← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Valley Forge
Thread ID: 13609 | Posts: 22 | Started: 2004-05-07
2004-05-07 23:18 | User Profile
You really don't have to read past the first paragraph to know what's getting ready to happen, but here you go. Enjoy!
[COLOR=Blue][SIZE=5]Sharon sketches awful alternative[/SIZE][/COLOR]
WASHINGTON -- A grim warning from Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to President Bush that Iran is much closer to producing nuclear weapons than U. S. intelligence believes has triggered concern here that Israel is seriously considering a pre-emptive strike against Iran's Bushehr nuclear reactor.
Sharon dramatized his forecast by bringing Maj. Gen. Yoav Galant, a three-star army officer who serves as his military secretary, to a meeting with Bush in the Oval Office two weeks ago, U.S. and Israeli sources tell me. Galant showered a worried-looking Bush with photographs and charts from a thick dossier on Iran's covert program.
So much for the news. Now the analysis: Oy. And vey.
Sharon's description of the unacceptable risks of Iran being able to launch "a nuclear holocaust" comes just as the Bush administration is making headway in constructing a diplomatic containment strategy for the nuclear weapons programs of Iran and North Korea. Unilateral Israeli action against Iran would destroy this strategy and gravely complicate Bush's reconstruction efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan as well.
Bush's frequently warring senior policy-makers have reached a consensus (now there's news) in recent weeks that the United States has no attractive military options in Iran or North Korea. Instead, Washington must work with its allies to impede these rogue efforts to create nuclear arsenals. Europe and Russia have responded by increasingly distancing themselves from Iran and by joining the Bush team in pressuring North Korea into multilateral talks.
Knee-jerk Bush critics will no doubt poke fun or scorn at these post-Iraq multilateralist efforts. As someone almost said once, let them eat yellowcake. An improving climate in trans-Atlantic relations as the bitterness over Iraq recedes makes this strategy the best bet for the next six months, and probably beyond. U.S. officials believe they can use that time to put new obstacles in the way of the Iranian and North Korean programs.
But Sharon's presentation to Bush challenges the assumptions and viability of the emerging U.S. non-proliferation strategy on Iran. U.S. intelligence estimates that put Iran's covert nuclear weapons drive about four years short of being able to turn plutonium into a workable nuclear warhead overstate the time factor by at least 100 percent, Sharon argued. One to two years is his projected timeline.
To be sure, Sharon would face formidable logistical and political problems in trying to update Israel's successful pre-emptive 1981 strike against Iraq's Osirak reactor. His Oval Office briefing may have been designed to pressure Bush to move more forcefully on Iran rather than to advertise an impending Israeli action.
Israeli leaders have consistently warned Americans for two decades that Iran's Islamic regime is a mortal enemy for the Jewish state and must not be underestimated. Sharon's account, while apparently more urgent and dramatic than past presentations, fits a pattern of Israel "treating a nuclear-arming Iran as an immediate existential threat," says one U.S. official, while Washington does not.
But it is Israel's experience with Osirak that makes Sharon's alarming words impossible to ignore. The trigger for that strike was intelligence that the Iraqi reactor was about to be loaded with nuclear fuel. Hitting it after the loading would have risked spreading radioactive contamination across a wide area in the Middle East. And after the 1991 Gulf War it was discovered that outside assessments -- including Israel's -- underestimated how close Saddam Hussein had been to getting the bomb.
Russian delivery of fuel to the Bushehr reactor that it will complete for Iran later this year could be taken by the Israelis as a similar point of no return. The Iranians also have a covert uranium mining and enrichment effort under way that could be tied into the Bushehr reactor, international inspectors have reported.
"The enrichment effort is the bigger unknown for us," says a U.S. official. "But our estimate is that Iran does not now have a completely indigenous nuclear capability. Efforts to prevent it from reaching that point of no return are worth pursuing. The longer you can keep Russia from delivering the fuel, the better off you are."
A yearlong effort led by Undersecretary of State John Bolton to persuade Russia and other countries to be more wary of Iran seems to be making inch-by-inch progress. Moscow has joined in summit-level statements critical of Iran, and Germany and France recently blocked shipment of aluminum tubes useful to Iran's enrichment program. Bolton will seek new action from the International Atomic Energy Agency at a Sept. 8 meeting.
Hope that he gets it. Whatever his purpose, Sharon has usefully sketched one awful alternative to the Bush administration making multilateralism work for it.
[url]http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/134697_hoagland13.html[/url]
2004-05-07 23:29 | User Profile
They have no idea how much deep s*** they will be in if they do this. This time they will have bitten off far more than they can chew.
2004-05-07 23:38 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Peter Phillips]They have no idea how much deep s*** they will be in if they do this. This time they will have bitten off far more than they can chew.[/QUOTE]
Peter, Out of curiosity, why do you say that? Is it because of ties between Russia and Iran?
2004-05-07 23:59 | User Profile
Here you have some REALLY groovy geopolitical scheme dealing with this subject, Valley:
[COLOR=Blue]"Russia Ready to Vaporize the Jewish State"
[url]http://www.joevialls.co.uk/myahudi/sunburn.html[/url][/COLOR]
Petr
2004-05-08 01:34 | User Profile
Yes, enjoy reading totally unsubstantiated claims about Russian and American naval capability from some Aussie-based guy named 'Joe.'
2004-05-08 02:03 | User Profile
Come on, darky, it is imaginative people like Vialls, who think big, that make all the great discoveries.
And even if they won't, they'll keep us entertained.
:D
Petr
2004-05-08 03:37 | User Profile
How to stop the Zionist State of Israel and the USA if I were the other side,,,,,,,,, for the cost of 90 millions dollars I would obtain 3 nuclear devices, place two in the state of Israel and one in a city in the USA and after that I would tell the state of Israel about one of the two and the US about the one and where to find them,,,,,,,, I would tell them what I wanted, for all Jews to leave Palestine and give them 90 days, no more no less,,,,,,, at the end of 90 days if one single Jew remains in Palestine I would detonate the one left there,,,,,,,,
Of course, neither country would know exactly how many more there are therefore Washington would "make" all Jews leave Palestine.
I believe that doing this would save not only the Palestinian people but also the American people and the world.
If I say the above is because I "know" that the Jews are the ones responsible for 90 percent of the world's problem,,,,,,, amen.
2004-05-08 04:05 | User Profile
I take it that you are about twelve years old?
[QUOTE=Ponce]How to stop the Zionist State of Israel and the USA if I were the other side,,,,,,,,, for the cost of 90 millions dollars I would obtain 3 nuclear devices, place two in the state of Israel and one in a city in the USA and after that I would tell the state of Israel about one of the two and the US about the one and where to find them,,,,,,,, I would tell them what I wanted, for all Jews to leave Palestine and give them 90 days, no more no less,,,,,,, at the end of 90 days if one single Jew remains in Palestine I would detonate the one left there,,,,,,,,
Of course, neither country would know exactly how many more there are therefore Washington would "make" all Jews leave Palestine.
I believe that doing this would save not only the Palestinian people but also the American people and the world.
If I say the above is because I "know" that the Jews are the ones responsible for 90 percent of the world's problem,,,,,,, amen.[/QUOTE]
2004-05-08 08:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Valley Forge]Peter, Out of curiosity, why do you say that? Is it because of ties between Russia and Iran?[/QUOTE] Well, not just that. First, no one would support that - not even Britain (sounds loony but its true). So youll have the United States marching off behind the shitty little country trying to beat the hell out of the Iranians.
Secondly, youve got Pakistan right next door which is armed with Nukes. Fundamentalists in Pakistan will take it as another assault on Moslem honour. They could topple Genral Moustache's government and take control. That itself would have such a horrific impact that it doesnt bear thinking about.
Thirdly, you could have a domino effect and many Arab regimes that are really puppets in the hands of the US could come crashing down in a hurry.
Fourthly, Iran has at the moment a budding movement to overthrow the Ayatollahs. That movement would receive a setback. The fundamentalists would get bolder again and they would continue with their project for building Nukes.
Fifthly, it would give enough ammunition to some Arabs to say to themselves, "right, enough is enough". You could have a suicide bomber sneak into Israel with a Nuke.................and you can imagine the rest. Its not inconceivable. Theyve tried every trick in the book but they cant stop the Palestinian suicide bombers.
Lastly, it would add even more fuel to fire. Moslems the world over will be enraged to the point where every little village in every Moslem country will be producing terrorists like a factory.
Israel did attack Iraq in 1981 and blow up their reactors. But that was then, this is now. They could get away with it then. A lot of Arabs didnt like Saddam, he had started a War with Iran and people were divided. Today all Moselms universally hate Israel with venom.
I doubt if they can get away with it now. Theyre in much deeper s***.
2004-05-08 16:02 | User Profile
[QUOTE=darkstar]I take it that you are about twelve years old?[/QUOTE]
One day a father and daughter were traveling in their car and they came to a place where they saw a truck stuck under an underpass, the people there were talking about how to get the truck free,,,,, and to make the story short,,,,,,,, she told her dad that they should take the air out of the tires in order to lower the truck, and yes, she was 12 years old.
So Darkstar, what do you want? a few millions dead now or 50 millions dead at a later date?,,,,,,,, Muslims are all over the world and Americans are only in one country, so the choice is yours.
2004-05-08 16:13 | User Profile
[QUOTE=darkstar]Yes, enjoy reading totally unsubstantiated claims about Russian and American naval capability from some Aussie-based guy named 'Joe.'[/QUOTE]Actually, I have seen that story mostly corroborated by other news sources. It might have been AP or Reuters via Yahoo News. If I can find a link, I'll post it. In the meantime, let's not forget that the Russians were engaging in nuclear deployment exercises around the time when the US was preparing to invade Iraq, and that was all over the mainstream international news. Those exercises might be related to those discussed in the Vialls article.
If you want very credible analyses of the military capability of Russia, the US, and/or other countries, the Federation of American Scientists has a good website:
[url]http://www.fas.org/main/home.jsp[/url]
2004-05-09 10:08 | User Profile
But Ponce, if that is done we'll have all the survivors over here! :p
Israeli leaders have consistently warned Americans for two decades that Iran's Islamic regime is a mortal enemy for the Jewish state and must not be underestimated.
All purpose version:
Israeli leaders have consistently warned Americans for two decades that [fill in the blank with whatever country that Israel is mad at at the time] regime is a mortal enemy for the Jewish state and must not be underestimated.
One wonders if there will ever be a time when Israel can get along with other nations without trying to stir something up and drag us into it.
2004-05-09 16:22 | User Profile
You guys are living in the here now with your beer and your big screen TV........ the Jews make plans not for next week or next month or next year but for one hundred years in advance.
I don't mind telling you that after my own people (Cubans) and the Japanese people the ones that I admired the most are the Jews, they have a purpose in life no matter how much I disagree with them.
You people wake up before is to late and your great grand children's are under the thumb of the Jews, more than what they are now.
2004-05-09 23:38 | User Profile
A war against Iran is not viable. In a Pentagon wargame played in 2002, the US even lost against a competently-managed Iraq. I kid you not:
"In the first few days of the exercise, using surprise and unorthodox tactics, the wily 64-year-old Vietnam veteran sank most of the US expeditionary fleet in the Persian Gulf, bringing the US assault to a halt." [url]http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,787018,00.html[/url]
2004-05-10 03:46 | User Profile
According to Rense.com the Zionist State of Israel is getting ready to attack Iran,,,,,,soooooooo,,,,,,, this time it will be different from last time.
I will be very disappointed if the Arabs allowed the Jews to get away with it, this time, as they did last time.
If the above happens then that will be the signal to the Zionist that the Arab world is their personal backyard and that they can do what ever they want at any time and at any place.
2004-05-10 16:47 | User Profile
Look for the NWO Globalists or the Mossad to pull another 911 and point the finger at Arabs. With support for the war waning in the United States, somebody needs to whip the people into a war frenzy again -- and possibly justify a draft to rectify the manpower shortage in the military.
2004-05-10 18:10 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Paleoleftist]A war against Iran is not viable.[/QUOTE] There's more than one way to wage a war. Ground invasion isn't always necessary. * Destroy their air force. * Destroy their military and civilian communications systems. * Impose strict no-fly zones supported with regular bombing runs to keep the enemy off-balance. * Impose strict economic sanctions to de-stablize the government. * Provoke insurgency which the enemy government will be obliged to repress with harsh measures, evidence of which can then be presented to the UN to garner international support for any further actions should the enemy still be showing some resistance to rule by ZOG.
The US military is probably capable of doing all this even while occupying Iraq. They may only be waiting on the replenishment of their cruise missile and smart-bomb inventory before the show begins.
2004-05-10 19:18 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Wayland]There's more than one way to wage a war. Ground invasion isn't always necessary. * Destroy their air force. * Destroy their military and civilian communications systems. * Impose strict no-fly zones supported with regular bombing runs to keep the enemy off-balance. * Impose strict economic sanctions to de-stablize the government. * Provoke insurgency which the enemy government will be obliged to repress with harsh measures, evidence of which can then be presented to the UN to garner international support for any further actions should the enemy still be showing some resistance to rule by ZOG.
The US military is probably capable of doing all this even while occupying Iraq. They may only be waiting on the replenishment of their cruise missile and smart-bomb inventory before the show begins.[/QUOTE]
Good analysis, Wayland. But the Neocons would need a powerful pretext for that, or the EU and Russia might quite openly side with Iran. Donôt underestimate how much some of us are fed up. And an embargo openly defied by Europe and Russia, not to mention China, wouldnôt work.
2004-05-10 22:56 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Valley Forge]Look for the NWO Globalists or the Mossad to pull another 911 and point the finger at Arabs... [/QUOTE] Precisely, and it looks like they're working on that here, right now. [QUOTE=Paleoleftist]Good analysis, Wayland. But the Neocons would need a powerful pretext for that, or the EU and Russia might quite openly side with Iran. Donôt underestimate how much some of us are fed up. And an embargo openly defied by Europe and Russia, not to mention China, wouldnôt work.[/QUOTE] In accord with Paleoleftist, would you go into the "possible pretext" idea more? [QUOTE=Sertorius]One wonders if there will ever be a time when Israel can get along with other nations without trying to stir something up and drag us into it.[/QUOTE] The essential question! Their foundation & history substantially demonstrates that they will never 'get along' without lateral corruption and destruction of host societies. They are a socio-parasitical variant on the human species. As a culture/religion/race they are predisposed to exploitation, deceit and usury. It's who they are, by nature. [to all lurking zionists: how about a spirited retort to this 'hateful' statement? Yes, you know what you are.]
2004-05-10 23:25 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Paleoleftist]Good analysis, Wayland. But the Neocons would need a powerful pretext for that, or the EU and Russia might quite openly side with Iran. Donôt underestimate how much some of us are fed up. And an embargo openly defied by Europe and Russia, not to mention China, wouldnôt work.[/QUOTE] In a sane world these would be valid points. But in this propagandized Let's roll and nuke'm bizarro world I can truly hear the neocons saying "Who's gonna stop us?" while they wind up Bush for another slogan-chanting war against evil.
2004-05-11 00:17 | User Profile
[QUOTE=Scott Paine]The essential question! Their foundation & history substantially demonstrates that they will never 'get along' without lateral corruption and destruction of host societies. They are a socio-parasitical variant on the human species. As a culture/religion/race they are predisposed to exploitation, deceit and usury. It's who they are, by nature.][/QUOTE]
Jews promote conflict because they understand their own exploitative nature better than anyone -- they know that the exploitative nature of parasitic Talmudism will always awaken resistance in their Gentile host societies sooner or later -- thus, Jews work day and night at sowing discord and promoting conflicts like Catholic v. Protestant, Black v. White, Christian v. Muslim, Conservative v. Liberal, and so on. And while this certainly isn't news to anyone of this forum, I think it bears repreating because there are still many people out there who don't yet understand the true nature of our foe, and even fewer willing to admit that there is in all likelihood only one solution possible in the face of such implacable hatred.
2004-05-11 01:39 | User Profile
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Bush plans this week to impose economic sanctions on Syria for supporting terrorism and failing to stop guerrillas from entering Iraq, people involved in the deliberations said on Monday.
Congressional sources said Bush was expected to curb future investments by American energy firms in Syria and prohibit Syrian aircraft from flying into the United States.
Bush was also expected either to block transactions involving the Syrian government or to ban exports to Syria of U.S. products other than food and medicine, the sources said.
A White House announcement on the sanctions is planned as early as Tuesday.
The move comes after lawmakers, who helped push legislation through Congress last year to sanction Syria, complained that Bush appeared to be appeasing Damascus by not implementing the penalties under the so-called Syria Accountability Act.
The lawmakers, Reps. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen[*], a Florida Republican, and Eliot Engel [yes], a New York Democrat, said they were preparing legislation for stiffer penalties on Syria [B]and additional measures to isolate and weaken its government[/B].
The Syria Accountability Act, passed by the House and Senate by overwhelming margins, offered Bush a menu of sanctions to punish Damascus for supporting terror groups, failing to stop guerrilla fighters from crossing into Iraq from Syria, developing chemical and perhaps biological weapons, and keeping troops in Lebanon.
[url]http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=politicsNews&storyID=5091529[/url]