← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Pennsylvania_Dutch
Thread ID: 14834 | Posts: 37 | Started: 2004-08-27
2004-08-27 13:57 | User Profile
Here's a classic cop out by Alex Linder: [url]http://www.vnnforum.com/main/2004b/Linder82704onCatholics.htm[/url]
Being a germanic tree worshipper may have some advantages.:hitler: You don't have to take sides on an issue between catholics and protestants.
2004-08-27 14:49 | User Profile
You don't have to worship dead rabbis either.
2004-08-27 15:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]You don't have to worship dead rabbis either.[/QUOTE] Jesus Christ was God---not some jew!
You miss the fact that the jews killed Christ, or if you will had him killed. In other words the jews killed God and have worsipped satan since, as Christ predicted/said they would. The jews actions in the world speak for themselves!
2004-08-27 15:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Pennsylvania_Dutch]Jesus Christ was God---not some jew!
You miss the fact that the jews killed Christ, or if you will had him killed. In other words the jews killed God and have worsipped satan since, as Christ predicted/said they would. The jews actions in the world speak for themselves![/QUOTE] In my opinion, a pagan is a jew, and a jew is a pagan. They both worship Satan, even if they know it or not.
2004-08-27 15:35 | User Profile
Can someone put up a chunk of the relevant text? I'm at work and can't link to VNN or VNNforum... as a prudential matter, not as a technical matter...
2004-08-27 15:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Pennsylvania_Dutch]Jesus Christ was God---
[/QUOTE]
That is just plain insane, sorry.
2004-08-27 16:03 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]That is just plain insane, sorry.[/QUOTE]
Not really. Have you read the following book, bardamu?
[url=http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0310209307/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-7327890-1426455#reader-link][img]http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0310209307.01.PE20_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ.jpg[/img][/url]
I think you should. The evidence is overwhelmingly on the side of Jesus of Nazareth as God, the second person of the Trinity. Keep in mind he was also fully man as well, lest you fall into gnostic/Jehovah witness heresy.
2004-08-27 16:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Not really. Have you read the following book, bardamu?
[url=http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0310209307/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-7327890-1426455#reader-link][img]http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0310209307.01.PE20_PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ.jpg[/img][/url]
I think you should. The evidence is overwhelmingly on the side of Jesus of Nazareth as God, the second person of the Trinity. Keep in mind he was also fully man as well, lest you fall into gnostic/Jehovah witness heresy.[/QUOTE]
Evidence? That's a good one. The whole subject is absurd.
2004-08-27 16:54 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Evidence? That's a good one. The whole subject is absurd.[/QUOTE]
Well, yes. Jesus Christ being fully man and fully God is absurd to our finite minds and limited understanding, Bardamu. But that doesn't mean it is not true.
I am encouraged by you showing interest enough to post in the thread and I'll pray that God brings you to the truth.
Kind regards,
2004-08-27 17:10 | User Profile
I was just sticking up for Germanic tree worshippers. Thanks for your kind regards and the same to you, sincerely.
2004-08-27 17:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]That is just plain insane, sorry.[/QUOTE] Can't handle the fact that the jew is just another pagan, and, that the pagan is just another jew.
Don't believe that Jesus Christ was God, then you are a tool of satan and headed for hell and eternal damnation. You will spend eternity with the jews, who don't believe Jesus Christ is or was God...
2004-08-27 18:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]You don't have to worship dead rabbis either.[/QUOTE]Have to laugh, seeing this comes from the tendency that worships a dead Bavarian corporal turned mass murderer.
Everybody worships something. You will find out soon enough whose God is really alive and whose dead. I'll take my God, thank you.
2004-08-27 18:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Pennsylvania_Dutch]Can't handle the fact that the jew is just another pagan, and, that the pagan is just another jew.
Don't believe that Jesus Christ was God, then you are a tool of satan and headed for hell and eternal damnation. You will spend eternity with the jews, who don't believe Jesus Christ is or was God...[/QUOTE]
Take a pill, take two of them.
2004-08-27 18:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Have to laugh, seeing this comes from the tendency that worships a dead Bavarian corporal turned mass murderer.
Everybody worships something. You will find out soon enough whose God is really alive and whose dead. I'll take my God, thank you.[/QUOTE]
As usual you misrepresent. I don't worship, or even particularly like, Hitler.
2004-08-27 19:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]As usual you misrepresent. I don't worship, or even particularly like, Hitler.[/QUOTE]Linder sure does, and you started out defending him on this thread. Do you want to take this opportunity to disavow Linder?
Whatever. Negativism only sounds intelligent superficially. As the song says
You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything
2004-08-27 19:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Take a pill, take two of them.[/QUOTE] Can't handle the thought that you will be spending eternity with satan, the jews and other pagans...:furious:
2004-08-27 19:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Linder sure does, and you started out defending him on this thread. Do you want to take this opportunity to disavow Linder?
Whatever. Negativism only sounds intelligent superficially. As the song says[/QUOTE] I'm a fan of Alex Linder, but, he doesn't really understand the Protestant Reformation, and I doubt he has read the New Testament. Of course the vast majority of so-called Christians, as an all inclusive term, have only read Genesis and maybe a Psalm---they never get to the back of the book and the New Testament.
2004-08-27 19:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Pennsylvania_Dutch]Can't handle the thought that you will be spending eternity with satan, the jews and other pagans...:furious:[/QUOTE]
PD, to a Christian brother and with all due respect, I don't think you're doing the cause of Christ any favors taking this tact here.
2004-08-27 19:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]PD, to a Christian brother and with all due respect, I don't think you're doing the cause of Christ any favors taking this tact here.[/QUOTE] Another "Great Awakening" is long overdue...
2004-08-27 21:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Linder sure does, and you started out defending him on this thread. Do you want to take this opportunity to disavow Linder?
Whatever. Negativism only sounds intelligent superficially. As the song says[/QUOTE]
You have a warrant to consciously misrepresent my viewpoint because you think the author of the above article does so? What a perfect admission of zero integrity on your part. It is obvious you don't believe what comes out of your own mouth.
2004-08-27 22:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Pennsylvania_Dutch]Can't handle the thought that you will be spending eternity with satan, the jews and other pagans...:furious:[/QUOTE]
Heaven and Hell is what you make out of your life here on Earth,,,,, and the Devils??????? well, the Jews are the Devils.
2004-08-28 04:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Pennsylvania_Dutch]I'm a fan of Alex Linder, but, he doesn't really understand the Protestant Reformation, and I doubt he has read the New Testament. Of course the vast majority of so-called Christians, as an all inclusive term, have only read Genesis and maybe a Psalm---they never get to the back of the book and the New Testament.[/QUOTE]Now com'mon - they all like to look at the pictures!
2004-08-28 04:11 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]You have a warrant to consciously misrepresent my viewpoint because you think the author of the above article does so? You think Linder was picking on you personally? :wacko:
What a perfect admission of zero integrity on your part. It is obvious you don't believe what comes out of your own mouth.[/QUOTE]Hey don't say that about me! You'll make Linder paranoid he's got a potential rival! :lol:
2004-08-28 14:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]You think Linder was picking on you personally? :wacko:
Hey don't say that about me! You'll make Linder paranoid he's got a potential rival! :lol:[/QUOTe]
Your argument tactics are infantile.
2004-08-28 14:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]Your argument tactics are infantile.[/QUOTE]Just like Linder?
Oh no, looks like I've finally been discovered! :lol:
BTW, tell me - who is that new avatar of yours?
2004-08-28 15:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]
BTW, tell me - who is that new avatar of yours?[/QUOTE]
Albert Jay Nock
2004-09-03 09:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]I was just sticking up for Germanic tree worshippers. [/QUOTE]
Well, somebody's gotta do it, I guess.
Walter
2004-09-03 12:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Pennsylvania_Dutch]In my opinion, a pagan is a jew, and a jew is a pagan. They both worship Satan, even if they know it or not.[/QUOTE]
So man lieth down, and riseth not; till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep (Job 14:12).
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake ââ¬Â¦ (Dan. 12:2).
ââ¬Â¦ for now shall I sleep in the dust; and thou shalt seek me in the morning, but I shall not be (Job 7:21).
In the original Hebrew of the Old Scriptures the dead were said to go to sheol:
The Hebrew word ââ¬Åsheolââ¬Â occurs 65 times in the original texts. The translators of the King James Version rendered it ââ¬Åhellââ¬Â 31 times, ââ¬Ågraveââ¬Â 31 times, and ââ¬Åpitââ¬Â 3 times. Never once is ââ¬Ësheolââ¬Â depict as a place where the dead suffer conscious torment.
The comparable Greek word in the New Scriptures is hades. When the Judean translators of the Septuagint Bible (280 B. C.) came to the word sheol, they always rendered it with the Greek hades. When the writers of the New Scriptures quoted a passage frm the Hebrew, they rendered sheol as hades. An example:
For thou wilt not leave my soul in sheol (Ps. 16:10).
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hades (Acts 2:27).
Originally Posted by white-patriot How the author of that piece came to the conclusion that Isaiah 30:26 describes hell is beyond me. If you read the whole chapter it is the description of Israels rebellious attitude, God's mercy toward His people and His judgment on the nations that want to harm her. Verse 26 is another example of the glory and countenance of the Lord. Verses 23 - 26 all cover the blessings on Israel by God. In Verse 26 itself it says "in the day that the Lord bindeth up the the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound". This really doesn't sound like the Lake of fire to me.
2004-09-03 14:45 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gabrielle]In the original Hebrew of the Old Scriptures the dead were said to go to sheol:
The Hebrew word “sheol” occurs 65 times in the original texts. The translators of the King James Version rendered it “hell” 31 times, “grave” 31 times, and “pit” 3 times. Never once is ‘sheol” depict as a place where the dead suffer conscious torment.[/QUOTE]
Are you Jehovah's Witness, Gabrielle?
Isaiah 14 & Luke 16 - among many other scriptures...
2004-09-03 18:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Are you Jehovah's Witness, Gabrielle?
Isaiah 14 & Luke 16 - among many other scriptures...[/QUOTE]
Jesus made it crystal clear that hell (or whatever Aramaic word He actually used) is an intensely unpleasant place.
Revelation as well - lake of fire and all that.
I sure hope to avoid it.
Walter
2004-09-03 21:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]Jesus made it crystal clear that hell (or whatever Aramaic word He actually used) is an intensely unpleasant place.
Revelation as well - lake of fire and all that.
I sure hope to avoid it.
Walter[/QUOTE] Or Greek word or Syriac; isn't Syriac Aramaic?
2004-09-03 21:37 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]Jesus made it crystal clear that hell (or whatever Aramaic word He actually used) is an intensely unpleasant place.
Revelation as well - lake of fire and all that.
I sure hope to avoid it.
Walter[/QUOTE]
Jesus often spoke in parables.
Remember what the Godly Job saidââ¬Â¦ the dead know not anything.
2004-09-03 21:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Are you Jehovah's Witness, Gabrielle?
Isaiah 14 & Luke 16 - among many other scriptures...[/QUOTE]
Of course not!
2004-09-04 01:28 | User Profile
He closed the screed with - " The only thing you are wise to bow before, Aryan reader, is Objective Reality. A 'religion' many deny, but you'll never see them jumping off cliffs. Until somebody proves otherwise, go with "reality exists" as your operating theory and you'll never go wrong. ALEX LINDER "
well. He totally misses the point. His mode of thought is no different than the Jews he despises. They wait for a warlike leader called " The Messiah " to come and help them crush their enemies. The point he does not comprehend can be put like this. What kind of God only wants to be praised and adored only after displaying his physical-senses reality and power ? God does not do this for a REASON. The reason is that he doesn't want you to believe in Him because he " showed you so ". That's not going to get you into the personal life-leading journey a person of faith must sustain in order to be saved from the grave. When Thomas did not believe He rose from the dead, Jesus said ( I paraphrase ) to Thomas after he saw him Risen, Blessed are Those who Do Not See, Yet Believe. Think about it.
2004-10-11 20:32 | User Profile
The Catholic church could be a positive think if it was the Germanic folkisch 10th century church that was custom tailored and designed for our people.
2004-10-12 14:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Pennsylvania_Dutch]Don't believe that Jesus Christ was God, then you are a tool of satan and headed for hell and eternal damnation. You will spend eternity with the jews, who don't believe Jesus Christ is or was God...[/QUOTE]
I should think one's actions and intentions would mean a great deal more than one's abstract beliefs. The God you describe, who sends kindly and gentle, pacifist grandmothers to be tortured for all eternity, merely due to their agnosticism, sounds more like Satan, or some other hideous monstrosity, than the Christian deity who's love and mercy are among His most salient qualities. I'm unclear as to whether or not He exists, but I'm absolutely positive you are wrong about the manner in which He exists. Frankly, IF torturing otherwise good, yet non-believing people for all eternity is His game, then all decent people should defiantly loathe Him, not worship him in order to spinelessly and cowardly curry His favor, as you seem to be suggesting. It is absurd to suggest God is a cruel sadist. Such a being could not be the Creator of the Universe.
2004-10-12 15:35 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Kevin_O'Keeffe]I should think one's actions and intentions would mean a great deal more than one's abstract beliefs. The God you describe, who sends kindly and gentle, pacifist grandmothers to be tortured for all eternity, merely due to their agnosticism, sounds more like Satan, or some other hideous monstrosity, than the Christian deity who's love and mercy are among His most salient qualities. I'm unclear as to whether or not He exists, but I'm absolutely positive you are wrong about the manner in which He exists. Frankly, IF torturing otherwise good, yet non-believing people for all eternity is His game, then all decent people should defiantly loathe Him, not worship him in order to spinelessly and cowardly curry His favor, as you seem to be suggesting. It is absurd to suggest God is a cruel sadist. Such a being could not be the Creator of the Universe.[/QUOTE]
While admittedly I have my doubts about the sincerity of Penn. Dutch and don't particularly appreciate his approach, I have to agree with the bottom line truth of his statement.
Our actions and intentions don't matter a hill of beans before God as we are all sinful beings and completely incapable of thinking or doing anything of ourselves to merit salvation/eternal life. As for God being kindly and gentle and sending someone to hell for eternity, the critical factor is not one's intentions or actions fitting our definition of "good", but whether or not the person in question had faith and confessed Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.
You see God demonstrated His love for us by sending his son, Jesus Christ, to die a cruel death on the cross to be the sacrifice for our sins, once and for all. So yes, God is love but He is also very clear that belief in Jesus Christ is the only manner by which we can be saved. We come to this belief solely through the work of the Holy Spirit and not in any way from ourselves. In short, we are completely helpless, dead in our trespasses. Indeed, whether we go to heaven or hell is all about God's grace and love for us as it should be. I don't want the decision of whether or not I spend eternity in heaven or hell left in my feeble hands. I couldn't place much confidence in that if it were the case, but thankfully it is not.