← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Franco
Thread ID: 13941 | Posts: 28 | Started: 2004-05-28
2004-05-28 22:19 | User Profile
Can someone tell me what the National Bolshevik Party's ideology is?
[url]http://www.nbp-info.org/[/url]
2004-05-29 00:00 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Can someone tell me what the National Bolshevik Party's ideology is?
[url]http://www.nbp-info.org/[/url][/QUOTE]
National Bolshevism. Its basically a Neo-Stalinist ideology that rejects the more materialist elements of traditional Marxism("Marxism without Feurbach" as Dugin said). It places strong emphasis on national identities and such. On race they're evasive. On one hand they deny the notion of a white race and believe that race-mixing is not necessarily bad(its a private matter). Yet they believe strongly that all ethnic groups should be preserved, along with their cultures and traditions.
If you want Franco I can provide you with some literature relating to this. To get you started
Metaphysics of National-Bolshevism [url]http://www.arctogaia.com/public/eng-teor.htm[/url]
and
National Communist Alternative [url]http://www.bolsheviks.org/DOCUMENTS/NATIONAL-COMMUNIST.htm[/url]
2004-05-29 13:59 | User Profile
I've read a novel and many articles by their leader on the eXile ( [url]www.exile.ru[/url] ). He's a degenerate, in my view, I'm sure most would agree here. In his autobiographical books he admits to engaging in gay sex in the past. He's narcisistic and a thrill seeker. Maybe he does some good stuff, but his attitude strikes me like his party is a vanity, to be used as a muse to his writings.
The NBP seem to have a associated party in Israel ( [url]http://www.nbp-info.org/archiv/310504/040504_tel.htm[/url] ) which, although it opposes Sharon, is a rather bizarre connection. Also, there are jews in high positions in the NBP - which I would think intolerable in a country as brutalized by their work as Russia. Limonov fled Russia in the seventies in the wave of jewish "refugees", his father was part of the Ukrainian NKVD, which was majority jewish ( [url]http://www.ukar.org/shapov01.html[/url] ). I wouldn't be suprised if he himself was part jewish, like Vladimir Zhirinovsky.
2004-05-29 21:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]I would also consider secular Arab dictatorships, in particular Qaddafi's Libya, to be "National Bolshevik." Qaddafi's revolution combined pan-Arabist nationalism with soviet-style economics. Some consider the Strasserite faction of the pre-1934 National Socialists to be NB's in everything but name. Detractors label this worldview a hybrid ideology, but I would argue that where natural economic collectivist tendencies exist, NB may be a more "organic" ideology and model in that it combines ethnic/national communitarianism with its economic counterparts.[/QUOTE] Lothrop Stoddard's book on Nazi Germany, "Into the Darkness" contains references to that author's encounter with Prussian military officers referring to themselves as "National Bolsheviks" in the early 1920s.
2004-05-29 22:32 | User Profile
I have wondered about Dugin. It looks like perverted nationalism to me.
2005-05-10 02:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]Can someone tell me what the National Bolshevik Party's ideology is?
[url="http://www.nbp-info.org/"]http://www.nbp-info.org/[/url]
[/QUOTE] I don't know as if they really have one. Not a concrete one anyways.
Here are a couple articles though that give you a good introduction to such:
[url="http://www.folkandfaith.com/articles/nationalbolshevik.shtml"]www.folkandfaith.com/articles/nationalbolshevik.shtml[/url] On the sort of history of NBist ideas
[url="http://www.arctogaia.com/public/engl-thesis.htm"]http://www.arctogaia.com/public/engl-thesis.htm[/url] On why the NBP is not a NB'ist organisation, but rather "Limonovs group"
Their reluctancy to take a stand on racial issues, on jewish supremacism and on misgenation and homosexuality is a definite turn off for me.
Nowhere on the site can you find original articles by Niekisch (sp?), Strasser etc. Only more of the Limonov trappings. Sad as I kinda liked their red/brown approach.
If you require further NBist texts I can show you to the door as well...
Regards-
FNF!
2005-05-10 03:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=folkandfaith]I don't know as if they really have one. Not a concrete one anyways.
Here are a couple articles though that give you a good introduction to such:
[url="http://www.folkandfaith.com/articles/nationalbolshevik.shtml"]www.folkandfaith.com/articles/nationalbolshevik.shtml[/url] Link doesn't work.
On the sort of history of NBist ideas
[url="http://www.arctogaia.com/public/engl-thesis.htm"]http://www.arctogaia.com/public/engl-thesis.htm[/url] On why the NBP is not a NB'ist organisation, but rather "Limonovs group"
Their reluctancy to take a stand on racial issues, on jewish supremacism and on misgenation and homosexuality is a definite turn off for me.
Nowhere on the site can you find original articles by Niekisch (sp?), Strasser etc. Only more of the Limonov trappings. Sad as I kinda liked their red/brown approach.
If you require further NBist texts I can show you to the door as well...
Regards-
FNF![/QUOTE]
Isn't [URL=http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16327&highlight=dugin]Alexander Dugin[/URL] the founder?
And what do you think of the [URL=http://www.attackthesystem.com/]American Revolutionary Vanguard[/URL] or of course I think its Troy Southgate's organization [URL=http://www.national-anarchist.org/]National Anarchism On-Line[/URL]
2005-05-10 04:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Link doesn't work.
Isn't [url="http://www.originaldissent.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16327&highlight=dugin"]Alexander Dugin[/url] the founder?
And what do you think of the [url="http://www.attackthesystem.com/"]American Revolutionary Vanguard[/url] or of course I think its Troy Southgate's organization [url="http://www.national-anarchist.org/"]National Anarchism On-Line[/url][/QUOTE] Okay, sorry - wrong address.
[url="http://folkandfaith.com/articles/nationalbolshevism.shtml"]http://folkandfaith.com/articles/nationalbolshevism.shtml[/url] this is the right one
Alexandar Dugin is a prominent "Eurasianist". Limonov calls him the "ideologist" of the NBP here (below) but if I recall correctly he is no longer with them.
[url="http://www.pchela.ru/english/limonov_e.html"]http://www.pchela.ru/english/limonov_e.html[/url]
The above is a good article and interview but doesn't dealing with his views, on jews, racism etc.
This does (lol) [url="http://www.arctogaia.com/public/eng-inter1.htm"]http://www.arctogaia.com/public/eng-inter1.htm[/url]
Founders of NB'ism can go all the way back to people like Otto and Greggor Strasser and the leftwing National Socialists before Hitler kicked them out. Goebell's article on NS'ism entitled "Those Damn Nazis" (on OD board someplace and on F&F) shows this view more indepth (he later went to the side of Hitler:hitler: :wacko: ).As well there are such thinkers as Ernst Niekisch (I think is the proper spelling) and others like this.
The article on NBism on F&F gives some good detail and is to the point about what it is supposed to be about. Limonov sorta takes this and does his own thing with it.
Hiter before '33, Goebells, Strassers, Niekisch, Quadafi, Che Guevara, Stalin probably as well..all were national Socialists in their own right.
The American Revolutionary Vanguard is a site ran by an American, Keith Preston. It is not done by Troy Southgate who is English.
[url="http://www.national-anarchist.org"]www.national-anarchist.org[/url] is a site affiliated with him
as is [url="http://www.rosenoire.org"]www.rosenoire.org[/url]
You could visit all those sites here, are you could just go to the links section of Folk And Faith and find them or visiting the Smash The System webring will get you to all the really good Maverick and Outlaw thought sites all at once in one convenient location.
[url="http://www.pchela.ru/english/limonov_e.html"][/url]
2005-05-10 05:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Hiter before '33, Goebells, Strassers, Niekisch, Quadafi, Che Guevara, Stalin probably as well..all were national Socialists in their own right.[/QUOTE]
I don't believe that, and I am sure that many nationalists would agree with me.
Stalin and Guevara were communists. Communism [a Jewish-invented-and-spread ideology] has nothing to do with National Socialism [I]per se.[/I] One is national, the other is international. One is racial, the other not.
I can recommend some good books for you on the subject of Nazism, if you would like me to.
[edited]
2005-05-10 06:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=folkandfaith]The above is a good article and interview but doesn't dealing with his views, on jews, racism etc.
This does (lol) [url="http://www.arctogaia.com/public/eng-inter1.htm"]http://www.arctogaia.com/public/eng-inter1.htm[/url]
Yup
[QUOTE]On the second place, the state of Israel has been from the very start a strategic base for militant Atlantism (first England, now the U.S.) in Middle east. [B]This state is both ideologically and politically Capitalst oriented and Westernized, what comes to the system of values.[/B] These values are completely contradictory to the Russian national world view, as well as the whole idea of Eurasian Geopolitics.
[B]However, I am completely against the Antisemite racist ideals[/B].[/QUOTE]There's quite a gulf still with western paleo's. He sees Israel as too western, we see it as crptically eastern. [QUOTE] Founders of NB'ism can go all the way back to people like Otto and Greggor Strasser and the leftwing National Socialists before Hitler kicked them out. Goebell's article on NS'ism entitled "Those Damn Nazis" (on OD board someplace and on F&F) shows this view more indepth (he later went to the side of Hitler:hitler: :wacko: ).As well there are such thinkers as Ernst Niekisch (I think is the proper spelling) and others like this.
The article on NBism on F&F gives some good detail and is to the point about what it is supposed to be about. Limonov sorta takes this and does his own thing with it.
Hiter before '33, Goebells, Strassers, Niekisch, Quadafi, Che Guevara, Stalin probably as well..all were national Socialists in their own right.
The American Revolutionary Vanguard is a site ran by an American, Keith Preston. It is not done by Troy Southgate who is English.
[url="http://www.national-anarchist.org"]www.national-anarchist.org[/url] is a site affiliated with him
as is [url="http://www.rosenoire.org"]www.rosenoire.org[/url] [/QUOTE]
I don't know. Troy Southgate site's quote, meant as a rejoinder to the world
[QUOTE]Our aim is to explore key figures such as Ernst Juenger, Michael Bakunin, Julius Evola, Arthur Moeller van den Bruck, Jean Parvulesco, Friedrich Nietzsche, Aleister Crowley, Otto Strasser, Miguel Serrano, Ernst Niekisch, Jean-Francois Thiriart, R.A. Schwaller de Lubitz, Sergei Nechayev, Savitri Devi, Austin Osman Spare, Richard Walther Darre, Alexander Dugin, Karl Haushofer, Arthur Machen, Rene Guenon, Percy Bysshe Shelley, Francis Parker Yockey, H.P. Lovecraft, and Friederich Hielscher.[/QUOTE]Reminds me a bit of the famous line of a kid to some bullies "be careful, I know karate, judo, jiu-jitso, and a lot of other big words." :lol:
Especially, his affinity for the satanist Crowley and his section on sexuality, such as the BSDM section with things our good friend Raina seems fond of would just seem to me to be emblematic of a very confused thinker. What's that famous line about a guy "If you ask him a question, he'll give you 4 answers and one of them may be right" sounds a little too generous. They have a lot more answers and a lot fewer of them seem right.
The Third Positionists perhaps still are more honest and original than the Hitler worshipers or the orthodox left, but not nearly enough so to overcome the tactical difficulties of their position. Practically Strasserites basically ended up splitting up between the orthodox Nazi's and Orthodox Commies. I suspect that is the logical end of this latest strain.
2005-05-12 02:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]I don't believe that, and I am sure that many nationalists would agree with me.
Stalin and Guevara were communists. Communism [a Jewish-invented-and-spread ideology] has nothing to do with National Socialism per se. One is national, the other is international. One is racial, the other not.
I can recommend some good books for you on the subject of Nazism, if you would like me to.
[edited]
------------[/QUOTE] Okay.. But why does Communism always have to be International? Aren't those that give a rats prat about the state of affairs in the world and the state of European peoples well being in the world today "international" in their outlook? I would say so.
Communism at least maintained an ethnic purity that the west with its Capitalism has not been able to do. (See Yockey)
The idea of NB'ism is essentially that it too is Nationalist or National and that Stalin took an idea that was formerly supposedly internationalist in outlook, and made it a Nationalist outlook. Red and Brown. Nationalist and Socialist.
Hitler once commented that the main difference between himself and the Communists was that he had put into practise what "the pen pushers" had merely spoke about. Was his worldview any less internationalist then say Stalins or Guevera's?
Castro and Guevara I would say were very Nationalistic as was Quadafi and his ideas. All are called "Socialist" but that it is simply reductionist in view and too simple for a broad range of ideas.
2005-05-12 02:38 | User Profile
Franco,
You are most Right! [QUOTE]Stalin and Guevara were communists. Communism has nothing to do with National Socialism per se. One is national, the other is international. One is racial, the other not.[/QUOTE]
2005-05-12 03:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]I don't believe that, and I am sure that many nationalists would agree with me.
Stalin and Guevara were communists. Communism [a Jewish-invented-and-spread ideology] has nothing to do with National Socialism per se. One is national, the other is international. One is racial, the other not.
I can recommend some good books for you on the subject of Nazism, if you would like me to.
[edited]
------------[/QUOTE] Okay.. But why does Communism always have to be International? Aren't those that give a rats prat about the state of affairs in the world and the state of European peoples well being in the world today "international" in their outlook? I would say so.
Communism at least maintained an ethnic purity that the west with its Capitalism has not been able to do. (See Yockey)
The idea of NB'ism is essentially that it too is Nationalist or National and that Stalin took an idea that was formerly supposedly internationalist in outlook, and made it a Nationalist outlook. Red and Brown. Nationalist and Socialist.
Hitler once commented that the main difference between himself and the Communists was that he had put into practise what "the pen pushers" had merely spoke about. Was his worldview any less internationalist then say Stalins or Guevera's?
Castro and Guevara I would say were very Nationalistic as was Quadafi and his ideas. All are called "Socialist" but that it is simply reductionist in view and too simple for a broad range of ideas.
2005-05-12 04:14 | User Profile
I am not a believer in National Bolshevism. I know some people on the fringes of that movement. Sometimes I think it has too much Bolshevism and not enough Nationalism. Some of them hold to militantly atheistic ideas and that is not exactly my cup of tea. Some of them like Uncle Joe Stalin, which is a little wacky. Some NB's are cooperating with Bush's plan to turn the Ukraine into a US puppet state.
However, as someone who thinks that most modern manifestations of Nationalism aren't anti-capitalist enough, I think that a reasoned and friendly dialogue by more conventional Nationalists with NB's might be wise. I think the Red-Brown alliance currently being developed in Russia has some possibilties. Modern Nationalist idealogy is very much a work in progress and needs to mature. To quote a Bolshevik I don't like (Mao) "Let a thousand flowers bloom." We rely much too much on old historical models from the 30's. Personally, I feel a great deal of respect for the movements led by Jose Antonio and Codreanu, but I realize that different eras bring their own problems and slavishly copying old models isn't the way to go.
I think these tough times require that Nationalists of various stripes engage in meaningful discussion and speculation on idealogy and paths to power.
2005-05-12 04:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=folkandfaith]Okay.. But why does Communism always have to be International? Well that's a basic Marxist tenat "The proletariat has no Fatherland" (Marx/Engel quote). And why the communist anthem was always called "[I]The Internationale[/I]" as have been the world Marxist organizations.
Dugin as I read him recognizes this. He like many National Socialists renounces the materialistic aspects of Marxism. How really innovative his philosophy is, let alone applicable to America though, is hard ultimately for me to determine. Hard eastern austerity is not an attribute many westerners are really ready to embrace, as the interviewer alludes to. Outside of, and even I suspect inside of Russia, suffering is no longer really considered a virtue.
Aren't those that give a rats prat about the state of affairs in the world and the state of European peoples well being in the world today "international" in their outlook? I would say so.
Hitler once commented that the main difference between himself and the Communists was that he had put into practise what "the pen pushers" had merely spoke about. Was his worldview any less internationalist then say Stalins or Guevera's? So you think Hitler was a globalist and a marxist socialist? You sound ideologically confused, even if you do try to mimic Hitler
Communism at least maintained an ethnic purity that the west with its Capitalism has not been able to do. (See Yockey) Madrussian will tell you, a russian from the islamic republics, that communism certainly wasn't above reproach here.
The idea of NB'ism is essentially that it too is Nationalist or National and that Stalin took an idea that was formerly supposedly internationalist in outlook, and made it a Nationalist outlook. Red and Brown. Nationalist and Socialist. Stalin was arguably just an opportunist, playing one faction against another. See Kevin MacDonald
Castro and Guevara I would say were very Nationalistic as was Quadafi and his ideas. All are called "Socialist" but that it is simply reductionist in view and too simple for a broad range of ideas.[/QUOTE]I don't see how you can call Guevara any sort of "nationalist". What nation was it, born in Argentina, moved to Mexico, then Cuba, finally to die in Bolivia?
Certainly not a fan of the American nation by any means. He thought Russia should have launched all out nuclear war on America uring the Cuban missle crisis.
In any event, conservative nationalism is not a universal thing. Beliefs like Stalin's and Quadafi, as with Sharon's and Begin's for that matter, don't stand for any sort of nation or nationalism I as a westerner would recognize, however much they might be able to inspire some admirers at home and even abroad. (See my signature)
2005-05-12 05:51 | User Profile
[QUOTE=folkandfaith]Okay.. But why does Communism always have to be International? Aren't those that give a rats prat about the state of affairs in the world and the state of European peoples well being in the world today "international" in their outlook? I would say so.
Communism at least maintained an ethnic purity that the west with its Capitalism has not been able to do. (See Yockey)
The idea of NB'ism is essentially that it too is Nationalist or National and that Stalin took an idea that was formerly supposedly internationalist in outlook, and made it a Nationalist outlook. Red and Brown. Nationalist and Socialist.
Hitler once commented that the main difference between himself and the Communists was that he had put into practise what "the pen pushers" had merely spoke about. Was his worldview any less internationalist then say Stalins or Guevera's?
Castro and Guevara I would say were very Nationalistic as was Quadafi and his ideas. All are called "Socialist" but that it is simply reductionist in view and too simple for a broad range of ideas.[/QUOTE]
Communism is a global ideology. It is an international, revolutionary idea that doesn't work. It is total bullshit that was designed and pushed by Jews [at first].
However, political nationalism or fascism is local, e.g. Mussolini and Francisco Franco focused on their own countries and not on any international movement [1].
[1] nationalism is actually racial, but it can be political, too, e.g. fascism in a certain country designed to preserve that country's culture
2005-05-12 06:43 | User Profile
[QUOTE=folkandfaith]Communism at least maintained an ethnic purity that the west with its Capitalism has not been able to do. (See Yockey) [/QUOTE] This is an interesting idea again. But it just doesn't hold up. Firstly everyone knows that during communism the communist states like the USSR and East Germany were full up with "guest workers" from the third world.
True, they weren't truly guest workers, they came against their will. But is that such an accomplishment? The Soviet Union was so undesirable that even African's or Vietnamese had no great desire to stay there. Or for that matter, marry their women to do so.
There is even a story that in Japan, japanese communists who tried to defect to the USSR were routinely treated as lunatics.
That is the great "achievement" of communism. Instead of third worlders looking up to and trying to immigrate to Russia, a lot of Russians look up to and try to immigrate to third world countries.
I appreciate Russians trying to rediscover their past and reject a lot of the modern western ways, but looking to leaders like Stalin and religions like Masonry is no solution.
2005-05-12 18:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=CornCod]I am not a believer in National Bolshevism. I know some people on the fringes of that movement. Sometimes I think it has too much Bolshevism and not enough Nationalism. Some of them hold to militantly atheistic ideas and that is not exactly my cup of tea. Some of them like Uncle Joe Stalin, which is a little wacky. Some NB's are cooperating with Bush's plan to turn the Ukraine into a US puppet state.
However, as someone who thinks that most modern manifestations of Nationalism aren't anti-capitalist enough, I think that a reasoned and friendly dialogue by more conventional Nationalists with NB's might be wise. I think the Red-Brown alliance currently being developed in Russia has some possibilties. Modern Nationalist idealogy is very much a work in progress and needs to mature. To quote a Bolshevik I don't like (Mao) "Let a thousand flowers bloom." We rely much too much on old historical models from the 30's. Personally, I feel a great deal of respect for the movements led by Jose Antonio and Codreanu, but I realize that different eras bring their own problems and slavishly copying old models isn't the way to go.
I think these tough times require that Nationalists of various stripes engage in meaningful discussion and speculation on idealogy and paths to power.[/QUOTE]
:rockon: Completely agreed.
2005-05-13 22:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Yup
There's quite a gulf still with western paleo's. He sees Israel as too western, we see it as crptically eastern.
I don't know. Troy Southgate site's quote, meant as a rejoinder to the world
Reminds me a bit of the famous line of a kid to some bullies "be careful, I know karate, judo, jiu-jitso, and a lot of other big words." :lol:
Especially, his affinity for the satanist Crowley and his section on sexuality, such as the BSDM section with things our good friend Raina seems fond of would just seem to me to be emblematic of a very confused thinker. What's that famous line about a guy "If you ask him a question, he'll give you 4 answers and one of them may be right" sounds a little too generous. They have a lot more answers and a lot fewer of them seem right.
The Third Positionists perhaps still are more honest and original than the Hitler worshipers or the orthodox left, but not nearly enough so to overcome the tactical difficulties of their position. Practically Strasserites basically ended up splitting up between the orthodox Nazi's and Orthodox Commies. I suspect that is the logical end of this latest strain.[/QUOTE]
I am pretty familiar with Troy's works and with the ideas of Third Positionist, National Anarchist and in general National Revolutionary thought. I think if you look around, you will see plenty of other sites that use "name dropping" to simply get their site or discussion group etc picked up in as wode as manner as possible by search engines. Actually, it has worked. You will get folks over to the NA'ist yahoo group that are 3P'ists like something akin to Strasser'ism, and we have had at least one black separatist that I can recall join us for conversations - presumably because Osiris Ahkebelah's name or Malcolm X was mentioned in the small tidbit of information that you posted from the group. So - obviously its worked to an extent.
The weirdo Crowley crap is pretty much resigned to RoseNoire. It is not my cup of tea and I have no time for that stuff at all, as mentioned in the interview with the Ukranian folks at Folk And Faith. So I doubt there is any confusion as to where folks like ourselves stand on that stuff, and then where we agree politically.
I do recall some link to something on sexual freedom or such, but I think the idea is to say that gays can have their own communities too and can apply the ideas to their "situation" for lack of another word. Troy is a married guy with kids so I don't think there is any of that "sexual liberationist" stuff to worry about :)
I think the Third Positionist view allows one more options then simple being a traditional conservative, orthodox leftist, typical anarchist or whatever. It provides many more doors that are open to you, asides from there actually being legitimate political differences which make it impossible for us to simply "go along" with another group.
Curious to know what texts or authors you have read that woudl fit into that category? Bennoist probably, Strassers.. Who or what other sites have you seen that you thought didn't quite clarify that 3P'ist or NR stance well enough or that you thought was simply another strain that presented more problems then answers?
The ones in my sig. I think are pretty "swell". "Isn't that true?" and Surely you'd agree with that, isnt that also true?" :yes:
2005-05-14 04:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Franco]I don't believe that, and I am sure that many nationalists would agree with me.
Stalin and Guevara were communists. Communism [a Jewish-invented-and-spread ideology] has nothing to do with National Socialism per se. One is national, the other is international. One is racial, the other not.
I can recommend some good books for you on the subject of Nazism, if you would like me to.
From Herald Wire Services
CUBA
Black, mulatto youths jailed as 'dangerous'
About 400 Cuban youths -- mostly black or mulatto --
have been arrested in recent months not because they
have broken any laws but because they were deemed to
be potential lawbreakers, a Havana human rights group
has reported.
The youths were sentenced to one to four years in
prison on charges of ''dangerousness,'' the Cuban
Commission on Human Rights and National Reconciliation
reported.
Elizardo S[font=Times New Roman]ánchez, who heads the organization, said in
a telephone interview with the Herald on Tuesday that
''a real and unacceptable social cleansing operation''
had begun in January and remained under way on the
communist-ruled island.
Most of the arrests during ''Operation Containment''
took place in Havana. In most cases, authorities
showed up at the youths' homes, detained them and sent
them to various prisons, Sánchez told The Herald. The
majority of youths are males, and most are in a
maximum-security facility in Havana.
The report noted that of a sample list of 57 youths
arrested, only three were white. The remaining 54 were
either black or of mixed race. The average age of
those arrested was 18.
[url]http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/americas/11614735.htm[/url]
[/font]
2005-05-14 07:32 | User Profile
[QUOTE=folkandfaith]From Herald Wire Services
CUBA
Black, mulatto youths jailed as 'dangerous'
About 400 Cuban youths -- mostly black or mulatto --have been arrested in recent months not because they have broken any laws but because they were deemed to be potential lawbreakers, a Havana human rights group has reported.......
The report noted that of a sample list of 57 youths arrested, only three were white. The remaining 54 were either black or of mixed race. The average age of those arrested was 18.
[/QUOTE]Really, so what? Most jews are racist, in their own domain. Many communist states are. In fact Karl Marx himself not only was a racist (using the N-word alot) but said some things that were extremely anti-semitic.
If a person doesn't know definitely what he doesn't believe in, its diffucult to know what they do believe in. Most nationalists certainly don't believe Marx or Judaism stand as viable role-models for mankind. But compared to Gueverra or Quadaffi they don't do too badly, objectively.
2005-05-14 20:01 | User Profile
The national bolsheviks, which I heard of in Latvia basically are the Russians who stayed behind after the Soviet Union collapsed. The leaders are all jews from Russia. In Finland, Estonia, and especially Latvia, the Russians are the 'immigrant problem.' They cause exactly the same problems immigrants in Western Europe and the United States cause - crime, a drain on social services, and cultural pollution. In Russia, the population is dying out and Moslems are moving in. Why the Hell don't the Russians go home? Lithuania doesn't have the problem because the population is 92% Lithuanian. There are almost no Russians, and very few jews. The largest minority in Lithuania are the Poles I believe.
2005-05-14 20:52 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Really, so what? Most jews are racist, in their own domain. Many communist states are. In fact Karl Marx himself not only was a racist (using the N-word alot) but said some things that were extremely anti-semitic.
If a person doesn't know definitely what he doesn't believe in, its diffucult to know what they do believe in. Most nationalists certainly don't believe Marx or Judaism stand as viable role-models for mankind. But compared to Gueverra or Quadaffi they don't do too badly, objectively.[/QUOTE] Are you saying Castro is a 'Jew'?
I know what I do and do not believe in, however - I do think the idea of Red/Brown convergence and Beyond Left or Right politics is something that whether radical leftists or revolutionary conservatives all alike should take a look at.
I don't know how well the Quadaffi thing works out in the real world as I have never been there myself nor have I ever talked to anyone firsthand who could objectively tell me. So, I tend not to believe the Zionist controlled Western 'news' sources, and having read his Green Book though the ideas were quite similiar to traditional Distributism and workers guilds of many of the more 'revolutionary conservative' variety.
This is not to say of course that Stalin was any sort of nice guy or that I wish to live in such an environment, far from it of course. But I can take a few pages from such texts or struggles here and there and apply them to our struggle..
2005-05-14 20:55 | User Profile
Which NB'ist leaders are :twisted: Jews? Dugin? Limonov? Who exactly are you reffering to?
[QUOTE=Otto Skorzeny]The national bolsheviks, which I heard of in Latvia basically are the Russians who stayed behind after the Soviet Union collapsed. The leaders are all jews from Russia. In Finland, Estonia, and especially Latvia, the Russians are the 'immigrant problem.' They cause exactly the same problems immigrants in Western Europe and the United States cause - crime, a drain on social services, and cultural pollution. In Russia, the population is dying out and Moslems are moving in. Why the Hell don't the Russians go home? Lithuania doesn't have the problem because the population is 92% Lithuanian. There are almost no Russians, and very few jews. The largest minority in Lithuania are the Poles I believe.[/QUOTE]
2005-05-14 23:42 | User Profile
Probably both Dugin and Limonov are both jews. I think I saw their picture in a Latvian newspaper, both had dark hair, big noses and glasses. They looked like 1917 bolsheviks. Not exactly the handsome, blonde haired, descendants of rus vikings.
2005-05-15 02:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE=folkandfaith]Are you saying Castro is a 'Jew'? That wasn't my point. My point was that a lot of people can occasionally say things that sound anti-internationalistic without really standing for anything of usefulness to nationalists, as even Marx did.
Some have argued of course that Castro has some [I]Marranos [/I] stock in him, although that seemssomewhat speculative. [QUOTE]I know what I do and do not believe in, however - I do think the idea of Red/Brown convergence and Beyond Left or Right politics is something that whether radical leftists or revolutionary conservatives all alike should take a look at.[/QUOTE]Sure, we've looked at it and toyed with the whole idea of left/right cooperation from time to time. Nadar was the latest to toy with this line. There are many problematic things still though with this stance, as people going back to the time of the german revolutionary conservatives expressed.
So even in the most brilliant tier of people problems are seen. Even people like Strasser in their work can at times just seem to be expressing confusion.
I don't know how well the Quadaffi thing works out in the real world as I have never been there myself nor have I ever talked to anyone firsthand who could objectively tell me. So, I tend not to believe the Zionist controlled Western 'news' sources, and having read his Green Book though the ideas were quite similiar to traditional Distributism and workers guilds of many of the more 'revolutionary conservative' variety.
This is not to say of course that Stalin was any sort of nice guy or that I wish to live in such an environment, far from it of course. But I can take a few pages from such texts or struggles here and there and apply them to our struggle..[/QUOTE] Like I say, good luck.
The idea of the NBF seems to be to place national socialism on a firmer ideological footing than just the farcical Hitler-worship, aka fuehrer-prinzip, seen with groups like the NA. I don't see that though in practice. Its hard to demonstrate [I]the paradigm [/I] expresses itself in much other than eclecticism as far as I have seen. Maybe Dugin hsa some originality, but the eastern-orientation is pretty foreign to our starting point.
2005-05-15 03:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Otto Skorzeny]Probably both Dugin and Limonov are both jews. I think I saw their picture in a Latvian newspaper, both had dark hair, big noses and glasses. They looked like 1917 bolsheviks. Not exactly the handsome, blonde haired, descendants of rus vikings.[/QUOTE]:wacko: Dark hair AND glasses? Godfrey, that is some damning evidence!
[img]http://www.nbp-info.org/images/limonov.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.nbp-info.org/RussiaWithoutPutin/limonov_obr.jpg[/img]
Doesn't look like either Dark hair (kinda greyish looks like) or a big nose.
2005-06-26 21:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=folkandfaith]Okay.. But why does Communism always have to be International? Aren't those that give a rats prat about the state of affairs in the world and the state of European peoples well being in the world today "international" in their outlook? I would say so.
Communism at least maintained an ethnic purity that the west with its Capitalism has not been able to do. B[/B]
The idea of NB'ism is essentially that it too is Nationalist or National and that Stalin took an idea that was formerly supposedly internationalist in outlook, and made it a Nationalist outlook. Red and Brown. Nationalist and Socialist.
Hitler once commented that the main difference between himself and the Communists was that he had put into practise what "the pen pushers" had merely spoke about. Was his worldview any less internationalist then say Stalins or Guevera's?
Castro and Guevara I would say were very Nationalistic as was Quadafi and his ideas. All are called "Socialist" but that it is simply reductionist in view and too simple for a broad range of ideas.[/QUOTE]Here is an interesting link on Yockey and National Bolshevism
[QUOTE]The real key to Yockey, however, is summed up in the term "National Bolshevik", a somewhat obscure yet very important strand of the 1920's Conservative Revolution, and one which is increasingly important today. The term "National Bolshevik" refers to an ambiguous minority current that appeared in the revolutionary wave in Europe immediately following World War I. The term was first used by Bela Kun, head of the short-lived Communist government in Hungary in 1919, and cropped up in some statements of Karl Radek, the Communist revolutionary who conducted Comintern business from his prison cell in Berlin in the same year, meeting with members of the German business(4) and military elite as well as with the German radical left. (He also laid the foundation for Russia's commercial treaty with Attaturk in 1920, concluded even as Attaturk was murdering leading members of the Turkish Communist Party.) In 1923, the German CP undertook the brief "Schlageter turn"(5) of several months during which it worked with the Nazis in a campaign against the Versailles Treaty, staging rallies and sharing podiums from which Ruth Fischer attacked "Jewish capital" in a way sometimes difficult to distinguish from fascist rhetoric(6). Already in 1922, Germany had signed the Rapallo treaty with the Soviet Union, allowing the defeated German army to to use the Ukraine for secret training and maneuvers banned under the Versailles Treaty. Because of Germany's central position in continental Europe, the possibility of a German- Russian rapprochement against the West often hovered over European power politics, posing a direct threat to Britain and France, and much of the foreign policy of the two major world empires was aimed at preventing just such an alliance. Germany since 1870 had been the "new power" threatening British and French hegemony , and German support of different kinds for anti-colonial movements in the British and French empires (which dated from the pre-1914 Kaiserreich) was a constant problem for the latter. Thus in 1922 when the Rapallo treaty brought Germany into an alliance with revolutionary Russia, there was general consternation in Anglo-French ruling circles. In 1932, (as in 1923) the German Communist Party again cooperated with the Nazis (7) in strikes and street actions against the "main enemy", the "social-fascist" German Social Democrats, a perspective they bizarrely maintained even after Hitler seized power and put them into concentration camps, expressed in their slogan "After Hitler Comes Our Turn". Finally, the consternation occasioned by Rapallo was completely eclipsed by the impact of the Stalin-Hitler Pact in 1939.
But "National Bolshevism" refers to much more than just a rapprochement between Germany and Russia, or tactical collaboration between Communists and Nazis against liberals and Social Democrats. It condenses a series of attitudes which reach far beyond Europe, and which have wider currency in the contemporary world than is generally recognized: hence the importance of Yockey and of Coogan's study of Yockey. National Bolshevism is one of the most extreme forms of appropriation of elements of the revolutionary socialist movement for the preservation of class society. Weimar Germany from 1918 to 1933 was a laboratory of a myriad of currents thrown up by the simultaneous potential of working-class revolution (1918-1921) and of the extreme reaction (which borrowed significantly from the workers' movement) brought to bear against that potential, culminating in Hitler's triumph in 1933. Though figures such as Bela Kun and Karl Radek are better known, National Bolshevism entered the workers' movement most dramatically in Hamburg and Bremen in 1920, articulated by the two German ex-Wobblies Wolffheim and Laufenberg, who threw themselves into the German workers' councils that sprung up after World War I. For Wolffheim and Laufenberg, as for a number of other currents of the early 1920's in Germany and elsewhere(8), workers' revolution was the royal road to the national revolution; for the National Bolsheviks, the Russian Revolution was itself a national revolution(9). ([B]To his credit, Lenin called National Bolshevism "eine himmelschreiende Absurditaet", roughly, a "monstrous absurdity". [/B] Unfortunately, other figures of the Third International were not so careful.)
The National Bolsheviks, and later Yockey, saw the cosmopolitan proletarian internationalism of Lenin, Trotsky and the early Russian Revolution as a superficial veneer which was cast aside by Stalin(10). "National Bolshevism" ultimately transposes Marx's theory of the war between the classes to an international theory of struggle between "bourgeois nations" and "proletarian nations", and buries the singularity and autonomy of the working class (the international class par excellence) in a mystique of the state and the nation. In the interwar period, the main "bourgeois nations" (or plutocracies, as Georges Sorel, among others, called them) were Britain and France; after 1945, the same logic was transposed to the new center of world capital, the United States. And nowhere moreso than in the work of Francis Yockey. The "proletarian nations" were first of all Germany and Italy, but the term applied equally (if not moreso) to all the "new nations" created by the Versailles Treaty, beginning with Eastern and Central Europe, not to mention the Latin American nations under the thumb of Anglo-French or American finance capital, and last but hardly least the growing nationalist ferment in the colonial world, a ferment encouraged, as indicated earlier, by successive German governments.
It is still little recognized today how ideologies first developed in interwar Europe to describe the tensions between the "core" bourgeois democracies and the "periphery"(11) of "young" or "new" nations were exported to the semi-colonial and colonial world, often directly through the influence of "National Bolshevik" or later National Socialist figures,
and after 1945 by the Nazis who fled to the Middle East and Latin America. After 1918, dozens of new nations emerged from the four defeated empires (Hohenzollern Prussia, Habsburg Austria-Hungary, Romanov Russia and the Ottomans) and after 1945, dozens more appeared in Africa, the Middle East and the rest of Asia from the breakup of the British and French empires. [B]In most of these "new nations", as well as in the semi-colonial countries of Latin America (Peron's Argentina and Vargas's Brazil come to mind), there was a real or potential local elite that recycled alloyed or unalloyed "National Bolshevism" from its original Central and Eastern European interwar sources into international "left" "anti-imperialist" currency.[/B] [B]The 1960's Western leftist admirers of Chou en-lai and Lin Piao would have perhaps been surprised to learn that the latter's occasional references to the struggle between "bourgeois nations" and "proletarian nations" had been articulated decades earlier by Joseph Goebbels and Gregor Strasser. It would have been less of a surprise, or none at all, to Francis Yockey[/B].
[URL=http://home.earthlink.net/~lrgoldner/yockey.html]An American National Bolshevik[/URL][/QUOTE]