← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · darkstar
Thread ID: 13893 | Posts: 21 | Started: 2004-05-26
2004-05-26 07:36 | User Profile
It seems to me that organizing white racialist political organizations is rather premature. There needs to be a broad base of support before meddling with DC or a state capital is useful. The question, then, is how do we build this support over the coming 5-15 years?
Websites are very useful in exposing people to WR ideas, but are better suited to refining them. The printed word seems to have much more power, particularly if you can get a decent publisher to put it out.
Thus I suggest that the most effective action to take at present for those interested in bringing around more white to 'our' side is writing books that are likely to get published by organizations with some ability to market them.
Transaction publishers is probably the best bet here, but depending on what one writes, an a standard academic press might be work.
What I would like to know is, first of all, what publishers seem even remotely friendly to pro-white ideas?
Second: what topics and writing strategies would maximize 'slipping under the radar' of the philosemitic publishing world (one which of course harbors rather a number of not-so-philosemitic editors and acquisitions managers) together with preservation of still valuable message?
2004-05-26 11:31 | User Profile
Great questions.
I don't have any clear answers, but I do have one idea that we might consider.
I think that the US mail is our best bet. It would take a lot to remove us from that, IMHO, and indeed we could find ourselves booted off the Internet in the not-too-distant future. We should make plans in any event.
My idea is to organize a mass mailing business that could send out enormous amounts of information cheaply. Of course, that's not an original idea. World Net Daily and Etherzone have a mail order business combined with their website, but they pay for their own content.
I suggest that maybe we could use our mass mailing capability as a way to extend the reach of content we could take from others (with their permisison, of course). Yggdrasil's work is all open to us, as just one example. I'll bet that if you offerred to mass mail articles by some of our usual suspects in exchange for including a footer with their website on each page, many more would agree.
Maybe that could develop as we go along into mass mailings of DVD's with donated video content.
Naturally, originaldissent.com would be a footer on every page, and we could use this to build membership here that would in turn help build circulation on the other end.
Financing is of course the trick, but I think that we'd have to start out small with an operation based on donations, and then try to work in a little mass-mailing advertising to offset the costs. If we get the right combination of stuff, maybe it could work.
Maybe.
It's the only idea I have. I'm willing to donate $$$ to get it started.
Walter
2004-05-26 14:25 | User Profile
As a racialist writer, I would say that to promote our ideas we should forget about the mainstream publishing houses and concentrate more on vanity presses and the like. iUniverse and Author House (formerly 1st Books Library) are good self-publishing routes and have the benefit of being sold online at Amazon.com and BarnesandNoble.com, thus reaching thousands of people.
Second, I think that for racialist topics, fiction has greater widespread appeal than nonfiction. Pierce's "The Turner Diaries" has sold over 300,000 copies; probably the best-selling self-published book of all time. The best-selling nonfiction is probably Duke's "My Awakening" which is selling well because of the notoriety of the author (not that its a bad book, 'cause I love it).
The Internet is a great boon to racialist writers allowing them to promote themselves on Amazon.com and BN.com as well as other racialist sites like Stormfront and OriginalDissent.com. For instance, I get to mention that my dystopian fiction novel "Utopia X" is now available from iUniverse.com and has earned their Editor's Choice Award. [url]http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/book_detail.asp?isbn=0-595-31619-0[/url] :wink:
[QUOTE=darkstar]It seems to me that organizing white racialist political organizations is rather premature. There needs to be a broad base of support before meddling with DC or a state capital is useful. The question, then, is how do we build this support over the coming 5-15 years?
Websites are very useful in exposing people to WR ideas, but are better suited to refining them. The printed word seems to have much more power, particularly if you can get a decent publisher to put it out.
Thus I suggest that the most effective action to take at present for those interested in bringing around more white to 'our' side is writing books that are likely to get published by organizations with some ability to market them.
Transaction publishers is probably the best bet here, but depending on what one writes, an a standard academic press might be work.
What I would like to know is, first of all, what publishers seem even remotely friendly to pro-white ideas?
Second: what topics and writing strategies would maximize 'slipping under the radar' of the philosemitic publishing world (one which of course harbors rather a number of not-so-philosemitic editors and acquisitions managers) together with preservation of still valuable message?[/QUOTE]
2004-05-27 00:32 | User Profile
Walter, I wholeheartedly agree with you on all points. I'd make a donation as well.
Feric, I read The Turner Diaries a dozen years back and found it interesting, but already had a predisposition against blacks and Jews. I don't doubt that good racialist fiction would help our cause, but I think what is needed is a message that caters to those that are almost completely out of the racialist loop. I suggest short material, something like a modern day "International Jew" by Henry Ford. Perhaps different messages designed to be mailed to followers of different political parties. If we had mailing lists for Libertarian propaganda for example and played the liberty angle with them, for liberals, something about the Bush Zionist cabal and so on. As things get tighter when the internet is censored, material under 20 pages or so would fly under the radar more easily than books. This could be anonymously mailed using false return addresses.
2004-05-27 18:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=darkstar][I][COLOR=Red]What I would like to know is, first of all, what publishers seem even remotely friendly to pro-white ideas?[/COLOR][/I]
Second: what topics and writing strategies would maximize 'slipping under the radar' of the philosemitic publishing world (one which of course harbors rather a number of not-so-philosemitic editors and acquisitions managers) together with preservation of still valuable message?[/QUOTE]The answer to question #1 is damn few. When the issue of Jews arises, even the most lould-mouthed, freedom of speech loving jackal loses whatever courage he ever had. The exceptions are very, very, very few.
2004-05-27 18:47 | User Profile
Mailing video content may be a good idea, because Americans hate reading as much as they like watching TV. Video media is cheaper in the form of a DVD, as well as its postage is too.
2004-05-27 19:49 | User Profile
--As to these ideas about mailing flyers or electronic media: yes, this is great stuff! THIS is precisely the sort of thing we should be working on. How can we start getting an organization in place to take steps to do this? I think money might be less of an issue that finding someone with the time, energy, and safety from persecution who can get the ball rolling.
--Looking over what some others have written, I conclude that people are skeptical concerning the possibility of getting anything useful published by a mainstream publishers. This may be, but I would again suggest that one should not even think about trying to get involved with elections and the like if one cannot even get a book put out by a publishers with a reputation. And I would urge all of you with writing talent to think about putting a book together that manages to avoid much discussion of Jews--probably the best thing here is just to refer to 'controveries' in Buchanan, Sobran, MacDonald, and more minor sources, without taking a definite viewpoint. There are many more subjects to write about, such as portrayls of whites and Southerns in the media, materialism in the culture, the decline of the Christian church, Le Pen, freedom of association laws, etc.
The other possibility is to go for the 'Did Jews really influence us to attack Iraq out of loyalty to Israel angle?' But this would have to approached as if one did not know the answer before hand, and one can hardly believe one is writing things that might--lo!--in some way cast a negative light on the normally ever-innocent, ever-mortally-threatened in all places, ever-noble Jew.
--Thinking about activism, it seems that we are somewhat sad movement. Apart the occasional Southern protest, we basically are represented by neo-Nazi's and skinheads when it comes to the world of street and 'event' activism. No 'Million White Racialist March,' no 'the police arrested thousands of white nationalist protestors' story.
This is all quite understandable, as few are going to lose their job for protesting the right of homosexuals to give each others AIDs, blacks to languish on welfare, infants to have their brains sucked out, women to be child-less perverts, etc. But for most of us, it would not look too good to be on the front page under a caption saying, 'White supremacists call for pure evil,' with a story written by Judy Rosenweisenstein explaining how you just advocated the immediate enslavement of all non-whites and were generally 'anti-Semitic.'
Thus we need to think about activism that doesn't involve masses of people flaunting their IDs to the press. Maybe anonymity is not necessary, but names and faces need to be kept low-key for all but those who have themselves the funding to forget about being pc; or those we can eventually fund to be the same. Mass mailings would seem to foot the bill, particularily if attached to a website. More conferences, well-advertised and aimed at the non-movement, common type would be great. Going door to door to recruit for some low-key pro-white organization would be another idea. Doing similar things with white youths would likewise be fine.
What else??????
Maybe a few protests on more 'legitimate areas,' such as immigration. If you could organize these around racialist themes, but demonstrate on more neutrally 'anti-immigration' one, this might be useful.
2004-05-27 20:09 | User Profile
Any efforts of this nature should be top quality. No swastikas and Hitler pictures, no poor grammar or spelling (rules me out), no unverifiable information. We must have the humility to run our work by some critics within the movement before sending it out to hundreds or thousands or people.
There is little danger of persecution if we just send material thru the mail. I like the DVD idea, but have no idea how much this would cost in volume, postage included. I wonder why NA is not doing this, as they have the manpower in membership.
I do something like this on a small scale. I have a flyer consisting of quotes by Jews that I place in every postage paid envelope that I get in the mail. Each of us gets 2 or 3 of these a day from political parties and all sorts of "good causes" wanting donations, NRA for example. You can leave flyers all over. I have seen them on the advertising displays above gas pumps and even found one in some merchandise I purchased at Wal-Mart. I have left them in magazines at doctor's offices and other waiting rooms. Always carry a dozen everywhere you go, you'll come up with all sorts of ideas.
2004-05-27 20:22 | User Profile
Well, what you do is very useful, and I would like to see others do the same. But there is a lot of danger, in the area of employability. That is a major bar for out movement. Again, one that doesn't apply to non-white activists, homosexuals, socialists, feminists, etc.
And I would like to see some mass mailings that don't mention Jews. That can stay on the website referred to in the flyer, and even there such talk such mostly be in the discussion forum. Instead, the flyer should mention anti-white views in the media, changing demographics, immigration, and low white-fertility rates. This would be the kind of flyer that might generate a lot of initial interest. Again, though, who is going to be able to step forward to organize such?
2004-05-27 20:48 | User Profile
I solved the employability problem by retiring.
I see no reason to wait for someone to step forward and organize, as we can do much of this ourselves on a small scale and it will evolve. Those at greatest risk of repercussions can transfer their operations/materials to another. If one of us comes up with an effective cookie cutter method of getting the truth out, many including me will make contributions if needed.
There is value in material that doesn't name the Jew. This is best for higher profile operations, but if you're doing covert mailings you might as well get to the point. I participate in forums that don't permit Jew-scrutiny, so I just educate everyone there about the dynamics of power and how the media fits in. I teach them about secret societies so that one day they will figure out what these "useful idiots" are being used for.
2004-05-27 22:31 | User Profile
I think this raises an interesting possibility: perhaps retired peole, along with perhaps housewives (because they are prettier), could be 'the face' of white racialist movement. The principle activities here are receiving and paying funds, hiring outside services, anwering inquiries by phone and in person, and perhaps giving interviews. The main thing is being able to hire need services.
I agree that as the circulation gets more limited, there are greater possibilities for discussing the Jewish question. However, I would still like this to be only one part of an overall message, and I would like the discussion of Jews to refer to very solid points, such as highly-credible date concerning Jewish involvement in the media and the overwhelming support of the Jewish community for leftwing causes such as open-borders and affirmative action.
More involved discussion by saved for the webboards that people are alterted to. Many will be open to white racialist ideas who will need a lot of time to grasp the Jewish question, so this will make them feel more comfortable.
2004-05-28 00:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=travis] As things get tighter when the internet is censored, material under 20 pages or so would fly under the radar more easily than books. This could be anonymously mailed using false return addresses.[/QUOTE]
I think this is a good idea. Most people give 0% critical thought to race issues. Instead they have their favorite platitudes "Diversity is our strength" "Race is a social construct" "Hispanics do jobs that whites won't" which substitute for thought. We should put together a 20-40page booklet that could fit in your back pocket which responds quickly and consisely to these platitudes. I've started such a project at a website here [url]http://www.stormloader.com/need2know/[/url] but it's not finished and could be expanded; or printed and passed out free of charge.
2004-05-28 01:29 | User Profile
The site looks good. If you want any help with finishing the answers, do let us know. Still, I think the main problem is getting people to mail it as a pamphlet, and knowing who to mail it to.
Also, perhaps you could created a more easily printable version? Or maybe you have one already, and I didn't notice.
Here in an article on a Libertarian direct-mail campaign. [url]http://archive.lp.org/lpn/9906-Archimedes.html[/url]
In short, massive bucks seem to be involved. This seems to be a chicken-and-egg problem. How do you reach potential donors before you have donations to do so?
Perhaps the focus on printed fliers is misguided (though I still think properly published books could make a huge, catalystic difference). What about creating and promoting the right sort of internet site?
I think that the OD forum is fairly close the right mix to promote, although I wouldn't want to see any articles that were along the lines of Franco's posts or that embraced the neo-Nazi's. A good mix of religios and non-religious white racialists would be excellent however.
Still, the dynamic content on OD is mostly in the forum. It would be better to have another site linked to the forum that had more of a newsletter format. Perhaps people could start by writing more professional articles for OD as very long posts, which could then be selected from to form a base for the newsletter articles.
In the meantime, we could at least discuss the merits of the various articles.
About promotions, though: I am not sure how to do this. One idea I had was advertising in the AmRen newsletter. It would also be good to advertise in Chronicles, but they are pricey. So too are advertisements on the web meant to reach a large audience. Also, I do not which advertising portals would accept advertisements for racialist sites. ???????
2004-05-28 07:03 | User Profile
[QUOTE=darkstar]--As to these ideas about mailing flyers or electronic media: yes, this is great stuff! THIS is precisely the sort of thing we should be working on. How can we start getting an organization in place to take steps to do this? I think money might be less of an issue that finding someone with the time, energy, and safety from persecution who can get the ball rolling.
Well we've got and the internet in general for a method, and forums like these as a sort of organization.
Frankly I don't see the need for fliers or any of that stuff, while we've got the internet, which serves the same audience, and is far easier and cheaper. The basic problem is we aren't using the internet effectively. Look at the time we spend here arguing with people like Trisk.
It may be useful for giving ourselves confidence in our identity, but it certainly doesn't help reach the masses.
As for an organization, OD for one could benefit from far more resources and input than it is given. Its the best forum I've seen, and basically its always been Tex operating it on a shoestring, financial, technical, organizational, publicity, etc.
--Looking over what some others have written, I conclude that people are skeptical concerning the possibility of getting anything useful published by a mainstream publishers. This may be, but I would again suggest that one should not even think about trying to get involved with elections and the like if one cannot even get a book put out by a publishers with a reputation. And I would urge all of you with writing talent to think about putting a book together that manages to avoid much discussion of Jews--probably the best thing here is just to refer to 'controveries' in Buchanan, Sobran, MacDonald, and more minor sources, without taking a definite viewpoint. There are many more subjects to write about, such as portrayls of whites and Southerns in the media, materialism in the culture, the decline of the Christian church, Le Pen, freedom of association laws, etc.
Actually there are all sorts of existing organizations out there publishing books of sorts. CoCC, AmRen on the paleo side, I don't know who all else on the WN side.
Tere are also paleo organizations out there. I think because of our splendid isolation here, and the constant work of closet AP's like "Triskelion" we've all concocted reasons why this sort of practical political activity does not meet our pristine standards.
Thus we need to think about activism that doesn't involve masses of people flaunting their IDs to the press. Maybe anonymity is not necessary, but names and faces need to be kept low-key for all but those who have themselves the funding to forget about being pc; or those we can eventually fund to be the same. Mass mailings would seem to foot the bill, particularily if attached to a website. More conferences, well-advertised and aimed at the non-movement, common type would be great. Going door to door to recruit for some low-key pro-white organization would be another idea. Doing similar things with white youths would likewise be fine.
Well sounds to me like more Am.Ren. type stuff again or maybe at the extreme CoCC. All well and fine, but again there are types like Trisk on this forum that would immediately try to raise the tenor of discussion to the "name the jew" level so all the "low-key" aspects would be gone, and we would immediately be driven out of the public eye again back underground or to internet anonymity.
What else??????
Maybe a few protests on more 'legitimate areas,' such as immigration. If you could organize these around racialist themes, but demonstrate on more neutrally 'anti-immigration' one, this might be useful.[/QUOTE]
All sorts of things to be done here. Question is, is anybody really interested in doing them. Much easier to whine from the anonymity of the internet at what a bad job the other are doing.
2004-05-28 08:50 | User Profile
To be honest, I can't really make heads or tales of what you are saying, other than that AmRen or CoCC might be turned to. Do you want to do more with OD? Is that feasible? I don't talk about this option because I don't know that OD really has room to grow, and I don't think planning to burder its operator without consulting him is probably not a good idea.
Yes, I suppose AmRen would be one example of another 'publisher.' The CoCC strikes me as rather weird, but I suppose that is also another option. However, I think this is missing the point of the kind of marketing and prestige you can get from a more mainstream publisher.
As I say in the post you apparently didn't get to, I would favor web-based approaches over fliers for cost reasons. However, fliers do have their advantages, in that not everyone is very plugged into the Internet, and also somehow don't assign it the same prestige as print.
Yes, there are a lot of things to be done, but what exactly?
2004-05-28 10:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Mailing video content may be a good idea, because Americans hate reading as much as they like watching TV. Video media is cheaper in the form of a DVD, as well as its postage is too.[/QUOTE]
Bingo.
And as Ygg points out getting the content probably wouldn't be all that hard - we'd ask for cop crime videos and other amatuer stuff via the internet.
I imagine a sort of The American Conservative on DVD, but with both print and video clips. It would be cheaper than paper too, I'll bet, as you say.
Walter
2004-05-28 17:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=darkstar]To be honest, I can't really make heads or tales of what you are saying, other than that AmRen or CoCC might be turned to.
The basic point is that there is a whole lot out there already that isn't being used effectively. I'm talking about everything. Reasons for that are one of the main things I am discussing on this forum. One of them of course ghsa been the long time insistence that for a WN group to advocate anything short of the day of the rope is treason.
[quote=Darkstar]]Do you want to do more with OD? Is that feasible? I don't talk about this option because I don't know that OD really has room to grow, and I don't think planning to burder its operator without consulting him is probably not a good idea.
I doubt operator would be opposed to any reasonable plan to grow, especialy as it supplies him with needed additional resources and doesn't pose a threat from outside influences. Is it feasible? Bigod yes. Look at Free Republic. The only thing limiting this or another forum from becoming a Free Republicof the hard right is the attitudes and composition of that hard right, as we have discovered on this forum.
Yes, I suppose AmRen would be one example of another 'publisher.' The CoCC strikes me as rather weird, but I suppose that is also another option. However, I think this is missing the point of the kind of marketing and prestige you can get from a more mainstream publisher.
Well ther are mainstream books published of great value. Death of the West is one. However we've done little with it, again I think in part because of the attitude toward Buchanan and Buchananism instilled by clowns, dimwits, and AP's like Triskelion.
As I say in the post you apparently didn't get to, I would favor web-based approaches over fliers for cost reasons. However, fliers do have their advantages, in that not everyone is very plugged into the Internet, and also somehow don't assign it the same prestige as print.
Yes, there are a lot of things to be done, but what exactly?[/QUOTE]
Take your pick, unless you want to appoint me of someone else fuehrer and take orders. Otherwise I gues you'll just have to decide yourself. there are many things to do, but we'll never agree on everything.
2004-05-28 18:17 | User Profile
We don't need to agree for you to come up with some suggestions that I might find interesting. I am simply saying that it important to write up some brainstorming.
Well, what I think OD needs is some advertising. As I said, buying an ad in AmRen is not so expensive. Chronicles is also a good idea, but it is a little pricier. American Conservative would be great, but I am not sure about their prices.
I would be willing to contribute some funds here via paypal, but we need a fundraiser (which might also include a solicitation of funds for general expenses). I would suggest crafting a link on the homepage, along with a statement which clearly and explicitly states that donor names will not be shared by the board owner with anyone, and that records of those names will be destroyed within one year.
Again, I also think we need a website with newsletter type commentary which is slightly more toward the AmRen level on the Jewish question. This would use OD as the its discussion board. I may try to start such a thing if no one else does, once I see how my finances shape up over the summer. But I would prefer that you, Okiereddust, do this.
2004-05-28 18:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE=darkstar]We don't need to agree for you to come up with some suggestions that I might find interesting. I am simply saying that it important to write up some brainstorming.
Well, what I think OD needs is some advertising. As I said, buying an ad in AmRen is not so expensive. Chronicles is also a good idea, but it is a little pricier. American Conservative would be great, but I am not sure about their prices. We've discussed advertising on this forum before, I think there were some good ideas. Searching through our
[url=http://forums.originaldissent.com/forumdisplay.php?f=40&page=3&sort=lastpost&order=desc&pp=20&daysprune=365] cyber activism forum[/url]
and the real world activism forum may locate some of these.
Another thing that could be done of course, simply in cyberspace, is to solicit other websites to link to this forum. My personal preference for a internet operation is interbnet advertising, you reach the same sort of people. Right now I think only SF and a couple of other sites link to us.
Of course the more moderate sites are more hesitant. You ,ight be too, especially when a significant and highly visible portion of OD considers such groups to be "traitors" as they at least have done in the past.
I would be willing to contribute some funds here via paypal, but we need a fundraiser (which might also include a solicitation of funds for general expenses). I would suggest crafting a link on the homepage, along with a statement which clearly and explicitly states that donor names will not be shared by the board owner with anyone, and that records of those names will be destroyed within one year.
Talk to Tex on the fundraising aspects. I think we do something along those lines, but perhaps we could do better.
Again, I also think we need a website with newsletter type commentary which is slightly more toward the AmRen level on the Jewish question. This would use OD as the its discussion board. I may try to start such a thing if no one else does, once I see how my finances shape up over the summer. But I would prefer that you, Okiereddust, do this.[/QUOTE]
Well we do have the article section at the front. Other sites have tried to do the same thing, such as Sartre's BATR. If a high profile website could be created it certainly would be a boon to our cause, as would be efforts to link these differnt sites more closely together. But so far, although Linder seems comical, he seems to be the one shing success in terms of readership in these regards.
2004-05-28 18:58 | User Profile
Web advertising is also good. Just getting linked to is probably insufficient, given who is likely to link to OD. But again, costs are involved, and there needs to be some very prominent, streamlined approach to getting funds. Really, ever page of OD should include a solicitation of funds.
As far as a dynamic-newsletter webpage goes, the main thing is to be able to solicite many articles from many good writers. Perhaps it is just a question of how many good writers are out there who have thought things through, but who are also willing to spend their time in un-compensated, Internet writing.
One thing I will note is the more I think about these issues, the more optimistic I get. There are so many bars to white racialist activism--the largest being the issue of employability, the chilling effect of the Federal Govt.'s EEOC/AA labor laws, and confiscation of wealth to support leftist academics. This suggests that the main reason we don't see more support for our ideas is not that they are not appealing to whites, but rather government supression.
2004-05-29 03:36 | User Profile
Here's a white racialist novel that might interest some of you:
[img]http://www.heartlandusa.org/PUBLISHING%20NEWS%20IMAGES/ORDER%20HOLD%20BACK%20THIS%20DAY%20PAGE/HBTDAnimatedOrderPageBannerWithBlinkingOrderYourCopyToday704x88Version222.gif[/img]
[url="http://www.heartlandusa.org/orderholdbackthisday.htm"]http://www.heartlandusa.org/orderholdbackthisday.htm[/url]