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What Happened to Baylor in Iraq

Thread ID: 14287 | Posts: 3 | Started: 2004-06-22

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TexasAnarch [OP]

2004-06-22 04:12 | User Profile

"We'll Fling Our Green and Gold Afar, throughout the ways of time, So guide us as we onward go, that Good Old Baylor Line."

(Selected Quotes) BAYLOR MAGAZINE summer 2004 Volume 2 Number 6 [url]http://www.baylormag.com/story.php?story=005152[/url]

What Happened In Iraq

by Brad Owens “What happened in Iraq didn’t stay in Iraq.” That statement was an inside joke, and the joke became a shield, thrown up while we adjusted to the fact that this trip rocked our world, brought new joy, new responsibilities, new questions. Twenty of us went to Iraq for a groundbreaking academic conference last December. Since returning, we’ve been trying to build on the foundation of that experience, and to sort it out emotionally. It’s not going too far to say we see Baylor differently today. When we run into each other on campus, we find ourselves giggling, hugging each other, calling each other by nicknames, almost wanting to cry. We believe Baylor at this moment is in a position to make a significant impact in northern Iraq. And the trip changed us.

“Just after we left Iraq, Baylor Provost David Lyle Jeffrey wrote us a thoughtful e-mail in which he said, among other things, that this kind of work helped our University be “more plausibly Christian.” For a host of reasons, this trip prompted dialogue about what it means to be Christian, and what it means to be Baylor.”

Plausible Christianity I think being a “plausible” Christian involves really doing what Christians should do ... in this case, serve humanity with humility. Displaying character such as this is in direct opposition to the character assumed on Christians by many Middle Easterners. Just as many Westerners have an incorrect view of Muslims, many Muslims see Christianity as an ethnicity and a group of people who are materialistic, self-centered and immoral. Anything that we, as Christians, can do to change that view adds integrity to the Christian character and makes Christianity more plausible or “workable” for humanity. – Mike Chandler, lecturer in Health, Human Performance and Recreation

In the months since the trip, many of us have pursued follow-up projects. In April, Asmat M. Khalid, president of Dohuk University, made his second visit to Baylor to speak with Mitchell’s political science classes. Twenty-one Iraqi graduate students will be on campus this summer under the sponsorship of the U.S. Department of State. Larry Lehr, senior lecturer in environmental studies, is supervising an Iraqi doctoral student on a dissertation based on extensive water-use data the student collected in more than a decade as a civil servant in Iraq. Lehr is considering how water quality can be affected by civil unrest and oppression and what might be done to offset the damage. Bill Hair, associate dean and associate professor of libraries, is working on a way to get thousands of volumes of donated books from Moody Library to Dohuk; many students in Iraq read English, and they have a thirst for the classics (John Steinbeck, for one, was banned by the censors under the previous regime). Our colleagues there, especially the younger ones, expressed great interest in what Amy Hubbell, lecturer in the French department, described as “the democratization of the classroom,” which entails more interactivity, more creative responsibility for the students, more flexibility on the part of the professors. One project being explored for this year is a two-week seminar focused exclusively on teaching techniques.

Our work in Iraq falls under the heading of “building civil society,” which comprises organizations outside of government that speak in the public arena, appeal for public support and claim to work in the public interest. The autonomous university tradition is a key part of civil society, and universities are good places to nurture public institutions such as the legal system, professional associations, political parties and free media. Those who believe a civil society must be “homegrown” to be effective should be encouraged by the Baylor team’s eagerness to listen, adapt and support, rather than dictate or pontificate. On the positive side, I recall the pure joy of talking politics on the front porch of the law building with graduate student Justin Page and law professor Haval Rauf. I would find out later that this building had been used as a prison and execution yard by Saddam’s forces before the first Gulf War. But on this day, the subjects were civil society, Alexis de Tocqueville and federalism. Justin was experiencing an initiation by fire into the world of academic debate, under conditions of unique passion and relevance. Haval was full of questions: How could President Bush lose the popular vote and win the presidency? Would such a system help protect a minority region such as Kurdistan from the tyranny of the majority? I had a question, too: Do we thank God for the gift of politics, for the gifts of reason and judgment and inherent, God-breathed value? I will never forget standing in the cold drizzle on that porch, my hands warmed by a tiny cup of tea, my spirit warmed by Justin and Haval, the ghosts of Jefferson, Madison, Locke and the ghosts of thousands of Kurds and Arabs whose children may experience democracy. The phrase the provost used in his e-mail to us — “more plausibly Christian” — is a step toward solving a riddle. We have been taught that others should see Christ living in us, that we should glorify God through our actions. That’s intimidating and a little presumptuous. Surely, a Christian should be humble, fully — painfully — aware of limitations, shortcomings, failures. How can an honest person who knows Christ not feel inadequate? But we have to try. To be “plausibly Christian” — credible, not ludicrous, worthy of at least an “E” for effort — is a worthy goal, for a person, a team or Baylor itself. Especially in these times.

Owens, BA ’82 (Baylor), MA ’91 (University of Texas at Austin), PhD ’98 (Georgetown University), is assistant professor of

Letter in reply to Brad Owens “What Happened in Iraq”

Dear Brad,

The plausibility of your Christianity, I would like to suggest, would be enhanced if you didn’t come off as such a pompous ass.  One can see the point of your concern with manifesting humility, “rather than dictate or pontificate.”   Goes right with George W. Bush’s foreign policy! – more humble, he said in 2000.  But didn’t you find, as he did, that those people only respect the use of force?

 Did  you find that the American presence in Iraq made Christianity plausible? – or is that not what Baylor was supposed to do.

Who conceived this nifty self-discovery shindig, and how was it financed?  Did it not occur to any of you smarty jones talkers, or to any of your no doubt rapt shock ‘n awesaudiences, that you might deserve to be beheaded?  An altogether shocking and awesome thought in itself, no doubt, but --  did it?  (Maybe let your poly sci grad students in on that one?—you know, humble yourself to see if any of them has an opinion that isn’t corrupted by yours, or neoconservative’s, brainwashing about why you were there and what you were being used to accomplish.)

But I wouldn’t spend that State Dept. money (taxpayers for those 20 Iraqi exchange students to go back and help run the country.   – or, if you have it, spend it quick – because it looks like there maybe ain't going to be a country.  Germany, France and  Russia, with amny others, are saying the US has lost the war, and if so, there will be an accounting due.

. The plausibility of the name, “Christianity”, that you took over there is going to acquire, roughly, that of doggy style anal male sexual rape (“and it ain’t always rape,” my friend reminds me) of the American imagination by their's, and vice versa. and be so coupled with the Zionist messianic delusions referred to colloquially on the street as dung religions. That is what you have made plausible.

And I say that in total objectivity, as one whose family is a testimony of the true Green and Gold flung afar, back when plausibility wasn’t a problem.  If you can be a  little bit pregnant, though, I guess you can be a little bit Christian.  Or vice versa.

What’sa matter witch-youse?

Baylor grad, class of ‘55, with wife, Mary.
Sid Thomas, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Philosophy (emeritus) State University of New York at Binghamton

Texas Tornado

2004-06-22 06:30 | User Profile

First of all, let me say that I am a Baylor alumnus, as about 1 month ago. It's very nice to see a fellow Baylor Bear on this website! I think the original intent of the trip was not based on a Christian mission like the evangelical provost intended it to be. I took Dr. Owens' Editing class as a requirement for a Journalism degree a few months ago. Anyway, I remember him saying that they went over there to help the Iraqi people and help the citizens of Iraq. He did not give much detail about the trip, but he indicated that he went over there to help journalists who were "oppressed" by Saddam Hussein's regime. I assume many of the other professors and students met diplomatically with Iraqi officials, as well as the University.

I'm not sure if I agree with some of your letter's premises. Personally, I don't think that Christianity played any type of role in the sodomies at Abu Gharib prison. The perpetrators of that horrible atrocity were probably the result of government/media brainwashed, soldiers (along with a few incompetent generals). You are also assuming that the Iraqi citizens will see Christianity and the West as an evil thing, which may or may not be true. However, I do agree with the beheading comment. US citizens in the Middle East are the #1 target as Iraq will soon have a puppet president propped up by the US and Israel. Pretty soon, however, there may not even be a real country if the Shia/Sunnis get embroiled in a civil war.

I think that Dr. Owens is doing this out of kindness and a perceived "calling," but I fail to see to much accomplishment as long as Iraq is becomes a state of chaos. I want to remind you that Owens is extremely liberal and is a contributor to the ACLU and other leftist groups, which makes him sort of a "leftist Zionist" -- that is a practicing Baptist, but a contributor to causes that support the destruction of white Christian heritage.

Please notify me if I have misrepresented your statements and feel free to respond.

TexasAnarch

2004-06-22 19:02 | User Profile

Man Oh man

This punctures the pinata.

First of all -- right. Does Jack Kilgore's name (or Leonard Duce, Bernard Ramm, J. Shuford (philo of logic - big mid- '50's influences), still resonate in any Old Main classroom, I wonder? -their years of work couldnt not, as a defining spirit, according to the way I use words.)

Philosophically, I would argue that a. my liberaliasm, at bottom, is identical with Owen's; b. both are identical with the spirit in the halls of Od Main and Charles Wellburn, 7th & Main; c. the psychological place where the split occurs, today -- and it is absolute: metaphysical, theological -- concerns what, in fact, is the center-of-gravity point of this board: How he (and everyone from Howell Raines to (ugh) Trent Lott) have been taken in by the theft of traditional Christian rhetoric by those who mean something entirely different by its words and symbols than previously communicated.

c. Happened historically, after Vietnam, as neocon jews followed up the disillusionment brought by Kissinger's pushing Nixon's war, and the democrats unable to produce anything better than dear old George McGovern to put them in their place. I didn't know that, at the time, as a late 60's philo prof in what had to be one of the most liberal institutions in America, up there alongside Berkeley, Cornell, Columbia -- there was Binghamton, Rty 17 200+ mi. from NYC. In retrospect, we were actually the cross-roads of everywhere, then. The Grateful Dead did a gig in '70 they said was their tightest and best ever; became a prize bootleg tape. WHRW (non-format campus radio, where I was a talk-show host last fall-spring, while you were becoming a Bear alumnus) had a John Lennon live voice call-in to the station cartridge (I heard about The Dead concert in class next day. You could 'feel the vibes', alright.) And lots of other things happened. We were America, then. and what we were is America, now, spread out everywhere, looking for itself through the soul-hunger of the lost generation of children they fathered. It is the baby-boomer's children (the NeoCon Watch guy doesn't call himself "AntiYuppie" for nothing), now their children's children (even more lamentable, as a group), who have allowed the whole thing to slide into the Zuider Zee (Freud's name for Unconscious sewage drainage pit, in Switzerland, isn't it?). An actual reversal of psychological values, as I see it (as in Neitzsche's ressentiment; the Jungian 'catastrophic enantiodromia': conversion-into-its-opposite of linked psychodynamic value-polarities; or the esoteric process of reversal in of developmental direction (Gurdjieff).)

Quote: "You are also assuming that the Iraqi citizens will see Christianity and the West as an evil thing, which may or may not be true."

I am saying it IS -- has become -- AN EVIL THING, WHETHER ARABS OR ANYBODY ELSE SAYS IT OR SEES IT OR WHATEVER. [B]THAT IS WHAT ABU GRAIB IS ABOUT. IT IS THE PERVERSE REVERSAL OF CHRISTIAN SPIRIT AND LOVE, AS SHOWN IN THE PICTURES WHICH (TO QUOTE Jim Giles, candidate for US House of Representatives from Mississippi, whom I support) SORRY *** PREACHERS, SORRY *** POLITICIANS, AND SORRY *** POLICE [/B] REALLY WOULD PROFIT from seeing, talking about, having paid retreats to the inner Congo, as a group, to ponder it, since it, IMHO, is what they actually want for themselves, as a sexual thing, and actually get titillated by it, along with the other porn from Fox news slut TV. nNick Berg's beheading, for them, whether the 'got it' or not, was an actual relief -- an excuse to shift attention -- 'change the subject' as the NYTimes is wont to put it -- from a heinous atrocity the good guys got caught red handed in the act of doing -- or 'with their pants down', as it's also said, ironically -- to the kind of thing one is brainwashed to expect the savage barbarians we are fighting over there to be doing. And to a Jew, too. That's why I want Owen's to ponder the question of who deserves what now, before he joins them in further defilement of being by usung their condemnatory language. He hasn't really decided that in his mind, yet, and is not at all an easy question to get to, except for true Christians IMHO, who are supposed to have got clear on the point the day they did whatever it was to convince themselves, internally, they had the right -- presumption -- to use the term of themselves, plausibly or no. If they get clear on that, they don't wind up on the side of an outfit whose mentality buggers Arabs, or any minorities, like dogs. I don't see why you don't see that.

What makes me confident in attributing the ultimate, categorical (theological, metaphysical) perversion of the Christian faith by 'Brad' Owens is his statement:

"Surely, a Christian should be humble, fully — painfully — aware of limitations, shortcomings, failures. How can an honest person who knows Christ not feel inadequate."

What this says, taken at plain, face value -- as much as such a thing can exist in these matters, I think -- is both logically and psychologically incompatible with being fuill of life. I am honest person who knows Christ who has never felt inadequate for a minute (well, maybe one), and I say people who make statements like that have their head up their ass.

Want to save Baylor? we could, maybe.