← Autodidact Archive · Original Dissent · Texas Dissident
Thread ID: 1338 | Posts: 21 | Started: 2002-06-19
2002-06-19 09:13 | User Profile
[url=http://www.originaldissent.com/paulf061902.html]REPARATIONS AND WESTERN GUILT: The National Zero Degrees of Separation[/url]
by Paul Fallavollita
Rough times befall our Sister Republic, Switzerland, of late. Globalist corporations, bankers, and academics maneuvered the Swiss a couple months ago into joining the United Nations, sacrificing her long-standing, precious, and hard-won independence and sovereignty. Americaââ¬â¢s Founding Fathers admired the Swiss and hoped to emulate her ways. Like America, however, the Swiss are sliding fast down the deadly precipice toward the New World Order.
Now, the spawn of Sambo and Shylock alternately shake down the noble descendants of William Tell. These two forces are linked by a common desire to acquire other peopleââ¬â¢s money in the name of political correctness and imagined past wrongs. Edward D. Fagan, the attorney who sued Swiss banks for "Holocaust reparations," forcing the banks to provide a $1.25 billion settlement in 1998, is suing the Swiss banks UBS and Credit Suisse for making loans to South Africa during the 1985-93 embargo of the star-crossed Boer Republic. Fagan believes that the banks somehow harmed Blacks by "financing" South Africaââ¬â¢s system of racial separatism, known as apartheid.
How racial separatism hurts Blacks (or Whites) is beyond me. Human beings have certain natural requirements, including food, water, exercise, and the like, but has anyone ever sickened or died from too little "diversity?" If so, how did human beings ever survive thousands of years of geographical separation across the various continents of this planet, a condition which some trace back to Godââ¬â¢s scattering of the peoples after the Tower of Babel debacle?
Nevertheless, Fagan believes he can win his case. He managed to extort $8 billion from European companies in Holocaust reparations, so he has a track record of success, unfortunately. In the United States, Fagan is representing Deadria Farmer-Paellmann, who filed a reparations suit in April against Fleet Boston Financial, Aetna Insurance, and the CSX railroad because these companies allegedly assisted in the slave trade. Fagan also works on a copycat case filed in May by a North Carolina slaveââ¬â¢s grandson, Richard E. Barber, Sr., against the insurance company New York Life, the Norfolk Southern railroad, and the Brown Brothers Harriman financial house. The plaintiffs will likely press for astronomical sums.
As a debating point, I often asked "how is this constant prodding for the peoples of the West to bow down at the altar of the Holocaust any different from the demand of the Blacks for slave reparations?" Faganââ¬â¢s simultaneous work on Holocaust and slave reparations now confirms that there is no difference, and that indeed the two are intimately linked. Both constitute an economic and ideological assault on Western man. The unity of these two "aggrieved" professional victim groups is best summed up in writing with the Yiddish-meets- Ebonics phrase, "Holocau$t Reparamations."
This tag-team effort of Blacks and Jews comes as no surprise. Take the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) as an example. The brains of the operationââ¬âthe Jews, not the Blacks who supply the brawn, founded that organization in 1909. Many people are unaware of this fact.
The plaintiffs in these reparations cases have replaced the crude announcement of the bank robber, "stick ââ¬Ëem up!," with "Iââ¬â¢m Black and/or Jewish." With each utterance of those phrases, they expect to receive a hefty bag of cash. If their mark fails to cooperate, there are negative consequencesââ¬âthe robber fills the markââ¬â¢s gut with lead, while minority activists brand the mark a racist, file lawsuits, and organize demonstrations and boycotts.
According to the reparations activists, everyone is equally guilty. What is the logical cut-off point for the chain of associations and connections? After all, at some point, everyone deals with each other. Will they sue the dentist who took care of the slaveholderââ¬â¢s teeth, for example? How many degrees of separation establish innocence? As these lawsuits chip away at the barriers of time and distance, guilt becomes equalized and collectivized. This is a predictable outcome of liberalism, which is merely a mild form of socialism that prefers regulation to nationalization.
Blacks and Jews do not have a valid claim on the consciences or wallets of the Westââ¬â contrary to popular belief, they are neither special nor magical. Those two groups are no different from the many others that have been killed, enslaved, or persecuted under the aegis of "group egoism"ââ¬âwhich is a natural and enduring facet of human behavior. How long must we pay an undeserved penance for slavery and the Holocaust? Will these victimological demands continue to arise 500 years from now? Will they still be heard a millennium from today? One suspects that this particular statute of limitations will only expire when we Westerners decide we have had enough. The true crimes Westerners are guilty of are being too kind, too sensitive, too tolerant, too progressive, too soft, and too damn gullible.
Paradoxically, Fagan may be the best unwitting political ally of paleoconservatives and nationalists. Westerners give short shrift to the old concepts of honor and loyalty to heritage these days, but money still talks. Faganââ¬â¢s antics hit the Swiss and Americans in their pocketbooks, and that is likely to wake them up and motivate them to take their countries back exclusively for themselves and their posterity. The Swiss allowed the United Nations to assimilate their nation, and Americans stood by while minority activists pulled the name of George Washington off high school buildings in New Orleans. Eventually, they will feel a righteous resentment when they realize these activists are draining their bank accounts and causing their insurance premiums to rise. Fagan should enjoy his job while he still has it, for one day he will find himself on trial, to be sent to the gallows for his subversive activities against Western Civilization.
June 19, 2002
Paul Fallavollita holds an M.A. in political science from Purdue University in West Lafayette, Indiana. He can be reached at [pfallavollita@aol.com]
Happy Juneteenth everyone! B)
2002-06-19 20:53 | User Profile
Waiting for the Chinese!!!
Contrary to what the American media believe, far more Chinese died from Japanese brutality than Jews killed by Germans. That this era is called the Holocaust referring only to deaths of Jews and condemning "others" to the ashbin of history reveals much of our national character and how easily we are led.
The United States was the great supplier to the Japanese war machine prior to their attack on Pearl Harbor as Mao informed Marine General Evans Carlson. Americans like to believe World War II started on December 7, 1941, but many people believe otherwise and despise us for our naiveté. America bears far more responsibility for the deaths of millions of Chinese than for the deaths of Jews.
The United States would have been better served if the Swiss had roared up on their legs and bellowed "Hell no - we won't pay." Just wait until the Chinese discover the American legal system with our shyster lawyers willing to bankrupt the country on behalf of anyone willing to pay them.
2002-06-19 22:38 | User Profile
"Waiting for the Chinese!!!
Contrary to what the American media believes, far more Chinese died from Japanese brutality than Jews killed by Germans. That this era is called the Holocaust referring only to deaths of Jews and condemning "others" to the ashbin of history reveals much of our national character and how easily we are led.
The United States was the great supplier to the Japanese war machine prior to their attack on Pearl Harbor as Mao informed Marine General Evans Carlson. Americans like to believe World War II started on December 7, 1941, but many people believe otherwise and despise us for our naiveté. America bears far more responsibility for the deaths of millions of Chinese than for the deaths of Jews." -edward gibbon The third paragraph of yours above is equally verifiable.
When you're right, you're right. America is a land of the people. They're never really very "strong" character wise. (Of course they don't even recognize that, whether they're rich or poor or inbetween the sheets.) Not very many stiff necks, right-?-in a car load? The only thing I would add, is SINCE that's the case, does it not have to be considered, in terms of geopolitical realities. PLEASE understand, I'm with you on this... and even though you or even "we" for example contributing to this site, are in some sense the exception(s), doesn't it only prove the rule?
The Europeans are usually a bit stronger in this regard, than our 'nation of immigrants', however what's happened to their necks or backs today. Is everyone on their faces, exclusively for the almighty buck? You'd think they might at least add something else, anything else, in tandem, before which they'd grovel?
The last thing I wonder is...OR although I agree with you, are we missing some elusive "intangible" even closer to the bone, we can't apprehend it?
Probably not... it's probably just as gross, as it appears.
2002-06-19 23:21 | User Profile
George:
The greatest virtue that the contemporary American lacks is courage. Winston Churchill, I believe, stated courage was the first virtue without which all things are not possible. Yes - I do believe this society is driven almost entirely for the buck. I sense we will suffer for this malady shortly.
2002-06-20 00:03 | User Profile
Man the Fort!! The USA is under attack
[I almost had a heart attack when I first read this ]
[url=http://www.forward.com/issues/2001/01.04.06/news4.html]http://www.forward.com/issues/2001/01.04.06/news4.html[/url]
Survivors' Lawsuit Seeks $40 Billion From U.S. for Not Bombing Auschwitz FORWARD STAFF
In a bizarre addition to the Holocaust-related suits now winding their way through the courts, two German-Jewish survivors of the Auschwitz death camp are suing the American government for its failure to bomb the camp.
The plaintiffs in the class-action suit, Kurt Julius Goldstein, 87, and Peter Gingold, 85, are asking for $40 billion in compensation for survivors and the descendants of the Jews killed in Auschwitz in the closing months of World War II. They claim that a decision to bomb the camp would have rescued some 400,000 Hungarian Jews who were deported there in 1944 and 1945.
The suit was filed with the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia on January 2. Judge Emmet G. Sullivan issued a summons to the U.S. attorney general on March 8. The government has 60 days to respond.
Holocaust scholars here were largely dismissive of the suit. "This is silly and ridiculous," said Michael Berenbaum, co-editor of "The Bombing of Auschwitz," a comprehensive historical study published last summer. "How can you litigate on the conduct of the war? And why don't they sue the German government for creating Auschwitz in the first place?"
But the suit's legal architect insisted it has raised important issues. "This is not some crazy lawsuit," said Peter Wolz, a Düsseldorf lawyer who said it took him three years to build the suit. "The attitude of the U.S. government during the war, and especially its decision not to bomb Auschwitz, need to be addressed in a legal case."
American legal experts say that the case will probably be dismissed because of the "sovereign immunity" statute, which protects governments from being sued for their actions ââ¬â or inaction, in this case. Mr. Wolz contends that the protection should not apply because genocide-related issues are governed by international law.
"It is a dead-end," said a prominent legal scholar who spoke on condition of anonymity. "There is no way a U.S. court will accept this kind of argument."
In the past few years, Jewish survivors have filed numerous lawsuits against Swiss banks, German companies and other European entities and governments, leading to several multi-billion-dollar settlements. Recently, however, the focus has been shifting toward America's role in the Nazi atrocities and their aftermath. A lawsuit, since dropped, was filed against IBM alleging that its German subsidiary colluded with the Nazi regime.
The Auschwitz bombing suit, despite its remote chances of success, is creating a sense of unease among Jewish organizations. The $40 billion sought in compensation is also raising eyebrows. The Swiss banks, for example, settled for $1.25 billion and German industry and government for $5.2 billion.
"It gives the Holocaust movement a bad name," said Marc Stern, legal affairs director of the American Jewish Congress. "It is going to be seen as 'The Jews are really out there to get all the money they can from the Holocaust.'"
Elan Steinberg, the executive director of the World Jewish Congress, which has been at the forefront of Holocaust restitution campaign, said, "We absolutely don't support it."
Mr. Wolz, who is not Jewish, said that he based his 600-page case on Mr. Berenbaum's book, on his own findings among recently declassified archival materials and on other unclassified documents, including documents from U.S. government agencies.
The central claim of the suit draws its impetus from an executive order signed by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt on January 22, 1944, calling on the government to take all measures to rescue the European Jews.
"Why did the executive order not go through?" Mr. Wolz asked. He claims the order was ignored because of the influence of a group of America's biggest companies, which continued to do business with Nazi Germany during the war. He asserts that the U.S. Air Force, which controlled the European skies in 1944, could easily have bombed the railways and the bridges bringing the Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz between May and July 1944. But the camp and its supply lines were taken off the final list of target proposals and never were bombed.
"We want to show that because some people at the top of the U.S. government and some major American companies had sympathies and business links with Nazi Germany, hundred thousands of Jewish lives were not saved," said Mr. Goldstein, who lives in Berlin. He said he spent 13 months as a forced laborer in Auschwitz, at which most of his family perished.
Mr. Berenbaum said, "Even if I personally believe the Americans should have bombed Auschwitz, I must say there is no clear-cut answer."
Mr. Wolz said he was prompted to act by the recent settlements reached by Jewish groups with Swiss banks and German companies. "I was angered that they could buy their way out for peanuts," he said.
ââ¬â MARC PERELMAN
I will have to rest and contemplate on a suitable reply. While doing so, I encourage others to post.
2002-06-20 10:12 | User Profile
Edward,
I too shared your consternation when I first heard of this idiocy. This story goes way back. Like the Loch Ness monster it is rarely seen, but claimed. Back in the middle 80s there was a made for T.V. movie called *The Winds of War,* based on Herman Wouks book by the same name. As part of a "public service" ABC would show before each episode a classroom discussion with an "educator" who would talk to the students about this movie. Ostensibly the segment was to teach students about WW II. In reality it was mainly about the "holocaust" propaganda with the effort to instill guilt in the not guilty. The person who conducted these sessions knew what he was doing because at the end of the last session a girl stood up and wanted to know why the Allies didnt bomb the railroads leading into Aushwitz. The rest of the students voice their outrage about this too. The "educator" had achieved his objective. I bring up this story here because I happen to think that things like this dont spontaneously occur. To me this was nothing more than an attempt to condition people to respond in a pavlovian manner. In short, this was planned to happen this way.
Since I saw this on T.V. I have read several articles about the effort to bring forth this lawsuit. The last one was in 2001.
Holocaust scholars here were largely dismissive of the suit. "This is silly and ridiculous," said Michael Berenbaum, co-editor of "The Bombing of Auschwitz," a comprehensive historical study published last summer. "How can you litigate on the conduct of the war? And why don't they sue the German government for creating Auschwitz in the first place?"
"How can you litigate on the conduct of the war?"
Indeed, but I have full confidence that the tribe will find a way. You never have allowd a minor detail like this to stop you.
*In the past few years, Jewish survivors have filed numerous lawsuits against Swiss banks, German companies and other European entities and governments, leading to several multi-billion-dollar settlements. Recently, however, the focus has been shifting toward America's role in the Nazi atrocities and their aftermath. A lawsuit, since dropped, was filed against IBM alleging that its German subsidiary colluded with the Nazi regime.*
In view of what Corporate America has done to this country through its business practices and foundations I hope they continue to go after them. They deserve one another.
*The Auschwitz bombing suit, despite its remote chances of success, is creating a sense of unease among Jewish organizations. The $40 billion sought in compensation is also raising eyebrows. The Swiss banks, for example, settled for $1.25 billion and German industry and government for $5.2 billion.*
Yes, I bet their eyes lite up in greed over the idea of stealing money from the taxpayers.
**"It gives the Holocaust movement a bad name," said Marc Stern, legal affairs director of the American Jewish Congress. "It is going to be seen as 'The Jews are really out there to get all the money they can from the Holocaust.'"
Elan Steinberg, the executive director of the World Jewish Congress, which has been at the forefront of Holocaust restitution campaign, said, "We absolutely don't support it."**
Not all members of the tribe are idiots. These guys recognize that such blatant arrogance can only cause history to repeat itself in regard to Gentile- Jew relations for the worse. Overreaching is something the tribe has a habit of doing.
There are a few Americans and I hope more in the future that see this as for what it is- a typical kosher scam.
**The central claim of the suit draws its impetus from an executive order signed by President Franklin Delano Roosevelt on January 22, 1944, calling on the government to take all measures to rescue the European Jews.
"Why did the executive order not go through?" Mr. Wolz asked. He claims the order was ignored because of the influence of a group of America's biggest companies, which continued to do business with Nazi Germany during the war. He asserts that the U.S. Air Force, which controlled the European skies in 1944, could easily have bombed the railways and the bridges bringing the Hungarian Jews to Auschwitz between May and July 1944. But the camp and its supply lines were taken off the final list of target proposals and never were bombed. **
(Edward, I know you know the following This is for the benefit of those who don`t know much about this.)
Sound Military reasons of why this order wasn`t carried out in the idiotic way these people claim to have wanted it to.
This is funny for the ludicrousness and chutzpah that it shows. It`s true that by Spring of 1944 the Western Allies could fly anywhere they wanted to with little resistance from the Luftwaffe. Nonetheless, there are several things wrong here.
Upper Silesia where Aushwitz was located would have taxed the fighter escort in an unacceptable way. They would have had to kept their drop tanks on for most of the flight, putting them at a disadvantage with the Luftwaffe. That deep into Germany would have allow the Germans to fly without encountering the disadvantages of operating in Western Europe would have entailed. In addition to this they would not have been able to engage the Germans for any amount of time because they wouldn`t have had the fuel to have done so.
Railroads, unless hit on a constant basis, are easy to repair. The Germans were masters at keeping their R.R.s operational. Even in Western Europe where the Allies had a decided advantage the Germans were able to keep the railroads of Germany working until March, 1945 when they finally collapsed.
Finally there is this to consider. The Spring of `44 was a busy time for the Allies with the Normandy Invasion coming up. To have diverted Strategic Airpower to bomb the railroads leading to Aushwitz would have been the height of folly. One aspect of the invasion of France called for (1) bombing German synthetic oil refineries in the first half to cut back on the German mobility and to keep the Luftwaffe from interferring in a meaningful way, and (2) isolating the areas behind Pas de Calais and Normandy with strategic bombing attacks on the bridges, railroad marshalling yards and canals in the second half. This came at the expense of the strategic bombing campaign of German Industries because of the importance the allied commanders placed on accomplishing the above.
The Germans would have welcomed such a diversion of allied resources for it probably would have resulted in a German victory on the beaches of Normandy.
Mr. Berenbaum said, "Even if I personally believe the Americans should have bombed Auschwitz, I must say there is no clear-cut answer."
BRAVO SIERRA!! :angry:
Mr. Wolz said he was prompted to act by the recent settlements reached by Jewish groups with Swiss banks and German companies. "I was angered that they could buy their way out for peanuts," he said.
What he was really mad about I bet was that he wasn`t able to get in on this scam from the beginning.
Quote from Edward Gibbon:
*I will have to rest and contemplate on a suitable reply. While doing so, I encourage others to post.*
Edward, I know. Stupid and insulting, isnt it? Thinking about lunacy like this is enough to give a sane person one hell of a migraine headache. For me, I have gotten to the point to where when I read or hear about things like this I laugh and hope they keep pushing this stuff. The more, the better. I believe the plantiffs that are pushing this are hoping that the tribe has succeeded in making Marxs statement a reality with any potential jurors if it gets that far. "People separated from their past are easily persuaded."
I`d love to be a juror on this one! :lol: -S
2002-06-20 10:49 | User Profile
"It gives the Holocaust movement a bad name," said Marc Stern, legal affairs director of the American Jewish Congress. "It is going to be seen as 'The Jews are really out there to get all the money they can from the Holocaust.'"
'Seen as'?
**Mr. Wolz said he was prompted to act by the recent settlements reached by Jewish groups with Swiss banks and German companies. "I was angered that they could buy their way out for peanuts," he said. **
And I'm angered that this is what constitutes 'goods and services' in any gentile transaction with Jews. The negotiation begins with Hymie, camera crew in tow, theatrically moaning, "You owe me BILLIONS for my agonizing suffering." No matter how far you Jew him down on the final amount, it's only after he's out the door that you realize you just paid somebody for nothing at all.
I continue to be astounded at the magically multiplying number of 'survivors', the West's last true growth industry. 57 years after the end of WW2, you 'd figure 95% of the principal players would be having this argument in the Afterlife. It's the new Ed Wood math: "My friends, can you prove it didn't happen?"
In the 60s, litigious Jews hit the motherlode by making the concept of 'whiplash injury' a fecund cash cow, storming the half-asleep, unprepared goyishe insurance industry with crippling-disability claims that usually didn't exist. But it took a Bronfman to mine REAL gold from the principle. "Holocaust lawsuits" are whiplash cases writ large - and LOOKIT all them extra zeroes on the checks! Oi vey ist mir! Me a holocaust survivor too! (Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to learn the Bronfman people are holding casting calls in Jewish elderly-homes for fresh 'survivors' to trundle out in the next case, and the next, and the next....)
**I laugh and hope they keep pushing this stuff. The more, the better. **
Amen. Sooner or later, everybody has to learn not to play with matches - even God's Chosen People.
2002-06-20 20:42 | User Profile
Originally posted by il ragno@Jun 20 2002, 10:49 > > **Mr. Wolz said he was prompted to act by the recent settlements reached by Jewish groups with Swiss banks and German companies. "I was angered that they could buy their way out for peanuts," he said. **
And I'm angered that this is what constitutes 'goods and services' in any gentile transaction with Jews. The negotiation begins with Hymie, camera crew in tow, theatrically moaning, "You owe me BILLIONS for my agonizing suffering." No matter how far you Jew him down on the final amount, it's only after he's out the door that you realize you just paid somebody for nothing at all.** **
While I obviously wouldn't have worded it like this, I agree with the sentiment. This whole reparations thing is a deplorable shakedown, and it should end. Not only that, but the money should be remitted from the organizations that launched these pernicious suits.
If anyone's looking for a good overview, Norman Finkelstein's The Holocaust Industry provides an excellent summary of everything that's wrong with "Holocaust Remembrance."
Also, William D. Rubenstein's The Myth of Rescue disposes of the charge that the Allies could have done anything with respect to Auschwitz. He also debunks the "Paper Walls" myths as well.
Best, P
2002-06-20 21:30 | User Profile
Well, granted, my phrasing was unfair & offensive. But not nearly as unfair & offensive as this ongoing shakedown, which has inspired and given spurious moral weight to every black bunco artist working the same territory....no matter how many lecture fees David Horowitz earns denying it.
2002-06-20 21:45 | User Profile
Originally posted by il ragno@Jun 20 2002, 21:30 Well, granted, my phrasing was unfair & offensive. But not nearly as unfair & offensive as this ongoing shakedown, which has inspired and given spurious moral weight to every black bunco artist working the same territory....no matter how many lecture fees David Horowitz earns denying it.
I can't stand Horowitz either. He was debating Malveaux on the issue and she, correctly, pointed out that slavery reparations work on the same assumptions that Holocaust reparations work on. He dummied up. Later on, he came up with the explanation you're talking about.
Best, P
2002-07-29 02:23 | User Profile
Well, our royal government hasn't been suing tobacco companies for nothing have they? Education? Everyone knows that the public and parochial school systems are going down the crapper. We have our Israeli government to thank for this. However, the more they force on kids--the more the rebel. Kids are getting wise to all these political shanaigans. Were the pendulum to actually start swinging the other way--it's over for Israel, reparation, and affirmative action. A Pat Buchanon messiah will come along and topple everything--hopefully. But time is running out. When nonjewish whites no longer constitute the majority of the USA population--it will be all over. We are very close to that moment now--thanks to the white hypocrites in DC.
2003-02-03 03:23 | User Profile
Mr. Berenbaum said, "Even if I personally believe the Americans should have bombed Auschwitz, I must say there is no clear-cut answer." Well, if we'd BOMBED the camp, there wouldn't be as many "survivors," right? Cut down on the gelt paid by the Germans.... It would have cleared up one problem, while creating even BIGGER lawsuits: "the Americans bombed the camp and killed my relatives... all 16 of them, er, all 32 of them... actually.. I came from a really BIG family! The Americans bombed all 214 of my immediate family members, and I want to be restituted!!!") ;) <_<
2003-02-04 18:46 | User Profile
There's one group which really hasn't been confronted about its role in the Holocaust. This group was instrumental in persuading the Jews to cooperate, in organizing their transportation to the camps, and even in working the death machinery itself. This group is, of course...the Jews! The Jewish leadership worked with the Nazis to facilitate the registry, and the move to the Ghettoes - to resist would "make things worse." Jewish Capos were central to the orderly running of the camps. And they helped convince their co-religionists that the "showers" were no more than showers. It makes me wonder just what some of the survivors did to survive. And it certainly contributes to my annoyance when I hear how the Swiss/Americans/Gentiles-at-large didn't do enough to stop the Holocaust.
2003-02-04 23:57 | User Profile
And they helped convince their co-religionists that the "showers" were no more than showers
You're not really a congregant of the church of Holocaustianity are you? There's more credible evidence that some Dude on a Stick turned water to wine, walked on water and for a grand finale came back from the dead than there is that six million parasites received Aryan justice 60 years ago.
2003-02-21 18:49 | User Profile
Touchey-Feeley... ... Touchey-Feeley...
That's ALL it is... I'm being very candid, here... it's the ability to sink down into the feeling part of the brain...with intelligence Intact as well... those who do BOTH are 'where it's at'... then they get 'ahead'... others notice & ATTEMPT to mimick... though, yet, they're not THERE...
That's when they (well some) opt for the FORCE option... in common parlance, on the mundane level, we call that criminal, or the criminals... hitting the little lady over the head for a purse-?-
Just like they opt for it too, the force option, if it's patently a political obstacle... they Wish to surmount... on that level that's why there's the U.N. ... and for example if the U.S. doesn't respect that, they're/we're? as guilty as anyone who, like the nazis opted to just clobber people over the head... since the others in Fact got beyond, temporarily in the reality of life...
Let's not PROVE today, we're no better than the nazis?
As for the p.r. after WWII ... to the victor belong the spoils, and part of the spoils inevitably are the "stories"... EXAGGERATED, no doubt... I agree... to SOME extent, hot and cold running greenbacks... Hey I may even take my bath this Saturday, if that were the case... (all in favor?)
Deal with them Gore... Al? or Vidal? ... I kid let's all get real which means decent... that's one of the real important parts of it... always has been except usually folks aren't strong enough for BOTH... top down, not just 'the people' to blame... :lol:
2003-02-23 23:24 | User Profile
Originally posted by Hereward@Feb 4 2003, 12:46 Jewish Capos were central to the orderly running of the camps. And they helped convince their co-religionists that the "showers" were no more than showers. **
Maybe because they were only showers?
My understanding is that there are no, and have never been, any extant examples of homicidal gas chambers in 3 dimensions, in drawings or plans, or written about in documents. I think holocaust by gas chambers is hooey, invented by allied propaganda and distributed by leaflets over the camps, where the inmates naturally took up the rumors.
This is not to say that the concentration camps were not death camps, since all concentration camps -- given the prevalence of typhus et al., were de facto death camps, the first modern example being the Boer War death camps administered by the Brits.
2003-05-20 19:23 | User Profile
These are people so stupid that they allowed themselves to be herded up like cattle and killed like cattle. And they want to sue others for not fighting for them when they didn't even try to do anything for themselves? This is the pinnacle of stupidity... to Hell with them all.
2003-05-20 20:54 | User Profile
Contrary to what freepers might believe, I can see Bush caving in on reparations. If the movement gains more momentum, and the Dems support the idea, he won't have much choice, if he wants the GOP to get the Negro vote. I can just imagine the speech...
"Slavery was the most horrible injustice in human history--next to the Holocaust, of course--and the United States has a moral obligation to correct that injustice. Therefore, it is with great honor that I sign the Minority Community Redevelopment Bill. This bill will provide over $1 trillion dollars to various minority education, housing, and other programs. It is just the first of many measures to rectify the past injustices done to African-Americans...and Latinos (always have to tag them on, eh Jorge? gotta get them votes!). I am also proposing a bill that will convert the Smithsonian Institution into the National Museum of Slavery. It will serve as a fitting memorial to all those brave African-American men, women, and children who suffered, and in some cases died, under the brutal crime that was slavery. Good night and God Bless America."
2003-05-21 03:58 | User Profile
You know, I have a REAL problem with reparations -- the calculations are just TOO confusing in my family...
My older sister is married to a black man born in California to Jamaican parents (legally here :D at the time). Now, he is a descendant of Marcus Garvey, the 'let's all go back to Africa guy,' so he has a BIG chip on his shoulder about the horrors his ancestors went through on slave ships and all (he hasn't yet admitted that the focus of his anger should be JAMAICA not the U.S., but Jamaica has no money for reparations...)
But MY family (and I've apologized, on behalf of MY ancestors, to my Southern husband for it) provided soldiers to the Civil War to free those darkies, so WE need to sue for loss of life and support for their deaths...
So, my bro-in-law should or should NOT get U.S. reparations cause his ancestors were Jamaican slaves; and since his ancestors were NOT American slaves but he IS an American, HE should or should not be taxed to pay reparations. Then my sister should or should not have to pay reparations because she is a white American, but she has married a black American who does or does not get reparations or pay reparations or... well... I'm confused and I have a head ache! :sleep:
But I 100% support reparations WITH irrevocable repatriation!!
2003-05-21 04:32 | User Profile
You know, I have a REAL problem with reparations -- the calculations are just TOO confusing in my family...
Well, I believe, like I wrote in my previous post, that if the govt does decide to go ahead with reparations, they probably won't be sending out checks to indivduals. They will probably create some kind of huge government program(s) with some fancy name (like the War On Poverty), aimed at African-Americans (of course the Latinos might bitch, so they might have to include them too).
But I 100% support reparations WITH irrevocable repatriation!!
I 0% support reparations, but I 100% support the "irrevocable repatriation" part. :lol:
2003-05-21 04:36 | User Profile
It confuses me too, but long before any reparations are paid the money system is probably going to go ker-plop.
The last time -- absolute last time -- reparations could have worked was when Abe Lincoln wanted to requistion every ship in the US Navy and the merchant fleet and ship all the freed slaves back to chosen locations back in the Motherland. For reasons beyond Lincoln's control, the reparation/repatriation was not carried out.
Oh, for what could have been. :(