← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Faust
Thread ID: 14932 | Posts: 85 | Started: 2004-09-08
2004-09-08 18:01 | User Profile
The Phora European Community
The Phora Forum does to seem to have an unbalanced lot running it. :blink:
Now it seems odd to me, in a place full of people who use names like Dr. Mengele and pictures of nazis as their Avatars, like Hitler, Mengele, Himmler and Gobbles, that I should be attacked for "Nordicism." :shocking:
I posted the censorsed article on OD too. It is not perfect, but much better than anything you would get in the average history text book these days. And if I had to agree with everyword of every article I posted I could only post stuff I wrote myself. And then I might rethink it later.
I thought it was a good article on the Egyptians not being Negros. The article seems well written for the most part. I have seen all of this data before in other books and articles.
The Racial Makeup of the Original Egyptians [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14908[/url]
Is "Nordicism" a bad thing I would say not.
More threads on the "Phora"
Notice 08/28/04 (Texas Dissident on antiyuppie) [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14851[/url]
In Z's House There are Many Lies [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14696&highlight=house[/url]
I they going Freeperish or something?
And as me and skemper said: [QUOTE]I agree, Faust. I, too, have made some posts on the Phora and like the basic structure, but am turned off by some of the crude and tasteless members and their language, and not their beliefs.-skemper [/QUOTE]
Why I being attacked. Also some of them were upset that I was attacking Sodomites in one thread.
I had reposted this OD thread:
HIV Infected Sodomite Lashes Out At Heterosexual Women [url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14887[/url]
2004-09-09 14:39 | User Profile
Out of sight, out of mind, Faust my friend.
W
2004-09-09 14:52 | User Profile
Lo siento, Faust.
I don't understand that place at all. Something weird about it, but to be honest I haven't spent enough time there to put my finger on it.
Maybe Okiereddust can be of help. He's usually pretty good diagnosing these kinds of things.
2004-09-09 19:36 | User Profile
I think with the Phora is that pro-European does not mean necessarily mean pro-white or conservative, in fact, one can say most of Europe is neither. There was one woman who answered one of my threads who proudly proclaimed herself bisexual. I don't know why your thread about the Egyptians was cesnsored but I looked at it and many objected to censoring it.
Also, TBF is posting over there and complaining how TD and Okkie have been letting WEistbot and me "run roughshod over his threads". I have not been posting to his threads for awhile now. I just can't take him seriously.
2004-09-09 19:40 | User Profile
I find some of the discussion there interesting, but I also feel slightly unwelcome. There seems to be an almost general animus toward all things Christian.
2004-09-09 20:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]I find some of the discussion there interesting, but I also feel slightly unwelcome. There seems to be an almost general animus toward all things Christian.[/QUOTE]
You might have hit the nail on its head, Q. Visiting the pages over there (which I've done on a couple of occasions to follow the incredible work of Petr and PaleoLeftist), I'm struck with the same feeling I most recently had when I accidentally stumbled into some kind of voodoo/witchcraft store on a recent visit to the French Quarter a few weeks ago. Many will scoff I'm sure, but it's like there's an oppressive atmosphere that kind of bears down on one's being. Hopefully some of you believing brothers and sisters will know what I mean.
All I can say is God bless and keep our brother Petr who is doing the Lord's work over there in that spiritually quite hostile environment. Keep him in your prayers.
2004-09-09 21:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Lo siento, Faust.
I don't understand that place at all. Something weird about it, but to be honest I haven't spent enough time there to put my finger on it.
Maybe Okiereddust can be of help. He's usually pretty good diagnosing these kinds of things.[/QUOTE]No real mystery. Take a bunch of guys that get kicked off of a forum, in a fashion that makes them mad enough to start their own forum, and they'll be pretty hostile, to anyone and anything associated with the old forum, those people and ideas that got them kicked off. In general in fact these vendetta's take priority over anything else. The oldtimers here from other forums all understand exactly what I mean.
Its very difficult to work two such hostile forums simultaneously, as again we all know from our experience here.
2004-09-10 00:38 | User Profile
Stuffed shirts you guys are. Here your country is gone, a coup has taken place and the new regime doesn't even have the courtesy to change the flag, your people, a proud people who have been on earth at least 40,000 years, face a blending extinction, communism has finally arrived in the country in the form of political correctness and Federal Reserve slavery, there are a dual set of laws, one for white people and another for everyone else, and you guys are offended if dissidents on a web site have avatars of famous Nazis. Who can possibly care?
2004-09-10 00:51 | User Profile
Jesus Christ or forest spirits, I don't care. If you support a white man's right to send his kid to a white school and sell his house to a fellow white, you can stand by me.
2004-09-10 01:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Stuffed shirts you guys are..... you guys are offended if dissidents on a web site have avatars of famous Nazis. Who can possibly care?[/QUOTE]Well the Phorans who were always complaining people like me were seeing "A Nazi under every bedpost" really don't have any right to complain now. A few people are pretty blithe about National Socialism, but even in quarters like this I'd say the large majority of people don't take being personally identified with Nazism as a unfettered compliment. When you allow Nazi symbology on your forum though you tend to lose the right to complain loudly. If you never intended to, that's fine and dandy, but most people are a lot more sensitive about it than they let onto in these quarters, and whatever you think about it definitely limits the breadth of your appeal.
2004-09-10 01:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Well the Phorans who were always complaining people like me were seeing "A Nazi under every bedpost" really don't have any right to complain now.[/QUOTE]
I wonder what percentage of Phorans you think are Nazis? I would say at the very most 10%. Now [I]sympathizers[/I] there's a different story. The Second World WAr hurt white people so much, can anyone really take the Allies side? Not me. I basically loath them all-- but I have some sympathy for the National Socialism of Germany. It sure as hell out shines the New Deal, or Churchill's hopeless chicanery, or Stalin's butchery, all of those, by the way, heavily jewish.
2004-09-10 01:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]When you allow Nazi symbology on your forum though you tend to lose the right to complain loudly. If you never intended to, that's fine and dandy, but most people are a lot more sensitive about it than they let onto in these quarters, and whatever you think about it definitely limits the breadth of your appeal.[/QUOTE]
Why are people sensitive about a percentage of pro-Nazi symbology on a web site? Do you think it has anything to do with unremitting jewish mass propaganda for the last 30 years?
2004-09-10 02:13 | User Profile
We need people who are deprogrammed. If you pee in your pants at the sight of Goebbles or Hitler then chances are you are too brainwashed to be of any use. Paleocons are called the bad names and this is reason such symbology makes you nervous. Your worried about your reputation. You are afraid of the smear. You llive in fear of the smear. It's in your sweat. The jewish media moguls are playing you with symbols, just like a bunch of old Kabbalists.
2004-09-10 02:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Why are people sensitive about a percentage of pro-Nazi symbology on a web site? Do you think it has anything to do with unremitting jewish mass propaganda for the last 30 years?[/QUOTE]For whatever reason, at the time of the split the Phoran's were quite sensitive. You might ask them if they now view this sensitivity as a residual product of jewish conditioning if you want to know, I suppose.
2004-09-10 02:21 | User Profile
Can't answer the question yourself?
2004-09-10 03:05 | User Profile
Bardamu,
I agree with much of what you say. I am not attacking people for using whatever avatars they want. But why was I being attacked for "Nordicism." And what's wong "Nordicism?" I like the idea of "Nordicism" in theory. I find the idea of having to be PC about European Pre-History most sickening. All this Forum asks is one not attack Christianity, which I agree with for the most part, as a bad idea.
2004-09-10 03:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]Bardamu,
I agree with much of what you say. I am not attacking people for using whatever avatars they want. But why was I being attacked for "Nordicism." And what's wong "Nordicism?" I like the idea of "Nordicism" in theory. I find the idea of having to be PC about European Pre-History most sickening. All this Forum asks is one not attack Christianity, which I agree with for the most part, as a bad idea.[/QUOTE]
I have to read the thread in question. I'll respond a little later.
2004-09-10 04:04 | User Profile
Faust:
Here is a link to the full thread:
[url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3182[/url]
Julius Caesar (unknown user) is the mod who locked the thread. This may have been his last act as a moderator before denouncing the Phora and it's membership as a whole for, you guessed it, [B]Nordicism[/B]. He is no longer a moderator, or even a member, that I can tell. No wonder you questioned the sanity of the place. LOL. IN short, the guy came unhinged and you saw but a small corner of the overall melodrama. Anyway, you had defenders on that thread.
2004-09-10 08:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Anyway, you had defenders on that thread.[/QUOTE]
Nearly every post in that thread is one in his defense, it should be noted. There was basically just one kook, who's thankfully gone now.
2004-09-10 12:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]I wonder what percentage of Phorans you think are Nazis? I would say at the very most 10%. Now [I]sympathizers[/I] there's a different story.
Well they certainly are prominent, with their Nazi avatars, including people like our old Friedrich Braun. And since these people run the forum now, (even if Fade got AntiYuppie to symbollically share in that role) you'd have to logically assume there are a lot more sympathizers.
The Second World WAr hurt white people so much, can anyone really take the Allies side? Not me. I basically loath them all-- but I have some sympathy for the National Socialism of Germany. It sure as hell out shines the New Deal, or Churchill's hopeless chicanery, or Stalin's butchery, all of those, by the way, heavily jewish.[/QUOTE]Don't know Bardamu. Hitler and National Socialism did as much damage to the German people as the Allies. Out of perversity I can understand a bit, but as a serious alternative? No way.
To advocate NS is to remove oneself from serious political discussion and consideration. That's why I'm always suspicious, when doctrinaire NS moves in, that some sort of clever ADL/SPLC/government provoceteur's are pulling the strings, and either unwittingly or wittingy the others are playing the puppet.
Raina couldn't help boasting of such. There's something fishy about wat's going on here, I can say that, although I can't exactly put my finger on it.(sort of like I originally was with Trisk).
2004-09-10 12:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Stuffed shirts you guys are. Here your country is gone, a coup has taken place and the new regime doesn't even have the courtesy to change the flag, your people, a proud people who have been on earth at least 40,000 years, face a blending extinction, communism has finally arrived in the country in the form of political correctness and Federal Reserve slavery, there are a dual set of laws, one for white people and another for everyone else, and you guys are offended if dissidents on a web site have avatars of famous Nazis. Who can possibly care?[/QUOTE]
I for one don't care.
I just want them to go away so I can continue not to care IN PEACE.
Out of sight, out of mind.
Which raises the question of your motivations on this thread, Bardamu. Why do you insist on bringing this back into sight and into mind? Why are you picking this particular scab, when what most of us clearly want is to forget them altogether?
What's your point, man?
I direct the same questions to Faust, who initiated this. It's like mulling over Free Republic endlessly.
WHO GIVES A RAT'S ASS ABOUT A BUNCH OF NAZI LOSERS???
We have other fish to fry.
Walter
2004-09-10 13:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis] Which raises the question of your motivations on this thread, Bardamu. Why do you insist on bringing this back into sight and into mind? Why are you picking this particular scab, when what most of us clearly want is to forget them altogether?
[/QUOTE]
I didn't start the thread. I just responded to it. Are you sure it is not my response you object to?
2004-09-10 14:06 | User Profile
I've been lurking over at ThePhora and there's some good discussions. The Nazi symbols don't bother me at all, and I'm in agreement with Bardamu's statement about our country, the United States, being certainly gone, one small step away from complete Jewish Totalitarianism.
As things get worse and worse in this country, as collapse and genocide reveal themselves on our shores, as lawlessness and murder escalate, as non-Whites target Whites for extermination, formerly disparate groups and movements of the White race will have no choice but to find common ground because WE'RE GONNA NEED EACH OTHER.
You can start to see some of it now with many Leftists and Rightists agreeing on some certain key issues. When the Collapse comes, as it certainly will, survival will trump many nuances of disagreement.
Things just aren't that dreadful.....yet. Anyway, Original Dissent is my home, I'm not really into The Phora, but I'll still check in there from time to time.
2004-09-10 15:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]And what's wong "Nordicism?"[/QUOTE] Nothing Faust, a wong never makes a white, but... [QUOTE=Faust]I like the idea of "Nordicism" in theory.[/QUOTE] ...have you thought this through? For instance, do you stand behind this paragraph? [QUOTE]A rule of thumb is that a civilized white country reverts to a lower level of culture once the population becomes excessively mixed with alien genes. Portugal is an example; although the average Portuguese looks white, he actually has about 10 percent black blood, because of the assimilation of Negro slaves. Portugal was, of course, almost pure white in its glory days. And if the rulers of a country are visibly Negroid, it is to be expected that a decline is setting in.[/QUOTE] If you spend enough time on Skadi - where the seeds of the overreaction to your Phora post were sown - I hope youââ¬â¢ll be persuaded that Nordicism is in fact race fetishism wrapped in a cloak of pseudo-science.
2004-09-10 15:34 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]I direct the same questions to Faust, who initiated this. It's like mulling over Free Republic endlessly.
WHO GIVES A RAT'S ASS ABOUT A BUNCH OF NAZI LOSERS??? [/QUOTE]
Well let's be fair, Walter. Faust is a top poster here who was just looking for inside information about what that Nazi board was about. He even discretely posted it within the Members Only forum, I assume in order to not serve as a disruption.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that. In fact, the 'Cyber Politics' forum was created just for discussing things like Free Republic and other boards. As long as that type discussion stays relatively within the designated forum like Cyber Politics, then I don't have much of a problem with it. It can be informative. Like most subjects it just has to be monitored and not let get out of hand to where it becomes a huge distraction.
2004-09-10 16:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis][quote=Bardamu]Stuffed shirts you guys are. Here your country is gone, a coup has taken place and the new regime doesn't even have the courtesy to change the flag, your people, a proud people who have been on earth at least 40,000 years, face a blending extinction, communism has finally arrived in the country in the form of political correctness and Federal Reserve slavery, there are a dual set of laws, one for white people and another for everyone else, and you guys are offended if dissidents on a web site have avatars of famous Nazis. Who can possibly care? I for one don't care.
I just want them to go away so I can continue not to care IN PEACE.
Out of sight, out of mind.......
I direct the same questions to Faust, who initiated this. It's like mulling over Free Republic endlessly.
WHO GIVES A RAT'S ASS ABOUT A BUNCH OF NAZI LOSERS???
We have other fish to fry.
Walter[/QUOTE]I respectfully but firmly disagree with you Walter. I differ with Bardamu on the answer to his question, but I think it was a good and honest question, and he certainly has a good reason for asking it.
We do have to wonder about the wisdom of stirring up fights when our country is in the situation is in. And its not like there is such a multitude of paleo's that we can afford to write off or will be able to ignore a significant group of obviously bright and dedicated internet posters off, even if they're often cantankerous and don't agree with us.
Nor can either of us seriously toy with notions in any form of our own form of religious absolutism, whether Christian or Pagan, without badly fracturing and/or weakening our movement. I think its important to learn some positive lessons from this. Its an issue that isn't going to go away, at least not before we do.
2004-09-10 17:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust] We do have to wonder about the wisdom of stirring up fights when our country is in the situation is in. And its not like there is such a multitude of paleo's that we can afford to write off or will be able to ignore a significant group of obviously bright and dedicated internet posters off, even if they're often cantankerous and don't agree with us.
Nor can either of us seriously toy with notions in any form of our own form of religious absolutism, whether Christian or Pagan, without badly fracturing and/or weakening our movement. I think its important to learn some positive lessons from this. Its an issue that isn't going to go away, at least not before we do.[/QUOTE]
I certainly agree with this.
2004-09-10 17:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident] Faust is a top poster here who was just looking for inside information about what that Nazi board was about. [/QUOTE]
Contemporary definition of Nazi: anyone one step to the right.
Contemporary definition of real Nazis: that group that doesn't call the group one step to its right "Nazis".
In so far as it goes, we won't find Fade calling the group one step to his right, "Nazis". lol.
I think there is something very humorous about passing the "Nazi" buck. Obviously, TD, you are fully aware that practically the entire political universe in America would, if they knew about OD, call it "a Nazi board".
2004-09-10 18:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Contemporary definition of Nazi: anyone one step to the right.
Contemporary definition of real Nazis: that group that doesn't call the group one step to its right "Nazis".
In so far as it goes, we won't find Fade calling the group one step to his right, "Nazis". lol.
I would hardly consider that board or anyone there to my 'right', B. In fact, it seems very 'left' to me, but what do I know?
I think there is something very humorous about passing the "Nazi" buck. Obviously, TD, you are fully aware that practically the entire political universe in America would, if they knew about OD, call it "a Nazi board".[/QUOTE]
Not being flippant, nor disrespectful Bardamu, I promise, but you and others that keep repeating this line must confuse me with somebody who gives a dang about what label others put on OD. Those with discernment, honesty and integrity know the truth about this board and that's quite good enough for me.
Now at one time in the past I did care about how folks considered this place, but numerous events worked to cure me of that and now other's perceptions and opinions of what goes on here do not serve to motivate me one way or the other. Neither do I think they do for the majority of our core contributors either. OD at large is more a reflection of internal ethics and principles.
As to the Phora, I don't think it's much of a reach to say it's a nazi-controlled board with alot of teenage angst thrown in for laughs, I would guess. That's all well and fine for those who are into that sort of thing. Being where I am in life and such, it just doesn't hold much interest for me. I don't speak for anyone else, though.
I wasn't trying to run that board down with my previous comment. I just thought it was a matter of fact. Granted I'm kind of out of touch with some of these things though and that's why I deferred the question to Okie.
2004-09-10 19:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Contemporary definition of Nazi: anyone one step to the right.
Contemporary definition of real Nazis: that group that doesn't call the group one step to its right "Nazis".
In so far as it goes, we won't find Fade calling the group one step to his right, "Nazis". lol.
I think there is something very humorous about passing the "Nazi" buck. Obviously, TD, you are fully aware that practically the entire political universe in America would, if they knew about OD, call it "a Nazi board".[/QUOTE]Bardamu, as the old saying goes, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. Just because the political world is paranoid about people being Nazi's doesn't mean in any way that there aren't any real ones out there, including all over the Phora, or that people who are in no way paranoid, or inclined to overreact wouldn't label many on the Phora as such.
Friedrich Braun and Leland Grant for instance have always made known their unreserved admiration for the Third Reich, and probably Fade as well, though I'm not quite as sure as he is usually seems diplomatic and low-key when I see him in operation. FB and LG are that way for that matter as well. They, like Trisk, are rather unusual Nazi's, but the bottom line is they still are that, as any serious discourse will determine.
You and the Phoran's whining about our "brown-baiting" has started to decline to the level of the substanceless rhetorical noise people without a real case generate. I do see you the point you are trying to make, but you must realize by now that it is immaterial to our point.
2004-09-11 00:17 | User Profile
na Gaeil is gile,
Did you read what I said at the start of the thread? [QUOTE]A good article overall but I wish he had left out the nonsense attacks on the Portuguese people. This notion has been proven wong. The Egyptians were not Negros, and he does a good job of showing this.-Faust
[url]http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14908[/url] [/QUOTE]
As I recall DNA studies have disproven idea about the Portuguese people. Other than the Portuguese bit; it is a good article.
On the other hand it hard to disagree with the idea:
"A rule of thumb is that a civilized white country reverts to a lower level of culture once the population becomes excessively mixed with alien genes."
I do not understand, why he tells this untruth about Portuguese, when Brasil would suport this idea very well. The nations of "Latin" America make a good case that miscegenation and multi-racialism are a bad thing.
2004-09-11 07:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=xmetalhead]As things get worse and worse in this country, as collapse and genocide reveal themselves on our shores, as lawlessness and murder escalate, as non-Whites target Whites for extermination, formerly disparate groups and movements of the White race will have no choice but to find common ground because WE'RE GONNA NEED EACH OTHER.[/QUOTE]
BINGO! For Walter (just to cite an example who's made his opinions strongly felt in recent posts within this thread) to claim that some pagan national socialist is his enemy, when the divinity of Christ is their only major disagreement, while the Jews and their followers wish to throw Walter and his family into a pen and give them the Aub-Ghraib treatment, strikes me as irrational to the point of suicidal insanity. The people who want to actively prevent you from being murdered are not your enemies, despite whatever ideological disagreements you may have with them.
2004-09-11 07:23 | User Profile
Originally Posted by Okiereddust:
"We do have to wonder about the wisdom of stirring up fights when our country is in the situation is in. And its not like there is such a multitude of paleo's that we can afford to write off or will be able to ignore a significant group of obviously bright and dedicated internet posters off, even if they're often cantankerous and don't agree with us.
Nor can either of us seriously toy with notions in any form of our own form of religious absolutism, whether Christian or Pagan, without badly fracturing and/or weakening our movement. I think its important to learn some positive lessons from this. Its an issue that isn't going to go away, at least not before we do."
[QUOTE=Bardamu]I certainly agree with this.[/QUOTE]
As do I. Vehemently.
2004-09-13 04:48 | User Profile
Kevin_O'Keeffe,
Yes one can agree with Bardamu, Okiereddust and xmetalhead on that.
The marxist have destroyed our nation and we are being overrun and the plans for our extermination are being made as we speak. We must stand and fight.
2004-09-13 11:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE][O'Keeffe]BINGO! For Walter (just to cite an example who's made his opinions strongly felt in recent posts within this thread) to claim that some pagan national socialist is his enemy, when the divinity of Christ is their only major disagreement, [/QUOTE]
That's a very fundamental disagreement.
[QUOTE]while the Jews and their followers wish to throw Walter and his family into a pen and give them the Aub-Ghraib treatment,[/QUOTE]
So did the Nazis. They're the same for us.
[QUOTE] strikes me as irrational to the point of suicidal insanity.[/QUOTE]
I think you underestimate the number of enemies we have.
[QUOTE]The people who want to actively prevent you from being murdered are not your enemies, despite whatever ideological disagreements you may have with them.[/QUOTE]
There can be no peace between Monotheism and Paganism. We're blood enemies.
Yahweh hates Baal, and vice versa. They want to annihilate each other.
It does no good to fool ourselves about these hard facts.
The mistake I think many here make is in thinking that we're in the same movement as Nazis and other assorted pagan nationalists. Speaking only for myself, I certainly am in no way connected with them.
I'm not in the "white nationalist" movement per se. I am in the Jesus movement, which includes as a central element a healthy nationalism (see Catechism of the Catholic Church Articles 56-58). I want to defend the natural rights of my own European, Christian and English-speaking American nation because that is what the trascendent God wills. But I certainly don't worship my race or nation.
We Christians worship the Uncreated God in Christ. The Nazis wrench that one aspect of our very created natures - race and nation - and worship it instead of the One Eternal God.
The Nazis are pagans by definition.
And as I said we Monotheists can have naught to do with worshipping created things, including race and nation.
I think that once we admit that we're in different movements most of the arguments fall away.
And I think it's important to do this now, lest we get lulled into thinking those who hate us - like the Nazis - are people we could turn to in a pinch. Rest assured they'll be lying in wait for that, knife unsheathed.
Walter
2004-09-13 12:59 | User Profile
AMEN, Walter.
In the really big scheme of things, Allmighty God have punished us (White race) for our apostasy during and after the Endarkenment, and for spreading this abomination to the rest of the world.
He has given us to the hands of our enemies, just like He did with the ancient Israel, after favoring it against its enemies while it was still loyal.
These pagan racialists are just making things worse for their own people, by brazenly relying on their own weak strength and angering the Triune God even more with their desperate blasphemies.
I've got at times the same depressing feeling that those prophets in Old Testament had - they knew that their nation had become apostate and paganized, that it DESERVED to be punished, but they still implored God to leave a root for their people to rise again.
God Allmighty, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, have mercy on our people. Not all of us are apostates.
Petr
2004-09-13 13:45 | User Profile
This is the age old question, and it comes up again and again. It really comes down to a question of what we are trying to preserve -- a race or a civilization? If it is merely a race, then you could have a hardy group of Muslim, homosexual, Marxist, materialist whites, for example, and feel perfectly content that you were preserving the race. If you are trying to preserve a civilization, however, then things get more complicated. Race is certainly a part of it, but so is religion, culture, art, etc., and all of these things must be preserved to be successful. There are many people who may not personally believe in Christ, but who see the value in Christian Civilization and wish to preserve it. I am happy to work with these folks. The problem comes, however, when you try to work with people who are explicitly anti-Christian, merely because you agree on one issue. If someone is anti-Christian, then a large part of their very identity is defined by their opposition to your beliefs. Cooperation with those that despise you is doomed to failure.
2004-09-13 14:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]This is the age old question, and it comes up again and again. It really comes down to a question of what we are trying to preserve -- a race or a civilization? If it is merely a race, then you could have a hardy group of Muslim, homosexual, Marxist, materialist whites, for example, and feel perfectly content that you were preserving the race. If you are trying to preserve a civilization, however, then things get more complicated. Race is certainly a part of it, but so is religion, culture, art, etc., and all of these things must be preserved to be successful. There are many people who may not personally believe in Christ, but who see the value in Christian Civilization and wish to preserve it. I am happy to work with these folks. The problem comes, however, when you try to work with people who are explicitly anti-Christian, merely because you agree on one issue. If someone is anti-Christian, then a large part of their very identity is defined by their opposition to your beliefs. Cooperation with those that despise you is doomed to failure.[/QUOTE]
Catholic dogma assets that mankind's divsion into "nations" is ordained by God Himself, and is an integral part of His plan of salvation. This comes from the covenant with Noah, when men were divided in their families, with their languages, in their lands, by their nations.
We see than that nations are defined by the indicia of (1) blood (in their families), (2) culture (with their languages), and (3) territorial sovereignty (in their lands).
It follows that the defense of "race" is in now way in direct opposition with defense of a "civilization" or "culture" as you seem to imply, since the two are simply aspects of the singular concept of "nation" .
A race is a distinct group of people sharing a common ancestry, and that genetic background establishes the general limits and general contours that their culture will take on. The culture in turn provides the genetic group with a sense of itself by providing a common set of symbols and beliefs that allow the group organically to organize itself in regard to its internal functioning and collective defense against external threats. Race and culture as so intimately intertwined that it really can be said that the two are flip sides of the same coin.
The principle of territorial sovereignty allows the genetic group to work out its own evolutionary and cultural destiny within the broader family of mankind.
This entire area of the Natural Law and Scriptural dogma has long since been worked out in detail by minds that tower over any tawdry little Nazi that ever lived. We sure as hell don't need some neo-pagan romanticist non-entity telling us about the cosmic importance of race/culture. We know that already, thanks, and indeed understand our identity as members of our nations as being integral to our own personal salvation.
So, I suggest that we all start thinking in Biblical terms of "nation." That's God's will for us - says so right there in that book over on my desk.
To repeat, there is no contradiction between "race" and "culture." In defending the Holy Faith of our fathers from all enemies - including especially all neo-pagans of either the Romanticist or Marxist schools - we are indeed defending the purity of our bloodlines from alien infiltration.
Warmest regards,
Walter
2004-09-13 14:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis] It follows that the defense of "race" is in now way in direct opposition with defense of a "civilization" or "culture" as you seem to imply, since the two are simply aspects of the singular concept of "nation" .[/QUOTE] Walter, I didn't mean to imply this at all, actually. What I meant was that 'race', while important, is merely a subset of 'civilization' and that those who would fetishize race while destroying the religion that the civilization or 'nation' is based on are missing the forest for the trees. There is certainly nothing wrong with being proud of your race and wanting what is best for it and its survival. In fact, it is godly and healthy. However, it is merely a part of a larger whole. Race fetishism is the same as every heresy, in that it takes something that is true when in context, blows it all out of proportion, and then sublimates everything to it.
2004-09-13 15:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]The marxist have destroyed our nation and we are being overrun and the plans for our extermination are being made as we speak. We must stand and fight.[/QUOTE]
The sooner and more fiercely the better. I'm not one with the sort of personality to enjoy war, or look forward to it needlessly, but when living under constant threat of utter annihilation, it would be a welcome relief. Besides, the bastards need to pay for what they've done to America (and Europe, Canada, Australia/NZ, South Africa, Rhodesia and no doubt other places).
2004-09-13 15:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]For Walter (just to cite an example who's made his opinions strongly felt in recent posts within this thread) to claim that some pagan national socialist is his enemy, when the divinity of Christ is their only major disagreement,
That's a very fundamental disagreement.
How fundamental is it really, when we have the precise same enemies? Unless Christians plan to forcibly convert the world, or Nazis plan to exterminate Christians, then the basis for enmity seems minimal, and the likelihood of either of those scenarios strikes me as equally minimal. We may not be in the same movement, but we are both working to defeat the same movement, which further minimizes any basis for enmity.
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]while the Jews and their followers wish to throw Walter and his family into a pen and give them the Aub-Ghraib treatment,
So did the Nazis. They're the same for us.
Virtually the entire Gentile population of Europe consisted of Christians, to one varying degree of devotion or another. Did the German National Socialists attempt to exterminate the Christians of Germany, or of any other nation? Of course not. It simply never happened. The fact Polish and other Catholic priests who tried to lead petty nationalist and/or Communist opposition movements got liquidated, doesn't mean much. In 1943, the S.S. could have arrested Pius XII at their leisure, and ransacked and burned the Vatican while they were at it. They had no desire to do so.
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis][I think you underestimate the number of enemies we have.
I think you're flat-out paranoid, or you're telling a convenient fiction in order to unify members of your perceived Christian Nationalist movement under your banner, and to the exclusion of those who have views which don't fit into your interpretation of how things should be. No one in the National Alliance ever talks about suppressing Christianity, I can assure you. There are a lot of people who think Christianity is ridiculous, but there are very few who imagine we can win without fighting side-by-side with our natural Christian allies. And there are more than a few Christians in the National Alliance (which is not, nor has ever been, an explicitly pagan or Atheist organization, but a non-sectarian one).
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis][The mistake I think many here make is in thinking that we're in the same movement as Nazis and other assorted pagan nationalists. Speaking only for myself, I certainly am in no way connected with them.
Yet one of the major causes of your movement, unless I am mistaken, is the defeat of the Talmudic Jews, the Bolshevists and the multiculturalist "liberals," yes? That is also one of the principal causes of the National Socialists. National Socialists have no desire to oppress Christians after the Judeo-centric riffraff is defeated, thus so as long as the feeling is mutual, does that not make us natural allies? And are you REALLY suggesting that there were no sincere Christians among sincere National Socialists in Germany during the Hitler period? Isn't that a bit unlikely?
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis][We Christians worship the Uncreated God in Christ. The Nazis wrench that one aspect of our very created natures - race and nation - and worship it instead of the One Eternal God.
The Nazis are pagans by definition.
I would say that it is far more accurate to say that most Nazis are Atheists or Agnostics who don't worship anything, but are never-the-less very committed to the survival of their race and nation. Your choice to characterize that degree of concern as "worship" says a lot more about you than it does about Nazis. It seems to say you want to see Pagans where they don't necessarily exist.
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis][And as I said we Monotheists can have naught to do with worshipping created things, including race and nation.
Nazis don't characterize their belief system as one based in worship. And more than a few are Christian monotheists.
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis][I think that once we admit that we're in different movements most of the arguments fall away.
Once Christians, paleo-cons and Nazis all go their separate ways, they can watch as each is hanged separately by the victorious Jews. No one faction is strong enough to win on its own. Your religion may tell you Christianity is strong enough to win on its own, but that old adage, "the Lord helps those who helps themselves," seems to apply here. Will Jesus give you victory if you're too stupid or prideful (no offense intended) to engage in the acts of charitable friendship necessary to achieve it?
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis][And I think it's important to do this now, lest we get lulled into thinking those who hate us - like the Nazis - are people we could turn to in a pinch. Rest assured they'll be lying in wait for that, knife unsheathed.[/QUOTE]
Many Nazis hold Christianity in contempt, though very few hate actual Christians. None (or perhaps a very, very small and frankly disturbed minority) have any plans to hurt Christians. I must reiterate my opinion that you're either being paranoid or strategically dishonest.
2004-09-13 15:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]This is the age old question, and it comes up again and again. It really comes down to a question of what we are trying to preserve -- a race or a civilization? If it is merely a race, then you could have a hardy group of Muslim, homosexual, Marxist, materialist whites, for example, and feel perfectly content that you were preserving the race.
Civilization is largely the product of race, much as personality is largely the product of one's individual genetic endowment. I don't see an artificial barrier between some specific point in time, such as the Crucifixtion, or the conversion of Constantine, that signifies the beginning of one European civilization and the death of a predecessor. Plato and Aquinas are part of the same tradition, despite the former being a pagan and the latter a Christian.
[QUOTE=Quantrill]The problem comes, however, when you try to work with people who are explicitly anti-Christian, merely because you agree on one issue. If someone is anti-Christian, then a large part of their very identity is defined by their opposition to your beliefs. Cooperation with those that despise you is doomed to failure.[/QUOTE]
I think Walter is confusing those who mock Christianity, or feel frustration with it (not that all Nazis do those things), with those who desire to slay it and its adherents. Not incidentally, the only people who feel that way are our common enemies.
2004-09-13 16:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]This entire area of the Natural Law and Scriptural dogma has long since been worked out in detail by minds that tower over any tawdry little Nazi that ever lived. We sure as hell don't need some neo-pagan romanticist non-entity telling us about the cosmic importance of race/culture. We know that already, thanks, and indeed understand our identity as members of our nations as being integral to our own personal salvation.
You may know it, Walter, and perhaps Russian Orthodox Christians know it too (I couldn't say), or perhaps its accepted in some more traditionally Catholic villages in Italy or Spain, but in the English-speaking world, Christianity has NOTHING to do with such ideas, and its frankly amusing, even a little weird, to read you sugesting that it does. If I go to my local parish priest and start discussing such ideas, he'll be horrified, even if he identifies himself as a conservative sort of traditionalist Catholic (rather than one of those guitar playing, hug-your-neighbor types I'm sure you've come to despise). I think you're confusing what you believe, and with what some Catholic intellectuals in another century believed, with what's actually believed today. Today's Anglophonic Christians, Catholic and Protestant alike, for the most part, are multiculturalist "liberals."
2004-09-13 16:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]na Gaeil is gile, Did you read what I said at the start of the [OD] thread?[/QUOTE] No Faust; I read the Phora thread, source of the ex-moderator's reaction, which omits your qualifications concerning the Portuguese.
2004-09-13 16:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]The problem comes, however, when you try to work with people who are explicitly anti-Christian, merely because you agree on one issue. If someone is anti-Christian, then a large part of their very identity is defined by their opposition to your beliefs. Cooperation with those that despise you is doomed to failure.[/QUOTE]
True enough, but a key point to remember is that political/activist dialogue here on the internet is skewed way out of line with actual reality because almost all of it is done and/or driven by a handful of blowhards in love with their own rhetoric. Seriously, how many times does anybody ever cross paths in real life with somebody like, say, Alex Linder? Probably never.
The internet and the social interaction it provides is in no way indicative of real-life and should never be confused as such. By its very nature it presents a false reality and we as Christians, who specialize in the real, or true Truth if you will, especially need to remember that distinguishing and important fact and let it guide our actions accordingly.
2004-09-13 16:53 | User Profile
[COLOR=DarkRed] - "There is certainly nothing wrong with being proud of your race and wanting what is best for it and its survival. In fact, it is godly and healthy. However, it is merely a part of a larger whole.
"Race fetishism is the same as every heresy, in that it takes something that is true when in context, blows it all out of proportion, and then sublimates everything to it."[/COLOR]
That's right, Quantrill.
Loving and defending you race is just as natural as loving and defending your family - and indeed, The Holy Bible sees races basically as extended families.
(As do many modern Darwinist scholars too, and the name of one of the most powerful Mexican prison gangs in California is called "Nuestra Familia", "our family")
BUT, never forget these harsh words of our Lord Jesus Christ:
"Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; "[/COLOR]
So, by implication, "he who loves his race more than me is not worthy of me."
All the treasures of this world - our White genes included - will become a poison for us the moment we think we can enjoy them without God.
Petr
2004-09-13 18:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE][B]The fact Polish and other Catholic priests who tried to lead petty nationali[/B]st and/or Communist opposition movements [B]got liquidated, doesn't mean much. [/B] [/QUOTE]
I hope that you will recant that ghastly statement, Kevin.
Doesn't matter for much, huh?
Please tell me again about how Nazis mean Christians no harm.
Walter
2004-09-22 10:16 | User Profile
"The fact Polish and other Catholic priests who tried to lead petty nationalist and/or Communist opposition movements got liquidated, doesn't mean much."
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]I hope that you will recant that ghastly statement, Kevin.
Doesn't matter for much, huh?
Please tell me again about how Nazis mean Christians no harm.[/QUOTE]
If you actually read the middle portion of that sentence, rather than just the beginning and the end of it, you will see that the priests I am talking about are ones who essentially set themselves up as combatants in a war. No doubt some of them limited their resistance to the sort of non-vioent activities that would have been better dealt with via some sort of traditional law enforcement context, rather than in the brutal manner that it unfortunately was. This, however, is not a question of alleged Nazi hostility towards Christianity, but rather of the excessively totalitarian nature of German National Socialism, as opposed to an American variety which, by definition, would incliude an emphasis on the values enshrined in the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights (rather than, oh, say, Prussian militarism and social conformism). Continental European societies (which is to say, not just Germany) have, at least since socialism became a major political player, long been plagued by an insufficient emphasis on the liberty of the individual and the local community. This is to say that the German Nazis dealt with some of their opponents, including some who just so happened to be Roman Catholic priests, in much the same manner that European nations have often done during times of national crisis, i.e. they had them all shot. To pick out the fact that some of the people executed by the German government for actions the German government regarded as treasonous, just so happened to be Catholic priests (as I knew you were going to do, hence my attempt to preempt that argument with my original statement on the subject), and to cite that as somehow evidence of hostility to Christianity (when it so clearly isn't; we agree priests aren't above the law, yes?), is pure propaganda. I have no need to retract the ludicrous parody of the statment you are claiming to believe I made.
2004-09-22 10:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]"The fact Polish and other Catholic priests who tried to lead petty nationalist and/or Communist opposition movements got liquidated, doesn't mean much." If you actually read the middle portion of that sentence, rather than just the beginning and the end of it, you will see that the priests I am talking about are ones who [B]essentially set themselves up as combatants in a war. [/B] No doubt some of them limited their resistance to the sort of non-vioent activities that would have been better dealt with via some sort of traditional law enforcement context, rather than in the brutal manner that it unfortunately was. [snip] This is to say that the German Nazis dealt with some of their opponents, including some who just so happened to be Roman Catholic priests, in much the same manner that European nations have often done during times of national crisis, i.e. they had them all shot. To pick out the fact that some of the people executed by the German government for actions the [B]German government regarded as treasonous[/B], just so happened to be Catholic priests (as I knew you were going to do, hence my attempt to preempt that argument with my original statement on the subject), and to cite that as somehow evidence of hostility to Christianity (when it so clearly isn't; we agree priests aren't above the law, yes?), is pure propaganda. I have no need to retract the ludicrous parody of the statment you are claiming to believe I made.[/QUOTE]
I note that you equate what the Nazis did in Germany and in the countries like Poland they attacked and ravaged. We should separate the two.
In the case of Germany, you speak as if the Nazis weren't themselves traitors. But they were. They were traitors to Christendom. The Nazis were the usurpers and the grabbers, Kevin. The German Catholic clergy they shot and otherwise persecuted were the ones who remained loyal to the German nation and Christian civilization. The Nazis were the ones who worked against German Christian culture and basically outlawed Christian society. You're getting it exactly backward. Bonhoeffer was a great German patriot. His aim was off, that's all. But he was the loyal German, not the mad Hitler who reduced Germany to rubble.
As to the Poliish clergy and that of other nations that fell victim to the Nazis, their loyalty was to their nation and Christian civilization. You call them "traitors?" Such slander on great men, Kevin. The Nazis weren't shooting traitors, they were shooting patriots. And it's a matter of record how they dealt with Polish and Russian patriots.
It matters not a whit whether the "German government saw [them] treasonous." We deal with objective standards, not what was going on in the heads of a bunch of second string losers. Besides, the Nazis couldn't possibly think that resistance to their occupation of Poland was treason, because they had no right to be in Poland in the first place. What madness is that?
The Nazis were traitors to our civilization from the get-go. They were, as such, the villains, just as the Russian Bolsheviks (who sided with the Jewish Bolsheviks) are the villains of Russian history. As traitors, you cannot rationally justify their actions against even the German Christians who resisted them, much less the Polish, French (and especially) Russian patriots who finally crushed them so completely there was nothing left but a greasy little spot.
So may it always be with tyrants.
The Nazis launched an unjust war. As such, all of their actions are crimes to be condemned, and all actions in resistance to them are justified and laudatory.
Walter
2004-09-23 06:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]The Nazis weren't shooting traitors, they were shooting patriots. And it's a matter of record how they dealt with Polish and Russian patriots.
If that's the case, then who were the Soviets shooting when they exterminated members of the Vlasov Brigade? Traitors or patriots?
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]Besides, the Nazis couldn't possibly think that resistance to their occupation of Poland was treason, because they had no right to be in Poland in the first place.
They quite arguably had every reason to take back the western third of Poland (which was the only part of Polish territory ever formally annexed by Germany), which was largely inhabited by German-speaking ethnic Germans (even the streets signs were in German), and which had been part of Germany until it was taken from them at Versailles a mere 20 years previously. As to central Poland, I tend to agree that was something they should not have done (although once Britain, France, Canada, South Africa, Australia and New Zealand all immediately declared war on Germany for invading western Poland, they may have quite reasonably seen it as unwise to permit the existence of a hostile nation, one which was allied with their new enemies, on their eastern border). By the time they invaded eastern Poland, nearly two years later, they were largely perceived as liberators by the Polish people who'd known the horrors of Soviet tyranny. The German variety, however regrettable in certain classically European respects, was greatly preferable.
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]The Nazis launched an unjust war. As such, all of their actions are crimes to be condemned, and all actions in resistance to them are justified and laudatory.
Should the Nazis have simply waited for the Soviets to have swept into Europe then? There's a reason that Operation Barbarossa was so successful in its opening months; the Soviets had all their tanks and bombers massed along their western border, prepared to invaded central Poland, Slovakia and Romania (and presumably not stopping until Lisbon). Polish imperialism in what was, irrespective of what Versailles may have declared, eastern Germany, and their obstinate refusal to set aside petty nationalism in favor of the larger, European picture, was not a sufficient reason to permit this to happen. Read Operation Icebreaker by a Mr. Sudoplatov for more information on the long planned Soviet invasion of Continental Europe.
2004-09-23 10:49 | User Profile
[COLOR=Red] - "The Nazis were traitors to our civilization from the get-go. They were, as such, the villains, just as the Russian Bolsheviks (who sided with the Jewish Bolsheviks) are the villains of Russian history."[/COLOR]
Walter, although I cannot sign this sentiment with 100 % certainty, I do have found an interesting quotation from Lubomyr Prytulak's "Ukrainian Archive" website.
It's about Andrey Sheptytsky, the Greek Catholic Metropolitan of Lvov during the WW II, by Raul Hilberg.
[COLOR=Blue]" He dispatched a lengthy handwritten letter dated August 29-31, 1942 to the Pope, in which he referred to the government of the German occupants as a regime of terror and corruption, more diabolical than that of the Bolsheviks. (Perpetrators, Victims, Bystanders, 1992, p. 267) "[/COLOR]
[url]http://www.ukar.org/60minart.html#Lviv[/url]
Think about it. Just HOW bad impression must have Nazis given of themselves to Ukrainians during these 14 months of their occupation, that the Christian bishop of Lvov, a city where Jewish Bolsheviks had coldly butchered many thousands of people just before their retreat, could say such a thing, that they were worse than Bolsheviks?
Petr
2004-09-24 04:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]Think about it. Just HOW bad impression must have Nazis given of themselves to Ukrainians during these 14 months of their occupation, that the Christian bishop of Lvov, a city where Jewish Bolsheviks had coldly butchered many thousands of people just before their retreat, could say such a thing, that they were worse than Bolsheviks? Petr[/QUOTE]Pretty bad. We've had numerous flame wars over WWII atrocities between German and at least some Slavs over the years.
Proof of its evil and counterproductive nature can be seen in the fact that even some high Nazi's rebelled. Rosenberg objected the the harsh tactics of the Ukrainian overseer, Koch, but Fuehrer Schucklegruber supported Koch.
2004-09-24 10:37 | User Profile
[COLOR=Purple]- "Rosenberg objected the the harsh tactics of the Ukrainian overseer, Koch, but Fuehrer Schucklegruber supported Koch."[/COLOR]
Just a little nitpick -
The province of Lvov was actually added to the (Polish) General Government in 1941, and was therefore Hans Frank's territory, not Erich Koch's.
Petr
2004-10-02 18:28 | User Profile
Fade threw in the towel at the Phora?
I can sympathize with that a great deal.
2004-10-02 19:03 | User Profile
I witnessed this explosion first hand.
It began when Fade started to seriously question the usual Nazi idea of Hitler as romantic hero, nay, a demi-god fooled to a war by evil international conspirators against his own will.
He began to openly wonder whether Hitler might have to share some fault for the beginning of the extremely destructive WW II, and whether life in Hitler-controlled Europe would have really been that "lost paradise" that all Whites should now yearn for.
Local Nazis were aghast at this blasphemy.
By all means read these threads. You won't see these things often discussed with such frankness among WN circles -and they are quite educational in themselves.
Here it began: Fade (and I, among others) began to argue that Hitler made a really big mistake when he declared war on the USA:
"Adolf Hitler's Declaration of War Against the United States of America"
[url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3743[/url]
This is where the storm really started:
"British Foreign Policy and the Polish Corridor"
[url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3918[/url]
Here it developed further:
"The Origins of the Second World War"
[url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4173[/url]
And here's Fade's farewell address:
[url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4189[/url]
[COLOR=DarkRed][SIZE=4]"I think I will follow . . . [/SIZE]
In the course of the past several weeks, it has become increasingly apparent to me that this website has strayed far from its original focus:
1.) To provide a forum for controversial views that are otherwise censored. 2.) To provide a meeting place for those who seek to save a dying civilisation.
With this purpose in mind, and with good intentions, I founded this website in the Fall of 2001. Over the past three years, in spite of recurring technical difficulties and at enormous personal expense, I have maintained this website. In light of such an investment of time, money, and personal effort a rational person should at some point take stock of what he has accomplished and decide where to go from there.
Looking around this stultifying place, I see childish quarrel after childish quarrel, soap opera after soap opera, a persistent pettiness which I am forced to deal with on an almost everyday basis. I see people advocating or apologising for the extermination of entire European peoples, the destruction of entire nations, and the annihilation of entire cultures. I see psuedoscholarship, lies, propaganda, and even malignant hatred of our own people. I have sat back and watched as people that I consider friends, even if we did not see eye to eye on every issue, abandon this forum in disgust. To be honest, I cannot blame them for leaving or persuade them to return. I can no longer associate myself in good conscience with or provide a platform for such filth either. So I am resigning from this forum as well.
Yes, I could purge this forum, but I do not really see what that would accomplish. With three years of experience, I have had more than enough time to get a general idea of the sort of people who would find their way to this website: fetishists, has beens who live in the past, nut case conspiracy theorists, but also, plenty of the serious, dedicated, and well-meaning people this forum was intended to originally reach. And to them, I wish the best of luck. People are counting on you.
In the meantime, I shall turn this forum over to Ebusitanus during the interregnum. I will continue to finance this forum until ownership can be transferred to whoever is ultimately willing to take it over. Contact me on Yahoo Instant Messenger (yahoo id: fadethebutcher) if you are interested. Some swan song, eh?
All the best,
FadeTheButcher"[/COLOR]
If I am allowed to make some kind of personal interpretation out of this, I think that Fade was beginning to feel some genuine uncomfort with that "post-moralism" he had been peddling. He began to realize that ideas have consequences.
When more consistent "might is right" Nazis began to grill him for this, he could no longer stand his (sort of) schizophrenic position and suddenly decided to call it off.
I myself seriously doubt whether I'll bother to hang around there anymore if Fade's decision is final.
I did not fight with NeoNietzsche and Wintermute just because I enjoyed of it, but because I hoped that I might also have some intelligent audience out there that actually bothers to listen what I've got to say.
Most of those guys seem to take off with Fade.
Petr
2004-10-02 19:45 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]If I am allowed to make some kind of personal interpretation out of this, I think that Fade was beginning to feel some genuine uncomfort with that "post-moralism" he had been peddling. He began to realize that ideas have consequences.
Indeed they do, Brother Petr. From what I understand, Fade, yet still a young man I believe, "tried on" numerous ideologies during his tenure at the helm of that board, the latest being the "post-moralist" as you mention. From what I had read I never took it too seriously, so who knows if he may be back again under a new ideology like the proverbial phoenix.
But you are right in that what he describes in his farewell opus is exactly the end result of said "post-moralism." Yes, ideas do have consequences and the bad ones (i.e. not of God) produce environments we don't really want to live in, so to speak.
Nevertheless, I really only see a couple or three members at the center of the storm in the threads you linked to. Coincidentally enough, I see a couple of names I remember from our past dramas here at OD. Kind of leaves me asking the question of whether the problem is board administrators, or a couple of active forum participants?
I did not fight with NeoNietzsche and Wintermute just because I enjoyed of it, but because I hoped that I might also have some intelligent audience out there that actually bothers to listen what I've got to say.
I did and concur with your stated opinion of your suspicions of what and who you were contending with over there. Well done, IMO. Stay true, Petr.
2004-10-02 20:01 | User Profile
It will be interesting to see how long Fade can keep from posting. In any event, we all wish him the best of luck.
2004-10-02 20:29 | User Profile
Fade and NeoNietzsche debated also on this thread,
[url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4168&page=3&pp=10[/url]
… and here you can see that Fade was not exaggerating when he talked about has-been mentalities, stuck in the past.
NN argues that Russia is going to be re-Sovietized, ally with Chinese and invade Western Europe again.
He also implies that the collapse of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s was in fact a part of an elaborate scheme to make West lay off their defense!
No, apparently he was not trying to be funny.
(Posted by FadeTheButcher)
[COLOR=Blue]The Morgenthau Plan was about de-industrialising Germany and reducing it to a divided and powerless agricultural society. Yet Germany today is one of the most highly industrialised and wealthiest countries in the world. In fact, as I pointed out to wintermute, by 1963, West Germany had a foreign trade volume second only to the United States. So answer the question: when are the Allies going to annihilate the Germans? [/COLOR]
(NEONIETZSCHE) [COLOR=Purple] ” Golitsyn explained in his latest and authoritative work, The Perestroika Deception, that the Soviets yet anticipate internal disorders in the West to eventually develop as a manifestation of the "internal contradictions" which plague "capitalist" regimes in Marxist theory. The Soviets hope then to exploit these disorders to the end of obtaining global geo-political supremacy.
We might reasonably anticipate the development of such disorders at the middle of the present century, based on present ethno-demographic trends. An aging native population confronted by and burdensomely dependent upon a youthful alien population is a recipe for disorder. Since the Soviets have succeeded with their strategic deception of the West to the extent of having completely eliminated a military frontier protecting the West, we may reasonably anticipate that they and their Chinese allies will walk tactical nuclear weapons into the vicinity of all vital Western facilities, including, of course, those in Germany (to address the question specifically).
The Allies will thus have annihilated Germany.”[/COLOR]
Then, a less dramatic example maybe, but still quite pitiful nostalgic cultic mentality shown by Wehrmacht (or Dr. Brandt, as he now calls himself), here:
(text magnified by me)
[url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3918&page=8&pp=10&highlight=pseudo-religious[/url]
[COLOR=DarkRed]“To Hitlers 55th Birthday the "Black Korps" published an article "He is our victory", which includes following passage: [SIZE=4]"Even if we knew that he were wrong, we would still follow him to the end....". [/SIZE]
“I have nothing to add to this. He is our savior and the Father of the Fatherland and in times of dispair and War we don't question him. He sacreficed his life for us. So who are we to pass judgement over him, just to apease some hypersensetive people, who probaly hide their anti-german feelings behind a mask of Anti-Hitlerism.”[/COLOR]
If you ask me, Dr. Brandt has no idea who his actual Savior really is.
Petr
2004-10-02 21:19 | User Profile
And as for Wintermute, his hatred of Christianity and Christians is getting out of hand.
Check out this thread if you want to hear some really annoying kvetching coming from a Gentile:
[url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?p=31808#post31808[/url]
I challenged him to withdraw one of his earlier, vicious collective smears about Christians and their mentality:
[COLOR=DarkRed]"You said, in essence, that most Christians are frustrated sexual perverts, and will not take it back. I see. "[/COLOR]
Instead of withdrawing it, he answered:
[COLOR=Purple]"Do you have a better explanation for how all the prolonged torture sessions with witches turned into lurid accounts of sex with the devil? They tortured those women - horribly - until they would start telling stories that complied with the monks own perverted imagination - the devil's engorged black icy penis and so forth.
You can see the same thing in the Satanic Abuse scare of the nineties. More Christers, locking children in a room for hours and hours, until they finally produce what the Christer wants to hear, namely tales of murder and sexual congress with horses.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Purple]Christians are sick, sick, sick. The ones who aren't - universally - intrepret the Bible in line with their native Indo European spiritual intuition, i.e. Platonism or some variant therof.
The ones who hold to resurrection of the body and eternal hellfire are nutjobs.
COLOR=Black[/COLOR]
Insatiably cruel, just like the Jewish monster they worship. I don't have to tell you this - you've read Jonathan Edwards. He is, like his 'god', a monster. Also see Calvin, Cromwell, the list goes on and on. "[/COLOR]
I think that he's been getting shriller and shriller - did he used to be more polite when he was still posting on this forum?
Petr
2004-10-02 22:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Fade threw in the towel at the Phora?
I can sympathize with that a great deal.[/QUOTE]
The problem with the Phora is the low average quality of posts. The problem with OD, frankly, is the low number of total posts. If one could have a site with a posting rate similar to that of the Phora, with a posting quality level similar to that of OD, then we'd all REALLY have something....
2004-10-02 22:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]IIt began when Fade started to seriously question the usual Nazi idea of Hitler as romantic hero, nay, a demi-god fooled to a war by evil international conspirators against his own will.
Which is stupid. As much as I admire Hitler, its pretty obvious he made some dreadful blunders. Chief among them, going to war with Britain (and thus almost inevitably, America) and the Soviet Union simultaneously. Very bad juju, that.
[QUOTE=Petr]Here it began: Fade (and I, among others) began to argue that Hitler made a really big mistake when he declared war on the USA
Interestingly enough, I rather got the impression, from what little I saw of the relevant threads, that Fade was criticizing Britain for "moralism," such as with regard to upholding its treaty obligation with Poland in 1939. By the same token, Hitler's declaration of war on the USA was partly inspired by his Pact of Steel with Japan (and Italy). The USA had been sinking German naval vessels since the summer of 1940, and the German Navy was under orders not to defend themselves against American attack. That should have remained the policy and Hitler should have left the American war to the Japnese alone.
2004-10-02 22:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr]NN argues that Russia is going to be re-Sovietized, ally with Chinese and invade Western Europe again.
While its so obvious that the reverse will be the case, i.e that Russia represents the last, best hope of what is commonly referred to here as Christendom.
[QUOTE=Petr]He also implies that the collapse of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s was in fact a part of an elaborate scheme to make West lay off their defense!
No, apparently he was not trying to be funny.
He more than just implied this. This idea was popular among a certain faction of righist, even paleo-con Republicans about 15 years ago (Howard Phillips cited it as one of his main reasons for abandoning the Reaganite GOP in favor of found the then-U.S. Taxpayers Party, at the time). I read an article in Chronicles that was sympathetic to this notion in the last couple pof years. Needless to say, saner elements (not intended as a criticism of Chronicles) have shelved this idea quietly and abrubtly. Its positively lame.
2004-10-02 22:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr][COLOR=DarkRed]"You said, in essence, that most Christians are frustrated sexual perverts, and will not take it back. I see. "[/COLOR]
Instead of withdrawing it, he answered:
[COLOR=Purple]"Do you have a better explanation for how all the prolonged torture sessions with witches turned into lurid accounts of sex with the devil? They tortured those women - horribly - until they would start telling stories that complied with the monks own perverted imagination - the devil's engorged black icy penis and so forth.
You can see the same thing in the Satanic Abuse scare of the nineties. More Christers, locking children in a room for hours and hours, until they finally produce what the Christer wants to hear, namely tales of murder and sexual congress with horses.[/COLOR]Petr[/QUOTE]
Show me a movement that has been around for about 2000 years and presently has over a billion adherents (admittedly, there are no others, but you take my point I'm sure) that doesn't have some pretty wacky folks on its margins. Such events are a sad inevitability within any movement of such historical and demographic scope. Even a militant Atheist should be able to see that.
2004-10-02 22:49 | User Profile
And here we have Wintermute furiously kvetching at Fade – seriously, can you understand what he is so upset about?
He does sound very angry:
[COLOR=DarkRed]- “I have never, not even in wrangling with Petr, encountered such naked mendacity online as I have in your responses, Fade.
It is plain to me now, that the Phora can never be 'cleaned up', as it is rotten at its core: you.”[/COLOR]
Can YOU SEE anything in here that YOU would have called “naked mendacity”?
[url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4078&page=4&pp=10&highlight=extended[/url]
This whinefest may well have been final straw that pushed Fade over the edge, for he made his last comments (before his VERY sudden, out-of-the-blue farewell address) on this thread.
Petr
2004-10-02 23:04 | User Profile
By the way Kevin, here's my BIBLE-BASED position on racial issues, if you haven't already seen it:
[COLOR=Purple] " Personally, as a Christian, I believe Biblically that human races are basically extended families.
[COLOR=Black](That's exactly how the Old Testament describes the birth of nations, with patriarchs and all. For example, Greeks are referred to as "sons of Javan" in the OT.
Even many Darwinian scholars have come to realize how well the concept of an "extended family" describes the term "race".
One of the biggest Mexican prison gangs in California is called "La Nuestra Familia" - "our family") [/COLOR]
Taking a stand for your race, and defending it from invaders, is therefore as just and natural as defending or taking a stand for your immediate family members, even if you wouldn't agree with them on everything.
Pointless harassment of other families/races that aren't threatening your own is not acceptable. "[/COLOR]
And the Bible does give deep importance to supporting your own:
[COLOR=DarkRed]1 Timothy 5:8:
"But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. "[/COLOR]
You may want to a remember this point if you need to convince some White Christians that it is not sinful in itself to take a stand for the interests of your extended racial family.
Petr
2004-10-03 01:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE]I think that Fade was beginning to feel some genuine uncomfort with that "post-moralism" he had been peddling[/QUOTE]
I doubt that. Fade's chosen avatar was and has been for some time, the charming and completely conscienceless seral killer from AMERICAN PSYCHO. Prior to that, it was Caligula....another sweetheart "not of God".
Nobody [I]made[/I] him adopt these icons. He wore them like a punk-rocker would a Clash button...proudly.
I find myself chuckling at anyone who believes for a minute that Fade's melodramatic exit "exposes" someone like Neo. If ever two guys were peas from the same pod, it's those two. Neo is erudite but as didactic as a sledgehammer. Fade likewise has always had that tone of [I]Nietzschean Superman indulgently allowing his inferiors to speak[/I] about him. 'Mute's got much more of a sense of humor but of late has been much more pugnacious than he used to be.
If you [I]really [/I] look at those threads Petr's bookmarked, you'll see that the bad blood begins rising when the argument shifts to the subject of FDR and Conrad Black. I realize Wintermute is Absolute Evil around this place these days, and that no grass will grow where he stands, but his position on that subject was no different that that espoused by 90% of OD's membership, even in this new age of piety. Perhaps you might get a better idea of Why Who Went Where (if you even care) by sampling some of the 'debate' threads [I]preceding [/I] Neo & 'Mute's relatively recent arrival; Fade was generally (over)matched against one semiliterate junior-college leftist/high-school Nazi hobbyist after another, all of them easily overwhelmed; every clash of wills a slam-dunk, pretty much. This time, he was matched not against his betters per se, but rather his mirror images: two guys who dig in and [I]won't [/I] let go, [I]won't [/I] cry 'uncle', [I]won't [/I] give you the last word [U]ever[/U] if they can help it.
It promised to be - even for the Internet! - an excruciatingly long and abysmally tedious refighting of World War 2 for what must be the 10, 000, 000th time - and for that reason alone I salute Fade for sparing humanity [I]another[/I] one of those.
But I'm forced to make one of my infamous cameos to correct the astigmatism that seems always to affect Petr: I've seen nothing to indicate Fade has changed [I]any part of his ideology[/I]. He just chose discretion over valor this time. And it should be pointed out that what OD exiles post there have only done so, intermittently, for the past few months. The VAST MAJORITY of teenage Huns (of the right [I]and [/I] left) plaguing that board were collected and cultivated by Fade himself in the years previous. After all it IS his board - surely [I]some [/I] part of its overall tone reflects on him, no?
I know it's vitally important for Petr to use any avenue available to him in which to 'get back' at Neo & 'Mute, safe from any return volleys they might fire in response. But this is really more a case of Superman catching a glimpse of kryptonite in Luthor's hand and changing back into Clark Kent until more favorable conditions ensue. [I]Nobody [/I] involved in this fracas is rethinking their agnosticism in the slightest; sorry.
2004-10-03 10:09 | User Profile
[COLOR=Red]- “But I'm forced to make one of my infamous cameos to correct the astigmatism that seems always to affect Petr: I've seen nothing to indicate Fade has changed any part of his ideology.”[/COLOR]
You can always hope, right?
[COLOR=Red]- “I know it's vitally important for Petr to use any avenue available to him in which to 'get back' at Neo & 'Mute, safe from any return volleys they might fire in response.”[/COLOR]
Quit thinking about these two as some kind of unbeatable debaters.
In reality, they are much closer to this archetype:
[COLOR=Purple]“Stone Deaf is one of the few truly invincible Warriors because nothing can shatter his impenetrable armor of non recognition. His primitive battle strategy is maddening effective; he simply refuses to acknowledge any arguments he doesn't like. Kung-Fu Master can hammer away with devastating blows, Cyber Sisters can screech in full throat and Profundus Maximus can expound until he drops, but Stone Deaf remains utterly oblivious as he advances his dogged and often repetitious attacks. In the early stages of battle a wide array of Warriors will fling themselves at Stone Deaf, but inevitably they fall back exhausted or lose interest when they see that their best weapons have no effect. His only real enemy is Admin, who has the power to eject him from the discussion forum.”
[url]http://www.winternet.com/~mikelr/flame78.html[/url][/COLOR]
Look how delusional Wintermute claimed, on Fade’s farewell thread, that he had taken “the last word” with me on many threads –
[url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4189&page=4&pp=10[/url]
but here he finally admits that he is “bored now” and that it was actually I who took those last words.
[url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?p=31808#post31808[/url]
[COLOR=Red]- “Nobody involved in this fracas is rethinking their agnosticism in the slightest; sorry.”[/COLOR]
a) I am trying to plant seeds that may grow up later, and b) Who says that conversion was the only thing I was supposed to achieve? Famous Christian evangelist, John Wesley aptly said a good preacher is supposed to EITHER convert people OR to make them angry. Lousy preacher is the one that cannot do either, but leaves people without any reaction. Paradoxically even coldness is better than being lukewarm.
[COLOR=Navy]“So because thou art lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spew thee out of my mouth.” (Revelation 3:16)[/COLOR]
Petr
2004-10-04 04:44 | User Profile
(By the way; Fade has returned. Apparently a little break was all that he needed...)
Oh boy. NeoNietzsche has now started to to preach his "USSR's collapse was faked" thesis at full force:
Check out this thread if you want to a visit a strange alternate universe:
[url]http://www.thephora.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4078&page=9&pp=10[/url]
Excerpts from the la-la land:
[COLOR=Purple]" So desperate has the CIA been to cover up Soviet deception operations from the public that the agency has resorted to a full smear campaign against Golitsyn and the now-deceased Angleton. In his 1984 book, New Lies For Old, Golitsyn drew on his personal knowledge from within the KGB to predict that Department D would orchestrate the "death" of Communism, starting no later than 1989. The Berlin Wall would be torn down, Solidarity would be allowed to achieve power in Polish elections, the Soviet Union would break up, and a crisis would be manufactured in Yugoslavia. Point for point, Golitsyn predicted the events of Europe since 1989 with chilling accuracy, and warned that the Soviets would be using the deception to prepare for a takeover of Western Europe.
...
"But in light of the evidence that the CIA is riddled with Communist spies, it is little wonder the agency strains so hard to convince Americans that Communism is truly "dead.""[/COLOR]
NN's reputation as a no-nonsense scholar should be kicked to its grave right now.
Petr
2004-10-04 09:37 | User Profile
Hello Petr.
2004-10-04 10:40 | User Profile
Hello yourself.
Petr
2004-10-04 10:47 | User Profile
Hi Fade. I'm pleased to see you here.
Walter
2004-10-04 14:18 | User Profile
(By the way; Fade has returned. Apparently a little break was all that he needed...)
There's more plot turns and drama over at that place than in 3 seasons of One Life to Live. :)
Hey Fade,
I can sympathize with your situation, believe me. You should never have listened to those who started whispering in your ear trying to influence you to change the focus of your board a few months ago. I think in hindsight now you can see that they were poison.
For what it's worth, do it how you want to do it or ultimately you won't want any part of it. Good luck and kind regards.
2004-10-04 17:49 | User Profile
Some basic info about what is going on over there that I wrote last night:
I addressed this issue the other day. il ragno is not a staff member of The Phora so he is usually not a witness to all the constant bickering and infighting that goes on there, in the Moderator's Forum as well as on Yahoo, nor does he have to constantly deal with it. I am sure Texas Dissident can relate to that -- the enormous frustration and patience it takes to deal with unreasonable people, egomaniacs, the pettiness, and the ceaseless bickering that goes on in between factions of mutually hostile and irrational people who cannot be reconciled. It is enough to drive any sane person up the wall, given enough time. Classic example: all the whining over Nordicism. But I suppose that comes with the job of having to be in charge of a forum.
You can add to that the recent transformation of The Phora into the Third Reich which, in my view, has utterly poisoned the atmosphere there beyond repair. It started with the persistant calls of Dr. Brandt to exterminate the Poles and Americans (something I was never really personally comfortable with). It progressed from there to friedrich braun's and Stribog's desire to see the British miscegenated out of existence. Recently, the argument has been made in dozens of threads that Adolf Hitler was the victim of a massive worldwide international conspiracy of 'Warmasters' who were out to get the Germans. And to top it all off, NeoNietzsche and wintermute are now claiming that the Western Allies inflicted a Holocaust upon Germany after the war, in which 10 million Germans lost their lives.
In support of such absurd arguments, which no serious scholar (or any reasonable person) in the world takes seriously, there has been an absolute deluge of the crudest propaganda, the most ridiculous conspiracy theories, and the most laughable pseudoscholarship I have ever seen. In fact, as Petr pointed out, the argument is actually being made that the Soviet Union faked its own demise. Who knows, perhaps the Third Reich faked its own end too? mugwort (from the Liberty Forum, of course, CIA/ZOG New World Order central) has also argued that Great Britain, under the control of International Jewry ZOG, declared war upon Nazi Germany to advance Jewish interests. But not only that, these Jews were also the entire time plotting to overthrow the same government they controlled in order to cover their tracks!
The new Phora was supposed to be full of intelligent people. Now whenever I go there I have to look over my shoulder to see if the fellow next to me is not wearing a tin foil hat (or better yet, dressing up in some ridiculous costume, in order to fight WW2 again over the internet). Its not that difficult to debunk their nonsense. That's easy, as anyone can see from my posts there. It is, however, profoundly boring and a gross waste of my time. So why bother?
I consider myself to be a tolerant person. I have a high level of tolerance for people who disagree with me, for extremist positions, for bullshit and pettiness in general. But every person sooner or later reaches his limit. I have reached that point.
2004-10-04 18:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=FadeTheButcher]And to top it all off, NeoNietzsche and wintermute are now claiming that the Western Allies inflicted a Holocaust upon Germany after the war, in which 10 million Germans lost their lives.
This is known as the Expulsion Terrors and it resulted in the deaths of 1.5-2 million innocent German civilians. That 10 million figure apparently being peddled by Neo and Winter is bogus. Still, shouldn't the Expulsion Terrors at least have been heard of at all by ordinary peope (or perhaps the Soviet extermination of 8-12 million Ukranians), considering how everyone knows the Holocaust story backwards and forwards?
[QUOTE=FadeTheButcher]In fact, as Petr pointed out, the argument is actually being made that the Soviet Union faked its own demise.
I believe Srdja Trifkovic of Chronicles magazine is one of the last adherents to this goofball idea.
[QUOTE=FadeTheButcher]Who knows, perhaps the Third Reich faked its own end too?
As a matter of fact, there's a local college radio station personality (he used to be on the Pacifica radio network, but they kicked him off due to his obnoxious personality, I believe) here in the S.F. Bay Area, Dave Emory, who calls himself "an anti-fascist researcher," who has been vocally promoting pretty much that thesis for over 20 years. Despite his apparent dementia, he does come up with some **VERY[/B] interesting info from time to time. He's the first guy I ever heard refer to the terrorist threat potential of Osama bin-Laden, back in friggin' 1993, which ain't too bad.
2004-10-04 18:44 | User Profile
[COLOR=DarkRed] - " I believe Srdja Trifkovic of Chronicles magazine is one of the last adherents to this goofball idea. "[/COLOR]
Seriously? His articles on Islam seemed to be a work of a perfectly reasonable man, IMHO.
[COLOR=DarkRed] - "... the Soviet extermination of 8-12 million Ukranians), ..."[/COLOR]
Actually, I think that credible estimates for the Ukrainian death toll in the 1932-33 famine range between 4 to 6 million.
Petr
2004-10-04 18:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr][COLOR=DarkRed] - " I believe Srdja Trifkovic of Chronicles magazine is one of the last adherents to this goofball idea. "[/COLOR]
Seriously? His articles on Islam seemed to be a work of a perfectly reasonable man, IMHO.[/QUOTE]
He's a great writer with a lot of wisdom and great ideas. He's also a little eccentric where the Soviet Union is concerned. We all have our weaknesses.
2004-10-04 18:50 | User Profile
[COLOR=DarkRed] - "We all have our weaknesses."[/COLOR]
Ain't that a fact.
Petr
2004-10-04 20:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=FadeTheButcher]I am sure Texas Dissident can relate to that -- the enormous frustration and patience it takes to deal with unreasonable people, egomaniacs, the pettiness, and the ceaseless bickering that goes on in between factions of mutually hostile and irrational people who cannot be reconciled. It is enough to drive any sane person up the wall, given enough time.
Uh, yes. It certainly is. And that's really an understatement Fade, as I'm sure you well know. You really have to just get away for some time to clear your head and that's a lesson it took me a couple of years to learn. Plus, it helps to do a reality check every once in a while and remind yourself that at bottom it's just a bulletin board, utterly unknown by 99.9999% of the populace.
You can add to that the recent transformation of The Phora into the Third Reich which, in my view, has utterly poisoned the atmosphere there beyond repair. It started with the persistant calls of Dr. Brandt to exterminate the Poles and Americans (something I was never really personally comfortable with). It progressed from there to friedrich braun's and Stribog's desire to see the British miscegenated out of existence. Recently, the argument has been made in dozens of threads that Adolf Hitler was the victim of a massive worldwide international conspiracy of 'Warmasters' who were out to get the Germans. And to top it all off, NeoNietzsche and wintermute are now claiming that the Western Allies inflicted a Holocaust upon Germany after the war, in which 10 million Germans lost their lives.
Ahem...I'll make no comment here except maybe some that didn't believe me will now believe you.
The new Phora was supposed to be full of intelligent people. Now whenever I go there I have to look over my shoulder to see if the fellow next to me is not wearing a tin foil hat (or better yet, dressing up in some ridiculous costume, in order to fight WW2 again over the internet). Its not that difficult to debunk their nonsense. That's easy, as anyone can see from my posts there. It is, however, profoundly boring and a gross waste of my time. So why bother?
Lesson learned: the internet nazis and various other sundry and actively on-line wackos will suck the very life out your board.
I consider myself to be a tolerant person. I have a high level of tolerance for people who disagree with me, for extremist positions, for bullshit and pettiness in general. But every person sooner or later reaches his limit. I have reached that point.[/QUOTE]
I have felt your pain. Do what you gotta do. You may well tank your board, maybe not. One things for sure, you'll be a great deal more sane and happier to visit the site you pay for.
Good luck and say hello to Alabama for me. Carbon Hill to be exact.
2004-10-05 06:35 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Ahem...I'll make no comment here except maybe some that didn't believe me will now believe you.
Lesson learned: the internet nazis and various other sundry and actively on-line wackos will suck the very life out your board.[/QUOTE]
I think that it proves that every successful board has to have a tendency - broad agreement on basic general directions. Without that, you'll get chaos and nothing will ever be accomplished (unless endless jawing about whacked-out ideas is your ambition).
But there has to be some balance to that. If you narrow the ideological focus too much, then you get a very boring place where everybody basically says "ditto" and "yeah, that's right" to each other.
I think that Tex has made a valiant attempt to strike that balance.
This is a paleocon board. It's traditionalist Christian at its core. That's the basic tendency. In order to avoid chaos, sustained attacks on Christianity by people of other religions (pagans, Nazis, Hinuds) cannot be tolerated, as this incites visceral emotion and renders reasoned discussions impossible. Tolerance of sustained and often scatological attacks on the religion of the majority yields the very chaos our friend Fade has encountered on his board.
On the other hand, when Ragman, Fade and others left us, OD tended strongly toward the merely devotional. Let's face it, it's a tad dull without their input.
I think that Tex's ground rules provide a workable framework for our discussions. I regret that Il Ragno and others saw Tex's guidelines as unacceptable limitations on their freedom of expression, which I think are not overly onerous. Some limits are required to avoid the chaos we experienced here on OD and that drove Fade from his mind on the Phora. Indeed, I would say that the (very broad) limits Tex set down are the prerequisites of ordered and fruitful discussions.
I hope that those who left will return to OD, the board to which I remain fully committed.
Walter
2004-10-05 14:54 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]I hope that those who left will return to OD, the board to which I remain fully committed.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for that, Walter. I think there was a good deal of confusion when several members left, most of which I was never able to straighten out despite my best effort to do so in some cases. Matter of fact I'm still burning from a couple of scorching emails I received back then. Still got 'em saved, for posterity's sake I guess.
Nevertheless, for what it's worth I'll say it again here -- I never wanted anyone to leave this board or stop posting. There was really just a handful of seemingly demon-possessed members who did nothing but try and bash Christianity like Johnny One-Note and that is what I was trying to correct and settle once and for all as I thought it was detracting from the entire board. At least it was for me as I didn't even have the desire to participate here anymore myself. As I said, guys like Leland Gaunt, NN and the net Nazis will just suck the life out of a board. Maybe those that discounted me saying that because I came from a Christian perspective will believe it now that Fade confirms the same.
Members like madrussian, il ragno, AY and Angler I always enjoyed and never wanted to see them go. But in the end, what can you do?
2004-10-05 15:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Members like madrussian, il ragno, AY and Angler I always enjoyed and never wanted to see them go. But in the end, what can you do?[/QUOTE]
AntiYuppie has apparently left The Phora as well (his Phora presence was one of the main reasons I began posting there too). If anyone hears where he may have gone, please advise; he's long been one of my personal favorites.
2004-10-06 01:48 | User Profile
Raina chased him off.
2004-10-06 20:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Raina chased him off.[/QUOTE]
That does appear to be the case, Bardamu. It's just crazy.
2004-10-06 20:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]That does appear to be the case, Bardamu. It's just crazy.[/QUOTE]
Maybe he should ask Fade to pull all of his posts.
2004-10-13 15:28 | User Profile
madrussian, Angler and Ruffin,
Are y'all ever going to come back or have all the bridges been burned down between us?