← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Walter Yannis
Thread ID: 14884 | Posts: 49 | Started: 2004-09-01
2004-09-01 09:42 | User Profile
[URL=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040901/ap_on_re_eu/russia_school_seizure&cid=518&ncid=716]Yahoo![/URL]
By JIM HEINTZ, Associated Press Writer
MOSCOW - Armed attackers, some wearing suicide-bomb belts, seized a school Wednesday in a Russian region bordering Chechnya (news - web sites) and were holding hundreds of children and adults hostage, news reports said. The assault came a day after a suicide bomber killed 10 people in Moscow.
The seizure took place on the first day of the Russian school year, when it was likely that a large number of parents had accompanied their children to class. Reports said the raid in the North Ossetia region began just after a ceremony marking the day began.
Both the school attack and the Moscow bombing appeared to be the work of Chechen rebels or their sympathizers, but there was no evidence of any direct link. The two strikes came just a week after two Russian planes carrying 90 people crashed almost simultaneously in what officials also say were terrorist bombings.
"In essence, war has been declared on us, where the enemy is unseen and there is no front," Russian Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov said, according to the Interfax-Military News Agency. He spoke before the seizure.
Gunfire broke out after the raid and at least three teachers and two police officers were wounded, said Andrei Polyansky, a police spokesman for southern Russia.
The attackers warned they would blow up the school if police tried to storm it and demanded talks with regional officials and a well-known pediatrician, Leonid Roshal, who had aided hostages during the seizure of a Moscow theater in 2002, news reports said. The Interfax news agency reported that the hostage-takers released a woman who carried out a note with their demands, which have not been made public.
The ITAR-Tass news agency, citing regional emergency officials, said about 400 people including some 200 children were being held captive.
There were 17 attackers, both male and female, and the gang included some who were wearing suicide-bomb belts, Interfax said, citing Ismel Shaov, a regional spokesman for the Federal Security Service.
In television footage from outside the school in Beslan, a town about 10 miles north of the regional capital of Vladikavkaz, men in camouflage with heavy-caliber machine guns took up positions on the perimeter and other men in civilian dress with light automatic rifles paced nervously.
At one point, a girl of about age 7 in a floral print dress and a red bow in her hair streaked around a corner apparently after fleeing from the school, followed by an older woman.
The attack was the latest in a string of violence that has tormented Russians and plagued the government of President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites), who came to power in 2000 vowing to crush the Chechen rebels but has been largely unable to do so.
Terrorism fears in Russia had risen markedly following the suicide bombing outside a Moscow subway station on Tuesday night that killed 10 people and wounded more than 50.
A militant Muslim web site published a statement claiming responsibility for the bombing on behalf of the "Islambouli Brigades," a group that also claimed responsibility for the airliner crashes. The veracity of the statements could not immediately be confirmed.
The statement said Tuesday's bombing was a blow against Putin, "who slaughtered Muslims time and again." Putin has refused to negotiate with rebels in predominantly Muslim Chechnya who have fought Russian forces for most of the past decade, saying they must be wiped out.
Mayor Yuri Luzhkov told reporters near the Rizhskaya subway stop in northern Moscow that the female bomber was walking toward the station but saw two police officers stationed there, turned around "and decided to destroy herself in a crowd of people."
The blast tore through a heavily trafficked area between the subway station and a nearby department store. Doctors worked through the night to save the lives of others who were severely wounded by the bomb that officials said was packed with bolts to maximize casualties.
Several female suicide bombers allegedly connected with the rebels have caused carnage in Moscow and other Russian cities in a series of attacks in recent years.
Many of the women bombers are believed to be so-called "black widows," who have lost husbands or male relatives in the fighting that has gripped Chechnya for most of the past decade. Investigators of the plane crashes are seeking information about two Chechen women believed to have been aboard ââ¬â one on each plane.
Police spokesman Valery Gribakin said hours after the blast that police patrols were being increased and document checks stepped up, and that security at subway and train stations and airports was being boosted. However, no increase of uniformed officers was immediately apparent at subway stations during the morning rush on Wednesday.
The attacks bracketed Sunday's presidential elections in Chechnya, a Kremlin-baked move aimed at undermining support for the insurgents by establishing a modicum of civil order in the war-shattered republic.
Fears that the Chechen rebels aimed to export their fight outside the small republic's borders rose in June after insurgents launched a coordinated series of attacks on police facilities in neighboring Ingushetia, in which more than 90 people were killed.
In a videotape released several days after the attack, a man appearing to be warlord Shamil Basayev claimed responsibility for the assaults and said his fighters had seized huge quantities of arms from police arsenals.
In 1995, Chechen rebels led by Basayev seized a hospital in the southern Russian city of Budyonnovsk, taking some 2,000 people hostage. The six-day standoff ended with a fierce Russian police assault. Some 100 people died in the incident.
2004-09-01 10:16 | User Profile
Obviously this is a response to the injustices committed by Israel against the Palestinians. *
(Note: message coated in heavy layer of sarcasm) *
2004-09-01 11:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hadassah]Obviously this is a response to the injustices committed by Israel against the Palestinians. *
(Note: message coated in heavy layer of sarcasm) *[/QUOTE]
Sarcasm noted, but you should read some more history.
Russia has been at war with the Chechens for the past 200 years - long before Israel was even a twinkle in Herzl's eye.
Tolstoy has a rollicking great novella on this called "Prisoner of the Caucus" - which I highly recommend to you. I would be pleased to discuss it with you at length after you've finished your upcoming move to Tel Aviv.
Walter
2004-09-01 15:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]Sarcasm noted, but you should read some more history.
Russia has been at war with the Chechens for the past 200 years - long before Israel was even a twinkle in Herzl's eye. I've read a great deal of history, so I am well aware of these facts. Hence my sarcasm. I was lampooning those who say the Muslims were sweet innocent dears before the evil Israelis came along and ticked 'em off.
Novel recommendation duly noted. I think I read the Cliff Notes for that one back in college. It's a fine start, no? :)
Hadassah
2004-09-01 16:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hadassah]I've read a great deal of history, so I am well aware of these facts. Hence my sarcasm. I was lampooning those who say the Muslims were sweet innocent dears before the evil Israelis came along and ticked 'em off. [/QUOTE] What about those who don't think the Muslims or the Israelis are sweet, innocent dears?
2004-09-01 16:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]What about those who don't think the Muslims or the Israelis are sweet, innocent dears?[/QUOTE] They hold a much more realistic view.
2004-09-01 17:00 | User Profile
According to Hadassah "I am a pillar in my community" hummmmmmm, must be a pillar of salt.
I am glad that this "lady" is here, that way everyone can see what the Jews thinks of the Christians and of the Goys,,,,,, hope that everyone here stay on thir toes.
I wonder if Hadassah is only one person or a collection of Jews pretending to one only one,,,,,"by deception we shall rule"
2004-09-01 17:18 | User Profile
Ponce, I understand your concerns, but thus far, Hadassah has been completely civil, and I suggest that we be the same.
2004-09-01 19:28 | User Profile
Isn't this just lovely. A thread concerning unspeakable horrors being visited upon innocent children is hijacked by a jew and turned, forthwith into a diatribe against people who find jews somewhat less endearing than horse manure. But the worst part is that nobody called him/her on it.
Frankly, I am growing ever more weary of hearing jews crying into their matzoh meal that everybody hates them. They are probably the most accomplished whiners and cryers in the world - [COLOR=Sienna]but they never ask; why?[/COLOR]
2004-09-01 20:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=OPERA96]A thread concerning unspeakable horrors being visited upon innocent children is hijacked by a jew and turned, forthwith into a diatribe against people who find jews somewhat less endearing than horse manure. How do you figure? I haven't ranted against antisemites on this thread. I just criticized the theory that Israel is the primary cause of Muslim terrorism. It is simply not supported by the facts.
Frankly, I am growing ever more weary of hearing jews crying into their matzoh meal that everybody hates them. When have I done so? In fact, I think philosemitism is much more common than antisemitism, particularly in America. This is one reason nazism is unlikely to get anywhere here.
The negative media coverage of Israel is **antiwhite** more than antisemitic. It is part and parcel of an **antiracist** mythology. This worldview holds that white colonial states are "oppressing" the colored peoples of the world. This is why most of the western opposition to Israel comes from the antiwhite left, not some (largely mythical) antisemitic right. Even the supposedly "far right" nazis, IMHO, have nothing in common with the traditional American right.
2004-09-02 05:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hadassah]They hold a much more realistic view.[/QUOTE] Clearly you are unfamiliar with the range of views that exist within paleo-conservatism. Chronicles and many of the ultra-right (paleo) religious publications are decidedly unsympathetic toward Islamism. For me there is an infinite gap between the issues regarding Israel and her policies, and the murderous, Satanic religion of Islam.
2004-09-02 13:45 | User Profile
This just in from [URL=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040902/ap_on_re_eu/russia_school_seizure_57]Yahoo![/URL]
Militants Release 26 Hostages in Russia
MOSCOW - Militants released 26 women and children Thursday from the school in southern Russia where they are holding more than 350 hostages, the rescue operation's headquarters said.
Lev Dzugayev, an aide to the North Ossetian president, announced the release of three women and three infants. It was not immediately clear if those were counted among the 26 released hostages reported minutes later by the rescue-operation headquarters.
Dzugayev called the release "the first success" and expressed hope for further progress in negotiations with the captors that went through the night and into Thursday.
As he announced the release, a crowd of hostages' relatives and friends who have been keeping vigil at the school since the standoff began swarmed around him, trying to find out who was freed.
An Associated Press Television News reporter saw two women and at least three children, the children in the soldiers' arms, and APTN footage showed five women and three children. There was no immediate explanation for the discrepancy.
Russian television showed camouflage-clad men carrying babies, one wrapped in a blanket and one without a shirt.
Regional parliamentary spokeswoman Fatima Kabalova said that several elderly women and a group of children were released, but gave no numbers and did not indicate whether she was referring to the infants released. She said the releases were not announced publicly to avoid a crush from media and anxious relatives.
2004-09-02 13:53 | User Profile
I really don't know what the Russians can do about this situation, and about the Chechen situation more generally.
Certainly, the Russians are morally empowered to undertake the severest of actions. I suggest that the Russians deport all Chechens residing outside Chechnya to Chechnya immediately, and then force Chechnya from the Federation. Build a big fence around it. If Chechnya then attacks Russia as in August 2000, then the harshest response imaginable may be indicated.
I join Hadassah in viewing Islam as my enemy, but gently point out that Judaism has proven to be an even more lethal enemy than the religion of Mohammed. Both the Jews and the Muslims are enemies of Christ and of Christendom, and both must be removed from our body politic completely.
All Jews must go to Israel. All blacks must go to Africa. All Muslims must return to whatever Islamic country will take them.
Amen and amen.
Walter
2004-09-02 13:54 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Hadassah]The negative media coverage of Israel is antiwhite more than antisemitic. It is part and parcel of an antiracist mythology. This worldview holds that white colonial states are "oppressing" the colored peoples of the world. This is why most of the western opposition to Israel comes from the antiwhite left, not some (largely mythical) antisemitic right.[/QUOTE] You're absolutely bang on the shekel there Hadassah and deserving of a cigar, or a least a free a copy of Michael Moore's upcoming remake: Der ewige Jude. It is not often one sees the raison d'être of the neo-con movement summed up so succinctly. Aren't you supposed to sidestep the issue a bit more, or at least drone on about the merits of 'colour-blindness' beforehand? Frankly I'm surprised more Jews haven't jumped off the far-left's cattle-car.
Incidentally, I once attended a university debate on "Israel's wall of hate" where even the pro-wall speaker was anti-Israeli (policy); his argument consisted of humorous 'pro' points designed to make Israel look either ridiculous or malicious. During the following debate on immigration, I thought one of the more excitable female anti-racist speakers was going to collapse writhing on the floor while speaking in tongues, it was a toss of a coin whether to call an ambulance or an exorcist.
2004-09-02 13:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]Ponce, I understand your concerns, but thus far, Hadassah has been completely civil, and I suggest that we be the same.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
2004-09-02 14:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis] I suggest that the Russians deport all Chechens residing outside Chechnya to Chechnya immediately, and then force[?] Chechnya from the Federation [/QUOTE] I donââ¬â¢t follow Walter, as I understand it the troubles started when Chechnya tried to leave the Russian (i.e. Slavic, Orthodox Christian) Federation. If the Russia government insists on clinging to Czarist/Soviet multicultural legacies then theyââ¬â¢re inviting trouble.
2004-09-02 15:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]I donââ¬â¢t follow Walter, as I understand it the troubles started when Chechnya tried to leave the Russian (i.e. Slavic, Orthodox Christian) Federation. If the Russia government insists on clinging to Czarist/Soviet multicultural legacies then theyââ¬â¢re inviting trouble.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I have similar questions na Gaeil. I'd guess Chechnya must be sitting atop a sea of oil and is of serious value to Putin & Co. Otherwise I can't understand why the Russian government would want to retain that piece of wasteland. Set it free ÃÂ la Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, etc. complete with it's own tinpot dictator and let the place rot, as long as the terror stops. If it doesn't stop simply annihilate the place and the people.
2004-09-03 05:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]I donââ¬â¢t follow Walter, as I understand it the troubles started when Chechnya tried to leave the Russian (i.e. Slavic, Orthodox Christian) Federation. If the Russia government insists on clinging to Czarist/Soviet multicultural legacies then theyââ¬â¢re inviting trouble.[/QUOTE]
Checnhya fought a long war beginning in the early 1990's to break away from the Russian Federation. President Yeltsin handled it in a most hamfisted manner. There were other influences there that we can only dimly glimpse, including Israel, Boris Berezovsky (or do I repeat myself?), a strategic oil pipeline, and corrupt Russian generals.
Anyway, shortly after the 1996 presidential election, Yeltsin appointed the now-deceased Alexander Lebed as envoy to Chechnya, who tried to end the war by granting Checnhya de facto independence, with final status deferred. Note that Checnhya at this point was for all intents and purposes an independent country.
Checnhya decended further into the abyss after this, with the slave trade running rampant, kidnapping of Russians for ransom, the drug trade, and of course the oil pipeline as a wild card in the whole thing.
Then in August 2000, shortly after Putin became president of Russia, the Chechens did an almost unimaginable thing by attacking the Russian Federation. They launched a major military incursion into Russian Dagestan, hoping that the Muslim Dagestanis would rally to their side and that Chechnya could thereby gain access to the Caspian and a water border with the Islamic Republic of Iran.
But, the Dagestanis didn't buy it. Actually, I know several Dagestanis, and if there's one group of people on this Earth they really detest its the Chechens. Heck, all the Caucus Mountains people hate the Chechens. One Dagestani friend told me that after the Chechens returned to Chechnya under Kryuschev (you will recall that Stalin deported them all to Kazakhstan and beyond at the beginning of WWII as they were openly siding with Hitler) they would launch bride and cattle raids into his village in Dagestan. This is why, by the way, he has Chechen relatives, a fact he's not particularly pleased about. I can't understand how the Chechens could have even imagined anybody else would relish the thought of living under their rule.
The Chechens are just a problematic people. They consider manual labor beneath their dignity, and insist on holding slaves to toil. The Chechen mafia is a very dangerous thing. They're like the the worst of the Sicilians - a strong tendency to peacock show but without the cultural achievements of the Sicilians.
Anyway, after Chechnya attacked Dagestan, Putin (and Dagestani volunteers) went in there with guns ablazing and wiped out the Chechen army in the filed. Putin also - it seems pretty clear - just had the secret police hunt them down and secretly shoot hundreds (thousands?) of key political actors and so forth. I think that most Chechens now, after their baleful experience with Chechen home rule, and after confronting the reality of concentrated and determined Russian strength, are willing to accept a large measure of autonomy within the Russian Federation, albeit very grudgingly.
But that doesn't mean the problems will end. It's just a question of time before they try it again. It's also clear what sort of scum these Chechen terrorists are. And despite the fact that these pigs take little children and school teachers hostage, they are secretly cheered on by the Chechen population. Like I said, the Chechens are just a problem. And they also have one of the highest fertility rates in the world, even as the Slavs have dismally low birthrates. Russia cannot allow that situation to continue for long.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn has long called for Russia to do as I suggest - build a fence around the place, send all Chechens residing in Russia there, and kick it out of the the Russian Federation. I simply add that if Chechnya attacks Russia again, then Russia should simply terminate with extreme prejudice.
Walter
2004-09-03 10:00 | User Profile
More breaking news on [URL=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040903/ap_on_re_eu/russia_school_seizure&cid=518&ncid=716]Yahoo![/URL]
Children Brought Out of Russia School
4 minutes ago
BESLAN, Russia - Soldiers shepherded children, many of them wounded and only in their underwear, away from a school where militants had taken hundreds of people hostage in southern Russia, as explosions and gunfire were heard from the building.
The Interfax news agency said that the school's roof had collapsed and militants were shelling and firing from the building. It had earlier reported that a group of about 30 women and children broke out of the school.
It wasn't clear what led to the latest gunfire or if a major assault underway to free the hundreds of hostages from the building. Armed soldiers were seen rushing toward the school, which was cordoned off and out of sight.
Russian officials had been in negotiations with the militants since they had seized the building Wednesday. There were conflicting reports of the number of hostages, with official saying about 350 and people among a small group freed on Wednesday saying there were about 1,500.
Two helicopters hovered overhead and several wounded were taken from the scene, some bloodied and on stretchers. Many of the children were only partly clothed because of the stifling heat in the gymnasium where they had been held since the militants took the building.
2004-09-03 12:26 | User Profile
This just in from [URL=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040903/ap_on_re_eu/russia_school_seizure&cid=518&ncid=716]Yahoo![/URL]
At Least 7 Dead in Russia School Seige
3 minutes ago
By MIKE ECKEL, Associated Press Writer
BESLAN, Russia - At least seven people were killed and 310 others wounded Friday, reports said, after commandos stormed a school in southern Russia where hundreds had been held hostage for three days by Chechen rebels strapped with explosives.
Troops killed five of the hostage-takers but 13 others escaped, the ITAR-Tass news agency said. Troops backed by tanks were pursuing the militants, some of whom were said to be holed up in a house in the area, ITAR-Tass said.
Russian authorities claimed to have control of the school, and the Interfax news agency reported that all the hostages had been evacuated from the school gymnasium. But gunfire continued to ring out some three hours after the commandos' raid.
The scene around the school was chaotic: people running through the streets, columns of smoke overhead, the cries of children and the wounded carried off on stretchers.
Seven people were killed, ITAR-Tass said, and some 310 hostages ââ¬â most of them children ââ¬â were wounded, officials from the regional Health Ministry told the news agency. At least four of the dead were children. A nurse spreading sheets on stretchers told The Associated Press that Russian officials expected "very many" wounded.
The commandos stormed the building on the third day of the hostage crisis in Beslan. The raid came after about 30 women and children broke out of the building, some bloodied and screaming.
Interfax said militants fired at children who ran from the building, and unconfirmed reports said some of the hostage-takers, possibly including women bearing suicide belts, may have taken hostages with them.
Women escaping the building were seen fainting and others, some covered in blood, were carried away on stretchers. Many children were only partly clothed because of the stifling heat in the gymnasium where they had been held since the militants took the building Wednesday.
Interfax said the school's roof had collapsed ââ¬â possibly from the explosives some militants had strapped to their bodies. The militants had reportedly threatened to blow up the building if authorities tried to storm.
On Thursday, the militants had freed about 26 hostages, all women and children, and Russian officials had been in negotiations with the militants since they had seized the building Wednesday.
There were conflicting reports of the number of hostages, with official saying about 350 and people among a small group freed on Wednesday saying there were about 1,500.
President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites) had said that everything possible would be done to end the "horrible" crisis and save the lives of the children.
Two major hostage-taking raids by Chechen rebels outside the war-torn region in the past decade prompted forceful Russian rescue operations that led to many deaths. The most recent, the seizure of a Moscow theater in 2002, ended after a knockout gas was pumped into the building, debilitating the captors but causing almost all of the 129 hostage deaths.
2004-09-03 17:57 | User Profile
A good Ossetian acquaintance of mine just called us to say that he has it on good information - from relatives who are cops in Vladikavkaz - that the terrorists gang raped many, many of the school girls in front of their teachers and other students.
You may have noticed on some of the footage they're showing now a number of pubescent girls walking around nude and in a daze - that's very odd behaviour for modest Causus Mountains girls, and some evidence that this information is true.
I underscore that it is secondhand information. I hope and pray it is false.
I wonder if our spineless news media would even report it if it were true.
Also, my acquaintance told me that he doubts whether there were any Arabs among the hostage takers, stating that he believes that they were all Chechens or Ingush. He's in a killing mood, like his compatriots.
The mostly Orthodox Christian Ossetians (historically, the Alans who invaded Europe way back when) are deeply enraged. I fear that there will be no holding them back. I expect massive reprisals on Ingush and Chechens in Ossetia and elsewhere in Russia - again I hope I'm wrong.
If the Terrorists' plan was to provoke a terrible reaction, I fear that they may have succeeded.
Walter
2004-09-03 18:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]A good Ossetian acquaintance of mine just called us to say that he has it on good information - from relatives who are cops in Vladikavkaz - that the terrorists gang raped many, many of the school girls in front of their teachers and other students.
You may have noticed on some of the footage they're showing now a number of pubescent girls walking around nude and in a daze - that's very odd behaviour for modest Causus Mountains girls, and some evidence that this information is true.
I underscore that it is secondhand information. I hope and pray it is false.
I wonder if our spineless news media would even report it if it were true.
Also, my acquaintance told me that he doubts whether there were any Arabs among the hostage takers, stating that he believes that they were all Chechens or Ingush. He's in a killing mood, like his compatriots.
The mostly Orthodox Christian Ossetians (historically, the Alans who invaded Europe way back when) are deeply enraged. I fear that there will be no holding them back. I expect massive reprisals on Ingush and Chechens in Ossetia and elsewhere in Russia - again I hope I'm wrong.
If the Terrorists' plan was to provoke a terrible reaction, I fear that they may have succeeded.
Walter[/QUOTE]
Russian Channel 1 just strongly hinted that these rapes happened, stating that the children were - in Russian - objecty izdevatelstsva. That's hard to translate - its something like "objects of cruel sport." They didn't quite come out and say it.
Man, I wouldn't want to be a Chechen anywhere in Russia right now, especially Ossetia. I fear it's going to be very, very bad.
Walter
2004-09-03 18:47 | User Profile
Russian news is reporting 550 people hospitalized, about 330 of them children.
There may have been well over 1,000 people in the school. The death toll may go well beyond 500.
It looks like what happened was the Russian cops agreed with the terrorists that the cops could remove bodies of people who were killed during the seizure of the school two days ago, and when they went in there things went wrong. It appears that a group of kids upon seeing the cops ran for it, and the terrorists started SHOOTING THE CHILDREN IN THE BACK.
The cops returned fire. It looks like then one of the terrorists set off a bomb or it went off accidentally, and then all hell broke loose. The cops went in flatfooted. People were being shot left and right.
The terrorists split into three groups. Two ran for it, at least one was seized by the crowd of Ossetian parents are torn to pieces. Others were picked off by the Russian troops, and some holed up in a house that was surrounded and I think stormed. A few may have dressed as medical personnel and escaped.
What a bloody mess.
Where is my good friend Ruffin, who always assured me that Islam is no threat to us?
Walter
2004-09-03 20:44 | User Profile
Thanks for the coverage and the background on this situation. I have also had Russian friends who have told me that Chechens are rats. The news media has portrayed the Russians as the rats in this war who were massacuring the poor Chechens. The Chechens must be getting desperate to bomb schools and subways and hold children hostage. Also who is financing them? Which of the Arabic countries come first to mind?
Also, Walter, how do you get Russian channels? Is there a cable service?
2004-09-03 22:05 | User Profile
PLEASE EVACUATE ALL RUSSIANS FROM CHECHNYA, and THEN DROP NUMEROUS NUCLEAR WEAPONS ON THOSE FOUL SUB HUMANS.
Sorry, but this curse called Islam really riles me up.
2004-09-03 22:08 | User Profile
Ossetian parents ripping Chechnyans to pieces? Please, please someone get me some live video of that scene!!! I would enjoy it greatly.
I would get my chidren to watch it and instruct them that this is the proper way to treat Muslims.
2004-09-03 23:03 | User Profile
[COLOR=Red] - "Also who is financing them?"[/COLOR]
I'm telling you, I really really suspect, American neocons who want to weaken Russia's hold on Caucasus. They are pretending they want to smash Islam at any price, but reality they just want to eliminate only those parts of Islam that may threaten Israel.
They are quietly still quite open-minded about using Muslims like Chechens against their age-old enemy, Mother Russia.
Petr
2004-09-04 05:02 | User Profile
Petr, sadly you may have a point. US foreign policy is gravely flawed and is centered around using Islamic scum as leverage to weaken perceived rivals. This is the real rationale behind support for Chechnyans, Kosovans and for the despicable terrorist state of Pakistan (to weaken Russia and its perceived strategic allies, the Serbs and Indians).
Heretical as it may sound, ALL nonIslamic nations must unite and attack Islam simultaneously on all fronts. This includes the West, Russia, Israel, and India.
If Muslims manage to play all of these parties off against each other as they have been successfully doing, we are all doomed.
2004-09-04 05:12 | User Profile
Oh, and one thing that I am now utterly convinced about: Israel has little to do with the curse of Islamic terrorism. These people are sub human organisms to the core, and Israel or no Israel, they will do what is in their nature.
They are simply degenerate organisms who have no right to exist on this planet.
2004-09-04 06:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=skemper]Also, Walter, how do you get Russian channels? Is there a cable service?[/QUOTE]
I have a satellite service.
Western media and governments lionized the Chechen terrorists the past 10 years. This while knowing full well that Shamil Basayev was involved in Al Queda.
Walter
2004-09-04 07:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Petr][COLOR=Red] - "Also who is financing them?"[/COLOR]
I'm telling you, I really really suspect, American neocons who want to weaken Russia's hold on Caucasus. They are pretending they want to smash Islam at any price, but reality they just want to eliminate only those parts of Islam that may threaten Israel.
They are quietly still quite open-minded about using Muslims like Chechens against their age-old enemy, Mother Russia.
Petr[/QUOTE]
I'm baffled by the wole thing, to tell you the truth.
On the one hand, it smells fishy that this thing should happen in North Ossetia just as the situation in South Ossetia was spinning out of control. The attention of the Ossetians has just been diverted east to Ingushetia and Chechnya rather than south to Georgia, where the ZOG-installed government (George Soros) is attempting to consolidate Tbilisi's control of the vital Georgian link of the Baku-Ceyhan pipeline (terminating just a short boat ride from Tel Aviv).
On the other hand, who in the hell could they possibly hire to do this sort of thing? Those terrorists were as good as dead from the moment they agreed to seize that school. I just find it hard to imagine that the motivations of the Chechens, from Shamil Basayev on down to the "black widow" suicide bombers - are motivated by anything but their desire to institute a Caliphate of the Caucus (the stated goal of their program). They just seem such unlikely allies, but maybe I simply lack imagination.
I'll mull it over some more.
In any event, both Judaism and Islam are our blood enemies. Of the two, Judaism is the more dangerous. As Chiang said of the Japanese and Communists, the "Japanese are but a disease of the skin, but the Communists are a disease of the heart."It's the same for us. Jews are much more dangerous to us than Muslims because our people fail to recognize Jews as aliens as they do Muslims. The subversive is always a greater threat than the enemy soldier in uniform.
The Muslims are a disease of the skin, but the Jews are a disease of the heart.
I haven't heard of any reports of reprisals thus far.
Walter
2004-09-04 08:25 | User Profile
The report I read said as many as 200 dead, I hate to news media coverage. Sadly one thinks this could have been worse, 100's were saved.
2004-09-04 12:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Faust]The report I read said as many as 200 dead, I hate to news media coverage. Sadly one thinks this could have been worse, 100's were saved.[/QUOTE]
Recent reports indicate that they'll recover about 350 bodies from the school.
Also, President Putin sealed off the North Ossetia border, ostensibly to prevent the terrorists from escaping but I think impliedly also to prevent armed Ossetian militia from attacking the hated Ingush.
The northern Caucus is a burning ammunition dump about to explode. Of course, that's probably what the terrorists want, so Putin's unlikely to give it to them.
Walter
2004-09-04 14:21 | User Profile
I dispute this whole silly notion that we are 'playing into the hands of the terrorists' by allowing Ossetians to attack Muslims in the Caucasus. This is part of the whole idiotic hypothesis that terrorists are only a small minority of the Muslim population and the majority of Muslims are not terrorists and should not suffer.
Bollocks. Islam as a philosophy is foul and encourages hatred and terrorism. A general assault on all Islam is what is needed, not a surgical strike to weed out only the extremists. Islam is evil and unacceptable, period.
The 'explosion of the whole Caucasus' is not just what the terrorists want...it is also precisely what I would like to see. Because we have the nukes and guns and superior firepower....an all out war will result in only one victor...us.
All-out war against Islam is exactly what the doctor ordered. We should all pray for it.
2004-09-04 14:39 | User Profile
As an example of what I mentionned, in 2002, Muslims attacked a train in India and burnt to death 60 or so Hindu men, women, and children:
[url="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1843591.stm"]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1843591.stm[/url]
In response Hindu mobs attacked and slaughtered about a thousand Muslims.
Since then there has not been a single large scale riot or Muslim terror attack in the region.
There is truly only one response that Muslims understand.
2004-09-05 04:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=SupremeSpirit]I dispute this whole silly notion that we are 'playing into the hands of the terrorists' by allowing Ossetians to attack Muslims in the Caucasus. This is part of the whole idiotic hypothesis that terrorists are only a small minority of the Muslim population and the majority of Muslims are not terrorists and should not suffer.
Bollocks. Islam as a philosophy is foul and encourages hatred and terrorism. A general assault on all Islam is what is needed, not a surgical strike to weed out only the extremists. Islam is evil and unacceptable, period.
The 'explosion of the whole Caucasus' is not just what the terrorists want...it is also precisely what I would like to see. Because we have the nukes and guns and superior firepower....an all out war will result in only one victor...us.
All-out war against Islam is exactly what the doctor ordered. We should all pray for it.[/QUOTE]
I'm a "worse is better" kind of guy, so in general I agree.
This war is good for us Christian nationalists, since the thing that we really need is to yank our people out of their complacency and take the threats posed by aliens seriously.
Islam is a threat. Jewish Supremacism is a threat. A war with one will underscore the other.
I'm merely saying that Putin seems to be taking steps to prevent an all-out war in the Northern Caucus - he obviously doesn't share my belief in the overall benefits of a new Crusade against Islam.
Walter
2004-09-06 00:10 | User Profile
School Director: Speznaz Has Saved Us ([url]http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,53600,2268974.html[/url]
translation at [url=http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_international&Number=292918871&view=collapsed&sb=6&o=7&part=]Liberty Forum[/url])> How were you treated by the terrorists?
Well. They did not abuse us, there were no rapes. They only yelled at the kids from time to time. We suffered most because of lack of water. We were moistening our lips with urine. Children were peeing on their outfits and then they were sucking them like pacifiers. We begged for water but it didn’t accomplish anything. Only one terrorist was nice. He let us go to the toilet at night – to have a drink. But this was an exception. He was a little worried and told us to hurry and to do it quietly so his comrades do not notice anything. During the last day, when the kids started crying for water and the whole room was filled with moaning, they would shoot over our heads
Is she telling the truth?
Russian Siege Victims Mourned ([url=http://uttm.com/stories/2004/09/01/world/main639914.shtml]CBS News[/url])
"Some want to cut off a juicy morsel from us, others are helping them. They are helping, believing that Russia, as one of the world's biggest nuclear powers, is still posing a threat to them.
"Therefore, this threat must be removed. And terrorism is, of course, only a tool for achieving these goals," Putin said.
Analysts said Sunday that Putin had turned a new page in his foreign policy, blaming terrorism on the West.
"(W)ho fears our nuclear weapons? Who are they aimed at? It's the West. It's not Osama bin Laden," said Pavel Felgenhauer, an independent military analyst. Is Putin telling the truth?
2004-09-06 06:59 | User Profile
Check this out:
[URL=http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/474252.html]Israel may propose landmark security cooperation with Russia[/URL]
2004-09-06 09:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Stanley]Is Putin telling the truth?[/QUOTE]
See this from the [URL=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64187-2004Sep5.html]Washington Post[/URL]. They actually admit lying about the number of hostages.
I suspect that they're lying about the rapes and the ethnic identity (claiming that they're mostly Arabs, including one black African) of the hostage takers. I am told by people with close relatives involved in this horror that they hostage takers were nearly all Ingush with some Chechens, and that the rapes did take place. I even heard that the hostage takers made a video of these rapes that was broadcast on Ukrainian television, but that should be easy enough to confirm or refute. I'll keep digging, and will let you know.
Russian motivations for lying are clear enough: if the hostage takers were in fact Ingush and they did rape Ossetian girls, the Ossetians would go quite completely mad and start killing Ingush and Chechens, which could ignite a general Caucus war. That's probably exactly what the hostage takers were hoping for. They want an ugly reaction in the hopes of creating a greater Caucus Mountains Caliphate, which is their stated intention.
[QUOTE]Russia Admits It Lied On Crisis Public Was Misled On Scale of Siege
By Susan B. Glasser and Peter Finn Washington Post Foreign Service Monday, September 6, 2004; Page A01
MOSCOW, Sept. 5 -- The Russian government admitted Sunday that it lied to its people about the scale of the hostage crisis that ended with more than 300 children, parents and teachers dead in southern Russia, making an extraordinary admission through state television after days of intense criticism from citizens.
As the bereaved families of Beslan began to lay their loved ones to rest Sunday, the Kremlin-controlled Rossiya network aired gripping, gruesome footage it had withheld from the public for days and said government officials had deliberately deceived the world about the number of hostages inside School No. 1.
"At such moments," anchor Sergei Brilyov declared, "society needs the truth."
The admission of an effort to minimize the magnitude of a hostage crisis that ensnared about 1,200 people, most of them children, marked a sharp turnabout for the government of President Vladimir Putin. In previous crises with mass fatalities, such as the sinking of the nuclear submarine Kursk in 2000 and the 2002 siege of a Moscow theater, officials covered up key facts as well, but afterward never acknowledged doing so.
"It doesn't suit our president," a Kremlin political consultant, Gleb Pavlovsky, said on the broadcast. "Lies, which really acted in the terrorists' favor, did not suit him at all. Lies were weakening us and making the terrorists more violent."
The broadcast included no apology and referred only to the most blatant misstatement by officials, the claim that only 354 hostages were inside the school. It did not acknowledge that the hostage-takers had demanded an end to the war in Chechnya or that the government continues to give conflicting information about whether any of the guerrillas remain at large, who they were and how many were killed.
Nor did it mention that many residents of Beslan have been outraged that the government now appears to be understating the death toll, which stood officially at 338 Sunday night, although nearly 200 people are still unaccounted for.
As for the hostage-takers, Deputy Prosecutor General Sergei Fridinsky said authoritatively on Saturday there were 26 of them, and all had been killed. On Sunday, he said there were 32 -- 30 of them dead -- and bragged about the capture of one "member of the gang" who was to be charged in court on Monday.
Putin made no public comment Sunday on the deadliest terrorist attack of his presidency, and no senior member of his government has commented publicly since the siege began at 9 a.m. Wednesday. A day after the president vowed in a televised address to take unspecified new security measures in response to the killing of "defenseless children," the Kremlin was silent on what those steps would be.
Sergei Markov, a political analyst with close ties to the Kremlin, said the deadly outcome of the school standoff had left Putin at a loss as to how to respond beyond the former KGB colonel's instinct to strengthen police powers and centralize control over government institutions. "They don't know what to do," he said. "Vladimir Putin didn't explain in detail what will be happening."
Speaking before the Sunday night broadcast of the state television news program "Vesti," Markov said it had been clear that the government had engaged in a clumsy coverup. "Everybody understands they are lying," he said. "Everybody can do the math and know there were more than 1,000 people inside the school."
The Kremlin sought to distance Putin from the deceptions through Sunday's broadcast, in which the anchor chided "generals and the military and civilians" for failing to act "until the president gives them ideas of what to do." Pavlovsky, the political consultant, said Putin had given Russia's political system "a no-confidence vote" for its handling of the crisis.
Such statements could never be aired unless the Kremlin directly ordered them, according to political analysts here. Criticism of the president is never broadcast on state television, the continuing war in Chechnya is almost never mentioned, and even mild questioning of government policy is not allowed without approval from the Kremlin.
"Nothing happens on Rossiya television without the permission of the Kremlin," commentator Andrei Piontkovsky said.
In Beslan, many residents have directed their anger not only at Putin but at the regional leader, Alexander Dzasokhov. In an effort to dispel those concerns, Dzasokhov made a televised visit Sunday to hospitalized children and apologized for failing to protect them adequately.
"I fully understand my responsibility," said Dzasokhov, the president of North Ossetia, the region near Chechnya where Beslan is located. "I want to beg your pardon for failing to protect children, teachers and parents."
For many families in the town, there was not yet time for political recriminations as they searched for missing relatives and buried those who have been found. But people have grown increasingly despondent, acknowledging that many bodies were burned beyond recognition in an explosion that caused most of the casualties.
"We keep receiving complaints from relatives saying they haven't found the bodies," said Lev Dzugaev, an aide to Dzasokhov who gave the now-discredited total of hostages during the standoff.
At the Beslan House of Culture, which has been a gathering point for families throughout the crisis, volunteers taking down names of the missing said the figure stood at 190 as of Sunday afternoon. Many families have left not only names but snapshots, such as one of a little girl celebrating the new year wearing a snow princess dress and surrounded by boys in white rabbit costumes.
All along Beslan's Pervomaiskaya (1st of May) Street, people were burying the dead Sunday. The tops of wooden caskets stood upright outside the large ornate gates of walled homes, signaling a house of mourning. Clusters of people, men and women walking separately, hundreds in all, moved up and down the long, potholed street. The wails of those who were grieving joined the cries of those farther down the street until, in some moments, it sounded as if all of Beslan was in tears.
At 103 Pervomaiskaya St., the body of 75-year-old Rimma Kusova, wrapped in plastic and covered by a thin orange blanket, lay on a table in the home she had shared with her husband and two grandchildren. Her husband, Timur, stood outside, inviting visitors to view the badly disfigured corpse.
Kusova had taken her grandson, Azamas, to school when both of them were seized. The boy escaped; she did not.
Timur Kusova, who is a retired factory worker, said he lost his only daughter to renal failure when she was 16 and his son, the boy's father, to an injury he received as a soldier in the Soviet army that fought in Afghanistan. "I'm the only one now," he said.
Across the street, at number 100, the relatives of 42-year-old Irma Zagoyeva had just come back from the morgue after spending more fruitless hours looking for her body. Zagoyeva had accompanied her 6-year-old son, Chermen, to his first day of school. He made it out. "He said his mother fell down and didn't move," Zagoyeva's sister-in-law said. "That's all he remembers."
The body of Elza Guldayeva, 36, was brought home to number 52 on Saturday. Relatives were waiting Sunday afternoon outside a courtyard draped with vines for the body of her daughter, 12-year-old Olesya, to arrive. Guldayeva's husband was at the hospital with the couple's seriously injured second daughter, 11-year-old Alina.
"They killed our women and children," said Felix Guldayeva, a cousin. "Our women and children."
A large crowd stood outside 44 Pervomaiskaya St. Felix Totiyev, the family patriarch, stood with a cane beside two velvet-draped caskets for his two granddaughters, Lyuba, 10, and Anna, 8. Four more of his grandchildren were missing. From within the house, a constant moan of grief emerged.
At number 35, Batraz Tuganov lay dead under a silver and white sheet and dressed in a jacket. His head was still covered with a bandage. A single man, he was executed during the siege. His 72-year-old mother, Valentina, sat by the body, wordlessly accepting the hugs of the women who surrounded her.
Tuganov had driven two children and a mother to the school last Friday morning, relatives said. He decided to walk into the school courtyard with them.
At number 30, the funeral was over. Volodya Khodov, 10, who was shot in the chest, was buried Sunday afternoon, and a series of tents covering tables were set up on a side street for the mourners to drink and eat from. Volodya's mother, Zifa, was one of 25 hostages released during the siege with an infant. But she was forced to leave behind Volodya and his younger brother.
Still, there was one piece of good news for this family to savor: Volodya's younger brother survived.
Finn and correspondent Peter Baker reported from Beslan[/QUOTE]
2004-09-06 12:48 | User Profile
[URL=http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/tm_objectid=14605550&method=full&siteid=106694&headline=they-knifed-babies--they-raped-girls-name_page.html]THEY KNIFED BABIES, THEY RAPED GIRLS [/URL]
It looks like the story about the video of them raping little girls is true.
Walter
2004-09-07 08:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis][URL=http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/tm_objectid=14605550&method=full&siteid=106694&headline=they-knifed-babies--they-raped-girls-name_page.html]THEY KNIFED BABIES, THEY RAPED GIRLS [/URL]
It looks like the story about the video of them raping little girls is true.
Walter[/QUOTE]
I'll wait for a better source than the Mirror Walter, but I don't know why I'm shocked, the gang-raping of girls is an established crime amongst the Mohammedan hordes infesting Western Europe and Australia. This situation turned out far worse than I expected and I'm a pessimist.
2004-09-07 12:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=na Gaeil is gile]I'll wait for a better source than the Mirror Walter, but I don't know why I'm shocked, the gang-raping of girls is an established crime amongst the Mohammedan hordes infesting Western Europe and Australia. This situation turned out far worse than I expected and I'm a pessimist.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, fair enough.
It could just be a rumor that they picked up on.
I'll keep looking into the matter.
2004-09-07 16:14 | User Profile
I (unfortunately) heard a bit of the Neal Boortz show today in my car. The guest host (Jay Severin, I think) was saying that Russia and America should now become close allies in the 'War on Terror,' because --
"suddenly, the Russians find themselves in the same boat that America is in." (italics mine)
Suddenly? Suddenly? What kind of a freakin' ignoramous is this dude? How long have the Russians been dealing with Chechen terrorists? And how long has the US been advising them to exercise 'restraint'? I know this is only tangetially related to this thread, and for that I apologize, but the total stupidity that passes for informed discourse in this country is absolutely unbelievable sometimes.
BTW -- this same guy said that we should have nuked Iraq. :wacko:
2004-09-07 16:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Quantrill]I (unfortunately) heard a bit of the Neal Boortz show today in my car. The guest host (Jay Severin, I think) was saying that Russia and America should now become close allies in the 'War on Terror,' because --
"suddenly, the Russians find themselves in the same boat that America is in." (italics mine)
Suddenly? Suddenly? What kind of a freakin' ignoramous is this dude? How long have the Russians been dealing with Chechen terrorists? And how long has the US been advising them to exercise 'restraint'? I know this is only tangetially related to this thread, and for that I apologize, but the total stupidity that passes for informed discourse in this country is absolutely unbelievable sometimes.
BTW -- this same guy said that we should have nuked Iraq. :wacko:[/QUOTE]
That really is frustrating, isn't it?
Freepers are totally into this one.
America backs up the Muslims of Bosnia (Alia Izitbegovich, no less) and Kosovo when Russia backs up the Christian Serbs. Then America bombs the Christian Serbs in aid of the Muslim fanatics of Bosnia and Kosovo. And all the while that's going on, America gives political comfort to Muslim fanatics in Chechnya, with the entire western press lionizing those animals shamelessly, even after they committed an antrocity as horrific as the raid on the maternity hospital in Budyonnovsk in 1995 (you gotta love this Muslis - they like to fight pregnant women and children).
Not to mention that America created bin Laden's group in Afghanistan to fight the Russians in the 1980's there (okay, okay, they were commies back then).
But the point is that while Russia was fighting Islamic terror for the past 20 years, American only decided to take it seriously three years ago.
And now Russia is supposed to be "finally waking up" to the problem?
Lord, how long till the collapse?
2004-09-07 19:51 | User Profile
I'd say America isn't taking Islamic terror seriously. I think the measures inacted are evidence of that (War in Iraq, the PATRIOT Act, no border and immigration controls). Terrorism is useful to the Zionist cabal in Washington as a pretext for continued massive intervention in the Middle East in favor of Israel. An actual end to Islamic terrorism would be an absolute political disaster for these creeps.
2004-09-08 11:37 | User Profile
Moscow Times
Wednesday, September 8, 2004. Page 1.
[URL=http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2004/09/08/003.html]Ethnic Tensions Heat Up in Ossetia[/URL]
By Nabi Abdullaev
Staff Writer Police and troops were out in full force Tuesday in North Ossetia and Ingushetia as the Beslan hostage tragedy inflamed old hatred between regional ethnic groups and raised the threat of war.
[B]"All this was done by the Ingush and Chechens," [/B] Zalina Budayeva, 48, said Tuesday at a memorial in the burnt-out Beslan school gymnasium where more than 300 of some 1,000 hostages died.
[B]"In general, Ossetians are good people, Christians, and they are friends of the Russians," Budayeva said. "The Ingush are taught to murder Ossetians since childhood."[/B]
President Vladimir Putin warned after the school was seized by a group of Chechen, Ingush, Ossetian and Arab attackers last Wednesday that the crisis could "explode" simmering tensions between the Ingush and Ossetians, who waged a 1992 war over a disputed district of North Ossetia.
[B]Ingush families began fleeing the region as early as Wednesday[/B], Ekho Moskvy radio reported, citing its listeners there.
[B]They had good reason to flee[/B]. Ossetians' initial shock about the school tragedy quickly turned to rage -- at law enforcement agencies for failing to protect the people, at the government for lying about the number of hostages, and at their old rivals, the Ingush.
"We have fought the Ingush with weapons in our hands. Today, our men are ready to go after them once again," Beslan resident Irina Parfiyeva said.
[B]Huge anti-Ingush rallies[/B] were held in the main city of the disputed district, Prigorodny, on Saturday, a day after the hostage-taking ended in a bloodbath.
On Sunday, [B]an angry mob of 1,000 people tried to destroy Ingush homes in the Prigorodny district[/B], Gazeta.ru reported. Police broke up the crowd before it reached the homes.
[B]North Ossetian State University officials put all Ingush and Chechen students on buses and sent them out of the region Monday, said Alan Khadikov, an Ossetian student at the university in the regional capital, Vladikavkaz.[/B]
The students came to classes as usual and were told by their professors that they had to leave for the time being for their own safety, Khadikov said.
[B]Patrols have been stepped up at the internal border between North Ossetia and Ingushetia since last week.[/B]
Rallies continued in North Ossetia on Tuesday. About 1,500 people gathered at the regional government headquarters in Vladikavkaz to decry the authorities' handling of the hostage crisis and demand the resignation of North Ossetian President Alexander Dzasokhov. A group of Ossetian opposition politicians and relatives of those killed in Beslan had earlier demanded that Dzasokhov step down by Tuesday.
The school death toll rose Tuesday by one to 336, including 156 children, a spokesman for Dzasokhov, Lev Dzugayev, told Interfax. A total of 346 people remained hospitalized in North Ossetia, Rostov-on-Don and Moscow, he said.
Meanwhile, new details about the attackers surfaced Tuesday that threatened to further tarnish the reputation of law enforcement agencies.
[B]Two of the 32 attackers were detained and inexplicably released by federal authorities in Chechnya in 2002 and 2003, Vremya Novostei reported. One Chechen attacker was detained on suspicion of participating in a rebel raid on a village administration building, and the other, also a Chechen, was suspected of helping plan attacks by female suicide bombers.[/B]
"They were arrested and should have been kept behind bars," an unidentified law enforcement official told the newspaper.
A suspected leader in the Beslan attack, Ossetian Wahhabi follower Vladimir Khodov, openly spent the summer at his mother's house in Elkhotovo, Moskovsky Komsomolets reported, citing residents of the North Ossetian village. Khodov was on a national wanted list in connection with two terrorist attacks in North Ossetia earlier this year.
The main leader of the attackers, though, is believed to be a man known only as "the colonel," investigators said Tuesday.
Itar-Tass, citing a source in the Beslan investigation, said he served as a lieutenant to Chechen warlord Shamil Basayev, who has claimed responsibility for most of the terrorist attacks carried out across the country over the past two years.
[B]The source also said that the school raid was bankrolled by Abu Omar as-Seif, whom Russian authorities claim is al-Qaida's envoy to Chechnya and the manager of funds to rebels from abroad.[/B]
"The colonel" had trouble keeping some attackers in line because they balked at the idea of taking children hostage, Nur-Pashi Kulayev, the only attacker who got out of the school alive, has told investigators.
Kulayev said several female suicide bombers in the group objected to using the children, and "the colonel" detonated their suicide-bomb belts by remote control in an attempt to reestablish control, Interfax reported Tuesday.
Three or four female suicide bombers took part in the raid, according to hostages and the police. Two of the women disappeared on the first day of the attack, and the hostages had whispered among themselves during the ordeal that the women had blown themselves up in the school library.
Kulayev also said "the colonel" shot dead a gunman who complained about holding children.
Kulayev's lawyer, Umar Sikoyev, told Sky News that the attackers' leader did not tell them about their mission before it started.
The raid, however, was clearly planned well in advance, and weapons were even hidden beforehand in the school's walls and under floorboards in the library. Authorities believe a group of people claiming to be from Dagestan or Ingushetia may have hidden the weapons during a summer renovation of the school.
[B]Four of dead attackers participated in a raid in Ingushetia on June 21-22 that killed almost 90 people, Interfax said.[/B]
In Chechnya, federal security forces began rounding up relatives of Chechen rebels suspected of being involved in the raid as soon as it started. Akhmad Zakayev, envoy of Chechen rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov, said 20 of Maskhadov's relatives were detained and later released, The Washington Post reported Tuesday.
Kulayev, stammering and looking shaken, said in televised remarks Monday night that Maskhadov and Basayev had ordered the school raid.
Authorities detained up to 50 people, including relatives of Basayev, after the school was taken and sent them to the federal military's headquarters at Khankala, near Grozny, The Associated Press reported. The detainees were held for two days -- the men and boys blindfolded, their hands tied behind their backs, and forced to kneel on cold stone, AP said, citing Maskhadov's brother-in-law Shirvani Semiyev, who was among the detainees.
A spokesman for the security services in Chechnya, Ilya Shabalkin, told AP that federal forces had rounded up the relatives for their own safety.
[I]Staff Writer Simon Ostrovsky contributed to this report from Beslan, North Ossetia, and Timur Aliev contributed to this report from Beslan and Vladikavkaz.[/I]
2004-09-10 09:27 | User Profile
[URL=http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=518&e=8&u=/ap/russia_school_seizure]Yahoo![/URL]
Russia: Chechens Were Part of School Raid
Fri Sep 10, 2:07 AM ET
By MARIA DANILOVA, Associated Press Writer
MOSCOW - Ten of the estimated 30 militants who seized a school in southern Russia have been identified and six were from Chechnya (news - web sites), security officials said Thursday, drawing a strong connection to the Chechen insurgents who have been fighting Russian forces for years.
[B]None were Arabs, undercutting the government's contention that Arabs were involved in the hostage-taking [/B] last week in the North Ossetian town of Beslan, which ended in gunfire and explosions that killed more than 350 people, many of them children.
According to the officials, who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity, [B]the other four militants who have been identified came from Ingushetia,[/B] which is sandwiched between North Ossetia and Chechnya and was targeted in brazen coordinated attacks against police that killed 90 people in June. [B]The presence of Ingush raiders threatens to inflame long-standing tensions between Ingush and ethnic Ossetians[/B], who are the majority in the republic.
President Vladimir Putin (news - web sites) and Russian investigators have said about 10 of the roughly 30 attackers were Arabs, [B]but authorities have not publicly provided evidence of the assertion. [/B] Officials who spoke Thursday made no mention of Arabs being among the militants.
Russian officials repeatedly have cast the military campaign in Chechnya as part of a war against international terrorism ââ¬â a battle they say Western countries have hindered by granting asylum to Chechen figures and questioning Kremlin policy in Chechnya.
[B]To push the point that Russia is a victim of international terror ââ¬â and not just of violence spawned by the Chechen conflict, which critics say Kremlin policies have aggravated ââ¬â Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov met with Rudolph Giuliani, mayor of New York City when al-Qaida suicide attackers struck the World Trade Center in 2001. [/B]
"When our Western partners urge us to rethink our policy and tactics in Chechnya, I would advise them not to interfere in Russian internal matters ââ¬â which they do by granting asylum to terrorists who are directly to blame for the tragedy of the Chechen people," Lavrov said after the meeting.
He did not name specific countries, but [B]Russia was particularly angered by Britain's granting of refugee status to Akhmed Zakayev, an envoy for Chechen rebel leader Aslan Maskhadov, and by U.S. asylum for Ilyas Akhmadov, who Maskhadov named his foreign minister while he was Chechnya's president in the late 1990s. [/B]
In comments published Thursday in the newspaper Vremya Novostei, Lavrov said: "Granting asylum to people involved in terrorism ââ¬â and Russia has documented evidence of this ââ¬â not only causes us regret but also effectively undermines the unity of the anti-terrorist coalition."
"We are far from accusing the leaders of major countries ... of deliberately preserving this double standard," he said. "But the inertia is still very strong."
Giuliani said that when Americans mourn the victims of the Sept. 11 attacks on the third anniversary Saturday, they will also think about victims of "this most current act of terrorism," referring to the school seizure.
"Even though these are things that you hope and pray don't happen and you realize that are very tragic, this will bring our people together, because we have been through something very similar," Giuliani said.
Meanwhile, Putin and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder said in a joint statement that the hostage seizuremarked "a new dimension of the threat posed to all humankind by international terrorism," the Kremlin said.
"Thirty-six months after the attacks in the United States and six months after the terrorist acts in Madrid, the Russian Federation has become a target of vile attacks by international terrorism," said the statement, which was posted on the Kremlin Web site. "We are united in (the conviction) that terrorism must be fought jointly everywhere."
In Washington, Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge said President Bush (news - web sites) has asked his top advisers to determine how authorities would handle a similar attack on an American school to ensure adequate coordination in the "unlikely but possible" chance of such an event in the United States.
"How the government and the various entities within the Russian government responded to the incident is not known at this time," Ridge said in an interview Thursday with Associated Press reporters and editors. "Preliminary reports suggest there wasn't the kind of coordination and leadership and direction and somebody being in charge."
North Ossetia's Deputy Health Minister Teimuraz Revazov said Thursday the death of a victim overnight brought the toll among hostages to 329. Security officials have said 11 members of their ranks were killed, and prosecutors have said 30 attackers died.
[B]Putin told the nation Saturday the school attack was meant to inflame the North Caucasus, an ethnic patchwork that includes North Ossetia, Chechnya and several other mostly Muslim republics. He promised to create a new system of security in the region along Russia's southern flank. [/B]
At the Kremlin Thursday, Interior Minister Rashid Nurgaliyev told Putin that directors have been appointed for anti-terrorist commissions in republics across the region, including Chechnya.
Few details were given about how the commissions would work, but the announcement showed the Kremlin's concern that inefficiency and corruption had undermined security and that violence could spread in the North Caucasus.
Each commission will be headed by a senior Interior Ministry officer with the regional political leader as his deputy in many cases and a special task force of 70 men, Nurgaliyev said. He said the commissions will coordinate police, security and military forces in an effort to prevent terrorist attacks.
Russia has been beset by terror in the past two weeks, suffering three attacks that have killed more than 400 people.
The attacks ââ¬â the downing of two airliners apparently by explosions, a suicide bombing outside a Moscow subway station and the school seizure ââ¬â prompted officials to offer a huge cash reward for information leading to the killing or capture of top Chechen rebel leaders.
Russia brushes off criticism that its policies in Chechnya and the brutality of its troops there feed resentment that boosts support for the insurgents, focusing instead on claims the militants are trained by international terrorist groups, including al-Qaida.
Putin won support from German leader Gerhard Schroeder for his portrayal of Russia as a victim of international terrorism. In a joint declaration, the two placed the recent attacks alongside Sept. 11 and the Madrid bombings and said the school raid marked "a new dimension of the threat posed to all humankind by international terrorism."
2004-09-10 19:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE]"We have fought the Ingush with weapons in our hands. Today, our men are ready to go after them once again," Beslan resident Irina Parfiyeva said.[/QUOTE]
Walter,
Unfortunately if such an attack happened here by Arabs or Black Muslims, one wouldn't hear such a statement like the one above. The media and liberals would be blaming the the students, "insensitive" conservatives, Christians, the police, or anybody else except the monsters that did the act. If the parents or anyone else retailiated, they would be treated worse and with less rights than the apprehended terrorists and be labeled militia, or racists.
Also I have been reading about how it is believed that some of the terrorists had been working on renovations at the school previously and thus gained knowledge about how to plan the attack and where to place bombs. there may be been a few mistakes of judgment but I don't think that the Russians could have prevented some from getting killed. I think they did the best they could do under the circumstances.
2004-09-11 00:27 | User Profile
Well if Ossetia is cleansed of Muhammadans that would be a good thing.