← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Petr
Thread ID: 14989 | Posts: 27 | Started: 2004-09-13
2004-09-13 10:02 | User Profile
Elizabeth Dillingââ¬â¢s online Talmud-expose masterpiece ââ¬ÅThe Jewish Religion: Its Influence Todayââ¬Â also contains a nice description of the excellent relations between Talmudic Jews and neo-pagans in Renaissance Italy, so cruelly interrupted by Reformation and Counter-Reformation:
[url]http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/chapt02.html[/url]
ââ¬Â¦ [COLOR=Blue] ââ¬ÅThe Jewish Encyclopedia continues: [/COLOR]
[COLOR=Sienna]Alexander VI (Borgia), known in history as the most profligate of the Popes, was rather favorably inclined toward the Jews. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=Blue]Leo X, one of the Medicis who fanned the Reformation by sponsoring a great renaissance of paganism and filled the Platonic Academy and salons of Rome and Florence with Jews, expounding Talmud and occult Cabalism, is called [/COLOR] [COLOR=Sienna]
the humanist ââ¬Â¦ favorably inclined toward the Jews, whom he a employed not only as physicians, but also as artists and in other positions at his court. The beginning of the Reformation influenced his action in the controversy between Reuchlin and Pfeferkorn which he settled in such a way as not to give any encouragement to those who demanded reforms in the Church.[/COLOR] [COLOR=Blue] The story of the sincerely converted Jew, Pfefferkorn, who aired the infamies of the Talmud, as opposed by the Catholic renegade, Reuchlin, dupe of the head of the Jewish community of Rome, and the pro-Jewish Medici Pope, ended with Pfefferkorn being silenced, Reuchlin not being tried for heresy, as he was scheduled to be and indeed should have been, and with two hostile camps in nearly every German town taking sides for or against the Talmud.
One may ask: "How could anyone reading what the Talmud says [see reproductions elsewhere herein] argue about its contents?" In this regard, however, it must be remembered that only with the relatively unexpurgated Soncino translation of the Talmud in this century, in the contemporary language, English, has it become possible for the non-Jew to receive the full impact of what the Talmud says. In other trials arguments could rage as to what a Yiddish or Hebrew text of the Talmud really meant, if translated. Nevertheless, the Jews always ultimately lost such arguments, as witness the condemnation of the Talmud by non-Jews through the centuries.
Even the Soncino English translation of the Talmud is not readily available except in major libraries, to be read there and not taken out.
Clement VII (another Medici servant of Jewry) was the bastard son of Guilio, brother of Lorenzo the Magnificent, who founded a pagan salon, the Platonic Academy. The Platonic Academy attempted the old Talmudic strategy of "harmonizing" pagan philosophy with Christianity, as Maimonides had tried to do with Biblical Judaism. Lorenzo had his son Giovanni (Leo X) made a Cardinal, through his influence with Innocent VIII, at 13, having also been made an Archbishop at 7. Ready to ascend the throne, Giovanni promptly made five of his relatives Cardinals, including his bastard cousin, Giulio. Leo X (Giovanni), made Pope on March 11, 1513, was ordained a priest on the 15th and made a Bishop on the 19th of the same month, and he reigned until December 1, 1521, nine years.
It was this Pope, Leo X, who launched the selling of indulgences in 1517, the immediate cause of Luther's break with the Church, and of Europe's arousal. Every effort was made to corrupt and Talmudize the Church from the inside, while Jewry worked to wreck it from the outside. The hotheads among Jews, says Jewish historian Cecil Roth, expected to end Christianity and supplant it with Talmudism.
But when Luther nailed his theses on the Wittenberg Cathedral door, he nailed the Jews back into the ghetto, and Popes eager for Christian faith and morals were elected in place of the pro-Talmudic "humanist" Medici popes. Luther, in turn, found the same forces polluting his own following and ended his life beseeching the Protestant princes to expel or put at hard labor all Talmudists, after burning synagogues and Talmuds first of all. Read his words ââ¬â if you can now find them other than here in any library!
There is only praise for the Medici Popes in Jewish literature and only disappointment about the condition of Jewry during the Reformation and afterwards, for the succeeding Popes drove the Talmudists out of Vatican circles and back into the ghetto.
Bewailing this, the Jewish Encyclopedia reports how the Talmud was burned by Pope Julius III in 1553 and Christians prohibited from printing it. "The worst was yet to come."
Paul IV (1555-1559) in his bull "Cum Nimis Absurdum" not only renewed all the canonical restrictions on Jews, but restricted their commercial activities and made them wear a yellow hat and live in their own territory ââ¬â the ghetto.
Concerning this period, the Jews and the Medici, Jewish historian Cecil Roth states in his Jews of Italy (Jewish Publication Society of America, 1946): [/COLOR]
[COLOR=Sienna]Girolamo Savonarola was successful ââ¬Â¦ in 1494 the great Dominican drove out the Medici ââ¬Â¦ Thereafter their position in the city (Florence) was a sort of barometer of its political state: when the Medici returned in 1512, they (the Jews) came too, and when the Medici were driven out in 1527 they accompanied them ââ¬Â¦ It was only when the ruling house was at last securely established, from 1530 onwards, that the interruptions end and the continuous history of Florentine Jewry begins. (Page 190) [/COLOR]
[COLOR=Blue]Also: [/COLOR] [COLOR=Sienna]
When Martin Luther nailed up his famous Theses on the cathedral door of Wittenberg, thereby setting the machinery of the Reformation in motion, the fate of the eager Jewries of Renaissance Italy were sealed. Threatened by this dangerous movement of secession, the Catholic Church began to set its house in order, more systematically and more comprehensively than ever before, in the process known as the Counter-Reformation. No longer were the Popes to be pre-eminently enlightened patrons of literature, science and the arts, with worldly inclinations and interests. Henceforth they were chosen among those in whose eyes the requirements of the Church, spiritual and temporal, were paramount ââ¬Â¦ who ââ¬Â¦ regarded the Jews as a leaven of disbelief which positively endangered Christianity and Christendom ââ¬â at least until they were segregated from intercourse with other men, as the Lateran Councils had prescribed three and a half centuries before. Whereas the Talmud had been printed under Leo X, a Medici, in 1553, the Pope denounced the Talmud, and the other restrictions were set up. ( History of the Jews of Italy, pages 190 and following)
ââ¬Â¦[/COLOR]
Bernard Lazare agrees with Dilling:
[url]http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/jewish/lazare-anti.html#Chapter%20Five[/url]
[COLOR=Red]ââ¬Â¦
ââ¬ÅWere they as happy in the Catholic countries? Yes, for there, too, they ceased to be the chief and sole enemies of the Church, and it was no longer they that were feared. The relaxation of religious ideas brought in Italy a rapprochement between a certain class of Jews and the various classes of society. First, the humanists, the poets, visited the Jewish scholars, philosophers and physicians. This familiarity had begun in the fourteenth century, when Dante was seen to have for his friend the Jew Manoello, the cousin of the philosopher Giuda Romano; it continued in the fifteenth and[78] the sixteenth centuries. Alemani was the teacher of Pico di Mirandola, Elias del Medigo publicly taught metaphysics in Padua and Florence, Leo the Hebrew published his platonic dialogues on love. The Jewish printers, like the scholar Soncino, were in constant touch with the literature of the period; his library was the centre of Hebrew publications, and he even rivaled Aldo by publishing Greek authors. Hercules Gonzago, bishop of Mantua and disciple of the Jew Pomponazzo of Bologna, accepted the dedication of Jacob Mantino, who had translated the Compendium of Averroes, while other princes encouraged Abraham de Balmes in his work of translation. 69 And not only the sceptical, even unbelieving faction, of the Hellenists and Latinists, worshipers of Zeus and Aphrodite more than of Jesus, were on good terms with the Jews, but the lord and the bourgeois were likewise. "There are," says the bishop Maiol, "persons, and often persons of quality, both men and women, who are so foolish and senseless as to take counsel with Jews over their most intimate affairs, to their own detriment. They (the Jews) are seen visiting the houses and palaces of the great ones, the dwellings of officers, councillors, secretaries, gentlemen, both in the city and country." People did not content themselves with receiving Jews, they went to their houses, and, what is more, attended their religious ceremonies. "There are among us," says again Maiol, "some who visit and superstitiously revere the synagogues"; and, addressing them, he exclaims: "You hear the Jews blow their trumpets on the days of their festivities, and you run with your families to look at them."
Thus it went on during the seventeenth century. In Ferrara they went to hear the sermons of Judah Azael, and, in 1676, Innocent XI threatened with excommunication and a fine of fifteen ducats those who frequented the synagogues. After the terrible shock which had just disturbed the Church, they more than ever wished to guarantee security to the Catholic dogma. Julius III had the Talmud burned in Rome and Venice upon denunciation by Solomon Romano, a converted Jew; Paul IV condemned it again at the request of another convert, Vittorio Eliano; Pius V and Clement VIII did likewise.
During the dogmatic and theological reaction which followed the Reformation, the Roman Church, friendly to the Jews heretofore, came to be the only government, almost the only power, systematically to persecute Judaism. Paul IV revived the ancient canonic laws and had the Marranos burned; Pius V banished the[79] Jews from his domains, except from Rome and Ancona, after having issued his Constitution against the Jews, while the Spaniards, as they penetrated further into Italy, were driving them from Naples, Genoa and Milan.ââ¬Â
ââ¬Â¦[/COLOR]
Petr
2004-09-14 23:46 | User Profile
Good article Petr. Too many Catholics around here I guess ([url=http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?p=90528#post90528]Dobbs on Immigration[/url]) though to get much of a discussion going on this.
2005-09-24 01:07 | User Profile
Ping!
I have recently learned that famous 15th-century Byzantine neo-pagan, [B]George Gemistos Plethon[/B], was tutored by a Jew named [B]Elissaeus[/B] (Elisha).
Elissaeus seems to have been Plethon's connection to anti-Christian Babylonian occultism, represented by these "Chaldaean Oracles", and Plethon himself in turn was foundational to the birth of pagan occultism of Italian Renaissance.
This Plethon guy is right up there in the neo-pagan pantheon with Julian the Apostate, who also incidentally got along well with Jews. Julian enthusiastically supported the rebuilding of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem (which is also what modern gentile Masonry promotes) as a snub against Christians.
[url]http://thewytchery-ivil.tripod.com/spiritsofnature/id56.html[/url] [COLOR=DarkRed] [FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=3] "[B]Gemistos Plethon[/B] was born in Constantinople sometime between 1355 and 1360, his father seems to have been chief secretary at the great church of Hagia Sophia, now an immense mosque in Sultanahmet, the old quarter of Istanbul. Some members of his family entered monastic service, one at Mount Athos, another perhaps at Chora. Gemistos himself had a singular distaste for monastic life, and in his later years in Italy and on the island of Mistra displayed a singular lack of interest in Christianity generally, quite in keeping with his adopted character as 'last of the Hellenes' and a living representative of the ancient Sun-cult. At Constantinople he would probably have entered a course of basic education at Hagia Sophia, perhaps under the general tutelage of the great Nikephoras Gregoras, or the eminent Demetrios Kydones. Gemistos Plethon is known to have excelled in the higher education provided, compiling text books for other students ranging from grammar to musical theory, and correcting numerous ancient manuscripts of the astronomical and geographical works of Claudius Ptolemy and of Strabo. Gemistos taught mathematical and literary subjects to many distinguished pupils, one of whom was later to become the immensely powerful Cardinal Bessarion.
[B]Whilst still at Constantinople Gemistos sought out a private tutor, the Hellenized Jewish scholar Elissaeus.[/B] Plethos' adversary, the Patriarch Gennadios, lists amongst Elissaeus' influences the writings of the Arab philosopher Averroes (Abu Walid ibn Rushid), the Neoplatonists Iamblichus and Proclus, and the Persian mage Zoroaster. Exactly who Elissaeus was is hard to define, we know that Jews held administrative and teaching posts throughout the Byzantine empire, indeed the traveller Benjamin of Tudela wrote that already by 1168 two and a half thousand Jewish merchants and silk-workers lived in a ghetto across the Golden Horn. Gemistos Plethon could certainly not read Arabic, there is much evidence to suggest that he read nor spoke any significant amount of Latin, and that Hebrew was also unknown to him, as by his time much of the preserved writings and commentaries on ancient philosophy were preserved in these languages and not in the original Greek, we can suppose that Plethon resorted to a Jewish teacher who could provide him with texts. [B] Elissaeus must have been an unusually gifted and learned man, not only is he credited with producing Greek translations of the Old Testament books (preserved now in the library of St. Marks in Venice ) which he gave to Pletho or to his pupil Bessarion, he also introduced Plethon to the magical and occult writings of his own heritage.[/B] [B]According to the Patriarch Gennadios "..this man (Elissaeus) also expounded to Gemistos the doctrines of Zoroaster and others. He was ostensibly a Jew, but in fact a pagan. Gemistos stayed with him for a long time, not only as his pupil but in his service, living at his expense, for he was one of the most influential men at the court.."[/B] Now we already know that the 'doctrines of Zoroaster' meant the Chaldaean Oracles to Gemistos Plethon, and that he is widely regarded as having himself invented this connection between the two; is it not equally possible, bearing in mind the statement of Gennadios, that the Jew Elissaeus impressed upon Plethos mind the Magian, or Zoroastrian origin of these verses, and that such an orientalizing view of them would be in keeping with a Jewish scholar? Certainly, Plethons selection of verses from the Chaldaean Oracles is briefer than that of the eleventh century occultist Michael Psellus, whose handwritten manuscripts remained in Plethons possession for most of his life, supplied either by Elissaeus, by his old tutor Nikephoras Gregoras who also showed an interest in the Oracles, or bought by Gemistos from one of the numerous dealers in manuscripts working in Constantinople.
...
Although the charge of practising occult arts was never formally levelled against Gemistos Plethon, he certainly practised astrology and cannot have been unaware of the magical nature of his own studies. Gemistos had many enemies in the church, not least the Patriarch Gennadios, and [B]it is perhaps the fate of his personal tutor Elissaeus (burnt to death in his own dwelling, a judicial execution for religious dissent) which forced Gemistos to maintain such reserve about his own beliefs and practises[/B].
[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
2005-09-24 01:16 | User Profile
Michael A. Hoffman describes here (in his rebuttal to "Catholic" occult-pusher Charles Coulombe) the impact of pagan occultism in Italian Renaissance, which had largely been inspired by Gemistos Plethon - Pico (della Mirandola), whom Hoffman mentions below, was very much a follower of Plethon.
This Italian occultism in its turn very much laid out the spiritual groundwork for the rise of [B]Freemasonry[/B], which is the ultimate representative of [B]the Judeo-Pagan synthesis[/B].
[COLOR=Indigo] [url]http://www.christorchaos.com/Emptyworks.html[/url][FONT=Times New Roman] [SIZE=5]
Michael A. Hoffman II Replies to Charles Coulombe [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]March 15, 2004
"Hoffman's Preface: I published an expose in the 1990s of Charles Coulombe's writings and I have not chosen to revisit the subject in print until now, for reasons stated below. I pen the following rejoinder in the expectation that I will not have to do so again in the future. Outside of traditional Catholic and Wiccan circles, Mr. Coulombe is a non-entity. Surely there are competent Catholic researchers who can follow up on Coulombe's adulatory references to Hermeticism, magic, Pico and Reuchlin, trace them to their Satanic radix and unmask Coulombe and his preposterous pose as an orthodox follower of Jesus Christ.
"I begin with a response which Mr. Coulombe gave to a question asked at this webpage: [url]http://www.christorchaos.com/CoulombeQuestions.html[/url], in an article entitled, 'A Question and Answer Session Between Thomas A. Droleskey and Charles Coulombe, March 11, 2004.'
"I encourage all interested parties to read the material posted on that page in its entirety. I have excerpted for purposes of rejoinder, three paragraphs from that exchange, as follows:
Charles Coulombe:
[I]"Of course, Gnosis began to be attacked for Catholic proselytising. In 1993, one Michael Hoffman II, enraged by supposed 'unpatriotic sentiments' in an article I wrote for the Angelus, went on a campaign to 'reveal' my past as a writer of 'occult aricles for Satanic magazines' or whatever, which has continued until to-day. This has been most annoying. But since I know of at least one conversion due to my 'Gnosis' writings, I consider the annoyance worth it."[/I]
"Hoffman Replies: Charles Coulombe reminds me of Lillian Hellman, about whom Mary McCarthy famously stated, "Everything she says is a lie including 'and' and 'the."
"Mr. Coulombe pretends that I had an ulterior motive in exposing his outrageous appeal for "baptizing Hermeticism" which he made in the pages of "Gnosis" magazine. In point of fact, Rev. Fr. Christopher Hunter of the SSPX, (acting in a private and not an official capacity), asked this writer to critique an article Mr. Coulombe had written in The Angelus on American conservatism, which was riddled with errors.
"It was only after I wrote that critique, that other writings by Coulombe came to my attention. Mr. Coulombe has always insisted on some kind of omniscience in this regard, attempting to win sympathy among Catholics critical of the Founding Fathers by retailing the lie that I exposed his occult involvement mainly because of his stand on America and patrotism, the supposition being that his occultism alone would not have piqued my interest or outrage. This is the sort of boldfaced lie that an unscrupulous occultist would circulate. Mr. Coulombe has no evidence for his lie, he simply parrots it for cheap advantage.
"Coulombe says that my 'campaign' concerning his writings has continued to this day, which is another lie. I have not published anything with regard to him in several years. His writings, speeches and pose as a traditional Catholic are tedious and transparent and do not engage me at any level. March 15, 2004 is the first time I have written anything for publication concerning Mr. Coulombe in many years, and I do so now only because he has chosen to drag my name into the long overdue investigation of his subversion and infiltration.
"I will furnish but one brief example of what an outrageous deceiver this fellow is, and the extent to which his deceit depends on the credulity and ignorance of his audience.
"Dr. Tom Droleskey asked Coulombe, 'Why would it be unfair to conclude from the evidence provided in your writings that you are attempting to engage in a syncretist effort to find a bridge between the aforementioned philosophies and occult practices and the Catholic Faith?'
"Coulombe responded: [I]
'Because it would imply that the Jesuits were trying to merge Confucianism or Hinduism and the Faith with the Chinese and Malabar Rites (which canard was condemned by Pius XII); that the use of pre-Christian religious customs in Catholic liturgy or para-liturgical customs is a sign of Catholic-Pagan syncretism, as some Protestants allege; or that the study of the Kabbalah by Bl. Raymond Lully, Pico della Mirandola, or Reuchlin was an attenpt to do the same with Judaism; or that your use of the Christmas Tree is really Thor worship. If you want to evangelise people, you must use words, ideas, and actions that they will understand. To the uninformed, this may well appear like syncretism --- and indeed, mistakes in this realm are sometimes made, as history tells us. But mistakes from an excess of zeal are far better than a cold-hearted smugness, which does not think the souls of the heathen worth either the risk of failure or, worse still, the mere effort.' [/I]
(End quote)
[B]"I must be one of the 'uninformed' because I happen to know that Pico della Mirandola and (Johannes) Reuchlin were not merely 'students' of the Kabbalah as Coulombe claims, but occult propagandists for Judaism who were attempting to "baptize" the Satanic Kabbalah within Catholicism.
"The fact that even at this late date Mr. Coulombe is still peddling an apologia for the putrid agents of Kabbalistic Judaism is further evidence of the extent of his corruption. I own a facsimile edition of the original printing of Reuchlin's [I]De Arte Cabalistica[/I] which is replete with praise for the Kabbalah. In Book One, Reuchlin rhapsodizes that the knowledge contained in the Kabbalah 'is nobler than logic or reason itself. Reuchlin also repeatedly quotes the Talmud approvingly in support of the Kabbalah.
"Both Pico della Mirandola and Reuchlin put forth the blasphemous proposition that the Kabbalah is the repository of the oldest and most sacred truths of Christianity. Pico's famed "theses" included the declaration that the Kabbalah (and magic) constitute the best proof of the veracity of the Gospel of Jesus Christ! These are Coulombe's exemplars of the Catholic missionary spirit.
"The purpose of this disgusting propaganda on the part of Reuchlin and Pico was to generate awe and veneration for the rabbis. They succeeded in this endeavor and the western secret societies, from Rosicrucianism to Freemasonry, arose from this induced respect for the Kabbalah and its 'learned' rabbinic proponents, who in turn were then able to transmit to the awed elite of Christendom, the secrets of the Egyptian and Babylonian sorcery and superstition that form the basis of both the Kabbalah and the Talmud.[/B]
"Mr. Coulombe can perpetrate his fraud on only one of two grounds: 1. He himself is abysmally ignorant of the provenance of the western secret societies and therefore is in no position to write or lecture on these topics to anyone; or 2. he has such a low opinion of the intelligence of his interlocutors that he brazenly defends the Kabbalistic fifth-columnists in the expectation that traditional Catholics are so completely ignorant of the history of the era that they will fail to discover the imposture."
"How much more really needs to be said? Coulombe has been pimping for Reuchlin and Pico in print since the early 1990s and he does so even now, in the course of answering questions from traditional Catholics concerning the extent of his heteordoxy.
[B]"Mr. Coulombe is a loyal disciple of the Renaissance Satanists who launched the first large-scale intellectual subversion of the Catholic Church. That he continues to maintain a facade of traditional Catholicism while daring to uphold wicked Judaizers like Reuchlin and Pico as worthy examples of Catholic 'evangelists,' whose only error was 'an excess of zeal' is so brazen it smacks of chutzpagh.[/B]
"Coulombe seems to be having a Hell-Fire Club jest at the expense of the cowans. How does this fellow retain even a shred of credibility in traditional Catholic circles?
Sincerely, Michael A. Hoffman II" [/SIZE]
[/FONT][/COLOR]
2005-09-24 02:02 | User Profile
Israel Shahak also records how cozy place Renaissance Rome was for Talmudists:
[url]http://www.abbc2.com/islam/english/books/jewhis/jewhis2.htm[/url]
[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3][COLOR=Blue] "What was the Jewish - or rather the rabbinical - response? The simplest one was the ancient weapon of bribery and string-pulling. In most European countries, during most of the time, anything could be fixed by a bribe. [B]Nowhere was this maxim more true than in the Rome of the Renaissance popes. [I]The Edigio Princeps[/I] of the complete Code of Talmudic Law, Maimonides' [I]Mishneh Torah[/I] - replete not only with the most offensive precepts against all Gentiles but also with explicit attacks on Christianity and on Jesus (after whose name the author adds piously, '[I]May the name of the wicked perish[/I]') - was published unexpurgated in Rome in the year 1480 under Sixtus IV, politically a very active pope who had a constant and urgent need for money.[/B] (A few years earlier, the only older edition of [I]The Golden Ass[/I] by Apulcius from which the violent attack on Christianity had not been removed was also published in Rome.) [B]Alexander VI Borgin was also very liberal in this respect.[/B]"[/COLOR] [/SIZE][/FONT]
2005-09-24 03:20 | User Profile
Bernard Lazare has more information on the connection between Jews and European paganism (though he is not always an entirely reliable source):
[url]http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/jewish/lazare-anti.html#Chapter%20Five[/url][COLOR=Purple] [FONT=Book Antiqua]
[SIZE=3]"The Jews did not stop there. They preached the materialism of the Arabian philosophers which was to prove so destructive to the Christian faith, and carried abroad the spirit of skepticism. [B]Their activity was such as to give rise to a general belief in the existence of a secret society sworn to the destruction of Christianity. 227 [/B]During the thirteenth century, a century which witnessed the rapid development of that complex of humanism, skepticism and paganism which we call the Renaissance, at a time when the Hohenstaufen defended the cause of science against dogma, and showed themselves the protectors of Epicureanism, the Jews occupied the first place among scholars and rationalist philosophers. [B]At the Court of the Emperor Frederick II, "that hotbed of irreligion," they were received with favour and respect. It was they, as Renan has shown, 228 that created Averroism; it was they who established the[151] fame of that Ibn-Roshd, that Averroes whose influence was destined to become so great.[/B] Without doubt they had their share, too, in the dissemination of the "blasphemies" of the impious Arabians; blasphemies which an Emperor, fond of science and of philosophy, encouraged. These find their type in the so-called "Blasphemy of the Three Impostors," Moses, Jesus and Mohammed, invented by the theologians, and their spirit is tersely summed up in the saying of the Arabian [I]soufis[/I], "What care I for the Kaaba of the Mohammedan, the synagogue of the Jew, or the convent of the Christian !" [B]Truly has Darmesteter written: "The Jew was the apostle of unbelief, and every revolt of the mind originated with him, whether secretly or in the open. In that immense foundry of blasphemy maintained by the Emperor Frederick and the princes of Suabia and Aragon, he acted a busy part." 229[/B]
"Another thing also is worthy of notice. [B]If the Jews as followers of Averroes, or as unbelievers, skeptics and blasphemers, sapped the foundations of Christianity in spreading the doctrines of materialism and rationalism, they were also the creators of that other enemy of Catholic dogma, pantheism.[/B] In fact the [I]Fons Vitae[/I] of Avicebron was the well at which numerous heretics drank. It is even quite possible that David de Dinant and Amaury de Chartres, were influenced by the[I] Fons Vitae [/I]which they knew in a Latin translation made in the twelfth century by the archdeacon Dominique Gundissalinus. [B]It is certain that Giordano Bruno borrowed from the [I]Fons Vitae[/I], whence his pantheism came in part. 230[/B]
...
227 Cf. the poetic account of the Descent of St. Paul into Hell, cited by Ernest Renan in his [I]Averroes et l'Averroisme[/I], p. 284.
228 E. Renan, loc. cit.
229 James Darmesteter, [I]Coup d'oeil sur l'histoire du peuple juif[/I], Paris, 1881.
230 p. 582. [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[B] Amaury de Chartres[/B], or Amalric of Bene, mentioned above, was perhaps the main founder of an antinomian pantheistic sect, "[B]The Brethren of the Free Spirit[/B]," that I have dealt more with in here:
[url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18146&highlight=kanler[/url]
(Here is a direct connection to the Kabbalistic concept of "divine man," [B]Adam Kadmon[/B])
[FONT=Garamond][SIZE=3][COLOR=Red]"[B]In the center of the sect's ideology stood not God but man made divine, freed from the notion of his own sinfulness and made the center of the universe.[/B] As a result, Adam played a central role in their teaching, not Adam the sinner depicted in the Old Testament, but [U]Adam the perfect man[/U]. Many of the Free Spirits referred to themselves as the "New Adams," and Konrad Kanler even called himself Antichrist ("but not in the bad sense"). [B]It seems possible to argue that here, within the confines of this relatively small sect, we encounter the first prototype of the humanist ideology which would later attain worldwide significance[/B]."[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[url]http://robertlstephens.com/essays/essay_frame.php?essayroot=shafarevich/&essayfile=001SocialistPhenomenon.html#pagestart_18[/url]
More info on these psychos can be found here:
[url]http://www.dhushara.com/book/consum/free.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.dhushara.com/book/consum/gnos/lerner.htm[/url]
Petr
2005-09-24 13:12 | User Profile
Should someone suspect that this idea of Kabbalah promoting doctrines of pantheism and atheism is somehow "far out", I hereby present an excerpt from a very mainstream scholarly book, [B][I]The Pimlico History of Western Philosophy[/I] (Columbia University Press 1998).[/B]
On p. 381, in a chapter on [B]Baruch Spinoza[/B] (by Richard H. Popkin) :
[COLOR=Magenta] [FONT=Trebuchet MS][SIZE=3]"About thirty years after Spinoza's death, the first modern author of a history of the Jews, the Huguenot Jacques Basnage, looked for people who had known Spinoza. He asked the chief rabbi about him. (The current chief rabbi was actually the person who had read out the excommunication order against Spinoza).[B] [U]Basnage was told by the rabbi that there was nothing original in Spinoza's work, that it was just the view of the Jewish kabbalists, disguised in Cartesian terms[/U]. The rabbi, a student of Abraham Cohen Herrera, may well have recognized his teacher's Neoplatonism pervading Spinoza's metaphysics. /B Basnage placed his account of Spinoza's system in his central chapter on the kabbalists. [B]Part of Spinoza's genius may have been to turn the pantheistic elements of kabbalism into a thoroughgoing naturalistic picture of the world, a metaphysics for a world without any supernatural deity.[/B] Harry Wolfson claimed Spinoza transformed medieval Jewish philosophical views into a modern system, using ideas from Moses Maimonides, Hasdai ibn Crescas, and Herrera, among others. [B]Pierre Bayle said Spinoza was the first to reduce atheism to a system. [/B]The German Romantics called him "a God intoxicated man." [B]Wolfson said he was the last of the medievals and the first of the moderns, the first who needed no supernatural doctrines in his philosophy.[/B]"[/SIZE] [/FONT][/COLOR]
As a way of comparison, René Descartes had still very much needed faith in God to support the idea of world existing outside his own head and against the possibility of "demon-deceiver."
Petr
2005-09-24 16:07 | User Profile
Your countryman Alexander Dugin can probably fill in a few more details for you. Hint: what side of Italian politics were the Florentines on vis-a-vis Venice.
You will find much of interest here: [url]http://www.friesian.com/[/url], Specifically [url]http://www.friesian.com/romania.htm[/url], and [url]http://www.friesian.com/hist-1.htm#rebirth[/url] .
In England, the Florentine Neo-Platonists heavily influence the English Re-Nascence, specifically the school of St. Paul's, and the persons who accompanied Queen Elizabeth in her exile to the Netherlands--a few hundred at most. Naturally, after her return, they formed the core of high level political positions. The occult stuff became more or less endemic among the lawyer class and coalesced around Hermeticism--think the alchemical writings of Sir Francis Bacon (New Atlantis, the Sylva), Sir Thomas Browne (Religio Medici), Sir Isaac Newton....
The mainline connection is Mirandola and Bruno down to John Colet, headmaster of St. Paul's, on to the Cambridge Platonists and the Newtonians (Arians at first, later rather suspiciously Unitarians).
In other words, this is mainstream historical stuff--nothing hidden or secret about it. You certainly can't understand English or early American history without knowing all about it. For the most part, academic historians do--it just doesn't get much play in the mainstream press. In Academia, they don't think of it as "us" because they treat their subject at a distance, and if they are not knee deep in the occult/hermetic/unitarian stuff themselves then they believe in some sort of progress or revolution that made all that superstitious stuff go away--certainly happened that way among the British Imperial leaders. Yep. Wink-wink. No political alchemy to protect the white race's dominant Atlantean position of Water vs. Elemental Fire any more. Nosiree. Our Dear Leaders gave that Celtic skull-cult, Chaldean, and Ismaili nonsense up long ago. Yep.
2005-09-24 16:24 | User Profile
Two more links for Petr:
Discussion of Hermeticism from Orthodox perspective:
[url]http://digilander.libero.it/benparker/HESYCHASM/Hesychasm22.htm[/url]
Note: this article may offend some Roman Catholics. Mether refers to the Catholic Church as the RCRO ("Roman Catholic Religious Organization"). Dissent, if not all that original.
2005-09-24 16:46 | User Profile
Thanks for the links Macrobius, but Alexander Dugin is not my "countryman" - I'm Finnish (and "Petr" isn't my real name).
Petr
2005-09-24 17:19 | User Profile
That's OK. I'm not really Roman myself.
2005-10-30 18:07 | User Profile
Ping!
Guess on what issue do both Talmudic Jews and secularism-pushing humanistic Freemasons agree upon?
Let Gary North explain:
(From his online book [I]Conspiracy in Philadelphia[/I], pp. 271-4:
[url]http://www.demischools.org/philadelphia.pdf[/url]
/////////////////////////////////////////////
ââ¬Â¦ [SIZE="3"][FONT="Times New Roman"] Mathematics is a universal language, just as Latin was among educated men until the 1880ââ¬â¢s, when Harvard University began its pace-setting curriculum revision. (There are two other such languages: music and international money.) [B]It was this quest for universal laws of nature and society that undergirded speculative Freemasonry. This quest included universal moral law.[/B] In the second edition of Andersonââ¬â¢s [I]Constitutions /I, we read: ââ¬ÅA Mason is obliged by his tenure to observe the moral law as a true Noachida.ââ¬Â This word [I]Noachida [/I]did not appear in the first edition. [B]In the[I] Ahiman Rezon[/I], which follows Andersonââ¬â¢s lead word for word, though not comma for comma, we read: ââ¬ÅA Mason is also obliged, by his tenure, to observe the moral law, as a true [I]Noachide[/I].ââ¬Â112 In a note to this peculiar word, we read: ââ¬ÅSons of Noah; the first name for Free-Masons.ââ¬Â[/B] The contributor in the [I]Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry[/I] says that Anderson was not the inventor of the term; it first appeared, he says, in a letter sent by the Grand Lodge of England to the Grand Lodge of Calcutta in 1735. 113 One 1877 example of the word appears in the [I]Oxford English Dictionary[/I], but only as an adjective, not a noun.
[B]A Noachide is a son of Noah who possesses the knowledge of geometry and also a common morality. Just as the Bible is not needed in order to grasp the logical principles of geometry, so is it not needed to grasp the principles of morality.[/B]
This originally Masonic word [I]Noachite[/I] was used by the translator of the medieval Jewish commentator, Rabbi Moses ben Maimon (ââ¬ÅRambamââ¬Â or ââ¬ÅMaimonidesââ¬Â), to describe the gentile sons of Noah. [B][U]The Talmudââ¬â¢s concept of the sons of Noah is even more hostile than Masonry to the idea of the need for biblical revelation as the basis of civil law[/U]. The gentile [I]Noahide[/I], according to at least some of the rabbis and Maimonides, is not supposed to study the Old Testament, especially Old Testament law.[/B] If he does, he is deserving of death. [I] [B]A heathen who busies himself with the study of the Law deserves death. He should occupy himself with the (study) of the seven commandments only[/B]. So too, a heathen who keeps a day of rest, even if it be on a weekday, if he has set it apart as his Sabbath, is deserving of death. It is needless to state that he merits death if he makes a new festival for himself. The general principle is: none is permitted to introduce innovations into religion or devise new commandments. The heathen has the choice between becoming a true proselyte by accepting all the commandments, and adhering to his own religion, neither adding to it nor subtracting anything from it. If therefore he occupies himself with the study of the Law, or observes a day of rest, or makes any innovation, he is flogged, or otherwise punished and advised that he is deserving of death, but he is not put to death[/I].114
[B]Sufficient social order within the gentile world is supposedly achieved through their adherence to the seven commandments specifically given to the heathen, meaning gentiles. [/B]Six of these laws were first given to Adam, according to Jewish law: the prohibitions against idolatry, blasphemy, murder, adultery, and robbery, plus the command to establish courts of justice. A seventh law was also supposedly given to Noah: the prohibition against eating the limb of a living animal.115 [B]Beyond this minimal list of seven laws, the gentiles ââ¬â ââ¬ÅNoahidesââ¬Â or ââ¬ÅNoahites,ââ¬Â the descendants of Noah 116 ââ¬â are not supposed to go in their inquiry into the ethical requirements of Old Testament law, which belongs exclusively to the Jews.[/B] In making this assertion, Maimonides was faithfully following the teaching of the Talmud. He was taking the rabbis at their word: [B]ââ¬ÅR. [Rabbi ââ¬â G.N.] Johanan said: A heathen who studies the Torah deserves death, for it is written, [I]Moses commanded us a law for an inheritance[/I]; it is [I]our [/I]inheritance, not theirs.ââ¬Â[/B]117 Resh Lakish (third century, A.D.) said that a gentile who observes the Sabbath deserves death.118
[U][B]The ethical goal of both Masonry and Talmudic Judaism is the same: to keep gentiles from reading and applying Old Testament law in society.[/B][/U] (The traditions and legends are also similar, according to at least one favorable student of Masonry.)119 [B]Masonry defends a common-ground, non-revelational morality for all members. In this, it agrees entirely with rabbinic Judaism regarding gentiles.[/B]120 What is remarkable is that this same idea of a common morality since Noah has been adopted by both modern Reformed theology and modern dispensationalism.121 [B] This leaves Christians at the mercy of the wisdom of fallen man. By default, it puts the covenant-breaker in charge of society. [/B]It implicitly denies that God brings His sanctions in history in terms of His Bible-revealed law. This brings us to point four of the covenant model: oath/sanctions.[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT="Arial"] 112. [I]Ahiman Rezon[/I], p. 14.
Albert G. Mackey, William J. Hughan, and Edward L. Hawkins (eds.), [I]An Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry and Its Kindred Sciences[/I], 2 vols. rev. ed. (New York: Masonic History Company, 1925), II, p. 514: ââ¬ÅNoahidae.ââ¬Â
Moses Maimonides, [I]The Book of Judges[/I], Book 14 of [I]The Code of Maimonides[/I], 14 vols. (New Haven, Connecticut: Yale University Press, [1180] 1949), ââ¬ÅLaws Concerning Kings and Wars,ââ¬Â X:9, p. 237.
[I]Ibid[/I]., IX:1, pp. 230ââ¬â31.
116.[I] Ibid[/I]., IX:2, p. 231.
Babylonian Talmud, [I]Sanhedrin[/I] 59a. I use the Soncino Press edition.
[I]Sanhedrin[/I] 59b.
E. Cecil McGavin,[I] Mormonism and Masonry[/I] (Salt Lake City: Bookcrafter Publishers, 1956), p. 195: ââ¬ÅThe Jewish Talmud furnishes many illustrations of the Masonic system. Many of the traditions and legends, especially of the higher degrees, are either found in or are corroborated by the Talmud.ââ¬Â The author, who was a Mormon, connected Mormonism and Masonry, but was not hostile to Masonry.
Gary North, [I]The Judeo-Christian Tradition: A Guide for the Perplexed /I, ch. 5.
John Murray, [I]Principles of Conduct: Aspects of Biblical Ethics[/I] (Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1957), pp. 118ââ¬â19; H. Wayne House and Thomas Ice, [I]Dominion Theology: Curse or Blessing?[/I] (Portland, Oregon: Multnomah, 1988), p. 130.[/FONT]
//////////////////////////////////////////
Now you can see how Talmudic Jews are, paradoxically, fiercely [I]against [/I]theocracy - when it's practised by [U]Gentiles[/U]. In their own Noahide model, it's[B] them[/B] who are supposed to be in charge, not Christians.
This also helps to understand the Jewish opposition to Christian activists like Roy Moore, even and [U]especially[/U] if their actions would promote the Old Testament Law...
Petr
2005-10-30 18:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]Thanks for the links Macrobius, but Alexander Dugin is not my "countryman" - I'm Finnish (and "Petr" isn't my real name).
Petr[/QUOTE]
I'm not a turtle but I like the sound of rain on a roof.
2005-10-31 19:38 | User Profile
Yes the connection between Judaism and paganism is something Ive long commented on. Petr may remember how at Phora I posted information about how pagan society in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD were actually going through a "craze for Judaism" where there were so many gentile visitors to synagouges that special quarters had to be built to house them during religious services.
It was only the staunch monotheism of the Jews that actually prevented the pagans from incorporating its God into their pantheon.
Then the book A History of Pagan Europe mentions that neo-paganism was heavily influenced by the occult practices of gypsies.
Neo-pagans basically just like to project their own stereotypes onto the past, about how their proud pagan ancestors rejected the "foreign Jewish deity" of Christianity. Nothing is further from the truth.
2005-11-01 00:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hilaire Belloc]Neo-pagans basically just like to project their own stereotypes onto the past, about how their proud pagan ancestors rejected the "foreign Jewish deity" of Christianity. Nothing is further from the truth.[/QUOTE]
Another example of this would be the Persian Empire during a pre-Islamic Sassanian dynasty (226 AD - 640 AD).
Their "Indo-Europeanism" (to use that abstract expression popularized by "New Right") didn't seem to protect them from close relations with Jews or other Semites for that matter - Mesopotamians had a monopoly in the bureaucracy of the Achaemenian Persian empire, and Sassanians were still using Aramaic alphabets in writing down the holy books of Zoroastrianism: [B] [COLOR="Purple"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Times New Roman"]"During the Sasanian time, the phonetic Avestan alphabet was developed based on the Middle Persian Aramaic, in order to preserve the ancient Zoroastrian scriptures." [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
[url]http://iranianlanguages.com/midiranian/midpersian.htm[/url]
One of the most famous Sassanian kings, Bahram Gur, was born to the Jewish wife of Shah Yezdegerd I:
[COLOR="Blue"][FONT="Garamond"][SIZE="3"]"[B]Bahram Gur (ruled 420-438 AD), son of Yazdegard I, and a Jewish princess, Shoshandokht[/B], won his throne through an ordeal of killing two lions with a single spear. A famous warrior, his reign became legendary through his battles and hunting prowess. He raised the status of musicians in the Sasanian court. The depiction of Bahram at the hunt is one of the most wide spread images in Persian art adorning Sasanian silver work, miniatures from precious manuscripts from the post-Sasanian ["Islamic"] period, tiles, metalwork, and tapestries."[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[url]http://www.payvand.com/news/03/oct/1097.html[/url]
Just take the word of these [B]JEWS FOR SHAH[/B]!
[COLOR="DarkRed"][FONT="Arial"]"Later, during the centuries of rivalry and warfare between the Roman and Persian empires, the Jews even beyond the Persian boundaries seem to have favored and allied themselves with the Persians. The Sassanian capital, Ctesiphon, just south of today's Baghdad, was the center of Jewish religious learning in Iran. "[/FONT][/COLOR]
[url]http://www.jewsforshah.com/[/url]
[I]Indeed[/I]. In 614 AD, Jews acted as military allies of Persians when they conquered Palestine from Byzantines and eagerly participated in the mass murder of up to 90,000 Christians in Jerusalem:
[url]http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/strategos1.html[/url]
Petr
2005-11-01 00:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hilaire Belloc]Then the book A History of Pagan Europe mentions that neo-paganism was heavily influenced by the occult practices of gypsies.[/QUOTE]
Makes sense, Gypsies too are Indo-Europeans after all... :rolleyes:
Do you have any excerpts or links available on this issue?
Petr
2005-11-01 01:53 | User Profile
Pre-Christian Armenia and Caucasus were also full of Jews:
...
[SIZE="3"][FONT="Garamond"][COLOR="Navy"][B]During his expedition to Palestine, to take vengeance on Queen Cleopatra of Egypt, Tigranes took a great number of Jews captive. He settled them in Armavir and in the city of Vardges, on the river Ksakh, which subsequently became a large commercial center. [/B]King Arsham, the brother of Tigranes, imprisoned the coronator Hanania, and deprived him of all honors, because he liberated from bondage the Jewish high priest Hyrcanus. Josephus relates that Cleopatra took part in Antony's expedition to Armenia, when Antony subdued Armenia and "sent Artabazes, the son of Tigranes, in bonds, with his children and procurators, to Egypt" ("Ant." xv. 4, ç 3). He also states that the Herodian house was related to the royal house of Armenia ("Ant." xviii. 5, ç 4; ib. xiii. 16, ç 4).
Many captive Jews were removed by Arsaces (85-127 of the common era) from the city of Ernanda and settled by him in the capital of Artashat. [B]According to tradition, the family of Amatuni, which was of Jewish origin, came from Oriental Aryan countries to Armenia in the reign of Arsaces.[/B]
[I][B]Carried Away by Persians.[/B][/I]
At the end of the reign of Arshak, during his iniquitous persecution, the Persian king Sapor II. (about 360) ordered the destruction of the fortifications surrounding all the Armenian cities, and also commanded that all the Jews and Judaizers of the city of Van, who had been transferred to that city during the reign of Tigranes, should be taken into captivity and settled in Aspahan.
[B]Faustus, the Byzantine (4th century), in describing the invasion of the Persians in the time of King Sapor II. (310-380), relates that the Persians removed from the city of Artashat 40,000 Armenian and 9,000 Jewish families; from Ernandashat 20,000 Armenian and 30,000 Jewish; from Zeragavan 5,000 Armenian and 8,000 Jewish; from Zarishat 14,000 Armenian and 10,000 Jewish; from Van 5,000 Armenian and 18,000 Jewish; and from Nakhichevan 2,000 Armenian and 16,000 Jewish families (360-370). This great mass of Jews, according to Faustus, had originally been transported from Palestine by King Tigranes Arshakuni. [/B]
While these figures may be exaggerated, there can be hardly any doubt that Armenia at that time possessed a large Jewish population (see Ersch and Gruber, "Encyklopädie," xxvii. 440 et seq.; Grätz, "Gesch. der Juden," iv. 422; Jost, "Gesch. der Israel.," ii. 128, Leipsic, 1858; Harkavy, "Vyestnik Russkikh Yevreyev,"1871; "Razsvyet," 1882-83; F. Lazarus, in Brüll's "Jahrbuch," x. 34, 35).[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
...
[url]http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=1787&letter=A&search=armenia[/url]
Petr
2005-11-01 03:55 | User Profile
when talking about Persia, you should also recall that the Mandaeans (Gnostics?) were there for a quite a while, with connections to "Twelver" or Ismaili Mohammedanism, as in the Aga Khan, and in Mesopotamia the "swamp arabs". I have always found it curious that American foreign policy is so keen on the exact places minorities with those religions still live. Didn't the Prince of Wales champion the swamp arabs in a big way a while back?
2005-11-01 17:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]Makes sense, Gypsies too are Indo-Europeans after all... :rolleyes:
I find this whole "Indo-Europeanism" nonsense tiresome really. I remember me and my friend almost getting mugged by a bunch of gypsies a few years ago.
Do you have any excerpts or links available on this issue?
No, but I'm sure you can find something on the net. Either that or pick up a copy of A History of Pagan Europe, but I have to warn you much of it is psuedo-historical nonsense. I just found it interesting how they mentioned how gypsies were influential in reviving interest in the occult and such.
2005-11-01 17:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]Pre-Christian Armenia and Caucasus were also full of Jews: [/QUOTE]
Speaking of Armenia, it's interesting the important role Christianity had in forging their national consciousness during the Medieval period, so much that even modern anti-clerical nationalists paid homage to its legacy.
2005-11-02 03:33 | User Profile
And then there were Vikings. One of their main sources of income in the raiding period was selling Slavic slaves "down the river" to south - mostly to Arabs and very often with the mediation the Jewish slave merchants in Khazaria!
[SIZE="3"][FONT="Times New Roman"][COLOR="Blue"] "Slave catching and slave trade was one of the main occupations of the Vikings. Swedish Vikings, the Varangians or Rus, established strongholds and founded the first Russian state, Kievan Rus' during their trade and Slave catching operations. [B]The Arab traveller Ibn Rustah recounts how they terrorized the Slavs and treated them like cattle. This trade was part of making the ethnic label Slav the name for "slave"[/B].
[I] "As for the Rus [Swedes], they live on an island ââ¬Â¦ that takes three days to walk round and is covered with thick undergrowth and forests; ââ¬Â¦ [B]They harry the Slavs, using ships to reach them; they carry them off as slaves and ââ¬Â¦ sell them. They have no fields but simply live on what they get from the Slav's lands [/B]ââ¬Â¦ When a son is born, the father will go up to the newborn baby, sword in hand; throwing it down, he says, 'I shall not leave you with any property: You have only what you can provide with this weapon.'" (1) [/I][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[url]http://www.mistyped.info/slave.htm[/url]
Petr
2005-11-02 17:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]And then there were Vikings. One of their main sources of income in the raiding period was selling Slavic slaves "down the river" to south - mostly to Arabs and very often with the mediation the Jewish slave merchants in Khazaria![/QUOTE]
Yes Im all too aware of this fact. Although your source is wrong about the Rus being Vikings and they did not found Kievan Rus(the so-called Normanist theory that has been refuted plenty of times by Russian and Ukrainian historians). Plus Slav did not dervive necessarily from "slave".
Anyways, there was also considerable Arab influence among the pagan Rus, which came to an abrupt end when Prince Volodymyr converted to Christianity; which had the effect of aligning itself more with the Christian nations of Europe.
2005-11-02 19:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hilaire Belloc]Anyways, there was also considerable Arab influence among the pagan Rus, which came to an abrupt end when Prince Volodymyr converted to Christianity;[/QUOTE]
Do you know any good books or other sources on this issue?
Petr
2005-11-02 19:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]Do you know any good books or other sources on this issue?
Petr[/QUOTE]
A History of Ukraine - Mikhailo Hrushevsky[not to be confused with his 10-volume work, which most likely contains much more information].
Ukraine: A History by Orest Subtelny[which argues that if it weren't for Volodymyr's conversion, the Rus probably wouldve became Muslim).
2005-11-04 08:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hilaire Belloc]Ukraine: A History by Orest Subtelny[which argues that if it weren't for Volodymyr's conversion, the Rus probably wouldve became Muslim).[/QUOTE]
That is quite probable.
Actually there's another country that is directly comparable to Russia/Ukraine in this regard, namely [B]Philippines[/B]. It is widely estimated that if Spanish conquistadors had arrived to Far East hundred years later than they did, Philippines today would be an Islamic country just like their Indonesian neighbors.
Petr
2005-11-04 10:06 | User Profile
Pre-Christian Romania:
[COLOR="Purple"][FONT="Times New Roman"][SIZE="4"] Invasion of the Chazars.[/SIZE]
[SIZE="3"]Kingdom of southern Europe. [B]If the assertions of Rumanian historians are to be accepted, Jews lived in Rumania for a considerable time before the advent of the hordes of Roman convicts brought by Emperor Trajan for the purpose of populating the fertile country of the Dacians, which he had desolated after his bloody conquest. Decebalus, King of the Dacians, accorded to the Jews of Talmaci special privileges which they did not enjoy in other places of Dacia, although they had the right of residence everywhere. [/B]A decree of the Roman emperor (397) granted protection to the Dacian Jews and their synagogues ("Cod. Theod. de Jud." xvi. 8). At the Roman invasion Jews followed the army of occupation as purveyors and interpreters. [B]In the eighth century it is said that an armed force of Jews from southern Russia, presumably the Chazars, entered both Moldavia and Wallachia and united with the Jews who were already living there; and "for a number of years the Jewish religion reigned supreme in the country."[/B][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[url]http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=475&letter=R&search=rumania[/url]
This is a good example on how Roman Empire had no "European" identity: emperor Trajan did not hesitate to re-populate conquered Dacia with settlers of Syrian or Jewish origin.
Petr
2005-11-06 19:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hilaire Belloc]I find this whole "Indo-Europeanism" nonsense tiresome really. I remember me and my friend almost getting mugged by a bunch of gypsies a few years ago.[/QUOTE]
Yeah - even some high-quality "New Right" texts suffer from this naivé "Indo-Europeanism", like this denunciation of the Beslan Massacre by Robert Steuckers:
[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="3"][FONT="Garamond"]"[B]It was, then, against the children, the rising generation, of this small, ancient, and very proud people that the Chechen vermin, with the complicity of the Turks, the Americans, Islamists, and journalists like those of[I] Le Soir[/I], carried out their genocidal attack, for no other term than "genocide" does justice to the character of this sort of barbarism -- and indeed follows the logic of the Turks' earlier attempt to exterminate the Armenian people [/B][in the period 1915-1922, when close to two million Armenians were shot, butchered, or starved].
We call on all European peoples, from Dublin to Vladivostock, to condemn this assault on the existence of the Indo-European peoples of the Caucasus. [B] Against the murderous enterprise of these Islamic forces supported by the globalists, it is necessary to affirm that Caucasia is Indo-European. All non-Indo-European populations and religious confessions have no legitimacy there[/B].[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[url]http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=3788[/url]
Now, if you approach this issue on linguistic basis [I]alone[/I], you will see that non-Indo-European nations like Chechens have just as great historical claim to Caucasus as Indo-European Ossetes - in fact, maybe even greater since they were there already before the invasion of Indo-European nomads, as were non-Indo-European Georgians as well.
Steuckers also conveniently leaves out the fact that Indo-European Kurds eagerly participated on the genocide of Armenians.
(Not even mentioning that thanks to racial mixture, modern Turks are in a purely genetic sense much more "Indo-European" than Turanian or Mongoloid. If you don't believe this, compare modern Turks to Central Asian Turkic-speakers like Kazakhs.)
To sum it up, they try to approach this issue with [I]artificial secularism [/I]as if language were the essential matter of conflict here and not religion - namely Christian religion.
Petr