← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · JoseyWales
Thread ID: 14680 | Posts: 13 | Started: 2004-08-11
2004-08-11 02:49 | User Profile
2nd peter, chap2 what is verse 10 talking about ?
8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
2004-08-11 04:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=JoseyWales]2nd peter, chap2 what is verse 10 talking about ?
8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;[/QUOTE]I don't think its terribly hard to understand Josey. While the Bible affirms our right to exercise our rights underneath our government, including respectful disagreement, it always emphasizes our duty first to be respectful of the legal governors as agents of the will of God for ultimate good, even when the good often seems acomplished in spite of the agents themselves, through only the power of God Almighty. This principle is spelled out most clearly I think in Romans 13:1.
I hope that helps. Maybe you could clarify your specific objection if it does not. even when
2004-08-11 04:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=JoseyWales]10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. [/QUOTE]
Why do you ask what it means?
It means evil people are perverts, hate God's dominion, and speak abusively of God and supernatural beings. In short, they're arrogant fools.
2004-08-11 15:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=JoseyWales]2nd peter, chap2 what is verse 10 talking about ?
10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.[/QUOTE]
Instead of the word 'government' that the King James uses here, the NIV and ESV both use 'authority', which in this case I believe is a clearer/more definitive word.
Kierkegaard wrote somewhere that men reject Christianity not because of disbelief, but rather because of their unwillingness to be subject to Christ's authority. While that certainly doesn't apply to every unregenerated soul, I do think there is alot of truth to that statement.
2004-08-13 07:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=JoseyWales]2nd peter, chap2 what is verse 10 talking about ?
10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. [/QUOTE]
Michael Moore and his documentary comes to mind when I read this verse.
Peter, Chapter 2 speaks of false "teachers".
Moore speaks out against government to the masses with no facts to back it up and in doing so misleads many. He does so for the lust of earthly treasures and that I believe that is what 10 is referring to. That's just my take on it.
2004-08-13 08:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=JoseyWales]2nd peter, chap2 what is verse 10 talking about ?
8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;[/QUOTE]
I think that this refers to the "false teachers" at the beginning of this chapter.
Perhaps Peter is saying that these false teachers refuse to accept Apostolic authority in matters of dogma?
Walter
2004-08-17 05:09 | User Profile
When i was reading this a few days back, i didnt know how to interpret it. I take it as not meaning to bow down to any/all government, but those that have been formed by the will of the people. its also hard to respect any gvt that condones the killing of the unborn or takes our money and gives it to alien cultures and foriegn nations. however bad as we disagree with the gvt, in the end "we the people" are ourselves to blame. no amount of gvt will ever save a society that has lost its way.
2004-08-17 21:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=JoseyWales]When i was reading this a few days back, i didnt know how to interpret it. I take it as not meaning to bow down to any/all government, but those that have been formed by the will of the people.
Romans 13, Titus 3, 1 Peter 2:13, Hebrews 13:17, etc. etc.
its also hard to respect any gvt that condones the killing of the unborn or takes our money and gives it to alien cultures and foriegn nations. however bad as we disagree with the gvt, in the end "we the people" are ourselves to blame. no amount of gvt will ever save a society that has lost its way.[/QUOTE]
Christ has all authority here on earth, so all earthly authority is of His will. It is a difficult issue. I think the best approach is to first make sure we are completely taking care of the immediate things around us and then pray and trust God to work out the bigger picture.
2004-08-17 23:33 | User Profile
"But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities."
Just for the record, "dignities" includes the devil. See Jude 1:8-9.
And, the greek word translated "government" in this verse is never used in reference to just human government.
2004-08-18 03:31 | User Profile
I can't believe that you people are falling for the "religion" that the Jews gave you.
You people talk about finding "God" by using religion, the only thing that you will find with religion is war and discord, remember that the Jews were the inventors of religion and the Bible.
Finding the one that you call "God" is like finding love, when it happens it happens and you wont find love by reading a book.
And don't expect to go to "Heaven" when you die for heaven and hell is what you make here on Earth,,,,, and the Jews have created hell for the Palestinian people and soon the same will happen here in the USA, is time to get rid of the Jews (Zionists).
2004-08-18 03:55 | User Profile
My dear Ponce, Christianity the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes. Do you have an alternative that provides salvation?
Yes, Israel is providing Hell for the Palestinians and America's Isreali policy is dictated by our evangelicals. Yes, "Jews" gave us Christianity. And, religion does generate war and discord (what has Atheism done?).
Don't you respect a religion that blames Jews for killing God? :glare:
I honestly and absolutely believe that the lack of Christianity is America's problem. I don't mean that we don't have enough Israel-first evangelicals. Modern Christianity is a joke, from the secular Chrisitans to the zionists Christians. If the Catholic Church were more serious about Christianity, there would never have been the homosexual pedophile scandal.
Look at America 1900 vs. 2000. What has changed? Christianity has been replaced by secularism. You should be celebrating! If not the fall of Christianity, why is the country worse (technology aside)?
[QUOTE=Ponce]I can't believe that you people are falling for the "religion" that the Jews gave you.[/QUOTE]
2004-08-18 15:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ponce]I can't believe that you people are falling for the "religion" that the Jews gave you.
*For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles-- if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you, how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already, by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ), which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets: that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel, of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power. To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ, and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ; to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places, according to the eternal purpose which He accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and access with confidence through faith in Him. Therefore I ask that you do not lose heart at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height-- to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.*
You people talk about finding "God" by using religion, the only thing that you will find with religion is war and discord, remember that the Jews were the inventors of religion and the Bible.
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
Finding the one that you call "God" is like finding love, when it happens it happens and you wont find love by reading a book.
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God abides in us, and His love has been perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit.
And don't expect to go to "Heaven" when you die for heaven and hell is what you make here on Earth,,,,,[/QUOTE]
Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed. He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. This is the bread which came down from heaven--not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever."
2004-08-18 19:05 | User Profile
It's about Negro's.
On the subject of "Beasts", Jer. 31: 27-30, "Man and beast shall cohabit and they will die for their inequity". Who are these beasts? Ezek 14:15 "If I cause evil beasts to pass through the land, and they spoil it, so that it be desolate, that no man may pass through because of the beasts.". Dig Newark, Camden, Baltimore, etc. Jonah 3:7-8 "Let neither man nor beast, herd not flock, taste anything;Let them not feed or drink water. But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God." What manner of beast would wear sackcloth, and have the power of speech?
Zach 8:10 "For before these days, there was no hire for man nor beast." Now we have beasts that can be hired.
Acts 10:12 "In which were all manner of four footed beasts of the Earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air." Note the distinction between four footed beasts and wild beasts.
2Peter 2:12 "But these are natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed; they speak evil of the things that they understand not, and shall utterly perish in their own corruption." Africa today?