← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · LlenLleawc
Thread ID: 14212 | Posts: 8 | Started: 2004-06-16
2004-06-16 06:52 | User Profile
I went shopping for running shoes this weekend. I drove to Sportmart, then to the Mall, where I looked at JCPenny, Foot Locker and Big 5 and finally to a local outlet store and could not find a single pair made in the US. The only three countries I could find were China, Thailand and Indonesia. To top it off, most were ludicrously priced; I remember when I was in high school everyone(at least everyone I knew) thought it was loony to spend $80 on "Air Jordans" - now they all cost that much or more and they're not even made here. I grudgingly settled for an Indonesian pair.
Are there any chains with American running shoes or tennis shoes? I already dropped my favorite brand of boots, Wolverine, now that theyre made in China. I now own Red Wing boots made in America but workboots don't work for exercise. I also buy Anchor Blue Clothing (formerly Miller's outposts) since a lot of their stuff is made in the US. But I would sure like to know where I could get sport shoes without supporting some slave labor camp that undermines wages.
Anyway I came back and searched the internet to find some info, I might as well share it here. These are a couple sites with usefull info.(Since I know not everyone here at OD lives in America and these sites are pro-American, let me say that I don't mind buying foreign goods if they are made in Canada Europe, etc where workers can freely bargain for wages, I just don't like buying from third world countries.) If anyone has any other sources for American made goods, I would be interested.
[url]http://www.howtobuyamerican.com/[/url] [url]http://www.madeinusa.org/[/url]
-Llen
2004-06-16 20:30 | User Profile
One of your links confirmed what I already suspected... New Balance manufactures [U]some[/U] of its running shoes in the U.S. Unfortunatley, I suspect, the only models which are made here are the top-of-the-line models.
That's the way it is with bicycles these days. Sad to say, the only Huffy's and Schwinn's still manufactured here are their specialized, high dollar mountain, BMX, and racing bikes.
Anyway, if you don't mind buying European, some Diadora's are made in Italy, and some Kelme's are made in Spain. They're surely harder to find, but I've owned both and they're very good.
2004-06-16 23:33 | User Profile
LIien? If you were to find those same tennis shoes that they sell for $80.00 made in Thailand but made in America the price would be $200,00 bucks.
That which you call "slave labor" is normal pay in those country's, it not that they are underpaid but that we are overpaid,,,,,,,, like, you can rent a house for $50,00 or less in those country's, public transportation .10 cents and a good meal would cost you .75 cents to one dollar.
We used to pay those prices here in the old days and what made those prices go up was the "greed" of those who provide us with our needs, we then had no choice of to ask for more money in order to survive and that's when the unions came to life.
Look at who controls the big money and the banks in the USA and you will find the Jews,,,,,,,, so please, don't talk about foreign country's for paying less for labor.
2004-06-17 01:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ponce]That which you call "slave labor" is normal pay in those country's, it not that they are underpaid but that we are overpaid,,,,,,,, like, you can rent a house for $50,00 or less in those country's, public transportation .10 cents and a good meal would cost you .75 cents to one dollar.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I'm tired of the lame claim of slave labor. Like anyone cares what some Hindi or 3rd-worlder is making. If anyone really did care then they would understand that it's better that someone has a low-paying job than no job (no job if no one buys). Over time, demand for labor will drive up wages (conversely, flooding the US with Mexican labor drives down wages).
2004-06-17 01:49 | User Profile
I try to take a somewhat roomier view, and think of the possibilities of 'buying Western.' I certainly don't want to short-change our European friends.
I would also be interested in 'buying Mexican.' This, I think, might cut down on some illegal immigration. (I have to admit, I sometimes also like to buy Japanese out of sense of pity for their economic woes--and also because, outside of cars, I think Japanese products are often some of the best around.)
However, it is increasing difficult to do with kind of thing. There are so many products where the production process is spread across multiple countries.
I agree that it is unfortunate to talk about slave labor in a slapdash way. The fact is, there is real slave labor in the world--principally, in China. Also in Africa, although this is not very significant in terms of exports to the US.
It is also very difficult to tell what the effects of buying imported goods is. I think it is very well established that free trade and division of labor among trading partners will lead to higher economic growth for all the natios involved. However, the downside might also be that economic growth that occurs in the US lines the pockets of the wealthy, with the middle and lower classes losing out. Yes, there will be a net gain 'for the county'--but not all will necessarily benefit equally. However, there is some evidence that a fair portion of the country will benefit--and would benefit more if it were not for the crippling interference of the government in the education sector, and in enacting policies of social engineering that force employers to hire non-productive employees, and spend billions on avoiding lawsuits.
2004-06-17 04:44 | User Profile
First, thanks to everyone who responded- I did want to get some more info on this.
[QUOTE=Ponce]LIien? If you were to find those same tennis shoes that they sell for $80.00 made in Thailand but made in America the price would be $200,00 bucks.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I know that is the argument, but my point is prices were lower before outsourcing really ramped up with the technological boom of the eighties( I can only generalize here.). Our bloated government and military expenditures require such inflation. The internationalist mentality requires a bloated government infrastructure; the more we invest overseas, the more infrastructure we need to manage and protect our investment, the more prices for American goods go up. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think we will be able to downsize our government until we can become far more self-sufficient. I would go so far as to say self-sufficiency is more important than economic growth.
I also suspect that a lot of outsourcing is being proactively encouraged to undermine any kind of social uprisings in third world countries rather than just because it saves money; when you build a factory in a third world country there are a lot of costs due to poor local infrastructure that offset cheap labor. The IMF is trying to sell developing countries on export led industrialization.
[QUOTE]That which you call "slave labor" is normal pay in those country's, it not that they are underpaid but that we are overpaid,,,,,,,, like, you can rent a house for $50,00 or less in those country's, public transportation .10 cents and a good meal would cost you .75 cents to one dollar.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, I should have made clear that I was using hyperbole when saying "slave labor camps" but I do think the term slavery is appropriate. Here's where I disagree: Relative prices have little to do with slavery. I mentioned china in my post and have done a couple studies on China. The vast majority of investors in China are foreign and are stripping benefits and worker rights away from Chinese workers. Rural immigrants are being allowed in to undermine urban workers. Villages collectively run factories that require 10 hour workdays 7 days a week. Foriegn investors reap the profits and to quit would mean being cutoff from village resources. Maybe this is not slavery in the same sense our schools use the word but I don't have a problem with putting that label on it. It is corporate capitalism and the emphasis on quantity over quality that makes slavery. If you want to call it something else, I respect that, but the fact that prices are lower overseas doesn't explain much. The self-sufficiency of these people is being undermined to the point that the rest of the world will need to give up self-sufficiency to stay competitive. The future is a globe of fractured nations with no willpower whatsoever.
2004-06-17 06:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=LlenLleawc]I went shopping for running shoes this weekend. I drove to Sportmart, then to the Mall, where I looked at JCPenny, Foot Locker and Big 5 and finally to a local outlet store and could not find a single pair made in the US. The only three countries I could find were China, Thailand and Indonesia. To top it off, most were ludicrously priced; I remember when I was in high school everyone(at least everyone I knew) thought it was loony to spend $80 on "Air Jordans" - now they all cost that much or more and they're not even made here. I grudgingly settled for an Indonesian pair.
Are there any chains with American running shoes or tennis shoes>[/QUOTE]
I know that Beck's Shoes has a lot of (fairly expensive) American-made shoes, but I don't know if they have any stores outside the San Jose area.
2004-06-17 17:05 | User Profile
Darkstar,
Just curious... what is it about Japanese cars that you dont like?