← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · il ragno
Thread ID: 13820 | Posts: 12 | Started: 2004-05-21
2004-05-21 20:19 | User Profile
[I]Here's where the Podhoretzim find out if Murray Rothstein can hold up his end of the deal. Will this new wrinkle - surely a standalone major scandal on its own - snowball into a major story; or has MTV America reached its 15 minutes' attention-span saturation with 'downer' Iraqi-torture stories? Will the major players, gunshy of Jonah and Rush calling them unAmerican and of triggering a FoxNews billboard campaign, even play this big...or stage-whistle to feign innocence as they kick it under the love seat?[/I]
[url]http://www.denverpost.com/cda/article/print/0,1674,36%257E11676%257E2157003,00.html[/url]
[FONT=Franklin Gothic Medium][SIZE=4]Brutal interrogation in Iraq[/SIZE][/FONT] [I]Five detainees' deaths probed[/I] By Miles Moffeit Denver Post Staff Writer
[SIZE=2][FONT=Book Antiqua][COLOR=DarkRed]Wednesday, May 19, 2004 -
'VERY TROUBLING'
Pentagon records provide the clearest view yet of the U.S. tactics used at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere to coax secrets from Iraqis.
Brutal interrogation techniques by U.S. military personnel are being investigated in connection with the deaths of at least five Iraqi prisoners in war-zone detention camps, Pentagon documents obtained by The Denver Post show.
The deaths include the killing in November of a high-level Iraqi general who was shoved into a sleeping bag and suffocated, according to the Pentagon report. The documents contradict an earlier Defense Department statement that said the general died "of natural causes" during an interrogation. Pentagon officials declined to comment on the new disclosure.
Another Iraqi military officer, records show, was asphyxiated after being gagged, his hands tied to the top of his cell door. Another detainee died "while undergoing stress technique interrogation," involving smothering and "chest compressions," according to the documents.
Details of the death investigations, involving at least four different detention facilities including the Abu Ghraib prison, provide the clearest view yet into war-zone interrogation rooms, where intelligence soldiers and other personnel have sometimes used lethal tactics to try to coax secrets from prisoners, including choking off detainees' airways. Other abusive strategies involve sitting on prisoners or bending them into uncomfortable positions, records show.
"Torture is the only thing you can call this," said a Pentagon source with knowledge of internal investigations into prisoner abuses. "There is a lot about our country's interrogation techniques that is very troubling. These are violations of military law."
Internal records obtained by The Post point to wider problems beyond the Abu Ghraib prison and demonstrate that some coercive tactics used at Abu Ghraib have shown up in interrogations elsewhere in the war effort. The documents also show more than twice as many allegations of detainee abuse - 75 - are being investigated by the military than previously known. Twenty-seven of the abuse cases involve deaths; at least eight are believed to be homicides.
No criminal punishments have been announced in the interrogation deaths, even though three deaths occurred last year.
Beyond the interrogation deaths, the military documents show that investigators are examining other abuse cases involving soldiers using choking techniques during interrogations, including the handling of prisoners at a detention facility in Samarra, Iraq, where soldiers allegedly "forced into asphyxiation numerous detainees."
Also under investigation are reports that soldiers in Iraq abused women and children. One April 2003 case, which is awaiting trial, involves a reservist who pointed a loaded pistol at an Iraqi child in front of witnesses, saying he should kill the youngster to "send a message" to other Iraqis.
Pentagon officials, asked to comment on synopses of the cases provided by The Post, released a statement saying they do not discuss ongoing investigations. "Make no mistake; we will take whatever corrective actions are determined to be appropriate," the statement said. "The offenders will be dealt with, and action will be taken to prevent such situations from happening again."
Military officials and the Bush administration face international scrutiny over the mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, which entailed a range of physical assault, mental abuse and sexual humiliation by military police officers. The role of military intelligence personnel in abuse cases has been murky. On Tuesday, The New York Times reported that an American officer who led interrogations at the prison acknowledged that intelligence personnel sometimes instructed military police to mete out abuse.
In the case of Iraqi Major General Abed Hamed Mowhoush, who headed Saddam Hussein's air force, intelligence officers' role was documented in abuse that soon turned fatal, documents show,
Mowhoush, considered a "high-priority target," turned himself in for questioning in November, according to documents. After two weeks in custody at an Al Qaim detention facility, northwest of Baghdad, two soldiers with the 66th Military Intelligence Company, slid a sleeping bag over his body, except for his feet, and began questioning him as they rolled him repeatedly from his back to his stomach, the documents show.
Then, one of the soldiers, an interrogator, sat on Mowhoush's chest and placed his hands over the prisoner's mouth, according to the report: "During this interrogation, the (general) became non-responsive, medics were called and he was later pronounced dead." According to the documents, "The preliminary report lists the cause of death as asphyxia due to smothering and chest compressions."
Immediately after Mowhoush's death was reported, U.S. military officials released a statement acknowledging he died during an interview.
"Mowhoush said he didn't feel well and subsequently lost consciousness," read the press statement, which is still posted on a Pentagon website. "The soldier questioning him found no pulse, then conducted CPR and called for medical authorities. According to the on-site surgeon, it appeared Mowhouse died of natural causes."
An investigative report was finalized in late January, and the interrogating soldiers received reprimands, in addition to being barred from further interviews, documents show. According to the report obtained by The Post, commanders have not taken criminal action against the soldiers, citing an ongoing investigation.
Criminal punishments apparently have not been pursued in the other interrogation-death cases, which also are ongoing.
Another Iraqi prisoner was assaulted by interrogators on two occasions in early January of this year at the FOB Rifles Base in Asad, Iraq, documents state. U.S. forces arrested him for allegedly possessing explosive devices, and he was later placed in an isolation cell for questioning by special-forces soldiers with the Operational Detachment Alpha, where he was shackled to a pipe that ran along the ceiling. After he was allowed to sit, he lunged at one of the soldiers, grabbing his shirt. "The three ODA members punched and kicked (the prisoner) in the stomach and ribs for approximately one to two minutes," documents show.
Three days later, the prisoner escaped from his cell and was recaptured.
During questioning, the detainee refused to follow instructions. When he refused orders to remain quiet in his cell, his hands were tied to the top of his cell door, the report shows. When he still refused, he was gagged, the report notes, and five minutes later, a soldier "noticed that he was slumped down and hanging from his shackles" dead.
According to the investigative report, special forces commanders are reviewing "consideration of misconduct" in the case.
Other prisoner deaths under homicide investigation, records show:
The beating in early April of a detainee at the LSA Diamondback facility in Mosul, Iraq, who was found dead in his sleep. A death report showed "blunt- force trauma to the torso and positional asphyxia." He had gone to sleep immediately after questioning by members of the Naval Special Warfare Team. No disciplinary action was noted in the report, but the investigation continues, the report states.
In June, at a "classified interrogation facility" in Baghdad, an Iraqi detainee was found dead after being restrained in a chair for questioning. "While in custody the detainee was subjected to both physical and psychological stress," the report shows. An autopsy determined that he died of a "hard, fast blow" to the head. The investigation continues. No disciplinary action was noted.
On Nov. 4, an Iraqi died at Abu Ghraib during an interview by special forces and Navy SEAL soldiers. "An autopsy revealed the cause of death was blunt force trauma as complicated by compromised respiration." The report notes that Navy investigators concluded Navy personnel did not commit a crime leading to the detainee's death. But the investigation, including by CIA officials, is still ongoing. No disciplinary action was noted.
Amid a storm of controversy over prisoner handling in recent weeks, U.S. military officials have launched eight separate internal investigations into abuse cases, administrative procedures and interrogation techniques.
They also have acknowledged that reports of abuse at Abu Ghraib violate the Geneva Conventions and other treaties.
According to Human Rights Watch, which monitors prisoner maltreatment around the world, the patterns of interrogation tactics known as "stress techniques" in the death cases is tantamount to torture and should be investigated by an "independent" body or government.
"It sounds as though the Iraqi general and others were being subjected to extreme techniques we are only just now learning about, and it's clearly cruel and degrading treatment," said Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch. "This highlights the need for independent scrutiny at a minimum by Congress or possibly an independent commission of inquiry."
Of the detainee cases that were not homicides, commanders typically handed down lenient job-related punishments to the accused, instead of seeking criminal convictions. Of 47 punishments given to those accused of prisoner abuse, according to the report, only 15 involved court-martial. Criminal penalties ranged from reprimands to 60 days' confinement.
Unlike civilian practices, in the military, commanders decide whether to send accused soldiers to trial.
Alleged abuses
Military investigations regarding allegations of Iraqi detainee abuse:
April 12, 2004: Member of the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force abused a detainee involved in shooting death of a Marine lieutenant and sergeant. During interrogation, detainee was kicked in the rib cage, punched in kidney area and slapped in the head. Incident being investigated.
Jan. 9, 2004: FOB Rifles Base detainee died while in custody. The detainee, an escapee who had been recaptured, was shackled to the door of his cell with his hands over his head and gagged. Five minutes later, he was found dead. The death is under investigation.
Dec. 31, 2003: Military police officer used butt of M-4 rifle to strike a detainee in the face and on the back of the neck. Then the officer placed the muzzle of his M-4 rifle in the detainee's mouth and pulled trigger on the empty weapon. Officer then chambered a round and pointed the rifle at detainee, firing a round 5 or 6 feet from detainee. The incident is under investigation.
Nov. 26, 2003: At the 3rd ACR detention facility, Iraqi Gen. Abed Hamad Mowhoush, a "high-priority target," was placed inside a sleeping bag with only his feet exposed. He was rolled back and forth while being questioned. One of the interrogators sat on his chest and placed hands over his mouth. He died during the interrogation, and an autopsy confirmed evidence of blunt force trauma to the chest and legs. The interrogating officers were given general officer reprimands, prohibited from conducting further interrogations and referred for consideration of misconduct charges.
Sept. 11, 2003: A guard at the FOB Packhorse detention facility fatally shot a detainee who was throwing rocks. The soldier, who did not follow regulations, was reduced in rank and discharged from the military in lieu of trial by court-martial.
June 13, 2003: A sergeant beat a detainee while his squad leader was present. Sergeant received rank reduction and 60 days' confinement. His commanding officer - who also beat detainees - was charged with dereliction of duty, given a reprimand and fined $2,000.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE] [I]Staff researcher Monnie Nilsson contributed to this report.
Staff writer Miles Moffeit can be reached at 303-820-1415 or [email]mmoffeit@denverpost.com[/email] .[/I]
2004-05-21 21:05 | User Profile
I am sick neigh on to death of this. I was in the Military Police Corp. I graduated first in my class from the MP school when it was at Fort Gordon, Georgia. I was in the eliete MP unit 529th in Heidelberg, Germany. Now I only feel shame. What a damed disgrace. I wished I would have gone awol and served time in the brig then gotten out. I am so ashamed to have ever been associated with the american army.
All this talk about "pride" and "honor" is all horseshit.
This country is washed up. We are through. We are nothing.
Now this is what the bastards will do to us. We must never be captured alive! They have no honor.
I have been a commited Christian for 48 years but now I seriously question this. I am ashamed to be a Christian and a American. I want to flush the flag and the Bible down the commode. Where is god? How can he allow this to happen. I hate this country. I dispise its people. May we all be nuked off the face of the earh!
America has fallen as low as it will ever get. Just think that a bonehead of a christian got us to this point.
We need to spit in the face of every soldier coming back from Iraq!
Any of you flag wavers out there can stick that federal flag up your arse!
2004-05-21 22:00 | User Profile
One insteresting side-effect (or intended effect?) is that Sharon can now do anything and it will pale in comparison to this. The only country that could possibly put a leash on him, the US, has now zero moral authority to lecture shittistanis on torture and bombing civilians.
2004-05-22 06:03 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Sharon can now do anything and it will pale in comparison to this. The only country that could possibly put a leash on him, the US, has now zero moral authority..... [/QUOTE]
[url]http://forums.originaldissent.com/showthread.php?t=13785[/url]
2004-05-22 06:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Samuel]I am sick neigh on to death of this. I was in the Military Police Corp. I graduated first in my class from the MP school when it was at Fort Gordon, Georgia. I was in the eliete MP unit 529th in Heidelberg, Germany. Now I only feel shame. What a damed disgrace. I wished I would have gone awol and served time in the brig then gotten out. I am so ashamed to have ever been associated with the american army.
All this talk about "pride" and "honor" is all horseshit.
This country is washed up. We are through. We are nothing.
Now this is what the bastards will do to us. We must never be captured alive! They have no honor.
I have been a commited Christian for 48 years but now I seriously question this. I am ashamed to be a Christian and a American. I want to flush the flag and the Bible down the commode. Where is god? How can he allow this to happen. I hate this country. I dispise its people. May we all be nuked off the face of the earh!
America has fallen as low as it will ever get. Just think that a bonehead of a christian got us to this point.
We need to spit in the face of every soldier coming back from Iraq!
Any of you flag wavers out there can stick that federal flag up your arse![/QUOTE]
Glad to hear you say it, Samuel!
Your anger is exactly why we must do everything we can (without admitting it, of course) to ensure that ZOG gets mired ever deeper in the Middle East quagmire.
We need hot emotion airmed directly at the neo-Khans. We need to stir the shite with a big stick indeed. We need alienated soldiers itching to feed their medals to the nearest general. We need a draft and a massive explosion on the college campuses. We need more - lots more - outing of the Jews and their role in all of this. We need a massive, no-win war with one billion Muslims. We need war in Korea. We need to bust ZOG's budget, and undermine the last shred of ZOG's credibility in the collective mind of our people (not as small as it often appears) leading to a total collapse of the Empire.
In short, we need Shrub.
Man, I hate to say it, but the more I think about it the more I realize the great good this asshole has done for our cause. We should be grateful to him for his bumbling stupidity.
Walter
2004-05-22 08:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis]Glad to hear you say it, Samuel!
Your anger is exactly why we must do everything we can (without admitting it, of course) to ensure that ZOG gets mired ever deeper in the Middle East quagmire.
We need hot emotion airmed directly at the neo-Khans. We need to stir the shite with a big stick indeed. We need alienated soldiers itching to feed their medals to the nearest general. We need a draft and a massive explosion on the college campuses. We need more - lots more - outing of the Jews and their role in all of this. We need a massive, no-win war with one billion Muslims. We need war in Korea. We need to bust ZOG's budget, and undermine the last shred of ZOG's credibility in the collective mind of our people (not as small as it often appears) leading to a total collapse of the Empire.
In short, we need Shrub.
Man, I hate to say it, but the more I think about it the more I realize the great good this asshole has done for our cause. We should be grateful to him for his bumbling stupidity.
Walter[/QUOTE] I couldnt agree more. However, it might be too late to save the Chimp. The new revelations about Chalabi leaking secrets to the Iranians might tbe the straw that finally breaks the camel's back.
2004-05-23 20:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Samuel] All this talk about "pride" and "honor" is all horseshit.
This country is washed up. We are through. We are nothing. [/QUOTE]
Every decent American should be ashamed of this. I find it hard to believe that there are Christians and conservatives out there defending this crap.
Limbaugh, Hannity et al. are claiming the troops were just blowing off steam! What kind of sick demented wacko blows of steam with this kind of behavior? After years of seeing western values defaced by feminism, marxism and so on, I can't say I am entirely surprised by this whole fiasco but that makes it no less morally repugnant. You can't stick a new recruit in a boot camp for 8 weeks and really expect to wash away 18+ years of vile leftist brainwashing. Boot camp put some discipline into me but the American military ceased being a moral force a long time ago.
Anyone who says it is disrespectful of our troops to complain about this torture is full of it. It is disrespectful to the few honorable troops to allow the idiots in these photos to continue to serve. I had to serve in the military with plenty of moral degenerates, the kind of multi-cultural yahoos who would skip work to hang out in the chow hall watching Jerry Springer, and hooting at the guests as they watched. The only respectful thing to do is start raising standards and decreasing our global commitments so the military can disgorge those who clearly lack any sense of honor.
I do strongly suggest you rethink your idea of spitting on anyone(this would only make the neo-cons feel justified and would demonize the pawns in this game rather than those truly responsible) but you are right that our society is sunk. At least Bush and co are running foriegn policy into the ground; the more allies we lose, the better as far as I am concerned.
2004-05-23 21:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Walter Yannis] We need hot emotion airmed directly at the neo-Khans. We need to stir the shite with a big stick indeed. We need alienated soldiers itching to feed their medals to the nearest general. We need a draft and a massive explosion on the college campuses. We need more - lots more - outing of the Jews and their role in all of this. We need a massive, no-win war with one billion Muslims. We need war in Korea. We need to bust ZOG's budget, and undermine the last shred of ZOG's credibility in the collective mind of our people (not as small as it often appears) leading to a total collapse of the Empire. [/QUOTE] There is a catch. Without context of zhid behavior throughout history and their predation on other peoples, and with analytical abitilies of people disabled by pc propaganda, there's way too much built-in resistance in the system to allow for any significant capitalization on this yet another outing of the zhid.
There are too few prepared minds to make conclusions reaching far enough, let alone those who already know the deal. It will be just another opportunity squandered.
2004-05-24 08:13 | User Profile
A Soviet America coiming to life right before our eyes. :wallbash:
2004-05-24 11:34 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]There is a catch. Without context of zhid behavior throughout history and their predation on other peoples, and with analytical abitilies of people disabled by pc propaganda, there's way too much built-in resistance in the system to allow for any significant capitalization on this yet another outing of the zhid.
There are too few prepared minds to make conclusions reaching far enough, let alone those who already know the deal. It will be just another opportunity squandered.[/QUOTE]
Right, but that's where we come in.
We things to get really bad and then we need to our our Elder Brothers in Faith.
We can do this. Sh*t, we're doing it right now.
Remember that in our own lifetimes the USSR and the Shah's Iran were brought down without the internet and without ANY access to the media at all, but only through leaflets, audio cassettes, and so forth. We can DO THIS.
But only when things get bad enough for people to listen.
Walter
2004-05-24 19:59 | User Profile
The USSR and the Shah's Iran were brought down through leaflets, audio cassettes, and so forth?
:yawn:
2004-05-24 21:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ruffin]The USSR and the Shah's Iran were brought down through leaflets, audio cassettes, and so forth?
:yawn:[/QUOTE]
Well heck yes.
Here's the reference, Mr. Question Man; almost exactly as it appears in Bartleby's:
[url]http://www.bartleby.com/67/819.html[/url]
1722
THE AFGHAN INVASION OF IRAN. Led by Mahmud, the Ghilzays defeated the Safavid army and entered Isfahan after a six-month siege (Oct. 1722). The Safavid shah Sultan Husayn abdicated after declaring the Afghan victor Mahmud his successor. [FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1]Mahmud accomplished this through his brilliant and brutal use of heretofore unseen weaponry, including leaflets, cassette tapes and the like[/SIZE].[/FONT]The Ghilzay Afghan dynasty ruled much of Iran and Afghanistan under Mahmud (1722ââ¬â25) and his successor Ashraf (1725ââ¬â30). But Nadir Shah, the Safavid general, mounted a campaign that expelled the Afghans from Iran and made him master of the country. [FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=1]Nadir accomplished this campaign through his mastery of neurolinguistic methods in his performances broadcast over the airwaves throughout the Ghilzay Afghan domain...[/SIZE][/FONT]