23 14:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]Poorly, linguistics isnââ¬â¢t my forte. Iââ¬â¢ve always felt some class of numerical system should replace ââ¬Ånatural languageââ¬Â. Hell, Iââ¬â¢m still struggling to master the primitive, guttural tongue of the English never-mind a nuanced and sophisticated language like Irish.[/QUOTE]
Some of my ancestors spoke Irish when they came to Wisconsin as refugees from the Great Famine.
In fact, a family tradition has it that some of them didn't speak English.
My Grandmother had a little bit. I remember a few words from her when I was a baby. "Makushla", "buchol rue" (spelling?).
W
2004-09-23 20:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]My Grandmother had a little bit. I remember a few words from her when I was a baby. "Makushla", "buchol rue" (spelling?).[/QUOTE]
Makushla is Mo Chuisle (Muh Cush-la), usually meaning "my love" in either a romantic or non-romantic context. Literally it means "my (heart)beat".
Buchol is probably Buchaill (Boo-cahl) meaning "boy".
The only word I can think of for 'rue' is rua (Rue-a): "red". Referring to people by their hair colour was very common in Irish. A tradition that may have lived on in the American south with the nickname 'Red'. You're not a redhead are you Walter?
2004-09-23 20:36 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]A tradition that may have lived on in the American south with the nickname 'Red'.[/QUOTE] Come to think of it the other two nicknames are 'Black' (brown or black) and 'White' (blond), so I can see why their usage died out :boxing:
2004-11-14 00:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]Well just to clarify a little: inhabitants of the Gaeltacht can speak fluent English, they just chose not to for everyday purposes. Proficiency in Irish is no longer a civil service entry requirement, however every Irish born child in the Republic is legally obliged to study Gaeilge as school attendance is compulsory and Irish is a mandatory subject (along with English and Maths).[/QUOTE]
Eirse, or whatever the 'native' irish language is is dieing. No-one young speaks it and there are probably more speakers of Urdu and Igbo living on the Septic Isle. Welsh will probably last a bit longer (heavily subsidised).
Revival of dead languages is phony patriotism, perhaps you think the English should go back to speaking Anglo-Saxon?
2004-11-14 19:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]Makushla is Mo Chuisle (Muh Cush-la), usually meaning "my love" in either a romantic or non-romantic context. Literally it means "my (heart)beat".
Buchol is probably Buchaill (Boo-cahl) meaning "boy".
The only word I can think of for 'rue' is rua (Rue-a): "red". Referring to people by their hair colour was very common in Irish. A tradition that may have lived on in the American south with the nickname 'Red'. You're not a redhead are you Walter?[/QUOTE]
No, but my brother was.
W
2004-11-14 21:48 | User Profile
Ponce <------- in trouble now, hes a black Irish, lol.
2004-11-15 12:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Jim]Eirse, or whatever the 'native' irish language is[/QUOTE] Gaeilge or Irish, surely you encountered the term when conducting the extensive demographic analysis you've summarised above?
[QUOTE=Jim]Revival of dead languages is phony patriotism,[/QUOTE] It's certainly an activity supported by many phoney patriots within the British Isles. Or a least by groups who are content with defining themselves through the lens of who they are not rather than the trickier business of who they are. Offered as an end in itself language revivalism is one hell of an expensive white elephant. It recently emerged here that the translation of civil service documentation into Irish is set to cost the taxpayer 150 million Euro. A ridiculous project as the only people who'll ever read 99.9% of that documentation as Gaeilge are the translators themselves.
That said language is still the single most important encapsulator of cultural heritage; cultural preservation is impossible without it. As such I view beneficial revivalism, or a least preservation, as a question of emphasis and balance.
[QUOTE=Jim]perhaps you think the English should go back to speaking Anglo-Saxon?[/QUOTE] You're not comparing like with like. (Low) English is a continuity of Anglo-Saxon with the languages of the later ruling (French), ecclesiastical and intellectual (Latin) classes grafted on. This has enabled a cultural and literary continuity from Chaucer, through to Shakespeare and onto Keats. As a language and a culture bearer it lives on even if the culture it encapsulates has withered.
2004-11-15 15:37 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Jim]there are probably more speakers of Urdu and Igbo living on the Septic Isle.[/QUOTE]
Anti-Irish sentiment on the part of the British is so sad and pathetic. Irish people, and those of Irish descent, shouldn't have negative feelings towards the British either (after all, our common enemies, most principally the Jews, as well as the Blacks, Muslims, Chinese, etc., can only delight in such intra-racial division - not to mention the simple fact that Ireland has been an independent Republic since 1949, and hence its rather time to move on), and yet with the history of British imperialism in Ireland, you can at least understand why some of them would (misguidedly) harbor hateful sentiments towards the British (the English, really). There's just something distasteful about a more powerful aggressor spewing bigoted venom on his former victims. I'm so sorry my ancestors (including my maternal grandfather, who raised no small sum of money for Irish nationalist causes in the Boston area during the 1940s and 50s) weren't more accomodating to English aspirations of national greatness.
2004-11-16 09:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]Anti-Irish sentiment on the part of the British is so sad and pathetic. Irish people, and those of Irish descent, shouldn't have negative feelings towards the British either (after all, our common enemies, most principally the Jews, as well as the Blacks, Muslims, Chinese, etc., can only delight in such intra-racial division - not to mention the simple fact that Ireland has been an independent Republic since 1949, and hence its rather time to move on), and yet with the history of British imperialism in Ireland, you can at least understand why some of them would (misguidedly) harbor hateful sentiments towards the British (the English, really). There's just something distasteful about a more powerful aggressor spewing bigoted venom on his former victims. I'm so sorry my ancestors (including my maternal grandfather, who raised no small sum of money for Irish nationalist causes in the Boston area during the 1940s and 50s) weren't more accomodating to English aspirations of national greatness.[/QUOTE]
My family also had very strong Irish nationalist tendencies. My Irish grandmother couldn't hear the mention of Oliver Cromwell without interjecting "and may the divil blow quiclime up his arse!"
I try to look at these things more objectively. You know, the writings of the great English nationalist G.K. Chesterton are like a much needed soothing balm for the Irish psyche. Here is a proud Englishman who frankly admits his nation's crimes in regard to Ireland (see his Crimes of England) but then convincingly relates Irish oppression to the horrors visited upon the English yoemanry. It's pushing it pretty far to call the Hanoverian kings and their Hessian bullyboys "English", after all. But this without any pandering - Chesterton would never have tolerated any notion that England is somehow delegitimized as a nation for past failings, as PeeCee would have it.
England is one of the great nations of history, perhaps even the greatest that ever was. England produced the greatest scientist (Newton) and poet (Shakespeare) the world has ever seen. It was Ireland's fate to have been located next to God's crucible. It's a great credit to the Irish that Ireland even survived the heat of modern history's blast furnace.
But in any event, it's time to move on. England needs to recognize its soul-sickness in its sneering contempt for the Irish, admit its historical failings frankly, and come up with a generous final settlement to the Ulster problem (gerrymandering the border is probably the best approach). The Irish in turn need to forgive and forget, and demostrate to the world that they truly among the most venerable of all the Christian churches. That said, the Irish should also re-commit to preserving their religion, language and bloodlines. The Irish, who survived repeated Imperial attempts at genocide, owe it to the world to be even more Irish than they are now.
Not that any of this will be particularly easy.
We need to heal the old wounds of Christendom.
Walter