← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · White Iceland
Thread ID: 13631 | Posts: 129 | Started: 2004-05-09
2004-05-09 16:50 | User Profile
Exclusive Exposé for Stormfront
What a long strange trip indeed!
I have it here before me, the... what should I call it... incredible exposure I had no idea I would be making this weekend, but with the spring come the rains, and they are blessed showers of renewal on our folk, especially if you are so lucky as to live in the country. The rains awaken the earth and the air is revitalized by the life-giving scent of the soil.
In the city it is not at all as pleasant in my estimate. When it first starts to rinse down the soul-less buildings of the decaying society and run down the asphalt beneath the traffic it brings the stench of a crypt. I think of the first time I came to New Orleans. As you approach the highway exit ramp you circle above a sort of shanty town packed with the descendants of slaves that were never dealt squarely with. To the other side are the cities of the dead, the necropolis where generations of corpses lend their aroma. When anyone asks me how I liked New Orleans I always say, "It's not so bad once you get used to the smell."
But if the rains are strong, steady and pure, even the city eventually arrives at a heightened state where one can not only feel but smell spring in the air.
Many of us have come to rely too heavily on the internet, where the senses, indeed, the very good sense of even the most honorable among us can be easily deceived. We can slip into a state of mind wherein we believe we are living well online, surrounded by friends. We assure ourselves that it is so much better than television because it is real and stimulates the mind via our interaction. I know a thousand good scenarios that have come out of online contacts, but folks tell me that for every good opportunity there is a very sinister twin lurking in the ether. At least I think that's right. I am not a porn addict, but being a red-blooded male, I have of course stumbled across alluring images on the web that I just couldn't resist giving the right click and save treatment. If you think this is leading into some perverse confession on my part, you are wrong. I am merely qualifying the difference between what I am sure any red-blooded male would stand to justify if the truth were known and the truly prurient and disgusting indulgence of "one of our own (?)" here in cyberspace. So, what I confide here about myself is only so I can stand clean and make these accusations without being hit with that old Christian edict about sinless folks throwing stones or somesuch. I know a lot of folks cling to that tolerant worldview... but sometimes the stone in hand must be thrown, regardless of what code you follow. I would give a worldwide folkish interpretation to the great philosopher William Dudley Pelley's banner attached to his 1930's magazine Liberation. "Eternal Vigilance is America's Security." It is so much more than that... it is the heart of the 14 words and pan-Aryan in scope.
So, I feel I should tell you, stone in hand, that I don't avert my eyes from images of white women in various stages of undress should they catch my attention. I'll come clean! When I was single, sure, I used to subscribe to the Page 3 girls. I also have a weakness for art portraying Aryan women, often en déshabillé. What I am about to turn loose on "one of our own" is NOT natural and CANNOT be justified.
The "movement" for white folkish renewal is often tainted by ignoble characters. We are often accused of boot fetishes, lust after the underaged and any kind of sexual dysfunction which can be hoisted by the jewish Freudian school upon us. This is disgusting to deal with and I feel ill in my stomach as I consider here that it is sometimes true... though certainly not of the best of us. If you have a weakness, by ALL MEANS, don't feed it! Furthermore, live pure and reserve the right to cast stones as necessary.
Weak whites must die! It's a powerful line that bluntly states what nature has in store for the degenerate specimens of our folk. The statement has been masterfully explained, if not coined, by Martin Kerr and circulated widely by Tom Metzger. I think it's dead on.
Let's begin the spring weeding now with someone going under the name Tsun.
To begin...
A good friend here in Iceland spent some time at VNN Forum a couple of months ago where he was solicited by a character named Vibeke Ostergaard using the screen name triskelion or triskelion14. VO claimed to be a folkish nationalist from the Færoe Islands, Danish possessions in the North Atlantic quite similar to the Shetlands, Orkneys and Iceland. In short order it came out that this person is a hoax.
VO had an online history of at least a couple of years and was believed genuine by many, especially English-speakers who would have a harder time knowing better.
I began to look for who is behind his webpage, which is hosted at [url]http://wsd.matriots.com[/url]. I first dredged up his post history and found that he had associated himself with several bonafide web sites. Initially I sought to pin the blame on these immediate ties, but luckily did not make such accusations widely or publically as these sites turned out to be innocent dupes like perhaps many of you readers.
Focusing on matriots I found that there are additionally the sites [url]www.matriots.com[/url] and [url]http://wsi.matriots.com[/url]. I am not familiar with how such wsd and wsi prefixes work but in any case, found in some texts at the wsi site the title "Western Safeguards Initiative." The wsd site where VO exists was more evasive. Was it a sister site to wsi; something like "Western Safeguards Directive?"
I decided to drop it into [url]http://web.archive.org[/url] to see if an older version would provide the answer. I found the page in its 2002 state and when accessing this document and clicking to reveal source codes found the title "World Sex Daily." Back when wsd.matriots.com was proudly going under the banner World Sex Daily it was a twisted mix of racism and pornography put together by Tsun.
Studying the World Sex Daily archives I found Tsun using a contact email at the domain worldsexdaily.com. Dropping this into the Wayback Machine web.archive.org and checking those documents, I was overcome with shock and disgust. Never did I think it would lead back to this! I had only wanted to find out who was responsible for the VO hoax. At [url]www.worldsexdaily.com[/url] one could sign up for the "Asian Love Tour" and visit third-world yellow mud countries for a regular sex slave holiday. If you wanted a nice souvenir, worldsexdaily could arrange an affordable oil portrait of your "Love Tour partner" done by local gook artists who are reportedly quite good and work cheap.
If this was all a sick joke which had REALLY crossed the line, it went further! Making the jump from wsd.matriots.com to [url]www.worldsexdaily.com[/url] I soon came across a switch in the assumed name used by the owner. Tsun became Roman Armon. Roman also had some pages dedicated to the celebration of urine drinking and sex robots of his own design. I am not making this up!
Dropping "Roman Armon" into google I came across his current projects: [url]www.clevelandsex.com[/url] and [url]www.orientalfemdoms.com[/url] where you can arrange to be whipped by professional gook prostitutes.
There must have been some lapse, you hope, between Tsun at wsd.matriots.com and [url]www.orientalfemdoms.com[/url]. I would have hoped so too, but the domain registry [url]www.betterwhois.com[/url] gave this unindictable evidence:
[url]www.clevelandsex.com[/url] and [url]www.orientalfemdoms.com[/url] are owned by Miner Prescott of Cleveland, Ohio... contact email? [email]tsun@acclink.com[/email]
Of course, giving "one of ours" every last benefit of a doubt, I thought, "Sure, tsun is just a word. It could be someone else who 'our' tsun was just playing off of as a sick joke." After all, it hadn't come to my notice that 'our' tsun used the acclink.com email account... but did he? I dropped that address into google groups and found that it is indeed the same email registered to our "American Anglo-Celt." It leads us to other internet names such as Borocar and this whole charade, in the end, will no doubt expose a dozen or more "internet characters" who are Cleveland roofing contractor Miner Prescott.
Mr. Prescott, no matter how good your writing and how many folks you "inspired" you are a weak white... if white at all ???
I'm sick of the whole thing and on this spring Sunday morning I could use some fresh air... so, I'm going to drop the pile of urls below like a heap of stinking filth and rid myself of the whole of it. The course of action is up to YOU!
And further deponent saith not... -White Iceland
[B]WARNING! EXPLICIT CONTENT IN THE FOLLOWING LINKS![/B]
[url]http://web.archive.org/web/20020802152610/http://wsd.matriots.com/[/url]
[url]http://web.archive.org/web/20020802161410/wsd.matriots.com/pg/about.html[/url]
[url]http://web.archive.org/web/20000510160836/http://www.worldsexdaily.com/[/url]
[url]http://web.archive.org/web/20010210222941/www.condomfh.com/members/roman/drink/index.htm[/url]
[url]http://web.archive.org/web/19991128100533/http://clevelandsex.com/[/url]
[url]http://web.archive.org/web/20010715215823/www.condomfh.com/members/roman/[/url]
[url]www.orientalfemdoms.com[/url]
[url]http://www.betterwhois.com/complete.cgi?domain=clevelandsex.com®whois=whois.networksolutions.com&key=666531[/url]
[url]http://www.betterwhois.com/complete.cgi?domain=orientalfemdoms.com®whois=whois.networksolutions.com&key=008358[/url]
[url]http://www.thecitymall.com/usa/oh/cleveland/06_roofing_gutters_&_siding.shtml[/url]
[url]http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=author:tsun%40acclink.com+[/url]
[url]http://members.tripod.com/~Borocar/sci-gov/[/url]
[url]http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=borocar&btnG=Search[/url]
2004-05-09 18:27 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Iceland]Exclusive Exposé for Stormfront
What a long strange trip indeed!........
I'm sick of the whole thing and on this spring Sunday morning I could use some fresh air... so, I'm going to drop the pile of urls below like a heap of stinking filth and rid myself of the whole of it. The course of action is up to YOU!
And further deponent saith not... -White Iceland
[B]WARNING! EXPLICIT CONTENT IN THE FOLLOWING LINKS![/B]
[url]http://web.archive.org/web/20020802152610/http://wsd.matriots.com/[/url] [/QUOTE]
Well I don't know. Someone who knows more about this than I do might want to check it out I suppose to see if all these sights are really controlled/owned by the same person. Just because the domain names have some similarity or other supporting info doesn't prove they're the same person. Just as we really don't know Trisk is Tsun, even if WI hypothesis that Trisk is a hoax perpetuated by some at today's matriots site is true.
Cyber-sleuthing is a complicated activity. I'd say you'd really need a strong case before you can say for sure.
2004-05-09 19:29 | User Profile
[url]http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=4733[/url]
2004-05-09 19:35 | User Profile
WSI is one single entity. It is NOT related to any other website [except for the fact that it is on Matriots. I do not know how many websites Matriots has].
[edited slightly]
2004-05-09 22:43 | User Profile
So let us see.
If your surmise is correct, then you have bravely outed the true identity of a person whose 'crime', according to the 'evidence' brought before this court, was not only to contribute philosophical underpinnings and practical applications of folkish White Nationalism under a pseudonym or two (something none of us here are guilty of - imagine! Pseudonyms, by George!), but additionally to disseminate these via the Internet for the purpose of pointing out alternate approaches - and lending hope - to his fellow whites around the globe.
And for committing these 'heinous' acts, you took it upon yourself to don deerstalker cap and Inverness cloak and spend what musta been countless manhours to smoke out and [I]publicize [/I] what you believe to be his real name and location.
Congratulations, White Iceberg! Today you are a Jew.
2004-05-09 23:12 | User Profile
You all can trust me. Really, how old are you? 14, 18, maybe the wisdom and experience that goes with 21? Sheesh. There aren't many folks out on their own with that kind of time on their hands.
2004-05-09 23:14 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno] Congratulations, White Iceberg! Today you are a Jew.[/QUOTE]
Let's see, WI is guilty of:
Using a stereotypical handle with the name "White" in it: so Hollywood-Naziesque.
Using "Mad Arab" in his writing, so Freeper/zhid-like.
His "Weak whites must die!" Exremist silly slogan promoting infighting.
Sowing dissent and trying to make whites fight.
If it walks and talks like a duck... it's a zhid.
2004-05-10 00:00 | User Profile
Wait a moment, IR and Madrussian, thatôs unfair!
WI has backed up nearly everything he said with evidence so far (even though I donôt quite get why Tsun = Trisk?! Can you elaborate on that, WI?).
What we have as fact so far is two things:
1) Tsun is obviously a very sick puppy, and would be an embarrassment and a liability to any movement, whatsoever. The guy would be an embarassment to the Nation of Islam! If I am wrong, please explain, why?
2) Trisk, on the other hand, has definitely lied about most or all of his accomplishments. So much is fact! The jury is still out if Trisk = Tsun.
3) WI has not lied about anything. That he invested time in exposing a fraud (or two) can not reasonably be held against him.
2004-05-10 05:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]So let us see.
If your surmise is correct,
Big "if". Tell me, do you think what WI is saying about Trisk and/or Tsun is true?
I think its quite relevent what Trisk and/orTsun really is, especially when they make claims based on that identity
then you have bravely outed the true identity of a person whose 'crime', according to the 'evidence' brought before this court, was not only to contribute philosophical underpinnings and practical applications of folkish White Nationalism under a pseudonym or two (something none of us here are guilty of - imagine! Pseudonyms, by George!), but additionally to disseminate these via the Internet for the purpose of pointing out alternate approaches - and lending hope - to his fellow whites around the globe.
Well I hope you aren't trivializing running porn sites as a major means of financial support.
And for committing these 'heinous' acts, you took it upon yourself to don deerstalker cap and Inverness cloak and spend what musta been countless manhours to smoke out and [I]publicize [/I] what you believe to be his real name and location.
Congratulations, White Iceberg! Today you are a Jew.[/QUOTE] He's really irritated you hasn't he? I don't see any real harm in poking holes in peoples pretensions, and that's all he's done. Trisk/V.O. whoever he is IMO still is a person of considerable ability. He and other WN could be of great use if they'd quit their posturing and start living in the real world, like we all have to.
2004-05-10 06:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Big "if". Tell me, do you think what WI is saying about Trisk and/or Tsun is true? [/QUOTE]
I'm surprised you're even asking; apparently, the accusations alone are all the proof that's required for some people.
What WI has 'proven' is that the house VO claims to have built is either a fabrication or Tsun snafu'd uploading the photo. That's it. The rest is complete conjecture.
And I'd like to clear up another fast-spreading misconception. Lord knows I have had my differences with VO but he never advocated Nazi-styled NS but rather a positive folkishness. He placed much more emphasis on redirecting white energies towards building our own self-sufficient, standalone communities and our people regaining a positive forward momentum than on any Day of the Rope - and those of us who have been around long enough to have yawned through his manifestoes [I]know this perfectly well[/I]. He was no Hitlerite (or Linderite). His ideas may be purest pollyanna but they merited respectful consideration.
But what he did not understand was that at Original Dissent, there are a number of holies one may not dissent against. One of which is - no, not God - Pat Freakin' Buchanan! God help the poor soul who opines out loud that Pat Buchanan, while a good and forceful writer, falls a little short of the Second Coming because you will forevermore join the ranks of the Jack Booted Sieg Heilers.
In case you were wondering: THIS MEANS [B]YOU[/B], OKIE.
You know perfectly well you're doing nothing but feeding table scraps to a troll to keep him coming around, but he's taking a dump on a Pat-denier, which amuses you - so you encourage him anyway.
It apparently has never occurred to you that VO, whoever the hell he is, has never advocated violence, Nazism or defeatism, and thus whatever your differences with him [I]does not deserve to have his real identity and location revealed on this forum[/I] - although I have strong doubts as to ANY of White Iceberg's claims.
I mean, is this what we [I]do [/I] now? We encourage [I]handing [/I] ZOG the vitals on our fellows, and then claim clean hands because the guy we egged on actually [I]did [/I] the deed? Are we Bill White, only with bigger and shinier crucifixes, around here now?
2004-05-10 06:45 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]But what he did not understand was that at Original Dissent, there are a number of holies one may not dissent against. One of which is - no, not God - Pat Freakin' Buchanan! God help the poor soul who opines out loud that Pat Buchanan, while a good and forceful writer, falls a little short of the Second Coming because you will forevermore join the ranks of the Jack Booted Sieg Heilers.
In case you were wondering: THIS MEANS [B]YOU[/B], OKIE.
For mislabelings a tiny fraction of that Bjarni/Trisk would call me a miserable liar.
It apparently has never occurred to you that VO, whoever the hell he is, has never advocated violence, Nazism or defeatism, and thus whatever your differences with him [I]does not deserve to have his real identity and location revealed on this forum[/I] - although I have strong doubts as to ANY of White Iceberg's claims.
Well someone who makes as many real world claims asTrisk does has sort of waived his anonymity. Sounds like you also think V.O. is not his real name.
Obviously W.I.'s claim made their point.
2004-05-10 06:53 | User Profile
White Iceland is clearly a sex-obessed lunatic.
I in particular love his point about 'Jewish Freudians' accusing the focus of being overly fond of boots and nubile girls. Yes, that certainly is a common 'anti-racist' attack, isn't it?
Why, I do believe the SPLC just ran that particularly attack the other day -- I think maybe next week they will call for a ban on boots (too Nazi) and sex with women under 30 (too many are in the US are white and fertile). The New York Times, the Guardian, they all have similar girl-and-boot 'anti-racist' and 'anti-fascist' critiques.
Clearly, we must dissociate ourselves from our girl and boot liking brethren, and be especially careful that not to visit websites on servers that also host (gasp!) [I]pornopraphy.[/I]
As to duplicate screen handles -- yes, it is all part of a conspiracy to hook white racialists on the joys of 11 year old Thai girls. You see -- the thinking goes -- if we would just love those wee Thai girls, we would appreciate how utterly pointless our obsessions with somewhat older white females are -- particularly those points about wanting there to be some white females around in the future, all that kind of jazz.
2004-05-10 16:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]I'm surprised you're even asking; apparently, the accusations alone are all the proof that's required for some people.
What WI has 'proven' is that the house VO claims to have built is either a fabrication or Tsun snafu'd uploading the photo. That's it. The rest is complete conjecture.
And I'd like to clear up another fast-spreading misconception. Lord knows I have had my differences with VO but he never advocated Nazi-styled NS but rather a positive folkishness. He placed much more emphasis on redirecting white energies towards building our own self-sufficient, standalone communities and our people regaining a positive forward momentum than on any Day of the Rope - and those of us who have been around long enough to have yawned through his manifestoes [I]know this perfectly well[/I]. He was no Hitlerite (or Linderite). His ideas may be purest pollyanna but they merited respectful consideration.
But what he did not understand was that at Original Dissent, there are a number of holies one may not dissent against. One of which is - no, not God - Pat Freakin' Buchanan! God help the poor soul who opines out loud that Pat Buchanan, while a good and forceful writer, falls a little short of the Second Coming because you will forevermore join the ranks of the Jack Booted Sieg Heilers.
In case you were wondering: THIS MEANS [B]YOU[/B], OKIE.
You know perfectly well you're doing nothing but feeding table scraps to a troll to keep him coming around, but he's taking a dump on a Pat-denier, which amuses you - so you encourage him anyway.
It apparently has never occurred to you that VO, whoever the hell he is, has never advocated violence, Nazism or defeatism, and thus whatever your differences with him [I]does not deserve to have his real identity and location revealed on this forum[/I] - although I have strong doubts as to ANY of White Iceberg's claims.
I mean, is this what we [I]do [/I] now? We encourage [I]handing [/I] ZOG the vitals on our fellows, and then claim clean hands because the guy we egged on actually [I]did [/I] the deed? Are we Bill White, only with bigger and shinier crucifixes, around here now?[/QUOTE]
You either have the insight into human subtleties of a bull in a china shop or just won't let truth get in the way of some good rhetoric. You're just flat-out wrong, IR and if you find it so very miserable around here why don't you just go somewhere else? Nobody is twisting your arm and forcing you to put in your day's worth here. Listen, I and alot of folks enjoy having you participate here, but man, you obviously have some kind of monkey on your back. Why don't you either get it off your back or just move on?
I would prefer and hope that you decide to stay-on and participate. Please be sure about that.
2004-05-10 16:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=darkstar]White Iceland is clearly a sex-obessed lunatic. [/QUOTE]
Maybe, I don't know. He has given me his information to contact him on several occasions to prove he does exist, though. Can anyone do the same for VO? Anything? A link to or copy of his book? Nationalist school? Position on the city council? Local business? Hospital record related to his attack in Italy? Anything???
I didn't think so. The case is closed as far as I'm concerned and as I said, in hindsight I think it's pretty humorous actually.
2004-05-10 17:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Why don't you either get it off your back or just move on? [/QUOTE] Sounds like an ultimatum.
2004-05-10 17:37 | User Profile
I haven't seen anything to suggest that Triskelion/VO is the same person as Tsun. Their writing styles are very different as is the message. From what I've read of "Mr.Tsun" here and elsewhere, he has consistently spewed out hatred against White Nationalist figures and pro-white organizations but I've seen none of that from VO. I suspect that White Iceland, in the course of his investigations, happened to uncover two people both of whom were/are posing as something they are not and because of their association through the matriots.com web site he mistakenly assumed they were the same individual.
In defense of VO, I've never seen anything in his writings that indicate any kind of malicious intentions. I think his essays are as genuine as is his obviously deep knowledge of nationalist theories and history.
Perhaps the VO fables were simply an attempt to be taken more seriously or maybe they're just wishful thinking that found it's way into print. In any case, it's altogether unfortunate and unnecessary because VO clearly has much to offer and his unique views and his message would have been well-regarded by most even without the author embellishing his own accomplishments.
2004-05-10 17:48 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Sounds like an ultimatum.[/QUOTE]
Why, MR? Is it too much to ask active members here to accept the board guidelines and/or fellow member's opinions with some modicum of respect and basic goodwill?
As far as it being an ultimatum, I remember when you yourself used to give me the benefit of the doubt. What changed? Have I banned anyone? I'm not your enemy, but why I sense this hostility from you and others is a mystery to me. I don't have to be running this thing, you know.
I'm not whining, mind you, because it comes with the territory providing this outlet for opinions. But how many times have I heard from many people that they can't stomach the free-for-all at other unmoderated boards, but when I establish some baseline moral standards for this place that I believe are necessary to keep things running on a higher level, then there are those who seem to want to constantly harp on it. It all stems from my decision to not allow incessant derision of Christianity and evidently some are real hung up on that. As I said before, it's not like this is the only game in town. VNN has a board that is fairly explicitly anti-Christian. There's the Phora, skadi, White Revolution and even Stormfront -- all boards that are basically non or anti-Christian in their tone and basic philosophy. Don Black prominently links to us here at OD, so obviously he doesn't have a problem with the Christian stance of this board, so why do you or others?
2004-05-10 18:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Why, MR? [/QUOTE] Since when voicing a point of view in colorful terms is a violation of guidelines? The hair-trigger approach to interpreting "guidelines" isn't something you've always done.
2004-05-10 18:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Since when voicing a point of view in colorful terms is a violation of guidelines? The hair-trigger approach to interpreting "guidelines" isn't something you've always done.[/QUOTE]
I think it is hardly 'hair-trigger', MR. When someone puts up information that distorts or completely gets the facts wrong, then I will correct it. It's a distortion to say that Okie or myself forbid or get out of shape at any criticism of Pat Buchanan and to imply that that was the root cause of our fallout with the entitly known as 'triskelion' is just wrong. For example, Centinel and many others have criticized Buchanan quite strongly here and Okie or myself don't have personal disputes with them. Ask yourself why that is and the answer may help you see that there was more at work than simple disagreement over Buchanan.
2004-05-10 18:24 | User Profile
What do guidelines have to do anything with what il ragno believes has really happened? Since when has a disagreement become interpreted as a violation of guidelines?
2004-05-10 18:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]What do guidelines have to do anything with what il ragno believes has really happened? Since when has a disagreement become interpreted as a violation of guidelines?[/QUOTE]
But what he did not understand was that at Original Dissent, there are a number of holies one may not dissent against. One of which is - no, not God - Pat Freakin' Buchanan! God help the poor soul who opines out loud that Pat Buchanan, while a good and forceful writer, falls a little short of the Second Coming because you will forevermore join the ranks of the Jack Booted Sieg Heilers.
In case you were wondering: THIS MEANS YOU, OKIE.
...bigger and shinier crucifixes...
C'mon, MR. Don't play dumb.
2004-05-10 18:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]It seems that WI has succeeded in his troll mission of sowing discord on this forum.[/QUOTE]
For the record, I couldn't give a rat's rear end about the real identity of triskelion. My relationship with you, Okie, madrussian, Il Ragno and others concern me infinitely more.
2004-05-10 18:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno] It apparently has never occurred to you that VO, whoever the hell he is, has never advocated violence, Nazism or defeatism, and thus whatever your differences with him [I]does not deserve to have his real identity and location revealed on this forum[/I] - although I have strong doubts as to ANY of White Iceberg's claims. [/QUOTE]
Your doubts are perfectly ok -they may even turn out right, though in the moment it looks like WI is leading 5:0 or so. But, if we assume for a moment what is most likely, namely that WI has it right, then I ask you:
[B]Why on Earth should a Scandinavian not object to an American porn merchant posing as a Scandinavian Patriot? [/B]
And since when are con artists ok??
2004-05-10 18:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]Apparently the accusations of an obsessive-compulsive troll are the only "evidence" that's needed.
Coming soon from White Iceland: "proof" that Wayland doesn't really exist.[/QUOTE]
When you present yourself as not just a Scandanavian Nationalist but as [I]thee[/I] Scandanavian Nationalist, without peer really, do you have a right to be angry when others start asking questions about you, or start making inquiries about how to buy books you claim to have written, and so on? And if somebody like White Iceland discovers that it was all an elaborate fabrication shouldn't he tell others about it?
There's no point in shooting the messenger, this is all VO's own doing.
2004-05-10 20:15 | User Profile
[QUOTE]You're just flat-out wrong, IR and if you find it so very miserable around here why don't you just go somewhere else? Nobody is twisting your arm and forcing you to put in your day's worth here. Listen, I and alot of folks enjoy having you participate here, but man, you obviously have some kind of monkey on your back. Why don't you either get it off your back or just move on?...I would prefer and hope that you decide to stay-on and participate. [/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm feelin' you, dawg.
This isn't the first 'battle' I've had with Okie (more like the [I]fifty[/I]-first) so I wonder what could've possibly prompted [I]that [/I] response. (And I wouldn't dream of leaving before Oliver Cromwell returned from hiatus.)
Returning to the topic at hand I'll add that if VO had any legitimacy issues with me it was due to his [U]flawless[/U] command of English, including colloquial English - while Europeans are better versed in languages than the majority of Americans are, if you read enough commentary by Nordic Europeans writing in English even the most fluent will stumble over things like slang phrases and subject-predicate continuity. Well, Trisk never did so (understandable if he's only from Cleveland after all)....but neither, it turns out, does White Iceberg. (And - sorry, but 'than'/'then' doesn't qualify - there are probably fifty million Americans who commit that error every single day. Not like that's anything to boast about, of course.)
You see my dilemna here? It turns out there [I]is [/I] one aspect of The Vibeke Ostergard Experience that did set off mild alarms - but White Iceberg is every bit as 'guilty' of it!
Perhaps they are ALL one person (Tsun= Roman Armen= Vibeke Ostergard= Hedig Ostergard [gotta assume the 'son' is a ringer, too]= White Iceland!) locked in a Norman-and-Mother steel cage deathmatch. Three rounds, two falls, five personalities.
Oh - one other thing.
[QUOTE]"It has been guessed at that VO or BT were setting believers up for a money scam in the "forthcoming book in English" post. BT clearly states, "Payment will be by International Money Orders as I object to credit cards on principle and I will send you the address you should send payment to when the books are ready for delivery."
Price was given as 35USD with air shipment to the states running an additional 12USD.
"A total of 750 copies will be printed and so far 637 have been spoken for." These are likely random numbers, but if true... do the math. 637 x $47US = $29,939US. So, thirty grand for a couple years of online hoaxing. That should more than pay his electric and internet bills. Profitable hobby, huh? I can understand why he wouldn't offer customers the security of selling the book on Jewbay... why give them a cut?[/QUOTE]
You mean The Oster-Borg ripped off [I]nearly a thousand WNs [/I] and yet not one has ever bothered to go online to either squawk about it, or warn others? You know, "I sent him a money order two years ago and I'm [I]still [/I] waiting for my book to arrive?"
My point, in short, remains unchanged. Trisk sort of put people to sleep in the first place and he hasn't shown up here in over six months, if not longer. His 'message' was neither seditious nor defeatist. The internet is full of would-be tough guys, would-be genius-level IQs, would-be Leaders of Men and they all use pseudonyms....so why the tymp fanfare over outing someone most people haven't even thought about in months and who was never a divisive presence (unlike everybody else trying to fill the William Pierce grand-poobah void?)
You'll pardon me if I choose to believe there is a hidden, and wholly personal, motivation for White Iceberg to suddenly appear, fully-grown and sprung from the head of Athena, with vital 'news' to impart to us all. Perhaps he got double-charged on his Visa arranging for an evening's entertainment with one of those "gook prostitutes".
2004-05-10 21:09 | User Profile
As White Iceberg is simulposting his 'dispatches' verbatim on every single WN board it is interesting to note Ygg's response [from VNN Forum]:
[QUOTE]YGGDRASIL In my second post on this board I dished out some advice which for all intents and purposes obviously needs to be repeated here, albeit somewhat modified.
[QUOTE]I have one major advice for all those who overzealously attempt to unravel another's identity... It would be best if everyone stopped stereotyping other, likeminded individuals, or accuse them of being a neocon, jew, shill, shabbasgoy, pornopeddler or what have you as soon as a character from that person's writing pokes you in the skin sideways. This is the rot that constantly undermines, mutilates and dismembers the White Nationalists community before it can grow sufficiently strong to withstand such pathetic squabblings amongst self.[/QUOTE]
[I]Stop doing the adversary's work for him and you'll find that he is far less formidable an enemy than you think he is and at the same time discover that you yourselves have done far greater damage to the cause than you had even thought possible. [/I]
I have known Tsun for a long time online, never met him personally. Yet I know enough about him to know that what he writes is good. The same applies to the writings of Vibeke ÃËstergaard.
You have done a lot of work Iceland, but you are wasting significant and valuable time digging up mud where you shouldn't. What purpose does it serve?
[I]With Tsun you have now in a relatively short space of time "exposed" two fine, articulate persons as if they are trash, hoaxes or what have you and to add insult to injury you have harvested some dimwitted followers to boot. Once again the white community is being rendered split right down the core, which makes me wonder from whose side you really are operating, Mister. Why don't you try to expose me? [/I]
Or should I ask the good people here to be a little more weary of your meandering bleatings and a little more alert to your own vague personality? What do we really know about you? Is there anyone as dilligent as you who can show us what you are?
In Real Life I would probably not dream of associating with you. But this is cyberspace where things are very different. In that regard I request that you respect other people's privacy a little more but if you do feel the need to do some research try to keep it to yourself until you are 100% certain that a person is indeed "bad", will you?
Ygg[/QUOTE]
2004-05-10 21:35 | User Profile
Amazing. It's like we've collectively fallen into some kind of ethical black hole or something. Ygg's comments would be valid if V.O. was an internet 'handle' who had maintained anonymity. In that case I would have deleted any attempt to 'out' him or any private information revealed here and banned the member who put it up within a moment's notice. But that is just not the case in this particular instance and that makes all the difference in the world. Granted I only know what has been put up here and not anywhere else.
'Triskelion' or 'Vibeke Ostergaard' used his 'real-life' name, background, experiences and accomplishments as credentials to back-up and support everything he wrote, critiqued and advocated throughout his entire tenure on this board. Therefore it was 'Vibeke' that put his 'real-life' information out here in the public domain and that makes it fair game for fact-finding and discussion. Further, if 'Vibeke' introduced his personal info and it was subsequently found out to be a lie, then 'Vibeke' deserves to be exposed as a fraud, liar and shunned. Surely we have some kind of standards to maintain on this side of the aisle?
But again, the key factor is that it was 'Vibeke' who first put his personal info out in the public domain, whether true or false of course.
I think Ygg completely misses the mark in this case.
2004-05-10 22:51 | User Profile
[IMG]http://members.aol.com/lshauser/calvns1.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://members.aol.com/lshauser/calvns2.jpg[/IMG]
2004-05-10 23:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]But what he did not understand was that at Original Dissent, there are a number of holies one may not dissent against. One of which is - no, not God - Pat Freakin' Buchanan! God help the poor soul who opines out loud that Pat Buchanan, while a good and forceful writer, falls a little short of the Second Coming because you will forevermore join the ranks of the Jack Booted Sieg Heilers.
In case you were wondering: THIS MEANS [B]YOU[/B], OKIE.
You know perfectly well you're doing nothing but feeding table scraps to a troll to keep him coming around, but he's taking a dump on a Pat-denier, which amuses you - so you encourage him anyway. [/QUOTE]Yes, you, I and Triskelion disagree on Buchanan. But I realy don't see the need for the constant monotonous polemics, unsupported by any claims except stuff we go over again and again, but which apparently never make an impression on you. If we're going to invoke polemics, I might point out that your opinion that Triskelion doesn't fall short of the second coming is buttressed by growing sentiment, this from no Okie or Buchanan fans, that there wasn't even a first coming of Triskelion.
Maybe you should save your polemical support for some real people, if you want to avoid looking like an idiot. That sad, I personally don't mind you staying around here looking like an idiot, if that's what you choose to do.
2004-05-10 23:56 | User Profile
[url]http://forums.originaldissent.com/showpost.php?p=80906&postcount=79[/url]
2004-05-11 00:26 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Wayland]I haven't seen anything to suggest that Triskelion/VO is the same person as Tsun. Their writing styles are very different as is the message. From what I've read of "Mr.Tsun" here and elsewhere, he has consistently spewed out hatred against White Nationalist figures and pro-white organizations but I've seen none of that from VO. I suspect that White Iceland, in the course of his investigations, happened to uncover two people both of whom were/are posing as something they are not and because of their association through the matriots.com web site he mistakenly assumed they were the same individual.[/QUOTE]
Maybe, maybe not. Could be some kind of genius, WN Sybil.
Just speculating, of course.
2004-05-11 00:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Yes, you, I and Triskelion disagree on Buchanan. But I realy don't see the need for the constant monotonous polemics, unsupported by any claims except stuff we go over again and again, but which apparently never make an impression on you. If we're going to invoke polemics, I might point out that your opinion that Triskelion doesn't fall short of the second coming is buttressed by growing sentiment, this from no Okie or Buchanan fans, that there wasn't even a first coming of Triskelion.
Maybe you should save your polemical support for some real people, if you want to avoid looking like an idiot. That sad, I personally don't mind you staying around here looking like an idiot, if that's what you choose to do.[/QUOTE]
Wait, lemme guess: today's word is [I]polemics[/I].
My point - boiled down to one sentence - was Triskelion is/was windy and boring, neither of which even remotely justify publicizing his true identity and location.
The Tex position - and I refer to Tex because I fail to see that you even [I]have [/I] a position here beyond chuckling in what I assume is 'triumph' - is that VO, by building his hypotheses on a foundation of announcing "I am noted Icelandic office-holder and patriot Vibeke Ostergard, author of books and builder of Faroese funny-cars - now [B]silence[/B], while I point the only way to victory!" was [I]asking [/I] to be eventually outed as a fictional construct. That's fairly accurate, except that the "personal info" came after someone here (it may even have been me; I can't rule myself out) interrupted one of his lectures to ask, "Yeah, well, before I sign on to chug the Kool-Aid, tell me how well these methods have worked for YOU over there in Upper Fjordsberg" and THAT is how the Augmented Legend Of VO was born.
And, personally speaking, the moment that I conceded that VO was indeed a figment of the imagination was his recent response to White Iceberg when he said, "Vibeke is used as both a male and female name here, the way Kerry or Dana or Tracy is in the US". That was a little too much familiarity with American ephemera for a guy whose supposed daily life is normally busy with re-routing traffic lanes for the Festival of the Wooden Clogs, and ordering bulk drywall for his whites-only pet construction projects.
BUT!
The guy never:
-shook people down for money -PM'd anyone (that I know of) seeking personal info on anyone else -flamed others (though I suppose if you buy Bjarni Tyndal as Personality #6 this is debatable) and most importantly -advocated anything that white people would not [I]greatly [/I] benefit from following up on
....so, again - why the unparalleled joy at each new 'revelation'? Why the feeding frenzy?
2004-05-11 00:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Why the feeding frenzy?[/QUOTE]
I don't see the need for any kind of feeding frenzy. I think it is enough to know that by all acounts, VO is not real. There is more involved, but I don't see the need to go any more into it, except to say it looks to be likely that there are other prominent folks who aren't 'real' either. But bottom line, no crime has been committed so the moral of the story is just that everyone should always be very, very wary of who they are talking to on any kind of personal level in case the next imposter is someone with more sinister motivations.
2004-05-11 01:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]I don't see the need for any kind of feeding frenzy. I think it is enough to know that by all acounts, VO is not real. There is more involved, but I don't see the need to go any more into it, except to say it looks to be likely that there are other prominent folks who aren't 'real' either. But bottom line, no crime has been committed so the moral of the story is just that everyone should always be very, very wary of who they are talking to on any kind of personal level in case the next imposter is someone with more sinister motivations.[/QUOTE]
Tex, Out of curiosity, why don't you want to expose the other "prominent folks" who aren't real?
2004-05-11 02:33 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Valley Forge]Tex, Out of curiosity, why don't you want to expose the other "prominent folks" who aren't real?[/QUOTE]
It's not that they aren't 'real', it's just that it appears on the surface that trisk is/was a couple of other 'people', too. As for exposing them, generally I don't care if someone has multiple identities as long as they aren't disrupting the board with them. Triskelion was kind of a special case in that his entire argument rested on his self-proclaimed personal identity and supposed real-world accomplishments. The other faces of our own Sybil don't meet the same criteria, IMO, so as of now I don't see any need in causing any further grief.
2004-05-11 02:45 | User Profile
White Iceland is Tsun.
:thumbsup:
2004-05-11 03:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Campion Moore Boru]White Iceland is Tsun.[/QUOTE]
That seems very plausible to me. Perhaps he had a falling out with the person behind the 'five faces of trisk' and is now 'outing' him/her.
But man, if you peruse those threads over at VNN's board it appears that Tsun is quite an unsavory character himself. I had to take a shower after reading some of that. Which is not unusual of VNN, but this was even worse than normal.
:shocking: :yucky:
2004-05-11 04:36 | User Profile
Yeah, sure, you say that [I]now[/I]; but when you're dying of thirst crawling across the Sahara with two broken legs and an empty canteen, suddenly it's a whole different story, hah?
2004-05-11 04:40 | User Profile
First, I will say I find it hard to disagre with White Iceland's conclusion about Tsun, but I have not idea if every thing he has charged is true. As I recall Elisha Strom has attack 'Tsun' too.
"I haven't seen anything to suggest that 'Triskelion/VO' is the same person as 'Tsun'." I also find it unlikely that 'Triskelion' or 'Vibeke Ostergaard' are the same person. I greatly enjoyed 'Triskelion' posts and witings, but 'Tsun' seem like a not too bright pervert.
I liked 'Triskelion' I wish he would come and defend himself if he is real. "In defense of VO, I've never seen anything in his writings that indicate any kind of malicious intentions. I think his essays are as genuine as is his obviously deep knowledge of nationalist theories and history." And would like it if this could all be done without infighting.
2004-05-11 04:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Wait, lemme guess: today's word is [I]polemics[/I].......... No. Polemics was yesterdays word. Today's word is comedian
And, personally speaking, the moment that I conceded that VO was indeed a figment of the imagination was his recent response to White Iceberg when he said, "Vibeke is used as both a male and female name here, the way Kerry or Dana or Tracy is in the US". That was a little too much familiarity with American ephemera for a guy whose supposed daily life is normally busy with re-routing traffic lanes for the Festival of the Wooden Clogs, and ordering bulk drywall for his whites-only pet construction projects.
Oh no. It makes perfect sense. After all, he spent several years in the states, probably getting one of his Ph.D's, or earning his money for his vast enterprises. Maybe siring his two kids, (who wasn't burneddown with his house on the mainland). After all, a man at the ripe old age of 35 with nothing more than these minor distractions in his life must get bored with Faorese life.
BUT!
The guy never:
-shook people down for money -PM'd anyone (that I know of) seeking personal info on anyone else -flamed others (though I suppose if you buy Bjarni Tyndal as Personality #6 this is debatable)
Devils in the details my friend. We have discussed some issues regarding his book regarding money. But regarding your other points, the same could be said of our notorius Indian friend, whom time has mercifully erased from my memory
and most importantly -advocated anything that white people would not [I]greatly [/I] benefit from following up on
This is the most important point. What was he advocating exactly? This is what I was honing in on, at the time he ran off.
....so, again - why the unparalleled joy at each new 'revelation'? Why the feeding frenzy?[/QUOTE]Simply this. I'm getting tired of a movement who's union is constantly marred by people with hidden agenda's hiding behind masks, internet or otherwise.
And I think others too. That sad, I feel no great elation at these revelations of Trisk. He obviously was a unusually bright and dedicated person who seemed to want to address a lot of the failings of the WN movement, in his own way. I am puzzled by his ways, as with much of WN's. As well as hurt he could not be more honest and forthright.
I am reminded of Jesus's words, "nothing that is done in darkness will not see the light. Deeds that are whispered in secret will be shouted from the house tops".
That is not a personal threat of course. I'm not a White Iceland. But there are others out there, who sense they're being taken, albeit not exactly sure how, and will do something about it. I won't attack them or stand in their way.
2004-05-11 05:09 | User Profile
The trumph of Okie, hilarious. Allakhu Akbar!
One of the funniest things I've read today was the idea of piss-flavored Listerine.
2004-05-11 05:09 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]It's not that they aren't 'real', it's just that it appears on the surface that trisk is/was a couple of other 'people', too. As for exposing them, generally I don't care if someone has multiple identities as long as they aren't disrupting the board with them. Triskelion was kind of a special case in that his entire argument rested on his self-proclaimed personal identity and supposed real-world accomplishments. The other faces of our own Sybil don't meet the same criteria, IMO, so as of now I don't see any need in causing any further grief.[/QUOTE]Let me add that we are trotting a fine line here. We certainly don't want to remotely approach the level of a Jim Robinson, who personally looked up the IP address of a disruptor, outed him, and got him fired.
As a contibutor to the WN movement "Triskelion" has shown major failings because of his methods, which I think need to be exposed. But as a WN (which I still have great confidence in, although with everything going on it seems sometimes you wonder what to think sometimes) who has a cause he believes in and obviously works very hard at, I wish him no personal harm, whoever he is, with his possible other identities. I appreciate the admin and mod's continuing solicitude over our internet anonymity.I think it might be time when in the intersts of movement solidarity a little coming clean and voluntary waiving of this anonymity might do some good, in view of what's transpired, but I would never and I'm glad Tex also would never personally force this on someone.
We have not said who Trisk and other are. But I think we have the right to say who they are not. Perhaps we'll get to this eventually.
2004-05-11 05:44 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]That seems very plausible to me. Perhaps he had a falling out with the person behind the 'five faces of trisk' and is now 'outing' him/her.
But man, if you peruse those threads over at VNN's board it appears that Tsun is quite an unsavory character himself. I had to take a shower after reading some of that. Which is not unusual of VNN, but this was even worse than normal.
:shocking: :yucky:[/QUOTE]
The fact that he deigned to answer one of WI's posts and then affirmed that he indeed designed porno fetish sites and thought urine was better than lone star was quite enough.
I used to read FAEM and chuckle when the old codger used to call all the "names" con artists and freaks. It is truly difficult to understand the human mind. Years devoted to a scam?
2004-05-11 06:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Valley Forge]Tex, Out of curiosity, why don't you want to expose the other "prominent folks" who aren't real?[/QUOTE]I won't add the full story to what Tex has hinted at, but I will say at the minimum that this does include Tex's conjecture about "Trisk"/"Bjarni"/"OlafLyncker" . This is verifiable.
[url]http://forums.originaldissent.com/showpost.php?p=80273&postcount=44[/url]
2004-05-11 06:13 | User Profile
I found it very difficult to read White Icelander's little expose`, as I really just don't care about the personal lives of extremely minor figures in the movement (Heck, I don't use a handle anymore and I'm probably a bigger movement figure than he is and yet NO ONE knows who I am - LOL). Unless he's about to achieve some particular degree of prominence, and through his degenerate behavior patterns, is likely to bring discredit upon the rest of us, his private life ought to remain his own.
Seriously, even if the guy enjoys getting sodomized by gook men (let alone whipped by gook women), that's between him and his God (as it were, being an Atheist and all). If he's personally immoral, then he will pay whatever price there is to pay for such a thing (although, for example, I'm sure we've all lied at one time or another - I know I have - and I don't recall anywhere in the Bible it saying that lying was a misdemeanor sin while sodomy was a felony sin, so we're all major sinners, so to speak, and thus don't need to pester this Triskelion/V.O. character over his alleged weaknesses).
Sexual perversion is an innate part of human existence, including the sons & daughters of Europa. We need to eschew placing sexual perverts in positions of prominence & leadership, of course, and we don't want to let them hold any of their damned "pride" parades, or whatever public misbehavior would be applicable to Triskelion's/V.O.'s alleged proclivities, but we don't have to go tracking them all down to the ends of the Earth, either. "Don't ask, don't tell," was a stupid policy for the military, and it would be a stupid policy for prominent leaders in the movement, but maybe its a pretty good policy for your average poster (which is all Triskelion/V.O. ever struck me as being, despite his somewhat grandiose claims to the contrary, which I never took very seriously, but was too polite to say so).
2004-05-11 06:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE]We have not said who Trisk and other are. But I think we have the right to say who they are not. [/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but I cannot let this canteloupe-head get the last word here. Accuracy always goes out the window whenever Okie preens.
First off - who you calling 'we', Kemosabe? White Iceberg did all the legwork (for what still strikes me as a private agenda that I in no way am applauding), and Tex verified some ip info. [I]Your [/I] contribution to this amounted to fanning yourself like Burl Ives on his veranda and occasionally saying "yep".
Secondly - understand this: what Iceberg did was to [skillfully, I'll admit] present a ton of circumstantial evidence here; this was [I]not [/I] a slam-dunk, nor was there a definitive smoking gun. Yes, the sheer tonnage of the CE tends to weigh strongly against The Artist Formerly Known As Triskelion but this would play a lot differently in a court of law than in a court of public opinion. Remember that - in order to introduce his argument - first he had to hit the archives to unearth an actual Trisk post (almost a year old) in order to make his accusations in a 'reply'. It raises the question of what purpose does all this serve? It's not as if anyone was logging in, tongue hanging, to get that next Trisk manifesto hot off the presses. Trisk had been a non-factor of late in [I]all [/I] WN circles.
[QUOTE]Devils in the details my friend. We have discussed some issues regarding his book regarding money. [/QUOTE]
See, things like this are why I can't let Okie have the last word. We not only 'discussed' this, we'd 'dismissed' it. Not once has a single individual 'ripped off' by Trisk/Tsun ever surfaced to complain of being stiffed - not even to wonder why the mail was taking so long - and certainly never to warn others against sending him any cash. Never happened.
(Which returns me to White Iceberg's tactics. In assembling that Everest of hearsay and circuimstantial 'proof', he mixed in demonstrably false and baseless claims with seemingly-legitimate areas of inquiry. No one here should be so muddleheaded as to make the leap from [I]Triskelion is likely a fictional character[/I] to [I]and he did everything the Faroese troll [B]said [/B] he did[/I]. There are no grounds to support that. And before anyone takes exception at my use of 'troll', do the math. "White Iceland"'s entire posting history begins and ends with this Ostergard business. Something tells me that, his work now done and his revenge taken on either VO or Tsun I, he will hie away to the horizon with a thundering cloud of dust and a hearty, "Hiyo, Silverman - awaaay!"
Was there ever a "Triskelion"? Who the hell knows? But I'll accept [U]no[/U] as a valid answer at this point. Was "Triskelion" a net-negative to his fellow whites and/or the WN 'community'? At this moment, it may seem that way to the easily-excitable; yet I find no credible evidence to support [I]that [/I] particular charge.
2004-05-11 07:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]I'm sorry but I cannot let this canteloupe-head get the last word here. Accuracy always goes out the window whenever Okie preens.
First off - who you calling 'we', Kemosabe? White Iceberg did all the legwork (for what still strikes me as a private agenda that I in no way am applauding), and Tex verified some ip info. [I]Your [/I] contribution to this amounted to fanning yourself like Burl Ives on his veranda and occasionally saying "yep".
I don't see the need for the personal insults toward Okie. Reviewing the thread I think it is unwarranted as Okie began bending over backwards to give trisk the benefit of the doubt. Nevertheless:
(Which returns me to White Iceberg's tactics. In assembling that Everest of hearsay and circuimstantial 'proof', he mixed in demonstrably false and baseless claims with seemingly-legitimate areas of inquiry. No one here should be so muddleheaded as to make the leap from [I]Triskelion is likely a fictional character[/I] to [I]and he did everything the Faroese troll [B]said [/B] he did[/I]. There are no grounds to support that. And before anyone takes exception at my use of 'troll', do the math. "White Iceland"'s entire posting history begins and ends with this Ostergard business.[/QUOTE]
Well, I can't speak for others, but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday. Perhaps the statements and actions of Stormfront's Scandinavian forum moderator, Kveldulf, from 5 days ago might carry some weight. They did with me.
[url]http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1032140&postcount=4[/url] [url]http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1034385&postcount=6[/url]
Complete thread: [url]http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=130975[/url]
2004-05-11 08:39 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]I don't see the need for the personal insults toward Okie. Reviewing the thread I think it is unwarranted as Okie began bending over backwards to give trisk the benefit of the doubt. Nevertheless:
Il Ragno always feels the need for personal people, particularly me. Of course, I can understand it, considering he has completely sold his mind to those WN who love mocking paleo's, even when they and by implication their arguments are proven to be frauds. Reviewing his and even other's embarassingly fawning statements towards Trisk demonstrates that. See his statement on Trisk's farewell thread
[url]http://forums.originaldissent.com/showpost.php?p=65780&postcount=4[/url]
Of course he's not alone on this forum in that regards.
Well, I can't speak for others, but I didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday. Perhaps the statements and actions of Stormfront's Scandinavian forum moderator, Kveldulf, from 5 days ago might carry some weight. They did with me.
[url]http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1032140&postcount=4[/url] [url]http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showpost.php?p=1034385&postcount=6[/url]
Complete thread: [url]http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=130975[/url][/QUOTE]
Pretty impressive work. Now we have Stormfront's official Dansk forum moderator, who should know if anyone does, saying that White Iceland is someone he can personally vouch for and "Triskelion" is a fraud.
I think we can rest assured now that if "Triskelion" does not overcome any of that so-called reticence he experiences and come forth now with some definitive proof of his existance, we can rest assurred he is a fraud and will either disappear entirely or go back to some safe internet hole where he can hide in and manipulate a few chosen far from the spotlight.
Its truly amazing what he pulled off. We have the record here of all the people he fooled and their statements, for posterity. Although he certainly fooled all of us to some extent, including yours truly, when he first came over from Polinco with the story of his Italian attack. The Italian attack marked the first instance in retrospect of "Triskelion" trying to attain prominence by appealing to his "real life" alter ego V.O.
It's a complicated story of deception. If someone has time, it would be worth it I think to go back through the entire Triskelion saga and study how he manipulated internet forums like this. In the mean time, I think we owe White Iceland words of thanks for exposing this fraud, and certain people owe him a few words of apology, although you might want to wait until the dust settles to be exactly sure.
2004-05-11 09:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE]I don't see the need for the personal insults toward Okie. [/QUOTE]
Really? Cuz I could've sworn he'd called me an "idiot" a few posts back yet I fail to recall you chastising him for it. Not that I cared - this is what Okie and I [I]do [/I] after all - but in terms of inherent malice I kinda think "idiot" trumps the rather benign "cantaloupe-head".
[QUOTE]I didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday. Perhaps the statements and actions of Stormfront's Scandinavian forum moderator, Kveldulf, from 5 days ago might carry some weight. They did with me.[/QUOTE]
But if one accepts that there [I]is [/I] no VO then all the background details (achievements in Faroese politics, etc) will [I]of course [/I] be false! They would've been constructed as mandatory props lending credibility to the character.
As for this steadily growing mantra you guys are humming - ie, the worth of VO's posts are joined at the hip to the credibility of his identity....I question this contention. When you read a book or article, do you render a judgment based on the merits (if any) of the work, or the plausibility of the about-the-author blurb that appears at the end as an afterthought?
The question isn't [I]did VO base his arguments upon his credentials[/I], because he didn't; he would brandish them when challenged on the worth of his essays, and they were also referred to when others defended VO against one of Okie's broadsides. This is the extent of the 'con'. I don't recall very many people dwelling overly - or at all - with his 'achievements' if for no other reason that someone positing a hoax personality is almost forced to invent a modest and unassuming false identity - one that would not raise eyebrows with easily-debunked claims of Mighty Achievements. This guy claimed to vanity-publish a few books (ever [I]read [/I] a self-published political manifesto lately? They are usually dire) and claimed to be a minor elected official in a small city on a remote dot on the map that most people have never heard of except as a GEOGRAPHY answer in Trivial Pursuit. Pardon me for pointing out that these are hardly the qualifications you'd invent if your plan was to lead a mighty army of fanatical zealots. Instead, it reads like a cv you'd accept at face value - better than some, lesser than others, but just the right blend of bland & quirky to prevent you from expending the energy to verify his identity.
In other words,the appearance of a new Trisk post was hardly greeted by a sense of "oh, dear, here comes that awful braggart The King Of Iceland again." He didn't lead with his credentials - being fake, he couldn't have: it would've invited scrutiny.
Now as for his misleading people like White Jay: [U]so friggin' what[/U]? He "misled" the people who dug him with a sense of inspiration - that instead of waiting for ZOG to be [I]destroyed[/I], you could be [I]building [/I] a white future instead. Where/how is this a bad thing?
And it's not like VO had a huge fanbase - he was very much an acquired taste, with only a few diehard fans. But his message was not [I]drink piss and boink a Filipina[/I]...this is all being piled on after the fact by 'outraged' readers with no real cause for outrage. Tsun/Trisk may be a hot-lemonade gobbler (with two sugars I hope), but "VO" was a teetotaller, and you can't ascribe a unrelated detail you just unearthed [I]today [/I] with anything he wrote back [I]then[/I].
2004-05-11 09:12 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Il Ragno ...has completely sold his mind to those WN who love mocking paleo's, even when they and by implication their arguments are proven to be frauds. Reviewing his and even other's embarassingly fawning statements towards Trisk demonstrates that. [/QUOTE]
Nice logic. This all comes to light [I]now[/I], but I'm taken to task for not seeing through the ruse a year or two ago.. well, I took a look at that SF thread and I'll say this much: The Artist Known As Triskelion has been at it for 4-5 years minimum, and the Faroe Islanders are just getting wise to him now as well. Give Tsun credit for a flawless hoax instead of laughing at others for buying the exact same claptrap you did.
2004-05-11 09:31 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Nice logic. This all comes to light [I]now[/I], but I'm taken to task for not seeing through the ruse a year or two ago.. well, I took a look at that SF thread and I'll say this much: The Artist Known As Triskelion has been at it for 4-5 years minimum, and the Faroe Islanders are just getting wise to him now as well. Give Tsun credit for a flawless hoax instead of laughing at others for buying the exact same claptrap you did.[/QUOTE]Now com'mon, read the thread. You were all over me for not buying it and attacking Trisk. Also note in a certain way I was starting to get suspicious of Trisk's "achievements", but gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Where he did get me was in that story about his personal attack, and his bereaved son asking for help. To make something up like this and play off the emotions of others is the mark of a truly sick personality, that enjoys playing with people's emotions. Sort of like pornography. Some people became suspicious, especialy after his amazing recovery, but I had difficulty ascribing that much malice. It was hard to believe someone would make something like this up.
2004-05-11 09:46 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Where he did get me was in that story about his personal attack, and his bereaved son asking for help. To make something up like this and play off the emotions of others is the mark of a truly sick personality, that enjoys playing with people's emotions. Sort of like pornography. Some people became suspicious, especialy after his amazing recovery, but I had difficulty ascribing that much malice. It was hard to believe someone would make something like this up.[/QUOTE]
Well, that [I]is [/I] a reeeal long way to go to say "Wake up white people!" And likewise a fast recovery (then again, a concentrated regimen of Fiji Island nookie and single-malt urea can heal a surgical incision in 20 minutes, I've heard.)
I remember telling Avalanche privately - after my first extended argument with post-"attack" VO - "this guy's problem is they didn't hit him hard [I]enough[/I]!"
Will somebody kindly finish this off with a Tsun-reference pun on "ip" numbers, please? "I.P. Daley", "I.P. Peculiar", "I.P.N. Athermos", etc
2004-05-11 10:08 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Really? Cuz I could've sworn he'd called me an "idiot" a few posts back yet I fail to recall you chastising him for it. Not that I cared - this is what Okie and I [I]do [/I] after all - but in terms of inherent malice I kinda think "idiot" trumps the rather benign "cantaloupe-head".
Read the whole post, and compare your insults with my replies. I'd dare say far from being provoked, you rather despise me for my circumcision (take a pun shot if you like ;) )and fairness. Typical of hard WN's, one of the reason people tend not to like them.
As for this steadily growing mantra you guys are humming - ie, the worth of VO's posts are joined at the hip to the credibility of his identity....I question this contention. When you read a book or article, do you render a judgment based on the merits (if any) of the work, or the plausibility of the about-the-author blurb that appears at the end as an afterthought?
Only if you are a true affidicio do you seperate an authors arguments from questions about the author himself. Most people don't have time. We gave V.O. far more than even his arguments deserved.
The question isn't [I]did VO base his arguments upon his credentials[/I], because he didn't; he would brandish them when challenged on the worth of his essays, and they were also referred to when others defended VO against one of Okie's broadsides. This is the extent of the 'con'. I don't recall very many people dwelling overly - or at all - with his 'achievements' if for no other reason that someone positing a hoax personality is almost forced to invent a modest and unassuming false identity - one that would not raise eyebrows with easily-debunked claims of Mighty Achievements. This guy claimed to vanity-publish a few books (ever [I]read [/I] a self-published political manifesto lately? They are usually dire) and claimed to be a minor elected official in a small city on a remote dot on the map that most people have never heard of except as a GEOGRAPHY answer in Trivial Pursuit. Pardon me for pointing out that these are hardly the qualifications you'd invent if your plan was to lead a mighty army of fanatical zealots. Instead, it reads like a cv you'd accept at face value - better than some, lesser than others, but just the right blend of bland & quirky to prevent you from expending the energy to verify his identity.
Interesting analysis, some good points some weak points. But the part about the attack was certainly no small matter.
Now as for his misleading people like White Jay: [U]so friggin' what[/U]? He "misled" the people who dug him with a sense of inspiration - that instead of waiting for ZOG to be [I]destroyed[/I], you could be [I]building [/I] a white future instead. Where/how is this a bad thing?
And it's not like VO had a huge fanbase - he was very much an acquired taste, with only a few diehard fans. But his message was not [I]drink piss and boink a Filipina[/I]...this is all being piled on after the fact by 'outraged' readers with no real cause for outrage. Tsun/Trisk may be a hot-lemonade gobbler (with two sugars I hope), but "VO" was a teetotaller, and you can't ascribe a unrelated detail you just unearthed [I]today [/I] with anything he wrote back [I]then[/I].[/QUOTE] First it is true his message wasn't "boink a Filipina". If anything he liked to affect prudishness. With this part of him, like his attack, he is a strange cookie I don't understand.
As to how he misled people, though I think you are right, this is the main question. More than his personality piccadalio's and internet disguises. Read over his posts and see what he was doing.
He was arguing after all, consistently positing, a principle called "the failure of American paleoconservatism" and to a lessor extent of American WN (what he called the fetish costume set). His argument was, seperate and apart from conservatism, there was a pure set of national socialist ideology and political practice, not at all like "the Hollywood Nazi's" that would lead white folk to the promised land if they'd just forsake their stupid American conservative noitions and abandon their conservative American instincts and prejudices against "true" national socialism.
This it appears was his main reason in coming here, and elsewhere. One can only speculate on his motives, logic, and true identity, but it seems fairly clear to me. Obviously he was an American National Socialist, one who knew the movement fairly well. He had a well worked but convulated and pompous, manner and ideology which he had difficulty getting ordinary skinhead types to take seriously. So he invented the V.O. persona, so he could be a poser. No he wasn't an disgruntled "egghead type" American Nazi with an axe to grind - no, he was the might Trisk/V.O. fabulously successful (if you add up all his accomplishments) politically, financially, and personally, come over here as a disinterested observer to help America somehow share in the benefits folkishly conscious Europe had achieved.
It was a deception and a delision because it was escapism, avoiding dealing with the real problems nationalism in America must face. An escapism which American WN seems to be inescapably controlled by. An that is why he played this forum so well, and received a hero's farewell.
He was someone with a lot of ability in a certain way, and cetainly with a lot of energy. More than I or anyone else had on this forum did, especially those who gradually realized the need to oppoes him did. And that is how he was able work this forum so well.
So that is why not only his personality but his motives and agenda need to be questioned. Someone with his knowledge, energy, ad resources can do a great deal of damage if their motives and agenda are questionable. Its important therefore I think that we keep stirring this pot - not just say, "so what, he is an imposter, but what he said seemed basically true, so why not leave it at that?"
2004-05-11 10:38 | User Profile
I guess if you were strongly pro or con Trisk then this 'outing' is a big deal, and you want answers. Most of us just didn't care enough either way. VO was never Mr Excitement to me and I find this whole hoax to be a puzzling and sad reminder to spend less time online.
Now we come to the question of White Iceberg, whose loudly-trumopeted exposing of Tsun/Trisk has been hs entire Internet raison d'etre. Someone who comes out of the clouds to raise, and hammer, one issue - directed at one individual - usually has an agenda. So why do I get the feeling that Tsun knows exactly who this guy is?
2004-05-11 12:09 | User Profile
Strange, I've read both Tsun and Trisk and their writing styles are very different.
2004-05-12 00:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]I guess if you were strongly pro or con Trisk then this 'outing' is a big deal, and you want answers. Most of us just didn't care enough either way. VO was never Mr Excitement to me and I find this whole hoax to be a puzzling and sad reminder to spend less time online.
Hate to say it Raggy, but you, and most of this board, were pretty much suckerd by this guy. Read the testimonials on his parting thread, and even early on here. I was, although I disagreed more and more with his politics as I came to understand them, personally convinced of at least his legitimacy. He was after all everything a smart, non-knuckledragging WN should be - at least he talked the talk, and seemed to have lots of testimonials about walking the walk.
Now we come to the question of White Iceberg, whose loudly-trumopeted exposing of Tsun/Trisk has been hs entire Internet raison d'etre. Someone who comes out of the clouds to raise, and hammer, one issue - directed at one individual - usually has an agenda. So why do I get the feeling that Tsun knows exactly who this guy is?[/QUOTE]
I'll give you and the other WI skeptics for focusing in on the weak link in this whole thing, at least. Trisk came here, as I noted to FadetheButcher, as a seemingly reputable person in WN. All sorts of people who were in a position to know him much better than we dropped the ball, and seemed to verify his legitimacy.
Now the WN world is going with White Iceberg, including Stormfront. Having missed the boat once, have they missed it again?
Triskelion purportedly was a well known, civic-minded (with regard to the WN community at least) individualist from a remote scandanavian island, who would have us believe he was acting basically on his own, out of concern for WN. Now he has been outed by White Iceberg, for purportedly the same thing. Of course WI identity has been verified by the Stormfront moderator. But having messed up so badly on Trisk, how can we really trust them now?
I suspect we have only scratched the surface on this matter. I hope WI is legit as he says he is, just as I hoped Trisk was. Obviously these days, with all the intrigue going on, we need to know more. Even if WI findings are legit , I wonder - who did he talk to before he started to look into Trisk. Is there any agenda, of his own or of others - given to him that got him started? Your concerns sound quite close to mine.
Having been burned once, we obviously need to be more careful.
2004-05-12 00:50 | User Profile
It's really a trivial matter as just a simple ip address check in the OD database has settled the issue.
And I find it hard to believe that even when the accusations of Bjarni being triskelion were thrown around here, no one really bothered to take a peek at their ip addresses. Seeing how reluctant administration is here to reveal any ip-related info, my guess is that as much was known at that time already.
2004-05-12 01:09 | User Profile
Why does it matter if "Triskelion" is who he says he is? The whole thing is rather funny especially all the warning alerts being posted about "let this be a lesson to all of us about knowing who we are talking to" (paraphrased). What difference does it make? I was always interested in "Triskelion's" [I]erudition[/I]. He dropped names of nationalist Europeans, and basically referred to an entire tradition, that I was entirely unfamiliar with. That was why I was interested in the man. It makes zero difference whether or not he was in some deep I-Spy background. Who cares? As the perfidious say: "good show old man!" lol.
2004-05-12 01:30 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Bardamu]He dropped names of nationalist Europeans, and basically referred to an entire tradition, that I was entirely unfamiliar with. [/QUOTE]
Errr, most of the tradition he referred to, nobody had ever heard of, [B]because he made it up. [/B] :lol:
2004-05-12 01:50 | User Profile
Errr, most of the tradition he referred to, nobody had ever heard of, because he made it up.
I don't think this is true. It is too easy to do a google search on an intellectual's name. I suppose I can go back and do a little researching, but not until after Saturday. Right now I'm preparing for a test.
2004-05-27 21:14 | User Profile
Reading this is like hearing the prosecution's case and watching the defense attorney seem to be saying something, but being unable to actually hear his words. Would someone mind providing the skeletal clinchers, including relevant links on other boards, for those of us who haven't had time to follow the case? A summary is in order, for the record. If not, that's fine. Thanks.
2004-05-27 21:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ruffin]Reading this is like hearing the prosecution's case and watching the defense attorney seem to be saying something, but being unable to actually hear his words. Would someone mind providing the skeletal clinchers, including relevant links on other boards, for those of us who haven't had time to follow the case? A summary is in order, for the record. If not, that's fine. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
The thread you are reading is not the main one in this matter. Try
[url=http://forums.originaldissent.com/showthread.php?t=13575&page=6&pp=15]Triskelion aka Vibeke Ostergaard is a fictional character[/url]
Up until page 6 the White Iceland skeptics/Trisk fans carry the day. Then on page 6 suddenly Trisk is exposed, Trisk/Bjarni/Olaf disappear for good, and some of the White Iceland skeptics/Trisk fans start jumping on the OD mods for not dong their job and exposing Trisk earlier.
2004-05-27 21:45 | User Profile
Thanks for the link, Okie. No wonder I thought something was missing.
2004-05-27 21:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Ruffin]Thanks for the link, Okie. No wonder I thought something was missing.[/QUOTE]It is interesting we didn't catch TriskOlaf/Bjarni/? sooner. But this was such a voluminious fraud there were an awful lot of things to check out. It took the efforts of White Iceland, combined with the helpful contributions of Tex and Fade the Butcher, to really nail this guy.
I think that was one of the things Trisk cleverly used - the divisions in nationalism. Everyone figured the other guys really knew Trisk - actually no one of course did.
2004-05-27 23:33 | User Profile
Yeah, all those accusations of Bjarni being triskelion weren't accompanied by a peek in the OD logs. I believe that :yawn:
The funny thing is, even after all that expose, triskelion is still a more likable and logical character than some real characters on this forum. But then he's fictional :whstl:
2004-05-27 23:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Yeah, all those accusations of Bjarni being triskelion weren't accompanied by a peek in the OD logs. I believe that :yawn:
The funny thing is, even after all that expose, triskelion is still a more likable and logical character than some real characters on this forum. But then he's fictional :whstl:[/QUOTE]
It's not that we didn't know that trisk/barney/olaf was the same person, it's that we didn't know the supreme European nationalist from the Faroe islands who suffered a brutal beating in Italy at the hands of anti-racists only to miraculously recover and win a seat on the city council utilizing his failsafe political program for 'folk' nationalist revival was a complete fabrication.
Some of us, Okie more than myself, exchanged personal correspondence of heartfelt sympathy and prayers for recovery with this entity in the days after the imagined 'beating.' If I think too much about that I start getting angry. I don't believe that preying on other's emotions for God knows whatever sick, twisted reasons are attributes of a logical and/or likable character. But then again, maybe that pretty much defines what national socialists like trisk have to offer and as such he represents the ideology rather well indeed.
2004-05-28 00:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Yeah, all those accusations of Bjarni being triskelion weren't accompanied by a peek in the OD logs. I believe that :yawn:
I accept some of the blame for that. Tex was convinced, but I couldn't believe it and argued against it. I mean, it was an elaborate deception, complete with private messages from him and even his son.
It still seems odd to me. Sort of like finding out Madrussian is really Mercuria :lol:
The funny thing is, even after all that expose, triskelion is still a more likable and logical character than some real characters on this forum. But then he's fictional :whstl:[/QUOTE] Ain't that a bitch? Characters we wish were real are fictional, and vice versa.
Hey, maybe we should just take turns being Triskelion. I by now could do a pretty good rendition of him :lol:
2004-06-02 00:48 | User Profile
Not that it matters so much at this late date, with Tsun and VO having dropped from WN online circles, but it had really troubled me that "one of us" had been engaged in such degenerate behavior. This update may help explain the mental state of this character. The history of the movement is full of jews who wanted to play National Socialist and they usually end up "outed" after some bizarre act or other. This is a bit speculative, but fits... The ONLY classified ad I found for Miner Prescott's roofing services was in a Cleveland jewish newspaper, as All Roofs Inc. Notice the same phone number (apparently now out-of-service)...
ALL ROOFS INC. SLATE References/Insured 216-371-9276.
Cleveland Jewish News Classifieds
Miner Prescott
(216) 371-9276
LOCATION 750 Huron Rd E Cleveland, OH 44115
SERVICES/PRODUCTS Slate Repair Complete Renovations Flat Roofs Leaks Metal Roofs Flashing Carpentry Tuck Pointing Tear-Offs - Re-Roofs Heihts Area Repair Specialists Free Estimates
On another note, reading over this whole online debacle I see that Mad Russian took personal offense at my use of the name "Mad Arab." I wish to clarify, this was no jab at Mad Russian but a reference to the phantom author of the Necronomicon from H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulu mythos. Much like the books of Vibeke Ostergaard, the Necronomicon is evasive at best and likely fictional.
2004-06-02 05:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Mad Russian took personal offense at my use of the name "Mad Arab." I wish to clarify, this was no jab at Mad Russian but a reference to the phantom author of the Necronomicon from H.P. Lovecraft's Cthulu mythos. [/QUOTE]
I believe the "mad Arab" was named Abdul Al-Hazred.
[QUOTE]Not that it matters so much at this late date, with Tsun and VO having dropped from WN online circles, but it had really troubled me that "one of us" had been engaged in such degenerate behavior.[/QUOTE]
If there's one thing that still sticks in my craw over this VO debacle, it's that phony-sounding virtuous tone you take: White Iceland, the conscience of "us" all. Tell you what: until [B]you[/B] bleed when [B]I [/B] get cut, there is no "us" you need concern yourself over. If you want to out screwballs and posers, be my guest - just don't cloak it in cloying sanctimony. And from my experience, every online bullshit artist is a [I]serial [/I] online bullshit artist. Meaning whoever VO [I]was[/I], he's likely adopted a few new identities and is at it again even as we speak. He might even play it smart, and reappear as a woman this time.
2004-06-02 05:42 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno] If there's one thing that still sticks in my craw over this VO debacle, it's that phony-sounding virtuous tone you take: White Iceland, the conscience of "us" all. Tell you what: until [B]you[/B] bleed when [B]I [/B] get cut, there is no "us" you need concern yourself over. [/QUOTE]Sounds to me like you're still mad over him being outed. You sound just like crooked cops when one of their buddies is outed by internal affairs - gosh, those people are so sancitmonius, they aren't real cops.
Almost like a code of silence - real NS don't rat on other NS (real or not). Its that attitude which explains why "Trisk" lasted so long in the first place.
If you were going to do an unabashadly honest and sincere, rather than grandstanding, thing for once, I'd say get down on your knees and humbly apologize to WI for all the doubt you hurled at him in the beginning and honesty thank him for doing some real, honest real world investigative work, (rather than just pontificating upon ones own opinions - shute as you noted you weren't really willing to just do a simple internet forum search for WI in the beginning much less real world investigative work).
2004-06-02 05:45 | User Profile
Okie, it's your "triumph", what Spider is supposed to be thankful to WI for? If anything, it's you who should drop to your knees and do WI.
2004-06-02 05:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Okie, it's your "triumph", what Spider is supposed to be thankful to WI for? If anything, it's you who should drop to your knees and do WI.[/QUOTE]Gosh you're just sore. You and the rest had already done Trisk ten times over, and now WI shows you you're wonderful Danish suitor on the forum 900 line is probably an 80 year old operative - think of a pompous penacite. :lol:
Like you said, you'd rather have a fantasy internet presence than a real one anyway. It's funny, men who claim they're too mature for God can barely hide their whining when you expose their own Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus.
2004-06-02 06:05 | User Profile
Petty, petty man, running from thread to thread looking for an excuse to insert a reference to his illusionary "triumph". How penacitish of you. Whatever real trisk was, his online fictional persona made much more sense than you've ever done.
Oh, he's been so dangerous to your bankrupt ideology, carried around by old farts.
2004-06-02 06:56 | User Profile
I have to say MR, it looks like WI did get the goods on the Jabberwocky.- crowing by some notwithstanding.
2004-06-02 13:23 | User Profile
[QUOTE]...you'd rather have a fantasy internet presence than a real one anyway. It's funny, men who claim they're too mature for God can barely hide their whining when you expose their own Tooth Fairy or Santa Claus.[/QUOTE]
'Sfunny, all [B]I [/B] see on this board lately is any thread with either "Hitler" or "Linder" in the title racking up 200 responses in a day or two. Mostly from Oliver Cromwell and his Fun Bunch, come to think of it.
Speaking of exposing Tooth Fairies, now that the deadly menace of Cleveland roofing-baron/mind-melder Triskelion Tsun Prescott has been neutralized, perhaps we can zero in on some of the [I]other [/I] multiple-identity nippleheads littering this board. You know, like Raina/Gabrielle/Jeanne d'Orc for one.
Where was "White Iceland" on that one? Or "Okiereddust" for that matter? Oops, sorry, proud bearers of the True Cross are allowed [I]all [/I] the personalities they can squeeze in on a Pay-One-Price ticket.
While there are certain ODers here who wish to relive The Pantsing of Vikebe Ostergaard again and again (Okie keeps hitting the rewind button with such Rain Man singlemindedness, the sweat from his thumb has worn off the REW lettering), the rest of us might like to see [I]a complete list of IP numbers next to everyone's member profile[/I] to finally ascertain just who around here is actively adopting two or three fulltime personas, and which of us are satisfied with a niggardly [I]one[/I].
Who's game?
2004-06-02 14:52 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]'Sfunny, all [B]I [/B] see on this board lately is any thread with either "Hitler" or "Linder" in the title racking up 200 responses in a day or two. Mostly from Oliver Cromwell and his Fun Bunch, come to think of it.
Speaking of exposing Tooth Fairies, now that the deadly menace of Cleveland roofing-baron/mind-melder Triskelion Tsun Prescott has been neutralized, perhaps we can zero in on some of the [I]other [/I] multiple-identity nippleheads littering this board. You know, like Raina/Gabrielle/Jeanne d'Orc for one.
Where was "White Iceland" on that one? Or "Okiereddust" for that matter? Oops, sorry, proud bearers of the True Cross are allowed [I]all [/I] the personalities they can squeeze in on a Pay-One-Price ticket.
While there are certain ODers here who wish to relive The Pantsing of Vikebe Ostergaard again and again (Okie keeps hitting the rewind button with such Rain Man singlemindedness, the sweat from his thumb has worn off the REW lettering), the rest of us might like to see [I]a complete list of IP numbers next to everyone's member profile[/I] to finally ascertain just who around here is actively adopting two or three fulltime personas, and which of us are satisfied with a niggardly [I]one[/I].
Who's game?[/QUOTE]
You admitted you have at least two, IR.
Is that a big deal? No, I don't think so and I administer the board.
I'm not sure if you're just incapable of understanding the significance of the trisk revelation and why it mattered or if you're just deliberately missing the point just to go after Okie. I've explained the difference of the trisk revelation and why it mattered several times on this thread and others, so I don't see any need to repeat it here again. Can't help but think you know better than the wide-eyed, know-nothingness you display here in this post.
2004-06-02 15:24 | User Profile
[QUOTE]You admitted you have at least two, IR. [/QUOTE]
Yup. The key word is '[I]admitted[/I]'. After the first Exodus of Agnostics here a few months back, I tentatively posted a time or three as "Zut Alors", which I [I]openly admitted [/I] to half-a-dozen members here (and which was obvious to anyone who even glanced at a "Zut Alors" post), followed by a cards-on-the-table [I]public admission [/I] (without any prompting from the peanut gallery). More importantly, I didn't offer up a single sentence that wasn't consistent with what I'd posted under my IR id. Nobody 'outed' me, I volunteered the damn info.
That is (obviously) not what I'm talking about here.
Internet boards like this provide opportunity for two types of user-id mischief: people who adopt numerous identities to create a false consensus of opinion; and those who change [I]personas [/I] out of camouflage, ie, "lesbian nationalists" who morph into "dogmatic Christian harpies" (and who knows what other guises) - whose only constancy has been to show up [I]attacking members, and sowing trouble from Day One[/I].
"Jeanne" suddenly dropped her AY signature immediately upon being called on it; "Raina", you'll recall, deleted every post she'd made one fine day after one too many regs began seeing similarities between 'her' and other 'newbies'. No doubt you will find similar methodologies at work with "Gabrielle", "Ares" and sundry other part-time OD'ers.
As for "Trisk" - yes, I understand he set out to deceive and thus a tangled web he weaved. But if "Trisk" was just as bogus but trumpeted the healing grace of the One True Faith and seconded Mr Yannis in every Cromwellian particular, you'd've banned White Iceland a month ago.
2004-06-02 15:36 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]As for "Trisk" - yes, I understand he set out to deceive and thus a tangled web he weaved. But if "Trisk" was just as bogus but trumpeted the healing grace of the One True Faith and seconded Mr Yannis in every Cromwellian particular, you'd've banned White Iceland a month ago.[/QUOTE]
Well, it's obvious that you believe I have no public or personal integrity whatsoever, so there's not much to say really. I've never claimed impartiality or this a free-speech board, but I've never betrayed any personal confidence, nor would I ever.
2004-06-02 16:48 | User Profile
Tex, yesterday you re-banned Leland Gaunt (a guy I don't like even a [I]little [/I] bit) for spurious reasons: because he used the N word, which has been used (perhaps a little too frequently) here before. Yet nobody else got the chop. Of course, Leland is an unrepentant NS proponent. You tell me if there's a pattern there.
I am truly beginning to despair of these interminable Adolf Vs Jesus threads here. We all know the next wisp of smoke up the College of Cardinals' chimney ain't gonna be for [I]me[/I], but I thought I (and many others being smeared left-and-right here) had made it plain that one can admire, and even seek to perpetuate, [I]aspects [/I] of NS without endorsing the whole package kit-and-kaboodle.
But that's not good enough for the God Squad, who childishly insist that we all secretly pop boners for, and swear allegiance to, every totemic knick-knack of Hitler's regime. No, treating long-dead iconic symbols as sacrosanct harbingers of tangible living power is more properly ascribed to YOUR side of the aisle. I don't bow before the swastika, or ritually polish the souvenir Iron Cross I picked up at a gun show. [I]Some[/I] folks might, but then again, [I]some[/I] Christians pop their babies into microwave ovens to cook the 'demons' out of them. Yet if I [I]never [/I] passed up an opportunity to characterize you that way - eventually you're going to get good and pissed off at me for always taking the cheap shot. Now go ahead and tell me with a straight face that I have [I]never posted anything [/I] which a Christian could construe as fair-minded.
While I'll admit that some OD'ers get testy on this topic, it's mostly because a sizable number of OD Christians feel it their entitlement to Nazi-bait every single regular here who ever noted that the Nazis were dead-right on certain issues. That the CNs at OD actually get their righteous wrath up - when their lowbrow insults get returned measure for measure - only indicates that chutzpah isn't just for Jews anymore - if it ever was.
2004-06-02 16:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Yup. The key word is '[I]admitted[/I]'. After the first Exodus of Agnostics here a few months back, I tentatively posted a time or three as "Zut Alors", which I [I]openly admitted [/I] to half-a-dozen members here (and which was obvious to anyone who even glanced at a "Zut Alors" post), followed by a cards-on-the-table [I]public admission [/I] (without any prompting from the peanut gallery). More importantly, I didn't offer up a single sentence that wasn't consistent with what I'd posted under my IR id. Nobody 'outed' me, I volunteered the damn info.
That is (obviously) not what I'm talking about here.
Fascinating. You suggest we go after everyone's IP to ferret out multiple ID's, which you admit you do yourself. But you assert that your tactics and motives are different and better than the others. Personally, I don't know about that.
Internet boards like this provide opportunity for two types of user-id mischief: people who adopt numerous identities to create a false consensus of opinion; and those who change [I]personas [/I] out of camouflage, ie, "lesbian nationalists" who morph into "dogmatic Christian harpies" (and who knows what other guises) - whose only constancy has been to show up [I]attacking members, and sowing trouble from Day One[/I].
"Jeanne" suddenly dropped her AY signature immediately upon being called on it; "Raina", you'll recall, deleted every post she'd made one fine day after one too many regs began seeing similarities between 'her' and other 'newbies'. No doubt you will find similar methodologies at work with "Gabrielle", "Ares" and sundry other part-time OD'ers.
As for "Trisk" - yes, I understand he set out to deceive and thus a tangled web he weaved. But if "Trisk" was just as bogus but trumpeted the healing grace of the One True Faith and seconded Mr Yannis in every Cromwellian particular, you'd've banned White Iceland a month ago.[/QUOTE]
Trisk was uniquely deceptive, in the effort and real world analogies he put into his deception. In general though handles after all are made to deceive with. After all, that's why we allow them instead of requiring full name and proof of ID for anyone posting here. Except for the occasional cases where one's ID and personal characteristics have been given both from real lifeand from ones internet claims or behavior, as having real significance (Trisk was one, penacite/veronica another) speculating on the identity of handles strikes me as an occupation for people with too much time on the hands, and a need to use their energy in real politically significant activity rather than endless cyber-sleuthing and snipe-hunting. What difference does it really make what person(s) is behind Gabriella, Raina, Leaf Dragon, or Jeanne, or for that matter Il Ragno or Okiereddust? Usually you would be better served by just answering the question rather whining your opponent is playing unfair.
Madrussian has stated such with regard to Trisk, i.e. that even with his deception, he was one of the best members OD had. You accuse us of using dual standards, obviously you have some dual standards yourself. When a poster is on your side, obviously the fairness of his tactics is of less consequence.
2004-06-02 17:05 | User Profile
[QUOTE]You suggest we go after everyone's IP to ferret out multiple ID's, which you admit you do yourself. But you assert that your tactics and motives are different and better than the others. [/QUOTE]
Yup, I sure do. When you can point to any other regular who [I]freely copped [/I] to a second id - including the reasons for adopting it - without any undue pressure to do so, you go right ahead and rip me for my 'double standards'.
I made no secret of 'being' Zut Alors. I told people, I changed not an iota of my prose style, nor did I flip-flop on any opinion I'd previously stated as IR. If you feel Raina/Gabby/Jeanne is [I]directly analogous to my own example[/I], go ahead and make your best case. I'm all ears.
On the other hand, the [I]only [/I] people who had even a clue as to what was going on with VO was The Management around here (and if they weren't paying attention, not even they would've 'known'.)
This can't be stressed enough: [B]in order for a hoax to be successful, it must fool everyone[/B] (at least initially). Your only 'triumph' in this was in [I]not personally liking Triskelion[/I]. (Wow. Can I borrow your deerstalker cap, please, Mr Sherlock Holmes?) Because if you had an inkling that VO was a fraud cut from whole cloth, you'd've said so before White Iceland showed up...not after. "I never did like that guy" don't exactly [I]entitle you to the reward money[/I], y'know.
2004-06-02 17:08 | User Profile
Isn't this a bit of an unfair generalization?
This description certainly doesn't apply to me or perun, and we're both devout Christians. Neither of us takes an entirely negative view of the Third Reich.
I only get testy, if you want to use that word, when atheists/agonostics -- not Nazis -- start talking about how "irrational" Christians are.
[QUOTE=il ragno]While I'll admit that some OD'ers get testy on this topic, it's mostly because a sizable number of OD Christians feel it their entitlement to Nazi-bait every single regular here who ever noted that the Nazis were dead-right on certain issues. That the CNs at OD actually get their righteous wrath up - when their lowbrow insults get returned measure for measure - only indicates that chutzpah isn't just for Jews anymore - if it ever was.[/QUOTE]
2004-06-02 17:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Well, it's obvious that you believe I have no public or personal integrity whatsoever, so there's not much to say really. I've never claimed impartiality or this a free-speech board, but I've never betrayed any personal confidence, nor would I ever.[/QUOTE]
I believe in your integrity. And this is pure speculation on my part: this integrity is what prevented you from making your doubts about real identity of triskelion public much earlier than WI came on stage. You established Bjarni = triskelion early on, and by that time you knew where triskelion was posting from.
Of course, if this piece of intelligence was made available to Okie, he could start playing "we guessed it all along" game, making bold claims on the forum and playing a know-it-all prophet.
2004-06-02 17:14 | User Profile
No, no, no. You're mostly exempt from this, VF. Same with Perun (another guy I don't like, by the way - no sooner had I [I]registered [/I] at the Phora than he began caterwauling like a colic baby about the "idiot Italian").
Still, fairness dictates that I can't taint either of you with the same brush ....[I]because you don't fit the profile[/I].
I just wish we could put these circle-jerk 'my hero can beat up your hero' threads to bed before the board completely devolves into warring tribes.
2004-06-02 17:14 | User Profile
I agree.
[QUOTE=il ragno]No, no, no. You're mostly exempt from this, VF. Same with Perun (another guy I don't like, by the way - no sooner had I [I]registered [/I] at the Phora than he began caterwauling like a colic baby about the "idiot Italian").
Still, fairness dictates that I can't taint either of you with the same brush ....[I]because you don't fit the profile[/I].
I just wish we could put these circle-jerk 'my hero can beat up your hero' threads to bed before the board completely devolves into warring tribes.[/QUOTE]
2004-06-02 17:22 | User Profile
[QUOTE]I just wish we could put these circle-jerk 'my hero can beat up your hero' threads to bed before the board completely devolves into warring tribes.[/QUOTE]
Before? It's done devolved, bro.
I have a question for you.
When you left a while back you seemed to feel that you couldn't in good conscience be associated with OD.
What made you change your mind?
Walter
2004-06-02 17:41 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Yup, I sure do. When you can point to any other regular who [I]freely copped [/I] to a second id - including the reasons for adopting it - without any undue pressure to do so, you go right ahead and rip me for my 'double standards'.
I made no secret of 'being' Zut Alors. I told people, I changed not an iota of my prose style, nor did I flip-flop on any opinion I'd previously stated as IR. If you feel Raina/Gabby/Jeanne is [I]directly analogous to my own example[/I], go ahead and make your best case. I'm all ears. If the Zut Alors is the end of the matter as you state, then this is indeed true.
On the other hand, the [I]only [/I] people who had even a clue as to what was going on with VO was The Management around here (and if they weren't paying attention, not even they would've 'known'.)
This can't be stressed enough: [B]in order for a hoax to be successful, it must fool everyone[/B] (at least initially). Your only 'triumph' in this was in [I]not personally liking Triskelion[/I]. (Wow. Can I borrow your deerstalker cap, please, Mr Sherlock Holmes?) Because if you had an inkling that VO was a fraud cut from whole cloth, you'd've said so before White Iceland showed up...not after. "I never did like that guy" don't exactly [I]entitle you to the reward money[/I], y'know.[/QUOTE] Now TD has relayed some of the personal aspects of my prior friendship with Trisk, and my concern over his recovery. To say I "never did like they guy" certainly isn't accurate according to any fair observer. Latterly, when he morphed into Bjarni, the dynamics of course changed quite a bit. As you should expect.
Personally you're right, I never suspected him. Ideologically of course, I came to suspect him more and more. Since so much of his ideologicaly was related to his own personal experience, I think a certain tie-in is fair.
2004-06-02 17:47 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]When you (as il ragno or Zut Alors) reach into a dossier and post an OD member's name and home address (as Jeanne did on another thread, together with half-decade old quotes from my posts at FR), we'll have you pinned as Raina/Gabby/Jeanne's equal.
Agreed. Doing that is beyond the pale and will warrant an immediate banning.
To put this into perspective, Trisk was a guy with an unusual but interesting ideology who felt the need to lie about his personal achievements to sell his ideas. Unfortunate, yes. A destructive influence? No.
Now that is a matter of opinion. Personally, looking back I believe trisk initiated quite a bit of division on this board. In fact, I see the period of mine and Okie's conflict with him coming to a head as one that really began the fracturing of OD. Couple that with the fact that we had some personal investment in his trials and tribulations and I'm sure you can imagine how upsetting it was to find out the whole thing was a farce and the real-world accomplishments he used to buttress his positions and opinions here and denigrate our own were entirely made-up. Certainly that kind of disruption is more subtle and nuanced, but this place hasn't been the same ever since, so I question what kind of disruptor has a more damaging effect long-term.
In contrast, Raina/Jeanne (and probably some of the other disruptors as well) keeps files on people here, including their personal information. I strongly suspect ADL or SPLC activity behind those handles.
Very possible, but we are so small potatoes I am skeptical that anything said or done here is worth their expensive time.
As for the ban of Leland Gaunt, he was making himself a nuisance and calling people names, though on this count he was no worse than any of his opponents. I would not have banned him myself, but I'm not surprised or particularly outraged that he was.
Gaunt should have never come off the ban list and I guess something got messed up in one of our server changes. I was simply looking for an excuse to get rid of him and I make no apologies for that. Several members here who I value a great deal utterly detest his putrid filth and I agree with them.
Fade the Butcher, in contrast, seemed to be the model of propriety on this forum. Most of his posts were cut-and-pastes from scholarly articles about the history of the Catholic Church and the relationship of NS to Christianity. What Fade did to be banned is still a mystery to me.[/QUOTE]
Based on what he was currently posting and his history here, it was felt that he was simply trying to bait some established members and facilitate religious bickering.
2004-06-02 17:48 | User Profile
I'll get to your question in a sec - first, I want to address this:
[QUOTE]Before? It's done devolved, bro.[/QUOTE]
Go look at the first page or two of the How Long Have You Admired Hitler thread - which is all of 7 or 8 days old. I see reasonable, well-stated arguments, pro and con. Moreover, I see [I]civility[/I]. So don't bs me that the line in the sand was drawn long long ago. Civil, intelligent discourse requires effort...like [I]all [/I] worthwhile endeavors.
Now....
[QUOTE]When you left a while back you seemed to feel that you couldn't in good conscience be associated with OD.
What made you change your mind?[/QUOTE]
Better you should ask [I]why I left[/I]. Chalk it up to the sting of false pride. Religious-based bannings appeared imminent (thanks in no small way to your drunk-without-drinking ravings, Walter ol' kid) and nobody ought to remain where they are not wanted.
Why I came back is two-fold: one, a number of people either PM'd or e-mailed me asking me to return. Two, I happened to notice Tex remark that - contrary to popular perception - no bannings were, or would be, effected. Which led me to think that maybe - in this case - discretion was not the better part of valor, and that by voluntarily withdrawing I achieved nothing but conceding territory without a fight. And that's not really my style, although I wouldn't call my tone 'belligerent' by a long shot.
You know, in the tumult over [I]quien es mas macho, Christ o Hitler? [/I], sometimes it's easy to forget that there are momentous - often dire - current events that demand our attention, because we will all of us be living in the New Realities chain-reacted into being by said events. It's like I said the other day: if you have no candles and no matches, and you don't loudly curse the darkness at least, no one at all will ever know or care that we were even here. I suppose, in the long run, that's the most pressing reason I bother to keep showing up here - to stand athwart recent history yelling "Stop!"....now that the fellow who coined the phrase has chosen to sell short, bail out and frantically wave his made-in-Guam mini-American flag at every Perle & Wolfowitz-orchestrated Presidential photo-op.
And you want chutzpah? I'll give you chutzpah. I'm as responsible as anyone else here for the flavor and quality of OD. No disrespect towards Tex, but a message board - any msg board - is only as good as the chemistry of its contributors. And this ain't a blog....yet. So I figure I'm as entitled as anybody to speak my piece until such time as I'm forcibly silenced (if that day ever comes).
2004-06-02 17:49 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]When you (as il ragno or Zut Alors) reach into a dossier and post an OD member's name and home address (as Jeanne did on another thread, together with half-decade old quotes from my posts at FR), we'll have you pinned as Raina/Gabby/Jeanne's equal.
To put this into perspective, Trisk was a guy with an unusual but interesting ideology who felt the need to lie about his personal achievements to sell his ideas. Unfortunate, yes. A destructive influence? No. In contrast, Raina/Jeanne (and probably some of the other disruptors as well) keeps files on people here, including their personal information. I strongly suspect ADL or SPLC activity behind those handles.
I think you can suspect it, but that isn't necessarily the only reasonable explanation. Its not hard to find your old posts at FR - I've done it myself, just looking for replacement articles that our archives had lost (i.e. Sam Francis). As to your personal info, you are or at least seem more guarded about that in the past. From the past and its decisions I don't think this is hard to find either.
As for the ban of Leland Gaunt, he was making himself a nuisance and calling people names, though on this count he was no worse than any of his opponents. I would not have banned him myself, but I'm not surprised or particularly outraged that he was. Fade the Butcher, in contrast, seemed to be the model of propriety on this forum. Most of his posts were cut-and-pastes from scholarly articles about the history of the Catholic Church and the relationship of NS to Christianity. What Fade did to be banned is still a mystery to me.[/QUOTE] I'm also confused by the comings and goings of the German Trio myself, and which episode we're talking about.
2004-06-02 17:51 | User Profile
Tex,
the largest "disruptors" and divisive personalities on OD have been Walter and Okie, not triskelion. You are listening to the wrong councel. Of course, in my opinion.
2004-06-02 17:56 | User Profile
A few comments:
Texas Dissident, please keep your eye on the ball. We Christians are your friends, Tex; the nazis are your enemies. Shoving a fellow Christian in the Penalty Box while allowing wretched nazis to rant unimpeded is inexplicable. My guess is that you, as a family man, are too busy to notice all that's transpiring here.
I know you claim to agree with the nazi "Johnathan" that Hitler is not a jew. But please, take a deeper look at history. The evidence that Hitler is jewish and served a jewish agenda is simply overwhelming. You yourself have pointed out that Linder smells of gefilte fish; don't you realize that history is merely repeating itself? The nazis hate Christianity.. jews hate Christianity.. the nazis want to destroy the West.. jews want to destroy the West.. notice a pattern here? I do. My statement that Hitler was jewish is not ridiculous.. it is the truth, and the sooner you realize that the better off you'll be.
I am not Raina. I am not Trisk. I am not Covington. I am not a disruptor. I am a Christian lady with a duty grounded in honor. And this is to warn you what will happen should you fail to drive the nazis from your midst:
[size=6] THE NAZIS WILL HANG YOU ONE DAY.[/size]
P.S. Thanks to all, especially Walter Yannis, who righteously confront the enemies of Christ.
2004-06-02 18:04 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]Just out of curiosity, what were veronica/penacite's "Real Life" claims? Did he/she/it ever admit to being an Israeli? I don't frequent FR much, but it appears that veronica has another incarnation as "Allouette," posting obsessive-compulsively on any thread with the words "Israel" or "Jew."
With veronica/penacite I was talking about her behavior, not her claims. She never publically spoke on her identity to my knowledge, but her posting behavior, along with her IP pattern, certainly didn't seem that of your regular forum board amateur.
Now, returning to the topic at hand, I don't understand what damage Triskelion caused this site that there's so much ado being made about him. Regardless of his phony real-life claims, his POSTS were all reasonable and substantive. I'd rather have 100 Trisks posting intelligent, well-researched essays embellished with fake real-life accomplishments than a single troll or disruptor. Trisk didn't come here to stir up trouble, he came to preach his worldview. That he tried to give stature to his message with a fake biography is terrible, but once again, his posts as such contained nothing objectionable. Contrast this with the trolls and disruptors who grace our forum, coming with the single-minded purpose of calling people names and sowing discord and you'll see why il ragno might think that knowing who Raina/Leaf Dragon/Jeanne is may be more important than digging up dirt on Trisk.[/QUOTE]
Well what Trisk was really up to, as Tex notes, isn't clear but we suspect it with being more neferious than at first glance. There were a number of things about him when you look at him that strike you that way.
His posts, as you note, were extensive and well written, but he didn't use them simply as scholarly pieces, he had a strong agenda. Basically he just expected you, not really to go into his posts in detail, but simply to acknowlege his superiority, accept his guidance, and most importantly, accept his friends/enemies characterization list, in which he was quite severe, not scholarly at all. Which we know a number were happy to do. His abrubt departure when things weren't going his way is another sign you shouldn't just take the superficial glibness of his posts and activities here at face value.
This last characteristic, splitting this board into pro Trisk (pro-NS) and anti-NS factions (such as yours truly), certainly is still evident here. Some of it was preexisting of course, but I think looking carefully he did quite a bit to harden the lines. Which I suspect was his whole intent in being here.
2004-06-02 18:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Gaita of Lombardy]THE NAZIS WILL HANG YOU ONE DAY.[/QUOTE]
I steadfastly agree, but you can't post members' personal info here. At this juncture and in this venue, that's going way too far. I trust you can understand that.
2004-06-02 18:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Tex,
the largest "disruptors" and divisive personalities on OD have been Walter and Okie, not triskelion. You are listening to the wrong councel. Of course, in my opinion.[/QUOTE] Gosh, you just can't shake that Triskelion thing can you? :lol:
Seriously you share Trisk's inability to stomach serious, sustained disagreement, of any kind in good humour, and the inability to stomach criticism over one's inner demons. Its a good thing you aren't Stalin.
Maybe you should read Dostoevsky's Demons.
2004-06-02 18:11 | User Profile
Yes, Okie, but there is no getting around the fact that "Trisk" has spurred far more commentary, pro and con, via his [I]outing [/I] - than he [B]ever [/B] did in his tenure as a successful Internet hoax.
It's not as though a sacred hush fell over the crowd every time he showed up here. Nobody exactly thronged around his campfire, jotting down his random thoughts for later Xeroxing. He's more akin to a Far Right Tupac Shakur - his 'death' was what put him over the top!
2004-06-02 18:16 | User Profile
[QUOTE=AntiYuppie]True, thanks to the internet it isn't too difficult to dig up all sorts of information, personal or "public" on almost anybody. My point is WHY BOTHER? The only reason for somebody to obsess over me and my posts (apart from a personal enemy, which, believe it or not, I have none) is if there's a concerted effort to keep files on visible posters on far-right boards.
You underestimate your rep AY. All sorts of people I have found remember you and mayybe even obsess over you, not just the ADL types (all they certainly were very active enough here).
Now, Tex argues that boards such as this one are too small for the ADL and SPLC to be worth bothering with when they have bigger fish to fry. The fact of the matter is that ALL of the targets of ADL witch hunts are fairly small potatoes, so if they target Stormfront and VNN, why NOT target this site as well? White Nationalism is largely a decentralized, disorganized, and grassroots affair, so by necessity almost anyone or any site the ADL/SPLC targets will be small fry in the grand scheme of things. However, the ADL specializes in making mountains out of molehills, as far as they're concerned the EXISTENCE of OD and sites like it is proof positive that the Fourth Reich is right around the corner.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I disagree somewhat with Tex here. As he notes, the Trisk affair proves some people were quite interested in us - and people with quite a bit of, at least time and resources.
2004-06-02 18:21 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Yes, Okie, but there is no getting around the fact that "Trisk" has spurred far more commentary, pro and con, via his [I]outing [/I] - than he [B]ever [/B] did in his tenure as a successful Internet hoax.
No question about that.
[quote=il Ragno]It's not as though a sacred hush fell over the crowd every time he showed up here. Nobody exactly thronged around his campfire, jotting down his random thoughts for later Xeroxing. He's more akin to a Far Right Tupac Shakur - his 'death' was what put him over the top![/QUOTE]
Yeah right. Now you can find no big Trisk fans at OD, for the same reason you couldn't find any Nazi's or Hitler worshippers in Germany after WWII. You guys hung on every word. Especially of course when he was dicing me, but not just then.
2004-06-02 18:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Gosh, you just can't shake that Triskelion thing can you? :lol: [/QUOTE] It has nothing to do with triskelion at all. I haven't even read his posts much. It's about your delusional "nazi under every bed" harping and starting fights with posters who contribute something valuable to the forum. You've truly become as paranoid as a Jew with this stupid black-and-white division of the world.
By the way, my opinion of your contribution to this forum is shared by many, so it's nothing personal between me and you. My saying this may sound out of the blue for you and Walter, but I've had enough of you two destroying still a good place to post.
As for Walter, he's very explicit in his desire to dictate who he wants to stop posting on this forum, based on their religion affiliation (again, nothing to do with triskelion, you petty man).
Who needs zhids with such friends?
2004-06-02 18:36 | User Profile
[QUOTE]Now you can find no big Trisk fans at OD, for the same reason you couldn't find any Nazi's or Hitler worshippers in Germany after WWII. You guys hung on every word. [/QUOTE]
You are a [I]seriously [/I] silly man.
2004-06-02 18:40 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Who needs zhids with such friends?[/QUOTE]
In light of recent events, I'm going to have to ask myself that same question.
All this will pass, mr. I wouldn't worry too much about it.
2004-06-02 18:45 | User Profile
Tell me who your friends are?
2004-06-02 18:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]Tell me who your friends are?[/QUOTE]
I love everybody, mr.
Seriously, as expressed in the guidelines, I have a vision for this board and community and the latest coordinated attack by the internet nazis isn't going to derail it. We go back what, six or seven years? We've danced this dance more than once, you know.
2004-06-02 19:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE]THE NAZIS WILL HANG YOU ONE DAY.[/QUOTE]
There are at least 600 million Christians in the world, likely more. There are maybe a few thousand admirers of NS, most of them hobbyists, all of them powerless and decentralized.
Now that's what I call 'turning the other cheek' - outnumbering your hangmen 60,000 to 1 and [I]still [/I] marching to the gallows!
By the way.
How in the world am I supposed to keep a straight face when a [I]brand-spanking-new poster[/I] begins their tenure here with "I am not Raina, I am not Covington"?
A-a-a-and....[I]down the rabbit-hole we go![/I]
2004-06-02 20:19 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]It has nothing to do with triskelion at all. I haven't even read his posts much. You definitely have some opinions on him. I notice though you never get involved though in the theoretical points as much as just who likes and doesn't like who. Walls come and go, but mindsets take longer to change.
It's about your delusional "nazi under every bed" harping and starting fights with posters who contribute something valuable to the forum. Like Trisk and Raggy (the self appointed guiding spirit of OD)?> You've truly become as paranoid as a Jew with this stupid black-and-white division of the world. Delusional? You confuse me with yourself.
[quote=madrussian]By the way, my opinion of your contribution to this forum is shared by many, so it's nothing personal between me and you.
Yeah - the entire OD heathen front. [quote=madrussian]My saying this may sound out of the blue for you and Walter, but I've had enough of you two destroying still a good place to post.
Out of the blue? :lol:
[quote=madrussian]As for Walter, he's very explicit in his desire to dictate who he wants to stop posting on this forum, based on their religion affiliation (again, nothing to do with triskelion, you petty man). I disagree with Walter of course, in spite of your best attempts to prove him right.You do your best
[quote=madrussian]Who needs zhids with such friends?[/QUOTE]
Speaking of which, sometimes your demeanor reminds me of the old parable I heard Annalex tell.
An Englishman, a Frenchman, and a Russian were each told they only had one day to live, which they could enjoy as they please. The Englishman said he wished he could spend the day walking the moors with his dog. The Frenchmen said he would like to spend it alone with a beautiful woman and a glass of wine. The Russian said he would like to burn his neighbors house down.
Go ahead man - burn baby burn.
2004-06-02 20:38 | User Profile
No, it's not only the "heathen front" (what a stupid term, Mokie) that can't stand you. Face the reality, for once.
il ragno is definitely one of the best posters here, but there are many more. Without the posters who happen to belong to "heathen front", the forum would definitely have been uninteresting to me. Walter hallucinating while letting everyone know how much money he makes? Mokie, well, where's Mokie when there are no nazis around?
Hallucinating sociopathic Kook and funny-spelling Mokie, two clowns. That Darcy the Troll would have completed the peanut gallery.
2004-06-02 20:53 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]No, it's not only the "heathen front" (what a stupid term, Mokie) that can't stand you. Face the reality, for once.
Don't get carried away with yourself, mr. Maybe you need to take a step back and absorb the bigger picture again. Clear your head a little bit.
il ragno is definitely one of the best posters here, but there are many more. Without the posters who happen to belong to "heathen front", the forum would definitely have been uninteresting to me.
To you. But for every one of you there is one other that thinks exactly the opposite. Let's not let our egos get too inflated over the dynamics and personalities of an internet bulletin board.
Hallucinating sociopathic Kook and funny-spelling Mokie, two clowns. [/QUOTE]
Easy.
2004-06-02 20:58 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident] To you. But for every one of you there is one other that thinks exactly the opposite. [/QUOTE] I didn't notice from the time when this forum was flying under the flag of "Christian Nationalism". It was dead.
2004-06-02 21:06 | User Profile
[QUOTE=madrussian]I didn't notice from the time when this forum was flying under the flag of "Christian Nationalism". It was dead.[/QUOTE]
Quantity does not equal quality. Popularity does not equal truth.
2004-06-02 21:58 | User Profile
Out of curiosity (serious question), who were the Nazis that attacked? Fade, Guant, and Jeanne (masquerading as a Christian)?
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]I love everybody, mr.
Seriously, as expressed in the guidelines, I have a vision for this board and community and the latest coordinated attack by the internet nazis isn't going to derail it. We go back what, six or seven years? We've danced this dance more than once, you know.[/QUOTE]
2004-06-03 03:07 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]To you. But for every one of you there is one other that thinks exactly the opposite. Let's not let our egos get too inflated over the dynamics and personalities of an internet bulletin board.
I think its too late for some
[quote=Il Ragno]And you want chutzpah? I'll give you chutzpah. I'm as responsible as anyone else here for the flavor and quality of OD. No disrespect towards Tex, but a message board - any msg board - is only as good as the chemistry of its contributors. And this ain't a blog....yet.
[url]http://forums.originaldissent.com/showthread.php?p=84188#post84188[/url]
2004-06-03 03:10 | User Profile
Prove me a liar, or shut your hole.
2004-06-03 03:20 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Texas Dissident]Quantity does not equal quality. Popularity does not equal truth.[/QUOTE] I'll take it as an admission that a "Christian Nationalist" board was and would be unpopular. (Not to be driving a point too hard, but that clashes with your earlier assertion that there was one God Squader for every Heathen Fronter).
2004-06-03 03:36 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]There are at least 600 million Christians in the world, likely more. There are maybe a few thousand admirers of NS, most of them hobbyists, all of them powerless and decentralized.
Now that's what I call 'turning the other cheek' - outnumbering your hangmen 60,000 to 1 and [I]still [/I] marching to the gallows!
Fascinating. First you say Christianity is dying, then you say its utterly smother nationalism.
You make Franco and NeoNietzsche's wife look like models of clarity and logic.
2004-06-03 03:43 | User Profile
Equally fascinating: when asked to prove my prior statement (you know, the one you're passing around the back of the class with a schoolgirl giggle) false, you go deaf for a minute, then plow on.
If it weren't for the fact that you likely have larger breasts, you'd be another Jeanne d'Arc!
2004-06-03 03:46 | User Profile
Jesus Christ, are you [I]still here[/I]?
2004-06-03 03:55 | User Profile
Next time I go to town, it should be easy for me to find a Temple of Uranus - Neptune knows mine is still sore from Wintermute's classical ministrations.
Sounds like libel to me -- with or without screennames. Someone PM/e-mail Wintermute and have him call a lawyer who specializes in web law.
2004-06-03 03:56 | User Profile
Out of curiosity (serious question), who were the Nazis that attacked? Fade, Guant, and Jeanne (masquerading as a Christian)?
Yes, good question.
2004-06-03 04:03 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Jesus Christ, are you [I]still here[/I]?[/QUOTE] It's a house troll now.
2004-06-03 04:15 | User Profile
So.....how does it work - Foxman pays you by the hour? Or do you get a flat fee for this?
2005-01-04 12:04 | User Profile
Flogging a dead horse, I know...
...but since OD had the most fun of all with trisk and tsun, and because I had once mistaken it for a knock-off on Tomislav Sunic, here's how petty and personal Tsun's now-dead screen name was...
He wrote in some old news groups that Tsun was a "secret" acronym.
Knowing now that he is from Cleveland it all makes sense.
Ohio State University refer to their rivals University of Michigan as "That School Up North" or simply... yep... TSUN.
2005-01-05 23:29 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Iceland]Flogging a dead horse, I know...
...but since OD had the most fun of all with trisk and tsun, and because I had once mistaken it for a knock-off on Tomislav Sunic, here's how petty and personal Tsun's now-dead screen name was...
[/QUOTE]Again, thanks for your work White Iceland on the Tsun/Triskelion affair (as it appears the two were closely linked).
The Triskelion affair was very close to this forum, but Tsun was rather distant - just dropped through here once or twice, so I haven't followed it. Do you have any links to the latest threads on this?
Also, as a student of Triskelion, any conclusions on his motives? Just a standard WN spammer trying to embelish his identity for his ego, or could something more sinister be at work. Its something we've got an interest in knowing.
2005-01-07 04:01 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Iceland]Flogging a dead horse, I know... [/QUOTE]Speaking of flogging dead horses, time had sort of mercifully forgotten what kind of assholes people around here could be.:disgust:
Gone (at least temporarily, but maybe that is our Christmas present) but not forgotten. :clap:
2005-01-11 22:55 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Okiereddust]Also, as a student of Triskelion, any conclusions on his motives? Just a standard WN spammer trying to embelish his identity for his ego, or could something more sinister be at work. Its something we've got an interest in knowing.[/QUOTE]
I think she should answer for that. Trisk aka Vibeke Ostergaard was (at least in great part) the lady in charge of the polinco forum, editress of the Black Helicopter Chronicles [url]http://www.matriots.com/bh/[/url], mainstay of the whole matriots operation and generally clever lass. I think she sticks to her Dutch-language forum [url]http://www.polinco.net/[/url], posts to SF as Xena and gets generally pissed that she was mixed up with a royal perv like Tsun.
The most ill motive would have been a big book sale rip-off, which I doubt.
More likely just trying to set an example by lying about something that should have been true... the folk community project. Damn shame...
2005-01-11 23:39 | User Profile
Spidey "Scoop" Ragno here, with this late-breaking news that TRISKELION IS JAMES HETFIELD - repeat - TRISKELION IS JAMES HETFIELD.
The full details, plus Sal with sports and Dr Steve with tomorrow's weather, on the Action News At Ten....
2005-01-11 23:45 | User Profile
[QUOTE=il ragno]Spidey "Scoop" Ragno here, with this late-breaking news that TRISKELION IS JAMES HETFIELD - repeat - TRISKELION IS JAMES HETFIELD.[/QUOTE]
Ha ha ha... you don't get around Stormfront much, do you?
2005-01-12 00:50 | User Profile
[QUOTE=White Iceland]I think she should answer for that. Trisk aka Vibeke Ostergaard was (at least in great part) the lady in charge of the polinco forum, editress of the Black Helicopter Chronicles [url]http://www.matriots.com/bh/[/url], mainstay of the whole matriots operation and generally clever lass. I think she sticks to her Dutch-language forum [url]http://www.polinco.net/[/url], posts to SF as Xena and gets generally pissed that she was mixed up with a royal perv like Tsun.
Aye, Jennifer, from Polinco, who we knew back from a little spat she stirred up at Sam Francis.
That explains a great deal. I think she just had two motives for the "Vibeke Oostergard" deception. First she has a rather prickly personality, some of the responsibilities of which she wanted to disassociate herself from (as "Bjarni" demonstrates). She also obviously had ambitions for herself among American paleo-nationalist circles, recognized her own prickly reputation somewhat limited them, and came up with the Vibeke Oostergaard persona as a way of embelishing her resume.
To give her credit, Vibeke was quite a success here, and not without reason. She obviously is a hard worker and has put in a lot of study and effort, something that for some reason she didn't think she'd receive adequate credit for under her real name
More likely just trying to set an example by lying about something that should have been true... the folk community project. Damn shame...[/QUOTE]Agreed. But we all know its much easier to talk about things than to do them.
And its also easy to damage your credibility by such embellishment. Also a shame, because she I think had a great deal of good information and knowledge we could use.
Not really a unique problem in the WN community. It has always struggled to recognize how a few bad actors and bad actions can damage it so much, and find ways to effectively minimize this sor of damage. Otherwise I think people would be much more inclined to listen to White Nationalists and their allies.
2005-01-14 05:59 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Frederick William I]I won't add the full story to what Tex has hinted at, but I will say at the minimum that this does include Tex's conjecture about "Trisk"/"Bjarni"/"OlafLyncker" . This is verifiable.
[url]http://forums.originaldissent.com/showpost.php?p=80273&postcount=44[/url][/QUOTE]
I've always wondered what you meant by this. Frederick.
2005-01-14 08:45 | User Profile
[QUOTE=weisbrot]I've always wondered what you meant by this. Frederick.[/QUOTE]I meant that I am almost as sure that Olaf/Bjarni/Trisk were the same person as I and FWI were. I was just being a little vague cause I didn't want to violate forum policy on this, but after that statement Tex came right out and said that he'd verified this with an I.P. check, as I did also.
We really in retrospect, I in particular, weren't the swiftest people on this. I guess I personally prefer, like most of you I think, to take people at their word and impute good intentions.